ACTIVE SHOOTERS in Las Vegas - 2 dead, 24 injured as of 0100 MST

[golferac]

Live feed on Reddit. Multiple Shooters
Currently it is reported as follows:
Weapons: m16
Hotels: Around Tropicana, LV Boulevard near Mandalay Bay, Around NY NY
Airports: Multiple airports shut down

One suspect down - 2/3 possibly remaining/unknown

https://www.reddit.com/live/zpctrtpkt0hw/

Check any media outlet. Prayers go out to the victims and those seeking shelter as I type

[tri777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIR-FeVU2C0

and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAVL4J2uwW4

[golferac]

0200am update

Unconfirmed and speculation: Greater than 20 dead

LVPD has deemed there is no longer an active shooter but the radio feed appears to indicate suspicious issues at various spots that swat is responding to

Victims with gunshot wounds reported everywhere

Weapon used is unknown but suspected to be high caliber automatic or semi-automatic (using bump fire) weapon. Tons of speculation on the model. M4, AK, M16, etc all with high capacity mags. Its all speculation as of now

[raab]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

[Bub]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.
Don't they in Nevada? The right is making miracles as we type.

[raab]

Don't they in Nevada? The right is making miracles as we type.

They do, but these cowards shot at the crowd from one of the hotel rooms. Doesnt change the fact I want the ability to protect myself. It should be in the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms. Criminals of all sorts have more rights then hard working law abiding citizens. Enough is enough

[Bub]

They do, but these cowards shot at the crowd from one of the hotel rooms.
So the right to carry would not have helped one bit.
Doesnt change the fact I want the ability to protect myself.
From who? From the dudes shooting from the hotel rooms? Nothing and i mean nothing in this life would change if you had a gun in your pocket.
Criminals of all sorts have more rights then hard working law abiding citizens.
Not really.

Regardless, all this stuff is way off topic for this thread.

Good night!

[tri777]

Nothing and i mean nothing in this life would change
if you had a gun in your pocket.



Glass Half empty sorta dude I see..

[Bub]

Glass Half empty sorta dude I see..
these cowards shot at the crowd from one of the hotel rooms
Good night for real now.

[golferac]

0235 am

CONFIRMED: 20+ DEAD, 100+ INJURED.
Suspected Lone Male Suspect fired down upon concert goers at the Route 91 Festival
Engaged suspect on 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay Hotel. Suspect deceased
Ongoing investigation: Seeking his potential female companion

No motive as of now and the individual is a local resident
Several off-duty officers were at concert and may have passed away

[raab]

So the right to carry would not have helped one bit.

From who? From the dudes shooting from the hotel rooms? Nothing and i mean nothing in this life would change if you had a gun in your pocket.

Not really.

Regardless, all this stuff is way off topic for this thread.

Good night!

The right to self defence means if I end up getting shot at by one of these deranged lunatucs, i can shoot back. Will it be needed in every situation probably not, but that one time I need it itd be nice to have.

[Nester]

Las Vegas Strip shooting kills at least 50, wounds more than 200 at music festival

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-strip-shooting-kills-at-least-20-wounds-more-than-100-at-music-festival


:(

[Newview01]

At least the shooter is dead.

He was a known criminal apparently.

[58thecat]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

True but in this situation when your in a crowd, have no clue where the shooters are, they are out of pistol range, more than likely just pure chaos...another sad situation.

[play.soccer]

Oh boy here we go again

[lmtada]

I better turn on news. Everyday is a clusterf#%¥. God Bless.

[1899b]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

You wouldn't have defended against this. I just watched the CNN video. He was up in a hotel room 32 floors up. The hotels surround the bottom grounds area like a circle and he was going full auto on everyone down below. Good luck with your 9mm on that one. It was the perfect ambush. Absolutely sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvQbgn5Krr8

[Throttle_monkey1]

50+ dead 400 wounded. This is terrible

[normstad]

And here we go again.

Since 9/11, it has been white, non-muslim terrorists who have killed more people than any other group. Most of those committing those terrorist activities identify themselves with the extreme right.

Is it time to concentrate on those on the far right as much as those who are Muslim terrorists? Yeah, you bet it is. But just as the Muslim terrorists have their cheerleaders in their enclaves, so do these right wing nutbars and people are reluctant to call them out. I've looked through these pages and the support, tacit as it may be, that right wing extremists get amazes me.

My heart goes out to all victims of terror.

We got a taste of it in Edmonton yesterday. We are lucky that the Muslim terrorist did not kill anyone here. It was good to see many of the Muslim community denounce him at the rally at City Hall, and it was about time that happened. Too often that community is silent. It is time we stop supporting the alt-right and their nutbars by giving tacit support to them. That is not who we are, is it?

[JB_AOL]

Can we leave the gun/anti-gun bull**** out of here.. Save it for another thread.

Horrible cowardly act..

[bessiedog]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

This makes even less sense than the cries for gun control that are going to abound after this.


Could be the most ridiculous post pushing an agenda I have seen on this forum.


Man.....


We are a mass, interconnected population. This happens.

Not trying to downplay it... my condolences to the family and community.

[.257Weatherby]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

How does one defend themselves from an elevated position of 32 floors up against automatic
weapons fire while attending an open air concert attended by thousands???

Yeah open carry my hairy brown eye !

What a ......statement '' Weshould have the right to carry and defend ourselves..."
Yeah right .

God Bless the Men and Women of LE and a speed recovery to those who survived.

Rob

[Newview01]

How does one defend themselves from an elevated position of 32 floors up against automatic
weapons fire while attending an open air concert attended by thousands???

Yeah open carry my hairy brown eye !

What a ......statement '' Weshould have the right to carry and defend ourselves..."
Yeah right .

God Bless the Men and Women of LE and a speed recovery to those who survived.

Rob

Are you saying we should not have the right to carry?

[Newview01]

ISIS claims he was a soldier for them.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/islamic-state-claims-las-vegas-attack-says-shooter-141433433.html

Pretty unsubstantiated claim. But they also specifically threatened Las Vegas some time ago.

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/26/isis-video-threatens-san-francisco-shows-golden-gate-and-skyscraper/

[whiteout]

Are you saying we should not have the right to carry?

No one is saying we shouldn’t, but using this incident to try and justify it is simply ridiculous.

[Deo101]

Think this guy loaded up on Automatics and Ammunition the day of or day before from the local K Mart?

Not sure what the answer is. The very route seems to be mostly mental health issues, but I also don't think it should be so easy to get your hands on Automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo. Probably too far gone down south though....

Ammo and Gun sales are about to go through the roof again....

[Mangosteen]

BBC claims ISIS has claimed responsibility and that the guy converted to Islam recently.

Las Vegas shooting: Stephen Paddock kills over 50 people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

[Newview01]

Think this guy loaded up on Automatics and Ammunition the day of or day before from the local K Mart?

Not sure what the answer is. The very route seems to be mostly mental health issues, but I also don't think it should be so easy to get your hands on Automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo. Probably too far gone down south though....

Ammo and Gun sales are about to go through the roof again....

Contrary to popular belief, it is not easy to purchase automatic weapons legally. It is probably a lot easier / cheaper to convert something, or purchase something on the black market. Which is obviously illegal.

[whiteout]

Think this guy loaded up on Automatics and Ammunition the day of or day before from the local K Mart?

Not sure what the answer is. The very route seems to be mostly mental health issues, but I also don't think it should be so easy to get your hands on Automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo. Probably too far gone down south though....

Ammo and Gun sales are about to go through the roof again....

Lol at this.

Go read up on the requirements needed to get a select fire gun in the US, you don’t just wander into a gun store and grab an M-16.

[Newview01]

No one is saying we shouldn’t, but using this incident to try and justify it is simply ridiculous.

I agree 100%.

[Mangosteen]

And here we go again.

Since 9/11, it has been white, non-muslim terrorists who have killed more people than any other group. Most of those committing those terrorist activities identify themselves with the extreme right.

Is it time to concentrate on those on the far right as much as those who are Muslim terrorists? Yeah, you bet it is. But just as the Muslim terrorists have their cheerleaders in their enclaves, so do these right wing nutbars and people are reluctant to call them out. I've looked through these pages and the support, tacit as it may be, that right wing extremists get amazes me.

My heart goes out to all victims of terror.

We got a taste of it in Edmonton yesterday. We are lucky that the Muslim terrorist did not kill anyone here. It was good to see many of the Muslim community denounce him at the rally at City Hall, and it was about time that happened. Too often that community is silent. It is time we stop supporting the alt-right and their nutbars by giving tacit support to them. That is not who we are, is it?

Not quite. The guy converted to Islam and ISIS has claimed responsibility.

Las Vegas shooting: Stephen Paddock kills over 50 people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

[The Cook]

Wonder who trump will blame this one on?
RIP to all the victims.

[Okotokian]

Let's leave the politics and gun arguments out of this for just a little while, maybe the morning at least, and think of the victims and their families. My sons would have jumped to be at a Jason Aldean concert in Vegas.... Praying for everyone still alive to pull through.

[fitzy]

Not quite. The guy converted to Islam and ISIS has claimed responsibility.

Las Vegas shooting: Stephen Paddock kills over 50 people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

They also say in the same sentence ISIS has made unsubsatanciated claims in the past.

Why not wait until we know something before having this fight.

Terrible tragedy.

[Black Feather]

remove

[Twisted Canuck]

Let's leave the politics and gun arguments out of this for just a little while, maybe the morning at least, and think of the victims and their families. My sons would have jumped to be at a Jason Aldean concert in Vegas.... Praying for everyone still alive to pull through.

Agree OKO, it's not the time to make political pro-gun anti-gun hay out of this tragedy. The discussion would be much better served in the realm of health care for those with mental illness. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families. TC

[Deo101]

BBC claims ISIS has claimed responsibility and that the guy converted to Islam recently.

Las Vegas shooting: Stephen Paddock kills over 50 people
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

Quick read and sounds pretty similar to our process to obtain a restricted firearm....Truth should unfold and I'll stop further speculation.

Prayers with the Families. Sad Day.

[normstad]

Where do you get the idea from that this attack was carried out by an extreme right-winger? Considering we have no solid information of his political leanings, the only thing we know is that his skin is white, which could mean he is just as likely a radical leftist (more probable I'd argue) who shot up an entire stadium full of country music lovers who are generally middle class, 2nd amendment abiding, white trump supporters? It doesn't follow that an extreme "right winger" would be targeting that audience.

Also, to imply that islamic terrorism is comparable with far-right extremists is completely disingenuous and silly. The amount of one off nut jobs who identify as far right who have killed people on American soil (not to mention many of the mass shooters are actually left leaning or registered democrats) compared to the hundreds of thousands dead in islamic terror attacks is ridiculous to try and equate.

In the last 30 days alone there have been 29 Islamic attacks in 20 countries, in which 791 people were killed and 669 injured. Apples to oranges.

What we do know that he was an accountant, with enough money to be retired and enjoy the rest of his life. How? From his brother. And his brother said he had no idea what set him off. I agree, too early, and I jumped to conclusions just like others have. That being said, my comments about tacit support for alt-right extremists are relevant, but that doesn't mean this nutbar was one.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Here's a link with some gruesome photos.

http://www.gettyimages.ca/search/2/image?artist=david%20becker&excludenudity=true&family=editorial&sort=best

[raab]

True but in this situation when your in a crowd, have no clue where the shooters are, they are out of pistol range, more than likely just pure chaos...another sad situation.

