Do wire leaders prevent strikes?

[bpk1982]

My fishing experience is mostly for trout. However, Ive been shore fishing lately for pike around the various reservoirs in southern Alberta. Just this past weekend, four of us went to the lake fishing for pike. The two in the group getting the most strikes were not using a leader of any kind. Myself and the other gent were using 8" wire. All of us were using similar lures. So the question is: Do wire leaders prevent strikes?

On another note we've been using spoons, storm perch/walleye lures, and baby pike. Been doing ok. What are the other must have pike lures? ( for shore fishing)

Thanks guys

[millsboy79]

I have switched my leaders to 50 to 80lb fluorocarbon ... just in case.

I have found swim baits work good for pike.

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[Stinky Buffalo]

Just for fun, I stopped using leaders on a trip out to Lesser Slave Lake earlier this summer. There were three of us in the boat, the other two were using leaders, and we were trolling for pike and walleye.

Personally, I noticed that my strike count went up, even if it was only slightly. I felt that it did give me an edge, though.

millsboy79, where do you get your fluoro leader line from? Do you make them yourself, or buy them pre-made?

[neilsledder]

I have switched to fluorocarbon leaders and notice a difference. Not so much when they are biting like crazy but when there is not much biting. If they are being picky I will out fish guys that use wire.


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[millsboy79]

Just for fun, I stopped using leaders on a trip out to Lesser Slave Lake earlier this summer. There were three of us in the boat, the other two were using leaders, and we were trolling for pike and walleye.

Personally, I noticed that my strike count went up, even if it was only slightly. I felt that it did give me an edge, though.

millsboy79, where do you get your fluoro leader line from? Do you make them yourself, or buy them pre-made?
I bought the spools from wholesale sports or basspro and tied them myself. I actually tied one for each lure and attach the leader and lure to my snap at the end of my braided main line.

Seaguar STS 50lb (was the largest I could find at the time)

Seaguar Blue Lable 80lb

Just make sure it's actual leader not line. Then again I heard of people simply going in and buying 100lb mono in bulk for the same purpose.

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[Tom Pullings]

I think it makes a slight difference. Worth the money and effort to me.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Thanks, MillsBoy79!

[RavYak]

Do wire leaders prevent pike strikes? Probably especially depending on the water clarity, lure/technique being used and how the fish are biting/acting on a given day.

That is the big reason I use fluorocarbon leaders when ice fishing since you are often using stationary or near stationary fishing techniques in clearer water that the pike often investigate before biting.

Reading those comments probably made you think oh well I should use fluorocarbon all the time then but although they probably are beneficial at times I can't be bothered to use them for summer fishing. They require continuous retying and I hate losing hooks which I do feel happens more often when using Fluorocarbon. I also hate having a longer leader of 50-80 lb fluorocarbon that doesn't fit through rod eyelets well.

I also can usually catch more pike in a day at a good lake using wire leaders then I want or need to and have caught numerous 15 and even 20+ lbers on wire leaders(titanium to be exact) so I don't personally overthink the situation and just stick with what I know works.

Imo finding the proper lure/presentation is FAR more important then worrying about leader visibility. If you want to use finesse fishing techniques such as jigging, slow retrieving a swimbait or just soaking bait etc then I would definitely consider using fluorocarbon leaders but I almost never personally fish for pike like that in the summer.

[millsboy79]

Imo finding the proper lure/presentation is FAR more important then worrying about leader visibility. If you want to use finesse fishing techniques such as jigging, slow retrieving a swimbait or just soaking bait etc then I would definitely consider using fluorocarbon leaders but I almost never personally fish for pike like that in the summer.

Perhaps it's a trade secret but since I almost exclusively fish for pike with swim baits I am curious how you fish for pike during the open water season?

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[bpk1982]

Thanks for the great info so far guys. Keep it coming.

Could anyone describe exactly how your using the mono leaders? Are you tieing it directly to your line or using a swivel? How long? Even a picture would be nice.

[NSR Fisher]

I would definitely throw my support behind Flouro leaders.

Remember to buy "leader material" Flourocarbon, rather than just mainline stuff. It is much tougher and abrasion resistant.

For your average reservoir in Alberta 30lb leader grade Flouro should be perfect. Just tie a 24" length from a swivel down to your snap. Lets you rotate threw spoon patterns quite quickly, and the swivel helps avoid line twist.

After catching a fish its nice to check the leader, usually if you get them right in the upper or lower jaw with a good hook set the leader is untouched and not a concern but sometimes they absolutely inhale your lure and it sucks finding out the hard way that your leader is done for by losing a nice fish close to the boat! :angry3:

Even for just plain walleye jigging, I will use a long length of 15 to 20 pound fluorocarbon because its completely invisible in water. Also has a little bit of stretch which helps avoid pulling hooks out of mouths. Pure braid has no give and if you really yank a hookset you can rip the hook right out of a fishes mouth.

