Bitcoin

[Gray Wolf]

.
All you'll ever need to know about Bitcoin, in less than 5 minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zIbVEjVpQ

Any questions? :acigar:
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[Twisted Canuck]

I know that guy x 10....and they are all the same.

[loyaleddie]

I know that guy x 10....and they are all the same.

What??????

:bad_boys_20:

[BuckCuller]

Crashed 30% today.
Then recover a bit but still a heavy loss for someone that may have just bought in.

[therealj]

1992 :What do you mean you are going to send mail with a computer, I can drive down to the store, buy a stamp and in a week they will get my message.

2017 : What do you mean there's a technology called blockchain that is going to change the world and allow people to store their funds away from centralized bank/government controlled systems. The government and banks are looking out for me, right?

[ak-71]

Even if blockchain becomes accepted (otherwise it's just sending each other bits and bytes), Bitcoin to blockchain may very well be a Blackberry to a smartphone. Look beyond the hype.

[Jays toyz]

Seems like a worldwide Ponzi Scheme.

[therealj]

Even if blockchain becomes accepted (otherwise it's just sending each other bits and bytes), Bitcoin to blockchain may very well be a Blackberry to a smartphone. Look beyond the hype.

There's no if, Amex and IBM are already adopting, Russia and numerous other countries are on the path to creating crypto currency. Australia is moving their stock market to blockchain technology. In terms of Bitcoin, I think it's flawed in
many ways, don't currently hold any, well diversified in other crypto however.

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/foreign-exchange/articles/blockchain-to-accelerate-payment-processing-services/

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-asx-is-replacing-its-chess-share-clearing-system-with-blockchain-technology-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2017/12/14/ibm-walmart-launching-blockchain-food-safety-alliance-in-china-with-fortune-500s-jd-com/#70a78c387d9c

[Reeves1]

I was born with nothing.... and still have most of it !





If it cost a nickle to go around the world....... I don't have enough to get out of sight !

[ak-71]

There's no if, Amex and IBM are already adopting, Russia and numerous other countries are on the path to creating crypto currency. Australia is moving their stock market to blockchain technology. In terms of Bitcoin, I think it's flawed in
many ways, don't currently hold any, well diversified in other crypto however.

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/foreign-exchange/articles/blockchain-to-accelerate-payment-processing-services/

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-asx-is-replacing-its-chess-share-clearing-system-with-blockchain-technology-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2017/12/14/ibm-walmart-launching-blockchain-food-safety-alliance-in-china-with-fortune-500s-jd-com/#70a78c387d9c

Very good point, Russia is a good example that anyone can come up with his own implementation of a blockchain, you've just made my point that unless Bitcoin just gets commonly accepted as a standard many are set on using and then survives the competition with other infinite versions of cryptocurrencies it can become extinct as so many other trial versions of new technologies, only faster.

PS. I am actually surprised that seismic companies and others with massive computing power are not mining something on a side with their core business being in a slowdown, not hard for them to get out if it goes down, no additional costs

[Reaver]

Seems like a worldwide Ponzi Scheme.

LOL, well you could say that about paper with fancy writing printed on it as well.

[ak-71]

LOL, well you could say that about paper with fancy writing printed on it as well.

Only government can make you use their design of fancy paper and many governments do.

Interesting graph, very popular lately for some reason :thinking-006:

http://fixwillpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/bubble.jpg

[MyAlberta]

Russian encryption technology was largely based on their strong decryption capabilities. Something worth thinking about. In an investing perspective, a high risk component is good. Adds some excitement. Timing a one time win is largely a stroke of luck, unless you keep replenishing the account, which now your gambling, and the house wins.

[therealj]

Very good point, Russia is a good example that anyone can come up with his own implementation of a blockchain, you've just made my point that unless Bitcoin just gets commonly accepted as a standard many are set on using and then survives the competition with other infinite versions of cryptocurrencies it can become extinct as so many other trial versions of new technologies, only faster.

PS. I am actually surprised that seismic companies and others with massive computing power are not mining something on a side with their core business being in a slowdown, not hard for them to get out if it goes down, no additional costs

Completely agree regarding bitcoin, it's slow, expensive to use, biggest advantage right now is being first.

