Alberta outfitter fined $10,000 in Yukon

[Don Meredith]

From the Whitehorse Star:
http://bit.ly/2iskxA5

[Lefty-Canuck]

Funny how some names just keep popping up over and over again.

LC

[NCC]

"Shmyr will also be required to post about the convictions and fines on his business Facebook page from Nov. 1, 2017 to Jan. 31, 2018."

There's a judge with some common sense that knows how to make a law breaker feel the pain for his indiscretions.

He was punished more in the Yukon for a procedural misstep than he was in AB for shooting a bunch of critters illegally.

[HowSwedeItIs]

I like the fact that he has to post about it on his facebook page, at what point do these outfitters just give up

[crazy_davey]

Finally, a good use for Facebook.

[Bigwoodsman]

This clown should receive a lifetime ban from hunting and fishing in Canada! Fined 500,000.00 for his neglect failure to pay should result in a 25 year sentence.

BW

[Sigg]

Saw a picture of him with a caribou he shot a couple years ago in the Yukon on one of the outfitters websites. I wonder why there was no mention of that if the moose was in the relative same time frame.

[Battle Rat]

I like the fact that he has to post about it on his facebook page, at what point do these outfitters just give up

X2.
APOS should post their members convictions too.

[Weedy1]

"Shmyr will also be required to post about the convictions and fines on his business Facebook page from Nov. 1, 2017 to Jan. 31, 2018."

Set your timer for Nov 1, 12:01AM

https://www.facebook.com/BigTineAdventures/

[Torkdiesel]

Couldn't of happened to a more deserving individual.

I honestly believe this was most likely an oversight as far as the hunting while prohibited in another province goes. As for the failure to obtain an export permit that's just a criminal once again thinking he's above the law.

But.... this is by far one of the finest examples of karma I have ever seen.

He's finally starting to get what he really deserved for poaching all those deer and selling them on E bay. Although he was charged with 140 plus counts of trafficking wildlife he was only convicted of two.

Ironically in the wake of all this his brother hunted the Yukon this fall for Caribou. He was charged and convicted a couple years ago in Alberta for letting a hunter he was guiding shoot a whitetail out of the truck window on private property they didn't have permission on. I wonder if he was still under suspension when he hunted in the Yukon ???

[35 whelen]

I wonder if this is the Moose he killed in the Yukon what he got busted for quite a moosehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/ef4c2f397dae7db232415418a27260a1.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[elkhunter11]

Funny how some names just keep popping up over and over again.

LC

It seems like there are a lot of repeat offenders.

[nube]

I think that big moose he shot was this year. I had a chat with this individual one day over some PM's and he is quite the guy with an attitude that is unbelievable. Won't hurt my feelings to see the fines pile up any!

[Torkdiesel]

I think that big moose he shot was this year. I had a chat with this individual one day over some PM's and he is quite the guy with an attitude that is unbelievable. Won't hurt my feelings to see the fines pile up any!

X2

He's a living legend in his own mind above all others

[Torkdiesel]

I wonder if this is the Moose he killed in the Yukon what he got busted for quite a moosehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/ef4c2f397dae7db232415418a27260a1.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

That's this year's moose.

I'm willing to bet he got a continuance on his sentencing until after this falls hunt was completed.

[sage 13]

So who is checking his face book page after the 1st to see if he posts what he has to.

[boah]

dt.

[boah]

ht tp://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2015/12/23/spirit-river-outfitter-fined

APOS doesn't care. They need to be shut down also.

[boah]

Wasn't there another Alberta guide that got charged a year or 2 ago? He said he didn't read or know the regs?

[Torkdiesel]

ht tp://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2015/12/23/spirit-river-outfitter-fined

APOS doesn't care. They need to be shut down also.

APOS doesn't need to be shut down. But the government has to take control of the allocations and have the power to punish the Outfitters and take away allocations.

APOS can be the voice of the Outfitters just like the GOABC next door in BC

There are always going to be a few bad apples, and a couple truly rotten ones. If APOS would punt these habitual offenders it would help their image.

[Torkdiesel]

Wasn't there another Alberta guide that got charged a year or 2 ago? He said he didn't read or know the regs?

You're not aloud to say his name here, insta ban 😳

[boah]

If APOS would punt these habitual offenders it would help their image.

I doubt this will ever happen.

[Torkdiesel]

I doubt this will ever happen.

Not until the members demand it, it won't.

[bobalong]

It seems like there are a lot of repeat offenders.

And it always seems that other members of APOS seem to know all about them and do nothing.........which sort of confirms that APOS definitely needs to be shut down. Appears to me corrupt on many levels from top to bottom.

