Brian Jean and firearms

[Newview01]

From the NFA’s facebook page.


Gun owners in Alberta should know this about Brian Jean and gun owner licensing #cantalkguns #worldwithoutguns
When asked if he supported taking non violent, non victim firearms offenses out of the Criminal Code of Canada United Conservative Party Leadership Candidate Brian Jean said "ABSOLUTELY NOT, THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN".
Section 91 of Canada's Criminal code allows a 4 year prison sentence for the non violent, non victim crime of possession of a firearm.
The gun license allows possession without criminal charges - however when it expires criminal charges can be laid under CCC S 91. Despite the very limited Amnesty created by Bill C42


I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.

[densa44]

Brian Jean's opinion would have the same weight as mine.
Do you think the Feds, doesn't matter what party would do this, and why?

[play.soccer]

How does a provincial premier have any say on federal law?

[Digger1]

What about Kenney?

[Newview01]

I realize his opinion is not going to change the law, but the fact that he would not support the suggested changes is a little disconcerting.

[play.soccer]

Why doesn't the NFA try to change jeans mind instead of just turning voters against him? Jean has the best chance of being premier. Let's not squander it. We can't lose the best election.

[bloopbloob]

From the NFA’s facebook page.



I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.

He will get my vote.....

[Talking moose]

Brian is pro gun. He hunts and has a trap line. To say he wants lax penalties for gun offences is political suicide.

[pikeman06]

He wants votes and knows what the general population needs to hear after something as tragic as the Las Vegas massacre. He gets my vote. Alberta can't have another NDP term. We already lost what it took decades to build in foreign investment. Never mind the deficit they have put us hard working albertans in, our grandchildren need a future besides paying taxes to a " do nothing" government.

[play.soccer]

He wants votes and knows what the general population needs to hear after something as tragic as the Las Vegas massacre. He gets my vote. Alberta can't have another NDP term. We already lost what it took decades to build in foreign investment. Never mind the deficit they have put us hard working albertans in, our grandchildren need a future besides paying taxes to a " do nothing" government.


Bingo

[brendan's dad]

From the NFA’s facebook page.



I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

[Newview01]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

Yeah, I know you would. Doesn’t mean that it works.

It would be perfect if we had a law that made murder illegal right?

[theoldguy]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

Good point - from an old farmer:). He gets my vote too. tog

[HowSwedeItIs]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

Good point

[Kristopher10]

I would think that as a responsible firearm owner, who is in possession of firearms, would keep their PAL current.

I understand that sometimes things slip the mind, and one may be waiting for a renewed PAL. I'm also of the mind that if my PAL expires the firearms will not be removed from my safe until I get a valid one. I can't see the RCMP knocking on your door to check your PAL and then search your home for firearms, much less charging you under the criminal code for it.

[Selkirk]

From the NFA’s facebook page.

Quote:
Gun owners in Alberta should know this about Brian Jean and gun owner licensing #cantalkguns #worldwithoutguns
When asked if he supported taking non violent, non victim firearms offenses out of the Criminal Code of Canada United Conservative Party Leadership Candidate Brian Jean said "ABSOLUTELY NOT, THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN".
Section 91 of Canada's Criminal code allows a 4 year prison sentence for the non violent, non victim crime of possession of a firearm.
The gun license allows possession without criminal charges - however when it expires criminal charges can be laid under CCC S 91. Despite the very limited Amnesty created by Bill C42



I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.

That ^ looks like Facebook 'hearsay', to me! :mad0030:

Gun owners of Alberta should know that Brian Jean is a gun owner, hunter, and also ran a trapline in his earlier days.

And if you don't believe this ... go ask Brian himself!


Selkirk

[1899b]

All I know is that the Jean family, a whole lot of them lived off the land in my home town of McMurray and were using firearms to do it.

[brendan's dad]

Yeah, I know you would. Doesn’t mean that it works.

It would be perfect if we had a law that made murder illegal right?


So you are of the opinion that because there are individuals (criminals) in our society that do not adhere to the laws, then we should just get rid of said laws?

Newview01 for Prime Minister.... run on the platform of no laws and let everyone fend for themselves. I think you may have watched "Mad Max" one too many times. But if that is the type of world you want to live in, then Canada may not be the place for you.

[Bergerboy]

From the NFA’s facebook page.

Gun owners in Alberta should know this about Brian Jean and gun owner licensing #cantalkguns #worldwithoutguns
When asked if he supported taking non violent, non victim firearms offenses out of the Criminal Code of Canada United Conservative Party Leadership Candidate Brian Jean said "ABSOLUTELY NOT, THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN".
Section 91 of Canada's Criminal code allows a 4 year prison sentence for the non violent, non victim crime of possession of a firearm.
The gun license allows possession without criminal charges - however when it expires criminal charges can be laid under CCC S 91. Despite the very limited Amnesty created by Bill C42

I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.



So you feel if a career criminal gets pulled over and police find a loaded Glock in his car that it should not be a crime? I sure do.

[diamond k]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

Agree with you but it is still unfortunate that some cant see the forest for the trees. All gun laws are not necessarily bad laws. Much to some peoples dismay this is not the wild west anymore.

[skidderman]

Brian is pro gun. He hunts and has a trap line. To say he wants lax penalties for gun offences is political suicide.

This. Anything else is likely fake news.

[Don_Parsons]

Mr Jean or Kenny as long as none of us ever hear the words NDP in the West.

Don

Brian at least is a out door person and family man of OHV, river boats, fishing, hunting and all things related.

He is easy to chat with and common folk like many of us.
I meet with him this spring, very aprochable person who lives in Alberta, knows Alberta, and presses the issues for us in Alberta.

Jason Kenny is a hard working runner that can get things done to. My brother has meet him a few times as he's a go getter.

To each their own come election time my friends.

The question I'd be asking is,,, what would the Notley team say if they were asked this question???

Don

PS: I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but it looks like our leader is staying pretty clear of the public over the last few months.

Purhaps there is a melt down happening that is not being shared.

[EZM]

Once again we scratch at the surface of one comment made, in which the context may not be clear, and are ready to burn someone at the stake as it doesn't match our extremist and absolutist views.

BJ is not anti gun. Maybe do some research about who he is and what he does before lighting the fire here.

A perfect way to, once again, divide us and let the socialists and liberals become our elected leaders instead.

[play.soccer]

The NFA also says gun owners should become members of the liberal party.

[Gray Wolf]

The NFA also says gun owners should become members of the liberal party.

Credible link please
.

[makin tracks]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

great post , looks like some don't get it.

[EZM]

You do realize that the law has to be unbiased in its application. Sec. 91 applies to everyone from the old farmer to the gang banger. There are plenty of gang bangers in possession of firearms without a license where no other criminality is involved at the time of the possession offence. Get rid or reduce the penalty for Sec. 91 and it applies to the gang banger too. I rather the farmer gets his sh$& together and renew his PAL as opposed to let the gang banger get off with a fine.

Excellent point AND think about this ....

A gang banger can face 4 yrs sentence ...... because that's the maximum sentence.

A farmer who forgot to renew his PAL may not even get charged, and if he does, he might get a $50 fine.

Both of these "CRIMES" are prosecuted under the same statute.

So let's not pretend the gang banger is going to be treated the same way as the farmer. That's just being ignorant, absolutist and paranoid.

[Newview01]

I was not aware of Brian Jean's actual stance. It is now clear his public stance is one of political necessity, which is understandable.

For those who support the law, check your head. A PAL serves no other purpose than to hobble the freedoms of the law abiding. It would be just as easy to charge criminals who are in possession of a firearm as opposed to generally criminalizing the possession of a firearm unless the individual has the proper "paperwork".

[diamond k]

I was not aware of Brian Jean's actual stance. It is now clear his public stance is one of political necessity, which is understandable.

For those who support the law, check your head. A PAL serves no other purpose than to hobble the freedoms of the law abiding. It would be just as easy to charge criminals who are in possession of a firearm as opposed to generally criminalizing the possession of a firearm unless the individual has the proper "paperwork".

Every law we have in Canada ,without exception, would hobble someone's freedom under your definition so that argument is ludacris

I have no issue with the PAL requirement and have never seen a situation where someone was denied a PAL without adequate justification. I have heard stories but like most of them they usually fall apart when vetted out.

[Kristopher10]

I was not aware of Brian Jean's actual stance. It is now clear his public stance is one of political necessity, which is understandable.



For those who support the law, check your head. A PAL serves no other purpose than to hobble the freedoms of the law abiding. It would be just as easy to charge criminals who are in possession of a firearm as opposed to generally criminalizing the possession of a firearm unless the individual has the proper "paperwork".



If the PAL was abolished would you feel comfortable knowing that anyone without any kind of safety training can get a gun? I seem to remember that the firearms safety course was mandatory for obtaining a PAL. I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable meeting a hunter on the opposite side of a clearing who is unaware of how to handle a firearm safely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Newview01]

Every law we have in Canada ,without exception, would hobble someone's freedom under your definition so that argument is ludacris

.

Name a few.

[brendan's dad]

I was not aware of Brian Jean's actual stance. It is now clear his public stance is one of political necessity, which is understandable.

For those who support the law, check your head. A PAL serves no other purpose than to hobble the freedoms of the law abiding. It would be just as easy to charge criminals who are in possession of a firearm as opposed to generally criminalizing the possession of a firearm unless the individual has the proper "paperwork".

What would you charge the “criminal” with if there was no law criminalizing unauthorized possession. How would you suggest identifying mental health issues or persons not mentally sound enough to own firearms if there was no screening or licensing process? Mental health persons often don’t have criminal records.

[Newview01]

What would you charge the “criminal” with if there was no law criminalizing unauthorized possession. How would you suggest identifying mental health issues or persons not mentally sound enough to own firearms if there was no screening or licensing process? Mental health persons often don’t have criminal records.

Good questions.

The US has a fairly reasonable system overall. Those with documented mental illnesses are unable to purchase. Convicted felons cannot purchase.

I completely understand why the PAL system is seen as useful, but obtaining a firearm without a PAL is still not difficult.

Edit - as far as criminals possessing, if someone is convicted of a federal offense, or if a firearm is used in the commission of a crime, seems acceptable that said individual would be banned from owning firearms for a period of time befitting the crime.

