270 win

[270 win]

What have you guys dropped with a 270 win. I have heard stories from my buddies dropping elk with it but Im not convinced that it will because I have shot one before and I think it was a little to light. Well Im not sure 270 win. or the 7mm rem mag. or if you guys can think of any other rifle that will put down an elk/moose.

[lilsundance]

personal opinion here only but go with a 30-06.

[YamahaMan72]

i shoot 7MAG got my elk this year i luv my gun they are a great gun

[wallhangers]

My father started me off on a 270 which is what he shot and I continued the tradition by doing the same for my sons. It is of course a matter of preference and as many will say bullet placement bullet placement bullet placement. Wouldn't trade up or down as confidence with your gun is important. I have been shooting the same gun for 40 years and have only had one animal get up and walk (run) away.

[RockyMountainMusic]

just my personal opinion, you cant go wrong with a .270, a lot of people like the .30 cals and of course they do the trick. Me well i have a .270 from an uncle i have shot everything in alberta except antelope, sheep, goat and grizz and i would go after any with confidence with my .270. I shot a moose 5 years ago with a 140gr failsafe, he was trotting away (180yrds)and i put it a touch to far foward and hit him directly in the front shoulder and it went through both shoulders and made a mess out of it. i wont use them bullets anymore unless i was going after grizz. I also shot a buffalo a couple years ago a shot him between the eyes at 150yrds and it killed him stone dead and they have a pretty thick skull. i have shot about a dozen moose and 4 or 5 elk with it. It's a personal choice but it will do the trick if used proper.

[270 win]

What have you guys dropped with a 270 win.Moose, bear,and deer and the "odd" yote.:D

[Dick284]

Interesting that you bring up the 270 "t".
This caliber is what I usually recommend to the novice.
It is capable of cleanly taking most comonly hunted N. American game, while being a touch easier on the NooB's shoulder.
Ammo's also as easy to find as any of the other popular calibers.
I have one buddy who has harvested everything from moose, elk, caribou, mule deer, wt deer, and antelope with his 270Win., Ruger #1 using home loaded 130gr. Partitions.
Also knew a family (Son, Dad, Uncle) who all ran Pre 64 Mod. 70's, in 270Win, with the "Jack O'connor load" and 130gr Partitions. collectively, they had harvested something like, 3 grizzly bear, dozens of elk, dozens of moose, hundreds of deer, sheep, goats, and a healthy measure of antelope.

If you take a look at the shelves of the local in the middle of nowhere hardware store, and note what calibers that are on the shelf, you begin to see a pattern develope. What's there for ammo is there because it's popular, and it's only popular because it works .

[Reynolds]

The latest copy of Alberta Outdoorsmen has a good article on the 270.

Bottom line from the Gunsmith - the 270 is best suited to be a deer and varmit gun. The 270s once popularity is based on marketing and not the guns capability. The 270 is just a necked down 3006 case so why not have a 3006 with more capability with more grain selection. The 270 is very limited on bullet grains. The 270 is losing popularity.

Having once owned a 270, I personally agree.

I'm sure people owning the 270 have claims to great success but this article is the opinion of an experienced gunsmith.

[Duffy4]

I have never owned or hunted with a rifle in .270 win. I have never even shot a .270. Yet looking at its numbers and the experience others have had with it, I'd recomend it. I have used a .264 win. mag. that is not too different from a .270 numbers wise and had good success with it.

"The Gunsmith" puts on his socks one at a time just like the rest of us. He is entitled to his opinion on the .270 but there are lots of other viewpoints. (I took a bit of salt with his bit on the .270)

Robin in Rocky

[jrs]

270 is a fine caliber. Shoots flat and delivers effective energy. There is still lots of choice with factory bullets and reloaders ave even more options. I've shot several deer with mine (both regular 270 and 270WSM) and my hunting partners have shot many moose and black bears with theres, as well as deer and elk. It has some advantages over the 30-06, especially if your hunting flat open terrain. If your hunting thick timber i'd go with a 30-06, or even old 303, doesn't really matter if your shooting under 200 yrds all the time. I still choose 270 for most hunting, when i get a moose tag i'll probably carry my 30-06 for some more energy (or some specialized reloads for my short mag, would choose at the time). They all do the job.

[Mike W]

I have shot an elk with my .270 140 grain bullet and after we loaded it up I thought now why the hell did I not bring my 300 Win Mag.

By all means a proper placed .270 will knock down every thing from moose to yotes, However as mentioned a 30-06 is a great "all around gun" but if you are a lager enough man a 300 is a great gun for moose and elk as well as deer.....a 300 can make a big mess of a deer if you shoot the shoulder but right behind the shoulder and nothing wasted.

I am really happy with my gun setup being 270 for deer and 300 for elk and moose.

If you are only planning on hunting with one gun I would suggest a 30-06 with 165 grain bullets or a 300 in the same grain, a 280 rem is a nice all around gun also.