Similar to the RCMP, many members seem to know all about the bad apples, but nothing happens until one (or a few) of their own finally steps up and turns them in.

[Torkdiesel]

And it always seems that other members of APOS seem to know all about them and do nothing.........which sort of confirms that APOS definitely needs to be shut down. Appears to me corrupt on many levels from top to bottom.

Similar to the RCMP, many members seem to know all about the bad apples, but nothing happens until one (or a few) of their own finally steps up and turns them in.

Just so we're clear sir, I'm not a member of APOS.

I'd love to see these habitual offenders and Outfitters that can't comprehend simple regulations lose their licenses.

People do make mistakes, and some have paid for them.

The ones that continue to break the law should pay

[Norwest Alta]

Seems like the fines are just the price of doing business. Maybe taking away their livelihood would make them pay attention a little better.

[Torkdiesel]

Seems like the fines are just the price of doing business. Maybe taking away their livelihood would make them pay attention a little better.

In this case since he wasn't outfitting and was hunting for himself I would say no.
But I agree, pull the allocations for gross misconduct and watch the line get a lot straighter !

[dfrobert]

Not surprised.

[Hilgy]

I wonder if this is the Moose he killed in the Yukon what he got busted for quite a moosehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/ef4c2f397dae7db232415418a27260a1.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

The comment by Jason Hall below that picture is pretty funny. not sure how long it will last up there.

[Pathfinder76]

In this case since he wasn't outfitting and was hunting for himself I would say no.
But I agree, pull the allocations for gross misconduct and watch the line get a lot straighter !

In what other industry is that okay to do?

[elkhunter11]

I doubt this will ever happen.

When an organization allows a convicted poacher to be their president, they obviously don't care, so no, unless the government steps in, it will never happen.

[Torkdiesel]

In what other industry is that okay to do?

Ok to do what ?

[Ronji]

When an organization allows a convicted poacher to be their president, they obviously don't care, so no, unless the government steps in, it will never happen.

Its was just a matter of time this came up.

Lets beat the proverbial dead horse again, and again.

[gman1978]

Old Shmyr dog is up old tricks. Somebody must keep padding his ego for him to "keep on keeping on". Why doesn't this guy just give up and go do something else.

[elkhunter11]

Its was just a matter of time this came up.

Lets beat the proverbial dead horse again, and again.

Until enough people get fed up, and changes are made.

[.243dude]

The comment by Jason Hall below that picture is pretty funny. not sure how long it will last up there.

He already deleted it lol
I just sent him a pm. We'll see what he says.

[bobalong]

In this case since he wasn't outfitting and was hunting for himself I would say no.
But I agree, pull the allocations for gross misconduct and watch the line get a lot straighter !

So are you suggesting that because he is poaching, committing wildlife infractions etc. on his own time that APOS should do nothing. He is suppose to be a professional. The character of a person is determined by what he does when no one is watching........pretty well says it all.

Using the RCMP as a comparison again, so if an officer is caught stealing, speeding, assault etc. when off duty it is your opinion that it should have no reflection on his job as a law enforcement officer.?:thinking-006:

[elkhunter11]

So are you suggesting that because he is poaching, committing wildlife infractions etc. on his own time that APOS should do nothing. He is suppose to be a professional. The character of a person is determined by what he does when no one is watching........pretty well says it all.

Using the RCMP as a comparison again, so if an officer is caught stealing, speeding, assault etc. when off duty it is your opinion that it should have no reflection on his job as a law enforcement officer.?:thinking-006:

I agree 100%. In either case, their off duty behavior is a reflection on the organization.

[Bigwoodsman]

There are always going to be a few bad apples, and a couple truly rotten ones. If APOS would punt these habitual offenders it would help their image.[/QUOTE]

If APOS would take the lead, in these cases it would go along ways to showing credibility of an organization that should be supporting ethical and legal hunting.

If they don't a fire should be lit under this organization that would put them in the public eye, and not in a glowing light either.

BW

[crazy_davey]

Its was just a matter of time this came up.

Lets beat the proverbial dead horse again, and again.

That's because it needs to be beaten. Again and again...

[bobalong]

There are always going to be a few bad apples, and a couple truly rotten ones. If APOS would punt these habitual offenders it would help their image.

If APOS would take the lead, in these cases it would go along ways to showing credibility of an organization that should be supporting ethical and legal hunting.

