Wanting to Buy Trapline

[texwest]

Anyone have a trapline they are looking at selling or possibly leasing.

[wthby]

there was one in the bargain finder for wmu 510 that i seen a couple of days ago online. not sure if that helps

wthby

[Turney]

Drop me a PM I might be selling mine

[Rob Miskosky]

The one in the Bargain Finder is $65,000... what a joke! Have to catch a lot of beaver to pay for that, provided it didn't burn down in a forest fire.

[qbochar]

Turney:

You moving or something?

[baretrax]

I know a guy up around Wabasca that had one for sale. I can get you a phone number if you are interested. PM me if interested.

[Turney]

Why Qball you buying? When you coming out?

[HUNTNUT]

The one in the Bargain Finder is $65,000... what a joke! Have to catch a lot of beaver to pay for that, provided it didn't burn down in a forest fire



There was 1 in the Grande Praire paper before Christmas-the guy was asking over $100,000 for it.:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

[Rob Miskosky]

Worst part is idiots are paying that thinking they got a piece of recreation property. But that my friends, is about to all come crashing down...

[traplines]

Tell us Rob what do you mean by all of this is going to come crashing down?

[jrs]

"Worst part is idiots are paying that thinking they got a piece of recreation property. But that my friends, is about to all come crashing down... "

I'm interested as well. I came accross a "trapline" this year complete with heated 2 story cabin, deck, dock, corral, kentucky blue lawn greener than the one i have at home. No evidence of serious trapping, a few squirrel run doey's but thats it. I don't think it was being used primarily in winter or spring either. Are they planning a crackdown pretty soon?

[Rob Miskosky]

The entire trapping industry is being looked at real hard by not only the Trappers Association but government as well. Far too many traplines are owned for recreation purposes and are not trapped as was there intended purpose. That's what has brought about these ridiculous prices. Traplines are not worth $65,000 dollars... period. This is not the purchasing of land here, just the right to trap "public" land. A right that can be taken away.

When the Trapping in the 21st Century discussions are completed expect to see a bunch of non-trappers holding traplines suddenly going... ooops!

These are the guys - and believe me there are a lot of them - who have tarnished trapping in Alberta. But their day is coming.

[trapping]

What do you mean there day is coming. We just purchased a trapline . Spent every day off two weeks at christmas time trapping. Are you telling me that someone is going to take away? Or are you triing to scare people off that are not using theres? Here is an example of a guy that paid a ridiculous amount of moeny for his line. So instead of losing it , he hired two guys to trap it as junior partners, how will the prove that he is not trapping it? Concerned trapper

[huntinfishincampin]

guest
the trapping industry is trying to rid those that are only using the line for their "private" hunting lodge. Those that trap their line and keep detailed records as they are supposed to will be able to keep going as they are. those that do not will lose their line and it will go to someone else that will help the environment not keep it for their own "uses". trapping is about environmental stewardship.
hfc

[Rob Miskosky]

Guest, I'm glad to see you are trapping your line. What I'm talking about is exactly what huntinfishincampin said. But make no mistake, changes are coming and many may not like what they are... including you. There is far too much abuse taking place. Guys who aren't trappers own traplines and there is something definitely wrong with that when there are many "real" trappers who couldn't get a line unless they pay massive dollars... for what? It burns, it's done.

There are a ton of changes that could take place, including that traplines can not be sold, inherited or passed down; point per pelt system; reviews of harvest - don't meet it, you lose the line; cabins will have to meet size limitations; new cabins will be severly restricted; use of cabins will be restricted; unauthorized cabins will be removed; some RFMA's may be removed completely; and so on.

Many of these may come to fruitition, many might not. But trapping is in poor shape in Alberta right now because of abuse. When more money is paid out by industry in trapper compensation than brought in by trappers, there is a problem.

Abuse of traplines has to be, and will be stopped in the very near future. And I have to add, it's about time!