It was pure chaos from the video I seen. But this isn't the only incident, its one of many and there seems to be an increase recently. Look at the situation in Edmonton where the guys are running as a police officer is stabbed. You think they run as quick if they have a gun and know how to use it? All Im saying is criminals dont care about the laws. So we should change the laws so that citizens can protect themselves.

[243 wild cat]

The right to self defence means if I end up getting shot at by one of these deranged lunatucs, i can shoot back. Will it be needed in every situation probably not, but that one time I need it itd be nice to have.

Nailed it!! All we ask for is the right to DEFEND OURSELVES when needed. If you think that having that right is insane with the times we live in then keep that good luck rolling with a situations that may occur in your future. So leave the gun/anti-gun bull**** out of here.. Save it for another thread. I suppose having the right to carry BEAR SPAY for defence when enjoying the outdoors is LUDICROUS to you people too.:snapoutofit: Just a rant but it gets old trying to have people tell me it wouldn't change a thing to carry let me find out hope i dont need too. :sign0176:

[243 wild cat]

It was pure chaos from the video I seen. But this isn't the only incident, it one of many and there see,ms to be an increase rcently. Look at the situation in Edmonton where the guys are running as a police officer is stabbed. You think they run as quick if they have a gun and know how to use it? All Im saying is criminals dont care about the laws. So we should change the laws so that citizens can protect themselves.

Well said raab well said! X2

[Ken07AOVette]

No one is saying we shouldn’t, but using this incident to try and justify it is simply ridiculous.

Lots of people say we shouldn't. The screening process is nowhere near what it has to be.

[Ken07AOVette]

It was pure chaos from the video I seen. But this isn't the only incident, it one of many and there see,ms to be an increase rcently. Look at the situation in Edmonton where the guys are running as a police officer is stabbed. You think they run as quick if they have a gun and know how to use it? All Im saying is criminals dont care about the laws. So we should change the laws so that citizens can protect themselves.

Not everyone would run from a knife. Having a 380 in your purse doesn't make you a LEO.

[raab]

No one is saying we shouldn’t, but using this incident to try and justify it is simply ridiculous.

This is just one of the many incidents that have been becoming more prolific recently. Im sick of seeing the general population getting shot down with no means to defend themselves. The cops have proven they can't defend us, so let arm the citizens. Enough is enough.

[JB_AOL]

This is just one of the many incidents that have been becoming more prolific recently. Im sick of seeing the general population getting shot down with no means to defend themselves. The cops have proven they can't defend us, so let arm the citizens. Enough is enough.

FFS Raab (and others).. Have some respect.. Shut up with your pro-gun crap in this thread. Pushing your own agenda after an incident like this shows the type of person/people you are..

It would not have changed the outcome of this incident. END OF STORY.

[raab]

Not everyone would run from a knife. Having a 380 in your purse doesn't make you a LEO.

So your saying the cops have proven they can protect from these mass shootings? When the cops get things back under control I'll give up the open carry as it wont be needed. Until then I say citizens should be able to defend themselves.

[whiteout]

This is just one of the many incidents that have been becoming more prolific recently. Im sick of seeing the general population getting shot down with no means to defend themselves. The cops have proven they can't defend us, so let arm the citizens. Enough is enough.

Nevada is a shall-issue state. There is no way someone carrying would have made an impact on this incident, unless you think Joe Blow citizen with his Glock 26 was going to run across the road to Mandalay Bay and clear a few hundred rooms between the first shot and the police arriving.

Trying to use it to advocate for CCW in Canada is even sillier. I’m all for CCW, but if you’re going to promote it, use examples from Canada where it would have made a difference.

[1899b]

So your saying the cops have proven they can protect from these mass shootings? When the cops get things back under control I'll give up the open carry as it wont be needed. Until then I say citizens should be able to defend themselves.

Given the situation and how this ambush was set up open carry would not have made a difference. You couldnt defend this with an open carry permit.

[raab]

Given the situation and how this ambush was set up open carry would not have made a difference. You couldnt defend this with an open carry permit.

This isnt the only incident. These things are happening more and more and I'm sick of it. This is about France, London, Belgium, Florida, California, Edmonton, and now Las Vegas.

Im so ****ed off right now, that could have easily been me in that crowd or on Jasper Ave yesterday or one of my friends. Im a huge country music fan, and was thinking of going down for the NFR next year. Now I'm not so sure.

[Ken07AOVette]

So your saying the cops have proven they can protect from these mass shootings? When the cops get things back under control I'll give up the open carry as it wont be needed. Until then I say citizens should be able to defend themselves.

Nobody can protect us from a high rise shooting. No matter how many Glocks you have hidden in every crevice of your body you will not take out a shooter on the 35th floor.

You can defend yourself. Just not with a handgun 24/7 in public. Or a hand grenade. Or a rocket launcher.

If you are so gung-ho about making a difference JOIN THE RCMP

[bat119]

He was an addicted gambler that may have lost ten's of thousands in the days previous to the incident. Chuck Norris couldn't have picked him off in the 32nd floor window with a handgun CCW wouldn't have made a difference.

[243 wild cat]

Nevada is a shall-issue state. There is no way someone carrying would have made an impact on this incident, unless you think Joe Blow citizen with his Glock 26 was going to run across the road to Mandalay Bay and clear a few hundred rooms between the first shot and the police arriving.

Trying to use it to advocate for CCW in Canada is even sillier. I’m all for CCW, but if you’re going to promote it, use examples from Canada where it would have made a difference.

OMG!! 'How about a little horrible story of a LUNATIC NUT JOB cutting the head off a innocent man travelling on a bus minding his own business in front of people with nothing but a voice to keep them alive! :snapoutofit: Good luck with that thought :angry3: There will always be a time and place it makes a DIFFERENCE!! with violence in are society... whiteout.

[Mangosteen]

It's pretty silly to suggest in this particular case someone could have returned fire. And what? Hit innocent people in the nearby rooms?
Too far away unless you have correct gear.

Some stupid reporter asked the Sheriff the question if the police shot back.

Obviously no clue about trajectory.

[Bergerboy]

In some of the pictures it shows 2 broken widows at the Mandalay Bay. Did he have 2 rooms to shoot from? They are quite a distance apart.

[Scott h]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

They do. That's who's doing it......

[raab]

Nobody can protect us from a high rise shooting. No matter how many Glocks you have hidden in every crevice of your body you will not take out a shooter on the 35th floor.

You can defend yourself. Just not with a handgun 24/7 in public. Or a hand grenade. Or a rocket launcher.

If you are so gung-ho about making a difference JOIN THE RCMP

Not without going to jail, and having huge legal bills. The right to self defence isn't much to ask. I not talking about making a difference, everyday like the RCMP and EPS. Im talking about being able to protect myself, my home, and my family and not having to go to jail because I used a gun to do it. Not much to ask in a world where the police can't keep up.

[1899b]

Nobody can protect us from a high rise shooting. No matter how many Glocks you have hidden in every crevice of your body you will not take out a shooter on the 35th floor.

You can defend yourself. Just not with a handgun 24/7 in public. Or a hand grenade. Or a rocket launcher.

If you are so gung-ho about making a difference JOIN THE RCMP

I hear what you are saying but I think what he means is that it's high time we are able to make bad people think at least for even a second that the good guys might be armed whenever evil wants to wreak havoc. I don't think he is talking about "making a difference" in society, more so about common citizens being able to always protect themselves no matter the situation. I would hate to see our RCMP ever have to handle something like this. My childhood buddy is an RCMP officer. His first cousin is/was Leo Johnston. We all know how that turned out.

[raab]

It's pretty silly to suggest in this particular case someone could have returned fire. And what? Hit innocent people in the nearby rooms?
Too far away unless you have correct gear.

Some stupid reporter asked the Sheriff the question if the police shot back.

Obviously no clue about trajectory.

No one was returning fire in this case. The whole point is there's been an increase in these types of shooting. We need the right to protect ourselves if we can.

In saying that God bless the people of Las Vegas. Thoughts and Prayers to the families of all effected.

[Scott h]

It was pure chaos from the video I seen. But this isn't the only incident, its one of many and there seems to be an increase recently. Look at the situation in Edmonton where the guys are running as a police officer is stabbed. You think they run as quick if they have a gun and know how to use it? All Im saying is criminals dont care about the laws. So we should change the laws so that citizens can protect themselves.

So you would rather have exchange the problems that we have with violent crime in Canada for the violent crime in the good 'ol US of A ........:thinking-006:

[Ken07AOVette]

Not without going to jail, and having huge legal bills. The right to self defence isn't much to ask. I not talking about making a difference, everyday like the RCMP and EPS. Im talking about being able to protect myself, my home, and my family and not having to go to jail because I used a gun to do it. Not much to ask in a world where the police can't keep up.

Agreed.

[fitzy]

No one was returning fire in this case. The whole point is there's been an increase in these types of shooting. We need the right to protect ourselves if we can.

In saying that God bless the people of Las Vegas. Thoughts and Prayers to the families of all effected.

9 posts before an ounce of compassion... very classy. Hardly pushing an agenda at all.

Give it a rest. We know the soap box routine by heart.

You have every right in the world to defend yourself. You don't need a pistol to do it.

If you want so badly to carry. Join and serve. Make a difference we will respect that immensely.

Found out a friend of mine daughter was there. She's fine. Scared. Heard shots and they got out don't know much more than that.

I hope that nobody here is connected to anyone hurt down there. It's heart breaking.

[wags]

In some of the pictures it shows 2 broken widows at the Mandalay Bay. Did he have 2 rooms to shoot from? They are quite a distance apart.

In one of the articles it said he may have had side by side rooms, or a suite, but was running back and forth between the two windows to shoot.

Cheers

[Albertadiver]

Sickening.

My assistant at work is sitting here, waiting to hear about the status of her friend from Okotoks. Nobody has heard from her since it happened, and are desperate to find out if she is ok. Her husband was with her and they were separated in the chaos. I can't imagine how he feels. 58 killed and over 500 injured.

Just horrible.

[whiteout]

No one was returning fire in this case. The whole point is there's been an increase in these types of shooting. We need the right to protect ourselves if we can.

In saying that God bless the people of Las Vegas. Thoughts and Prayers to the families of all effected.

Why are you using a crime that was committed in the US to try and support an argument for CCW in Canada?

All the stats I have seen show that violent crime is decreasing in Canada, not increasing and there has been no spike in incidents where lethal intervention by a civilian would be justified. Unless you have another set of stats?

[raab]

Why are you using a crime that was committed in the US to try and support an argument for CCW in Canada?

All the stats I have seen show that violent crime is decreasing in Canada, not increasing and there has been no spike in incidents where lethal intervention by a civilian would be justified. Unless you have another set of stats?

Its not just the US, we had Edmonton the night before. Sick of seeing this crap. We have open the borders now with many illegal immigrants coming up from the states who have criminal backgrounds. Violent crime is going to go up with whats going on. Im not leaving Canada and the world to my children like this. Its needs to be better, we need to be better.

[raab]

Does anyone know how far the hotel was from the concert and how long this shooting took place? Seems like a lot of people for 1 untrained guy to take down in a short period of time.

[RBI]

Does anyone know how far the hotel was from the concert and how long this shooting took place? Seems like a lot of people for 1 untrained guy to take down in a short period of time.

a report I saw earlier stated 400 yds

[Scott h]

Its not just the US, we had Edmonton the night before. Sick of seeing this crap. We have open the borders now with many illegal immigrants coming up from the states who have criminal backgrounds. Violent crime is going to go up with whats going on. Im not leaving Canada and the world to my children like this. Its needs to be better, we need to be better.

You are more worried about illegal immigrants when some local white terrorist just killed over 50 people and wounded over 500 more with legal weapons???? Are crazy????