If they don't a fire should be lit under this organization that would put them in the public eye, and not in a glowing light either. BW

I see you and others saying a "few" bad apples, yet the membership votes in a member to be President of APOS who has been convicted of wildlife offenses. That is a 100% in control of the members to change, yet they have chosen not to.......what does that say about the majority of the voting members, has to more than a few to make that happen.:mad0030:

[purgatory.sv]

Frustration .

[58thecat]

I see you and others saying a "few" bad apples, yet the membership votes in a member to be President of APOS who has been convicted of wildlife offenses. That is a 100% in control of the members to change, yet they have chosen not to.......what does that say about the majority of the voting members, has to more than a few to make that happen.:mad0030:

Mafia:rolleye2:

President convicted of crimes runs the show...don't answer the door in the wee hours of the morning...

[Bigwoodsman]

I see you and others saying a "few" bad apples, yet the membership votes in a member to be President of APOS who has been convicted of wildlife offenses. That is a 100% in control of the members to change, yet they have chosen not to.......what does that say about the majority of the voting members, has to more than a few to make that happen.:mad0030:

What it says is that APOS needs to be taken to task. There should be a government review of the operations of APOS. The public should be raising a stink over this. This is actually a topic that the antis and the hunters could get together on.

Now if the president of APOS had a pair he'd stand up and make this right, but don't hold your breath on that. He has no reason to yet!

BW

[MAC]

I see you and others saying a "few" bad apples, yet the membership votes in a member to be President of APOS who has been convicted of wildlife offenses. That is a 100% in control of the members to change, yet they have chosen not to.......what does that say about the majority of the voting members, has to more than a few to make that happen.:mad0030:


I know a little about this and all I can say is if a boot is on your throat and you are told what is expected or you cant play anymore you tend to look out for yourself. Its not the majority. They need to shake that tree till the top falls off

MAC

[Torkdiesel]

Seems like the fines are just the price of doing business. Maybe taking away their livelihood would make them pay attention a little better.

I was referring to this ^^^^^^ bobalong. This had nothing to do with him outfitting, he was poaching personally. So no, fines are not the price of business in this case.



So are you suggesting that because he is poaching, committing wildlife infractions etc. on his own time that APOS should do nothing. He is suppose to be a professional. The character of a person is determined by what he does when no one is watching........pretty well says it all.

Using the RCMP as a comparison again, so if an officer is caught stealing, speeding, assault etc. when off duty it is your opinion that it should have no reflection on his job as a law enforcement officer.?:thinking-006:

Nowhere did I say anything he did was ok. And his personal poaching should directly effect his outfitting business.

[elkhunter11]

I know a little about this and all I can say is if a boot is on your throat and you are told what is expected or you cant play anymore you tend to look out for yourself. Its not the majority. They need to shake that tree till the top falls off

MAC


That makes it sound as though criminal actions may be taking place, and APOS needs to be investigated, and some people need to be dealt with by the authorities.

[Canadasnowman]

This clown should receive a lifetime ban from hunting and fishing in Canada! Fined 500,000.00 for his neglect failure to pay should result in a 25 year sentence.

BW

Yup, I like this. GO is a POS

[mightybuck]

Apps is a joke these guys make a bad name for outfitting in Alberta. Until they start fining or suspending these low life's it will continue to be a joke

[Red Bullets]

I don't agree with what the judge said. Deputy Judge Herman Seidemann III said...“I’m really hopeful that you have learned your lesson, Sir”...“You’re a professional and you’re not supposed to make mistakes.”

Shmyr is not a professional. Unless the judge meant offender.

[58thecat]

I don't agree with what the judge said. Deputy Judge Herman Seidemann III said...“I’m really hopeful that you have learned your lesson, Sir”...“You’re a professional and you’re not supposed to make mistakes.”

Shmyr is not a professional. Unless the judge meant offender.

Not make Mistakes! as in better at covering things up?:sign0176:

[bucksman]

surprised he hasn't created a fake account yet to defend himself

[boah]

You're not aloud to say his name here, insta ban 😳

Why? One guy is getting his name “ Shmyred”. And another is protected for making the same mistake.

[Torkdiesel]

Why? One guy is getting his name “ Shmyred”. And another is protected for making the same mistake.

Go ahead and post it then, I was just trying to save the guy some hassle

The guy currently getting what he deserves is right up there with the worst there has ever been. I can only imagine how many animals died illegally while he was trafficking all those "dead heads"

[H380]

wonder what the guys at "Western Extreme" think about this latest escapade ??:thinking-006::thinking-006:

[ksteed17]

Well he made his first post but is deleting every post that isnt a pat on his back. Good thing his mommy posted on there to prop up his reputation haha.

