Trolling deep without downriggers

[Dr.Shortington]

Hi Guys,

Heading out to Shuswap this weekend, gonna do some trolling. I don't have a downrigger so was just wondering some good methods to get deep in a lake like that?

Currently I just use a few weights and some swivels. My line always ends up getting twisted wound up, and I dont think I am down that deep!!

Any advice would be great! Some pics would help as well. Thanks guys :)

[chedder]

Lead core line will get you down reasonably deep (40-80 feet, I believe)

Check this link

http://www.baitrodreel.com/detailed-lead-core-line-depth-chart/

[EZM]

Lead core line will get you down reasonably deep (40-80 feet, I believe)

Check this link

http://www.baitrodreel.com/detailed-lead-core-line-depth-chart/

Dispsy Divers, Deep Six will work like a dream. Keep in mind these diving planer devices pull hard on a rod, so it's best to use a stiff rod and have it secured in a sturdy rod holder.

We ran one off the rigger, one off the dipsy (with or without planer boards) and one straight back via mooching weight. All methods produced fished.

To eliminate line twist - use a few swivel snaps between each connection and bead chain on your final connection to your fluoro/mono leader.

I was in Shuswap last week. Rainbows were down anywhere from 30' to 60' and seemed to be holding off structure near points. A fly behind a small dodger was the number one lure. Colors were green silver and Black/White/Silver that were the ticket.

Apexes / Coyotes / Lymans were less productive. Fished from Celista to Anglemont mostly.

[Dr.Shortington]

Dispsy Divers, Deep Six will work like a dream. Keep in mind these diving planer devices pull hard on a rod, so it's best to use a stiff rod and have it secured in a sturdy rod holder.

We ran one off the rigger, one off the dipsy (with or without planer boards) and one straight back via mooching weight. All methods produced fished.

To eliminate line twist - use a few swivel snaps between each connection and bead chain on your final connection to your fluoro/mono leader.

I was in Shuswap last week. Rainbows were down anywhere from 30' to 60' and seemed to be holding off structure near points. A fly behind a small dodger was the number one lure. Colors were green silver and Black/White/Silver that were the ticket.

Apexes / Coyotes / Lymans were less productive. Fished from Celista to Anglemont mostly.

Could you explain what "straight back via mooching weight" means???

So basically I just buy a dipsy diver, tie on a few swivels and some leader and away I go???

[Dr.Shortington]

Could you explain what "straight back via mooching weight" means???

So basically I just buy a dipsy diver, tie on a few swivels and some leader and away I go???


Also what kind of fly? Would a wooly bugger work? Doc spratley??

[EZM]

Also what kind of fly? Would a wooly bugger work? Doc spratley??

Sorry .... Trolling trout flies for in big BC lakes are not the same as the ones you would use fly fishing. They are large head weighted bucktails like these ....

http://kootenayangler.com/images/flies3.jpg

Keep in mind Shuswap is single barbless - (so you will have to clip one point off and pinch down the remaining).

From the business end to the main line here's what it looks like .......

Bucktail Fly tied on with loop onto 30"-36" of fluorocarbon.

A bead swivel

A dodger - 4" - Silver

Main Line

[EZM]

Could you explain what "straight back via mooching weight" means???

So basically I just buy a dipsy diver, tie on a few swivels and some leader and away I go???

Basically you run a "just under the surface" line to catch the rainbows that are actively feeding and pushing bait fish to the surface "straight back behind the boat". Typically I let out 150' feet a line (or more if it's calm).

The set up is ....

2, 3 or 4 oz mooching sinker with bead chain on both ends.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=xKTG3IU1&id=9B0EF9A9B752D2D91A60725DB258AC79A8482A40&thid=OIP.xKTG3IU18Po2GEUj0ItgQAEgDY&q=mooching+sinker&simid=608009882906789177&selectedIndex=5&ajaxhist=0

Optionally, set of willow leafs to a swivel snap or another bead chain and then, finally a fluorocarbon or mono leader back to a lure which could be a bucktail or apex or spoon

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=5iwtrJ0j&id=93FF58263D302C6F20D080B6C70313B703CBEE71&thid=OIP.5iwtrJ0j99Z9hVBsC8B6IADbEd&q=willow+leaf+gang+troll&simid=608027230284875249&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0

The length of the leader depends on the lure.

