Why I think we should have the death penalty

[CMichaud]

Disturbing...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-jail-murder-video-1.4350212

Newly released surveillance video taken at the Elgin Middlesex Detention Centre in London, Ont., shows Anthony George beating his cellmate Adam Kargus to death and then dragging the body into a common shower area the next morning, without jail guards ever seeming to notice.

George, 32, was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 10 years on Oct. 7 for the 2013 death of Kargus, 29, who was choked, punched, kicked and stomped to death. The presiding judge said that "to suggest the murder was brutal would be an understatement."

[Norwest Alta]

Death penalty for this would mean 2 for 1. Perfect.

[EZM]

I would be in favour of the death penalty for crimes like 1st degree murder and the murder/sexual abuse of children.

Rapist should be, at the very least, jailed for life without parole. And I'm not talking about the prisons that are like club med with cable TV, 3 square meals a day and an activity centre.

It really bothers me to know that many of these convicts are released into society only to re-offend and ruin someone else's life or take another person's life.

I'd agree that capital punishment serves the purpose to protect society.

[Trochu]

Kinda eliminates the "what if they are innocent" card when its caught on camera and there were only two guys locked in the cell.

[mindoutside]

I would be in favour of the death penalty for crimes like 1st degree murder and the murder/sexual abuse of children.

Rapist should be, at the very least, jailed for life without parole. And I'm not talking about the prisons that are like club med with cable TV, 3 square meals a day and an activity centre.

It really bothers me to know that many of these convicts are released into society only to re-offend and ruin someone else's life or take another person's life.

I'd agree that capital punishment serves the purpose to protect society.


I would not be opposed to looking into it for those reasons.

[CaberTosser]

Most recently there's this (though sadly I could think of many more....) : https://globalnews.ca/news/3791543/witnesses-help-mother-and-child-stabbed-in-random-calgary-attack-the-boy-was-covered-in-blood/

[purgatory.sv]

Disturbing...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-jail-murder-video-1.4350212

Newly released surveillance video taken at the Elgin Middlesex Detention Centre in London, Ont., shows Anthony George beating his cellmate Adam Kargus to death and then dragging the body into a common shower area the next morning, without jail guards ever seeming to notice.

George, 32, was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 10 years on Oct. 7 for the 2013 death of Kargus, 29, who was choked, punched, kicked and stomped to death. The presiding judge said that "to suggest the murder was brutal would be an understatement."




Only responding to your title nothing more.

Death is an option i support.


:confused:

[Red Bullets]

And here in Alberta I think Ft. Saskatchewan jail still has the room with the original gallows so we wouldn't even need to build a facility to string them up.

[Ken07AOVette]

the guy on the bus should already be compost

[58thecat]

the guy on the bus should already be compost

Yup, along with all the other scum that are sitting in cells or walking our streets after doing hideous crimes...

[7mmremmag]

Not trying to derail but does anyone think concealed carry would help prevent incidents like this?
He potentially brought a knife to a gun fight!?

[Marty S]

I think you are totally trying to derail actually.

[Marty S]

Capital punishment is even Biblical.

When there is zero doubt a murder is murder and the accused is guilty, it needs to be done. No more of this get out of jail in 7 years or 10 years or any years.

If we have to jail murderers, think Chinese prison! Honestly! I mean it!

In fact, I think we need Chinese prison for all jail purposes in this country.

There should be a deterrent in place in this land so people don't murder, rape, rob, etc.

Chinese Prisons... Chinese Prisons...
Chinese Prisons!!!

Ya... and capital punishment!

[7mmremmag]

I think you are totally trying to derail actually.

Not at all. Infact ive never even commented on the concealed carry thread.

[Rastus]

Rapist should be, at the very least, jailed for life without parole. And I'm not talking about the prisons that are like club med with cable TV, 3 square meals a day and an activity centre.


I am 100 percent behind you, but I draw the line at rape. Can you picture the women of this world, if they had that power, as to who was a rapist or not. If it is "PROVEN" then carry on, but otherwise, "NO"

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE]Capital punishment is even Biblical.

Yes it is, and that is good reason why the Bible should not be the final word in determining what happens to a human life.

[normstad]

Yes it is, and that is good reason why the Bible should not be the final word in determining what happens to a human life.

Nailed it. Just like the Koran shouldn't be used.

I'm on the fence on capital punishment. For a Clifford Olson? You bet. Undoubted and guilty as hell.

But I am concerned that there is the reality of innocent being found guilty. And I'm not sure how we determine that in many cases. That being said, I think a life sentence should mean life, unless new evidence exonerates the person.

[Okotokian]

Why are we paying guards? They are clearly playing video games, or playing with themselves; not doing their jobs. A bunch of them should be up on charges too. Losing their jobs should be only the start.

[Headdamage]

In principal I like the death penalty in some cases but I don't trust the government to get most things right in the first place, I sure as hell don't trust them with the power to hand out the death penalty.

[thumper]

The last part of the article is actually the most revealing. Even with CCTV evidence we end up with dismissed charges, settling for reduced charges and reinstating guards. With unions and our justice system defending everyone's 'rights', we devolve into a never ending finger pointing. It'll end up being the institutions fault, and tax payers will pay for lost guard wages, and hurt feelings all-round.


"The next morning, George can be seen on the video leaving his cell, enlisting the help of other inmates to clean up the blood, wrap Kargus's body in a bedsheet and drag it to the jail's shower area.

Two other inmates were charged in the case, but the charges were eventually dropped against one of the suspects, while the other pleaded guilty to a lesser charge.

Guards finally discover Kargus's body at around 10 a.m. on Nov.1 and called paramedics, but by then Kargus was already dead.

A post-mortem ruled Kargus's cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head, neck and face. His face was so badly beaten, the court heard, that Kargus had to be identified by his tattoos.

Six staff were fired after Kargus's death for failing to do their jobs.

However, three of the guards got their jobs back in April 2017 after an Ontario grievance settlement board found that the actions of the guards had "gone on for years, if not decades, and they were open and obvious."

Since Kargus's death the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre has been embroiled in lawsuits over allegations that inmates' rights are routinely violated."

[Okotokian]

edit

[3blade]

No. No way in hell does our incompetent, slimy, inbred bunch of Ottawa based eastern elites get to decide life and death. Not a chance

Castle law? Sure. CCW? Ok, with training. Putting life and death in the hands of a group that thinks 60-70% tax is ok, and a Supreme Court that thinks ones race should decide punishment - see the R vs Gladue decision - absolutely not.

[wildbill]

Disturbing...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-jail-murder-video-1.4350212

Newly released surveillance video taken at the Elgin Middlesex Detention Centre in London, Ont., shows Anthony George beating his cellmate Adam Kargus to death and then dragging the body into a common shower area the next morning, without jail guards ever seeming to notice.

