View Full Version : What a shame our dear Cadomin sheep herd have become
4 days and 2 trips of hunting around the mine site. 50+km of hiking. 0 sightings of any sheep off the mine.
Saw maybe a total of 30 rams on the mine in those 4 days. 50-65 ewes on the mine.
Wolf sightings both times and numerous tracks.
Tons of Elk!
When a guy can sit on top of the mountain overlooking a huge area of the mine and see only 15-20 rams then something is wrong.
I have noticed this place on a dowward spiral the last 10 years.
Pretty sad when you can drive through the place and not see more than a handful of rams and you used to see piles of them and absolute monsters.
Not sure what has changed but it sure don't look good.
I enjoyed my time there. Hiked hard and really loved the mountains in the area.
bigwolf
10-26-2017, 07:02 PM
That seems to be the common expression amount hunters now -More claws than hooves, across the province.
I can't speak for sheep but I sure notice the moose and deer are way down in my area. Last time I went out i left my truck for only 2 hours and found 2 moose killed by cougar and upon returning, fresh wolf tracks all around my truck. I'm sure every Hunter has multiple experiences like that, unfortunately...
The only positive I can say is iv seen more does with twin and triplet fawns than ever before. Hopefully we get a couple more mild winters.
Slicktricker
10-26-2017, 07:52 PM
I know there is one less legal ram in there now :)
I know there is one less legal ram in there now :)
Pics or it didnt happen lol
walking buffalo
10-26-2017, 10:04 PM
This was expected and predicted by many.
It would be unrealistic to expect nature to stand still.
Maybe it's time to lobby Phillips for a new coal mine? ;)
1bowhunter12
10-26-2017, 10:14 PM
Maybe when the highvale mine shuts down they can bring some in and we willl have some prairie rams 👌lol
This was expected and predicted by many.
It would be unrealistic to expect nature to stand still.
Maybe it's time to lobby Phillips for a new coal mine? ;)
You are right! it was predicted but there were ways to help so it wouldn't be the way it is. Why can't we find ways to do predator control around these areas? They at least could allow one cat guy to be able to access the mine to kill some cats off it. A little pressure on the local trappers or some incentive to kill those wolves off a bit. I don't beleive areas close by have an issue. There are sheep in areas close to there that are doing pretty good.
buck403
10-27-2017, 02:11 AM
Doesn't help that they transported a bunch to the states a few years ago too.
wbshunt
10-27-2017, 05:58 AM
I agree predators across the province right now are a problem. Nothing gets my blood boiling more than some one who is anti hunting and they judge you for killing a predator and they just have no clue.
Torkdiesel
10-27-2017, 08:42 AM
You are right! it was predicted but there were ways to help so it wouldn't be the way it is. Why can't we find ways to do predator control around these areas? They at least could allow one cat guy to be able to access the mine to kill some cats off it. A little pressure on the local trappers or some incentive to kill those wolves off a bit. I don't beleive areas close by have an issue. There are sheep in areas close to there that are doing pretty good.
Cadomin is an artificial environment with an unusually high number of ungulates. Any biologist with half a clue should have realized this would support and attract an unusually high number of predators. Thinking the usual predator control methods would work is a joke. Low cougar quota with very little access is a bad combo when trying to reduce numbers.
Hiring a professional wolf trapper to work with the RFMA holder in the area would also go a long way. Or roll out a poisoning program to knock the numbers way back.
What this province and country need is some "Trump style politics" to get all this stuff on track before it's too late and all they can say is "oops"
And who's the one in charge of such a thing Tork?
I would say the fish cops would have a pretty good say in what is needed or not? Why don't we hear their voice at all in matters such as this? Are they not part of taking care of the resource?
1899b
10-27-2017, 10:12 AM
Hope not the fish cops that were adamant that i was fishing a closed stream one year (the Embarass not too far from Cadomin) I lose faith when i have to school the people that should be in the know before they open there mouth. I actually posted about that fiasco here back when it happened. Our resident Biologist at Coal valley Mine (same area as Cadomin pretty much) used to work closely with the govt in regards to the Grizzly population on the mine and he was adamant back then (2003 - 2008) that there should be a limited grizz hunt as we were inundated with them and noticed populations rising back then. Everything seems to fall on deaf ears...