[aulrich]

Wire can mess with lure action as well, in soft water I have not noticed a big difference, unless the water is really clear


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[millsboy79]

Thanks for the great info so far guys. Keep it coming.

Could anyone describe exactly how your using the mono leaders? Are you tieing it directly to your line or using a swivel? How long? Even a picture would be nice.
I use a rapala knot to the lure and a surgeons loop at the other end which I attach to a snap.

If you want to attack your line directly to you leader I would either use a no name knot or a sebile knot then a snap swivel at the end.

I do it the first way to reduce the hardware at the lure.

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[CMichaud]

I just tie 2' of 30lb flouro onto the swivel and direct tie to my jig head. Add rubber tail (and usually shiner in one eye out the other)

The swivel is connected to my snap link which is in turn tied onto my main line (spider wire).

I roll it up and throw it into the box when going to a rap or spoon. For fast retrieve and or trolling I will put a wire leader on.

This is for walleye/pike. Have yet to have the line break through although the jigs have been massacred and needed changing

When it comes to trout it is no wire leader for me.

[scel]

My fishing experience is mostly for trout. However, Ive been shore fishing lately for pike around the various reservoirs in southern Alberta. Just this past weekend, four of us went to the lake fishing for pike. The two in the group getting the most strikes were not using a leader of any kind. Myself and the other gent were using 8" wire. All of us were using similar lures. So the question is: Do wire leaders prevent strikes?

On another note we've been using spoons, storm perch/walleye lures, and baby pike. Been doing ok. What are the other must have pike lures? ( for shore fishing)

Thanks guys

First of all, I give some cred to EZM. Here is fluoro leader recipe:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=320677&page=2&highlight=fluorocarbon+leader
I have thoroughly field tested it. If you need a general application leader, substitute 60# or 80# fluoro for 25# or 30#. I also will terminate with a type 1 Mustad Fastach clip tied on with a perfection loop to allow crankbaits to move more naturally.

If pike are specifically being targetted, I find very little difference between homemade single strand titanium leaders and homemade fluorocarbon leaders. I use titanium on my fly rod because it is thin and stiff, which allows the fly to turn over much better than a 40# fluoro leader.

The comparison is not really fair which one works better, but just after ice-out, I easily outfish all the spincasters in my group, regardless of leader being used, with my flyrod/titanium leader combo. I am not throwing down, but there is a 4 week window when fly fishing for pike is super effective.

However, when trolling for walleye, we noticed a massive increase in bites and hook ups using 30#fluoro leaders vs any form of wire leader. That being said, it was better to use no leader (other than a standard 20#braid to 8# fluoro) when fishing for anything other than pike. When trolling crankbaits, unless you are rolling in cash and extra crankbaits, a leader is critical to preserve the crankbait from inevitable pike attacks.

If you want the leader to last, it needs to be 60# fluoro or heavier. It needs to be leader material, which is stiffer and more nick resistant. 40# will also work, but it has a lifetime. Anything less than 40# needs to be thoroughly checked after each pike. They have a finite lifetime and a big pike (5kg+) has the shredding power to rip anything less than 40# fluoro.

Steel and steel braid leaders are crap compared to homemade fluoro and titanium wire. They are easy. They time spent getting from store to fishing is 1 knot. They are bulky, and they get bent and twisted easily.

In application specific areas, like fly fishing, titanium is better.

Overall, for most spin fishing, I would say the edge goes to fluoro leaders. At worst, they work as well as titanium leaders, at best, they will probably outperform picky pike, especially in clear-water and summer situations. In a price per leader situation, homemade fluoro leaders are the cheapest solution by far and arguably the most effective.

[RavYak]

Perhaps it's a trade secret but since I almost exclusively fish for pike with swim baits I am curious how you fish for pike during the open water season?

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I do 95+% of my pike fishing with an assortment of crankbaits. I use a few spoons once in a while and try the odd swim bait etc once in a blue moon to mix it up but always end up going back to my crankbaits.

I hate soft baits for pike, soft plastics gets destroyed in no time and I don't find them as effective as some of my favourite crankbaits.

[EZM]

Thanks for the thumbs up Scel !!

I've been using fluorocarbon since the product first came out. I have NEVER used a wire leader since.

I have NEVER had a "bite off" using the proper product, and thick enough fluorocarbon leader material. I use 80lb leader material for pike and heavy, rated, snaps and swivel snaps.

I am on my 4th year with a 80 lb leader I tied in 2013 and it has caught over 1000 pike by this time (It's on my med/heavy rod and it's become like a game to me now to see how long it will go - lol). It is beginning to nick and peel in some areas so I'm not using expensive lures/cranks on it anymore.

I am convinced there is ZERO reason or advantage to using wire in Alberta.