Flies and Apexes run long - like 30"

Spoons can be short - like 18"

[Tfng]

I've had success with a very heavy custom made bottom bouncer. I'd estimate it's at least ten ounces. It doesn't tangle as easily but you do need to use care in how fast you drop it down.

[SamSteele]

Luhr Jensen Pink Ladies are an option as well. I've used them for lakers.

SS

[Dr.Shortington]

Basically you run a "just under the surface" line to catch the rainbows that are actively feeding and pushing bait fish to the surface "straight back behind the boat". Typically I let out 150' feet a line (or more if it's calm).

The set up is ....

2, 3 or 4 oz mooching sinker with bead chain on both ends.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=xKTG3IU1&id=9B0EF9A9B752D2D91A60725DB258AC79A8482A40&thid=OIP.xKTG3IU18Po2GEUj0ItgQAEgDY&q=mooching+sinker&simid=608009882906789177&selectedIndex=5&ajaxhist=0

Optionally, set of willow leafs to a swivel snap or another bead chain and then, finally a fluorocarbon or mono leader back to a lure which could be a bucktail or apex or spoon

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=5iwtrJ0j&id=93FF58263D302C6F20D080B6C70313B703CBEE71&thid=OIP.5iwtrJ0j99Z9hVBsC8B6IADbEd&q=willow+leaf+gang+troll&simid=608027230284875249&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0

The length of the leader depends on the lure.

Flies and Apexes run long - like 30"

Spoons can be short - like 18"

Thanks a bunch, very detailed, much appreciated!!! I'll have to head out a lunch to grab a few supplies.

[RavYak]

You can use pink ladies, deep sixes, mooching weights etc but to fish those effectively you should use a line counter reel so you know how much line you have out and therefore how deep you are fishing. Also gets complicated because you need to figure out how deep your lure is for each amount of line and speed something most people won't take the time to do which leaves them fishing at the wrong depth compared to where they may think or want to be.

It is a lot less hassle, more accurate and little difference in price to just buy down riggers and I wouldn't be caught without them when fishing in these sort of situations.

If you are only going to fish deep like this once in a blue moon manual downriggers work fine and aren't really that expensive. I was just made aware of Shasta Tackles Shuttle Hawk which if it works as good as it looks like it could then they would make using manual downriggers very easy especially when you are fishing suspended and not worried about snags. For fishing like this regularly you can't beat electric downriggers and although they are a bit of an investment up front they hold their value and sell like hotcakes used. I wish I had enough room for an electric downrigger on my kayak lol.

[Tfng]

^ So true. I've got downriggers and am upset when I can't use them. The weight I mentioned was used on fly in trips.

[stob]

jet divers or the mooching weights old school with # of line pulls as you counter

[Lowrance Fishburn]

Use a 3-way swivel, attach some line about a foot with a bell sinker on the other end. Then tie about 4 feet of leader to the other part of the swivel and affix a snap swivel. Then you just put on your favorite lure and let out line as you are trolling as to avoid getting things tangled. Reach your preferred depth, and boom, you're down rigging. ( a line counter is great, otherwise just estimate it)

[The Spank]

Downriggers are THE way to go BUT if they are not in your budget then I would suggest a Dipsy Diver. A 3/0 dipsy running 50# braid will get you down 50' at 2.5 mph with 125 ft of line out. If you dont like a dipsy set up then run lead core. It's colour coded so you know how many feet you have out based on colour count sections.