[trapping]

I do agree that there is abuse in the system. How can we correct it is the problem? I can not quit my job to go trapping. I would like too.
So where do we start. I enjoy trapping, but i also enjoy having enough room in my cabin to take my family. This year we could only do day trips if my family came with me. The cabin we stay in is very small, but we do have plans for a larger one. If we are going to teach new trappers i want to take the right people with me. So i need more room. Showing them a piece of paper that says i trapped a certain amount of fur, out a portion of my trapline usually can not hold someone interest. I could go on and on with points. If traplines were given or sold to trappers only how great that would be, because i do cosider myself one. Thanks

[texwest]

Turney: Wow, I really got people fired up on that question. I also think that too many people see it that they own a big chunk of recreation property. You say that you might get rid of yours?
I'm looking for one that I can take the boy out too and teach him something hopefully. He's a wildlife nut and I think he'd get a lot out of it. Where is it located?

[kelly]

The issue of trapline use/abuse goes much deeper than any comment I have read on this stream. Let's start with a government who does not fulfill the checks and balances - when was the last ime any of you saw a F&W officer or SRd officer at the cabin or out on the line with you. Thought so!
I have trapped most of my adult life and continue to do so on a good line I purchased from a fellow who also trapped and sold it due to other work commitments (couldn't do a good enough job so gave it to those who would). It has never been an issue of a hunting cabin for us but we do take alot of pride in protecting the areas we have. Unfortunately the cross over in hunting and trapping season makes it look like we are hunting from our cabins. Maybe Rob can ad a few articles on this to educate the hunters and other rec users who frequent our lines.
Buying and selling traplines is not a bad thing - for those of us who put in alot of effort, actually manage the lines, act as a watch dog for other activities out there, and mind the regulations - why not be able to reap some $$ when we are too old or physically unable to continue. The partner of the person I bought the line from passed away (old time trapper). His wife was pretty happy to get the $$$ as she was not left with much. Under the old system she would have received nothing.
If you want to improve things take on the issue of the numerous lines that are inactive (native or otherwise) and apply a use it or lose it process. The line next to me has not been trapped for over 25 years - nonsense!
The regs are in place to limit or manage trapping and traplines - perhaps someone should actually enforce it. As for cabins (number and size) we have guidelines and we need flexibility to place them where it makes sense and large enough to be functional. We are not hermits and there is nothing wrong with having comfortable cabins to effect long winter stays (often with family or partners). I have a friend who bought a 1 township line and spent over 60 nights on it the first winter in a trailer - in spring he erected a very nice cabin ehich due to the roof system looks way larger than it really is and has received too much critisizm over it (within guidelines as well). He set up his cabin to accomodate his handicap son so there are significant improvements but the lad and wife are out there with him. What is the issue - someone spouting off before knowing what the real facts are. I had this discussion with the F&W officer who didn't approve of the cabin (even though it was well within the guidelines) and thought we should have tiny cabins in the most rustic sense - I commented that perhaps he should use a horse and snowshoes and leave behind the cell phone, GPS, etc.
I agree the ATA should try to self control trappers by implementing some sort of activity rating - we need to make this happen and keep Government out of it for now - self control & policing/discipline should be the first option.

[MUDDSTER]

This should be moved to the General Discussion Forum Guys because it is a very interesting and informative read.... This is something I have never thought about before... But I will wait and see what will come out of it.:hat

[Rob Miskosky]

Kelly you are so correct. It is not trapper's like yourself who have caused this problem, unfortunately, the final decisions that will be made will probably affect you one way or another.

There isn't a trapline in the world worth $65,000, you know it and I know it. Simple economics prove this out time and time again. Unless of course your motive is something other than trapping... and that is a shame.

[bullgetter]

Correct me if I am wrong but from what I understand you can not actually sell a trapline. You must sell your "assets" such as traps, snowmobile, cabin and contents etc. The government can take the line away from you anytime as it is still crown land. Now I would gladly pay to have a line in my name but refuse to pay such outrageous prices for something I can not truthfully own.