[nube]

Anyone ever google his name yet?
http://www.prrecordgazette.com/2004/03/23/spirit-river-hockey-player-convicted-of-assault

Same Guy I bet.....

He also goes by Blake Jordan on Facebook if you wanted to know. I've had more than an interesting conversation with him on there before...

[reelhooker]

This guy is the laughing stock of so many. He does own up on the page to his 2 previous convictions, but not the 100+ charges that where laid.
This guy is a repeat offender and will never learn. He is not smart enough to learn and not smart enough to get away with it. So how many animals has he poached that he was not caught for. Ask the locals around SR, why the big muleys are all gone......

[pikergolf]

Here's his facebook post. He sounds really contrite.

Back in December 2014 I booked a hunt in the Yukon planned for September 2015. The hunt went on as planned and I harvested a bull moose. Almost a year later local conservation officers came to my residence with a warrant to seize my moose antlers and question me about the hunt in 2015. They then brought it to my attention that during my 2015 hunt I was not eligible to hold a valid Yukon hunting license because my hunting privileges at home were suspended at the time. This caught me by complete surprise as I still to that day had no acknowledgment of such rule/law in the Yukon. Prior to booking the hunt in 2014 I spoke with numerous Yukon outfitters about booking a trip and not one of them informed me of this, but I can't put the blame on them. The onus is on me as the hunter too know/learn the laws and do my own research on regulations in other other jurisdictions. I was recently in court in the Yukon,where his Honor acknowledged that I made a mistake and accepted the fact that it wasn't my intention to break any law during my 2015 trip but said I was careless on not doing my research before going up there. I was convicted on providing a false statement which was me signing my 2015 hunting license to make it valid when I was not eligible to do so. By virtue of that charge I was convicted of illegal hunting because my license was not valid and convicted of transporting my moose antlers and cape out of the territory. Even though at the I stopped in at a Yukon Conservation Office and proceeded to follow protocol to obtain permits export not knowing that I was in the wrong and not eligible to be there hunting. It's very clear to me now that if you are suspended in any jurisdiction you my not be eligible to hunt in another.
I received a total of $10,000 in fines,a 3 years Yukon hunting license suspension and my 2015 moose horns were surrendered. His Honor also ordered me to make this post which I had no objections to. I'd like to now forewarn all you outdoorsman to keep up on their local rules and regulations, as well as in other areas you may an on hunting. Don't just assume you know the answers to everything as rules and regulations can change from time to time,some without warning. So do your best to keep up on them and don't make the clearly avoidable mistake that I made. Don't just assume you know things,freshen up on the regulations every year, and if you can't find the answers your looking for be sure to ask someone.
Be safe out there and good hunting.

[sage 13]

Here's his facebook post. He sounds really contrite.

Back in December 2014 I booked a hunt in the Yukon planned for September 2015. The hunt went on as planned and I harvested a bull moose. Almost a year later local conservation officers came to my residence with a warrant to seize my moose antlers and question me about the hunt in 2015. They then brought it to my attention that during my 2015 hunt I was not eligible to hold a valid Yukon hunting license because my hunting privileges at home were suspended at the time. This caught me by complete surprise as I still to that day had no acknowledgment of such rule/law in the Yukon. Prior to booking the hunt in 2014 I spoke with numerous Yukon outfitters about booking a trip and not one of them informed me of this, but I can't put the blame on them. The onus is on me as the hunter too know/learn the laws and do my own research on regulations in other other jurisdictions. I was recently in court in the Yukon,where his Honor acknowledged that I made a mistake and accepted the fact that it wasn't my intention to break any law during my 2015 trip but said I was careless on not doing my research before going up there. I was convicted on providing a false statement which was me signing my 2015 hunting license to make it valid when I was not eligible to do so. By virtue of that charge I was convicted of illegal hunting because my license was not valid and convicted of transporting my moose antlers and cape out of the territory. Even though at the I stopped in at a Yukon Conservation Office and proceeded to follow protocol to obtain permits export not knowing that I was in the wrong and not eligible to be there hunting. It's very clear to me now that if you are suspended in any jurisdiction you my not be eligible to hunt in another.
I received a total of $10,000 in fines,a 3 years Yukon hunting license suspension and my 2015 moose horns were surrendered. His Honor also ordered me to make this post which I had no objections to. I'd like to now forewarn all you outdoorsman to keep up on their local rules and regulations, as well as in other areas you may an on hunting. Don't just assume you know the answers to everything as rules and regulations can change from time to time,some without warning. So do your best to keep up on them and don't make the clearly avoidable mistake that I made. Don't just assume you know things,freshen up on the regulations every year, and if you can't find the answers your looking for be sure to ask someone.
Be safe out there and good hunting.