Don’t get a gun you might be scared of!! If you have a friend with a Mag ask him to come to the range with you so you can try it out, as a Mag is the best bet for Elk and Moose although not the best all around gun.

Cheers
Mike

[walleyes]

With out a doubt one of the best all round cartridges out there. Other than grizzly it is more than enough gun to take down any north American animal. And I have seen them take down a couple of those as well. I packed a 270 for 23 years and took numerous and I mean numerous moose at ranges from 75 - 400 yards with that little 270, Remington model 760, Bdl. Shot many many Whitetail and black bear as well.
I hunted with a cousin of mine for years, we were inseparable when it came to hunting. And he packed a 30-06 and let me tell you that a 270 will take any animal a 30-06 will. This is not coming from the tables and charts like so many people like to live by this is coming from extensive experience using these rifles.
My sons all start out using that old 270 until they kill there first Moose with it (Whitetail don't count). Then I by them there own rifle.
It is about learning to place you're shots, and knowing that you have to place it rite in order to take you're animal quickly.

My father was a big game guide for years and growing up my older brother and I would take turns leaving school and helping out our dad in camp. And I have seen allot of so called big hunters packing big guns and I seen allot of poor kills coming from those big guns. I had to finish off more than one poor shot with that little 270.
I now pack a 300 Ultra, not because I ever got disappointed with the 270 but I just wanted some bragging rites on who has the biggest gun around our camp fire. My wife bought me the 100 anniversary special addition Remington 30-06 for Christmas and I am looking forward to using this gun as well. Probably as a deer gun. But I will always keep that old 270 because I know it will kill what I aim it at. I can say with confidence and experience anybody that has had an animal walk away from a 270 never shot it rite in the first place and don't blame the gun blame the shooter.

[jrs]

The one thing i've noticed about the big 30 calibers (300's 338 etc) is many guys who shoot them live in fear. I know many hunters who saw them and felt to show how manly they are they must shoot the biggest rifle possible. When were at the range, i watch them shoot and these big 300lb 6'3 guys flinch. I know the one guy misses about half the shots he takes with his 300 magnum, mostly because it kicks him hard every time. Then his little brother will make the shot with his 25-06 after the animals far away and running. He takes his time and makes it count. That guy still swears by the gun and i'm not convinced he's ever hit anything with it. Just something to think about.

[Dick284]

Dick284, I just bought my daughter a new gun, Tikka T3 in .270Win caliber. She had been shooting a 6mm but we decided she needed a larger caliber for moose. I noticed you mentioned loads when referring to the .270. What would you recommend? BL

[Reloads]

"What would you recommend? BL " i would say buy a reloading book of your own (WHY) What may work in one gun may not in another .

[Have access already]

CJ, I have 2 friends who reload for me. Not sure at this point if either one has the .270 die, pretty sure one does, but he is in the States for the next 2 months. He has been reloading for 30+ years so I thought I would get another opinion and compare with my buddies. I know what you mean about loads being better in one gun or vice versa. My daughter has trouble with 100 grain bullets from her 6mm, whereas, 107 shoots well for her. Thanks for your reply. Do you have an opinion on a .270 load? BL

[Dick284]

BL:
I echo CJ's advice on getting a manual. But I am also not above letting you in on a few book recipies.
The O'Connor load consist of a really full case of H4831, and a 130gr. bullet, his load is now over book spec because the 4831 he ran in the late 40's is not the same burn rate as we get today. but from my manuals I'll recommend loads between 56gr. and 60gr.(130gr.)
Also the 4350 powders either H or IMR are good choices, think of starting around 52grs. and going to no more than 55gr.(130gr.)
Also dont rule out the 140gr. bullets they are a great pill if you feel you need(you really dont) more bullet weight.
Same powders but back the loads off about 2 to 3 grs.
The nice thing nowadays is not the need for more bullet weight. Just move to a tougher constructed bullet as your quarry gets larger. A do it all pill is the Nosler Partition, other tough notables in no particular order are the Hornady Interbond's. Nosler Accubond's, Speer Grand Slam, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Swift A-Frame. And the toughest of the lot most likely being the Barnes TSX, although the A-Frame is a tough cookie too. I am not a great fan of the non bonded polymer tipped bullets(Ballistic tip, SST) they are great for long range work but give some erratic results on close impacts.
And you wont have a tough time turning away deer sized game if all you have up the pipe are plain old Hornady Interlock's either BTSP's or SP's, these are my go to bullets for most deer sized game.
Simple rule of thumb is take a 130gr. pill drive it at at least 3000fps, and set your sights for 2.5" high at 100yds, and you wont have to hold any higher than his back to about 375yds. and at that distance you have enough energy to theroretically take a moose to that range(1400ftlbs.)
That's more than enough for 90% of what ever any of us ever encounter out in the field.
And since something like 80% of all game is taken at 200yds or less what else does a guy need.
(Some wise arse is gonna chime in just wait)::p :lol
And BTW: Most of the guys out there dont practice enough to shoot much past 200yds ethically anyways. (just the facts BTW)

[Thanks]

Dick284, thanks very much for your time and effort in looking that info up for me (and my daughter). She is very eager to get out and try her new gun. I'm probably more excited than she is. Next year my son gets a new gun. Thanks again. BL

[I still think 270 is a little light for dedicated elk gun]

www.rifleshootermag.com/f..._deer_elk/ (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/combo_deer_elk/)

I didn't read this article but it may have some good info on elk rifles

[cmfic1]

Alot of people get all worked up about the "Lightness" of a .270. Although not a .270, but using this for comparison, there is a very well known and successful long time AK Outfitter, named Phil Shoemaker who for years used a 30/06 for a backup/followup rifle for Alaskan Brown Bear. He swore by it & still does.