[kelly]

Actually in the old system you sold improvements - now you actually are buying or selling the rights to the line under a trapline tenure (land/resource disposition) - remember you only have the tenure to trap fur bearers or those critters in the regulations (black bears). As for value from a financial standpoint there is no $$$ in trapping - it is a way of life/method of relaxation - no there is more work than play but it removes you from normal lifestyles and places you in a subsistence lifestyle should you really apply trapping principals and practices. One benefit is the fact you (if you choose to - check with your accountant) can right off slot of fuel, vehicle & ATV expenses, etc. And the real cost benefit is the value you place on being able to trap and the activities related to trapping where no other trapper can interfere.

[Rob Miskosky]

Yes you can right off your expenses based on your income from the trapline. I wrote off one of my ATVs just based on being a resident trapper. But again, traplines are not worth what they are being sold for... there are no guarantees and last time I checked insuring your cabin ain't going to happen.

And the real cost benefit is the value you place on being able to trap and the activities related to trapping where no other trapper can interfere.

Unless of course you have a Metis trapper for a neighbour.

[baretrax]

As a registered member, and a Metis, what is this comment supposed to mean.......
"Unless of course you have a Metis trapper for a neighbour"
?

[Rob Miskosky]

Sorry baretrax,

No offense intended. But in light of Kip Kelley's non-conviction for trapping on somebody elses trapline, kelly's statement that "no other trapper can interfere" doesn't hold a lot of weight.

[varmitr]

i just seen one for sale in the bargainfinder
16feb007 issue.
didnt think to much about it until i seen this post, I threw the paper out already, otherwise ida put the contact on here

[varmitr]

found it...page 17 section 1231
trap line in wmu510 25x30, 2bdr log cabin, 12x18 skinning shack, lite plant $55,000
902 2855 984 8962
is that alot???

[fat cat]

Rob: You just stated that you wrote off a quad as being a resident trapper. But you are totaly against anyone else benifiting from this. You are concerned about it being a recreational property. Have you checked the prices and quotes lately? Linx..3...avg. price$ 175. Fisher...6 Avg.price $100. ect.ect. Have you checked on a tank of fuel lately? Of course the traplines are going to recreational. Why would anyone do this for a living? Make each trapper provide a productive amount of hides each year. not a quota provided by someone who doesn't know, or a quess by someone who does. But by a assoc. that can regulate itself.

[Rob Miskosky]

Not sure where I stated that I was against anybody benefiting from anything. Read my posts again please.

Of course the traplines are going to recreational. Why would anyone do this for a living?

There are very few individuals who trap to make a living. Those that do benefit by the opportunity to do Animal Damage Control (ADC) work to supplement meager earnings from their trapline. Most trappers trap because of the lifestyle they are able to achieve and because they have an unconditional love for the animals they trap and the wilderness that surrounds them. They report to Fish and Wildlife any things they see or find regarding the health of the animals and/or land they trap. They work with Fish and Wildlife and other organizations on projects or studies taking place on their traplines and they promote what they do because they know that the loss of the trapper is a huge loss to the areas they trap. They are the custodians of our forests.

Does the guy owning a trapline that uses it for recreational purpose do any of those things? Does he spend the time to teach those who do not appreciate or understand the role a trapper plays in the environment the importance of that role? Does he worry about the marten and the fisher or the otter and lynx? Or is he just concerned about that rock on the trail that one day is going to wreck the ski on his skidoo or the tire on his quad? Or whether or not he can get away with that big addition on his cabin so he has more room for the boys at hunting season?

Far too many own traplines for the wrong reasons. This, in the end, will be the loss of the true trapper in Alberta, and with that loss is the loss of a time-honoured tradition that helped shape this country into what it is today.

Make each trapper provide a productive amount of hides each year. not a quota provided by someone who doesn't know, or a quess by someone who does. But by a assoc. that can regulate itself.

And those quotas are arrived at by information supplied by the trapper. And yes, sometimes there has to be a shoving match for the trapper to be heard, but he is eventually heard because he is always right when it comes to the animals on his trapline. Really, who could know better?

And my personal hope is that the Alberta Trapper's Association does get the opportunity to regulate itself. With that regulation will come the end of trapline abuse and the restoration of trapping in Alberta as it should be.