George, 32, was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 10 years on Oct. 7 for the 2013 death of Kargus, 29, who was choked, punched, kicked and stomped to death. The presiding judge said that "to suggest the murder was brutal would be an understatement."

Whack 'em'n stack'em learn 'em 'n BURN 'EM!!!!

[sns2]

I would be in favour of the death penalty for crimes like 1st degree murder and the murder/sexual abuse of children.

Rapist should be, at the very least, jailed for life without parole. And I'm not talking about the prisons that are like club med with cable TV, 3 square meals a day and an activity centre.

It really bothers me to know that many of these convicts are released into society only to re-offend and ruin someone else's life or take another person's life.

I'd agree that capital punishment serves the purpose to protect society.

I agree 100%, however, I would add that the executions should take place immediately after the verdict if there is a confession, conclusive video, or DNA evidence. Capital punishment loses its effectiveness when there are decades between the crime, the endless appeals, and the punishment.

[thumper]

And if they have any problem finding someone to 'throw the switch on the chair' - replace it with a rheostat and offer the job to the victims family.

[Okotokian]

Capital punishment loses its effectiveness when there are decades between the crime, the endless appeals, and the punishment.

What do you mean by "effectiveness"? The guy is off the street, and is eventually executed. Do you think deterrence goes up if executions are immediate? So someone contemplating murder thinks " Well, I'll be on death row, but it will take years for me to actually be executed, so I'm gonna do it!"? LOL Come on.

[sns2]

What do you mean by "effectiveness"? The guy is off the street, and is eventually executed. Do you think deterrence goes up if executions are immediate? So someone contemplating murder thinks " Well, I'll be on death row, but it will take years for me to actually be executed, so I'm gonna do it!"? LOL Come on.
That is one of the main criticisms of the US system of capital punishment, in that it does not act as an effective deterrent when it is out of sight out of mind because of endless appeals over decades. Delayed punishment is not effective for humans or animals.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[Okotokian]

That is one of the main criticisms of the US system of capital punishment, in that it does not act as an effective deterrent when it is out of sight out of mind because of endless appeals over decades. Delayed punishment is not effective for humans or animals.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


I don't think anyone rationalizes murder because it will be a while (in a cell) before they are executed. Getting the belt from Dad when he got home was just as much a deterrent to me as getting it from Mom on the spot. ;)

And consider this with regard to deterrence. Is there anyone you would consider killing if it was guaranteed you would only get 5 years in prison? Nobody on my list, and I suspect you are the same. There's no risk/reward assessment in the mind of most criminals. Nobody is thinking "Life imprisonment is harsh, but if they lower it to 15 years I'm going on a killing spree".

Quite frankly, I don't think murderers (or most criminals for that matter) think about the consequences. They don't think that they will even be caught. If the deterrent worked, Texas (with the highest execution rate) would have the lowest murder rate in at least North America. I might be persuaded that there are other reasons for the death penalty, but deterrence isn't one of them.

[EZM]

I am 100 percent behind you, but I draw the line at rape. Can you picture the women of this world, if they had that power, as to who was a rapist or not. If it is "PROVEN" then carry on, but otherwise, "NO"

I don't think anyone would condone the punishment, whether it's jail time or capital punishment, based on an accusation. I think a conviction is required in any case.

In the case of rape, if there is a conviction, it's my position that significantly stiffer sentences are required. The rate of re-offence on impulsive violent controlling crimes like rape (because it isn't often about sex) is amongst the highest of any violent crimes.

The rape and abuse of children, for me, is an automatic life sentence. Sorry these people should never be freed back into society to protect another child.

I do acknowledge the thoughts of some contributors who may distrust our legal system of "getting it wrong" but that knife cuts both ways - it could convict an innocent man as easily as it could free the guilty man. I really think that's a separate issue altogether.

[covey ridge]

I might be persuaded that there are other reasons for the death penalty, but deterrence isn't one of them.

The only thing I see as positive about the death penalty is no repeat offenders.

[bat119]

In our current snowflake world I really can't see the death penalty coming back. I would like to see long term offenders sent to lower cost facility's in Siberia, Mexico or South America.

[pikergolf]

The only thing I see as positive about the death penalty is no repeat offenders.

Cheaper as well.

[fishtank]

can always outsource it to country's like china or russia or even mexico, they have a great prison system for criminals . Probably fractions of the cost, might get a rebate for package deal :)

[Redfrog]

I don't think anyone rationalizes murder because it will be a while (in a cell) before they are executed. Getting the belt from Dad when he got home was just as much a deterrent to me as getting it from Mom on the spot. ;)

And consider this with regard to deterrence. Is there anyone you would consider killing if it was guaranteed you would only get 5 years in prison? Nobody on my list, and I suspect you are the same. There's no risk/reward assessment in the mind of most criminals. Nobody is thinking "Life imprisonment is harsh, but if they lower it to 15 years I'm going on a killing spree".

Quite frankly, I don't think murderers (or most criminals for that matter) think about the consequences. They don't think that they will even be caught. If the deterrent worked, Texas (with the highest execution rate) would have the lowest murder rate in at least North America. I might be persuaded that there are other reasons for the death penalty, but deterrence isn't one of them.

I think we need to consider the different types of murder. in the heat of the moment is different from calculated murder for love or money and different still from predatory types who prey on kids etc.

[dukla]

Here's why I think we should have the death penalty, and why plenty of people I know who camp are well prepared...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Gray_Provincial_Park_Family_Murders

[silverdoctor]

Some of the guards should be in jail as well for negligence.

Kargus was serving time for ID theft, 165 days. George was well known for kicking the crap out of cell mates, with a long history of violence. Looks like he was moved to the new jail for just that - was put in seg then released to the general pop. That kids fate was sealed from the time he entered the doors.

Inmates are running this prison.

[EZM]

The only thing I see as positive about the death penalty is no repeat offenders.

Agreed. Too many of these criminals committing violent rapes, murders, etc... just keep on victimising more and more people. Repeat offenders of these types of heinous crimes is all too common.

In cases like these, I would have no hesitation whatsoever in applying capital punishment.

[sns2]

I don't think anyone rationalizes murder because it will be a while (in a cell) before they are executed. Getting the belt from Dad when he got home was just as much a deterrent to me as getting it from Mom on the spot. ;)

And consider this with regard to deterrence. Is there anyone you would consider killing if it was guaranteed you would only get 5 years in prison? Nobody on my list, and I suspect you are the same. There's no risk/reward assessment in the mind of most criminals. Nobody is thinking "Life imprisonment is harsh, but if they lower it to 15 years I'm going on a killing spree".