243 wild cat
10-27-2017, 10:19 AM
Doesn't help that they transported a bunch to the states a few years ago too.
X2 I agree predators across the province right now are a problem too. Nothing gets my blood boiling more with transpored sheep to the USA and we don't do it in are area. :sign0176:
mindoutside
10-27-2017, 10:24 AM
Here I was, thinking that I the only one... to go and see k-9/cat tracks everywhere go!
Interesting you see lots of elk though, Want to pm me some leads?:test:
Bushrat
10-27-2017, 10:43 AM
And who's the one in charge of such a thing Tork?
I would say the fish cops would have a pretty good say in what is needed or not? Why don't we hear their voice at all in matters such as this? Are they not part of taking care of the resource?
Fish cops might know what needs to be done but are not listened to and have no more say than you or I do. Biologists might have a little more say. In reality all their hands are tied, nowadays many of them are biased against outdoorsmen or hunter/fishermen users. They are directed by Bureaucrats who influence policy that follows politically correct agendas that rarely reflect what really needs to be done.
Advent721
10-27-2017, 10:45 AM
Hope not the fish cops that were adamant that i was fishing a closed stream one year (the Embarass not too far from Cadomin) I lose faith when i have to school the people that should be in the know before they open there mouth. I actually posted about that fiasco here back when it happened. Our resident Biologist at Coal valley Mine (same area as Cadomin pretty much) used to work closely with the govt in regards to the Grizzly population on the mine and he was adamant back then (2003 - 2008) that there should be a limited grizz hunt as we were inundated with them and noticed populations rising back then. Everything seems to fall on deaf ears...
I helped volunteer this late summer on a mine boundary marking project at Cadomin. The area biologist was there as well. She made mention that Cadomin has the highest concentration of grizzly in the province. 13 known and identified grizzlies in the area. And of course high cat and wolf population as well. I’ve never seen so much wolf scat like I did at the mine.
Fish cops might know what needs to be done but are not listened to and have no more say than you or I do. Biologists might have a little more say. In reality all their hands are tied, nowadays many of them are biased against outdoorsmen or hunter/fishermen users. They are directed by Bureaucrats who influence policy that follows politically correct agendas that rarely reflect what really needs to be done.
I agree fully. I have no respect for Bio's at all in this province!
There is a ton they can do to protect wildlife and at little or no cost at all.
I helped volunteer this late summer on a mine boundary marking project at Cadomin. The area biologist was there as well. She made mention that Cadomin has the highest concentration of grizzly in the province. 13 known and identified grizzlies in the area. And of course high cat and wolf population as well. I’ve never seen so much wolf scat like I did at the mine.
Didn't look like you guys did much work then i'm sorry to say. Everywhere I hiked I was wondering where the boundary was half the time and if I was allowed to go in some spots. Without a GPS and the coordinates you could easily whack something you are not supposed to. Even the main trails through the mine were not well marked.
I was really dissapointed to see how the area was marked. The biggest signs I saw were the ones telling me I was under video and I was going to get thrown in jail for 2 years and a $100 000 fine......
dfrobert
10-27-2017, 12:38 PM
Instead of belly aching here when things are not up to your standards why don't you get out there and volunteer some of your time, or get in touch with our environment minister, local biologists, wild sheep foundation, etc. Is venting on social media and the AO forum gonna help the cadomin sheep issues?
Your whining screams entitlement.
Torkdiesel
10-27-2017, 12:42 PM
And who's the one in charge of such a thing Tork?
I would say the fish cops would have a pretty good say in what is needed or not? Why don't we hear their voice at all in matters such as this? Are they not part of taking care of the resource?
The Bios are in charge, well at least that's the frontline of it anyway. In reality the Bios report to the head Bio, then there's assistant directors, directors, ministers and when you get to that level they're far more concerned about votes and keeping their jobs then actually doing what's best.