[Douglas N]

I hope the proposed new definition of an active trapper and the point system takes into consideration the mountain pine beetle action plan. In speaking to Forestry and Sunpine- a good portion of the pine in this province will be clear-cut and/or burned in the next 20 years. They are even talking about taking the old growth spruce "just in case the beetles move to the them". The marten/wolf/lynx trapping is sure to be terrible in the next 20 years to come-on a lot of the lines.

[Okotokian]

Ok, I just dropped into the Trapping area out of curiosity. Never trapped before. Completely ignorant about it.

So my questions is this: What is actually "sold" when you sell a trapline. I assume you don't own the land. Is it the sale of the permission of the landowners to exclusively trap on the land? Does a trapper have this right contractually in writing for a period of time such than he can sell or trade it?

[fat cat]

Rob: Why do you continue to put so much faith in fish and wildlife? they killed the trapper, and allowed the sales of lines to recreational users????

[Rob Miskosky]

I put faith in them because I work closely with them on a regular basis and I know how dedicated they are to what they do. Unfortunately, Klein decided the department wasn't worth maintaining at a level to which they were able to properly do their jobs and gutted it. These people have far too many things on their plates to be able to focus solely on certain issues. Until the department is given a proper budget so they can hire more enforcement officers, biologists etc., don't expect miracles that are unattainable.

And you can't blame Fish and Wildlife for the greed of certain individuals.

[sourdough doug]

I only wish I had more time and/or was faster on the keyboard than I am because I could go on at length about what is happening to the trapping sector in AB . There is nothing at all that I do not agree with that Rob has mentioned and he is really trying to keep this post on track. A very hard thing to do since as I stated so many things are presently influencing trapping. As Doug N. said about this "active trapper" paper that has or will be coming down from the powers to be, well it scares me that so many people, political people, are the ones enacting this "legislation".. Yeah , the ATA , initiated the whole thing and IMO we slipped the rope around our own neck . I better not go further cuz this is exactly what Rob is trying to prevent--more worms in the can.. Sorry about that Rob, keep up the crusade..
Do you think Uncle Eddy will be able to keep things on a level keel and be able to sort the bears--t from the blueberries especially where some of these "user groups" are conc
erned ?
Say fat cat, what you said is bang on too- however I've heard some of the loopholes that were used and in most cases the fish cops had their hands tied and not to allow it to happen probably would have ended up in a court case. Damned if you do and if you don't..
Gotta go now , this time for sure................

[Trapline]

Has anyone heard what is happening with the changes to the definition of a active trapper, scince all the government ministers have changed.

[Rob Miskosky]

My understanding is that a Consultants Report is - if not in his hands already - on its way to the Deputy Minister.

[Dark Wing 01]

Any updates Rob?

[Rob Miskosky]

Haven't heard much, but then again I haven't been asking questions. May be time....

[guidehunt]

Thats good news have seen to many trap line cabins used as hunting camps .

[catnthehat]

The one in the Bargain Finder is $65,000... what a joke! Have to catch a lot of beaver to pay for that, provided it didn't burn down in a forest fire.
I dunno, two quads, three snowmobiles, tub trailers and sleds.tractor with bucket, cabin equipped with solar, 12V, 110 with plumbing, two freezers, decked out skinning shack
with stainless skinning tables , skiing poles etc and two line cabins insulated and sided.

Part of the line is on a large river, lots of long haired fur, plus easy access to town.
trails that ring and bisect the whole line, big work shop.
traps and snares galore.
Figure out the time involved for the last fifteen years and fur taken,. plus the assests
That's gotta be worth something
Cat

[sourdough doug]