[1Heavyhitr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-otJ1LJGzcc&t=83
Explanation of what happened.

My heart goes out to those affected. Seriously sick :(.. We are going to have to stand up for our rights more than ever People. If youre not a part of a gun Activist group Like the NFA, CCFR, etc. Might be a good time to join. Just something to think about..

[Bergerboy]

Does anyone know how far the hotel was from the concert and how long this shooting took place? Seems like a lot of people for 1 untrained guy to take down in a short period of time.

If you go on Google maps and measure the distance from where the broken window was on the Mandalay bay and trace it to the concert site, its 350m.

[1stLand]

I dont think he was the Real Shooter.

Doesnt make sense. Why would a retired accountant with no criminal past do something like this. By all accounts he was not a Gun person.

[Newview01]

You are more worried about illegal immigrants when some local white terrorist just killed over 50 people and wounded over 500 more with legal weapons???? Are crazy????

Were they legal?

Was the automatic weapon he used purchased legally?

Here is an idea. Let’s make it illegal to murder. That will put an end to the problem.

And maybe properly punish those who break the law.

[NCC]

According to Fox News it took police about 20 minutes to get to the room the shooter was in. armed with a belt fed fully automatic rifle shooting into a crowd of 20 000 people, I'm surprised more people weren't killed. From the audio I listened to, the continuous fire sounded like a war movie.

There was a young lady from Alberta killed; she was down there getting married. Let's forget about the gun laws for a day or two and think about the victim, her pre-teen children, and what causes people to do this sort of thing.

[whiteout]

Its not just the US, we had Edmonton the night before. Sick of seeing this crap. We have open the borders now with many illegal immigrants coming up from the states who have criminal backgrounds. Violent crime is going to go up with whats going on. Im not leaving Canada and the world to my children like this. Its needs to be better, we need to be better.

You specifically said these types of crimes are occuring with a heightened frequency and need the ability to protect ourselves, its the basis for your argument for CCW in Canada. Which there is no evidence of.

Occurrences like Edmonton are not commonplace either and the odds of an armed bystander being able to act in the few seconds while the officer was being stabbed would probably be pretty low. They couldn’t have shot him while he was running away and certainly couldn’t shoot at the truck

[agentsmith]

Does anyone know how far the hotel was from the concert and how long this shooting took place? Seems like a lot of people for 1 untrained guy to take down in a short period of time.Roughly 400-500 yards, depending on where in the crowd he was aiming. Or rather not aiming, it seems he was just spraying bullets.

I know someone who said it must have taken "extremely high powered" weapons to shoot that far, and had to explain even a .22 can lob bullets that far from 32 floors up, especially if you're not trying to hit a specific target.

[Newview01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-otJ1LJGzcc&t=83
Explanation of what happened.

My heart goes out to those affected. Seriously sick :(.. We are going to have to stand up for our rights more than ever People. If youre not a part of a gun Activist group Like the NFA, CCFR, etc. Might be a good time to join. Just something to think about..

interesting how many are questioning the location of the shooter.

[bat119]

Does anyone know how far the hotel was from the concert and how long this shooting took place? Seems like a lot of people for 1 untrained guy to take down in a short period of time.

How much training do you need firing a belt fed machine gun into a crowd of 22,000 people?

[beansgunsghandi]

Terrible for so many people there, sympathy and support to them. Awful.

But some on here want to use that tragedy to argue for open carry, and more use of firearms for "self defence?" Seriously? If we made open or CCW legal here and handguns were everywhere along with mass numbers of automatic weapons then we could be just like the USA today. The Canadian version of the USA attack is terrible (messed up immigrant with vehicles and a knife as his weapons in Edmonton), but the damage is less than one percent. That difference is not an accident. There have been more than 150 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Yet the solution is more guns pointed at people somehow?

Keep looking south if you want to, but Canada is an awesome country due to some decisions that have been made about guns and life here. I can live and work in either country and have, but I really value what we have here in Canada. Less gun control isn't going to make it better here. More education, opportunity and solid Canadian values like helping strangers get their trucks unstuck in winter will keep Canada going well.

May Canada be Canada, we've got it good here. Turn on your TV to see where making guns the solution leads.

[agentsmith]

I dont think he was the Real Shooter.

Doesnt make sense. Why would a retired accountant with no criminal past do something like this. By all accounts he was not a Gun person.Here we go with the "false flag" conspiracy theories. Go check out InfoWars, he's got you covered.

[fitzy]

Terrible for so many people there, sympathy and support to them. Awful.

But some on here want to use that tragedy to argue for open carry, and more use of firearms for "self defence?" Seriously? If we made open or CCW legal here and handguns were everywhere along with mass numbers of automatic weapons then we could be just like the USA today. The Canadian version of the USA attack is terrible (messed up immigrant with vehicles and a knife as his weapons in Edmonton), but the damage is less than one percent. That difference is not an accident. There have been more than 150 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Yet the solution is more guns pointed at people somehow?

Keep looking south if you want to, but Canada is an awesome country due to some decisions that have been made about guns and life here. I can live and work in either country and have, but I really value what we have here in Canada. Less gun control isn't going to make it better here. More education, opportunity and solid Canadian values like helping strangers get their trucks unstuck in winter will keep Canada going well.

May Canada be Canada, we've got it good here. Turn on your TV to see where making guns the solution leads.

Good post.

[1stLand]

The fact that the shooter chose this event - a Country Music Concert - to launch his attack:

"These were patriotic, God-fearing Americans. This group is pro-Second amendment, pro-Constitution and anti-NWO."

[raab]

You are more worried about illegal immigrants when some local white terrorist just killed over 50 people and wounded over 500 more with legal weapons???? Are crazy????

Has anything come out saying they were legal? Ive seen the video sounds like a fully automatic weapon which is ILLEGAL to have. Unless he was planning the attack since 1986 or you think he bumped fired the rifle from 400 yards away and was able to hit 500 people and kill 50 of them. Other thing he might have done is buy an AK and put a slide fire stock on it. But that would take time and planning.

[Scott h]

Were they legal?

Was the automatic weapon he used purchased legally?

Here is an idea. Let’s make it illegal to murder. That will put an end to the problem.

And maybe properly punish those who break the law.

Do you not realize murder is illegal ??????

[Scott h]

Has anything come out saying they were legal? Ive seen the video sounds like a fully automatic weapon which is ILLEGAL to have. Unless he was planning the attack since 1986 or you think he bumped fired the rifle from 400 yards away and was able to hit 500 people and kill 50 of them. Other thing he might have done is buy an AK and put a slide fire stock on it. But that would take time and planning.

I don't know whether his firearms were fully automatic or not but I believe Nevada may be one of those places were you can own a full automatic :thinking-006:

[bat119]

I dont think he was the Real Shooter.

Doesnt make sense. Why would a retired accountant with no criminal past do something like this. By all accounts he was not a Gun person.

He may have lost 10's of thousands of dollars gambling in the days before the shooting, sore loser?

[Scott h]

The fact that the shooter chose this event - a Country Music Concert - to launch his attack:

"These were patriotic, God-fearing Americans. This group is pro-Second amendment, pro-Constitution and anti-NWO."

Ironic to say the least....

[raab]

How much training do you need firing a belt fed machine gun into a crowd of 22,000 people?

It wasnt a belt fed machine gun, you can hear the breaks as he reloads. If it was a full auto gun Im guessing it was a Browning Bar M1918 in .30-06. I dont think he was using surplus military bullets, as the FMJ .223 bullets should not have caused so many casualties at 400 yards. Maybe surplus .308 bullets, but even then I'm skeptical.

[raab]

I don't know whether his firearms were fully automatic or not but I believe Nevada may be one of those places were you can own a full automatic :thinking-006:

Its illegal for individuals to own a fully automatic gun in ANY STATE in the US, unless it was registered prior to 1986.

[Scott h]

Terrible for so many people there, sympathy and support to them. Awful.

But some on here want to use that tragedy to argue for open carry, and more use of firearms for "self defence?" Seriously? If we made open or CCW legal here and handguns were everywhere along with mass numbers of automatic weapons then we could be just like the USA today. The Canadian version of the USA attack is terrible (messed up immigrant with vehicles and a knife as his weapons in Edmonton), but the damage is less than one percent. That difference is not an accident. There have been more than 150 mass shootings in the US this year alone. Yet the solution is more guns pointed at people somehow?

Keep looking south if you want to, but Canada is an awesome country due to some decisions that have been made about guns and life here. I can live and work in either country and have, but I really value what we have here in Canada. Less gun control isn't going to make it better here. More education, opportunity and solid Canadian values like helping strangers get their trucks unstuck in winter will keep Canada going well.

May Canada be Canada, we've got it good here. Turn on your TV to see where making guns the solution leads.

Very good post. Canada may not be perfect but we are a lot better off than our neighbors to the south (were you have just as good of chance of being shot and killed as you do of being killed in a car accident).

[CBintheNorth]

According to Fox News it took police about 20 minutes to get to the room the shooter was in. armed with a belt fed fully automatic rifle shooting into a crowd of 20 000 people, I'm surprised more people weren't killed. From the audio I listened to, the continuous fire sounded like a war movie.

There was a young lady from Alberta killed; she was down there getting married. Let's forget about the gun laws for a day or two and think about the victim, her pre-teen children, and what causes people to do this sort of thing.

Agreed.
There will be more than just her reported locally unfortunately. Waiting to hear on the condition of a local guy hit by a bullet and in hospital right now. Very, very sad.

You guys need to grow up and look at the whole event. Even if every person in that concert had a loaded rifle or handgun on them, this still would have unfolded the same. What would help is stiffer penalties for those caught breaking the law, and less tolerance for those that would do us harm.

And for the record, I'm pro CCW.

[raab]

Very good post. Canada may not be perfect but we are a lot better off than our neighbors to the south (were you have just as good of chance of being shot and killed as you do of being killed in a car accident).

You do know that over 60% of gun deaths are suicides correct? Then you look at the statistics for gun violence in low income neighborhoods vs middle class and the numbers really start to hit home.

Want to fix gun violence in the States get people out of poverty and address mental health problems. In Switzerland they used to have a fully automatic weapon in every home. They didn't have half the problems the States have.

[darren32]

Very sad. My sister, brother in law and their family live in Las Vegas. They are all fine but two of my sisters students were shot (UNLV). Really tragic.

[raab]

Agreed.
There will be more than just her reported locally unfortunately. Waiting to hear on the condition of a local guy hit by a bullet and in hospital right now. Very, very sad.

You guys need to grow up and look at the whole event. Even if every person in that concert had a loaded rifle or handgun on them, this still would have unfolded the same. What would help is stiffer penalties for those caught breaking the law, and less tolerance for those that would do us harm.

And for the record, I'm pro CCW.

For the record Im not using this single event to appeal for the right to carry. Im using all the incidents that have happened over the past 2 years. Things seem to be getting worse, and theres no way for the cops to be everywhere at once.

[bat119]

Interesting the shooters father was a bank robber on the FBI's most wanted list in 1969 maybe the firearms were hand me downs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-shooting-suspect-identified-n806471

[fitzy]

For the record Im not using this single event to appeal for the right to carry. Im using all the incidents that have happened over the past 2 years. Things seem to be getting worse, and theres no way for the cops to be everywhere at once.

Post#4
We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

I'd disagree and say you're using this tragedy as a soap box.

Why not start your own thread about it?

[CBintheNorth]

Post#4
We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

I'd disagree and say you're using this tragedy as a soap box.

Why not start your own thread about it?