I have said it before, but there is nothing in Alberta I wouldnt Hunt/Shoot with a 7mm/08, and the .270 Win. ballistically is very, very similar.

I once guided an older fellow in the Yukon. He was up on a Mixed bag hunt. Shooting a .270 Win. with 150 gr. Nosler Partitions, he was successful in taking a Mnt. Grizzly, AK/YK Moose & a nice Caribou Bull. I watched him closely at the range, he shot really well & after he Heart shot his Griz (at 110 yards or so, the Bear ran under 150 yards), I had total confidence in his shooting and his choice of Chambering.

[270]

If you like to tinker with guns and can't afford to buy a bunch of them get a 300 Win Mag. It has the widest array of bullets available to play with and much more case capacity to dump powder into. If you just want to shoot stuff get a gun with some bullets and go shoot stuff.

I have seen gophers, grouse, rabbits, fox, coyote, wolf, antelope, mule deer, whitetail deer, sheep, elk, moose, black bear all taken effectively with the 270. As far as the bullet selection goes, what's the point. I have taken gophers, grouse, rabbits, fox, coyote, mule deer, whitetail deer, and moose with the same rifle with the same bullet - 150 gr. Sierra Boat Tail at 3000 fps. If and when I get a chance at wolf, antelope, sheep, elk, black bear and caribou they will die from the same pill.

[Dick284]

You know abhunter:
If you actually read his first post you'd have noticed the rifle is for his daughter. Your love affair for the 300Win.Mag. is not without foundation for many shooters, but as a recommendation to a begining female, it borders on irresponsable.

[slipbobber]

How did that grouse taste after you shot it with your 300 Win mag?

[bigbore]

you know Dick:

abhunter could have clicked on the "reply" button right under the inital post of this entire thread by the user " t " which was ...

What have you guys dropped with a 270 win. I have heard stories from my buddies dropping elk with it but Im not convinced that it will because I have shot one before and I think it was a little to light. Well Im not sure 270 win. or the 7mm rem mag. or if you guys can think of any other rifle that will put down an elk/moose.



....which in case did not mention a daughter and would have brought his reply as next in line.

just an observation.



BTW...jack brittinghams daughter who cant be more than 10 years old hunts buffalo with a .300 win mag, depending on how old the video is that i own where she hunted buffs. just another observation

[Re: 270]

You know DICK, if you had any reading comprehension skills you would not have posted any of that. If you felt like contributing anything other than being an ***** you wouldn't have posted it.

I don't own or like the 300 - it is the ultimate "tweener" gun. Just stated a fact that if you want to tinker (as many '06 proponents like to point out they can) then you can get the most tinker from one calibre with the 300 Win. Mag.

The rest of my post evidenced that I believe the 270 to be an excellent "shooters" calibre.

As bigbore pointed out, there is no daughter in this thread.

[bigbore]

there was

by BL


Dick284, I just bought my daughter a new gun, Tikka T3 in .270Win caliber. She had been shooting a 6mm but we decided she needed a larger caliber for moose. I noticed you mentioned loads when referring to the .270. What would you recommend? BL


i just thought you might have been replying to the intial post of this thread.


anyways...............

[nube]

I get a little tired of posts like this. Is this gun good for this is that gun good for that. The fact is, it is all about bullet placement. I have shot a few elk with a 270 starting out when I was 14 and on up. I know a friend who shot his grzzly bear in the NWT with it. The same could be and has been done with a 243 I am sure. Although a 270 might not be the best for big game like this it will still work just fine if you can hit the right spot.8o 8o 8o

[WHAT ABOUT]

Its funny that no one talks about the trusty 303 cal. any more dose anyone ever use one ????? sorry to get off track a little.

[jrs]

I mentioned it (the 303). If your hunting thick brush (most of northern Alberta thats all you need).

[Re: WHAT ABOUT]

Bigbore, is BL t? Perhaps Dick knows something we don't. I posted germane to the thread - what have you taken with the 270.

The 303 is an excellent cartridge for North American big game. No one chambers for it so you don't see it much anymore. The old military rifles are slowly disappearing.

[Re: WHAT ABOUT]

Hey slipbobber, headless grouse taste the same regardless of what you shoot their heads with.