[TBark]

The old phrase,
Someone else’s money.

TBark

[brslk]

That video is everyone I've ever talked to about bitcoin

[Spooner]

There's no if, Amex and IBM are already adopting, Russia and numerous other countries are on the path to creating crypto currency. Australia is moving their stock market to blockchain technology. In terms of Bitcoin, I think it's flawed in
many ways, don't currently hold any, well diversified in other crypto however.

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/foreign-exchange/articles/blockchain-to-accelerate-payment-processing-services/

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-asx-is-replacing-its-chess-share-clearing-system-with-blockchain-technology-2017-12

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2017/12/14/ibm-walmart-launching-blockchain-food-safety-alliance-in-china-with-fortune-500s-jd-com/#70a78c387d9c



Would you tell a couple of the currencies you've purchased, where and how you hold them?

[therealj]

Would you tell a couple of the currencies you've purchased, where and how you hold them?

Sure, no problem.

First many of the tokens are ERC-20 meaning they are issued on the Ethereum blockchain, any of my tokens that fall under this are stored on an offline myetherwallet.

Many of my other coins/tokens have their own downloadable wallets. My top five investments are as follows, for ****s and giggles here's what I predict each of these to be at in 6 months......bookmark this page ;)

1) Waves - currently $13 / 6 months $75
2) SONM - currently $0.42 / 6 months $2
3) Stratis - currently $14.94 / 6 months $50
4) Ark - currently $6.35 / 6 months $25
5) Neblio - currently $7.19 / 6 months $30

These all have their own wallet aside from SONM, but they will have a wallet shortly. I've only invested in projects that I believe have a future/real world purpose, the vast majority of the coins/tokens are very speculative and simply their for pump and dump purposes.

I mostly use binance.com to do my trading. The toughest part is the initial funding, coinbase is probably the easiest point of entry but they have very low buy limits for the first month.

[HoytCRX32]

Will go the way of Atari
Better ones will emerge

[Gray Wolf]

Only government can make you use their design of fancy paper and many governments do.

Interesting graph, very popular lately for some reason :thinking-006:

http://fixwillpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/bubble.jpg


That graph can be applied to a lot of investment scenarios.

I think the present stock market is in the "Delusion" stage right now. It's time to cash-out, and :scared0018:


:sign0111:
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[Jays toyz]

Only government can make you use their design of fancy paper and many governments do.

Interesting graph, very popular lately for some reason :thinking-006:

http://fixwillpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/bubble.jpg

I am not sure that every country ever is taking part in a Ponzi scheme, though I have met some nut bags that think the country would be better off sans government. Do you also believe that taxes are not legal and you are a sovereign citizen?

[ak-71]

I am not sure that every country ever is taking part in a Ponzi scheme, though I have met some nut bags that think the country would be better off sans government. Do you also believe that taxes are not legal and you are a sovereign citizen?

Not sure I follow, like, at all.

PS. Graph was related to what I think about Bitcoin. My comment about governments meant to say that in my opinion Bitcoin is very different from any government issued currency.

[Gray Wolf]

Not sure I follow, like, at all

Like, me too!

[ak-71]

Sorry, Wolf, most of the English I learn from my daughter, she is a native speaker and I am not. "Like" - is like an integral part of modern English, right?

[Jays toyz]

I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that you were making a socioeconomic statement about currencies being"fake". A position usually taken by tax "truthers". Apologies.

[223MB]

Some investment advisor on CNN was talking about the amount of people that are taking out monster loans in order to purchase these things. Maybe I’m a big sissy, but it’s scary how much people are willing to risk.

[ak-71]

I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that you were making a socioeconomic statement about currencies being"fake". A position usually taken by tax "truthers". Apologies.

Must be my English, but I'm glad that we are on the same page.
Merry Christmas.

[Amateur Hunter]

Does anyone know what is USA government stand on Bitcoin?
Are they ready to get rid of it's own US dollar? Are they ready to accept that barrel of oil is 50 BC , not $50 us ?
If answers are NO , I would run away from BC
Just my 2 cents

[therealj]

Does anyone know what is USA government stand on Bitcoin?
Are they ready to get rid of it's own US dollar? Are they ready to accept that barrel of oil is 50 BC , not $50 us ?
If answers are NO , I would run away from BC
Just my 2 cents

What does the US Government have to do with a decentralized currency?