- The fluoro can be grabbed with the hand to control the fish and it won't cut you, or the fish making releases safer for both you and the fish.

- You will get more strikes, and noticeably more the slower you are fishing (your presentation).

- Lure presentation/action is superior to wire simply because fluoro is far more supple.

I love the stuff - I would do a commercial for it if I wasn't so damn fat and ugly.

-

[bpk1982]

Awesome guys. This thread has been very informative. I went out tonight and bought some Seagar flouro. I'll try it out this weekend :)

[neilsledder]

I like the flouro because it doesn't kink up. If you catch a pike that's does a role and wraps its self up in your leader/line your metal leader is done!


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[scel]

Yo, EZM, I give credit where credit is due. :)

Your borderline fanaticism made me take a spinning rod and give the fluoro leaders a test. I have 2 summers of personal testing---I spend 2 weeks at the family cottage right after ice-out fishing for pike and walleye. For spring pike specifically, I still notice no difference fishing, in both catch rate and bites. Using spinning gear, even if titanium is as good, the price difference in making a leader is absolutely insane---it is at least 10x cheaper to use fluoro. Your leaders are borderline bulletproof. If you downgrade the fluoro test and connection hardware, the leaders become useful for all species.

I like the flouro because it doesn't kink up. If you catch a pike that's does a role and wraps its self up in your leader/line your metal leader is done!


Single strand titanium is very hard to kink. It is very supple and bendy---you can even tie knots with it. Knot2Kinky is my favorite brand. Unfortunately, when using titanium, a rolling fish runs the risk of turning the leader into a cheese cutter.

In literally thousands of pike I have caught using a titanium leader, it is only happened once where the fish slaughtered itself with my leader. It happened in the first 100 or so pike that I had caught, and really it was my fault, not the leader's, for damaging the fish.
Kinked leaders and titanium wire guillotines are both avoidable with proper pike handling skills.
- Learn to read the fish (almost all thrashing is preceded by an open mouth and gill flaring).
- Avoid lifting the fish out of the water. A pike that is netted and brought into a boat will thrash like mad. Using a cradle even for smaller pike is a good idea. If a net is used, just keep it in the water to avoid its full weight coming back on the leader.
- Always have appropriate tools on hand---long nose pliers, boltcutters, and jaw spreaders. Boltcutters and jaw spreaders are last resort tools. I am super diligent about debarbing my hooks, so boltcutters are usually not necessary, but if treble hooks are being used, the boltcutters are there for both the health and welfare of the pike and the angler. Jaw spreaders are almost irrelevant once a good jaw grip is mastered.
- Learn how to get a good jaw grip on a pike. It is a little unnerving at first, and yes, you will get nicked and scratched, but a proper jaw grip is the safest way of handling a pike for both person and the fish. With a proper jaw grip, fingers are nowhere near gills and teeth (especially those rakers on the upper jaw)

[neilsledder]

I never have used a titanium leader. Used steel then found flouro and liked then enough not to try anything else. Might pick one up and try it.


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[RavYak]

I never have used a titanium leader. Used steel then found flouro and liked then enough not to try anything else. Might pick one up and try it.


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Think steel leader with a smaller diameter that doesn't kink(well it can kink if it is bent at a very sharp angle but even then usually only leaves a slight bend in the leader and because of the smaller diameter size it usually doesn't significantly affect lure presentation).

I buy the finntastic 60 lb 12 inch single strand versions and they work great. Barring bad line a leader can easily last you a full season or more of heavy fishing which makes their seemingly high price actually really cheap.

I used to use the 30 lb version but eventually they fail where the loop of material meets the snap or swivel. We are talking after months of use but still I prefer to never lose lures so stepped it up to 60 and haven't noticed any significant difference in catch rate.

Pike love big shiny and noisy lures. Why some people think a thin black leader will scare them away I am not sure...

I love fluorocarbon and use it for all my leaders, except pike... I just find it unnecessary and a nuisance for pike since you always have to check it for nicks and retie or tie a new piece on.

[bpk1982]

Ok I bought some Seagar 40lb flouro leader. I want to tie it to my 15lb braid. So what knot is best for thick line to thin line? Also, what's the best knot for the 40lb flouro to the lures?
Thanks

[millsboy79]

Ok I bought some Seagar 40lb flouro leader. I want to tie it to my 15lb braid. So what knot is best for thick line to thin line? Also, what's the best knot for the 40lb flouro to the lures?
Thanks
It takes some time to learn and is not fun to try and do on the fly but I like the sebile knot simply because it's so low profile.

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[Justfishin73]

I've never had trout bite with a leader---take it off-night and day, they have damn good eyes. Titanium leaders waste of money--they kink just as easy.

Crankbait for pike eh? huh, never worked for me, good ol five of diamonds is my go to

[EZM]

Awesome guys. This thread has been very informative. I went out tonight and bought some Seagar flouro. I'll try it out this weekend :)

Just make sure it's says "LEADER" material on the package.