That's why I made the mention of the "Trump like politics"
If we had somebody in place that would simply do the right thing, instead of pandering to the loudest Liberal cry baby jumping up and down on social media, or scared to death about losing votes we would be way better off.
Unfortunately in this day and age with our broken political system we're absolutely screwed.
walking buffalo
10-27-2017, 12:57 PM
A couple of comments.
The transplants from Cadomin were a good thing for the herd.
Part of the problem here was overpopulation. The sheep needed to go.
Relocating them to other areas of the Alberta Rockies is not on the table mainly due to a desire to maintain genetic integrity of the local sub-populations, and the potential risk of disease transfer. Additionally, there really was no place in the mountains without sheep to put these excess Cadomin animals. The Alberta population of Bighorns is at an all time high.
About the only local option is a Prairie location, which have been so far been blocked by disease concerns with livestock, particularly paratuburculosis and cattle.
Lets remember that Cadomin is still an active biological study project. Part of the plan is to see how sheep do in these reclaimed sites. This includes the bad times.
Perhaps what needs to change is Our perspective.
Maybe we shouldn't desire such a zoo for our sheep.
dshaw
10-27-2017, 01:03 PM
The Bios are in charge, well at least that's the frontline of it anyway. In reality the Bios report to the head Bio, then there's assistant directors, directors, ministers and when you get to that level they're far more concerned about votes and keeping their jobs then actually doing what's best.
That's why I made the mention of the "Trump like politics"
If we had somebody in place that would simply do the right thing, instead of pandering to the loudest Liberal cry baby jumping up and down on social media, or scared to death about losing votes we would be way better off.
Unfortunately in this day and age with our broken political system we're absolutely screwed.
x2! its the same with any conservation topic. its all about keeping a job and votes.
dave99
10-27-2017, 01:48 PM
I saw in excess of 100 sheep each time I ventured across the mine this fall to attempt to fill my ewe draw and then later on look for rams. On every trip except my most recent I found large numbers of sheep on the mine, and small pockets of them off-mine. On this last trip I failed to turn up any sheep off-mine.
Like Nube, I agree that the place is teeming with elk. Herds were always visible on the mine.
I live in Jasper, so I'm used to seeing lots of
elk. The density of elk on the mine is something I've never seen before. Absolutely incredible.
Unlike other members, this was my first year spending time in Cadomin, so I have no basis for comparison. My assessment is lots of sheep, tons of elk, and high predator density. I did see a number of great rams, but none of the Cadomin rams that we've come to expect when looking at the record books.
Here's a ewe that was caught way too far from the safe zone. It now resides in my freezer.
I know of a couple nice guys who also filled their 438C ewe draw, and have heard of at least one ram being taken as well.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171027/9c54db3ce87e30fd794ee4388d05150b.jpg
My assessment of Cadomin after having spent time there is that I'd rather hunt sheep elsewhere, although the convenience of easy access and lots of animals makes for a fun hunt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A couple of comments.
The transplants from Cadomin were a good thing for the herd.
Part of the problem here was overpopulation. The sheep needed to go.
Relocating them to other areas of the Alberta Rockies is not on the table mainly due to a desire to maintain genetic integrity of the local sub-populations, and the potential risk of disease transfer. Additionally, there really was no place in the mountains without sheep to put these excess Cadomin animals. The Alberta population of Bighorns is at an all time high.
About the only local option is a Prairie location, which have been so far been blocked by disease concerns with livestock, particularly paratuburculosis and cattle.
Lets remember that Cadomin is still an active biological study project. Part of the plan is to see how sheep do in these reclaimed sites. This includes the bad times.
Perhaps what needs to change is Our perspective.
Maybe we shouldn't desire such a zoo for our sheep.