Exactly. Thank you.

This forum needs another CCW thread. Maybe this time the liberals will read it and change their minds.:rolleye2:

[243 wild cat]

You specifically said these types of crimes are occuring with a heightened frequency and need the ability to protect ourselves, its the basis for your argument for CCW in Canada. Which there is no evidence of.

Occurrences like Edmonton are not commonplace either and the odds of an armed bystander being able to act in the few seconds while the officer was being stabbed would probably be pretty low. They couldn’t have shot him while he was running away and certainly couldn’t shoot at the truck

'How about a little horrible story of a LUNATIC NUT JOB cutting the head off a innocent man travelling on a bus minding his own business in front of people with nothing but a voice to keep them alive! Good luck with that thought.:mad0030: There will always be a time and place it makes a DIFFERENCE!! for CCW with violence in are society... whiteout. :mad0100:

[243 wild cat]

For the record Im not using this single event to appeal for the right to carry. Im using all the incidents that have happened over the past 2 years. Things seem to be getting worse, and theres no way for the cops to be everywhere at once.

We hear you raab let them have there own right to carry a hug or sweet talk for a killer to not harm them or kill some love one. :love0025:

[RavYak]

The US have the softest gun laws of any similarly developed nation and they continue to prove year after year it is a serious issue. They have over 4 times as many gun related homicides then any of these other nations and events like this are common place...

More guns is not the answer...

[bobalong]

The US have the softest gun laws of any similarly developed nation and they continue to prove year after year it is a serious issue. They have over 4 times as many gun related homicides then any of these other nations and events like this are common place...

More guns is not the answer...

Take your anti-gun garbage over to your sewing site. Just because you are afraid of guns and it appears any kind of conflict what so ever does not mean everyone is........THIS IS AN OUTDOOR SITE.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The US have the softest gun laws of any similarly developed nation and they continue to prove year after year it is a serious issue. They have over 4 times as many gun related homicides then any of these other nations and events like this are common place...

More guns is not the answer...

Where in the US? California's gun laws are tougher than Canada's. Gun laws vary by state. Canada doesn't collect biometric data like many states do.

They have a gun/crime culture issue in the US and they have a much larger population. The gun laws being tougher doesn't change these things from happening.

LC

[elk396]

Take your anti-gun garbage over to your sewing site. Just because you are afraid of guns and it appears any kind of conflict what so ever does not mean everyone is........THIS IS AN OUTDOOR SITE.

I agree with the right to carry, but fully auto machine guns is ridiculous. There's way to many nut jobs out there. Scary world we live in. There's not even close to enough health care people to even put a dent in the amount of mental disease in todays world. The only way to minimize this crap is assault weapons ban. You might get a few with your hunting rifle, but a fully auto, I'm shocked there aren't 100's more dead.

[elk396]

Where in the US? California's gun laws are tougher than Canada's. Gun laws vary by state. Canada doesn't collect biometric data like many states do.

They have a gun/crime culture issue in the US and they have a much larger population. The gun laws being tougher doesn't change these things from happening.

LC

So you live in Arizona, own a .50 cal, head to California with it in your trunk and light up the place, so, yes, tougher gun laws would prevent this. If you were allowed fully auto assault weapons over in Europe.can you imagine what would have happened there by now? My God.... They need to get that crap off the streets. Hunting is one thing, but punching paper with an UZI? Do you really need to do that?

[Newview01]

So you live in Arizona, own a .50 cal, head to California with it in your trunk and light up the place, so, yes, tougher gun laws would prevent this. If you were allowed fully auto assault weapons over in Europe.can you imagine what would have happened there by now? My God.... They need to get that crap off the streets. Hunting is one thing, but punching paper with an UZI? Do you really need to do that?

Do you really need 450 hp in your sedan?

The most pathetic argument. Do you need to punch paper at all? What purpose do firearms serve in todays society?

There is no successful argument for gun control.

The entire conversation needs to shift from controlling an inanimate object to helping the mentally ill.

[Newview01]

The US have the softest gun laws of any similarly developed nation and they continue to prove year after year it is a serious issue. They have over 4 times as many gun related homicides then any of these other nations and events like this are common place...

More guns is not the answer...

So where do we start?

[tri777]

"..some on here want to use that tragedy to argue for open carry, and
more use of firearms for "self defence?" Seriously? If we made open or
CCW legal here and handguns were everywhere along with mass
numbers of automatic weapons.."..Canada is an awesome country..
due to decisions.. made about guns.."

"..You have every right in the world to defend yourself.
You don't need a pistol to do it.."


OK,
Here exactly @3:57 and 5:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxNi8pAI8Ig

Is what i am talking about concerning CCW.
Carrying in this moment , "NO ONE" knows how this is about to unfold.
It is in this moment i would be thinking "odds getting good someone is going to come walking
onto the music grounds, around this corner, and be blasting away
into this very building in movie theatre fashion like couple years ago.
My hand in this moment would be on the ready & finger still off
trigger & safety still locked!

This & These moments are where a CCW would of been a heroric saver,
if it unfolded like that..i am not talking about emptying my clip in
brainless fashion in some wild 100+yrd mental rage !

[covey ridge]

FFS Raab (and others).. Have some respect.. Shut up with your pro-gun crap in this thread. Pushing your own agenda after an incident like this shows the type of person/people you are..

It would not have changed the outcome of this incident. END OF STORY.

I agree^^^
This is a time for the pro gun people to live up to their talking points that such incidents are not about guns but about people. You know the saying "guns don't kill...people kill"

At present it has not been revealed what the motive might have been. President Trump might have said something that I actually respect when he blamed pure evil.

This is not a time when we should be talking about 2nd amendment, gun control or CC. This is a time we should be grieving about the tragic loss to not only the USA but the entire world. Our hearts should go out to all who suffer loss, and we should be grateful to those who are helping at ground zero.

[Newview01]

I agree^^^
This is a time for the pro gun people to live up to their talking points that such incidents are not about guns but about people. You know the saying "guns don't kill...people kill"

At present it has not been revealed what the motive might have been. President Trump might have said something that I actually respect when he blamed pure evil.

This is not a time when we should be talking about 2nd amendment, gun control or CC. This is a time we should be grieving about the tragic loss to not only the USA but the entire world. Our hearts should go out to all who suffer loss, and we should be grateful to those who are helping at ground zero.

FWIW, it was and is the left in general who is shouting the loudest about gun control.

[fitzy]

OK,
Here exactly @3:57 and 5:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxNi8pAI8Ig

Is what i am talking about concerning CCW.
Carrying in this moment , "NO ONE" knows how this is about to unfold.
It is in this moment i would be thinking "odds getting good someone is going to come walking
onto the music grounds, around this corner, and be blasting away
into this very building in movie theatre fashion like couple years ago.
My hand in this moment would be on the ready & finger still off
trigger & safety still locked!

This & These moments are where a CCW would of been a heroric saver,
if it unfolded like that..i am not talking about emptying my clip in
brainless fashion in some wild 100+yrd mental rage !

Ok for the same of argument say you have the training and mental capacity to behave like you think you will.

What about the 22 year old kid across the room who panics when that door opens and opens fire on innocent people. He is trying to save his life.

What's your next move? You don't know him. He could be with the bad guys.

You're carrying. It's a simple matter. You shoot him and stop the problem.

Neither if you is carrying no problem.

Circular arguments and theoretical discussions get us nowhere.


Can't imagine what those people went through.
Let's take this off the table. Obviously getting nowhere here. Same discussion on both sides as a hundred other threads.

[tirebob]

Do you really need 450 hp in your sedan?

The most pathetic argument. Do you need to punch paper at all? What purpose do firearms serve in todays society?

There is no successful argument for gun control.

The entire conversation needs to shift from controlling an inanimate object to helping the mentally ill.
Even though we do not often agree on the entire political spectrum, on this argument I am with you 100%!!! The issue isn't the gun... The issue is the metal stability of those with access to guns. Helping the mentally ill will go way further to reducing gun homicides (and all homicides for that matter) than gun control can have any hope of achieving!

[raab]

I agree with the right to carry, but fully auto machine guns is ridiculous. There's way to many nut jobs out there. Scary world we live in. There's not even close to enough health care people to even put a dent in the amount of mental disease in todays world. The only way to minimize this crap is assault weapons ban. You might get a few with your hunting rifle, but a fully auto, I'm shocked there aren't 100's more dead.

Full auto is already banned and illegal in ALL states. Amazing the law didnt stop the shooter.

[raab]

So you live in Arizona, own a .50 cal, head to California with it in your trunk and light up the place, so, yes, tougher gun laws would prevent this. If you were allowed fully auto assault weapons over in Europe.can you imagine what would have happened there by now? My God.... They need to get that crap off the streets. Hunting is one thing, but punching paper with an UZI? Do you really need to do that?

Every person in the Swiss Reserves is issued a Full Auto Rifle they're required to keep in their homes incase of emergency. One of the safest places in the world.

[Scottmisfits]

Every person in the Swiss Reserves is issued a Full Auto Rifle they're required to keep in their homes incase of emergency. One of the safest places in the world.

However, with the exception of a select few people, no ammunition is to be stored at your house. That turns that firearm in to a glorified baseball bat until you go to the range or you take home your ammunition illegally.

[raab]

However, with the exception of a select few people, no ammunition is to be stored at your house. That turns that firearm in to a glorified baseball bat until you go to the range or you take home your ammunition illegally.

They only changed that a few years ago though. Used to have 50 rounds of ammo in the homes.

[Scottmisfits]

Yes. It just shows that even the countries with the most free gun control are tightening up.

[Scott h]

Isn't the definition of stupid doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

[raab]

Isn't the definition of stupid doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

So why are we looking at giving up rights? Thats what we always do more regulation. Well this guy had a fully automatic which isnt legal. Surprise surprise regulations dont stop people from breaking the law.

[Ken07AOVette]

As far as I can read, this thread is simply about a tragic shooting in LV.

What about moving the carry talk to another thread and get this one back on the tracks?

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?p=3634714#post3634714

[Albertadiver]

My assistant's friend is still missing as of 3:30pm today.

Lot's of families going through huge worry still.

[fitzy]

My assistant's friend is still missing as of 3:30pm today.

Lot's of families going through huge worry still.

Hope everything works out for them.

[Newview01]

good luck with that conversation, that ship has sailed you goof, in the mean time we will keep cleaning up the book soaked pavement at mandalay bay and wait for the next Stephen Paddock, because the world is full of em.

If there are no guns, they will use something else.

It is foolish to blame something that can be substituted. A Mack truck plowing through that crowd could have killed a lot more.

The level of gun control desired is directly linked to the amount of common sense one possesses.

[raab]

My assistant's friend is still missing as of 3:30pm today.

Lot's of families going through huge worry still.

Prayers for the family. Hopefully shes found safe.

Still dont understand this shooting at all. Just makes me sick to my stomach the amount of hurt and pain one person could inflict.

[elkhunter11]

If there are no guns, they will use something else.

It is foolish to blame something that can be substituted. A Mack truck plowing through that crowd could have killed a lot more.

The level of gun control desired is directly linked to the amount of common sense one possesses.

168 people were killed in Oklahoma City, no firearms required.

[CBintheNorth]

As far as I can read, this thread is simply about a tragic shooting in LV.

What about moving the carry talk to another thread and get this one back on the tracks?

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?p=3634714#post3634714

For people who skipped page 4.

[vcmm]

IBTL Boy do we look like a bunch of responsible adults on this thread:thinking-006:

[Scott h]

My assistant's friend is still missing as of 3:30pm today.

Lot's of families going through huge worry still.