Quite frankly, I don't think murderers (or most criminals for that matter) think about the consequences. They don't think that they will even be caught. If the deterrent worked, Texas (with the highest execution rate) would have the lowest murder rate in at least North America. I might be persuaded that there are other reasons for the death penalty, but deterrence isn't one of them.

If murderers, rapists, and pedophiles were brought to trial in an expedient manner, and were executed upon conviction, in the states that have capital punishment, many criminologists who support capital punishment, believe there would be a substantial reduction in the murder rate because people would think twice before carrying out wanton murder. Part of me agrees. The deterrent effect has nothing to do with the person found guilty. That act has happened. It is the effect on the public in knowing that the murderer stands a good chance of frying. Whether this is true or not is unknown because it is not the way it is practiced in the US, and it ain't changing anytime soon.

I waver in my opinion on the whole issue. Some years I am for it and some years I am against it. I do now that the callous disregard for human life is increasing in western society. I have taught in the young offenders centre where inmates joke about their victims. It is disgusting, and I would no longer teach there again. The pendulum has swung so far that it is off the fulcrum. Not good.

Oki, when I am joking I typically put a smilie on the end.

[sjemac]

The government(s) can't even pave your roads properly. Give them the power to kill their own citizens? No.

[260 Rem]

I don’t believe capital punishment is a deterrent, but it would certainly be “justice”.

[normstad]

If murderers, rapists, and pedophiles were brought to trial in an expedient manner, and were executed upon conviction, in the states that have capital punishment, many criminologists who support capital punishment, believe there would be a substantial reduction in the murder rate because people would think twice before carrying out wanton murder. Part of me agrees. The deterrent effect has nothing to do with the person found guilty. That act has happened. It is the effect on the public in knowing that the murderer stands a good chance of frying. Whether this is true or not is unknown because it is not the way it is practiced in the US, and it ain't changing anytime soon.

I waver in my opinion on the whole issue. Some years I am for it and some years I am against it. I do now that the callous disregard for human life is increasing in western society. I have taught in the young offenders centre where inmates joke about their victims. It is disgusting, and I would no longer teach there again. The pendulum has swung so far that it is off the fulcrum. Not good.

Oki, when I am joking I typically put a smilie on the end.


There is no facts that support the gut feeling that the death sentence results in lower murder rates. None.

[sns2]

[QUOTE=normstad;3643280]There is no facts that support the gut feeling that the death sentence results in lower murder rates. None.[/QUOTE

I'm pretty sure I addressed that...

"If murderers, rapists, and pedophiles were brought to trial in an expedient manner, and were executed upon conviction, in the states that have capital punishment, many criminologists who support capital punishment, believe there would be a substantial reduction in the murder rate because people would think twice before carrying out wanton murder. Part of me agrees. The deterrent effect has nothing to do with the person found guilty. That act has happened. It is the effect on the public in knowing that the murderer stands a good chance of frying. Whether this is true or not is unknown because it is not the way it is practiced in the US, and it ain't changing anytime soon."

Back in the 80's I took a Philosophy & Ethics course that dealt with only two issues: capital punishment and abortion. It was a very interesting course. As to whether it would work? Who knows. The older I get the more questions I have.

[Heyupduck]

I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.

Think about it, all our justice system is based on telling the truth, and the exposure of truth. Hundreds of years ago people were in fear of "God" or another diety. People REALLY feared spending an eternity in hell, so people would have thought long and hard before lying under oath.

Religion does not have the same power now - and there is no real threat to lying in court.

A murderer can say "I didn't think about it, it happened in the moment" and get off with Manslaughter. Would a murderer say the same thing if they thought there might be evidence out there that could prove it was pre-planned? And that they would be executed if they were found guilty of committing perjury?

Think about all the court delays that are caused by people lying under oath - pleading innocent when they know they are guilty.

Think of all the victims who are denied justice because the perpetrators got off..

So yeah, bring back death penalty, but only for perjury. Of course the lawyers would be against it, so there is no chance of it succeeding. Rant over.

[Redfrog]

I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.

Think about it, all our justice system is based on telling the truth, and the exposure of truth. Hundreds of years ago people were in fear of "God" or another diety. People REALLY feared spending an eternity in hell, so people would have thought long and hard before lying under oath.

Religion does not have the same power now - and there is no real threat to lying in court.

A murderer can say "I didn't think about it, it happened in the moment" and get off with Manslaughter. Would a murderer say the same thing if they thought there might be evidence out there that could prove it was pre-planned? And that they would be executed if they were found guilty of committing perjury?

Think about all the court delays that are caused by people lying under oath - pleading innocent when they know they are guilty.

Think of all the victims who are denied justice because the perpetrators got off..

So yeah, bring back death penalty, but only for perjury. Of course the lawyers would be against it, so there is no chance of it succeeding. Rant over.

I think this idea has merit. It's a very rough draft and needs tweaking but I think the principle is a good one. I also think it should be applied to anyone charged with any crime as well as politicians, lawyers etc. Now before any of these groups I mentioned takes offense I didn't list every group I think should be included because I type two fingers. but you get the idea. Tell a malicious lie.... pay the piper.

[normstad]

is no facts that support the gut feeling that the death sentence results in lower murder rates. None.

I'm pretty sure I addressed that...

"If murderers, rapists, and pedophiles were brought to trial in an expedient manner, and were executed upon conviction, in the states that have capital punishment, many criminologists who support capital punishment, believe there would be a substantial reduction in the murder rate because people would think twice before carrying out wanton murder. Part of me agrees. The deterrent effect has nothing to do with the person found guilty. That act has happened. It is the effect on the public in knowing that the murderer stands a good chance of frying. Whether this is true or not is unknown because it is not the way it is practiced in the US, and it ain't changing anytime soon."

Back in the 80's I took a Philosophy & Ethics course that dealt with only two issues: capital punishment and abortion. It was a very interesting course. As to whether it would work? Who knows. The older I get the more questions I have.

Yup, I used to be pretty hardcore "hang 'em high". I've changed on that.

[sns2]

Yup, I used to be pretty hardcore "hang 'em high". I've changed on that.

I hear ya

[silverdoctor]

How many innocent people have been executed over the years? How many innocent people are sitting on death row?

That's the only thing that stops me from promoting capital punishment - is the idea that the person may be innocent. If people are so gung ho over capital punishment, then you should be very willing to kill the person yourself - a person that you don't know. There are reasons firing squads is plural - nobody knows who made the kill shot.

If you get caught red-handed however.

[sns2]

How many innocent people have been executed over the years? How many innocent people are sitting on death row?