[brendan's dad]

Good questions.

The US has a fairly reasonable system overall. Those with documented mental illnesses are unable to purchase. Convicted felons cannot purchase.

I completely understand why the PAL system is seen as useful, but obtaining a firearm without a PAL is still not difficult.

Edit - as far as criminals possessing, if someone is convicted of a federal offense, or if a firearm is used in the commission of a crime, seems acceptable that said individual would be banned from owning firearms for a period of time befitting the crime.

I think a person might seriously question the effectiveness of the US systems. I use the word “systems” because it is different in every state. My problem is how do you deal with criminals who have not yet been convicted of an offence or a mentally disturbed person not yet diagnosed. At least our system allows the CFO to look at criminal association and speak with family and references prior to issuing a license. It not a perfect system and I am sure some sneak through undetected, but everyday CFO’s are identifying applicants that are denied PAL’s for various reasons, so the system for most part is effective even if it is not 100% fool proof.

[covey ridge]

From the NFA’s facebook page.



I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.

I have no problem with Brian Jeans position on this. I do have a problem with your reasoning on this.

[Gray Wolf]

I have no problem with Brian Jeans position on this. I do have a problem with your reasoning on this.

Note how quickly you got a response :lol:

Maybe tomorrow he'll come back with
one of his ult-right zingers.

Time will tell. :)
.

[silverdoctor]

If the PAL was abolished would you feel comfortable knowing that anyone without any kind of safety training can get a gun?

Did safety training make you a better shooter? Did it educate you? How many people come on AO - after obtaining a PAL - and still ask stupid questions?

Anyone in Alberta that drives a car has a license - and they still don't know how to drive.

[brendan's dad]

Did safety training make you a better shooter? Did it educate you? How many people come on AO - after obtaining a PAL - and still ask stupid questions?

Anyone in Alberta that drives a car has a license - and they still don't know how to drive.


The PAL/RPAL course will not make you a better shooter... that take range time. Yes, it does educate persons on the safe handling of firearms. People come on AO to ask "stupid questions" because this is place where asking a fellow outdoorsmen for help and advice should be promoted.

If a person drives a vehicle without adhering to the rules of the road they are held accountable by law, just like firearms owners that don't play by the rules are accountable.

[silverdoctor]

The PAL/RPAL course will not make you a better shooter... that take range time. Yes, it does educate persons on the safe handling of firearms. People come on AO to ask "stupid questions" because this is place where asking a fellow outdoorsmen for help and advice should be promoted.


How many people in this country have a PAL and firearms that shouldn't? Licensing doesn't seem to accomplish much - you can't fix stupid. Much of firearms is about common sense - but that's out the window. I hunted in our teens, was never shown much about safety and I never shot anyone either.

Licensing is simply about control.


If a person drives a vehicle without adhering to the rules of the road they are held accountable by law, just like firearms owners that don't play by the rules are accountable.

Yeah, ok. How many times do we hear of drunk drivers being arrested over and over - no accountability - back on the road they go. Idiot drivers, no accountability.

[Newview01]

Note how quickly you got a response :lol:

Maybe tomorrow he'll come back with
one of his ult-right zingers.

Time will tell. :)
.

What is your definition of alt-right?

[Newview01]

The PAL/RPAL course will not make you a better shooter... that take range time. Yes, it does educate persons on the safe handling of firearms. People come on AO to ask "stupid questions" because this is place where asking a fellow outdoorsmen for help and advice should be promoted.

If a person drives a vehicle without adhering to the rules of the road they are held accountable by law, just like firearms owners that don't play by the rules are accountable.

I am a proponent of getting rid of licensing, but mandatory training prior to the first purchase.

As stated, licensing is purely a regulatory thing, If the focus would switch to safety we would be a lot further ahead.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Which political party was in power during the High River Gun Grab and supported the 'gun grab'?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/06/high-river-gun-grab-a-massive-breach-of-civil-rights

I think it is better that the truth be spoken now.

[normstad]

Did safety training make you a better shooter? Did it educate you? How many people come on AO - after obtaining a PAL - and still ask stupid questions?

Anyone in Alberta that drives a car has a license - and they still don't know how to drive.

I would rather everyone had firearm safety training than not. Sure, not everyone will retain, but enough will to make a difference.

[normstad]

What is your definition of alt-right?

Why don't we go with the inventor of the term, White Supremacist Richard Spencer. You know, the neo-Nazi who just organized another march in Charlottesville.

I'll throw in isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic, antifeminist, misogynistic, homophobiac, right-wing populist, and part of the neoreactionary movement.

In other words, a typical Trump supporter. About 30% of US males, unfortunately, and it appears, a whole bunch right here also.

Or as many of us in normal Conservative parties used to call them, right wing wackos.

[Selkirk]

Which political party was in power during the High River Gun Grab and supported the 'gun grab'?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/06/high-river-gun-grab-a-massive-breach-of-civil-rights

I think it is better that the truth be spoken now.




That ^ 'Truth' was spoken long ago, way back in 2013. I remember it well, like it was yesterday.

The Real test is to see how many remember now. Sadly, most don't.

And now, many of those same *&^%$# PC's are part of the UCP :mad0100:


Selkirk

[hal53]

Which political party was in power during the High River Gun Grab and supported the 'gun grab'?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/06/high-river-gun-grab-a-massive-breach-of-civil-rights

I think it is better that the truth be spoken now.
The Red Tories were in power...the grab can be laid at the feet of the Municipal Affairs Minister at the time......

[Newview01]

Why don't we go with the inventor of the term, White Supremacist Richard Spencer. You know, the neo-Nazi who just organized another march in Charlottesville.

I'll throw in isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic, antifeminist, misogynistic, homophobiac, right-wing populist, and part of the neoreactionary movement.

In other words, a typical Trump supporter. About 30% of US males, unfortunately, and it appears, a whole bunch right here also.

Or as many of us in normal Conservative parties used to call them, right wing wackos.

Well that escalated quickly.

If that is the case, then no, I am not alt-right. And neither are 30% of US males.

[CBintheNorth]

Why don't we go with the inventor of the term, White Supremacist Richard Spencer. You know, the neo-Nazi who just organized another march in Charlottesville.

I'll throw in isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic, antifeminist, misogynistic, homophobiac, right-wing populist, and part of the neoreactionary movement.

In other words, a typical Trump supporter. About 30% of US males, unfortunately, and it appears, a whole bunch right here also.

Or as many of us in normal Conservative parties used to call them, right wing wackos.

Wonderful.
So anyone not in "your" normal, self-professed conservative group or is akin to Hitler.
Got it.
There's a word for people like you, I just can't use it here.
Enjoy the decline.

[CBintheNorth]

For Brian to take a stand on something so foolish, especially since it won't change anything, would be stupid AND political suicide.
He's getting my vote and several others in my group.

[brendan's dad]

How many people in this country have a PAL and firearms that shouldn't? Licensing doesn't seem to accomplish much - you can't fix stupid. Much of firearms is about common sense - but that's out the window. I hunted in our teens, was never shown much about safety and I never shot anyone either.

Licensing is simply about control.



Yeah, ok. How many times do we hear of drunk drivers being arrested over and over - no accountability - back on the road they go. Idiot drivers, no accountability.

So you are also in the camp that if a law or procedure does not 100% stop crime or a public safety risk then we should just get rid of it?

If there was no licensing, how many more criminals and mentally disturbed persons would be able to legally purchase and possess firearms. Just because Criminals obtain firearms by illegal means, doesn't justify abolishing laws or getting rid of licensing. If you do that, then when the Criminal or Mentally Disturbed person acquires a firearm then it will no longer be illegal.

Sometime I feel you guys don't even know what you are asking for.

And why would you want a background and waiting period every time you buy a gun. I have my PAL/RPAL and can walk into any firearms retailer and walk out the same day with my firearm; non-restricted or restricted. I renew my firearms license every 5 years and I am good to go. If I do anything which questions my ability to safely own firearms then my license is reviewed at that time. If I don't commit a crime or go crazy and I have nothing to worry about.

Maybe the better question is why would you want a system (or lack there of) that allows criminals and mentally disturbed person easier access to legally obtained firearms. Sure they can probably go get a firearm illegally, but why make it easier for them by removing any legal requirements?

Baffling.....

[play.soccer]

Credible link please
.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1623191-The-NFA-advises-gun-owners-to-buy-a-Liberal-party-membership

[silverdoctor]

So you are also in the camp that if a law or procedure does not 100% stop crime or a public safety risk then we should just get rid of it?

If there was no licensing, how many more criminals and mentally disturbed persons would be able to legally purchase and possess firearms. Just because Criminals obtain firearms by illegal means, doesn't justify abolishing laws or getting rid of licensing. If you do that, then when the Criminal or Mentally Disturbed person acquires a firearm then it will no longer be illegal.

Sometime I feel you guys don't even know what you are asking for.

And why would you want a background and waiting period every time you buy a gun. I have my PAL/RPAL and can walk into any firearms retailer and walk out the same day with my firearm; non-restricted or restricted. I renew my firearms license every 5 years and I am good to go. If I do anything which questions my ability to safely own firearms then my license is reviewed at that time. If I don't commit a crime or go crazy and I have nothing to worry about.

Maybe the better question is why would you want a system (or lack there of) that allows criminals and mentally disturbed person easier access to legally obtained firearms. Sure they can probably go get a firearm illegally, but why make it easier for them by removing any legal requirements?

Baffling.....

Let's rewind to 1989 shall we? Marc Lepine felt feminists ruined his life so he went on a shooting spree. He obtained an FAC, legally bought a Ruger Mini-14 and did the deed. This was THE event that forced the creation of the firearms act.

Stephen Paddock LEGALLY purchased firearms to slaughter and injure hundreds. Did licensing or controls help?

I don't even own a firearm, nor do I have a PAL. Do I walk down the street in fear that I may get shot? No. I don't understand this fear and confusion, and I'm tired of peoples fears feeding new laws.

[grouse_hunter]

Well said, Silverdoctor.

