Net neutrality

[skain11]

Hopefully the CRTC or whoever in Canada is responsible for these decisions remains strong for net neutrality and I work for one of the ISPs. thought I should share this while we can. More Trump insanity...I look forward to comments from those against net neutrality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vuuZt7wak

[hilt134]

We seemed to be fine before 2015 so I think we will be now also if Google apple and facebook are for it being agianst it should be good. Not to mention that apple already slows your device down to make you upgrade.

[SlightlyDistracting]

We seemed to be fine before 2015 so I think we will be now also if Google apple and facebook are for it being agianst it should be good. Not to mention that apple already slows your device down to make you upgrade.

Nice
Well said

[Bellero]

Yes, because we need more government in our lives!

[midgetwaiter]

We seemed to be fine before 2015 so I think we will be now also if Google apple and facebook are for it being agianst it should be good. Not to mention that apple already slows your device down to make you upgrade.

The reason it was fine before 2015 is because ISPs largely respected the FCC’s advice that they should behave as common carriers therefore treating traffic the same. There were a few exceptions where telco owned ISPs were messing with VOIP providers like Vonage but for the most part the guidance was followed. That changed in 2014 when Comcast started throttling traffic from Netflix looking to get a cut of their revenue.

https://consumerist.com/2014/02/23/netflix-agrees-to-pay-comcast-to-end-slowdown/

The vast majority of consumer ISPs are Cable or Telco providers that see Netflix and other streaming services as an existential threat. IMO they’re right, with the expansion of Netflix and Amazon into original productions and studios having their own streaming services like Hulu it’s not clear exactly what benefit cable tv provides. The very day I get HBO now in Canada my Shaw service is gone. This is a defacto duopoly scrambling to protect itself. The “We were fine before Obama meddled” narrative is completely bogus.

Also, the Apple battery management thing might slow your phone slightly but it also keeps a marginal battery from turning it into a paperweight when the output spikes. It sucks but it’s a reasonable trade off.

[purgatory.sv]

I know nothing ,but if i am paying to build network i want all to contribute?

:):scared0018:

[Newview01]

Hopefully the CRTC or whoever in Canada is responsible for these decisions remains strong for net neutrality and I work for one of the ISPs. thought I should share this while we can. More Trump insanity...I look forward to comments from those against net neutrality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vuuZt7wak

So you want more government control?

Anybody who is for net neutrality should live in China for example.

Pathetic, to say the least.

[Bellero]

Screw net neutrality, if your internet provider is blocking or censoring some content, then you switch provider, that's how free markets works. We don't need the government to be involved, enough already with CRTC.

I'm way more concerned with the fact that we pay much more than any other western country for internet, cell phone, data plans, etc..

[ESOXangler]

So you want more government control?

Anybody who is for net neutrality should live in China for example.

Pathetic, to say the least.

I think you missed something along the way when you were researching and building an opinion...

[Bellero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vguz5CuATEE

[midgetwaiter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vguz5CuATEE

Ok so one side of the argument you have a professional pot stirrer like this twit and on the other side we have the guys that invented the internet, the web, email, Google, the personal computer and public key cryptography.

https://pioneersfornetneutrality.tumblr.com/

Yeah.... tough one.

[Bellero]

Ok so one side of the argument you have a professional pot stirrer like this twit and on the other side we have the guys that invented the internet, the web, email, Google, the personal computer and public key cryptography.

https://pioneersfornetneutrality.tumblr.com/

Yeah.... tough one.

Yep, if the Democrats, Apple, Facebook, Google, Soros and al are for it, it's a no brainer that I'm against it.

[Spooner]

Ignorance is a self imposed life sentence.

Free your mind to free your life and community.

[rocpilefsj]

I'm way more concerned with the fact that we pay much more than any other western country for internet, cell phone, data plans, etc..

Agreed. Ridiculous what we pay.

[hilt134]

Screw net neutrality, if your internet provider is blocking or censoring some content, then you switch provider, that's how free markets works. We don't need the government to be involved, enough already with CRTC.

I'm way more concerned with the fact that we pay much more than any other western country for internet, cell phone, data plans, etc..

Exactly and not to mention have you seen any deals on internet service latley? The mobile providers are always getting better and better whereas internet stays the same like cable did. And to whoever said that you mcast cut service speed you failed to mention that the free market lit them up untill they changed their.

[TylerThomson]

Screw net neutrality, if your internet provider is blocking or censoring some content, then you switch provider, that's how free markets works. We don't need the government to be involved, enough already with CRTC.

I'm way more concerned with the fact that we pay much more than any other western country for internet, cell phone, data plans, etc..

There are no other providers where I live so what do you suggest I do?

I think many people don't even understand what net neutrality is all they see is big government so it must be bad.

[SlimChance]

So you want more government control?

Anybody who is for net neutrality should live in China for example.

Pathetic, to say the least.

Net neutraility is designed to protet the free flow of information. China censors information.