That's the only thing that stops me from promoting capital punishment - is the idea that the person may be innocent. If people are so gung ho over capital punishment, then you should be very willing to kill the person yourself - a person that you don't know. There are reasons firing squads is plural - nobody knows who made the kill shot.

If you get caught red-handed however.

Confession or DNA evidence. I said video footage, but that can be doctored.

[silverdoctor]

Confession or DNA evidence. I said video footage, but that can be doctored.

In the case posted by the OP, yeah, bullet to the brain, put him out of our misery. There's no excuse, one cannot look at that video and claim he didn't know what he was doing.

[sns2]

In the case posted by the OP, yeah, bullet to the brain, put him out of our misery. There's no excuse, one cannot look at that video and claim he didn't know what he was doing.

With the video doctoring comment I am speaking broadly, not in reference to the OP's video.

[CaberTosser]

can always outsource it to country's like china or russia or even mexico, they have a great prison system for criminals . Probably fractions of the cost, might get a rebate for package deal :)

I understand that Chinese prisons make money by parting out the prisoners for surplus or 'unneeded' organs. Some inmates have surprise executions scheduled when genetic matches with deep pockets make inquiries into the wrecking-yard parts network software that has been repurposed. :thinking-006:

[Supergrit]

David Millgard could have been killed for a crime didn't commit. Alberta last death sentence was questionable if guilty for many crimes yes death penalty but how can be sure 100 percent of time?

[elkhunter11]

I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.

Think about it, all our justice system is based on telling the truth, and the exposure of truth. Hundreds of years ago people were in fear of "God" or another diety. People REALLY feared spending an eternity in hell, so people would have thought long and hard before lying under oath.

Religion does not have the same power now - and there is no real threat to lying in court.

A murderer can say "I didn't think about it, it happened in the moment" and get off with Manslaughter. Would a murderer say the same thing if they thought there might be evidence out there that could prove it was pre-planned? And that they would be executed if they were found guilty of committing perjury?

Think about all the court delays that are caused by people lying under oath - pleading innocent when they know they are guilty.

Think of all the victims who are denied justice because the perpetrators got off..

So yeah, bring back death penalty, but only for perjury. Of course the lawyers would be against it, so there is no chance of it succeeding. Rant over.
This should apply to the police and prosecutors as well. If they with hold evidence, or lie or coerse other people to with hold evidence or give false testimony, they should be sentenced with what the accused is facing. The Donald Marshall case is an example of where they coersed someone to give false testimoney to gain a conviction.

[58thecat]

[QUOTE=Marty S;3642763]

Yes it is, and that is good reason why the Bible should not be the final word in determining what happens to a human life.

Human life:snapoutofit:once you go rogue you are nothing but a rogue animal and need to be dealt with immediate. No cells, no food, no rights, just death.

[58thecat]

David Millgard could have been killed for a crime didn't commit. Alberta last death sentence was questionable if guilty for many crimes yes death penalty but how can be sure 100 percent of time?

It'll minimize the amount of potential crimes period, think about it, you want to steal a car but just last week your hoodlum buddy was swinging off a rope...hits home real quick...if not there is more rope etc.

[bobinthesky]

There will never be capital punishment in this country for the simple reason that the laws are written by politicians and a lot of politicians are lawyers, these lawyers are also businessmen and any good business man knows that it is bad business to kill your customers!

[58thecat]

There will never be capital punishment in this country for the simple reason that the laws are written by politicians and a lot of politicians are lawyers, these lawyers are also businessmen and any good business man knows that it is bad business to kill your customers!

True until one of these rogue animals breaks into thier home and rape/kills thier family...then you will see a person sing a different tune.
Politicians/lawyers....hmmmm....:rolleye2:

[Rastus]

True until knew of these rogue animals breaks into thier home and rape/kills thier family...then you will see a person sing a different tune.
Politicians/lawyers....hmmmm....:rolleye2:

Yea, but they have guards and everything, based on "YOUR" ability to pay.

[CaberTosser]

The government(s) can't even pave your roads properly. Give them the power to kill their own citizens? No.

By releasing killers out among us to re-offend don't you think they already have that power? Heck, bad economic policy winds up increasing the rate of suicide, so don't go thinking that the government does not already have a hand in many deaths, to me it's about keeping things fair and just. Society is far better off by undertaking the permanent removal of violent sociopaths.

There is no facts that support the gut feeling that the death sentence results in lower murder rates. None.

Have you got an example of where an executed prisoner committed another homicide? Taking a killer out of circulation most certainly brings down the homicide rate, including the prison homicide rate. Your argument is circular, one cannot prove why a statistic didn't change when there are hundreds of other factors contributing to that statistic that may contribute to the statistics rise or fall.. "My fuel economy changed" says the person who blames it solely on the quality of fuel without checking their tire pressure, wheel bearings, alignment or additional cargo weight as their 3 kids went from 35lbs to 180lbs each and the trunk accumulates 12 years worth of junk.

It's next to impossible to prove why something as random as murder didn't happen, at least when it's not to do with something like physical engineering. Every day you'd have to prove why a mass killing didn't happen at the mall or at a school or a stadium. How does one prove that?

I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.

So yeah, bring back death penalty, but only for perjury. Of course the lawyers would be against it, so there is no chance of it succeeding. Rant over.

I'll agree with the poster who noted that one would have to include the police, the lawyers and witnesses in such an arrangement. Interesting to consider but purely a philosophical exercise.


How many innocent people have been executed over the years? How many innocent people are sitting on death row?

If you get caught red-handed however.

I'd wager that there are fewer people sitting wrongly convicted than there are killers, pedophiles and violent rapists who had short term sentences and were released only to re-offend. Math for the win!

Vince Li was caught as red-handed as it gets, he literally had blood on his hands and an entire busload of witnesses. He walks among us today.

I'd take a wide volume of justice all day long over the unlikely event of a bad conviction. We have far better means of retaining and documenting all manner of evidence that was not even available when most (if not ALL) of the more famous wrongful convictions took place. These people are well known because they served a lot of time, in that significant amount of time a lot of police sciences and the science of DNA analysis have advanced significantly. And nearly everyone now has a camera and a cell phone tracking them by GPS, witnesses and bad guys alike. Sure, for the pre-meditated crime a shrewd criminal will leave the GPS tracker at home, but that does not happen with the crimes of passion/ opportunity.

[purgatory.sv]

Capital punishment could be an answer?

I was at the lrt recently and two young people were discussing the parole they had just received,both seem to be expressing it was to long. No remorse about what they may have done just unhappy with the length of probation.

[normstad]

It'll minimize the amount of potential crimes period, think about it, you want to steal a car but just last week your hoodlum buddy was swinging off a rope...hits home real quick...if not there is more rope etc.