[Hummm]

It seems to me that there is always new people comeing to the board and maybe some dont know a hole lot and if it is lame to you and others please dont reply its tha easy."not"

[Okotokian]

NUBE and WALLEYES, DO NOT READ THIS POST! I DON'T WANT TO **** YOU OFF! JUST MOVE ON! :b

Ok, now that is out of the way I have a question that is 270 related but NOT a 27th answer to the fellow asking about his daughter (sorry, but I'm too dumb to offer any useful advice on that one). I'm a shotgunner buying first centerfire gun... it's going to be my ONLY gun, and I doubt I will ever hunt outside of Alberta so moose and elk will be the biggest game, though I expect to hunt more for deer and antelope (the tag god permitting). maybe try to get me one of those grouse someone else mentioned LOL. I've shot a 270 and 30-06. At 6'3" and 230 lbs I could handle the 30-06 recoil, but why? I found it a touch harsh and harder to get off a follow up shot then the 270. Trying to decide between 270 and 280 Rem. I know 270 is much more available in terms of models and ammo, but I have the completely uninformed idea that maybe the 280 provides a bit more OOMPH for elk and moose. Am I just ignorant or is there really any identifiable difference between the two in real life? If there isn't I'll go 270.

Don't worry about recommending other cartridges. I don't want any more recoil than these calibers provide, so no magnum or WSM suggestions are necessary. Thanks! :D

oh, one more thing... I posted a similar question on a couple of other boards (don't ask LOL). If I mistakenly already posted it here, PLEASE forgive me. I'm old and my memory is going... :p

[walleyes]

Very well put nube.... The same old questions get a little lame. They almost always get off topic and seem to lead to a scuffle. We seem to start at a 270 and end up with 10 differant caliberes of choice and not answering the original quetion.

[Dick284, sorry I got you into this!!]

abhunter, I am not t. I am BL I asure you of that. Dick284, looks like you were correct about responses after the fact. Sorry about that. BL

[nube]

Okatokian, by the sounds of it you don't shoot long distances. If that is the case then choose the one that shoots the heaviest bullet. I would think the 270 would be your best option especially if you reload.
Now as about the topic of killing larger game with it--- I still think and believe what I said earlier. I am sorry to sound like such a **** ant about it but that is just how I see it. For anyone with any experience they would look at it the same way. Larger is always better for killing but It can be done with the small as well. I have a friend who shoots everything with a 120gr barnes bullet. For some they would think this is light especially for game out to 600+ yards which I have seen many times. It has killed a lot of bigger game and it all depends on where you hit them.
It you are looking for a gun for a small child then there is nothing wrong with the 270 and a 150gr bullet for elk or moose. Just make sure they can shoot it accurately and the gun fits them. I hunted for my first 5-8 years at age 14 with my mountain lightweight 270 and 130 gr bullets. I killed a lot of stuff with it including elk and moose at a young age

[walleyes]

(NUBE and WALLEYES, DO NOT READ THIS POST! I DON'T WANT TO **** YOU OFF! JUST MOVE ON!)
(They almost always get off topic and seem to lead to a scuffle)

See what I mean :\ :\

[nube]

It's just a topic with a lot of different views I guess.

[rugatika]

I have a question regarding the 270 vs 30/06. Assuming equal rifle weights etc, since the 270 is a necked down 30/06 case would not both cartridges generate an equivalent amount of recoil IF they were shooting equivalent weight bullets? I understand that stepping up to a 180 grain bullet in 30/06 would generate more recoil, but if both 270 and 30/06 were shooting 150 grain bullets wouldn't they both be generating the same recoil??

I know that 125 grainers from my 30/06 T3 have very little recoil, while the 165's have noticeable recoil and the 165 light magnums are even more "noticeable". I've never shot a 270 so ...no comment.

By the way, "The Gunsmith" (Ron or Rod Henrickson I think) is an excellent writer and I like all his articles I have read. I vaguely remember his 270 article recently and can't remember all the points he made.

[Dick284]

abhunter:
I got a tad mixed up as to who you were repling too.
I thought your reply was to BL. And sorry for the mix up.
But I guess if I'm man enough to fess up to an honest mistake, perhaps you care to apoligize for your lack of tolerance.

[Scott N]

I have seen a lot of animals shot with a 270 and as many other guys have said, it's up for the task, even on elk and moose. Recently we've been using the 130 gr. Barnes TSX.... these seem to be really effective bullets.

[harv3589]

I just sold my 7mm mag and now shoot the 270 WSM for everything...it is plenty of gun and will take anything North America has to offer including grizzly...last I knew grizzlies weren't wearing kevlar vests.

The 270 is a great calibre and there is no need to go bigger, its just a want or a compensation for being a bad shot.

[nube]

Grizz are overrated. It is like shooting a big black bear.

[cmfic1]

its just a want or a compensation for being a bad shot.

Harv, thats a pretty bold statement. Alot of people actually Hunt a little more than the, on average "1 Moose/Elk Hunt" every 3 years or so.