[whitetail Junkie]

What does the US Government have to do with a decentralized currency?

My guess is alot once the IRS drops the hammer.

[therealj]

My guess is alot once the IRS drops the hammer.

It's taxable like any other investment in the US if you withdraw, you can sell stock with Etrade and the onus is still on the individual to do their due diligence with tax filling. Anyone that knows what they are doing investing in crypto isn't concerned about moving their bitcoin into USD or any other depreciating fiat, that's the whole point.

The IRS getting involved is all the more reason people will keep their money in BTC or other crypto's.

Rather than fight crypto you will see more and more countries incorporate it into their own currency, mark my words.

[Buckhead]

Does anyone know what is USA government stand on Bitcoin?
Are they ready to get rid of it's own US dollar? Are they ready to accept that barrel of oil is 50 BC , not $50 us ?
If answers are NO , I would run away from BC
Just my 2 cents

Why would they need to stand anywhere when they can just wait on the sidelines and see how things pan out.
Then devise their own cryptocurrency and crush the market.

[Selkirk]

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https://image.slidesharecdn.com/20150603backbasebuildingsmarterbank-150603151034-lva1-app6892/95/building-a-smarter-bank-with-ron-shevlin-2-638.jpg?cb=1433355045


Don't be a Bitsucker!


Selkirk

[TBark]

Guys that hold bitcoin from 2-4 months ago, and are still holding, are laughing.
Those who bought in Dec not so much.
It’s value is strictly based on people’s confidence in it, like no other commodity, so silly it genius.
Just don’t be the last guy out holding the pot.

TBark

[Weedy1]

Has the slow death of Bitcoin began?

Charts aren't looking too favourable going forward...

https://charts.bitcoin.com/chart/price

[Newview01]

Has the slow death of Bitcoin began?

Charts aren't looking too favourable going forward...

https://charts.bitcoin.com/chart/price

I don't think slow is the right word.

But if it collapses I believe it will set off a chain reaction.

[Sundancefisher]

There is a reason bitcoin plummeted 50% so far.


https://www.bitstamp.net/

interesting watching trading. Small little quantities. Curious what the daily trade volume is.

Anyways.

No backing of bit coin via underpinned assets or country. No accountability for bitcoin by anyone.

Talk about gambling your money away.

[wildwoods]

Meh, I did good with it. I missed the peak but still pulled out at a good time. Some of them went up over 900%. We may never see anything like that again in our lifetimes. It was worth the disposable income I threw at it.
No sense celebrating people losing huge money. They took a chance on hype and speculation which is not smart at all, but I don't see the point of rubbing it in. Some of the cryptos actually have a small place in society. Wire transfer of funds has been forever changed IMO. But there wasn't a true value for the hype and that's why I pulled early, even when it was painful to do so. The writing was on the wall...

[guysmiley]

I find it ironic that the current severe drop in value is possibly tied to Government meddling in Asia. There was talk about the Governments stepping in and closing exchanges and regulating the currencies which has caused a panic sell off by spooked investors (gamblers) specifically in South Korea and China.

I only dabble in it but there are still many big players who I feel will still make a lot of money buying it up cheaply while the small fish are in a frenzy.

Time will tell I guess. In the last 20 minutes I've watched Ether go from 950 Canadian to 1100.

[The Elkster]

There is no way crypto in its current form is going to become currency. It's subject to far far too much fluctuation. How the hell would one price things day to day. Sell for X today and currency is all of a sudden worth 30% less tomorrow when rent is due. There is a reason generally accepted currencies are what they are. Sure they are manipulated to some extent but they offer some stability at least. And its not like crypto's aren't being manipulated by whales. Big money always wins.