So no empathy for those who are innocent, but convicted. A little bit of collateral damage is acceptable then?

[bessiedog]

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/canada/2016/06/08/a-list-of-canadians-wrongly-convicted.html


We'd have killed a few innocent people.

We always make mistakes... we're human. The justice system tries to be as fair as possible.

I don't know if one can find a slam dunk evil.

[Gray Wolf]

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/canada/2016/06/08/a-list-of-canadians-wrongly-convicted.html


We'd have killed a few innocent people.

We always make mistakes... we're human. The justice system tries to be as fair as possible.

I don't know if one can find a slam dunk evil.

The list of wrongly convicted Canadians in that article linked above, is just the tip of the iceberg! And God only knows how many innocents were executed, back in the days when we still had the death penalty.

We have no more a perfect justice system, than we have a perfect government. Mistakes are made, and it's a constant and a given.
.

[covey ridge]

I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.


[QUOTE]Think about all the court delays that are caused by people lying under oath - pleading innocent when they know they are guilty.

Pleading not guilty is simply the right to a trial. Pleading not guilty is not perjury. When a judge asks an accused for a plea, accused is not under oath.
Any person charged with an offense has the right to a trial.

[covey ridge]

I used to be very pro death penalty for certain crimes, but now I have changed my mind and am opposed to the death penalty.

[Ken07AOVette]

One may argue that if someone breaks into your house to steal beer and you kill him, you instantly face the death penalty.
That would change some minds rapidly.

[Heyupduck]

[QUOTE=Heyupduck;3643287]I think there should be the death penalty, but only for perjury.




Pleading not guilty is simply the right to a trial. Pleading not guilty is not perjury. When a judge asks an accused for a plea, accused is not under oath.
Any person charged with an offense has the right to a trial.


Well I guess I learned something. I stick to my original idea though. Lying under oath in court should be grounds for the death penalty.

[58thecat]

So no empathy for those who are innocent, but convicted. A little bit of collateral damage is acceptable then?

As stated in an earlier post from another, today there is so much accurate evidence gathering that it is hard to wrongfully convict someone.
Like I said earlier crime will drop if your punk buddy was executed for a crime you are thinking about committing to get your drug fix etc...

[58thecat]

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/canada/2016/06/08/a-list-of-canadians-wrongly-convicted.html


We'd have killed a few innocent people.

We always make mistakes... we're human. The justice system tries to be as fair as possible.

I don't know if one can find a slam dunk evil.

Look at the dates of the articles...we are talking now 2017 that 20 years later we have better evidence gathering, accurate to a pinpoint and that is why we should have the death penalty to put the scum to rest forever, not to repeat, not to take again.

[TylerThomson]

Confession or DNA evidence. I said video footage, but that can be doctored.

Confessions can be coerced and DNA evidence cam be planted, or contaminated. You can always let someone wrongfully accused go with a hearty handshake and a fat check for wrongful imprisonment but you can't bring back a dead guy wrongfully convicted which happens more than you would think.

A much more fitting punishment for heinous criminals is solitary confinement for life. Once you're dead the punishment stops.

Unless you can be 100 percent sure 100 percent of the time on guilt you shouldn't be killing anyone because the minute ama innocent man dies anyone who supported the reinstatement of capital punishment is now guilty of that masks death and should find themselves on the wrong side of the rope they were so excited to toss over a tree branch.

[TylerThomson]

As stated in an earlier post from another, today there is so much accurate evidence gathering that it is hard to wrongfully convict someone.
Like I said earlier crime will drop if your punk buddy was executed for a crime you are thinking about committing to get your drug fix etc...

So why even have a trial then? The officer in charge of gathering the evidence should be able to hang you on the spot because there is no way they could be corrupt, having a bad day, prejudiced against a certain type of person, racist, gunning for a promotion and looking for a conviction, or be capable of making a mistake in anyway.

Careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

[TylerThomson]

https://www.popsci.com/dna-evidence-not-foolproof

http://dnapolicyinitiative.org/police-use-of-dna-mistakes-error-and-fraud/

http://innocencecanada.com/?ref=aidwyc

[CaberTosser]

So why even have a trial then? The officer in charge of gathering the evidence should be able to hang you on the spot because there is no way they could be corrupt, having a bad day, prejudiced against a certain type of person, racist, gunning for a promotion and looking for a conviction, or be capable of making a mistake in anyway.

Careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

So far, more innocent people die, get beaten and raped under the present system when these sociopaths are released, and their deaths are far less humane. This insistence that there would be rampant bad convictions is purely a figment of people's imaginations. The same updated police sciences that can prove a person guilty can also prove them innocent, if they indeed are. What has been the rate of bad convictions in the last 5 years? Digging back to the 1970's and 1980's for erroneous conviction examples isn't going to cut it.


Kind of ironic that in the posted examples of convicted people being exonerated that DNA evidence is fully accepted when exonerating a person, so why then is it not accepted when convicting a person....... That reeks of hypocrisy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Unregistered user]

Throughout history, capital punishment has been used as a means to silence political enemies. It doesn't take too much to fabricate a crime and "Prove" someone guilty, sell it to joe public and hang the bad guy as demanded by the lynch mob. Many threads on this forum back this up. My governments don't trust me to carry the means to protect myself, I sure as hell don't entrust to them the power to choose life or death over me or my fellow citizens.

[silverdoctor]

So far, more innocent people die, get beaten and raped under the present system when these sociopaths are released, and their deaths are far less humane.

Our prison system is designed to create sociopaths, it doesn't rehabilitate. People who go to jail for lesser crimes are tossed in with people who do greater crimes.

Like Kargus, 29 year old who was serving 165 days for ID theft and others, sharing a prison cell with an animal that was known for beating his cell mates. Even if Kargus survived his stretch, it likely would have changed him for the worse.

Put a person in solitary confinement for a year, that would drive anyone insane.

What's the answer? Don't know.

[TylerThomson]

So far, more innocent people die, get beaten and raped under the present system when these sociopaths are released, and their deaths are far less humane. This insistence that there would be rampant bad convictions is purely a figment of people's imaginations. The same updated police sciences that can prove a person guilty can also prove them innocent, if they indeed are. What has been the rate of bad convictions in the last 5 years? Digging back to the 1970's and 1980's for erroneous conviction examples isn't going to cut it.


Kind of ironic that in the posted examples of convicted people being exonerated that DNA evidence is fully accepted when exonerating a person, so why then is it not accepted when convicting a person....... That reeks of hypocrisy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Yout are building a strawman argument. People are convicted everyday on dna evidence just as it had exonerated some people. We have no idea how many people are wrongfully convicted until they are exonerated. If we knew they were wrongfully convicted when we convicted them they wouldn't have been convicted.