[TROLLER]

Use a 3-way swivel, attach some line about a foot with a bell sinker on the other end. Then tie about 4 feet of leader to the other part of the swivel and affix a snap swivel. Then you just put on your favorite lure and let out line as you are trolling as to avoid getting things tangled. Reach your preferred depth, and boom, you're down rigging. ( a line counter is great, otherwise just estimate it)

X2 If you don't have a down rigger 3 way is the best but like it was said before you will need a stiff rod for sure. Also I know a few guys that pull a hoochi just below the surface at a quick pace 3mph and have had very good luck

[Zuludog]

I've used most of these methods. If you want something relatively easy I suggest the following:
- Use 80-100 lb fluorocarbon about 3-4' and tie a big barreled snap swivel to each end. (I use this for lakers)

- Tie one end to your braided line (50lb. minimum) and on the tailing end clip on your spoon or lure.

- Clip an 8oz banana weight to the snap swivel that is tied to your line.

- Use a line counting reel, line counter or count how many times your line passes across the reel.

Have fun.

[wildwoods]

X2 If you don't have a down rigger 3 way is the best but like it was said before you will need a stiff rod for sure. Also I know a few guys that pull a hoochi just below the surface at a quick pace 3mph and have had very good luck

Pulling a hootchie on the Shu is a great way to get a fine. You can't target salmon and I've heard from a local guide that they hand out boat infraction tickets cause they can't "prove" you're targeting them. I'd advise against this method.

To the OP. I would suggest finding a downrigger wether used or new. Pretty inexpensive and the best way to get down to those lovely trophy trout.

[EZM]

Pulling a hootchie on the Shu is a great way to get a fine. You can't target salmon and I've heard from a local guide that they hand out boat infraction tickets cause they can't "prove" you're targeting them. I'd advise against this method.

To the OP. I would suggest finding a downrigger wether used or new. Pretty inexpensive and the best way to get down to those lovely trophy trout.

Chinook and Coho, which are present in Shuswap, are closed to retention, however, Sokeye (kokanee), which are also salmon are open to retention.

Seems strange to me that using a hoochie would get you in hot water. Hoochies work for Rainbows, Lakers, Bulls, Kokanees and pretty much everything else you might target in the Shuswap.

I'm really not sure what other "infractions" they would nail a guy with, like maybe no life vests or whatever - but that seems pretty unethical to me to try and dissuade someone from "targeting a zero retention" species by hunting for other fines to give a guy because he is using a perfectly legal lure.

[wildwoods]

Chinook and Coho, which are present in Shuswap, are closed to retention, however, Sokeye (kokanee), which are also salmon are open to retention.

Seems strange to me that using a hoochie would get you in hot water. Hoochies work for Rainbows, Lakers, Bulls, Kokanees and pretty much everything else you might target in the Shuswap.

I'm really not sure what other "infractions" they would nail a guy with, like maybe no life vests or whatever - but that seems pretty unethical to me to try and dissuade someone from "targeting a zero retention" species by hunting for other fines to give a guy because he is using a perfectly legal lure.

Don't shoot the messenger. I talked with the guide out of West Side Stores in salmon arm. He informed me of this. He basically wouldn't sell me a hootchie out of his store as a result. There is a YouTube video of guys catching "pesky" salmon. You guessed it, they were using a hootchie behind an agitator. I don't agree with the boating infraction fines as an indirect way of hitting guys for using this method. But I do agree to try and not target them as much as possible. as far as Kokanee goes, I believe they do live out their lives in the lake so it's a different kettle of fish so to speak. But speaking to the coho and chinook- they want them left alone so I'll support that.

[EZM]

Don't shoot the messenger. I talked with the guide out of West Side Stores in salmon arm. He informed me of this. He basically wouldn't sell me a hootchie out of his store as a result. There is a YouTube video of guys catching "pesky" salmon. You guessed it, they were using a hootchie behind an agitator. I don't agree with the boating infraction fines as an indirect way of hitting guys for using this method. But I do agree to try and not target them as much as possible. as far as Kokanee goes, I believe they do live out their lives in the lake so it's a different kettle of fish so to speak. But speaking to the coho and chinook- they want them left alone so I'll support that.

I understand. Not questioning you or your integrity - just questioning the guy's motivation who told you that. Maybe I'm paranoid - lol.

I can't help but to think sometimes locals don't like "visitors" populating their lakes and tend to "not share the best information" with them and sometimes won't give them the right info (or lures) to use.