I said earlier I would not hesitete to use a 7mm/08 on anything Alberta has to offer, while being true, it isnt necessarily what I would want.

Picture this, you have either invested a ton of money in a Guided Hunt, or a ton of years on a Special Draw. You Hunt hard, and things arent going well. You are on the last Evening of the last Day. You spot your Moose/Elk/Grizzly etc. feeding at 300 yards. You are confident in your shooting abilities out to that range, BUT, the animal is quartering away at an extreme angle. The shot has to go in the behind the last rib, and angle up through 36" of animal to reach the Pump room.....Now would you "Rather" have a .270, or maybe something a little better/bigger, to further ensure your Hunt is successful in getting your trophy.

See, so its not always a "Want" or "An excuse to being a poor shot"

And to answer the original question again, Yes I would feel confident in using a .270 for Big game hunting in Alberta. But not necessarily my first choice, for all the Hunting I do.

[Mike W]

Rugatika,

In regards to the recoil question.
With a 270 and a 30-06 shooting a 150 grain bullet I still believe that there would be slightly larger recoil with the 30-06. The reason I would come to this conclusion is due to not the weight of the bullet but the "drag" or "force of friction" caused by a larger diameter lead.

Although the same weight the 270 is a smaller diameter but a longer lead, well the 30-06 is a fatter shorter lead.

There are several factors to consider when talking about recoil...One being weight of the firearm can reduce or increase recoil "felt" directly, for example the Tikka T3 Light is a great gun to hold on target and carry around all day but the recoil felt when shot is amplified over a traditional Ruger wood stock.....(noticed how I used both guns in your name!!!...ha-ha) Powder and lead used in the bullet as well as primer and brass, not only affect ballistics but recoil also.

Now if we were talking knock down power I too would be lead to believe that the 30-06 would also have more punch however due to several factors it would be hard to determine where the velocity of the 270 would take over from the diameter of the 30-06. (The difference would be ever so slight and could be the difference from a ballistic tip to a soft point out of the same gun).



Now for some of the other questions about 30-06 vs. 270 I would say that in exception to grain selection the only true difference between the 30-06 and 270 would be the 30 odds "bush" capabilities.
The 30-06 would be a wiser? Choice over a 270 if you are planning on hunting cut lines or bush where a leave or small twig might get in the way of your shot. Now I’m not saying the 30-06 is a bulldozer but is less prone to a ricochet.

Hopefully I was of some help.
Whatever you buy get out shoot it and enjoy it. There are many great guns on the market and I’m sure you will be happy with whichever you choose as getting use to and comfortable with your firearm is more important than the differences between a 270 and 30-06.

Cheers
Mike

[rugatika]

Good points Mike and everyone else too. This is one of those topics that will forever be hashed around the "campfire" and I always like hearing everyone's opinion on it.

[cmfic1]

I’m not saying the 30-06 is a bulldozer but is less prone to a ricochet.

This rationale is old School thinking! Bullets, no matter which cal. or size will riccochet the same (2700 fps. is 2700 fps.). It has been proven time & time again, by Bullet/Gun Scribes, and documented in several articles.

As far as recoil goes, I would strongly suggest that, both are so close to being the same, that one wouldnt/couldnt notice the difference, shooting the same load.
..ei. both loaded using same powder make, and powder charge, both pushing a 150 gr. bullet

[Okotokian]

Hate to drag things back, but no one addressed the question I posed earlier in this chain... namely, is a .280 Rem really any more effective in real life situations on elk and moose than a .270, or is the difference so negligible you would never notice and not be worth going to the less-available .280?

Thanks. I won't bother you again LOL :b

[Re: 270]

Sorry Okotokian, I had a reply to you but it got lost and then I was busy with other stuff. The difference is so negligible as to not be worth mentioning. You can go to www.federalpremium.com/ (http://www.federalpremium.com/) and check out the muzzle and 200 yard energies of both cartridges there.

[Re: 270]

There is a pretty simple law of physics that governs recoil energy. It is the same as the muzzle energy of the weapon. There are many factors that mitigate percieved, or felt, recoil but if someone was shooting a Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tip 270 loading from a Browning A-bolt rifle and a Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tip 30-06 loading from a Browning A-bolt rifle in a blind firing test they would have a 50-50 chance of picking the right calibre when asked which was which. They would be as near to identical as you could get.

[Jamie Hunt]

My dad shoots a 280. Nice gun. A real tack driver. But last fall when a box of Ammo went missing we searched all over the Vallyview area to find a box.. NO LUCK. But he did have his 300RUM as a back up.

Jamie

[Mike W]

abhunter,

Don’t know if your comments were in response to my post but what you said is what I was trying to state, that the difference would be so minuet if shot from the same model and using the same load.

My comments were that there are larger contributing factors that directly change the recoil felt than the difference between these 2 calibers.