And just so we are clear you are saying you are ok with innocent people being sentenced to death? Sure hope you don't drop a stay hair somewhere that ama hour later becomes a crime scene.

[CaberTosser]

If mine is a strawman argument, then what exactly is yours? I stuck to the facts, no exaggeration whatsoever was made. Perhaps you should look up the definition what you're doing by suggesting what might happen if I shed an eyelash somewhere that would become a murder scene later on. That is an exaggeration and is a textbook straw man argument. Heck, I'm not in a DNA database to begin with (cue entrance of paranoid conspiracy posters, from both stage extreme left and stage extreme right)

[TylerThomson]

What facts did you post? I must have missed them. Fact is that innocent people are convicted to this day based on false or erroneous testimony, mishandling of evidence, racial bias etc. That's a fact.

It would be a much more scary world of it was ran by pitchfork carrying mobs like a lot of the posts in this forum seem to be made up of.

Feel free to duck the question again but ill ask one more time anyway. Are you ok with killing innocent people? If not then imprisonment is the better option as it allows you to apologize for getting it wrong.

[Newview01]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;3643667]


Well I guess I learned something. I stick to my original idea though. Lying under oath in court should be grounds for the death penalty.

X2

[58thecat]

So why even have a trial then? The officer in charge of gathering the evidence should be able to hang you on the spot because there is no way they could be corrupt, having a bad day, prejudiced against a certain type of person, racist, gunning for a promotion and looking for a conviction, or be capable of making a mistake in anyway.

Careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

Oh no you have the trial, if guilty of a hideous crime, execution...no retrials or dragging crap out, one day, one chance to say your part, gather all up, final decision. Done!

If I said what I wished for and got it this thread would not be discussed.

[CaberTosser]

What facts did you post? I must have missed them. Fact is that innocent people are convicted to this day based on false or erroneous testimony, mishandling of evidence, racial bias etc. That's a fact.

It would be a much more scary world of it was ran by pitchfork carrying mobs like a lot of the posts in this forum seem to be made up of.

Feel free to duck the question again but ill ask one more time anyway. Are you ok with killing innocent people? If not then imprisonment is the better option as it allows you to apologize for getting it wrong.

Kill 'em dead. Fast. I don't like the possibility that some innocents might get mixed in but in my opinion the math will work out that fewer innocent people overall will die under that scenario. And we won't be housing and creating more recidivists in prison. In my opinion the premise that so many people are innocent is believed by people suffering from delusions. The world is full of sociopathic predators and some deluded people think they're not to blame because of rough childhoods, fetal alcohol syndrome or any of the myriad of excuses touted by those who don't agree with personal responsibility for ones actions. I'll bow out of the discussion as it's clear to me you're a fanatic on the subject and won't be swayed. That being said, keep an eye on your own straw man arguments if you want to waggle that same finger at others.

[silverdoctor]

Kill 'em dead. Fast. I don't like the possibility that some innocents might get mixed in but in my opinion the math will work out that fewer innocent people overall will die under that scenario. And we won't be housing and creating more recidivists in prison. In my opinion the premise that so many people are innocent is believed by people suffering from delusions. The world is full of sociopathic predators and some deluded people think they're not to blame because of rough childhoods, fetal alcohol syndrome or any of the myriad of excuses touted by those who don't agree with personal responsibility for ones actions. I'll bow out of the discussion as it's clear to me you're a fanatic on the subject and won't be swayed. That being said, keep an eye on your own straw man arguments if you want to waggle that same finger at others.

I think your attitude would change if you ended up as an innocent in prison - or one of your family.

As I said earlier, our prisons are creating Sociopaths through punishment - they aren't designed for rehabilitation. Mind you, some can't be rehabbed.

[TylerThomson]

Kill 'em dead. Fast. I don't like the possibility that some innocents might get mixed in but in my opinion the math will work out that fewer innocent people overall will die under that scenario. And we won't be housing and creating more recidivists in prison. In my opinion the premise that so many people are innocent is believed by people suffering from delusions. The world is full of sociopathic predators and some deluded people think they're not to blame because of rough childhoods, fetal alcohol syndrome or any of the myriad of excuses touted by those who don't agree with personal responsibility for ones actions. I'll bow out of the discussion as it's clear to me you're a fanatic on the subject and won't be swayed. That being said, keep an eye on your own straw man arguments if you want to waggle that same finger at others.

Ok I'm the fanatic. Says the guy who's ok with killing innocent people. I'm simply advocating for a system that doesn't result in the death of innocent people. I understand bad things happen but Its been proven by the fact that bad things kept happening when capital punishment was in place that it is not an effective deterrent.

Its hilarious that you think I'm suffering from delusions when you openly admit that you think the world is full of sociopathic predators. It must be very scary where you live. Lock your doors and sleep tight.

[243 wild cat]

Whack 'em'n stack'em learn 'em 'n BURN 'EM!!!!

X 2000000:sign0176: 100%

[SoaringEagle]

In principle I am behind the idea of the death penalty, but the reality is that in practice it is problematic and could be very unjust.

[Spooner]

Y'all have a lot of faith in our legal system all of a sudden.

One thing I dont need is our corrupt government, legal professionals, and police forces with the ability to take our lives.

[CaberTosser]

Y'all have a lot of faith in our legal system all of a sudden.

One thing I dont need is our corrupt government, legal professionals, and police forces with the ability to take our lives.

That power already exists, just through indirect means. Bad economic policy means citizens may suffer, starve and some even commit suicide. Kill a persons entire industry like the NDP is trying with oil & gas and the outlook appears grim. People with various illnesses might die if medical facilities don't have certain equipment. All kinds of gov't decisions are literally life & death, and that's just when they're dealing with budgeting road construction & maintenance.......

[colt-44]

That power already exists, just through indirect means. Bad economic policy means citizens may suffer, starve and some even commit suicide. Kill a persons entire industry like the NDP is trying with oil & gas and the outlook appears grim. People with various illnesses might die if medical facilities don't have certain equipment. All kinds of gov't decisions are literally life & death, and that's just when they're dealing with budgeting road construction & maintenance.......

good grief . cry me a river and get real while you're at it

[purgatory.sv]

My third post on this thread.

Nothing is perfect ,no answer will solve the problem of humanity.

But an example could provide a line.

I believe capital punishment can work,and i would be willing to live with it .


If the process works i believe balance could be obtained.

Unfortunately my believes are mine.

[58thecat]

So no empathy for those who are innocent, but convicted. A little bit of collateral damage is acceptable then?