I agree with a lot of this but even if we had cut things to half of what they had at their prime and kept it stable it would be good. I would love to know numbers of animals on the mine from 20 years ago till today. I bet we are sitting at less than half the sheep than we had at the prime
Also if we did have a surplus instead of shooting them and handing out a pile of ewe tags would we not have been better off transplanting them into some areas in the province? They did it with Elk out of Elk island for years and I don't see where that has hurt anything. If anything maybe that is the reason we have so many elk these days? Instead they start thinking of getting Native people to go into National parks and shooting them instead of sending them to other parts of the province.
In the end it is what it is. This province is going downhill at a rapid pace and I don't see any comeback in my lifetime with the way politics is going. Tork has it nailed down pretty good in his thoughts on it.
What a sad state of affairs it is here and nobody has the balls to get it back on track because there is too much red tape and politics involved.
CF8889
10-27-2017, 04:33 PM
The answer for why we didn't transplant them to different areas of Alberta is in the text you quoted ;)
Norwest Alta
10-27-2017, 07:13 PM
I agree with a lot of this but even if we had cut things to half of what they had at their prime and kept it stable it would be good. I would love to know numbers of animals on the mine from 20 years ago till today. I bet we are sitting at less than half the sheep than we had at the prime
Also if we did have a surplus instead of shooting them and handing out a pile of ewe tags would we not have been better off transplanting them into some areas in the province? They did it with Elk out of Elk island for years and I don't see where that has hurt anything. If anything maybe that is the reason we have so many elk these days? Instead they start thinking of getting Native people to go into National parks and shooting them instead of sending them to other parts of the province.
In the end it is what it is. This province is going downhill at a rapid pace and I don't see any comeback in my lifetime with the way politics is going. Tork has it nailed down pretty good in his thoughts on it.
What a sad state of affairs it is here and nobody has the balls to get it back on track because there is too much red tape and politics involved.
Unfortunately that’s the way it is. If you want change have you by chance bought a membership in the upc or any other political party. Maybe be come active in a political party and help write policy from the inside rather than bitch whine and moan on the outside like many of us do.
Well some might take this thread as a bitch thread. It wasn't my intent. I am more saddened about what is going on just like so many others on here about other issues going on with our wildlife in Alberta. I am sharing my voice more so about awareness than anything. Take it whatever way you want.
As for my success for hunting there I could care less. The hunt was more so for my daughter than myself but due to issues she couldnt join me. I have had a few ewe draws and never shot one. Not sure if I ever will but time will tell I guess. I took my bow on the hunt so that tells you where my thoughts were on success or not....
As for joining one group or another lol There are so many groups political or hunting wise and you can never tell what the hidden ajenda is of them all and I never trust any of them. Typical Politics.
Norwest Alta
10-27-2017, 08:58 PM
Well some might take this thread as a bitch thread. It wasn't my intent. I am more saddened about what is going on just like so many others on here about other issues going on with our wildlife in Alberta. I am sharing my voice more so about awareness than anything. Take it whatever way you want.
As for my success for hunting there I could care less. The hunt was more so for my daughter than myself but due to issues she couldnt join me. I have had a few ewe draws and never shot one. Not sure if I ever will but time will tell I guess. I took my bow on the hunt so that tells you where my thoughts were on success or not....
As for joining one group or another lol There are so many groups political or hunting wise and you can never tell what the hidden ajenda is of them all and I never trust any of them. Typical Politics.
I think you’re reading what I posted wrong. What I’m trying to say is if you feel that strongly about changing things do something about it. Don’t sit on your hands like many of us do. Join and start changing the policies. Sitting and venting about will change nothing.
Advent721
10-27-2017, 10:18 PM
Didn't look like you guys did much work then i'm sorry to say. Everywhere I hiked I was wondering where the boundary was half the time and if I was allowed to go in some spots. Without a GPS and the coordinates you could easily whack something you are not supposed to. Even the main trails through the mine were not well marked.
I was really dissapointed to see how the area was marked. The biggest signs I saw were the ones telling me I was under video and I was going to get thrown in jail for 2 years and a $100 000 fine......