So when choosing between these 2 calibers there are other deciding factors to consider than which one has more recoil, like bullet selection and hunting conditions/circumstances.

cmfci1,

I have not really read up on the whole ricochet thing. It is just the commonly said statement and from what I have personally witnessed a 30-06 will ricochet less than a 270 and a 300 will ricochet less than a 7mm.
I suppose this thinking would be true if you were shooting a 180 grain out of a 30-06 and a 150 grain out of a 270 (largest grain possible for a 270) and the same could be said for a 175 grain in a 7mm and 200 grain in a 300.

So in that sense by having a calibre that limits you bullet weight range it could be said that a 270 ricochets more than a 30-06.

Also I would still lean towards the fact that a 200 grain bullet traveling @ 2700 fps would also be less prone to ricochet than a 100 grain bullet traveling @ 2700 fps.


But when comparing apples to apples 150 grain .277 dia bullet traveling @ 2700 fps and a 150 grain .30 dia bullet traveling @ 2700 fps yes you are correct they would both ricochet the same.

Okotokian,

A 280 is a great gun if you can find it in a Model that you like I would get it!!

I wouldn’t be so worried about finding bullets for it as that’s a very small factor especially if you load your own or just stock up on the factory stuff.
Let be honest if you get a 270 and shoot anything other than Winchester plain Jane crap you wont be able to find it in small town sporting good stores anyway (even finding 130 or 140 grain can be a challenge!)

You can also load the 280 up to 165 grain I believe and therefore have more knock down power. Even a 150 grain would have more power.

Great gun...get one...make me jealous

Cheers,

Mike

[harv3589]

cmfic1,

I would still use my 270 WSM...I am very confident on how I can shoot it and what shots I can make. Having a bigger calibre is not going to make me more confident. If it is an iffy shot having that big calibre shouldn't lead a person to think that the shot is ok.

I have been on a guided hunt, mind you it was for archery antelope in the States, but my main objective is not to kill something but to have a great time and if I am sucessful that's a bonus and on this trip I wasn't, and I passed on some iffy shots.

[Re: 270]

An interesting observation about Winchester plain jane crap is that animals hit with the stuff die. Novel concept eh?

Mike, what is your basis for the assumptions on ricochet theories? They make no logical sense to me. Is there any data?

If you meant the difference would be minute, why state that the 06 would have more recoil even with the same bullet loaded?

Emotion has far more to do with what we choose to shoot than science.

[cmfic1]

Harv, I never said you shouldnt use your WSM. I meant that given the scenario I personally would rather have a bigger Cartridge. That would also be the general consensus for a high % of Hunters. Typically speaking, you dont see alot of Hunters showing up for an AK/Moose, Grizzly Bear combo with a .270 Win. for ei. Or if it took 5-6 yrs. to get drawn for WMU 300 elk for ei. I would rather be armed with something a little bigger.

Nor did I mean that you personally should feel more confident with a larger chambering. What I meant is that, I personally (as well as almost all my clients throught the years), would feel more confident with a little more oomph in that scenario.

What I typed as a scenario to a Hunt, is in no means an "iffy" shot. I stated that the person feels confident in their abilities, at that range. So seeing as one is confident with their Rilfe @ that range, its not an iffy shot. I have no probs with a .270 Win., but I would rather take that shot with my .300 WM, or 7mmSTW for example. Where I know, that at that angle, I am gonna penetrate up to the vitals, and possibly have an exit hole as well (which is personally, what I want).

If a person has time to shoot alot, then generally they can get used to pretty much any Rifle & its recoil.

Therefore the (Sorta) famous quotes of "Use enough Gun" & "Its better to overgunned than undergunned", could somehow come into play.

[Mike W]

abhunter,

Ok I understand that I might have left out a few words so I will put them all in so you can understand.


My point I was attempting to get across is that the difference would be so "minute" that it would be senseless to worry about the recoil in that sense, you would be better off considering the weight of the gun or other factors when considering recoil from two practically identical calibers.

Now if you buy the 30-06 to use a 165 grain lead than the recoil would be greater than one found in a 150 grain 270.

Now to get back to the recoil 150 grain to 150 grain the difference in recoil would be undetectable similar than the difference in a boat tail and flat bottom, or a copper jacket and a molycoated one.

Now after what I said in my last post how can that ricochet theory not make sense, I figured that was pretty straight forward have you ever taken any sort of entry level physics (high school)? than this should make sense....a heavier bullet will be less prone than a lighter bullet to ricochet if travelling at the same speed....the heavier bullet having more forward momentum or force therefore being less likely to be kicked off course if hitting a leaf or small branch 5 ft away from the target. Like I said this doesn’t mean shoot through bush, its just accidents happen and a branch might not be seen and a larger bullet is less likely to ricochet and a shot can still be lethal.

Now I never said that plain Jane crap won’t kill something but was stating that the bullets are crap and the loads are not as consistent as a hand load or a premium load.