And cypto's do not = blockchain. They have no patent on blockchain tech so to link them in any way to the inherent benefit of blockchain is stupid. Any company can develop its own tech and dilute the market. What we have is another dot com rush. Everyone knows blockchain is likely to go somewhere somehow but in their hysteria they are bidding up everything blockchain as though its ALL going to go to the moon when in fact like the dot coms only a select few will succeed and the rest will go to zero. Good luck on the speculating. For a repeat of this...see weed stocks. Hmmm didn't dot coms get bid up to astronomic levels even though they showed no profit. How'd that turn out LOL. Nothing wrong with speculating just understand the big risk. People taking out massive loans or using much needed retirement funds to buy in are just stupid.

[guysmiley]

Nothing wrong with speculating just understand the big risk. People taking out massive loans or using much needed retirement funds to buy in are just stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken.... I read about that family that sold their worldly possessions including their house and invested everything into mining bitcoin. They were on the news. I would think he'd be in hot water today with his wife....

[260 Rem]

Being an oldie, understanding Bitcoin is a challenge. For me, it sounds like nothing more than buying/selling stock. What’s new other than it seems unregulated?

[Gray Wolf]

Being an oldie, understanding Bitcoin is a challenge. For me, it sounds like nothing more than buying/selling stock. What’s new other than it seems unregulated?

Not true :scared0015:

When you own stock, you legally own part of a company.

When you own Bitcoin, you legally own part of Nothing.

0 + 0 = Bitcoin ;)
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[wildwoods]

Being an oldie, understanding Bitcoin is a challenge. For me, it sounds like nothing more than buying/selling stock. What’s new other than it seems unregulated?

The difference is that Bitcoin has very little value. Other than expediting funds transfers world wide, it has little to no benefit. Some argue the security of it also has value, however the exchanges these things are traded on are all new and very sketchy to deal with when withdrawing or providing funds. Buying stock in a tangible company, although there are similarities, is quite different.
The crytpo "Ripple" should have absolutely shot thru the roof the other day when Moneygram chose to partner with them. It did go up and then shot right back down. The "values" are based on wild speculation from people who really don't have a clue- including myself. I got in early, made some decent money and hit the road. People are losing confidence in foreign governments that this technology will be allowed to operate. Hence the massive sell off. Some will survive and thrive. Most will crash out. Just my $.02

[The Elkster]

Not true :scared0015:

When you own stock, you legally own part of a company.

When you own Bitcoin, you legally own part of Nothing.

0 + 0 = Bitcoin ;)
.

That is true in a sense but you gotta watch what stock you buy. When many people think stock they aren't thinking bluechips. They are thinking about speculative stocks like gold companies that haven't proven themselves but buddy said "ya can't lose" and they might just go to the moon. If a company is heavily in debt like most startups all the primary debt holders come before the shareholders. If the company goes under shareholders generally get the shaft just as bad as the crypto guys are likely to.

That's why bluechips stocks are what they are but get little attention. No huge returns. Nobody getting rich overnight. But steady gains on solid financials with reasonable debt by selling necessary things like cars and oil and TP and razors and food. Key is to build up enough in the portfolio so those boring 5-10% gains + dividends add up to decent $ return/yr. Boring compared to BTC and gold mines and no instant riches...but I'm happy.

[ehrgeiz]

I'm in the category of those who believe Bitcoin will continue to grow in value and purpose. Contrary to that, I'm certain that USD and CAD will not grow in value or purpose. The fictions of massive Government debt, money printing and it's resulting inflation will see to that without question. Bitcoin is a decentralized and reasonably secure hedge or exit from the growing troubles of the global financial system.

A modest holding of Bitcoin is a responsible speculative investment. Gold and other precious metals are also a responsible hedge on the current currency climate (accidental alliteration!). The world's economy is digital and short of a global catastrophe of biblical proportions it ain't going backwards to trade in precious metals for everyday transactions. The future of finance and currency is crypto, whether it's state issued or decentralized or more likely both is to be determined.

We can revisit this post in 5 years and see what do.

[Twisted Canuck]

That is true in a sense but you gotta watch what stock you buy. When many people think stock they aren't thinking bluechips. They are thinking about speculative stocks like gold companies that haven't proven themselves but buddy said "ya can't lose" and they might just go to the moon. If a company is heavily in debt like most startups all the primary debt holders come before the shareholders. If the company goes under shareholders generally get the shaft just as bad as the crypto guys are likely to.