Well gee you're welcome. It's a well known fact that the boundaries aren't marked that clear. There's groups including the F&W that are trying to do something about it but it boils down to resources. Maybe if we had more than 12 volunteers we would have got more done. You do realize how big the boundaries run, it's a big undertaking the Edson Wild Sheep Foundation spearheaded. And not a project that can be done in a couple weekends. I didn't see u out lending a hand The requests for volunteers were all over social media ( sheep hunting FB page etc). There's places on line that you can download all the boundary coordinates and load them in your gps too and maps available right in town for free. . F&W in Hinton can also point you in the right direction.
Salavee
10-28-2017, 11:18 AM
Fish cops might know what needs to be done but are not listened to and have no more say than you or I do. Biologists might have a little more say. In reality all their hands are tied, nowadays many of them are biased against outdoorsmen or hunter/fishermen users. They are directed by Bureaucrats who influence policy that follows politically correct agendas that rarely reflect what really needs to be done.
So True .
Don't put all the blame on the CO's and Biologists in Alberta. In many cases their input from the field is ignored by the bureaucrats in the upstairs office .. who are seldom oriented toward Wildlife and the Outdoors in general. We lose a lot of good bio's to other jurisdictions who actually value and utilize their input.
Speckle55
10-28-2017, 01:28 PM
every picture tells a story
Food for Thought
David:)
Well gee you're welcome. It's a well known fact that the boundaries aren't marked that clear. There's groups including the F&W that are trying to do something about it but it boils down to resources. Maybe if we had more than 12 volunteers we would have got more done. You do realize how big the boundaries run, it's a big undertaking the Edson Wild Sheep Foundation spearheaded. And not a project that can be done in a couple weekends. I didn't see u out lending a hand The requests for volunteers were all over social media ( sheep hunting FB page etc). There's places on line that you can download all the boundary coordinates and load them in your gps too and maps available right in town for free. . F&W in Hinton can also point you in the right direction.
Well it sounds like you took it as a shot at you and it's not. Glad you helped out but honestly I did not see one new sign and the area is poorly marked. I would bet most people would say the same thing. Lots of work is needed.
Problem is good luck getting volunteers.
That brings an interesting question to mind and that is Who really is in charge of marking that and are they really doing their job?
Is it the job of the average Albertan to volunteer his or her time to mark the boundary?
For a guy like me with no GPS i found it hard to follow the line as it was a zig zag into the craziest places in some areas. You then would think you were clear and then another few hundred yards it seemed they designed a new place to put signs which made you wonder why the last ones were placed where they were..
It also seemed that some people jut went their own way making the trail off a designated route..
It will really be interesting when the mine is shut down I am sure
every picture tells a story
Food for Thought
David:)
Good Pic. That was one of the rams I saw there last week. Tight curled guy
With all these supposed predator kills are you guys finding a lot of kill sites, skulls and so on?
Not fresh but yes. Also you can take a good look at the piles of wolf scat and see around the mine it's not moose but sheep from what I saw
stevens
10-29-2017, 04:00 AM
Instead of belly aching here when things are not up to your standards why don't you get out there and volunteer some of your time, or get in touch with our environment minister, local biologists, wild sheep foundation, etc. Is venting on social media and the AO forum gonna help the cadomin sheep issues?
Your whining screams entitlement.
x2
ksteed17
10-29-2017, 07:49 AM
Well it sounds like you took it as a shot at you and it's not. Glad you helped out but honestly I did not see one new sign and the area is poorly marked. I would bet most people would say the same thing. Lots of work is needed.
Problem is good luck getting volunteers.
That brings an interesting question to mind and that is Who really is in charge of marking that and are they really doing their job?
Is it the job of the average Albertan to volunteer his or her time to mark the boundary?
For a guy like me with no GPS i found it hard to follow the line as it was a zig zag into the craziest places in some areas. You then would think you were clear and then another few hundred yards it seemed they designed a new place to put signs which made you wonder why the last ones were placed where they were..
It also seemed that some people jut went their own way making the trail off a designated route..