Hopefully she's only missing in what must unbelievable confusion. After working in ER's for 27 years I can't even imagine what the chaos would have been like with that many people injured at one time.

[CBintheNorth]

Among all the others, Ryan could use a prayer. He is an outdoorsman, a great guy, and like all the others, didn't deserve this.

http://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/saskatchewan-man-seriously-injured-in-las-vegas-shooting-1.3615365

[Albertadiver]

Among all the others, Ryan could use a prayer. He is an outdoorsman, a great guy, and like all the others, didn't deserve this.

http://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/saskatchewan-man-seriously-injured-in-las-vegas-shooting-1.3615365

Sadly, there's more than 500 of these stories. Horrible.

[slopeshunter]

Full auto is already banned and illegal in ALL states. Amazing the law didnt stop the shooter.

Pretty sure I heard on one of the news channels that the law which prevented purchase of full auto expired in around 2004 in Nevada and was not renewed. So that as of that date you could purchase full auto in Nevada the only requirement being that the firearm is registered. Also said that of all states Nevada is one of the softest on gun laws.

When you listen to the video there’s no way that could be bump firing (IMO).

[CBintheNorth]

Pretty sure I heard on one of the news channels that the law which prevented purchase of full auto expired in around 2004 in Nevada and was not renewed. So that as of that date you could purchase full auto in Nevada the only requirement being that the firearm is registered. Also said that of all states Nevada is one of the softest on gun laws.

When you listen to the video there’s no way that could be bump firing (IMO).

So you read up to post #113, but nothing after?
Take it to the other thread.

[CBintheNorth]

PRO-CCW / ANTI-CCW COMMENTS GO HERE: http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?p=3634714#post3634714

[58thecat]

No matter how you play this on this thread it is a tragic, horrible thing that took place. Another one of those questions that will never be answered....why?

[JohninAB]

My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this terrible tragedy.

To use this sad, sad situation to discuss carry laws etc is heartless at best. You should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourselves. When you comment like that in a thread meant to show disgust at at an event of this magnitude and to express condolences to those who are hurting, you lose my respect for any such notion. There are times and places to discuss that, this is not the time nor place.

I could care less if you chose to vilify me for my comment.

[covey ridge]

FWIW, it was and is the left in general who is shouting the loudest about gun control.

^^^^^Everyone knows that!
I would bet that there are dead and wounded on the left and on the right and there is comfort and help coming from the left and the right. I am always surprised that when a disaster like this happens someone always has to think this is a good time to talk about concealed carry. This was a tragedy and there is no place that packing a gun would have mattered. This topic does not seem to be one where left or right should be an issue.

[Ken07AOVette]

There is live video on the news now, what a horrible ugly senseless tragedy.
I just can't imagine what that guy thought he was going to accomplish. If he was a mad gambler how does killing make things better? If he was ISIS there would be a reason, no matter how wrong and misguided there is an agenda. I just can not wrap my head around it, and sure hope it ends there.
Please give good news ABDiver.

[Mountain Guy]

A young lady from my town lost her life in this shooting..
Hits home hard and is gut wrenching.
Sincere condolences to her parents.

[elk396]

If there are no guns, they will use something else.

It is foolish to blame something that can be substituted. A Mack truck plowing through that crowd could have killed a lot more.

The level of gun control desired is directly linked to the amount of common sense one possesses.

a gun was made to kill things/people, a mack truck not so, it would be hard to get a mack truck into the concert. I agree with you as far as I want to have my freedom to bear arms, but, until we rid the world of bleeding heart liberals, we will never be able to deal with mentally ill people.because it might hurt their feelings or infringe on their rights. Pathetic isn't it? You're right, the fix is to deal with the people, and not the gun, but it's impossible to get the upper hand on these people, so the only option is to take the weapon unfortunately. Also, this guy just snapped apparently, no previous conviction? So how do you suppose we deal with that? It's a little late after he's killed a bunch and does himself in

[elk396]

Full auto is already banned and illegal in ALL states. Amazing the law didnt stop the shooter.

Sorry, but you are not correct, not sure of which states, but Arizona only requires an application for a fully automatic weapon, if approved, you can head to Vegas with it in your trunk and pull off what this guy did. Pretty scary isn't it!

[covey ridge]

Also, this guy just snapped apparently, no previous conviction? So how do you suppose we deal with that? It's a little late after he's killed a bunch and does himself in

That very well could be but I am prepared to wait for the investigation and not speculate too much about motive.

[elk396]

That very well could be but I am prepared to wait for the investigation and not speculate too much about motive.

So how do you think we should deal with these types of massacres? A thorough background check wouldn't have stopped him from purchasing automatic weapons, because he had legally purchased them according to the news, the only way is to ban them from, unfortunately everyone, because you just don't know when someone will lose it.

[elkhunter11]

So how do you think we should deal with these types of massacres? A thorough background check wouldn't have stopped him from purchasing automatic weapons, because he had legally purchased them according to the news, the only way is to ban them from, unfortunately everyone, because you just don't know when someone will lose it.

At this point it hasn't been confirmed that he even had a fully automatic firearm. And if he did have one, he may have modified it himself to make it fully automatic.

[Spidey]

Sorry, but you are not correct, not sure of which states, but Arizona only requires an application for a fully automatic weapon, if approved, you can head to Vegas with it in your trunk and pull off what this guy did. Pretty scary isn't it!

I believe Nevada may be the same. We were at a shooting range in Vegas last year and I tried out an MP5. Half jokingly I mentioned that it would be a cool gun to own, and the shooting range attendant said they sold them in their store - all you had to do was apply and wait either 3 or 6 months (I can't recall) and if cleared, you could buy one. I have to say, the reality of that kind of hit me. The shooter apparently never had so much as a speeding ticket - so I'm not confident a screening process would have caught him. I'm sorry but that is way too much gun for just anyone to own if you aren't LEO or military.

[covey ridge]

At this point it hasn't been confirmed that he even had a fully automatic firearm. And if he did have one, he may have modified it himself to make it fully automatic.

Good point! Lots of speculation here.

[DiabeticKripple]

A CBS Vice President was let go for saying that she didn't feel bad for the victims because most country music listeners are republicans.

[elk396]

At this point it hasn't been confirmed that he even had a fully automatic firearm. And if he did have one, he may have modified it himself to make it fully automatic.

If you have ever fired automatic weapons, there is no mistaking the automatic in the video, so whether it was modified I don't know, but it was guaranteed full auto.

[sureshot]

It was a stressful day for us as our oldest daughter was there. We finally received news that her and her boyfriend are ok. My thoughts and prayers go out to the other families.

[elkhunter11]

If you have ever fired automatic weapons, there is no mistaking the automatic in the video, so whether it was modified I don't know, but it was guaranteed full auto.

I have fired a few full autos, and I have heard several more being fired from up close. I have also heard semi autos being bump fired, and being fired by very experienced shooters, and some can sound quite similar. The mg42 that I fired was very distinctive though because of it's much faster rate of fire.

[Mulehahn]

I just found out person from Maple Ridge who was killed was the son of my ex-wife's coworker. Not that it should,but somehow the 3 degrees of separation makes it even worse. My heart is breaking for all those affected.

No words will take back those bullets, and no new gun control laws will stop them in the future. That horse left the barn a long time ago, not point in closing the door now.

[NCC]

A CBS Vice President was let go for saying that she didn't feel bad for the victims because most country music listeners are republicans.

Hayley Geftman-Gold, another member of the liberal, tolerant left. How could anyone who is intelligent enough to graduate from Columbia make such an ignorant comment.

[raab]

Pretty sure I heard on one of the news channels that the law which prevented purchase of full auto expired in around 2004 in Nevada and was not renewed. So that as of that date you could purchase full auto in Nevada the only requirement being that the firearm is registered. Also said that of all states Nevada is one of the softest on gun laws.

When you listen to the video there’s no way that could be bump firing (IMO).

Check out the slidefire stocks with AK's. Definitely could be that sort of thing, but I think it was a bigger size cartridge. So box fed machine gun like the BAR.

As for fully Auto it was Federal law is my understanding so it's the same across all states.

[covey ridge]

So how do you think we should deal with these types of massacres? A thorough background check wouldn't have stopped him from purchasing automatic weapons, because he had legally purchased them according to the news, the only way is to ban them from, unfortunately everyone, because you just don't know when someone will lose it.



To start with we should determine facts and not conclude anything without fact.

There are many things in this life that we can not control. None of us came into being with a guarantee of total safety. Hurricanes and massacres are things we can not control but we are left to deal with the aftermath as best we can. The availability of certain weapons may make things worse but since these weapons are already in existence they will probably be used again.
I do not like the word control but in truth the word control should apply to people. I may get myself in ca ca for saying but I do not think it is everyone's God given right to possess certain weapons. Keeping certain weapons out of easy access should be attempted but easier said than done. Throwing up our hands and saying let everyone own whatever they want is not a good thing.

[raab]

Sorry, but you are not correct, not sure of which states, but Arizona only requires an application for a fully automatic weapon, if approved, you can head to Vegas with it in your trunk and pull off what this guy did. Pretty scary isn't it!

Sorry, I read the law wrong. You can apply to buy a Machine gun, but they do an extensive background check. You then have to pay 200 bucks for what they call a tax stamp. After that you can only buy Machine Guns made prior to 1986, with cheap ones starting at 5000. So the shooter may have had machine guns, but they're certainly not easy to get. And this would be the first time a legally owned Class 3 weapon has been used to commit a crime since the National Firearms Act started in 1934.

[elkhunter11]

Sorry, I read the law wrong. You can apply to buy a Machine gun, but they do an extensive background check. You then have to pay 200 bucks for what they call a tax stamp. After that you can only buy Machine Guns made prior to 1986, with cheap ones starting at 5000. So the shooter may have had machine guns, but they're certainly not easy to get. And this would be the first time a legally owned Class 3 weapon has been used to commit a crime since the National Firearms Act started in 1934.

And it hasn't been confirmed that the shooter was the legal owner of a fully automatic firearm.

[Newview01]

And this would be the first time a legally owned Class 3 weapon has been used to commit a crime since the National Firearms Act started in 1934.

That's a hard sell to the anti's. They think every gun out there is full auto.

[johnnyringo]

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-gunman-used-bump-stock-device-to-speed-f/

[elkhunter11]

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-gunman-used-bump-stock-device-to-speed-f/

Much easier to obtain, and much cheaper than a fully automatic firearm, so much more likely what the shooter was using.

[play.soccer]

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/73xjk7/4chan_calling_the_vegas_shooting/

[play.soccer]

http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-video-multiple-shootes/

[does it ALL outdoors]

Much easier to obtain, and much cheaper than a fully automatic firearm, so much more likely what the shooter was using.

Been reading a trigger crank could of been used as well.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/expert-las-vegas-shooter-may-have-used-trigger-crank/723236001/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8

[raab]

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-gunman-used-bump-stock-device-to-speed-f/

That drape picture looks like CGI.

[Albertadiver]

Please give good news ABDiver.

The young lady didn't make it. I didn't know her, but my coworker is pretty crushed. Heartfelt condolences to their family and friends. She leaves behind two young children I understand.

[Ken07AOVette]

The young lady didn't make it. I didn't know her, but my coworker is pretty crushed. Heartfelt condolences to their family and friends. She leaves behind two young children I understand.

I am sorry. What a horrible thing. Condolences to family and friends. :(

[sgill808]

Very sad to hear that. My condolences.

[covey ridge]

The young lady didn't make it. I didn't know her, but my coworker is pretty crushed. Heartfelt condolences to their family and friends. She leaves behind two young children I understand.