That's why bluechips stocks are what they are but get little attention. No huge returns. Nobody getting rich overnight. But steady gains on solid financials with reasonable debt by selling necessary things like cars and oil and TP and razors and food. Key is to build up enough in the portfolio so those boring 5-10% gains + dividends add up to decent $ return/yr. Boring compared to BTC and gold mines and no instant riches...but I'm happy.

I'm with you, conservative blue chip dividend paying stocks are boring, and I sleep good at night.

[guysmiley]

Ether is 1400 this morning, up from under 1000 yesterday.

Money to be made indeed.

[buckbrush]

I think it was around 2013. One of the guys I worked with was trying to explain what this bit coin was and how much money would be made off of it.
After explaining it to me I came to the conclusion it was a bad idea, not worth investing in.

I kind of forgot about it until lately. I looked at a chart of the long term activity.
Wish I wouldn't have looked at that chart.
:angry3:

[whitetail Junkie]

Not true :scared0015:



0 + 0 = Bitcoin ;)
.

:D

[Gary K]

Bitcoin is useless. to send 100$ worth of bitcoin currently costs nearly 30$.


XRP, the new standard. can send millions at the price of half a XRP coin. that coin gets burned. so it is a deflationary currency.

its already being tested by major banks, amex, etc.

Basically it is used for settlement instead of SWIFT and wire transfers etc. banks are saving over 60% on transfers sending XRP via Xrapid. or by sending regular old money with Xcurrent. There is trillions wired around the world DAILY. the greedy banks will eventually use XRP, or something like it. to save a **** ton of money.

get it on the annual january dip. which is about now.

i bought in at 2 cents, sold at 3.43$. put it all back into XRP when it was 81 cents two days ago. back up to a 1.50$.

im doing ok, jsut hold onto it and dont panic sell for a loss and youll make money. unless the whole cryptocurrency space dies. but with over 6000 different currencies. i doubt that will happen.

[Ken07AOVette]

Bitcoin is useless. to send 100$ worth of bitcoin currently costs nearly 30$.


XRP, the new standard. can send millions at the price of half a XRP coin. that coin gets burned. so it is a deflationary currency.

its already being tested by major banks, amex, etc.

Basically it is used for settlement instead of SWIFT and wire transfers etc. banks are saving over 60% on transfers sending XRP via Xrapid. or by sending regular old money with Xcurrent. There is trillions wired around the world DAILY. the greedy banks will eventually use XRP, or something like it. to save a **** ton of money.

get it on the annual january dip. which is about now.

i bought in at 2 cents, sold at 3.43$. put it all back into XRP when it was 81 cents two days ago. back up to a 1.50$.

im doing ok, jsut hold onto it and dont panic sell for a loss and youll make money. unless the whole cryptocurrency space dies. but with over 6000 different currencies. i doubt that will happen.

Interesting Gary, I am looking into that. I am hoping it corrects and falls a bit then I will go in for $1000 or so, good plan?

[260 Rem]

Interesting Gary, I am looking into that. I am hoping it corrects and falls a bit then I will go in for $1000 or so, good plan?
No risk...just buy low and sell high. Works every time.

[Ken07AOVette]

No risk...just buy low and sell high. Works every time.

haha :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[ehrgeiz]

Bitcoin is useless. to send 100$ worth of bitcoin currently costs nearly 30$.


XRP, the new standard. can send millions at the price of half a XRP coin. that coin gets burned. so it is a deflationary currency.

its already being tested by major banks, amex, etc.

Basically it is used for settlement instead of SWIFT and wire transfers etc. banks are saving over 60% on transfers sending XRP via Xrapid. or by sending regular old money with Xcurrent. There is trillions wired around the world DAILY. the greedy banks will eventually use XRP, or something like it. to save a **** ton of money.

get it on the annual january dip. which is about now.

i bought in at 2 cents, sold at 3.43$. put it all back into XRP when it was 81 cents two days ago. back up to a 1.50$.

im doing ok, jsut hold onto it and dont panic sell for a loss and youll make money. unless the whole cryptocurrency space dies. but with over 6000 different currencies. i doubt that will happen.