Your analogy is literally backward.

Yep, if the Democrats, Apple, Facebook, Google, Soros and al are for it, it's a no brainer that I'm against it.

Generally Democrats, Apple, Facebook, Google employees and George Soros are in favour of protections from genocide and slavery, too.

But, if that's how you form your opinions, have at it, I guess.

I'm being facetious, but that's a really dumb way to form opinions. It's not inconceivable that people we don't like can be right once in a while and it makes a lot more sense to judge an issue on its merits rather than oppose it because your enemies don't.


Screw net neutrality, if your internet provider is blocking or censoring some content, then you switch provider, that's how free markets works. We don't need the government to be involved, enough already with CRTC.

I'm way more concerned with the fact that we pay much more than any other western country for internet, cell phone, data plans, etc..

You'd still be willingly limiting the content you can see or willingly relying on the benevolence of providers.

If I use two competing streaming services, I would be forced to choose one or the other as each provider would throttle one.

Imagine, if you could get TSN with one cable provider or Sportsnet with another, bit never both at the same time, for example. And that's the most benign example. It gets much more worrying when you start to think about news etc.

[Unregistered user]

Why worry about how the US regulates its 'net when ours is already heavily censored and monitored?

[SlimChance]

Why worry about how the US regulates its 'net when ours is already heavily censored and monitored?

Because, despite stricter and more established neutrality laws Canadian providers (notably Bell, Telus and Xplornet) have been caught attempting to throttle content or block content critical of them?

Because we care about other people's access to information, understand that the world is interconnected and that American access to information could lead to policies that directly affect Canada?

Because access to information in general is critical in ensuring an educated and world-aware populace and the throttling of information is generally indicitive of an attempt to limit the understanding of the people - something we should probably oppose on principle?

[midgetwaiter]

Yep, if the Democrats, Apple, Facebook, Google, Soros and al are for it, it's a no brainer that I'm against it.

Yeah I get it, understanding things is hard.

[hilt134]

Yeah I get it, understanding things is hard.

Let expand it a bit. The only conceivable reason i can see for the large company's to disagree with this repeal is to keep them from beholden to the market. Face it YouTube, Google, Facebook, and Twitter already throttle your content. They ban people and sink add revenue to where business is impossible if they don't agree with them. So this opens their backs to new instability they have to look at how their service works with the service providers. And maybe we will get some deals out of it.

So my next point is what does it serve the ISPs to throttle your service. The only thing they would do is rattle their customers and make a space for someone to steal business. Government regulations on industry are great if you never want it to change.

There is no benefit for ISPs to change how they operate particularly is rural areas. It does not matter how bad the service, connection or cost is because there is no choice. And the company's have no competition so why change. This is another step to open the market up and allow for change. Internet and cable have to be two of the worst sections for choice it's like old landlines.

[midgetwaiter]

Let expand it a bit. The only conceivable reason i can see for the large company's to disagree with this repeal is to keep them from beholden to the market. Face it YouTube, Google, Facebook, and Twitter already throttle your content. They ban people and sink add revenue to where business is impossible if they don't agree with them. So this opens their backs to new instability they have to look at how their service works with the service providers. And maybe we will get some deals out of it.


No that's not it at all. Companies that provide bandwidth intensive services like Netflix and YouTube don't want to be held hostage by ISPs that want a cut of their revenue. Read the article I posted earlier, it outlines the situation between Netflix and Comcast in 2014 quite nicely. Comcast was deliberately putting off a network improvement that would be good for their customers until Netflix agreed to give them money for it. I buy a network connection from Shaw, not a connection to a poorly defined subset of the network they are on friendly terms with.

https://consumerist.com/2014/02/23/netflix-agrees-to-pay-comcast-to-end-slowdown/

Consider that the internet isn't a single network, it is a mesh made up of several networks that work on a standard protocol set. If I request a video file from a website my ISP might have a direct connection to the provider or I might have to go through 6 different backbone networks before my traffic gets to it's destination. It doesn't really matter if my ISP has a good relationship with Netflix when I might have to go through AT&T, Sprint and Level 3 to get there, any one of them can degrade the traffic at some point. This is not a hypothetical, I've had Verizon black hole my company's traffic to a data provider before due to a bad route. Our app performance was degraded because of this and it was a real bastard to deal with because neither us or the data provider were Verizon customers and as such had no support to call.

So maybe my ISP will get a direct pipe into Youtube I can pay a couple bucks extra a month for, hurray. Or maybe it doesn't matter what my ISP does because Verizon is having a fight with google about something and they decide to knock down a couple routes for a week. Or they decide they don't like Facetime because it hurts their long distance revenue on the retail side. There's tons of examples of stuff like this that has already happened.

The internet is big, intertwined and complicated.

[Unregistered user]

Because, despite stricter and more established neutrality laws Canadian providers (notably Bell, Telus and Xplornet) have been caught attempting to throttle content or block content critical of them?