So sorry to hear of your loss. This evil cowardly act will be felt across borders and around the world.

[Xbolt7mm]

Were they legal?

Was the automatic weapon he used purchased legally?

Here is an idea. Let’s make it illegal to murder. That will put an end to the problem.

And maybe properly punish those who break the law.

I'm said we are members of the same forum

[.257Weatherby]

Are you saying we should not have the right to carry?

Obviously if you have to ask you simply do not understand....
But, I will make it simple for you..there is a time and a place for that discussion and the time certainly isnt when there are people being gunned down from a 32 story elevated position.
But, thats fine Ill add you to the ignore list so as not to have to be exposed to your drivel Thank You very much.

Rob

[fitzy]

The young lady didn't make it. I didn't know her, but my coworker is pretty crushed. Heartfelt condolences to their family and friends. She leaves behind two young children I understand.

I'm sorry to hear that. My condolences to your co-worker and the young ladies family.

[raab]

The young lady didn't make it. I didn't know her, but my coworker is pretty crushed. Heartfelt condolences to their family and friends. She leaves behind two young children I understand.

Seen that last night. Condolences to the family and friends.

[.257Weatherby]

Give it up buddy, go start your own thread on the merits of open carry and banning murder.
It is in poor taste you keep posting the same....
Rob

[covey ridge]

I wish Newview01 would have told us how he would punish for murder when the murderer was willing to die while committing murder. Maybe Newview01 will answer when he wakes up from whatever he was on.

[elk396]

Sorry, I read the law wrong. You can apply to buy a Machine gun, but they do an extensive background check. You then have to pay 200 bucks for what they call a tax stamp. After that you can only buy Machine Guns made prior to 1986, with cheap ones starting at 5000. So the shooter may have had machine guns, but they're certainly not easy to get. And this would be the first time a legally owned Class 3 weapon has been used to commit a crime since the National Firearms Act started in 1934.

It's quite easy to acquire them, personally know people in the USA that own machine guns. One of them has a criminal record and has a safe full of full auto machine guns. He has told me it is easy to aquire them, so the laws are a joke down there around these guns.

[Albertadiver]

Seen that last night. Condolences to the family and friends.

In speaking with friends of the family, they didn't want any funds or anything like that, but a friend set up a gofundme anyhow.

https://www.gofundme.com/expenses-for-zach-and-the-kids

It's over 20k in three hours. I think that shows that lots of people are affected by this tragedy and want to help each other out.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3782591/las-vegas-shooting-tara-roe-killed/

There's lots of other people and families affected by this here in Alberta. Someone in Airdrie shot twice, and lots of other stories. The other mom of four kids that passed away too....

[kevinhits]

I am sure video will surface him coming and leaving since he checked in on Thursday....I cannot fathom how many cameras Mandalay would have...

[does it ALL outdoors]

It's quite easy to acquire them, personally know people in the USA that own machine guns. One of them has a criminal record and has a safe full of full auto machine guns. He has told me it is easy to aquire them, so the laws are a joke down there around these guns.

Unless your friends criminal record is misdemeanour charges, and he legally acquired his arsenal of automatic firearms all made prior to 1986 (Its easier to find a unicorn then someone legally in possession of one willing to sell it) then he would be illegally in possession of said automatic firearms. Has nothing to do with "the laws being a joke" and everything to do with him being a habitual criminal with no reguard for the law.

[Pathfinder76]

It's quite easy to acquire them, personally know people in the USA that own machine guns. One of them has a criminal record and has a safe full of full auto machine guns. He has told me it is easy to aquire them, so the laws are a joke down there around these guns.

I'd personally believe everything that guy says for sure.

[kevinhits]

What I see that is amazing.....The Police and swat team were at that hotel room door within 12 minutes of the first shots reported....12 Minutes...If in fact true, that is an unbelievable response since it was coming from a hotel on the 32nd floor....

[270person]

We should have the right to carry and defend ourselves. This is getting out of control.

Yes because when someone's shooting from the 30th floor of a building 400 yards away your 9mm peashooter will save the day. :snapoutofit:

[270person]

What I see that is amazing.....The Police and swat team were at that hotel room door within 12 minutes of the first shots reported....12 Minutes...If in fact true, that is an unbelievable response since it was coming from a hotel on the 32nd floor....


Heard a report that the shooters location was fairly easy to determine thanks to the rifle reports. Smashed out windows probably helped to once they had a general location. If he'd been sniping with a suppressor it likely would have been a lot more difficult.

Cue the : "I should be allowed to put anything I want on the end of my gun", my rights as a citizen are being trodden on mob.

Good job by the police.

[elk396]

Unless your friends criminal record is misdemeanour charges, and he legally acquired his arsenal of automatic firearms all made prior to 1986 (Its easier to find a unicorn then someone legally in possession of one willing to sell it) then he would be illegally in possession of said automatic firearms. Has nothing to do with "the laws being a joke" and everything to do with him being a habitual criminal with no reguard for the law.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion as am I, but I have personally seen it first hand, all I can do is state it here and you can tear it up as you like. It is nothing like the laws here in Canada, it is easy to get full auto weapons in some states period, which is a joke n my opinion. Just to be sure, I made a phone call to one of the individuals last nite before I posted the facts. Until that changes, you will see more Las Vegas type situations. My argument is that many people feel we need to address mental disease instead, it won't work, because the guy in Vegas had no prior diagnosed mental illness according to what is stated on every news channel, that's all the info we have to make speculation on for now. Assuming it is the case, the only way to stop this mass assault on a crowd is with a ban on those types of weapons, then if he loses it, so be it, he can try attack a crowd with an knife , hammer or cube van like they are doing in Europe.

[fitzy]

What I see that is amazing.....The Police and swat team were at that hotel room door within 12 minutes of the first shots reported....12 Minutes...If in fact true, that is an unbelievable response since it was coming from a hotel on the 32nd floor....

I heard on the radio there was so much smoke they traced a fire alarm to his room. They were saying it helped immensely.

[Sledhead71]

I heard on the radio there was so much smoke they traced a fire alarm to his room. They were saying it helped immensely.

Someone mentioned this morning at work that you would think the hotel would have alarms when one of those windows was broke...

My condolences to the families and friends of all those involved.

[jstubbs]

Horrible event, what a sick piece of ****. RIP to all of the victims whose injuries were fatal, and hopefully a speedy recovery to all of those injured.

And as if the United States wasn't divided enough as is, another wedge gets slammed into the gap. Some people are even calling Jason Aldean a coward after what happened because he didn't yell "run!" or magically stop the shooter or something. Atrocities like these bring out the best in some people, and the absolute worst in others.

[raab]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion as am I, but I have personally seen it first hand, all I can do is state it here and you can tear it up as you like. It is nothing like the laws here in Canada, it is easy to get full auto weapons in some states period, which is a joke n my opinion. Just to be sure, I made a phone call to one of the individuals last nite before I posted the facts. Until that changes, you will see more Las Vegas type situations. My argument is that many people feel we need to address mental disease instead, it won't work, because the guy in Vegas had no prior diagnosed mental illness according to what is stated on every news channel, that's all the info we have to make speculation on for now. Assuming it is the case, the only way to stop this mass assault on a crowd is with a ban on those types of weapons, then if he loses it, so be it, he can try attack a crowd with an knife , hammer or cube van like they are doing in Europe.

Or you know a bomb like Oklahoma city....

[raab]

Someone mentioned this morning at work that you would think the hotel would have alarms when one of those windows was broke...

My condolences to the families and friends of all those involved.

Im surprised the windows werent bullet proof. I still dont understand how the two windows got blown out. Were the rooms side by side? Also was no one else staying on the 32nd floor?

[Albertadiver]

Im surprised the windows werent bullet proof. I still dont understand how the two windows got blown out. Were the rooms side by side? Also was no one else staying on the 32nd floor?

US building codes are similar to Canadian.

Here in Canada, for a high-rise building, when you have floor to ceiling glazing, it must be strong enough to withstand guardrail loading. It's an engineered product. Judging from the videos and photos, there's likely a coating or film installed for light reflectance to keep the cooling loads down for the building.

To make the windows actually bulletproof, you're talking HUGE weight, and HUGE money. There are different levels of strength too. From small caliber to higher caliber. It would be cost prohibitive to make all the glazing bulletproof. Even in courthouses and jails there are only certain areas that have that kind of glazing.

He used a fairly hefty hammer to break the glass.

There is a video of the exact suite on the internet. It's a large suite with a huge bedroom. If I can find it I'll post a link.

EDIT: Here a link of the actual suite filmed in 2016 by a hotel guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjTsxSEQgOI

[Nester]

Apparently he had a camera set up in the room to record the massacre as well as cameras in the hall to see when the cops were coming.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-loaded-high-capacity-magazines-found-vegas-shooters/story?id=50228093

[elk396]

Or you know a bomb like Oklahoma city....

You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bomb, poor comparison

[elkhunter11]

You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bomb, poor comparison

You can buy the components required to make a bomb from an agricultural supply store and a service station.

[Don_Parsons]

A sad day for sure. The brake down of man kind at its worst.

Our families hearts go to those that lost their lives, injured and the many friends & families left behind to deal with this horrific crime.

Koods to the rescue personal, police, general public that have very heavy heavy hearts after dealing first hand with this aftermath.

It is hard to pick-up the peaces of humanity, sad,,, very sad indeed.

From Don and Family

[Albertadiver]

Apparently he had a camera set up in the room to record the massacre as well as cameras in the hall to see when the cops were coming.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-loaded-high-capacity-magazines-found-vegas-shooters/story?id=50228093

photo's leaked here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html

[Newview01]

You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bomb, poor comparison

It is a pretty valid comparison, you need to find better arguments that use logic not emotion.

[Ken07AOVette]

9GAG and other sites already are making joke threads about Vegas. I can't believe how ignorant people are.

[elk396]

It is a pretty valid comparison, you need to find better arguments that use logic not emotion.

It's a tangent, the conversation was supposed to be about loose gun laws in the us that lead to massacres like this, not the comparison of the Oklahoma city bombing to the massacre in Las Vegas and which is the easier method? The Oklahoma city bomber didn't apply for a destructive weapon and get it, the shooter in this case did, no pre mental conditions, obviously he tricked the system. So in his case he legally got the weapons and slaughtered a bunch of people. If you weren't able to get those weapons, he would have had to use different guns, the casualties would have been way less. The same situation at a music concert in Canada, you would have way less casualties if a gunman with a hunting rifle opened up on the crowd. So I don't get how you can argue these guys should have the right to possess these weapons?
When the 2nd amendment was written, there weren't guys in possession of automatic weapons, it's outdated, it needs an amendment.

[Newview01]

It's a tangent, the conversation was supposed to be about loose gun laws in the us that lead to massacres like this, not the comparison of the Oklahoma city bombing to the massacre in Las Vegas and which is the easier method? The Oklahoma city bomber didn't apply for a destructive weapon and get it, the shooter in this case did, no pre mental conditions, obviously he tricked the system. So in his case he legally got the weapons and slaughtered a bunch of people. If you weren't able to get those weapons, he would have had to use different guns, the casualties would have been way less. The same situation at a music concert in Canada, you would have way less casualties if a gunman with a hunting rifle opened up on the crowd. So I don't get how you can argue these guys should have the right to possess these weapons?
When the 2nd amendment was written, there weren't guys in possession of automatic weapons, it's outdated, it needs an amendment.

1st of all, the 2nd Amendment was written for one or two reasons. To provide the people with whatever means would be necessary to prevent government tyranny, as well as the right to personal self defense. It has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting. Don’t say I am wrong, that has been proven in court, numerous times.