XRP is one asset I've avoided entirely and have zero regret about it. It's centralized and pre-mined with Ripple banking an extremely large portion of the 100 billion tokens issued. Not saying there isn't money to be made on it, but it's antithetical to what I see as the virtues of crypto. Maybe I'm too ideological about it, but I'm not interested in it.

I also have to reject your statement about Bitcoin, XRP is most certainly not "the new standard". In fact, I wouldn't even call it comparable to Bitcoin or any other decentralized crypto asset. You're also making an inappropriate blanket statement about Bitcoin's current fee related challenges.

The reason fees are high is because Bitcoin has the largest network of users. Although Ether is now breaching similar challenges. I can still dictate how much fee I'm willing to pay to have my transaction mined into the block-chain. It just may sit for hours as miners have minimal incentive to include it in the next block. This is an efficacy and scaling challenge that every decentralized digital crypto asset is going to face. The potential solution is already upon us with Segregated Witness Bitcoin Improvement Protocol and off chain transactions using the Lightning Network. As Bitcoin is a decentralized, permission-less, protocol that requires consensus to change it, it is strongly subject to Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Comparatively XRP can be manipulated and shielded from supply and demand due to it's centralized pre-mined protocol. It's hardly a feat of wonder that their asset has minimal fees, but I now have to concede my trust to Ripple, which I refuse to do.

Bitcoin and other decentralized permission-less crypto assets have the potential to be so much more than some get rich quick scheme. They can separate finance and state which is as significant as Thomas Jefferson's separation or church and state for society, if we embrace it.

Anyway I probably went on too much of a tangent there, but I feel your statements are unfairly misleading others.

[Gary K]

XRP is one asset I've avoided entirely and have zero regret about it. It's centralized and pre-mined with Ripple banking an extremely large portion of the 100 billion tokens issued. Not saying there isn't money to be made on it, but it's antithetical to what I see as the virtues of crypto. Maybe I'm too ideological about it, but I'm not interested in it.

I also have to reject your statement about Bitcoin, XRP is most certainly not "the new standard". In fact, I wouldn't even call it comparable to Bitcoin or any other decentralized crypto asset. You're also making an inappropriate blanket statement about Bitcoin's current fee related challenges.

The reason fees are high is because Bitcoin has the largest network of users. Although Ether is now breaching similar challenges. I can still dictate how much fee I'm willing to pay to have my transaction mined into the block-chain. It just may sit for hours as miners have minimal incentive to include it in the next block. This is an efficacy and scaling challenge that every decentralized digital crypto asset is going to face. The potential solution is already upon us with Segregated Witness Bitcoin Improvement Protocol and off chain transactions using the Lightning Network. As Bitcoin is a decentralized, permission-less, protocol that requires consensus to change it, it is strongly subject to Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Comparatively XRP can be manipulated and shielded from supply and demand due to it's centralized pre-mined protocol. It's hardly a feat of wonder that their asset has minimal fees, but I now have to concede my trust to Ripple, which I refuse to do.

Bitcoin and other decentralized permission-less crypto assets have the potential to be so much more than some get rich quick scheme. They can separate finance and state which is as significant as Thomas Jefferson's separation or church and state for society, if we embrace it.

Anyway I probably went on too much of a tangent there, but I feel your statements are unfairly misleading others.

Bitcoin is hardly decentralized. in principal it is. but the Chinese miners control over 70% of the network. EVERY ripple wallet holder controls an equal amount of the net work. kind of. if the Chinese decide to band together tomorrow. the network of bitcoin is done.


thats the beauty of it. it is anti crypto.
this whole decentralized currency nonsense is what gives XRP its value.
banks will use something "centralized" that they can control. like XRP