No mention of initially lying about were the cape was or no export permit for it, but maybe that falls under different charges not the Yukon ones.

[elkhunter11]

If he keeps this up, he could eventually replace McMahon as the most convicted Alberta outfitter.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

And just like NcMahon he will likely never lose his allocation or his membership in APOS.

[Sooner]

I just read his FB page. Made himself out to be quite the good guy warning others not to make his mistake. He could be a politician with his double talk. And his mommy put in a good word too. Even got on 2 more Yukon hunts before his trial. Sounds like he knows the rules quite well.


Brutal for the truly good outfitters out there to have to defend their business because of bad apples and a organisation who does not discipline the convicted.

[Puma]

I see Blake has his story up on his Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/BigTineAdventures/

[wildwoods]

Here's his facebook post. He sounds really contrite.

Back in December 2014 I booked a hunt in the Yukon planned for September 2015. The hunt went on as planned and I harvested a bull moose. Almost a year later local conservation officers came to my residence with a warrant to seize my moose antlers and question me about the hunt in 2015. They then brought it to my attention that during my 2015 hunt I was not eligible to hold a valid Yukon hunting license because my hunting privileges at home were suspended at the time. This caught me by complete surprise as I still to that day had no acknowledgment of such rule/law in the Yukon. Prior to booking the hunt in 2014 I spoke with numerous Yukon outfitters about booking a trip and not one of them informed me of this, but I can't put the blame on them. The onus is on me as the hunter too know/learn the laws and do my own research on regulations in other other jurisdictions. I was recently in court in the Yukon,where his Honor acknowledged that I made a mistake and accepted the fact that it wasn't my intention to break any law during my 2015 trip but said I was careless on not doing my research before going up there. I was convicted on providing a false statement which was me signing my 2015 hunting license to make it valid when I was not eligible to do so. By virtue of that charge I was convicted of illegal hunting because my license was not valid and convicted of transporting my moose antlers and cape out of the territory. Even though at the I stopped in at a Yukon Conservation Office and proceeded to follow protocol to obtain permits export not knowing that I was in the wrong and not eligible to be there hunting. It's very clear to me now that if you are suspended in any jurisdiction you my not be eligible to hunt in another.
I received a total of $10,000 in fines,a 3 years Yukon hunting license suspension and my 2015 moose horns were surrendered. His Honor also ordered me to make this post which I had no objections to. I'd like to now forewarn all you outdoorsman to keep up on their local rules and regulations, as well as in other areas you may an on hunting. Don't just assume you know the answers to everything as rules and regulations can change from time to time,some without warning. So do your best to keep up on them and don't make the clearly avoidable mistake that I made. Don't just assume you know things,freshen up on the regulations every year, and if you can't find the answers your looking for be sure to ask someone.
Be safe out there and good hunting.

I was also surprised at the length of the post. Hopefully this is all behind him now. Ya flame away folks. Say what you want about him having to do it. it's well written and one can only hope he is sincere.

[elkhunter11]

It was just an honest mistake.

Just like this one.
http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2015/12/23/spirit-river-outfitter-fined

Or this one

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2009/12/11/hefty-fine-for-illegal-trafficking-in-antlers

He is really a nice guy

http://www.prrecordgazette.com/2004/03/23/spirit-river-hockey-player-convicted-of-assault

[ResidentSpokesman]

It was just an honest mistake.

Just like this one.
http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2015/12/23/spirit-river-outfitter-fined

Or this one

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2009/12/11/hefty-fine-for-illegal-trafficking-in-antlers

He is really a nice guy

http://www.prrecordgazette.com/2004/03/23/spirit-river-hockey-player-convicted-of-assault


In reality he actually is a friendly guy and a skilled hunter / guide. Obviously the man has made mistakes in the past. I'm glad to see that he's owning it 👍

The way some of the hyenas attack and berate the guy is sickening though. It seems that every time an Alberta Outfitter is mentioned around here it sure gets these losers worked up.

People make mistakes. Grow up.

[burbotman]

In reality he actually is a friendly guy and a skilled hunter / guide. Obviously the man has made mistakes in the past. I'm glad to see that he's owning it 👍

The way some of the hyenas attack and berate the guy is sickening though. It seems that every time an Alberta Outfitter is mentioned around here it sure gets these losers worked up.

People make mistakes. Grow up.

Is there a threshold of allowable mistakes?