2nd, you are still trying to separate to mass murder incidents. Does it matter what method was used? The fact is if someone kills a lot of people, they are probably insane.

3rd, if someone wants a machine gun, they will get one. It’s not as hard as you think. Black market, make your own, whatever, if you are planning an incident like this you will be determined enough to get what you want.

Now answer these questions - why are you people blaming the gun? why don’t you realize that it was a person who used a tool to commit murder? Focus on the issue that a human is psycho / evil enough to want to kill hundreds, not on the tools he used.

[elkhunter11]

It's a tangent, the conversation was supposed to be about loose gun laws in the us that lead to massacres like this, not the comparison of the Oklahoma city bombing to the massacre in Las Vegas and which is the easier method? The Oklahoma city bomber didn't apply for a destructive weapon and get it, the shooter in this case did, no pre mental conditions, obviously he tricked the system. So in his case he legally got the weapons and slaughtered a bunch of people. If you weren't able to get those weapons, he would have had to use different guns, the casualties would have been way less. The same situation at a music concert in Canada, you would have way less casualties if a gunman with a hunting rifle opened up on the crowd. So I don't get how you can argue these guys should have the right to possess these weapons?
When the 2nd amendment was written, there weren't guys in possession of automatic weapons, it's outdated, it needs an amendment.

According to the ATF , the firearms used, were semi automatic rifles . They are restricted here in Canada, but anyone with A valid RPAL can still purchase them. The rifles were equipped with stocks that allowed them to be bump fired, and even if those stocks are not allowed in Canada, the rifles themselves are legal here.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/atf-las-vegas-shooter-devices-attached-12-weapons-50267837

[Newview01]

photo's leaked here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html

He spent a small fortune on the Surefire 100 round mags. Also listening to the audio you could tell they were large mags.

http://www.surefire.com/mag5-100.html

[elk396]

1st of all, the 2nd Amendment was written for one or two reasons. To provide the people with whatever means would be necessary to prevent government tyranny, as well as the right to personal self defense. It has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting. Don’t say I am wrong, that has been proven in court, numerous times.

2nd, you are still trying to separate to mass murder incidents. Does it matter what method was used? The fact is if someone kills a lot of people, they are probably insane.

3rd, if someone wants a machine gun, they will get one. It’s not as hard as you think. Black market, make your own, whatever, if you are planning an incident like this you will be determined enough to get what you want.

Now answer these questions - why are you people blaming the gun? why don’t you realize that it was a person who used a tool to commit murder? Focus on the issue that a human is psycho / evil enough to want to kill hundreds, not on the tools he used.

I'm on your side on many of your comments, but I think you shouldn't be able to possess machine guns or purchase a stock that turns a semi into one. The potential for carnage is 100 fold instantly. It's not a good system. When fellow Albertans are getting mowed down, it's starting to register for me. It may be an infringement on some peoples rights, but what about the rights of the people who went to that concert? What do you think there families would say to you now? If they were agreeing with your comments last week, I doubt they would this week. Not sure, but I personally know people in the USA that have no business owning machine guns, and they purchased them legally.
The whole things isn't a lot different than the leader of NK developing nuclear weapons, to protect himself, do you really want that guy to have a weapon of mass destruction? Without them, he can't harm one Canadian, but with them he can destroy us. So, if you have a system in the US where you can by after market equipment to turn a semi into a full auto, eventually you will have a Las Vegas. Something has to change.

[covey ridge]

Now answer these questions - why are you people blaming the gun? why don’t you realize that it was a person who used a tool to commit murder? Focus on the issue that a human is psycho / evil enough to want to kill hundreds, not on the tools he used.

It is obvious that a lot of nut bars can not be detected before they go full granola. Massacres will happen but it is like putting a lock on your door. Do not make it easy and efficient to kill so many people.

I for one am not blaming the gun but I do blame the apparent easy access to that type of firepower. It boggles my mind when I hear that a kit to convert to full auto is legal to sell even on line without restriction but it is illegal to put it on a rifle for its intended purpose. This is what led to the gunman being easily able to connect with so many targets in such a short period of time.

I am Canadian and I am glad we do not have a second amendment right to own or make for ourselves this kind of firearm.

I think that the USA needs to get their act together.

I think the USA is afraid of the NRA lobby. I do not think the NRA is concerned with the individuals right to keep and bear firearms but needs to protect the industry interest to supply firearms to any one that wants them. $$$$$$$$

[play.soccer]

I'm on your side on many of your comments, but I think you shouldn't be able to possess machine guns or purchase a stock that turns a semi into one. The potential for carnage is 100 fold instantly. It's not a good system. When fellow Albertans are getting mowed down, it's starting to register for me. It may be an infringement on some peoples rights, but what about the rights of the people who went to that concert? What do you think there families would say to you now? If they were agreeing with your comments last week, I doubt they would this week. Not sure, but I personally know people in the USA that have no business owning machine guns, and they purchased them legally.
The whole things isn't a lot different than the leader of NK developing nuclear weapons, to protect himself, do you really want that guy to have a weapon of mass destruction? Without them, he can't harm one Canadian, but with them he can destroy us. So, if you have a system in the US where you can by after market equipment to turn a semi into a full auto, eventually you will have a Las Vegas. Something has to change.


Recently a shop in spruce grove was manufacturing working MAC11 subguns. Those are currently banned but it didn't stop someone with tools from making them.

The slide fire stocks and hand cranks are already banned up here. What's next? Ban hardware stores? Only people with contractor licenses can shop there?

Think about how many gun parts get smuggled in or made that are already illegal.

Your thinking is the same as banning drugs so no one does drugs. Like that worked. Like prohibition worked for alcohol. Like drinking and driving laws worked to stop impaired driving. Like speed limits stop people from speeding.

[play.soccer]

It is obvious that a lot of nut bars can not be detected before they go full granola. Massacres will happen but it is like putting a lock on your door. Do not make it easy and efficient to kill so many people.

I for one am not blaming the gun but I do blame the apparent easy access to that type of firepower. It boggles my mind when I hear that a kit to convert to full auto is legal to sell even on line without restriction but it is illegal to put it on a rifle for its intended purpose. This is what led to the gunman being easily able to connect with so many targets in such a short period of time.

I am Canadian and I am glad we do not have a second amendment right to own or make for ourselves this kind of firearm.

I think that the USA needs to get their act together.

I think the USA is afraid of the NRA lobby. I do not think the NRA is concerned with the individuals right to keep and bear firearms but needs to protect the industry interest to supply firearms to any one that wants them. $$$$$$$$

You're glad we have less rights in Canada than the USA. :thinking-006:

[Newview01]

It is obvious that a lot of nut bars can not be detected before they go full granola. Massacres will happen but it is like putting a lock on your door. Do not make it easy and efficient to kill so many people.

I for one am not blaming the gun but I do blame the apparent easy access to that type of firepower. It boggles my mind when I hear that a kit to convert to full auto is legal to sell even on line without restriction but it is illegal to put it on a rifle for its intended purpose. This is what led to the gunman being easily able to connect with so many targets in such a short period of time.

I am Canadian and I am glad we do not have a second amendment right to own or make for ourselves this kind of firearm.

I think that the USA needs to get their act together.

I think the USA is afraid of the NRA lobby. I do not think the NRA is concerned with the individuals right to keep and bear firearms but needs to protect the industry interest to supply firearms to any one that wants them. $$$$$$$$

So answer this question - Considering the fact that it is already illegal to commit murder, do you believe that reducing access to firearms to what is arguably the most law-abiding demographic will result in lower murder rates? Before you answer, take into account the current number of firearms in the US, the demographic that is doing the murdering, the weapon of choice in the average murder, and the fact that the perp is already flouting the law by committing murder.

Second, you state "that type of firepower"? What do you mean by that? The calibre? The AR-15? The magazine size?

[covey ridge]

You're glad we have less rights in Canada than the USA. :thinking-006:

I am glad that we do not have a legal loop that allows easy access to stuff that makes it easy for mass murder.

There is nothing about the USA that I envy.

[Newview01]

I am glad that we do not have a legal loop that allows easy access to stuff that makes it easy for mass murder.

There is nothing about the USA that I envy.

So there is nothing legally available in Canada that makes mass murder easy?

[elkhunter11]

So there is nothing legally available in Canada that makes mass murder easy?

The Las Vegas shooter owned aircraft. What do you suppose the result would have been if he loaded one up with Jerry cans full of gasoline, and crashed it into the same crowd?

[Deo101]

Couple points...

-The argument for owning machine guns to keep a tyrannical government at bay is way beyond outdated. Unless you can own tanks, drones, nuclear weapons, fighter jets, access like NSA etc etc I don't think the citizens stand a chance. In my humble opinion the only thing that keeps a government at bay is a military that is unwilling to got to bat for them.

-Besides all the back and forth and tired arguments either for or against gun control I think it's way to far gone at this point to try to control gun and ammunition supply. For a few years now you have been able to download a torrent file to a 3d printer in your basement and make your very own handgun. Keep in mind that is a few years old and was on msm. Can probably do a lot more than that now.

I don't know what the answer is...

[wags]

The Las Vegas shooter owned aircraft. What do you suppose the result would have been if he loaded one up with Jerry cans full of gasoline, and crashed it into the same crowd?

You come up with a lot of 'what if's'

[Newview01]

You come up with a lot of 'what if's'

That is precisely the point.

Do we ban items that can cause destruction? Some are willing to be very selective on that.

[covey ridge]

So answer this question - Considering the fact that it is already illegal to commit murder, do you believe that reducing access to firearms to what is arguably the most law-abiding demographic will result in lower murder rates? Before you answer, take into account the current number of firearms in the US, the demographic that is doing the murdering, the weapon of choice in the average murder, and the fact that the perp is already flouting the law by committing murder.

Second, you state "that type of firepower"? What do you mean by that? The calibre? The AR-15? The magazine size?

I think you know where I am coming from and I know your point of view well enough to know that you will never be satisfied with any answer I give. I do not give a heck if you do not agree with me. You can label me any way you want and I do not care:)

[Nayr]

so sad,

[Atex]

Some interesting thoughts here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNqxUuyHFzc&t=1s

[Newview01]

I think you know where I am coming from and I know your point of view well enough to know that you will never be satisfied with any answer I give. I do not give a heck if you do not agree with me. You can label me any way you want and I do not care:)

I do know, and obviously the argument can continue forever as long as emotions are a factor. But the reality is that the anti crowd's common sense is not in play simply due to the fact that no matter what the law is evil people will carry out their plans. This needs to be acknowledged, as well as the fact that a full auto weapon is not difficult to procure, ban or no ban.

End of argument.

[wags]

That is precisely the point.

Do we ban items that can cause destruction? Some are willing to be very selective on that.

What ifs hasn't happened on a repeated basis. Mass shootings in the states does.

If every day someone flew a plane into a crowd of people, then I would expect calls to strengthen pilot licenses, plane purchases, etc, would occur.

[wags]

I do know, and obviously the argument can continue forever as long as emotions are a factor. But the reality is that the anti crowd's common sense is not in play simply due to the fact that no matter what the law is evil people will carry out their plans. This needs to be acknowledged, as well as the fact that a full auto weapon is not difficult to procure, ban or no ban.

End of argument.

I'm not an anti at all. What's your argument for me wanting stronger gun control, specifically in the States?

[Newview01]

I'm not an anti at all. What's your argument for me wanting stronger gun control, specifically in the States?

2 things - gun control is more about control than gun. And what would stricter gun control accomplish.