Ripple was not premined. the coins were created. there is 55 billion XRP in escrow, is this what you are reffering to? they are locked up. they are allowed to release a certain amount monthly. and this is only able to sell to financial institutions (at a discount vs market) for using the Xrapid protocol. they cannot manipulate the market. there are large "whales" that can. but not ripple itself. same as bitcoin. there is a public ledger for ripple. showing all wallet addresses and who owns what. any market manipulation is instantly seen. because they are working with actual banks. not just computer jockeys. they need to abide by regulations. so they CANNOT do this.
other coins can "pump and dump" look at the forks of bitcoin. diamond, cash, unobtanium, etc. diamond literally jsut forked. was worth 90 bucks. and now its 30 less than 2 months later.
there are people holding literally billions of dollars in bitcoin. under 1000 ppl control 45% of bitcoin. nearly 100 billion bucks.

also, your scaling issues dont exist with XRP. they can already make over 1500 transactions per second. the market they are going after transfers trillions of dollars a day. if all banks globally converted tomorrow they could handle it.

sitting for a few hours waiting for money to send is archaic in the crypto space. XRP can do it in under a second. send 1$-1 trilliong and for the same flat fee. currently 10 drops, or 0.00001 XRP or FIFTEN MILLIONS OF A CENT. if it need multiple signatures or approvals this can climb. and when the network is at its maximum. it will be .5XRP. keep in mind, thats 1500 transactions a second.


also heading on tangents and rambling!
and im sure spelling and punctuation is also brutal.

[ehrgeiz]

That's also just not true, Chinese miners do not control 70% of the hash. A large number of miners are located in Asia, but these a mining pools made up of contributing machines from all over the world. These machines can be moved between mining pools at the will of the owner. Interestingly the hash rate of a mining pool is also a product of a free market system where miners are attracted or separated from each pool by the profits shared and the frequency of successful blocks mined. To imply that these loosely connected mining pools are all united under the Peoples Republic of China banner and are corrupting the network is just bogus. More so you're not even considering the need to also corrupt the full nodes broadcasting the block-chain and that fact that even if they achieved this they would have to keep ahead of the honest actors in the network. A successful 51% attack is extremely unlikely as the network continues to grow and could be corrected through a consensus fork even if it did.

Pre-mined, created, materialized whichever term is preferred. Yes, the 55 billion is what I'm referencing. They control the protocol and the block-chain, their recently implemented escrow is a fiction to ward off criticism of their retention of over half the available tokens. The reasons you feel the company is trustworthy and valuable are all fair positions, but all require you to trust them.

The forks are a representation of the permission-less nature of bitcoin. Most aren't even recognized by the majority, but some have merit in their principle. Bitcoin cash reflects a desire to increase the block size to address scaling. I'm still waiting for it to play out to see what solutions actually result in the best effect.

1000 people owning 40% of Bitcoin is pure speculation, but I've no doubt there are whales involved who can manipulate the price by increasing supply, shorting etc. The early adopter whales are in just about every crypto asset. In time the limited 21 million (more like 15 to 18 due to early attrition) will become more and more fractional and these events will be less frequent or viable.

I dunno man, I can't see the future and I don't doubt some fiat will be made on XRP, but it doesn't fit my long term view. Based on your earlier comment you plan to sell high and buy low with XRP which I think can sum up the general attitude toward that outfit. I plan to hold bitcoin indefinitely and I think you'll find a lot more folks with my outlook investing in bitcoin.

Anyway, as I said earlier we'll have check back in a few years and see where the chips actually landed. I could be wrong, but clearly I'm betting that I'm not.

[2011laramie]

I just want to make enough off crypto to buy a boiler for my shop.

[Pathfinder76]

Not true :scared0015:

When you own stock, you legally own part of a company.

When you own Bitcoin, you legally own part of Nothing.

0 + 0 = Bitcoin ;)
.

Laughing! How true!

[catnthehat]

We were talking at work one day years ago and one of the older guys told me the easiest and safest way to double your money was to fold it up and put it back in your wallet!:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Cat

[Gary K]

I'll bet you one xrp to one Bitcoin that xrp is here to stay. But you gotta pay upfront. Lol

And the ownership of BTC is not speculation. Every wallet address is in the block chain. While you cant see who owns the wallet. You can see how much a wallet holds.
Too 3
Wallet 1 2 billion use or 180000 btc
Wallet 2 is bitfinex cold wallet. Also over 2 billion
Wallet 3 is about 1.7 billion

Learning more and more thou! Thanks for the insight!