[elkhunter11]

In reality he actually is a friendly guy and a skilled hunter / guide. Obviously the man has made mistakes in the past. I'm glad to see that he's owning it 👍

The way some of the hyenas attack and berate the guy is sickening though. It seems that every time an Alberta Outfitter is mentioned around here it sure gets these losers worked up.

People make mistakes. Grow up.

One conviction is a mistake, by the time you reach three separate incidents totalling five convictions under the wildlife act, you have become a seasoned poacher, who obviously does not care about the regulations.

[diamonddave]

In reality he actually is a friendly guy and a skilled hunter / guide. Obviously the man has made mistakes in the past. I'm glad to see that he's owning it 👍

The way some of the hyenas attack and berate the guy is sickening though. It seems that every time an Alberta Outfitter is mentioned around here it sure gets these losers worked up.

People make mistakes. Grow up.

Once is a mistake, 5 times is a habitual offender..... Sounds like you two are pretty good buddies, be careful of the company you keep.....

[Hooter]

One conviction is a mistake, by the time you reach three separate incidents totalling five convictions under the wildlife act, you have become a seasoned poacher, who obviously does not care about the regulations.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone makes mistakes, and most learn from those mistakes, this guy doesn't. Lifetime suspension is in order in my opinion.

[Roughneck Country]

I just read his FB page. Made himself out to be quite the good guy warning others not to make his mistake. He could be a politician with his double talk. And his mommy put in a good word too. Even got on 2 more Yukon hunts before his trial. Sounds like he knows the rules quite well.


Brutal for the truly good outfitters out there to have to defend their business because of bad apples and a organisation who does not discipline the convicted.

I get that people think APOS should be the ones disciplining its members but then I thought about it, in reality APOS just exists to administer the guiding industry. The judicial system (a judge who presumably knows the laws and fines that can be administered) are the ones responsible for administering justice/discipline. If APOS was to also pass judgment/fines the guy being charged essentially would get double punished. Personally I would rather have the court system apply the law to the perpetrators than an industry organization. Whether the punishments are deemed harsh enough or not is another issue. As far as I'm concerned he screwed up, he has gone through the court system, paid his debt to society as the legal system saw fit and its a done deal. Time to move on.

[Sooner]

I get that people think APOS should be the ones disciplining its members but then I thought about it, in reality APOS just exists to administer the guiding industry. The judicial system (a judge who presumably knows the laws and fines that can be administered) are the ones responsible for administering justice/discipline. If APOS was to also pass judgment/fines the guy being charged essentially would get double punished. Personally I would rather have the court system apply the law to the perpetrators than an industry organization. Whether the punishments are deemed harsh enough or not is another issue. As far as I'm concerned he screwed up, he has gone through the court system, paid his debt to society as the legal system saw fit and its a done deal. Time to move on.

Agree 100 % on this.

I don't have a hate on for outfitters, I do shake my head at the organization that over see's them and what many see, myself included, is that they do not really police their own. Couple screw ups at work and you could be gone.

Does APOS have the power to strip outfitters of allocations and sell them off?

[elkhunter11]

I get that people think APOS should be the ones disciplining its members but then I thought about it, in reality APOS just exists to administer the guiding industry. The judicial system (a judge who presumably knows the laws and fines that can be administered) are the ones responsible for administering justice/discipline. If APOS was to also pass judgment/fines the guy being charged essentially would get double punished. Personally I would rather have the court system apply the law to the perpetrators than an industry organization. Whether the punishments are deemed harsh enough or not is another issue. As far as I'm concerned he screwed up, he has gone through the court system, paid his debt to society as the legal system saw fit and its a done deal. Time to move on.

And yet when I e-mailed AEP and the minister concerning this type of thing, the response was that they leave the discipline of APOS members to APOS. So the government refuses to deal with this, and APOS refuses to deal with this, so the violators are allowed to continue right on outfitting despite the fact that they have proven that they can't be trusted.

[58thecat]

Is there a threshold of allowable mistakes?

Exactly....how many strikes do,you get?

[crazy_davey]

In reality he actually is a friendly guy and a skilled hunter / guide. Obviously the man has made mistakes in the past. I'm glad to see that he's owning it 👍

The way some of the hyenas attack and berate the guy is sickening though. It seems that every time an Alberta Outfitter is mentioned around here it sure gets these losers worked up.

People make mistakes. Grow up.

Come on guys, he's a super swell fella, his buddy says so :sHa_sarcasticlol:

You grow up!