There is fluorocarbon line and there is fluorocarbon leader and they are not the same formulation and you won't get the same results. I am convinced that the overwhelming majority of people on the forum who trash talked fluorocarbon leaders either went too light/thin on test size or simply purchased line instead of leader material. Leader material costs 4-5 times as much per foot - and for good reason. It comes in 25yd to 50yd rolls.

The leader material is a little stiffer, far more abrasion resistant and is specifically extruded to prevent cutting/slicing from the teeth of fish.

[bpk1982]

Just make sure it's says "LEADER" material on the package.

There is fluorocarbon line and there is fluorocarbon leader and they are not the same formulation and you won't get the same results. I am convinced that the overwhelming majority of people on the forum who trash talked fluorocarbon leaders either went too light/thin on test size or simply purchased line instead of leader material. Leader material costs 4-5 times as much per foot - and for good reason. It comes in 25yd to 50yd rolls.

The leader material is a little stiffer, far more abrasion resistant and is specifically extruded to prevent cutting/slicing from the teeth of fish.

Gotcha. I did make sure it was leader material. However I'm having trouble tying the heavy flouro to thin braid...

[neilsledder]

Gotcha. I did make sure it was leader material. However I'm having trouble tying the heavy flouro to thin braid...



I use a swivel makes joining the lines easier. Plus it should stop so line twist.


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[scel]

Gotcha. I did make sure it was leader material. However I'm having trouble tying the heavy flouro to thin braid...

Start with an Albright Knot. It is not the 'best' knot to use, but it is one of the easiest to tie and part of what I would consider the 'essential knot kit', along with the improved clinch knot, perfection loop, non-slip mono loop, surgeons knot, and uni knot.

I attest the best knot to use to connect braid to fluoro is the FG knot, but it is not a great knot to tie in the field.

[RavYak]

I have never tried the FG knot cause it looks like a nightmare but if I was going to be using heavy fluoro as a leader it is what I would start tying since it can go through the guides much better then most other knots. For those that don't know the FG knot is pretty much like a chinese finger trap with the braid just cinching down onto the fluoro.

You could use a swivel if you are only going to tie on say 12 inch leaders but then you have to throw it out and put a new one on each time they get marked up.

I use the power pro no name knot. It is a strong knot but the overhand knot does get bulky with heavy fluoro(as does every other knot too except FG knot).

http://www.powerpro.com/content/powerpro-north-america/en/home/tie-a-knot.html

[bpk1982]

Start with an Albright Knot. It is not the 'best' knot to use, but it is one of the easiest to tie and part of what I would consider the 'essential knot kit', along with the improved clinch knot, perfection loop, non-slip mono loop, surgeons knot, and uni knot.

I attest the best knot to use to connect braid to fluoro is the FG knot, but it is not a great knot to tie in the field.

After trying several of the knots listed, I've fought the Albright knot to be the easiest for me to tie plus it shouldn't be bad in the field. Suggestions on the best knot to attach heavy leader to the swivel?

[Dweb]

After trying several of the knots listed, I've fought the Albright knot to be the easiest for me to tie plus it shouldn't be bad in the field. Suggestions on the best knot to attach heavy leader to the swivel?

Palomar

[Talking moose]

Willow leaf, ford fender..... 4 feet of steel with a worm at the end. Trout love it.

[PerchBuster]

Water clarity and whether or not there is sunlight when you fish are the biggest determining factors. Steel is fine fishing deep, murky and/or any other low light conditions or periods. Big Pike readily eat gaudy looking wire three way rigs with blades on them and such under the ice with plenty of time to look it over first so a leader is no hindrance under similar conditions anytime of year. When the sun is high, clear water, shallow water, or any other conditions where fish can see easily, could be spooky, go stealthy as possible, use Fluorocarbon Leader. Fish to the conditions. Same goes for upsizing or downsizing your presentation or using colourful and flashy or subtle and dark!
Good Luck!

[RavYak]

After trying several of the knots listed, I've fought the Albright knot to be the easiest for me to tie plus it shouldn't be bad in the field. Suggestions on the best knot to attach heavy leader to the swivel?

Advanced Clinch knot works fine, just wrap it less then you would smaller lines.

I use 7 wraps on all my lighter lines and braid. Usually around 5 wraps for 20+ lb fluoro, 4 wraps for 50+ and haven't tried 80 yet but you might need to step down to 3 wraps for it. I have tied up to 300 lb mono using the advanced clinch, one of the most versatile knots just have to change the number of wraps you use when tying heavy lines(3 wraps minimum though).

[bigrfish]

Surgeons knot works fine for me, seems to work well for different diameter lines as well.Have a few tied this way...no issues.

[bigrfish]

Palomar is a good knot as well.