[brendan's dad]

Let's rewind to 1989 shall we? Marc Lepine felt feminists ruined his life so he went on a shooting spree. He obtained an FAC, legally bought a Ruger Mini-14 and did the deed. This was THE event that forced the creation of the firearms act.

Stephen Paddock LEGALLY purchased firearms to slaughter and injure hundreds. Did licensing or controls help?

I don't even own a firearm, nor do I have a PAL. Do I walk down the street in fear that I may get shot? No. I don't understand this fear and confusion, and I'm tired of peoples fears feeding new laws.


Nevada doesn't have licensing or controls of any type to speak of.....

http://www.nevadacarry.org/

Weapon laws​ (NRS Ch. 202)
Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else.

and

In relation to the Polytechnique shooting, the vast majority of gun owners agree with some form of licensing and training prior to firearm ownership. The introduction of the PAL/RPAL and the required training was an update and name change to the FAC licensing and training. The real issues that most firearms owners had with the legislation changes were in relation to classification and the whole "if it looks scary it should be restricted or prohibited."

But really if you don't have a PAL and have never taken the training, how are you commenting on it's value and effectiveness?

[silverdoctor]

Nevada doesn't have licensing or controls of any type to speak of.....

http://www.nevadacarry.org/

Weapon laws​ (NRS Ch. 202)
Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else.

and

In relation to the Polytechnique shooting, the vast majority of gun owners agree with some form of licensing and training prior to firearm ownership. The introduction of the PAL/RPAL and the required training was an update and name change to the FAC licensing and training. The real issues that most firearms owners had with the legislation changes were in relation to classification and the whole "if it looks scary it should be restricted or prohibited."

But really if you don't have a PAL and have never taken the training, how are you commenting on it's value and effectiveness?

No skin in the game argument eh? How effective is the training and licensing really? This shouldn't be happening and these are just a few. There are licensed firearms owners in Canada (and on AO) that should not have firearms. You can't fix stupid - and you cannot teach common sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-hunter-dies-after-accidental-shooting-1.1158946

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/son-shot-by-father-dies-in-hunting-accident-rcmp-say-1.1234700

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/lake-country-hunter-was-killed-in-an-accident/


Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the USA - explain the murder and violent crimes rates for me will you? Gun control DOES NOT WORK! It's all about control of a percentage of the population.


You know how simple it would be for Trudeau to remove firearms from the hands of Canadians? Expire all PAL's, that simple - and you're automatically a criminal.



But, we're off topic. Brian Jean supporting some of the current Criminal Code rules of Canada is political. Harper could have killed off the firearms act, but didn't. Why? It would be political suicide cause most of our country is gone left - and the right doesn't do anything about it. I don't think there's any group in Canada that is more divided that firearms owners.

[Jigger]

Why don't we go with the inventor of the term, White Supremacist Richard Spencer. You know, the neo-Nazi who just organized another march in Charlottesville.

I'll throw in isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic, antifeminist, misogynistic, homophobiac, right-wing populist, and part of the neoreactionary movement.

In other words, a typical Trump supporter. About 30% of US males, unfortunately, and it appears, a whole bunch right here also.

Or as many of us in normal Conservative parties used to call them, right wing wackos.

ttttttrigggggered LOL

[brendan's dad]

No skin in the game argument eh? How effective is the training and licensing really? This shouldn't be happening and these are just a few. There are licensed firearms owners in Canada (and on AO) that should not have firearms. You can't fix stupid - and you cannot teach common sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-hunter-dies-after-accidental-shooting-1.1158946

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/son-shot-by-father-dies-in-hunting-accident-rcmp-say-1.1234700

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/lake-country-hunter-was-killed-in-an-accident/


Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the USA - explain the murder and violent crimes rates for me will you? Gun control DOES NOT WORK! It's all about control of a percentage of the population.


You know how simple it would be for Trudeau to remove firearms from the hands of Canadians? Expire all PAL's, that simple - and you're automatically a criminal.



But, we're off topic. Brian Jean supporting some of the current Criminal Code rules of Canada is political. Harper could have killed off the firearms act, but didn't. Why? It would be political suicide cause most of our country is gone left - and the right doesn't do anything about it. I don't think there's any group in Canada that is more divided that firearms owners.

So how would you identify these idiots that shouldn't have firearms?

How would you effectively train people to safely handle firearms?

Common sense does not necessarily make a person safe with a firearm. There are technical skills and knowledge required. If common sense is lacking then "step by step" procedures such as "ACTS" and "PROVE" is essential for safe handling.


And the original post by the OP was in relation to Sec. 91 C.C. which is unauthorized possession. Unauthorized possession occurs in Canada when a person is not licensed, so I am not sure how discussing licensing is off topic. Maybe your point of view is getting harder to defend, so a change subject might be easier for you to stay involved in the conversation.

[normstad]

Well that escalated quickly.

If that is the case, then no, I am not alt-right. And neither are 30% of US males.

Yeah, I was a bit off. Closer to 9%.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-neo-nazi-support-american-public-charlottesville-white-supremacists-kkk-far-right-poll-a7907091.html

Not all Trump supporters are alt-right. Many, but not all, and some who support him are good people.

[silverdoctor]

So how would you identify these idiots that shouldn't have firearms?

How many news stories would you like? do I really have to do the footwork and search AO?

Didn't know the gun was loaded? You can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/21/man-shoots-himself-trying-to-kill-a-mouse


How would you effectively train people to safely handle firearms?

Simple answer? You can't. Explain to me how so many people in Edmonton have a license to drive a car - and still can't drive. It's like the old addage goes - winter hits and people forget how to drive. No, you've taken a group of people that can't navigate a car on a clear summer day - and thrown snow at them. Wait for the first major snowfall for proof of that.

Do you really want to play the assumption that every Canadian with a PAL is 100% safe to own a firearm?


Common sense does not necessarily make a person safe with a firearm. There are technical skills and knowledge required. If common sense is lacking then "step by step" procedures such as "ACTS" and "PROVE" is essential for safe handling.

Don't even know what to say to that. At 12, nobody had to tell me the rules. Don't point a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot. know what you're shooting at, know what's behind the target etc... That's all common sense.


And the original post by the OP was in relation to Sec. 91 C.C. which is unauthorized possession. Unauthorized possession occurs in Canada when a person is not licensed, so I am not sure how discussing licensing is off topic. Maybe your point of view is getting harder to defend, so a change subject might be easier for you to stay involved in the conversation.

According to the RCMP, there's roughly 3 million firearms owners in Canada, you're a small minority. The liberals in Canada are growing - but there's a very large population in the country like me who support firearms ownership even though we don't own. Together, I would say we are a majority. But, you want to keep alienating people that support you - and keep backing yourself into a corner, then you'll find yourselves on your own.

Remember, we are but one massacre away from firearms prohibition. That little plastic card in your wallet - that most feel gives you a "right" to own firearms is only a permission slip. One shooting spree in Canada, and I can see Trudeau passing a law to expire all PAL's immediately. Automatic criminals.


And I love how you sidestep the question on Chicago.

Gun control does not work.

[brendan's dad]

How many news stories would you like? do I really have to do the footwork and search AO?

Didn't know the gun was loaded? You can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/21/man-shoots-himself-trying-to-kill-a-mouse



Simple answer? You can't. Explain to me how so many people in Edmonton have a license to drive a car - and still can't drive. It's like the old addage goes - winter hits and people forget how to drive. No, you've taken a group of people that can't navigate a car on a clear summer day - and thrown snow at them. Wait for the first major snowfall for proof of that.

Do you really want to play the assumption that every Canadian with a PAL is 100% safe to own a firearm?



Don't even know what to say to that. At 12, nobody had to tell me the rules. Don't point a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot. know what you're shooting at, know what's behind the target etc... That's all common sense.



According to the RCMP, there's roughly 3 million firearms owners in Canada, you're a small minority. The liberals in Canada are growing - but there's a very large population in the country like me who support firearms ownership even though we don't own. Together, I would say we are a majority. But, you want to keep alienating people that support you - and keep backing yourself into a corner, then you'll find yourselves on your own.

Remember, we are but one massacre away from firearms prohibition. That little plastic card in your wallet - that most feel gives you a "right" to own firearms is only a permission slip. One shooting spree in Canada, and I can see Trudeau passing a law to expire all PAL's immediately. Automatic criminals.


And I love how you sidestep the question on Chicago.

Gun control does not work.

The scary part is that you believe your views actually benefit lawful gun owners. All your attitude does is create an “us vs them” mentality. If organizations like the NRA or NFA put effort into promoting gun safety and making it more difficult for criminals to obtain firearms, we as firearms owners would have a lot less to worry about. But as owners we will always have extremist in our midst that make the situation worst and cry that the sky is falling and all our guns will be taken away. Just not very often is the extremist not a firearms owner, but to each his own.

Have a good day and thanks for your concern:thinking-006:

[silverdoctor]

The scary part is that you believe your views actually benefit lawful gun owners. All your attitude does is create an “us vs them” mentality. If organizations like the NRA or NFA put effort into promoting gun safety and making it more difficult for criminals to obtain firearms, we as firearms owners would have a lot less to worry about. But as owners we will always have extremist in our midst that make the situation worst and cry that the sky is falling and all our guns will be taken away. Just not very often is the extremist not a firearms owner, but to each his own.

Have a good day and thanks for your concern:thinking-006:

Thank for the laugh but owners are doing a wonderful job of segregating themselves. .

Trudeau was elected almost 2 years ago and hasn't really touched on the election promises his party made about firearms.

I suspect there's going to be alot of complaining and moaning in the next few months.

Enjoy! It'll be interesting when reclassification is back in the hands of your friendly neighborhood RCMP.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/guns/

https://globalnews.ca/news/3785263/gun-control-justin-trudeau-liberals-broken-promises/

[EZM]

I am a proponent of getting rid of licensing, but mandatory training prior to the first purchase.

As stated, licensing is purely a regulatory thing, If the focus would switch to safety we would be a lot further ahead.

So if something ( a law or regulation) doesn't prevent absolutely 100%of the problems it's designed to prevent it's useless and should be thrown out?

Makes zero sense to me.

Yet - You would make firearm safety training "a mandatory regulation" but you do realise that is PRECISELY what a PAL does don't you? It tracks individual and confirms they have passed the firearms safety course and registers your name making you, subsequently, eligible to purchase and own a firearm. Nothing more - nothing less.