[walking buffalo]

I get that people think APOS should be the ones disciplining its members but then I thought about it, in reality APOS just exists to administer the guiding industry. The judicial system (a judge who presumably knows the laws and fines that can be administered) are the ones responsible for administering justice/discipline. If APOS was to also pass judgment/fines the guy being charged essentially would get double punished. Personally I would rather have the court system apply the law to the perpetrators than an industry organization. Whether the punishments are deemed harsh enough or not is another issue. As far as I'm concerned he screwed up, he has gone through the court system, paid his debt to society as the legal system saw fit and its a done deal. Time to move on.

"In reality" is the problem.

In reality, APOS IS responsible to enforce a code of ethics and standards, and in reality they rarely do.

APOS signed an the agreement with the government as a Delegated Administrative Organization (DAO) where they are obligated to administer a rule of conduct including discipline outside and in addition of the judicial process. This is why Elkhunter11 received the response he did.

This type of agreement is the norm for "Professional" organizations, doctors, lawyers, hockey players. What is not the norm is how APOS refuses to initiate a consistent and responsible action against members who break the rules.



From the APOS website, Ethics and Standards webpage.

"All violations of the APOS Code of Ethics may be subject to a penalty ranging from letters of reprimand, to fines, to temporary or permanent forfeiture of allocations, to the suspension or loss of an outfitter guide permit and/or guide designation."

[Torkdiesel]

I was also surprised at the length of the post. Hopefully this is all behind him now. Ya flame away folks. Say what you want about him having to do it. it's well written and one can only hope he is sincere.

If this was the extent of his mistakes people would likely be willing to forgive and forget.
But let's not forget why he was charged with this and convicted. He was on suspension for 6 years for trafficking wildlife. And although he only plead guilty to two counts he was charged with selling 170 dead heads and got away with all those charges. All the proceeds of crime were kept and paid for the allocations he now holds.
The judge said when he sentenced him that if he had a choice he would ban him from having anything to do with hunting/outfitting for life. That wasn't because he made a mistake and sold two deer without a permit !

A better question is who has found 170 dead heads over a span of a few years worth selling ? Or better yet, how many of those mule deer and whitetail were shot and left with the heads cut off ?

[boah]

Here’s a quote from the swell fellow."Mr. Shmyr states 'the wildlife laws are being broken all the time and the chances of getting caught are so remote' ... Mr. Shmyr then states 'there are only two officers in the Spirit River area - the area's so big, good luck catching anybody,'" said Golden.

"'They have to see you do it. If I get charged, prove it man. See me in court.'"

[mgvande]

It was just an honest mistake.

Just like this one.
http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2015/12/23/spirit-river-outfitter-fined

Or this one

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2009/12/11/hefty-fine-for-illegal-trafficking-in-antlers

He is really a nice guy

http://www.prrecordgazette.com/2004/03/23/spirit-river-hockey-player-convicted-of-assault

It's a shmear campaign!

[gman1978]

[QUOTE=Torkdiesel;3657472]If this was the extent of his mistakes people would likely be willing to forgive and forget.
But let's not forget why he was charged with this and convicted. He was on suspension for 6 years for trafficking wildlife. And although he only plead guilty to two counts he was charged with selling 170 dead heads and got away with all those charges. All the proceeds of crime were kept and paid for the allocations he now holds.
The judge said when he sentenced him that if he had a choice he would ban him from having anything to do with hunting/outfitting for life. That wasn't because he made a mistake and sold two deer without a permit !

A better question is who has found 170 dead heads over a span of a few years worth selling ? Or better yet, how many of those mule deer and whitetail were shot and left with the heads cut off ?[/QUOT



He sold a 170 dead heads!!!!!!That unbelievable. Who is he selling them too I wonder??

[Torkdiesel]

I get that people think APOS should be the ones disciplining its members but then I thought about it, in reality APOS just exists to administer the guiding industry. The judicial system (a judge who presumably knows the laws and fines that can be administered) are the ones responsible for administering justice/discipline. If APOS was to also pass judgment/fines the guy being charged essentially would get double punished. Personally I would rather have the court system apply the law to the perpetrators than an industry organization. Whether the punishments are deemed harsh enough or not is another issue. As far as I'm concerned he screwed up, he has gone through the court system, paid his debt to society as the legal system saw fit and its a done deal. Time to move on.

But APOS does administer fines to its members, or at least they did at one point when I a member. After receiving a conviction you had to go before the ethics committee (if I remember correctly) and they reviewed the incident. Then depending on the severity of the offence, they assessed a "course of action" (fine)
The courts don't have the power to pull allocations it would seem, they can suspend guiding/outfitting privileges, but only APOS appears to have the power to pull allocations.
I would like to see the government have control of the licensing like BC does, the bad apples seem to disappear very quickly

[Torkdiesel]

[/QUOTE]

He sold a 170 dead heads!!!!!!That unbelievable. Who is he selling them too I wonder??[/QUOTE]

He was selling them on EBay. I imagine they were going all over Canada and the U.S.