It will really be interesting when the mine is shut down I am sure
What do you want? A rail fence for miles showing exactly the boundary? Come on! Buy a cheap gps and download the boundary it’s not that hard. If you spent more then 1 day hiking around there you can learn the boundary pretty quick. I didn’t volunteer as I was busy those days but I have friends who did.
ram crazy
10-29-2017, 10:02 AM
Mother Nature can be a cruel b!tch. There is big problems in WMU 400 as well, but nobody wants to admit it. There is a big lack of rams, sheep with diarrhea, and sheep coughing. Pre 2013 the number were good, then the deep snows and the flood of 2013 really changed something. Now with the fire in Waterton this year. Everyone thought that there were going to be sheep everywhere outside the park. There has been a lot of disappointed hunters this year as the sheep haven't move like everyone thought. I think there was a huge loss of sheep that never got out of the fire zone, so Cadomin isn't the only area with problems!
Mother Nature can be a cruel b!tch. There is big problems in WMU 400 as well, but nobody wants to admit it. There is a big lack of rams, sheep with diarrhea, and sheep coughing. Pre 2013 the number were good, then the deep snows and the flood of 2013 really changed something. Now with the fire in Waterton this year. Everyone thought that there were going to be sheep everywhere outside the park. There has been a lot of disappointed hunters this year as the sheep haven't move like everyone thought. I think there was a huge loss of sheep that never got out of the fire zone, so Cadomin isn't the only area with problems!
Yup but if you say anything or bring it to light to anyone you are just bitching!
Advent721
10-29-2017, 11:22 AM
What do you want? A rail fence for miles showing exactly the boundary? Come on! Buy a cheap gps and download the boundary it’s not that hard. If you spent more then 1 day hiking around there you can learn the boundary pretty quick. I didn’t volunteer as I was busy those days but I have friends who did.
X2 . I guess some people want everything spoon fed. Yes it could be marked better however one can figure it out if they really wanted. And if you have plans of hunting the area just like anywhere else it's up to you to do your due diligence to ensure you're legal.
The unfortunate thing with the lack of clear markers is that according to F&W approx 25% of Cadomin sheep have been shot illegally over the years. Either by accident due to someone not knowing or misjudging the boundaries or potentially on purpose so to speak due to the perceived gray area on the borders and pushing those limits. . just stating what I've been told by the local F&W.
MooseRiverTrapper
10-29-2017, 11:44 AM
What do you want? A rail fence for miles showing exactly the boundary? Come on! Buy a cheap gps and download the boundary it’s not that hard. If you spent more then 1 day hiking around there you can learn the boundary pretty quick. I didn’t volunteer as I was busy those days but I have friends who did.
Can you simply download the boundaries? I looked into it and coordinates had to be converted individually.
ram crazy
10-29-2017, 01:08 PM
Yup but if you say anything or bring it to light to anyone you are just bitching!
Maybe the super sheep hunter with one ram has the answers!
ksteed17
10-29-2017, 02:25 PM
Maybe the super sheep hunter with one ram has the answers!
Hahahahaha oh man this never gets old. Never said I disagree with what he’s saying about cadomin. I actually agree, having hunted it and killing a ram there with a buddy in 2013 and seeing it now. But crapping on guys for trying to make it a better experience but not having time and materials to do it as perfect as he’d like rubs me the wrong way. Always look forward to your jumping to conclusions tho. Keep it up 👍
LKILR
10-29-2017, 02:56 PM
I just spent five full days on horseback in 402,404,406 and ive noticed a decrease in numbers compared to 10 years ago. People got to realize that Mother Nature holds the cards and not a whole lot can be done by man other than regulate hunting harvest. We found one dead 6.5 year old
X2 . I guess some people want everything spoon fed. Yes it could be marked better however one can figure it out if they really wanted. And if you have plans of hunting the area just like anywhere else it's up to you to do your due diligence to ensure you're legal.
The unfortunate thing with the lack of clear markers is that according to F&W approx 25% of Cadomin sheep have been shot illegally over the years. Either by accident due to someone not knowing or misjudging the boundaries or potentially on purpose so to speak due to the perceived gray area on the borders and pushing those limits. . just stating what I've been told by the local F&W.