A defining moment for a better outcome to all of mankind...

[58thecat]

My third post on this thread.

Nothing is perfect ,no answer will solve the problem of humanity.

But an example could provide a line.

I believe capital punishment can work,and i would be willing to live with it .


If the process works i believe balance could be obtained.

Unfortunately my believes are mine.

Yup.

[CaberTosser]

good grief . cry me a river and get real while you're at it

Care to point out where my statement is inaccurate? I'll put on some coffee while I wait for your witty reply that consists only of three catch phrases and no substance.


I'll admit I get rather animated on this topic, and I'll note why: From my perspective, all of the people who constantly support things such as short sentences and rehabilitation for murderers and pedophiles are in my opinion the reason we have pedophiles and murders being released to walk among us and re-offend. And most do. Murderers such as gang members might not kill again, but they'll surely be involved in assaults and the drug trade. Pedophiles can never stop unless they commit suicide, same goes for those who are violent against women, it's simply in their nature. One sees crime frequently in the media but I also have the Calgary Police on my FB feed so I tend to catch every warning to the public when a dangerous offender is released; I also see the wanted 'posters' and such that get posted when they're seeking suspects/offenders (take for instance the pair who were recently arrested for the quadruple homicide where 3 bodies were found in a burned out car in a Calgary neighborhood under construction and another was found at the highway 8 and highway 22 traffic circle) . On top of that I have a number of police officer friends and clients so I get attuned to the frustration on their end, what with spending inordinate amounts of their time dealing with repeat offenders and frustrating court procedures. The pendulum has swung too far in favor of the scumbags and a correction is due because 'gravity' will have to stop the current direction pretty soon. When harsher punishments are suggested people bemoan like the sky is falling and they will be subject to jackbooted thuggery when either:

1: Nothing at all will happen to them
Or
2: Something should happen to them because they shouldn't have been doing that.
Or
3: They have friends or relatives who are criminal degenerates and they don't hold them accountable for their crimes.


Thats my take, you all may well have other perspectives.

[elkhunter11]

Confessions can be coerced and DNA evidence cam be planted, or contaminated. You can always let someone wrongfully accused go with a hearty handshake and a fat check for wrongful imprisonment but you can't bring back a dead guy wrongfully convicted which happens more than you would think.

A much more fitting punishment for heinous criminals is solitary confinement for life. Once you're dead the punishment stops.

Unless you can be 100 percent sure 100 percent of the time on guilt you shouldn't be killing anyone because the minute ama innocent man dies anyone who supported the reinstatement of capital punishment is now guilty of that masks death and should find themselves on the wrong side of the rope they were so excited to toss over a tree branch.

If the person that coerses the confession or plants the evidence knows that he will be executed if he is found out, the odds of him doing either will drop dramatically.

[silverdoctor]

If the person that coerses the confession or plants the evidence knows that he will be executed if he is found out, the odds of him doing either will drop dramatically.

Really? RCMP facing charges at all for the BC bombing plot?

[silverdoctor]

In the USA, they legally execute what, 20 to 30 people a year? In the last 5 years in Canada, 170+ legally innocent people have died in Canadian jails - legally innocent means they haven't been convicted. Still waiting trial. Sorry folks, but that doesn't sit well with me.
By some of your rules, John Nuttall and Amanda Korody would be executed.

More than half the jail population of Canada is awaiting trial - some are waiting for years.

So how does an innocent person sent to jail in Canada? Overzealous police? Lazy prosecutors? Have to wonder.

I'm amazed at how many Canadians know so much about the American legal system and rights from American TV, but don't know squat about our own legal system. You get arrested in Canada - we don't have Miranda style rights - you do not have the right to have an attorney present when being interrogated by police. You do have a right to call an attorney, if you can't get ahold of your own within a reasonable amount of time, then you talk to a free lawyer. Lawyer will probably tell you to shut your mouth, take the right to remain silent.

Police can lie to you, they can coerce you, they can buffalo you - but you can't lie to them.

Now if you want to call me a bleeding heart, go for it.

[covey ridge]

In Canada, one has the right to retain and instruct council without delay.

[silverdoctor]

In Canada, one has the right to retain and instruct council without delay.

Wouldn't it be nice if one could have a lawyer present during questioning? It's proven in the United States that having an attorney present doesn't downplay the outcome.

[covey ridge]

Police can lie to you, they can coerce you, they can buffalo you - but you can't lie to them.

Now if you want to call me a bleeding heart, go for it.

You for sure can lie to the police in Canada and there is not much that can be done. If a statement is obtained by police it is judged by a trail within a trial. If the judge finds it was coerced or something was done to make the accused feel coerced, it may be chucked out.

Not a bleeding heart but you really do not know much about Canadian law.

[silverdoctor]

You for sure can lie to the police in Canada and there is not much that can be done. If a statement is obtained by police it is judged by a trail within a trial. If the judge finds it was coerced or something was done to make the accused feel coerced, it may be chucked out.

Not a bleeding heart but you really do not know much about Canadian law.

Yeah, you can lie to the police - everything is legal til you get caught. if you get caught it called obstruction. And meanwhile you could be sitting in a jail cell for months and months awaiting an actual trial to be found innocent. No thanks.

[elkhunter11]

You for sure can lie to the police in Canada and there is not much that can be done. If a statement is obtained by police it is judged by a trail within a trial. If the judge finds it was coerced or something was done to make the accused feel coerced, it may be chucked out.

Not a bleeding heart but you really do not know much about Canadian law.

But in the case of coerced testimony, those people doing the coercing should be charged. I am not aware of anyone being charged as a result of the police coercing the false testimony that helped to convict Donald Marshall.

[covey ridge]

Yeah, you can lie to the police - everything is legal til you get caught. if you get caught it called obstruction. And meanwhile you could be sitting in a jail cell for months and months awaiting an actual trial to be found innocent. No thanks.

Obstruction may involve a lie, but being caught in lie is not obstruction. I would suggest you actually read Canadian obstruction law. No sitting in jail for months either. To have that happen the crown is required to show cause why accused should be kept in custody.

As far as interview without lawyer? The accused after being cautioned or informed of rights which include to not say anything unless accused wishes to say anything, simply has to say that he does not wish to say anything.

In Canada no one is obliged to provide evidence for his own conviction and that very thing will be tested before any confession evidence is admitted.

[covey ridge]

But in the case of coerced testimony, those people doing the coercing should be charged. I am not aware of anyone being charged as a result of the police coercing the false testimony that helped to convict Donald Marshall.

I thought that case was not so much about an accused being coerced but the fact that the crown did not supply the defense with all the evidence even that thought to be irrelevant.