[spellswrong]

I think its great that he was man enough to adhere to court orders after being caught and post an apology online.

[bobalong]

One conviction is a mistake, by the time you reach three separate incidents totaling five convictions under the wildlife act, you have become a seasoned poacher, who obviously does not care about the regulations.

And what is just as bad or worse are the losers who defend him.

[elkhunter11]

I think its great that he was man enough to adhere to court orders after being caught and post an apology online.

Did you read the news release? Posting about his convictions on Facebook was part of his sentence. He didn't come up with the idea on his own because he felt remorse.

[wildwoods]

And what is just as bad or worse are the losers who defend him.

I don't see anyone defending his actions. They are belligerent and downright wrong. It's despicable and ignorant behaviour that need a heart change. I'm just sincerely hoping he finds that change.

[crazy_davey]

I don't see anyone defending his actions. They are belligerent and downright wrong. It's despicable and ignorant behaviour that need a heart change. I'm just sincerely hoping he finds that change.

Have you read this thread from start to the end and had a look at the links attached?

Do you really think he is going to change? This is not one isolated incedent.

You don't see anyone defending his actions? Read the thread again.

[Wolftrapper]

What a loser. He should be out of business as an Outfitter by now.

[Ultimate Predator]

Hes a piece of garbage period!

[Team Anzac]

I think its great that he was man enough to adhere to court orders after being caught and post an apology online.

He's spineless, yes he posted on his FB page regarding his criminal charges. But he's also taking down all the negative comments that don't work in his favour. His bleeding heart mother was right there condoning his actions, and clients understanding that you make mistakes when afield and that should be forgiven.

[Newview01]

So if can't hunt in the Yukon, as he allowed to hunt anywhere else in Canada? He stated himself that if one has their license suspended in one area it carries over to another.

[Norwest Alta]

If this was the extent of his mistakes people would likely be willing to forgive and forget.
But let's not forget why he was charged with this and convicted. He was on suspension for 6 years for trafficking wildlife. And although he only plead guilty to two counts he was charged with selling 170 dead heads and got away with all those charges. All the proceeds of crime were kept and paid for the allocations he now holds.
The judge said when he sentenced him that if he had a choice he would ban him from having anything to do with hunting/outfitting for life. That wasn't because he made a mistake and sold two deer without a permit !

A better question is who has found 170 dead heads over a span of a few years worth selling ? Or better yet, how many of those mule deer and whitetail were shot and left with the heads cut off ?

This is interesting. 8 years or so (my time frame might be a little off) we were finding dead animals around my area with the heads cut off. Some of it was done at night. Can't say for sure it was him but if the shoe fits. I think around then he might of been guiding for a local outfitter.

[Torkdiesel]

This is interesting. 8 years or so (my time frame might be a little off) we were finding dead animals around my area with the heads cut off. Some of it was done at night. Can't say for sure it was him but if the shoe fits. I think around then he might of been guiding for a local outfitter.

I wouldn't be surprised at all NW, at the time he would have been running around out here for Byron T.

One thing I could never figure out is why F&W didn't go after his newly purchased allocations with proceeds of a crime ?

Or maybe that's why he took the plea on the two charges so the proceeds from other 150 plus wouldn't be touchable?

[spellswrong]

Did you read the news release? Posting about his convictions on Facebook was part of his sentence. He didn't come up with the idea on his own because he felt remorse.

Yeah that's what I was getting at.

[The Spruce]

Ha was just trolling His page....He has shot a lot of wolves (with snare marks on them). 1 legit picture of of 2 wolves together that look shot. The others are all clearly snared. I wonder if He is a trapper? Or just poses with a friends catch? Even goes on to say how the 22-250 took the one big "frozen" beast down. I guess you can still shoot them when the are dead and frozen in a snare.

Spruce

[Norwest Alta]

I wouldn't be surprised at all NW, at the time he would have been running around out here for Byron T.

One thing I could never figure out is why F&W didn't go after his newly purchased allocations with proceeds of a crime ?

Or maybe that's why he took the plea on the two charges so the proceeds from other 150 plus wouldn't be touchable?

The time frame sure fits. The rumour at the time when this was happening was that someone in bc was trading heads for dope. Seems to me that they/him? were pretty brave at the time. Shooting within a couple hundred yards of the neighbors house. There was Moose, mule deer and whitetail that were just left in the field. Some still had their heads on.