Never did I want anything spoon fed.
You just stated yourself that yes it could be marked better?
You also just stated %25 of the rams are shot illegally and you want to tel me I am complaining about the boundary for no reason?
Sorry you guys are getting bent about what I think about the way it is marked but with what comments you just told me then what reason don't I have a reason to be concerned.
According the signage it's 2 years in jail and possible $100 000 fine but you think it's no big deal for it to not be marked better wow lol
Yes I appreciate all that volunteer to do the job but nobody has answered my question on who's responsibility it is to mark it and if it is at all????
Mr. Steed I never crapped on anyone for any work they did! I stated I did not see any recently done. So either half that boundary never got touched this year or I didn't see the right area. The signage is poor and that is a fact , no crapping on anyone. This is obviously stated with the commets he just made.
ram crazy
10-29-2017, 05:43 PM
Always look forward to your jumping to conclusions tho. Keep it up 👍
Who's jumping to conclusions? :character0110:
Advent721
10-29-2017, 07:25 PM
[QUOTE=nube;3654639]Never did I want anything spoon fed.
You just stated yourself that yes it could be marked better?
You also just stated %25 of the rams are shot illegally and you want to tel me I am complaining about the boundary for no reason?
Sorry you guys are getting bent about what I think about the way it is marked but with what comments you just told me then what reason don't I have a reason to be concerned.
According the signage it's 2 years in jail and possible $100 000 fine but you think it's no big deal for it to not be marked better wow lol
Yes I appreciate all that volunteer to do the job but nobody has answered my question on who's responsibility it is to mark it and if it is at all????
Mr. Steed I never crapped on anyone for any work they did! I stated I did not see any recently done. So either half that boundary never got touched this year or I didn't see the right area. The signage is poor and that is a fact , no crapping on anyone. This is obviously stated with the commets he just made
Kinda sounds like you want it laid out crystal clear for you. You keep focusing on the lack of new markers and not the resources available to firgure out the boundaries Sure it could be marked better, HOWEVER it’s not like there’s no way to figure the borders out. I believe the project was lead by F&W so I’d assume they are possibly the responsible party? Maybe if they had a bigger budget there’d be more of a focus on things like this. But if you do your homework, but a gps, download the coordinates you can figure it all out pretty clear for yourself. To me it falls under scouting - getting to know the area. Maybe they’ll be more volunteers out next summer to carry on with the marking. Anyway that’s all I’m gonna say.
stevens
10-29-2017, 09:23 PM
Never did I want anything spoon fed.
You just stated yourself that yes it could be marked better?
You also just stated %25 of the rams are shot illegally and you want to tel me I am complaining about the boundary for no reason?
Sorry you guys are getting bent about what I think about the way it is marked but with what comments you just told me then what reason don't I have a reason to be concerned.
According the signage it's 2 years in jail and possible $100 000 fine but you think it's no big deal for it to not be marked better wow lol
Yes I appreciate all that volunteer to do the job but nobody has answered my question on who's responsibility it is to mark it and if it is at all????
Mr. Steed I never crapped on anyone for any work they did! I stated I did not see any recently done. So either half that boundary never got touched this year or I didn't see the right area. The signage is poor and that is a fact , no crapping on anyone. This is obviously stated with the commets he just made.
So whats your point???? I guess you have a good off season project to mark the boundary as you see fit. You come on here and talk about how much stuff sucks and then more of how much stuff sucks. Why did you even go sheep hunting sounds like it was just awful. I never want to go to that awful mine sounds awful.
Of course I want it crystal clear if I could get put in jail for 2 years and like you say %25 of sheep there are shot illegally!
I don't have an issue at all hunting the Banff National park boundary! It is marked pretty clearly in the areas I know.
You mention budget and yes that is important but with the downhill spiral of the sheep a lot of money is lost to fund projects.
We used to get close to half a mill for our ministers tag didn't we?
Montana is doing that now and still.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/jun/13/record-480k-bid-bighorn-sheep-tag-rest-story/
Here is what the past little while has given.