Probably because of that case there were changes to the evidence act and the crown is now required to disclose everything to defense, even things that were not relevant.

Anyway the Marshall case is good reason for not having an execution soon after conviction or actually not having a death penalty.

[elkhunter11]

I thought that case was not so much about an accused being coerced but the fact that the crown did not supply the defense with all the evidence even that thought to be irrelevant.

Probably because of that case there were changes to the evidence act and the crown is now required to disclose everything to defense, even things that were not relevant.

Anyway the Marshall case is good reason for not having an execution soon after conviction or actually not having a death penalty.

The crown/police coerced also coerced witnesses to give false testimony that incriminated Marshall Do you believe that the crown/police would have done what they did, if doing so would have put their own lives on the line?

[covey ridge]

The crown/police coerced also coerced witnesses to give false testimony that incriminated Marshall Do you believe that the crown/police would have done what they did, if doing so would have put their own lives on the line?

I never read that there was any evidence that the police had coerced witnesses to give false testimony. I did read that after the trial andconviction the police may have been presented with evidence that lead to another person being identified as the killer.

Cases like this convince me more than ever that the death sentence should be abolished.

[covey ridge]

Witnesses knowingly giving false testimony should be charged with perjury and anyone that coached witnesses to give false testimony should be charged with obstruction of justice.

[colt-44]

That power already exists, just through indirect means. Bad economic policy means citizens may suffer, starve and some even commit suicide. Kill a persons entire industry like the NDP is trying with oil & gas and the outlook appears grim. People with various illnesses might die if medical facilities don't have certain equipment. All kinds of gov't decisions are literally life & death, and that's just when they're dealing with budgeting road construction & maintenance.......

I really think it's time for you to consider another place to live and call home .. yes sir

[covey ridge]

I could not find anything on line that says witnesses were coerced into giving false testimony but I did find this:


When Marshall's conviction was overturned, the presiding judge placed some blame on Marshall for the miscarriage of justice, calling him "the author of his own misfortune."

[elkhunter11]

From the Royal Commission. Copy and paste didn't work well, but it does reference the coerced false testimony. And the people that coerced the false testimony were never held accountable. MacIntyre should have done time in prison for what he did, which led to the wrongful conviction.

https://novascotia.ca/just/marshall_inquiry/_docs/Royal%20Commission%20on%20the%20Donald%20Marshall% 20Jr%20Prosecution_findings.pdf

None
of
this,
as
we
now
know,
was
true.
The
information
in
these
second
statements
came
from
Pratico
and
Chant
accepting
suggestions
John
Maclntyre
made
to
them.
His
attempt
to
build
a
case
against
Marshall
that
conformed
to
his
theory
about
what
had
happened
went
far
beyond
the
bounds
of
acceptable
police
behaviour.
Maclntyre
took
Pratico,
an
impressionable,
unstable
teenager,
to
a
murder
scene,
offered
the
youth
his
own
version
of
events
and
then
persuaded
Pratico
to
accept
that
version
as
the
basis
for
what
became
Pratico's
detailed
and
incriminating
statement.
Maclntyre
then
pressured
Chant,
who
was
on
probation
and
frightened
about
being
sent
to
jail,
into
not
only
corroborating
Pratico's
statement,
but
also
into
putting
Pratico
at
the
scene
of
the
crime.
Maclntyre's
oppressive
tactics
in
questioning
these
and
other
juvenile
witnesses
were
totally
unacceptable.
Largely
because
of
the
untrue
statements

[covey ridge]

elkhunter11

Thanks for posting that link. I read about half and then my mind went numb. I did read enough to conclude that some heads should have rolled.

[TylerThomson]

That power already exists, just through indirect means. Bad economic policy means citizens may suffer, starve and some even commit suicide. Kill a persons entire industry like the NDP is trying with oil & gas and the outlook appears grim. People with various illnesses might die if medical facilities don't have certain equipment. All kinds of gov't decisions are literally life & death, and that's just when they're dealing with budgeting road construction & maintenance.......

And another strawman is built.

[CaberTosser]

I really think it's time for you to consider another place to live and call home .. yes sir

Troll much? You're equally welcome to move, might I suggest the Ryerson campus?

And Tyler, you need to realize that not everything is a straw man argument when you can't (or won't) formulate a response to it. Gov't policy and budgeting does affect death statistics, there is no exaggeration whatsoever in suggesting that. It seems to be a gag-reflex with you: "Straw man arguement! I'm triggered!" . Bring something to the table dude. You over dependence on that phrase runs into being ad hominem in nature, similar to throwing a game board into the air and frankly it's just not much of a debating tool.

[TylerThomson]

That power already exists, just through indirect means. Bad economic policy means citizens may suffer, starve and some even commit suicide. Kill a persons entire industry like the NDP is trying with oil & gas and the outlook appears grim. People with various illnesses might die if medical facilities don't have certain equipment. All kinds of gov't decisions are literally life & death, and that's just when they're dealing with budgeting road construction & maintenance.......

Troll much?

And Tyler, you need to realize that not everything is a straw man argument when you can't formulate a response to it. Gov't policy and budgeting does affect death statistics, there is no exaggeration whatsoever in suggesting that. It seems to be a gag-reflex with you: "Straw man arguement! I'm triggered!" . Bring something to the table dude.

I realise not everything is a strawman argument but what you are doing here is exactly that. Much of what you post could also be called a false dichotomy. That's where a person pretends there are only two options available, in this case capital punishment and putting violent criminals back on the street. It must be difficult for you grasp what I'm trying to say as it appears you are only capable of seeing the world in black and white. Unfortunately for you it is actually filled with shades of grey.

I'm not defending putting violent criminals back on the street. I'm not defending our current system. I'm in no way triggered. I'm also the furthest thing from a bleeding hearted liberal.

I am however a decent enough human being to see that killing innocent people is wrong. I'm smart enough to know that there must be a middle ground somewhere between kill em all and lawlessness. And I'm jaded enough to know that any powers you give to the government or anyone else will eventually be abused.

You keep on cheerleading the deaths of innocents though, it's a good look for you.

Don't forget to lock your doors.

[TylerThomson]

Oh and just so that we are clear a straw man argument is when you create a response to an argument that gives the impression that you are participating in the discussion at hand but in reality you created a point to argue that has nothing to do with the argument put forward by the other party. Which is exactly what you did when you implied multiple times that those who don't support your point of view instead support the release of violent criminals. You did it again when concern was expressed over giving the government these powers by trying to equate capital punishment to road budgets. These types of tactics are usually employed by people who can't put forth a compelling argument on the topic at hand.

Here's a couple definitions to help clear it up for you.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Straw_man
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/straw%20man

[DExplorer]

Brutal