What other "nefarious"purpose does the PAL serve? Is there a "conspiracy" of some sort we are victims of?

And ........ how does a PAL "hobble" the law abiding if you are following the laws?

And ..... you think there shouldn't be a law against owning or possessing a firearms without the appropriate licenses or permissions? Is this your position?

It makes absolutely no sense to me. This is a serious question ....???? I'm genuinely curious.

[covey ridge]

How would you effectively train people to safely handle firearms?


Simple answer? You can't.

^^^^^^^ If you actually believe that, it is the best reason I have ever seen for the total ban on firearms.

You don't speak for me!

[covey ridge]

You know how simple it would be for Trudeau to remove firearms from the hands of Canadians? Expire all PAL's, that simple - and you're automatically a criminal.


With your attitude that training will not help, I would think it would be a lot easier for any government to do just that.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Which political party initiated a tax to be levied on shooting ranges on Crown Land ?

[silverdoctor]

With your attitude that training will not help, I would think it would be a lot easier for any government to do just that.

Why would my attitude matter? i'm not in government, I'm not after your firearms - and I don't vote. I'm like the enemy to you and that's typical. If you don't own a firearm, then you have no skin in the game and are basically the enemy.

And my attitude is the problem?

The majority of Canada has no problem with firearms ownership. Unfortunately, you're getting beaten by the minority.

[Newview01]

So if something ( a law or regulation) doesn't prevent absolutely 100%of the problems it's designed to prevent it's useless and should be thrown out?

Makes zero sense to me.

Yet - You would make firearm safety training "a mandatory regulation" but you do realise that is PRECISELY what a PAL does don't you? It tracks individual and confirms they have passed the firearms safety course and registers your name making you, subsequently, eligible to purchase and own a firearm. Nothing more - nothing less.

What other "nefarious"purpose does the PAL serve? Is there a "conspiracy" of some sort we are victims of?

And ........ how does a PAL "hobble" the law abiding if you are following the laws?

And ..... you think there shouldn't be a law against owning or possessing a firearms without the appropriate licenses or permissions? Is this your position?

It makes absolutely no sense to me. This is a serious question ....???? I'm genuinely curious.

A PAL course hardly teaches safety, not in my experience anyway. What I am getting at is that there should be hands on training, live ammo, etc.

And the PAL system prevents very little crime, not even close to 100%. So yes, when a law generally does not prevent the crime, it effectively renders the law useless. See the drug laws, for example.

So yes, I believe that there should not be restrictions on firearms ownership provided one is not engaged in criminal behavior. The restriction in that case would not come into effect until the criminal was charged.

Obviously we shouldn't count on a change for the better in Canada anytime soon, but it doesn't mean we can't dream....

[Kristopher10]

A PAL course hardly teaches safety, not in my experience anyway. What I am getting at is that there should be hands on training, live ammo, etc.



And the PAL system prevents very little crime, not even close to 100%. So yes, when a law generally does not prevent the crime, it effectively renders the law useless. See the drug laws, for example.



So yes, I believe that there should not be restrictions on firearms ownership provided one is not engaged in criminal behavior. The restriction in that case would not come into effect until the criminal was charged.



Obviously we shouldn't count on a change for the better in Canada anytime soon, but it doesn't mean we can't dream....



How would you suggest enforcing these restrictions once a criminal is charged? The only way I can see it working is for every retailer and private seller performing a criminal background check on every single transaction involving a firearm, which sounds expensive and likely wouldn’t occur every time a firearm is sold anyway.

A PAL already does essentially what you want. If someone commits a crime that warrants no possession of firearms their PAL is revoked, simple as that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Okotokian]

From the NFA’s facebook page.



I thought Brian Jean was more gun-friendly.

He will not get my vote.


So you are saying that if some guy is converting semi's to full automatic in his basement and has 50 of them stockpiled, there should be no criminal charges? That's non-violent and non-victim, right? I'm sorry, I'm with Jean on that one.

[silverdoctor]

How did we ever survive before 1995? Lets change the rules and go back to the FAC - the FAC didn't criminalize you like the PAL does. Government and police can't control the criminal element of society, and they know this - but they can control you. A law abiding citizen.

If you want to own firearms in Canada, you're basically treated like a criminal - just because you want to buy and own a few guns. That fair? People have been made to be afraid of firearms - not the person behind the trigger. When I was young, it was nothing for us to move around dressed in blaze orange and sporting rifles to go hunting. If we bagged a moose, the head was tied to the hood of the truck - people were happy for you, freezer full of meat. Try that now. How and why did a semi-auto rifle become an assault rifle?

Not IF, but WHEN Trudeau changes the laws and puts firearms reclassification back in the hands of the RCMP - CZ858 and many others will likely be reclassified to prohibited and you won't have a safety net this time around. You are going to be a criminal simply because you legally bought one of these firearms.


The ones that are supportive of the PAL system, let me ask you this...? If you didn't have a PAL, would you be out shooting up society? I trust that you wouldn't.

Every general discussion surrounding firearms and laws on AO, you can clearly see the division.

[silverdoctor]

So you are saying that if some guy is converting semi's to full automatic in his basement and has 50 of them stockpiled, there should be no criminal charges? That's non-violent and non-victim, right? I'm sorry, I'm with Jean on that one.

Ever go through a check stop Oki? Only to realize, oh crap, my license is expired. Or your registration is expired, or forgot to grab that new updated insurance card? Now you have the deer in the headlight look facing a cop?

The law is stated clearly. If your PAL expires, then you are in criminal possession of a firearm subject to the same consequences. And Trudeau will make sure that this is the case.

Don't you think changes should be made?

[Okotokian]

Ever go through a check stop Oki? Only to realize, oh crap, my license is expired. Or your registration is expired, or forgot to grab that new updated insurance card? Now you have the deer in the headlight look facing a cop?

The law is stated clearly. If your PAL expires, then you are in criminal possession of a firearm subject to the same consequences. And Trudeau will make sure that this is the case.

Don't you think changes should be made?


Sure, on that one I agree there should be no criminal charge. But the original post and question allegedly put to Jean was whether he thought that non-victim, non-violent offenses should be decriminalized. I just gave you one example that fits that description that I DEFININITELY think should not be decriminalized. Unfortunately they didn't ask Jean if he thought that people who's PAL expired should be charged under the criminal code.

[silverdoctor]

Sure, on that one I agree there should be no criminal charge. But the original post and question allegedly put to Jean was whether he thought that non-victim, non-violent offenses should be decriminalized. I just gave you one example that fits that description that I DEFININITELY think should not be decriminalized. Unfortunately they didn't ask Jean if he thought that people who's PAL expired should be charged under the criminal code.

So we do agree. Unfortunately, you are a criminal in waiting if you have a PAL. The laws need to change, criminals are the ones that need to be punished but unfortunately, we are all treated like we are guilty.

[brendan's dad]

How did we ever survive before 1995? Lets change the rules and go back to the FAC - the FAC didn't criminalize you like the PAL does. Government and police can't control the criminal element of society, and they know this - but they can control you. A law abiding citizen.

If you want to own firearms in Canada, you're basically treated like a criminal - just because you want to buy and own a few guns. That fair? People have been made to be afraid of firearms - not the person behind the trigger. When I was young, it was nothing for us to move around dressed in blaze orange and sporting rifles to go hunting. If we bagged a moose, the head was tied to the hood of the truck - people were happy for you, freezer full of meat. Try that now. How and why did a semi-auto rifle become an assault rifle?

Not IF, but WHEN Trudeau changes the laws and puts firearms reclassification back in the hands of the RCMP - CZ858 and many others will likely be reclassified to prohibited and you won't have a safety net this time around. You are going to be a criminal simply because you legally bought one of these firearms.


The ones that are supportive of the PAL system, let me ask you this...? If you didn't have a PAL, would you be out shooting up society? I trust that you wouldn't.

Every general discussion surrounding firearms and laws on AO, you can clearly see the division.

People have a real misunderstanding of the "Lab". Originally in 1995 the Firearms Lab fell under the umbrella of the RCMP. Shortly after this time the "Lab" was moved under the umbrella of the Department of Justice. In 2006 the "Lab" was moved back under the umbrella of the RCMP and has remained under the RCMP since. During this 30 years the staff has remained the same and just change job classifications from Public Servant's (DOJ)to Civilian Member's (RCMP). The "Lab" has always been responsible for the classification of firearms. What we saw under the PC was that the Public Safety Minister would suppress certain Lab decisions and not allow them to be enforced by police. When the Liberal government got in, Trudeau statement in reference to putting the decision making back in the hands of the RCMP, was indicating that his public safety minister would not interfere with Lab opinions and decisions.

Also there has been an amnesty for expired PAL's in place for almost 10 years and was just extended for another year by the Liberal government. This Amnesty allows persons with expired PAL's to come into compliance without fear of prosecution.

The only fear that most reasonable owners have right now is that the extremist views of few firearms owner (and maybe a few non-owners) makes us look like a bunch idiots that have no regard for public safety or rules laws. As I said before thanks for your concerns, but please stop as your commentary and views do nothing to help the cause of law abiding gun owners.

Here a little history lesson for you, take note of 1976. At the same time they were outlawing fully automatic firearms, a firearm licensing system was put in place for possession and acquisition. Maybe you childhood memories were from a different country!

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/pol-leg/hist/con-eng.htm

[silverdoctor]

People have a real misunderstanding of the "Lab". Originally in 1995 the Firearms Lab fell under the umbrella of the RCMP. Shortly after this time the "Lab" was moved under the umbrella of the Department of Justice. In 2006 the "Lab" was moved back under the umbrella of the RCMP and has remained under the RCMP since. During this 30 years the staff has remained the same and just change job classifications from Public Servant's (DOJ)to Civilian Member's (RCMP). The "Lab" has always been responsible for the classification of firearms. What we saw under the PC was that the Public Safety Minister would suppress certain Lab decisions and not allow them to be enforced by police. When the Liberal government got in, Trudeau statement in reference to putting the decision making back in the hands of the RCMP, was indicating that his public safety minister would not interfere with Lab opinions and decisions.