I think , I have to agree with you catman. Can you imagine a farmer, having to give away all the sweat equity he has put into his life on the land. Sure, they will say, it's not the same, but there are a lot of similarities. Mostly, though, it's all envy. I could say, jealously, but that would only rub salt in a wound. There have been any number of abuses of trapline cabins and as usual, the "anti's", paint us all with the same brush. Oh yes, we have them amongst us too. If the powers to be would have had the balls to nip it in the bud, this would not be an issue. I should tell you of a certain "trappers cabin" in the Calling Lake area and see what political bees nest that - should - have been. I think maybe, at least I hope, some can see the point I am trying to make. I, probably paid too much for the line I have, but the peace it brings to me, just to think of it, is the reason I did so. And I don't regret it for a minute. However when the bones get to tired to pack all that expensive beaver up the slippery slopes, I sure hope someone will come along with the same desires as I had..Yes sir ree.. :)

[Dark Wing]

A farmer can eke out a living, a trapper can't. Seeing a lot of apples and oranges analogies on this sight lately. There are a lot of nice cabins out there . The question I have is, are you buying a trapline or an investment property?

[catnthehat]

There is one going up for sale in the Ft. Mac area as soon as I can get over and post it!:D
Cat

[German]

I think trapper's compensation, should only cover the cabin in the event of a forest fire. Any logging or siesmic activity doesn't make that big a difference. No one really relies on trapping to put bread on the table, and if they do, they living in a dream world. As much as I dread the speed the world turns, their is no slowing down progress. Trapping is a nice escape, but not a living anymore.

[catnthehat]

A farmer can eke out a living, a trapper can't. Seeing a lot of apples and oranges analogies on this sight lately. There are a lot of nice cabins out there . The question I have is, are you buying a trapline or an investment property?

You can't buy it for an investment property becuase you don't own the land, just the improvements.

And those have to be kept up, wether it be the eequipment , trails, cabin, etc.
There is notheing that is going to bring equity by sitting there , it will rot , rust, or grow over if not maintained, so buying one for an investment is kinda sketchy
unless you disregard the amount of time you put into it.

The F&W as I understand it is clamping down and in the past has not approved the sale of some lines in this area becsause the buyers could not prove that they either were going to trap the line, or were not competant trappers.

Cat

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Is Gary Brooks still trapping north of Fort Mac?

Greg

[Rafter]

I think , I have to agree with you catman. Can you imagine a farmer, having to give away all the sweat equity he has put into his life on the land. Sure, they will say, it's not the same, but there are a lot of similarities. Mostly, though, it's all envy. I could say, jealously, but that would only rub salt in a wound. There have been any number of abuses of trapline cabins and as usual, the "anti's", paint us all with the same brush. Oh yes, we have them amongst us too. If the powers to be would have had the balls to nip it in the bud, this would not be an issue. I should tell you of a certain "trappers cabin" in the Calling Lake area and see what political bees nest that - should - have been. I think maybe, at least I hope, some can see the point I am trying to make. I, probably paid too much for the line I have, but the peace it brings to me, just to think of it, is the reason I did so. And I don't regret it for a minute. However when the bones get to tired to pack all that expensive beaver up the slippery slopes, I sure hope someone will come along with the same desires as I had..Yes sir ree.. :)

Sourdough and others,

I believe that traplines should be sold at a price that is determined by market value.

I echo your sentiments fully.

I have been trapping professionally for over forty years and have bought, sold and even given away traplines. I have paid what seemed to be large sums with no regrets. My investment has allowed me to live my life in a healthy manner and in a short time the lower cost of living paid my investment back. No big mortgage, no big taxes, no gas bills, no electrical bills etc... I must admit that the fur returns were never large compared to working out, but it always allowed me to get by. I am on my last trapline now and hope to sell with in the next few years for a fair market value in order to supplement my retirement.

I am of the opinion that trappers should be able to sell the rights to trap to other qualified individuals. A good analogy is when the Government gave permits to outfitters that became worth a lot of money when they were sold. Some were worth $100,000.00 plus.

I also believe that trappers should be allowed to supplement their incomes by offering trapline tours.

Trappers should have to qualify and be monitored by the Government that they are out on the line and are not just some moneyed up people playing.

I could go on and on but I don't want to get too wordy.

Thanks,
Rafter

[moose maniac]

nothing is going to change just watch