PAST AUCTION PRICES:
2011 - $195,000
2012 - $150,000
2013 - $150,000
2014 - $145,000
2015 - $125,000
A 5% buyers premium will be added to the final bid price of this special permit/tag (unless prohibited by statute.) Proceeds will be dedicated to WSF Conservation Initiatives. If the winner of this item refuses to pay the premiums required, the item shall be offered to the next highest bidder for the price he/she bid.
I am not sure where all the money goes but I would bet a lot goes back into the sheep herd. At least it should be. I bet if you put in $10K a year even towards Predator control you would see a difference.
How much would it cost to pay a bunch of college students to put signs up?
A little money to understand the vegetation in the are and how it affects the sheep.
Even feed the sheep in times of bad winters.
But with the sheep the way they are now they are loosing hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Another way to make money is selling off the deadheads at auctions. Fish and Wildlife has lockers full of world class rams that people would buy in a heartbeat.
Money that could be circulated back into bettering the herd if it is possible. Maybe it's not but it's worth a try.
Another thing to think about is they have taken 368 sheep off the mine in years past to relocate to other areas and I believe mostly into the USA. Question I would ask is did we get paid? If so where did the money end up going? Did it get used to go back into helping sheep?
Just a few thoughts.
walking buffalo
10-29-2017, 10:14 PM
There is no way in Heck that the mine boundary should be so difficult to either mark or identify.
The simple answer is for areas of this PUBLIC LAND to be open for hunting.
Move the No Hunting boundary away from the cliffs.
Keep It Simple Stupid....
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Nube,
Many of us refuse to open Pandora's box.
Selling dead heads or selling live animals used in translocations is simply a place we do not want to go.
Dale , does BC not have the sale of dead heads found? I may be wrong but I think they do and if they do it would be interesting to know more about it.
I agree though there may be future issues if we went that route but it seems like a huge waste having something valuable like that and there is nothing done with them
deercamp
10-30-2017, 10:18 PM
has there ever been an alberta ram to record 18" bases? this ram was killed in the breaks recently and aged at 6.5 . Seems the next record is surely not many seasons away with rams like this being killed. 18 2/8' by 43" 208 green score
deercamp
11-02-2017, 07:11 AM
Just bringin back up to hear some thoughts
Bluedog
11-02-2017, 11:02 AM
Okay! That picture you posted of the big Montana Ram looks to be 7.5 years old JMO and not 6.5
Still an amazing Ram either way
Norwest Alta
11-02-2017, 08:40 PM
Just bringin back up to hear some thoughts
My thoughts are why are the wolves to blame? Don’t get me wrong I’m not a wolf lover by any means but the way some people talk about wolves this wolves that it’s funny that everything we like to hunt and eat isn’t extinct yet.
My thoughts are why are the wolves to blame? Don’t get me wrong I’m not a wolf lover by any means but the way some people talk about wolves this wolves that it’s funny that everything we like to hunt and eat isn’t extinct yet.
There are many issues as been mentioned in previous threads and posts. I don't think people can blame just the wolves but predator issues is a huge part of it.
There are many ways to be helping our sheep herd in Alberta and there is a lot not being done.
BC just O.Ked a few burns for sheep this next year. Glad to see they are on the right track in some areas or at least some small part
mgvande
11-02-2017, 11:57 PM
Okay! That picture you posted of the big Montana Ram looks to be 7.5 years old JMO and not 6.5
Still an amazing Ram either way
7.5. Yup
deercamp
11-03-2017, 07:36 AM
7.5. Yup
ya I'm just going off of what they plugged it at in montana. the guide wrote 6.5 in article, but regardless unbelievable for either age class. Our current record was 13 years old and still had bases almost 2" smaller than this ram half its age.
has there ever been an alberta ram to record 18" bases? this ram was killed in the breaks recently and aged at 6.5 . Seems the next record is surely not many seasons away with rams like this being killed. 18 2/8' by 43" 208 green score
Yes there have been 7 since the seventies 18+ but only one that made 18.25.
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