Also there has been an amnesty for expired PAL's in place for almost 10 years and was just extended for another year by the Liberal government. This Amnesty allows persons with expired PAL's to come into compliance without fear of prosecution.

The only fear that most reasonable owners have right now is that the extremist views of few firearms owner (and maybe a few non-owners) makes us look like a bunch idiots that have no regard for public safety or rules laws. As I said before thanks for your concerns, but please stop as your commentary and views do nothing to help the cause of law abiding gun owners.

Here a little history lesson for you, take note of 1976. At the same time they were outlawing fully automatic firearms, a firearm licensing system was put in place for possession and acquisition. Maybe you childhood memories were from a different country!

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/pol-leg/hist/con-eng.htm

And what has changed in the last 30+ years?

Propaganda machine - media, government, police, bleeding heart liberals - all wanting people to fear firearms. What used to be a semi-auto hunting rifle is now considered an assault weapon - just because it looks black and scary. The RCMP are not your friends when it comes to firearms.

When the FAC came into play back in the 70's, you only needed it to purchase firearms - not to own them. It was a pretty quick process, one page application police did a quick background check and you were good to go. Now they rip your life apart - and even after you get say an RPAL, they are pretty much doing consistent checks on you to make sure you're still a "valid individual". Under the FAC, if all you wanted to buy was 3 rifles and no more - feel free to tear up the old FAC - you didn't need it to OWN the firearms.

So yeah, give me a history lesson will you?

This is our society today...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5a/5a594c30c37db765a820796ab96b94d3283cbd143afe0af99b a0480d6ae0f7c8.jpgG]

[EZM]

Ever go through a check stop Oki? Only to realize, oh crap, my license is expired. Or your registration is expired, or forgot to grab that new updated insurance card? Now you have the deer in the headlight look facing a cop?

The law is stated clearly. If your PAL expires, then you are in criminal possession of a firearm subject to the same consequences. And Trudeau will make sure that this is the case.

Don't you think changes should be made?

OK .......... hold on here a second ........... almost every law have reasonable provisions for summary offences under the same statutes.

YES- You CAN be charged, under a criminal offence, and spend up to 4 years in prison BUT - it's likely, in the scenario you suggested as above (where your PAL dates have lapsed) you will likely be charged with a summary offence and pay a $50 Fine.

The criminal gets the 4 years - as he should.

But you, who forgot to renew your PAL, gets a $50 dollar reminder.

Just like you can get a $50 speeding ticket as a summary offence OR you can get a court appearance and face criminal charges/suspensions for speeding if the offense is serious/dangerous enough.

I'm pretty sure we are not going to turn into a police state overnight and target the law abiding gun owners - because Trudeau is out to get you? are you suggesting that?

[EZM]

A PAL course hardly teaches safety, not in my experience anyway. What I am getting at is that there should be hands on training, live ammo, etc.

And the PAL system prevents very little crime, not even close to 100%. So yes, when a law generally does not prevent the crime, it effectively renders the law useless. See the drug laws, for example.

So yes, I believe that there should not be restrictions on firearms ownership provided one is not engaged in criminal behavior. The restriction in that case would not come into effect until the criminal was charged.

Obviously we shouldn't count on a change for the better in Canada anytime soon, but it doesn't mean we can't dream....

So, you would want a mechanism where a person can prove he/she is not restricted (as a criminal) from owning a firearm?

Kinda like what a PAL does right?

LOL

[brendan's dad]

And what has changed in the last 30+ years?

Propaganda machine - media, government, police, bleeding heart liberals - all wanting people to fear firearms. What used to be a semi-auto hunting rifle is now considered an assault weapon - just because it looks black and scary. The RCMP are not your friends when it comes to firearms.

When the FAC came into play back in the 70's, you only needed it to purchase firearms - not to own them. It was a pretty quick process, one page application police did a quick background check and you were good to go. Now they rip your life apart - and even after you get say an RPAL, they are pretty much doing consistent checks on you to make sure you're still a "valid individual". Under the FAC, if all you wanted to buy was 3 rifles and no more - feel free to tear up the old FAC - you didn't need it to OWN the firearms.

So yeah, give me a history lesson will you?

This is our society today...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5a/5a594c30c37db765a820796ab96b94d3283cbd143afe0af99b a0480d6ae0f7c8.jpgG]

I feel sorry that you view living in Canada as an orphan begging for more food. As a Canadian and firearms owner I am generally happy with the society and system we have in place. If given the opportunity would I change a few things to both? Sure, but I can't see myself in government anytime soon.
When I applied for my PAL, I certainly didn't feel as though my life was ripped apart. And of course the CFC will be aware when your PAL expires, kinda like Costco knowing when your membership is due.
If you are involved in criminal activity, domestic dispute, or Mental Health incident then the CFO is notified by the responding agency and they will determine whether a license review is warranted. Sound like a reasonable and accountable system to me. I guess the CFC and CFO's could bury their heads in the sand and turn a blind eye to these types of things, but the public demands better.
You sound very angry at the system but do not own firearms, were once a firearms owner and had them taken away unjustly? Did you refuse to update your FAC to a PAL to boycott the change? What gives?

[silverdoctor]

I feel sorry that you view living in Canada as an orphan begging for more food. As a Canadian and firearms owner I am generally happy with the society and system we have in place. If given the opportunity would I change a few things to both? Sure, but I can't see myself in government anytime soon.
When I applied for my PAL, I certainly didn't feel as though my life was ripped apart. And of course the CFC will be aware when your PAL expires, kinda like Costco knowing when your membership is due.
If you are involved in criminal activity, domestic dispute, or Mental Health incident then the CFO is notified by the responding agency and they will determine whether a license review is warranted. Sound like a reasonable and accountable system to me. I guess the CFC and CFO's could bury their heads in the sand and turn a blind eye to these types of things, but the public demands better.
You sound very angry at the system but do not own firearms, were once a firearms owner and had them taken away unjustly? Did you refuse to update your FAC to a PAL to boycott the change? What gives?

personally, I'm getting fed up with everything - so consider it a boycott. I love shooting but it seems nobody else cares, happy to go along. Don't rock the boat cause it might get worse. The only actual "rights" you have left in this country is the right to believe in a god and the right to speak french. Oh, and you have the right to complain about government, that's something everyone is good at. That is all, everything else has been stripped in the name of fear and public safety - everything is permission based. Think the Charter of rights and freedom allows protection? It doesn't, you don't have inalienable rights in Canada. If anyone breaches your charter rights, there is no tribunal or commission to help you - your only real option is court. Where there is no remedy, there is no right.

I don't bother with concerts or other public venues anymore due to the idea of "implied consent". Everyone wants to search you in the name of public safety, and it's amazing how many people believe they have authority over me. I don't go to bars anymore that scan drivers licenses but yet, people lap it up. If everyone that is concerned about privacy would simply boycott - then much of this will stop. But no, people are scared sheep. Boycott won't work with firearms, if you boycott then gov't and police would likely be very happy to take your firearms wouldn't they.

You can thank your political God Stephen Harper for most of this - but nobody wants to read the news or get into the background of it. You can thank Harper for having Trudeau at the helm of this country now cause he was arrogant enough to believe that he would get another majority when most of the country was sick of him.

I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember. I really want to puke in my mouth whenever I hear anyone say that our forefathers fought for the freedom we have today. We are not free as a nation anymore. 30 million adults in Canada controlled by what, 500 politicians? If my great grandfather (fought and injured in the battle of the Somme) crawled out of the grave tomorrow, he'd likely go on a shooting spree for giving up what we have.

I didn't grow up in a scared society, but I've watched helplessly as it evolved. And it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart to see what happened to a once proud Canada - true North strong and free indeed.

But, if you want to protest any of this, feel free to apply for a permit.

[covey ridge]

personally, I'm getting fed up with everything - so consider it a boycott. I love shooting but it seems nobody else cares, happy to go along. Don't rock the boat cause it might get worse. The only actual "rights" you have left in this country is the right to believe in a god and the right to speak french. Oh, and you have the right to complain about government, that's something everyone is good at. That is all, everything else has been stripped in the name of fear and public safety - everything is permission based. Think the Charter of rights and freedom allows protection? It doesn't, you don't have inalienable rights in Canada. If anyone breaches your charter rights, there is no tribunal or commission to help you - your only real option is court. Where there is no remedy, there is no right.

I don't bother with concerts or other public venues anymore due to the idea of "implied consent". Everyone wants to search you in the name of public safety, and it's amazing how many people believe they have authority over me. I don't go to bars anymore that scan drivers licenses but yet, people lap it up. If everyone that is concerned about privacy would simply boycott - then much of this will stop. But no, people are scared sheep. Boycott won't work with firearms, if you boycott then gov't and police would likely be very happy to take your firearms wouldn't they.

You can thank your political God Stephen Harper for most of this - but nobody wants to read the news or get into the background of it. You can thank Harper for having Trudeau at the helm of this country now cause he was arrogant enough to believe that he would get another majority when most of the country was sick of him.

I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember. I really want to puke in my mouth whenever I hear anyone say that our forefathers fought for the freedom we have today. We are not free as a nation anymore. 30 million adults in Canada controlled by what, 500 politicians? If my great grandfather (fought and injured in the battle of the Somme) crawled out of the grave tomorrow, he'd likely go on a shooting spree for giving up what we have.

I didn't grow up in a scared society, but I've watched helplessly as it evolved. And it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart to see what happened to a once proud Canada - true North strong and free indeed.

But, if you want to protest any of this, feel free to apply for a permit.


Wow! It sure must suck to be you? But fret no more. There is light at the end of the tunnel:) Thanks to Trudeau, pot will soon be legal and you can stay at home and smoke away your troubles:bad_boys_20:

[silverdoctor]

Wow! It sure must suck to be you? But fret no more. There is light at the end of the tunnel:) Thanks to Trudeau, pot will soon be legal and you can stay at home and smoke away your troubles:bad_boys_20:

And thanks to Harper, you're soon going to face more restrictions on firearms. Enjoy it cause you won't do anything about it but complain.

And yes, I will be glad when weed is legalized, going to allow for research into medical treatments and cures. Israel is currently leading the way on weed research, verifying that it treats a wide variety of illness and disease with no serious side effects - but I wouldn't expect ignorant people to know that.