If you shoot a Winchester premium with 150 don’t think that you can walk in and buy some 150 regular ammo and expect to hit the same place the other ammo was hitting but yeah if you wanted to go sight in your gun well out hunting than go for it. I’m sure factory ammo will work when needed in a pinch, I know I wouldn’t feel confident shooting a plain factory ammo at a heavy cape animal like a elk or moose, But yeah a deer wouldn’t matter, just 140 grain lead designed for deer will not always make it to the other side of an larger animal especially if a shoulder bone was hit.

"Emotion has far more to do with what we choose to shoot than science".
Whatever I think thats exactly why people are asking questions cause buy on emotion is not always the best bet a logical purchase is a better route.

Mike

[Okotokian]

Mike W said:

"With a 270 and a 30-06 shooting a 150 grain bullet I still believe that there would be slightly larger recoil with the 30-06. The reason I would come to this conclusion is due to not the weight of the bullet but the "drag" or "force of friction" caused by a larger diameter lead.

Although the same weight the 270 is a smaller diameter but a longer lead, well the 30-06 is a fatter shorter lead."

Mike, I'm not a physics student of any sort, so forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't the force of friction be about the same? wouldn't a shorter/fatter round and a longer/smaller diameter round have the same surface area rubbing against the barrel? the 270 round would have more LENGTH rubbing against the barrel while the 30-06 would have more circumference rubbing. no?

[Mike W]

Okotokian,

Absolutely correct!

I was going to mention it in my last post although I figured that it was running too long as it was.

Thats why I was metioning the difference in the boat tail and flat bottom bullets, With a boat tal the weight is carried without touching the barrel.

Did you get that 280 yet???? ha-ha

Now just for curiosity what type of ammo do you expect to be using?

Mike

[270 good choice]

I've used it on antelope to moose no problems rem core lokts work great 4 me on deer and used the fail safe on the moose.

[swampdonkey17]

i shot my first moose with a 270 and have seen quite a few others dropped with that gun it has plenty of enough punch if the shot is correctly placed. when it comes to big animals like that it dont really matter what size of gun yous shooting if you cant hit the animal in the right spot you might be in for a long chase and with those bigger guns a shot put through the front sholders can ruin alot of good meat.

[Okotokian]

The 270 is a great calibre and there is no need to go bigger, its just a want or a compensation for being a bad shot.

Oh damn. That means I'm going to have to step up to AT LEAST a H&H 375 :lol

[grandmaster]

I've been reading with great interest on the .270 debate regarding bullet weight and I'd like to suggest that Nosler make a mighty fine partition in 160 gr. that I've had great success with on any game you care to mention in North America. I load my own and wouldn't have it any other way, Just a thought! GM

[Cal]

When I first got mine people were making such a fuss about how small it was for moose I was concidering going up to 160s. But after a few years of using it I found out that the 130 grainers would kill anything in alberta with the 150's giving you a little more penetration if you felt you needed it, not even sure what I'd use a 160 for any more, thats got to have the SD of a 200grain+ 30 cal bullet.

On a side note I cant find 130 grain .270 amo of any sort in Slave Lake this year, even WSS in Edmonton didnt have very much.

[brianscott]

Now a days its not so much bullet cal, or size. Its the Construction.
A 130 ttsx from a 270 @ about 3000fps will out penetrate a 300WM with a cheapo bullet.

I have used the 270 for most of my short hunting career, but It has performed better IMO than my 300WSM.

I like the fact that a 270 bullet will often be found on the offside hide of an animal, thus all the bullets energy is expended inside of the animal

This big bodied mulie fell on the spot with one 130 grain federal Fusion, fully dressed he came in at 220 on the hook

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/brianscott1986/HuntingandHalloween035.jpg

[Okotokian]

The latest copy of Alberta Outdoorsmen has a good article on the 270.

Bottom line from the Gunsmith - the 270 is best suited to be a deer and varmit gun. The 270s once popularity is based on marketing and not the guns capability. The 270 is just a necked down 3006 case so why not have a 3006 with more capability with more grain selection. The 270 is very limited on bullet grains. The 270 is losing popularity.

Having once owned a 270, I personally agree.

I'm sure people owning the 270 have claims to great success but this article is the opinion of an experienced gunsmith.

Interestingly the experienced gunsmith (gunsmith and elk hunter?) :D didn't said anything about the .270's capability to handle large game, just popularity,and ammo availability (which still dwarfs most other calibers that doesn't have "-06" in it's name). It seems to me there is a big difference between "best suited" and "unsuited". Not sure what he means by "limited on bullet grains". I've got ones from 100g to 150g from a swath of different manufacturers sitting in my gun cabinet.

If I just wanted to buy a a caliber to use exclusively as my "elk gun", I guess it wouldn't be a .270, but it seems folks have been using them for that quite successfuly. :wave:

[7mm-08]

270 will take moose without any problems as will the 7mm rem mag! My old man has a 7mm rem mag uses it every year for moose in nfld havent seen one walk away yet! Also have a friend who uses a 270 with the same result just put it where it needs to go and game over!

[abrigger]

Now a days its not so much bullet cal, or size. Its the Construction.
A 130 ttsx from a 270 @ about 3000fps will out penetrate a 300WM with a cheapo bullet.