[Newview01]

What ifs hasn't happened on a repeated basis. Mass shootings in the states does.

If every day someone flew a plane into a crowd of people, then I would expect calls to strengthen pilot licenses, plane purchases, etc, would occur.

What about vehicular homicides (hit and run, drinking and driving, etc) and the truck attacks we have seen?

[gtr]

Keyboard warriors are always right. I wonder how they function in the real world.

[wags]

2 things - gun control is more about control than gun. And what would stricter gun control accomplish.

There would be less guns available. There would be less mass shootings. There would be less people dead as a result. Works in other places.

[wags]

What about vehicular homicides (hit and run, drinking and driving, etc) and the truck attacks we have seen?

What about them?

But let's recap the last two events that have occurred.

Edmonton - guy rams and stabs a cop, drives a u-haul through a crowd. total time - several hours - result - 5 people injured.

Las Vegas - guy shoots into crowd for 9 minutes - 58 dead, over 500 injured.

If things are harder to get, they're harder to use, if they're harder to get, there's less available.

I really should have just shut up, i'm not interested in debating this with anyone.

My heart hurts, this is too regular an occurrence. Things have to change, status quo is NOT working.

Cheers

[play.soccer]

I am glad that we do not have a legal loop that allows easy access to stuff that makes it easy for mass murder.

There is nothing about the USA that I envy.

At one point a guy in a tower with a bolt action commuted mass murder. 17 people died.

ANYTHING can create mass murder if you get creative enough.


What if someone had a bolt action .22 with cci quiets and just started poppin people walking their dogs in the river valley or dog park?

[elk396]

Couple points...

-The argument for owning machine guns to keep a tyrannical government at bay is way beyond outdated. Unless you can own tanks, drones, nuclear weapons, fighter jets, access like NSA etc etc I don't think the citizens stand a chance. In my humble opinion the only thing that keeps a government at bay is a military that is unwilling to got to bat for them.

-Besides all the back and forth and tired arguments either for or against gun control I think it's way to far gone at this point to try to control gun and ammunition supply. For a few years now you have been able to download a torrent file to a 3d printer in your basement and make your very own handgun. Keep in mind that is a few years old and was on msm. Can probably do a lot more than that now.

I don't know what the answer is...

Best post on this thread by far, well said. You can't take every possible weapon away from humans, i.e.., airplanes full of fuel, but getting rid of assault weapons for public use, that are easy to purchase, is at least one less, very dangerous option removed. There is hundreds of thousands of them out there, just waiting for the next nut to slip the auto stock on and kill as many innocents as possible before he ends his life. Kind of shocking when people refer to their 2nd amendment right after watching this nut exercise his second amendment right on those poor people.

[Newview01]

Kind of shocking when people refer to their 2nd amendment right after watching this nut exercise his second amendment right on those poor people.

You stated it is his second amendment right to slaughter people. Interesting.

[propliner]

The shooter was on Diazepam.
All of the mass murder shooters from Columbine to Las Vegas were on similar serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
It is the elephant in the room, and the mass media hides this fact in order to prevent billions of dollars in lost advertising revenue.

These drugs can cause cause people to dream up sadistically grandiose plans along with the urge to follow through with them. There is plenty of info regarding these drugs and their relation to this type of behaviour on the internet.

[Deo101]

The shooter was on Diazepam.
All of the mass murder shooters from Columbine to Las Vegas were on similar serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
It is the elephant in the room, and the mass media hides this fact in order to prevent billions of dollars in lost advertising revenue.

These drugs can cause cause people to dream up sadistically grandiose plans along with the urge to follow through with them. There is plenty of info regarding these drugs and their relation to this type of behaviour on the internet.

Where has this been reported...to be honest, I've been waiting for it. SSRI's seem to be involved in mass shootings just as much as the weapons themselves. Ban SSRI's!!!!!!

[propliner]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stephen-paddock-prescribed-anti-anxiety-meds-june-report-article-1.3540386

Diazepam is actually Valium and may not be an SSRI. It is prescribed for anxiety.

[Scott h]

You're glad we have less rights in Canada than the USA. :thinking-006:

If what you call "rights" are that thousands of whack jobs have accssess to automatic weapons then I'm glad we aren't in the same boat as the good 'ol US of A.
Do you think Americans have a higher incidence of homicidal mental instability than the rest of western society ? Or do you think it's just that so many of them have instant access to firearms compared to other countries ? Which one do you think is the answer ??

[6.5 shooter]

Amazing how many people on a gun forum are anti gun......:thinking-006:

So I am sure you are the same people who voted for Justin in the last election and are more then happy to have Justin and his merry band of idiots bring in wasteful and inefficient gun laws to create over night criminals of LAW abiding gun users in Canada :scared:

When will you Liberal types learn, that control's don't work and all they do is place you under the yoke of your masters?

Blame the shooter NOT the gun...would you Progressives feel better if he had used a bomb instead :rolleye2:

Really give your heads a shake and join the CBC or Global, CNN chat rooms and find people who are of a like mind.

[Newview01]

Do you think Americans have a higher incidence of homicidal mental instability than the rest of western society?

Yes without a doubt.

[Scott h]

What ifs hasn't happened on a repeated basis. Mass shootings in the states does.

If every day someone flew a plane into a crowd of people, then I would expect calls to strengthen pilot licenses, plane purchases, etc, would occur.

Americans seem unable to learn from past mistakes and mass shootings will continue down there. In fact there will probably be one today (end of the week at the longest if their numbers hold up).

[Scott h]

Yes without a doubt.
There you go! We have the answer.....:sHa_shakeshout:

[Trochu]

What about them?

But let's recap the last two events that have occurred.

Edmonton - guy rams and stabs a cop, drives a u-haul through a crowd. total time - several hours - result - 5 people injured.

Las Vegas - guy shoots into crowd for 9 minutes - 58 dead, over 500 injured.


Last two events, yes, but if you go a little further back, 84 were killed with a truck in Paris.

[Newview01]

Americans seem unable to learn from past mistakes and mass shootings will continue down there. In fact there will probably be one today (end of the week at the longest if their numbers hold up).

There is a mass murder happening all year long in Chicago. I believe there have been around 550 homicides this year so far.

[Scott h]

Last two events, yes, but if you go a little further back, 84 were killed with a truck in Paris.

Yes but at least one mass shooting occurs EVERY DAY in America :snapoutofit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-mass-shooting-every-day-seven-facts-gun-violence-america/

[tirebob]

What about them?

But let's recap the last two events that have occurred.

Edmonton - guy rams and stabs a cop, drives a u-haul through a crowd. total time - several hours - result - 5 people injured.

Las Vegas - guy shoots into crowd for 9 minutes - 58 dead, over 500 injured.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

86 Dead and 458 injured... With a Truck. BAN TRUCKS!!!

[wags]

Last two events, yes, but if you go a little further back, 84 were killed with a truck in Paris.

Absolutely, now let's add up ALL the events. Wanna guess what will win? guns, trucks or bombs?

[Newview01]

Yes but at least one mass shooting occurs EVERY DAY in America :snapoutofit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-mass-shooting-every-day-seven-facts-gun-violence-america/

From Wikipedia:


A mass shooting is an incident involving multiple victims of firearms-related violence.[1] The United States' Congressional Research Service acknowledges that there is not a broadly accepted definition, and defines a "public mass shooting"[2] as one in which four or more people selected indiscriminately, not including the perpetrator, are killed, echoing the FBI definition[3][4] of the term "mass murder". Another unofficial definition of a mass shooting is an event involving the shooting (not necessarily resulting in death) of four or more people with no cooling-off period

[Newview01]

Absolutely, now let's add up ALL the events. Wanna guess what will win? guns, trucks or bombs?

Will banning any of them help the situation?

[tirebob]

Absolutely, now let's add up ALL the events. Wanna guess what will win? guns, trucks or bombs?I honestly think that rather than eliminating mass murders, it is only going to change methods. The truck incident in Nice is an example of that. Yes they are many mass murderers who choose guns to do their deeds, but if they are intent on mass murdering, do you thing that less access to guns is going to change their minds on mass murder? I for one do not... A person who is capable of performing an act such as these will get it done no matter what method they can dream up...

[wags]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

86 Dead and 458 injured... With a Truck. BAN TRUCKS!!!

as I've already said, now add them all up. ALL. i'll bet with no worries that trucks aren't going to be the main one. You're free to hold on to it, it's doesn't matter to me how you justify this - fact of the matter is, there's more mass shootings in the states per year than their are days in the year. how often are trucks driven through crowds?

But further to the point - why don't they drive tanks around instead of cargo trucks. why not semis? Perhaps, it's the limited access to these that would cause considerable more damage....

[Albertadiver]

So they lock the thread on Gun control, and everyone heads over to this one to resume the bickering?

This event will impact thousands of people, directly and indirectly.

Wouldn't letting the dust settle a bit be the respectful thing to do before resuming the arguing?

[Scott h]

I honestly think that rather than eliminating mass murders, it is only going to change methods. The truck incident in Nice is an example of that. Yes they are many mass murderers who choose guns to do their deeds, but if they are intent on mass murdering, do you thing that less access to guns is going to change their minds on mass murder? I for one do not... A person who is capable of performing an act such as these will get it done no matter what method they can dream up...

Then why does the USA have the honor of the highest incidence ? All countries have trucks but only the US has insane gun laws.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/03/bump-stock-devices-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-could-have/

[Unregistered user]

9/11, the mother of all mass murders. No guns used.

[wags]

9/11, the mother of all mass murders. No guns used.

And considerable restrictions were put in place after that event. Doesn't seem to be happening now, when it was obviously an effective way at that time.

Cheers

[markg]

I find it interesting that those on the left blame and want to ban guns, but wont blame or ban people from areas of conflict that want to kill Westerners? Seems like an illogical disconnect.

[wags]

I find it interesting that those on the left blame and want to ban guns, but wont blame or ban people from areas of conflict that want to kill Westerners? Seems like an illogical disconnect.

Sounds racist to just blanket ban people.

[Scott h]

I find it interesting that those on the left blame and want to ban guns, but wont blame or ban people from areas of conflict that want to kill Westerners? Seems like an illogical disconnect.

What areas are you talking about ? Vegas ?

[Kurt505]

What areas are you talking about ? Vegas ?

I think the point he's trying to make is that people who don't see banning all people from a certain area as a viable option have no problem banning guns from all people as a viable option.

A pot meet kettle type statement if you will.

[Scott h]

I think the point he's trying to make is that people who don't see banning all people from a certain area as a viable option have no problem banning guns from all people as a viable option.

A pot meet kettle type statement if you will.

Yes I know what he meant but if you look at the numbers of shootings and murders, the USA ranks right up close to the top. Should we institute travel bans to the states?

[markg]

Sounds racist to just blanket ban people.

We did just that during world war 2 My family had imigrated in the late 1800's and were german speaking. They were required to report to RCMP weekly and were not permited to own radio's.

Were we racially profiled? Yes. Was it reasonable considering the fact that Canada was at war with Germany yes.

I am not a racist, I believe all men are created equal. However I dont think all cultures are equal.

[Kurt505]

Yes I know what he meant but if you look at the numbers of shootings and murders, the USA ranks right up close to the top. Should we institute travel bans to the states?

What are you basing your numbers on? The number of tourists killed per capita?

Can you show me those stats?

Actually, can you show me the demographics of who is doing the killing and who is being killed? That's about the only statistic that matters to me. I don't care if it's murder by a 9mm or with a toothbrush, I want to know the stats on who's doing the killing and who's being killed please.