[catnthehat]

And thanks to Harper, you're soon going to face more restrictions on firearms. Enjoy it cause you won't do anything about it but complain.

And yes, I will be glad when weed is legalized, going to allow for research into medical treatments and cures. Israel is currently leading the way on weed research, verifying that it treats a wide variety of illness and disease - but I wouldn't expect ignorant people to know that.

Harper is retired last I looked.
Cat

[huntsfurfish]

personally, I'm getting fed up with everything - so consider it a boycott. I love shooting but it seems nobody else cares, happy to go along. Don't rock the boat cause it might get worse. The only actual "rights" you have left in this country is the right to believe in a god and the right to speak french. Oh, and you have the right to complain about government, that's something everyone is good at. That is all, everything else has been stripped in the name of fear and public safety - everything is permission based. Think the Charter of rights and freedom allows protection? It doesn't, you don't have inalienable rights in Canada. If anyone breaches your charter rights, there is no tribunal or commission to help you - your only real option is court. Where there is no remedy, there is no right.

I don't bother with concerts or other public venues anymore due to the idea of "implied consent". Everyone wants to search you in the name of public safety, and it's amazing how many people believe they have authority over me. I don't go to bars anymore that scan drivers licenses but yet, people lap it up. If everyone that is concerned about privacy would simply boycott - then much of this will stop. But no, people are scared sheep. Boycott won't work with firearms, if you boycott then gov't and police would likely be very happy to take your firearms wouldn't they.

You can thank your political God Stephen Harper for most of this - but nobody wants to read the news or get into the background of it. You can thank Harper for having Trudeau at the helm of this country now cause he was arrogant enough to believe that he would get another majority when most of the country was sick of him.

I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember. I really want to puke in my mouth whenever I hear anyone say that our forefathers fought for the freedom we have today. We are not free as a nation anymore. 30 million adults in Canada controlled by what, 500 politicians? If my great grandfather (fought and injured in the battle of the Somme) crawled out of the grave tomorrow, he'd likely go on a shooting spree for giving up what we have.

I didn't grow up in a scared society, but I've watched helplessly as it evolved. And it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart to see what happened to a once proud Canada - true North strong and free indeed.

But, if you want to protest any of this, feel free to apply for a permit.

Silverdoctor it is not as gloomy as you think nor is this country as bad as you think.
That said I hope you have a great day.:grouphug:

[silverdoctor]

Harper is retired last I looked.
Cat

I'm thankful for small miracles. His legacy is going to affect this country for a long time.

Silverdoctor it is not as gloomy as you think nor is this country as bad as you think.
That said I hope you have a great day.:grouphug:

Methinks people need to do some reading and research.

[EZM]

Silver,

I was shocked to read what you wrote there bud. I am truly sorry you feel that way, and take some comfort in knowing many of us will not agree with you, and think you are wrong.

It's really not that bad here in Canada. And like what Brendan's Dad said, I also agree with the PAL system, and the laws as they are today. Are they perfect? .... no ..... but they are pretty good.

I do hear what you are saying about endless regulations and restrictions - but that much different than manipulation and control. There may be a need for caution and careful deliberation but there is NO need for Fear or paranoia.

I don't care if the "government" knows what firearms I own, where I might have a beer, or even who I'm talking to ..... it just isn't that interesting ..... lol. As a law abiding citizen, I could care less, they can watch me get up, go to work, spy on me to see what's for lunch, tap my calls and listen to me complain about uninteresting stuff.

I realise that I'm making light of it, but truly I hope it will restore your faith in all of US who ELECT our officials and have a CHOICE of who we support.

Hang in there.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=silverdoctor;3640923]And thanks to Harper, you're soon going to face more restrictions on firearms. Enjoy it cause you won't do anything about it but complain.
QUOTE]

No! It is the younger generation like yourself that seems to be doing most complaining.

But seriously

Try some of that medicinal stuff! It may help take away some of your pain.
Your back pain or that burr up your butt or whatever ails you.:thinking-006:

Whatever you think Canada has become, the good, bad or ugly? There is no place I would rather live than Alberta Canada.

[Newview01]

So, you would want a mechanism where a person can prove he/she is not restricted (as a criminal) from owning a firearm?

Kinda like what a PAL does right?

LOL

How about an instant background check? Like the US?

[Newview01]

personally, I'm getting fed up with everything - so consider it a boycott. I love shooting but it seems nobody else cares, happy to go along. Don't rock the boat cause it might get worse. The only actual "rights" you have left in this country is the right to believe in a god and the right to speak french. Oh, and you have the right to complain about government, that's something everyone is good at. That is all, everything else has been stripped in the name of fear and public safety - everything is permission based. Think the Charter of rights and freedom allows protection? It doesn't, you don't have inalienable rights in Canada. If anyone breaches your charter rights, there is no tribunal or commission to help you - your only real option is court. Where there is no remedy, there is no right.

I don't bother with concerts or other public venues anymore due to the idea of "implied consent". Everyone wants to search you in the name of public safety, and it's amazing how many people believe they have authority over me. I don't go to bars anymore that scan drivers licenses but yet, people lap it up. If everyone that is concerned about privacy would simply boycott - then much of this will stop. But no, people are scared sheep. Boycott won't work with firearms, if you boycott then gov't and police would likely be very happy to take your firearms wouldn't they.

You can thank your political God Stephen Harper for most of this - but nobody wants to read the news or get into the background of it. You can thank Harper for having Trudeau at the helm of this country now cause he was arrogant enough to believe that he would get another majority when most of the country was sick of him.

I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember. I really want to puke in my mouth whenever I hear anyone say that our forefathers fought for the freedom we have today. We are not free as a nation anymore. 30 million adults in Canada controlled by what, 500 politicians? If my great grandfather (fought and injured in the battle of the Somme) crawled out of the grave tomorrow, he'd likely go on a shooting spree for giving up what we have.

I didn't grow up in a scared society, but I've watched helplessly as it evolved. And it's only going to get worse. It breaks my heart to see what happened to a once proud Canada - true North strong and free indeed.

But, if you want to protest any of this, feel free to apply for a permit.

Good speech.

[silverdoctor]

Silver,

I realise that I'm making light of it, but truly I hope it will restore your faith in all of US who ELECT our officials and have a CHOICE of who we support.

Hang in there.

I'm not going to comment on the rest. I haven't voted since I was 18, and have no political association, PC, NDP or Liberal. Every one of them is out for themselves, not you. Been ripped a new arse from many cause I don't get out and vote - "you don't have the right to complain!". What a laugh.

But when the only choice you have in this country is to pick one arsehole or the other to vote for - and then thump your chest over it. Sorry, but that's pretty sad.

[silverdoctor]

[QUOTE=silverdoctor;3640923]And thanks to Harper, you're soon going to face more restrictions on firearms. Enjoy it cause you won't do anything about it but complain.
QUOTE]

No! It is the younger generation like yourself that seems to be doing most complaining.

But seriously

Try some of that medicinal stuff! It may help take away some of your pain.
Your back pain or that burr up your butt or whatever ails you.:thinking-006:

Whatever you think Canada has become, the good, bad or ugly? There is no place I would rather live than Alberta Canada.

The older generation - I assume you from what you posted - have no idea about technology and no concern over it. Barely able to turn on a PC, let alone know the dangers of what you use. I'd urge you to research it, but you won't. I guess when I reach the age of decrepitude, i"ll feel the same way about the younger generation.



And by the way, for those of you who PM'd me, instead of agreeing with me in the shadows of PM, step forward and discuss. Don't be afraid.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;3640979]

The older generation - I assume you from what you posted - have no idea about technology and no concern over it. Barely able to turn on a PC, let alone know the dangers of what you use. I'd urge you to research it, but you won't. I guess when I reach the age of decrepitude, i"ll feel the same way about the younger generation.


Yep! You got me! Described me to a T. I even screwed up the quote thing:)

Since I have seen what research does to someone like yourself, I think I would prefer decrepitude:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[catnthehat]

[QUOTE=silverdoctor;3640923]And thanks to Harper, you're soon going to face more restrictions on firearms. Enjoy it cause you won't do anything about it but complain.
QUOTE]

No! It is the younger generation like yourself that seems to be doing most complaining.

But seriously

Try some of that medicinal stuff! It may help take away some of your pain.
Your back pain or that burr up your butt or whatever ails you.:thinking-006:

Whatever you think Canada has become, the good, bad or ugly? There is no place I would rather live than Alberta Canada.
When I look around at some other countries I am thankful I am a Canadian as well.:)
I worked close to 50 years of my life a tradesman, have seen the good , bad, and ugly from the Liberals and the Conservatives and the NDP.

Bottom line is there is no happy middle ground for some people.
Cat

[silverdoctor]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;3640979]
When I look around at some other countries I am thankful I am a Canadian as well.:)
I worked close to 50 years of my life a tradesman, have seen the good , bad, and ugly from the Liberals and the Conservatives and the NDP.

Bottom line is there is no happy middle ground for some people.
Cat

Which particular countries Cat? Harper started a 15 billion dollar deal with the Saudi's on armed vehicles, Trudeau is pushing to keep it going. Saudi Arabia is a known state sponsor of terrorism. Why are we selling arms like this? We're supposed to be the good guys. Yet we are part of the West in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, helped the color revolution in Ukraine etc.

[catnthehat]

[QUOTE=catnthehat;3641023]

Which particular countries Cat? Harper started a 15 billion dollar deal with the Saudi's on armed vehicles, Trudeau is pushing to keep it going. Saudi Arabia is a known state sponsor of terrorism. Why are we selling arms like this? We're supposed to be the good guys. Yet we are part of the West in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, helped the color revolution in Ukraine etc.

Go rant and troll elsewhere to someone else, there is no perfect country or government- if there was I'm sure you would have moved there.

Cat

[silverdoctor]

[QUOTE=silverdoctor;3641071]

Go rant and troll elsewhere to someone else, there is no perfect country or government- if there was I'm sure you would have moved there.

Cat

Wow. Can't answer a simple question without getting defensive.