I have used the 270 for most of my short hunting career, but It has performed better IMO than my 300WSM.

I like the fact that a 270 bullet will often be found on the offside hide of an animal, thus all the bullets energy is expended inside of the animal

This big bodied mulie fell on the spot with one 130 grain federal Fusion, fully dressed he came in at 220 on the hook

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr229/brianscott1986/HuntingandHalloween035.jpg

A 270 will never outperform a 300WSM ever, under any circumstances. It may have a chance if you have range loads in the 300 and top ammo in the 270, but I still dout it.
If it does for you what you want it to, then it is a win!

[Dick284]

A 2-1/2 yr old post,
Wow....

[dlkenny]

I have been doing some significant reading about this and I've learned an interesting tidbit. The .270 was developed by winchester because the .277 diameter bullet occupies a unique spot in the ballistics charts. I've been considering buying my girlfriend a rifle that is comfortable and capable of handling a wide variety of game and the two that are on the table are the .270 and the .30-06.

What I've found is that because of the way the energy equation works, the .277 bullet will always retain it's energy much better than the .308 caliber bullets. Inside 300 yards the 30 calibers have more power but over 300 yards, because of the greater surface area in contact with the air it creates more drag and slows the bullet down at much greater rate. Because of the way the energy equation works, as you double the speed you multiply the energy by 2, but as you double the weight of the bullet you only multiply the energy by 1.41 so at longer distances the energy is more dependant on the bullet's speed than weight.

The reality is that for any given bullet weight, the same weight in a smaller diameter will be the more efficient bullet. Compare the .270 with a .130 grains sierra spire point bullet to the .30-06 with a .165 grain sierra spire point bullet, at 500 yards the .270 carries 1060 foot-pounds of energy, compared with only 625 foot pounds from the .30-06. Similar effects can be seen in the .300 Weatherby Magnum compared to the .270 Weatherby Magnum...in order to keep the long distance energy high, the initial energy of the .300 weatherby had to be much higher than the .270 and hence a much bigger cartridge was needed. Past 450 yards, the .270 weatherby carries equal energy as the .300 weatherby and at 1000 yards carries 200 foot pounds more energy. The advantage in the larger bullet in this application is its resistance to windage.

I've also found that by going smaller than .277 that the bullet doesn't have enough mass to carry the speed (momentum) and so the bullet's energy drops off faster. The .277 was developed by Winchester for this reason, and it's the same reason that Roy Weatherby started with this bullet when he created his line of magnum rifles. Consider the .257 weatherby magnum compared to the .270 winchester, the .270 carries it's energy better than the .257 weatherby. This has little to do with the cartridge but simply the physics acting on the bullet in flight, though the .270 does drop a little more than the .257.

Considering that most game should never be taken in excess of 350 yards anyway (though it happens) the reality is that both rifles have more than adequate power inside that range for virtually any north american big game species.

Years ago, my father owned a .270 Winchester and shot at a moose some 400 yards away. He killed the moose but was disappointed in the 4 shots it took to kill it. While dressing the moose he found 2 bullets lodged in the brisket bone and realized that more power was needed. His options at the time were to go to a bigger bullet or to chamber out his .270 to a weatherby magnum. After asking a few gunsmiths he opted to chamber out the .270 to a weatherby magnum (the cost was less than buying a new rifle). That was in 1969 and since that time the rifle has killed over 50 moose, 2 elk, dozens of deer, a grizzly bear, 2 black bears, a lynx, a coyote, and a bighorn sheep. The longest shot was 800 yards from a rock bluff at a moose which did nothing more than spin a circle and drop.

A few years ago my father retired that rifle and bought a .300 Winchester Magnum (only because it was a good deal). Since that time he has had equal success with that rifle.

My own observation is that ballistically the .270 is more efficient, but the .30 calibers (especially the magnums) carry more energy inside 450 yards. Outside 450 yards, the .270 carries it's energy better but is more effected by windage. One issue that is often overlooked in this debate though is that of recoil. The .270 is generally a *****cat, and the recoil is manageable for virtually anyone. The .30-06 is inconsistent from one rifle to another, some kick really hard and others are quite manageable. My uncle owned a Husqvarna .30-06 which kicked significantly harder than my Weatherby, while my grandfather owns a .30-06 in a remington 700 that is very docile. While picking a rifle off the shelf one doesn't know this until it is taken to the range. This makes the choice for some easy simply because they are not comfortable with the possibility of a heavier recoil.

The result is really a toss up and becomes a question of preference. I personally own a .270 Weatherby Magnum (Mark V Weatherby, german made) and I'm very happy with it. In the case of my girlfriend I have elected to buy the .270 Winchester for my girlfriend simply because I can use the same reloading components as with my Weatherby and I feel that it will do everything she'll ever want it to.

[Pioneer2]

About all I use in mine is 57gr IMR 4831/Fed or Win brass/Fed mag primer and Hornady 130gr SP mice to moose.........................Harold