Why someone would have tackle on their shelf, for sale, that they didn't intent to sell seems fishy to me. If you don't want to sell the hoochie, why didn't they pull it off the shelf.

I have caught the majority of my lakers and bulls off a hoochie on Kootenay and Shuswap. Probably out fishes other lures 5 to 1. Seem ironic doesn't it?

I've fished BC lakes all my life and a hoochie, certain times of the year, is the absolute best lure out there.

It would be funny if you asked him to guide you for a day and he strung you up a hoochie !!!!!! after all guides catch more fish right? lol.

I run a Dodger in front, (or a Flasher,) with 30"-36" of fluoro to a hoochie. It is a go to for me every trip to see if that's the ticket. More often than not, one line is always dragging a hoochie because it works.

PS - one very big reason a hoochie set up works or doesn't work is the speed as it relates to your dodger or flasher. Dodgers are best slow. Flashers are best fast.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Down rigging isn't the end all be all, it can be more trouble than it's worth in some circumstances.

If you are fishing a shelf, and want to stay close to bottom, a three way rig is best. You can find bottom easily, and even drag your lures on bottom. Do that with a downrigger and you're asking for dangerous trouble that will cost you $$$.

Simple three way:

Heavy braided mainline: 65-80lb test
To an equally weighted three way swivel.
36" of fluorocarbon leader material off one swivel eye.
Off the last eye, use a quick connect (snap swivel without the swivel) to change out your weight. 6-10oz cannon balls, banana (inline) weights or tear drops all work.

If you get hung up on bottom, reverse your boat back and pull it out the way it went in. If you are fishing rocks, 95% of the time it will come out.

[wildwoods]

I understand. Not questioning you or your integrity - just questioning the guy's motivation who told you that. Maybe I'm paranoid - lol.

I can't help but to think sometimes locals don't like "visitors" populating their lakes and tend to "not share the best information" with them and sometimes won't give them the right info (or lures) to use.

Why someone would have tackle on their shelf, for sale, that they didn't intent to sell seems fishy to me. If you don't want to sell the hoochie, why didn't they pull it off the shelf.

I have caught the majority of my lakers and bulls off a hoochie on Kootenay and Shuswap. Probably out fishes other lures 5 to 1. Seem ironic doesn't it?

I've fished BC lakes all my life and a hoochie, certain times of the year, is the absolute best lure out there.

It would be funny if you asked him to guide you for a day and he strung you up a hoochie !!!!!! after all guides catch more fish right? lol.

I run a Dodger in front, (or a Flasher,) with 30"-36" of fluoro to a hoochie. It is a go to for me every trip to see if that's the ticket. More often than not, one line is always dragging a hoochie because it works.

PS - one very big reason a hoochie set up works or doesn't work is the speed as it relates to your dodger or flasher. Dodgers are best slow. Flashers are best fast.

Yeah I like the hoochie set up as well. The explanation I was given for selling them was a lot of guys head to the ocean to fish salmon. :thinking-006:
Regardless just be careful. I did get that vibe that they don't like visitors fishing their waters. He even went as far as to say a flasher/dodger are not necessary for catching trout. While I know that to be true, my success rates have gone up dramatically with both.....

[The Fisherman Guy]

The authorities are to follow the letter of the law, and no where does it state in the regulations that a hootchie/flasher/dodger combo cannot be used in those waters while angling for trout.

I have only had one run in with the authorities where their ethical standpoint was confused with regulation. I politely asked them to prove their point, by showing me where I was in contravention of the regs. They bit their tongue, realizing they had confused their own opinion with their job. They didn't like my challenge, however I also didn't appreciate the attempted lesson in personal ethics. The subject was; we had caught and retained our limit, and were continuing to fish, practicing catch and release in ice fishing season. Officer became pushy, telling us we needed to stop fishing. This was the only time I have had an exchange like this, and chalked it up to the officer having a bad day.

You would need to be anchored in the Shushwap river on a school of spawning Chinooks, bottom bouncing your flasher/hoothie combo into their open mouths for me to be certain you aren't angling for trout.