[Kristopher10]

[QUOTE=catnthehat;3641023]



Which particular countries Cat? Harper started a 15 billion dollar deal with the Saudi's on armed vehicles, Trudeau is pushing to keep it going. Saudi Arabia is a known state sponsor of terrorism. Why are we selling arms like this? We're supposed to be the good guys. Yet we are part of the West in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, helped the color revolution in Ukraine etc.



Which country would you prefer to reside over Canada?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[silverdoctor]

[QUOTE=silverdoctor;3641071]



Which country would you prefer to reside over Canada?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i'm trying to figure out what went wrong with Canada. We used to be the good guys.

How did we end up being complicit with innocent Canadian citizens being tortured in Syria?

There was a time when sporting a Canadian flag or patch in any country meant you were friendly, not so much anymore. But if people want to feel justified in our own government supporting terrorism - be it direct or indirect, feel free.

What's Canada's role in Syria?

[elkhunter11]

I am glad that I am middle aged, as I don't want to be around after another 50 years of treating criminals like victims, treating citizens like criminals, and throwing money at terrorists, insteat of standing up to terrorism. In 50 years, the citizens will have been taxed into poverty, our rights and freedoms will have been taken away, and Canada will be more like the countries that the refugees are running from, rather than the great country that they used to run to for a better life. The only way to stop this, is for us to elect a government that actually is willing to deal harshly with criminals, that will encourage people to work rather than to discourage them by taxing them to the point where their hard work gains them nothing over those people that don't want to work, and and that will make all Canadians equal under the law.

[Newview01]

I am glad that I am middle aged, as I don't want to be around after another 50 years of treating criminals like victims, treating citizens like criminals, and throwing money at terrorists, insteat of standing up to terrorism. In 50 years, the citizens will have been taxed into poverty, our rights and freedoms will have been taken away, and Canada will be more like the countries that the refugees are running from, rather than the great country that they used to run to for a better life. The only way to stop this, is for us to elect a government that actually is willing to deal harshly with criminals, that will encourage people to work rather than to discourage them by taxing them to the point where their hard work gains them nothing over those people that don't want to work, and and that will make all Canadians equal under the law.

There is more too it than that.

The west has become too civilized in a sense - and the average citizen is unwilling to mete out proper punishment for criminals. We need some hangmen.

[elkhunter11]

There is more too it than that.

The west has become too civilized in a sense - and the average citizen is unwilling to mete out proper punishment for criminals. We need some hangmen.

And many people have become lazy, to where they want t to sit around and collect handouts rather than work. And increasing taxes on the people willing to work, just encourages more people not to work. And giving handouts or privileges to one race or religion or province, just leads to other races, religions or provinces wanting special handouts or privileges of their own. And rewarding terrorists and criminals just encourages more people to participate in terrorism or criminal activities.

[Bisch]

Why doesn't the NFA try to change jeans mind instead of just turning voters against him? Jean has the best chance of being premier. Let's not squander it. We can't lose the best election.



I think many would disagree with you there.

[Bisch]

Which political party was in power during the High River Gun Grab and supported the 'gun grab'?



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/06/high-river-gun-grab-a-massive-breach-of-civil-rights



I think it is better that the truth be spoken now.



That had nothing to do with provincial politics or Provincial Government direction or policy. RCMP acted on their own policy that is formed from the Federal Government. It is bad policy, and wrong. I think that policy has been corrected now.

[Bisch]

Why would my attitude matter? i'm not in government, I'm not after your firearms - and I don't vote. I'm like the enemy to you and that's typical. If you don't own a firearm, then you have no skin in the game and are basically the enemy.



And my attitude is the problem?



The majority of Canada has no problem with firearms ownership. Unfortunately, you're getting beaten by the minority.



You should really take your rights seriously and vote. My option is no vote, no ‘right’ to complain.

[Stinky Buffalo]

I am glad that I am middle aged, as I don't want to be around after another 50 years of treating criminals like victims, treating citizens like criminals, and throwing money at terrorists, insteat of standing up to terrorism. In 50 years, the citizens will have been taxed into poverty, our rights and freedoms will have been taken away, and Canada will be more like the countries that the refugees are running from, rather than the great country that they used to run to for a better life. The only way to stop this, is for us to elect a government that actually is willing to deal harshly with criminals, that will encourage people to work rather than to discourage them by taxing them to the point where their hard work gains them nothing over those people that don't want to work, and and that will make all Canadians equal under the law.

That's so depressing.

And you echo my concerns as well.

I can totally see where Silver is coming from, too - On one hand, I'm so glad I have the ability to cast a vote, but, on top of the lack of good choices we have, it's so disheartening to see the results decided before our western polls close.

Every election I hope things would change for the better - but here's the thing - my version of "better" would not coincide with what a lot of other Canadians would consider "better" - including many of my brothers and sisters on this forum. :scared: But these are things we have to work through as a society.

In the meantime, what I'm trying to do to make this a better place is to instill constructive values in my kids: work ethic, morals, compassion, politeness, grit, etc. Oh, and hunting and fishing. Lots of hunting and fishing. :sHa_shakeshout:

[covey ridge]

You should really take your rights seriously and vote. My option is no vote, no ‘right’ to complain.

He voted once in his 46 years of life and that was as a young adult and he remembers a Canada that was better.

"I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember."

Hasn't voted since then and he blames everyone but himself?

He just has not accepted not getting his way and has checked out except to rant and complain.

Lots of complaint but no real participation.

He simply did not even try.:thinking-006:

That is his right and that is the only thing I agree with!

[Newview01]

He voted once in his 46 years of life and that was as a young adult and he remembers a Canada that was better.

"I'm 46 years old, and this isn't the Canada I remember."

Hasn't voted since then and he blames everyone but himself?

He just has not accepted not getting his way and has checked out except to rant and complain.

Lots of complaint but no real participation.

He simply did not even try.:thinking-006:

That is his right and that is the only thing I agree with!

Do you realize that by not voting due to lack of qualified candidates, you are still making your choice clear?

Democracy should not be about choosing the lesser evil.

[EZM]

There is more too it than that.

The west has become too civilized in a sense - and the average citizen is unwilling to mete out proper punishment for criminals. We need some hangmen.

History has been made - we agree on a point !!!!!!

Despite our progress as a society where we are more accepting, tolerant, inclusive and understanding of different cultures, sexual orientations, religions, whatever (which I think is great) .... we have become, as a by-product, a "soft" on criminals and other groups who need to be dealt with accordingly.

Society has began to make excuses for the "poor criminal" blaming his parenting or upbringing, or perhaps too tolerant with groups that would serve to damage our country and our liberty.

We allow hate groups, radical ideologies, etc.. to "express themselves" yet are too cautious not to offend their rights to free speech instead of firmly denouncing them and showing them the exit door to our country.

I do agree we have become soft.

The negative influences on society (as mentioned above) should be dealt with in a assertive, punitive and effective manner that it serves as not only as a "clean up" of the trash we have but as a "effective deterrent" to those that would follow in those steps ( criminals or radicals ).

We have no room and no time to be soft on this in Canada.

Unfortunately, because (the west) has become "soft" on effectively dealing with these issues - it has, unfortunately, made more people seem intolerant, hard lined, paranoid and perhaps even prejudiced which serves us nothing of value as a country.

We need tolerance and acceptance but we need to be tough and decisive as well.

[covey ridge]

Do you realize that by not voting due to lack of qualified candidates, you are still making your choice clear?

Democracy should not be about choosing the lesser evil.

I do think that not voting is a choice that one can make.

I do not think that making that choice will transmit a clear message of anything and especially the quality of candidates.

The reason many do not vote is apathy. I can not see how not doing anything one can expect anything?

Anyway my bottom line is I have no problem with what Brain Jean said and I wonder the motive for making a big deal of it.

[silverdoctor]

I love discussions like this. people thump their chest cause they did their duty and went out to vote for 1 idiot or the other - then feel they have the right to complain for the next 4 years.

People think we are free in Canada? Define freedom for me, please. What makes you free?

Covey, you and I are old enough to remember real privacy and anonymity. Close the drapes, take the phone off the hook and the world outside the home didn't exist. That doesn't exist anymore. We, the citizens of Canada have made sure of that - and allowed it to happen. You call me apathetic? We're in the era of smart phones and ignorant people, and it's not just the young generations. People are not informed anymore, that's what truly saddens me. Everyone is worried about their own little spot in the world, heck with everyone else - until it affects you directly.

Do you own your home and property? Do you own your vehicle? Do you own the technology that surrounds you and rips your life apart? Think about that. You own your firearms, but need a permit to possess them.

[Okotokian]

Democracy should not be about choosing the lesser evil.

Yet it almost always is. Witness how most voters felt about the last US Presidential election. A whole lot of nose holding going on in the ballot booth on the part of both Dems and Republicans.

[covey ridge]

Covey, you and I are old enough to remember real privacy and anonymity. Close the drapes, take the phone off the hook and the world outside the home didn't exist. That doesn't exist anymore. We, the citizens of Canada have made sure of that - and allowed it to happen. You call me apathetic? We're in the era of smart phones and ignorant people, and it's not just the young generations. People are not informed anymore, that's what truly saddens me. Everyone is worried about their own little spot in the world, heck with everyone else - until it affects you directly.



I never called you apathetic. I said "The reason many do not vote is apathy."

I do remember a time when certain things were more private, but I never really believed in anonymity, We as citizens may have allowed certain things to happen. Some of those things happened because some of us just rolled over. I think the difference between us is that that even though I often thought my choice was the lessor of two evils, I did make the choice of the lessor evil and put up a resistance. If you think you have lost certain rights maybe you should have fought harder for them?

You are the researcher! You have identified what you think is a problem with our society? Has your research given you an idea how to fix the problem other than to declare that we are really not free and there is no point even trying?

[covey ridge]

Do you own the technology that surrounds you and rips your life apart? Think about that. You own your firearms, but need a permit to possess them.

What is the technology that rips your/my life apart? How does it do that? How do you do research? Do you use technology? If you use that technology, why do you trust it?

With respect to this thread, what has your research revealed is a way out of this sorry state you think we are in?

[silverdoctor]

I never called you apathetic. I said "The reason many do not vote is apathy."