Because we care about other people's access to information, understand that the world is interconnected and that American access to information could lead to policies that directly affect Canada?

Because access to information in general is critical in ensuring an educated and world-aware populace and the throttling of information is generally indicitive of an attempt to limit the understanding of the people - something we should probably oppose on principle?
so let's clean up our own back yard.

[TylerThomson]

so let's clean up our own back yard.

What are you talking about? What is censored in Canada and which isp is throttling anything other than users breaking the TOS by heavily using bittorrent?

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2015/canada

[dawei88]

Netflix use tons of bandwidth, it is fair for them to pay more.

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[dawei88]

Yep, if the Democrats, Apple, Facebook, Google, Soros and al are for it, it's a no brainer that I'm against it.Good saying.

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[Au revoir, Gopher]

Netflix use tons of bandwidth, it is fair for them to pay more.

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Flip side; netflix doesn't use any bandwidth, their customers do and they are already paying an ISP to route packets to them. Why should I pay more for Netflix packets than I do for AOF packets?

ARG

[TylerThomson]

Flip side; netflix doesn't use any bandwidth, their customers do and they are already paying an ISP to route packets to them. Why should I pay more for Netflix packets than I do for AOF packets?

ARG

I was going to say this but you got it covered. It is abundantly clear the longer that this thread goes that the opponents to net neutrality have
A) no idea how the internet works
B) no idea what net neutrality is

[Unregistered user]

What are you talking about? What is censored in Canada and which isp is throttling anything other than users breaking the TOS by heavily using bittorrent?

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2015/canada

There are many sites we can't access from Canada without hiding behind a VPN. Government control CANCON etc. is to blame, hell even some youtube content is blocked from us frostbacks. Do a search, the first ones to load up are from the companies that pay the most money to the search provider. We pay good money for net access but it is manipulated and controlled as are we.

[TylerThomson]

There are many sites we can't access from Canada without hiding behind a VPN. Government control CANCON etc. is to blame, hell even some youtube content is blocked from us frostbacks. Do a search, the first ones to load up are from the companies that pay the most money to the search provider. We pay good money for net access but it is manipulated and controlled as are we.

Are you talking about region blocking? That isn't censorship. That's companies protecting their ip. That is a far cry from censorship. Yout seem to be confused. Cancon is mainly about how much canadian content must be played by cable and radio stations operating in Canada and had nothing to do with the internet.

What am I searching for? What companies are you talking about. You seem to be also confused between pay for access fast lanes that net neutrality is meant to prevent and pay for higher rankings info search results which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about and I don't think you do either.

[SlimChance]

Are you talking about region blocking? That isn't censorship. That's companies protecting their ip. That is a far cry from censorship. Yout seem to be confused. Cancon is mainly about how much canadian content must be played by cable and radio stations operating in Canada and had nothing to do with the internet.

What am I searching for? What companies are you talking about. You seem to be also confused between pay for access fast lanes that net neutrality is meant to prevent and pay for higher rankings info search results which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about and I don't think you do either.

There's no small amount of irony reading a guy complain about companies blocking him from seeing content while simultaneously demanding companies be allowed to block him from seeing content.

[Unregistered user]

Are you talking about region blocking? That isn't censorship. That's companies protecting their ip. That is a far cry from censorship. Yout seem to be confused. Cancon is mainly about how much canadian content must be played by cable and radio stations operating in Canada and had nothing to do with the internet.

What am I searching for? What companies are you talking about. You seem to be also confused between pay for access fast lanes that net neutrality is meant to prevent and pay for higher rankings info search results which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about and I don't think you do either.

I do, you don't. Merry Christmas Mike Foxtrot (If that is your real name).

[TylerThomson]

Well boys we found the first one to hit the egg nog a little to hard.

[midgetwaiter]

There are many sites we can't access from Canada without hiding behind a VPN. Government control CANCON etc. is to blame, hell even some youtube content is blocked from us frostbacks. Do a search, the first ones to load up are from the companies that pay the most money to the search provider. We pay good money for net access but it is manipulated and controlled as are we.

Nope, not even close. This is about licensing agreements and it is absolutely NOT a uniquely Canadian problem.

When Bell buys a license for SNL so they can broadcast it on CTV or Comedy they get the rights for that content over a geographic region. Up until recently they controlled those rights in all formats, doesn’t matter if its broadcast or streamed. If NBC turns around and decides they want to upload SNL clips to YouTube they are obligated to restrict that content to the geographic region they own the rights to. You will find all the same VPN and other region skipping ticks in use in the UK as well.

There are production companies that retain rights so they can sell the content on iTunes or YouTube now. Look at Last Week Tonight for an example, you will find their pieces on Net Neutrality informative. It’s going to be a while before that’s a common situation though. I’ll bet Bell has properties like SNL wrapped up for 20 years.

[TylerThomson]

I'd like to think that he was able to grasp the gist of that. Unfortunately he's already decided he's the smartest man I the room.