I do remember a time when certain things were more private, but I never really believed in anonymity, We as citizens may have allowed certain things to happen. Some of those things happened because some of us just rolled over. I think the difference between us is that that even though I often thought my choice was the lessor of two evils, I did make the choice of the lessor evil and put up a resistance. If you think you have lost certain rights maybe you should have fought harder for them?

You are the researcher! You have identified what you think is a problem with our society? Has your research given you an idea how to fix the problem other than to declare that we are really not free and there is no point even trying?

Anonymity, lets discuss that for a moment.

Let's say i have a hundred grand in cash in my arse pocket - and i want to disappear for a while, you'd be hard pressed to find me. Just another face in the crowd. Get rid of all technology, jump in the car, drive anywhere in Canada, pay cash for everything.

The minute I pull out the debit or credit card, someone somewhere knows precisely where I am, what I bought and when I bought it. Lots of people don't carry cash anymore, they pay with a swipe of their card, they pay with their phone apps cause it's more convenient.

Sell anything in the name of convenience or safety, and people lap it up.

We are headed for a cashless society my friend, and we've been groomed for this since the 90's. What do you think will happen when cash doesn't exist? Cash is the last bit of privacy and anonymity we have - and cashless will be checkmate.

Sound a little tin foil hat? If you don't believe it, read up on it. There are many countries pushing it hard, Australia, Sweden etc. Canada is almost there.

[silverdoctor]

What is the technology that rips your/my life apart? How does it do that? How do you do research? Do you use technology? If you use that technology, why do you trust it?

With respect to this thread, what has your research revealed is a way out of this sorry state you think we are in?

I guess you don't know what an end user license agreement is do you, let alone read one.

Internet of things my friend, look it up.

I use technology yes, but i know how to control it. I don't have smart anything in my home and I won't. My android phone is the big concern, and I'm able to control alot of that.

Smart grid has interconnected all homes that have the new meters. Wait until all cars are interconnected and part of the IOT. IPV6 networking. The list goes on and on.

You're calling me tinfoil because you don't understand it.

[elkhunter11]

Do you realize that by not voting due to lack of qualified candidates, you are still making your choice clear?

Democracy should not be about choosing the lesser evil.

But unfortunately, these days it often comes down to choosing the lesser evil. We have seen first hand how bad a protest vote can be for us.

[covey ridge]

I guess you don't know what an end user license agreement is do you, let alone read one.

Internet of things my friend, look it up.

I use technology yes, but i know how to control it. I don't have smart anything in my home and I won't. My android phone is the big concern, and I'm able to control alot of that.

Smart grid has interconnected all homes that have the new meters. Wait until all cars are interconnected and part of the IOT. IPV6 networking. The list goes on and on.

You're calling me tinfoil because you don't understand it.

I ask again? What is ripping my life apart? and how? Give me one example of what I should be concerned about.

[EZM]

Anonymity, lets discuss that for a moment.

Let's say i have a hundred grand in cash in my arse pocket - and i want to disappear for a while, you'd be hard pressed to find me. Just another face in the crowd. Get rid of all technology, jump in the car, drive anywhere in Canada, pay cash for everything.

The minute I pull out the debit or credit card, someone somewhere knows precisely where I am, what I bought and when I bought it. Lots of people don't carry cash anymore, they pay with a swipe of their card, they pay with their phone apps cause it's more convenient.

Sell anything in the name of convenience or safety, and people lap it up.

We are headed for a cashless society my friend, and we've been groomed for this since the 90's. What do you think will happen when cash doesn't exist? Cash is the last bit of privacy and anonymity we have - and cashless will be checkmate.

Sound a little tin foil hat? If you don't believe it, read up on it. There are many countries pushing it hard, Australia, Sweden etc. Canada is almost there.

You are correct, any transaction you make with your credit/debit card does, in fact, put you at a location, at a time and can describe what you have purchased.

This morning I stopped at Starbucks to get a coffee at 6:03am, drove a block or two westbound and filled up the truck with gas approximately 5 minutes later. I went to work. The security cameras and my security FOB will record when I leave or exit my place of work. I will likely use my debit card to grab some lunch here in a couple hours and maybe stop at the grocery store, dry cleaners before I get home. The government knows, and will know all of this information if they care to.

What I'm saying is, unless you are up to some illegal or nefarious activity - your life is the same as mine ....... routine ..... uninteresting ...... and I'd wager nobody in the government gives a rats behind.

As a matter of fact, I have my cell phone with me, and if they wanted to, they can probably track my precise location at anytime and find me. Like right now ... I'm at my desk and on the forum, when I should be working or doing something else .....

The bottom line is, yes, technology is intrusive - but that doesn't make it's intent (or anyone's intent) nefarious or controlling.

I sincerely hope you don't feel so "watched" and "controlled" that you begin to drive yourself crazy. It's where we are as a society. It is what it is.

[covey ridge]

Anonymity, lets discuss that for a moment.

Let's say i have a hundred grand in cash in my arse pocket - and i want to disappear for a while, you'd be hard pressed to find me. Just another face in the crowd. Get rid of all technology, jump in the car, drive anywhere in Canada, pay cash for everything.

The minute I pull out the debit or credit card, someone somewhere knows precisely where I am, what I bought and when I bought it. Lots of people don't carry cash anymore, they pay with a swipe of their card, they pay with their phone apps cause it's more convenient.

Sell anything in the name of convenience or safety, and people lap it up.

We are headed for a cashless society my friend, and we've been groomed for this since the 90's. What do you think will happen when cash doesn't exist? Cash is the last bit of privacy and anonymity we have - and cashless will be checkmate.

Sound a little tin foil hat? If you don't believe it, read up on it. There are many countries pushing it hard, Australia, Sweden etc. Canada is almost there.

Yep! You use your card and they got you! Book on a forum like this and they got you!

You come across as thinking you have some type of mystical knowledge that only you know how to control.

I could search all the crap that you say but then they would know I did the search and why would I want them to know anything:thinking-006:

[silverdoctor]

I ask again? What is ripping my life apart? and how? Give me one example of what I should be concerned about.

Let's look at one minute fraction of IOT Covey. This may not apply to you.

Internet cameras, cheap and easy to install. Go to your local computer store and they can be had for cheap. Do you realize how many people don't know to change the "default" password on these IOT devices? These cameras leak to the internet, and if you know how to search, easily found. Ever hear of baby monitors being "hacked"? They aren't being hacked, they are made very easy to access.

Go to http://www.insecam.org and you can watch thousands and thousands of live personal private cameras that people have installed inside and outside of their homes, and these folks have no clue. Insecam has filtered out most of the ones that are in peoples bedrooms and such.

But how does it affect you? Do you do online banking at all? Do you have to log in - or did you save your password so it automatically logs in? These passwords are easily exposed.

Do you even know if you have a virus on your computer? or do you trust antivirus 100%? Do you have any understanding of how hackers can gain access to your bank accounts through viruses or simple man in the middle attacks? Likely not. These are minute examples my friend.

There's a reason identity theft is so easy. Compromised credit and bank cards, many on this forum have been affected by it and have no clue how it happened.

But, now we're really off track. Start a new thread if you wish to discuss further - I have to go to work.

[huntsfurfish]

I'm not going to comment on the rest. I haven't voted since I was 18, and have no political association, PC, NDP or Liberal. Every one of them is out for themselves, not you. Been ripped a new arse from many cause I don't get out and vote - "you don't have the right to complain!". What a laugh.

But when the only choice you have in this country is to pick one arsehole or the other to vote for - and then thump your chest over it. Sorry, but that's pretty sad.

Feel free to pick another country then!:) Nothing like sitting back and complaining about this one, which I see its quite common in most if not all your posts.

[huntsfurfish]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;3640979]
When I look around at some other countries I am thankful I am a Canadian as well.:)
I worked close to 50 years of my life a tradesman, have seen the good , bad, and ugly from the Liberals and the Conservatives and the NDP.

Bottom line is there is no happy middle ground for some people.
Cat

Well said and agree!

[covey ridge]

Let's look at one minute fraction of IOT Covey. This may not apply to you.

Internet cameras, cheap and easy to install. Go to your local computer store and they can be had for cheap. Do you realize how many people don't know to change the "default" password on these IOT devices? These cameras leak to the internet, and if you know how to search, easily found. Ever hear of baby monitors being "hacked"? They aren't being hacked, they are made very easy to access.

Go to http://www.insecam.org and you can watch thousands and thousands of live personal private cameras that people have installed inside and outside of their homes, and these folks have no clue. Insecam has filtered out most of the ones that are in peoples bedrooms and such.

But how does it affect you? Do you do online banking at all? Do you have to log in - or did you save your password so it automatically logs in? These passwords are easily exposed.

Do you even know if you have a virus on your computer? or do you trust antivirus 100%? Do you have any understanding of how hackers can gain access to your bank accounts through viruses or simple man in the middle attacks? Likely not. These are minute examples my friend.

There's a reason identity theft is so easy. Compromised credit and bank cards, many on this forum have been affected by it and have no clue how it happened.

But, now we're really off track. Start a new thread if you wish to discuss further - I have to go to work.

No need to start another thread. None of this applies to me;)

[Throttle_monkey1]

So you feel if a career criminal gets pulled over and police find a loaded Glock in his car that it should not be a crime? I sure do.

A career criminal should be prohibited from possessing firearms, just like convicted felons are in the US. Section 91 of the criminal code is unnecessary.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Do you remember the name of the political party that denied sportsmen the ethical management of wildlife ?* Ethical sportsmen were replaced with Sickos and wildlife were 'maimed-to-death' from a helicopter.* I don't know about now, but this political party had 10's of thousands of followers who believed that hunters were an essential part of wildlife management and this would protect their ownership of guns. * **

[EZM]

Do you remember the name of the political party that denied sportsmen the ethical management of wildlife ?* Ethical sportsmen were replaced with Sickos and wildlife were 'maimed-to-death' from a helicopter.* I don't know about now, but this political party had 10's of thousands of followers who believed that hunters were an essential part of wildlife management and this would protect their ownership of guns. * **

Dude - I have had to read your post three times and I'm still getting lost here ....... and I don't even do drugs.

Is this Purgatory.sv's cousin by chance? I hear he did allot of really hard drugs.

:)