[HyperMOA]

OK I have a few questions about Bitcoin. They may seem like I'm trying to be bias but these are honest questions I would like answers to.

1. If you dislike FIAT currency and are buying Bitcoin to shelter yourself from it, why are you so happy that it goes up in value based on a FIAT currency? That is like saying a USD is worth nothing, but look at my bitcoin it has quadrupled in nothing (USD).

2. If you want to isolate yourself from a FIAT currency and purchase say gold, I can understand that. Gold has always throughout man's time on this planet had value, I also believe it always will. The same cannot be said about Bitcoin. If we were in a zombie apocalypse I could see people bartering gold, but why would I trust you that the random flash drive you hand me truly has your bitcoin wallet on it? If it did who's to say it could ever be accessed again?

3. If there are truly 600+ cryptocurrencies, what is the chance that even a handful of them actually go mainstream and survive?

4. When you use a FIAT currency you have the backing of a nation behind that currency. True some money hyperinflates, but not many people probably invested heavily in say the Zimbabwe dollar. Many people invest in much more stable economies like the CAD. What does Bitcoin have governing it that can insure me more safety or peace of mind that a quality FIAT currency cannot?

5. FIAT currency is legal tender, could something like bitcoin disappear or be heavily impaired if regions ban its use for commerce?

6. Why do you think the value of Bitcoin will continue to rise? What is going to drive its growth and value going forward?

[ehrgeiz]

I'll bet you one xrp to one Bitcoin that xrp is here to stay. But you gotta pay upfront. Lol

And the ownership of BTC is not speculation. Every wallet address is in the block chain. While you cant see who owns the wallet. You can see how much a wallet holds.
Too 3
Wallet 1 2 billion use or 180000 btc
Wallet 2 is bitfinex cold wallet. Also over 2 billion
Wallet 3 is about 1.7 billion

Learning more and more thou! Thanks for the insight!

Haha, yeah that sounds good, but first let's play raw sham bow and I get to go first!

You're right about the bitcoin addresses holding a ton of coins. The person who created it is anticipated to have mined between $1-1.5 million before disappearing. FBI is also expected to have private keys via lap tops from the old Silk Road busts. My point on the speculation is that we can see the addresses, but we don't know if they're owned by a Government, a corporation, a single investor etc. Some are inactive and assumed lost to attrition of some sort, like the original Satoshi mined bitcoin. I agree with you though, there are definitely whales in it that can and will tilt the value.

I always appreciate someone in the know to talk crypto with, most people disregard it and tune out even if they've asked about it. I can understand why, it sits at a crossroads of 3 super-complex things; economics, cryptography and internet/ network protocol.

[ehrgeiz]

OK I have a few questions about Bitcoin. They may seem like I'm trying to be bias but these are honest questions I would like answers to.

1. If you dislike FIAT currency and are buying Bitcoin to shelter yourself from it, why are you so happy that it goes up in value based on a FIAT currency? That is like saying a USD is worth nothing, but look at my bitcoin it has quadrupled in nothing (USD).

2. If you want to isolate yourself from a FIAT currency and purchase say gold, I can understand that. Gold has always throughout man's time on this planet had value, I also believe it always will. The same cannot be said about Bitcoin. If we were in a zombie apocalypse I could see people bartering gold, but why would I trust you that the random flash drive you hand me truly has your bitcoin wallet on it? If it did who's to say it could ever be accessed again?

3. If there are truly 600+ cryptocurrencies, what is the chance that even a handful of them actually go mainstream and survive?

4. When you use a FIAT currency you have the backing of a nation behind that currency. True some money hyperinflates, but not many people probably invested heavily in say the Zimbabwe dollar. Many people invest in much more stable economies like the CAD. What does Bitcoin have governing it that can insure me more safety or peace of mind that a quality FIAT currency cannot?

5. FIAT currency is legal tender, could something like bitcoin disappear or be heavily impaired if regions ban its use for commerce?

6. Why do you think the value of Bitcoin will continue to rise? What is going to drive its growth and value going forward?


I can probably help you better understand some of these questions, but I've got a full load at work today so I can't be as much of a useless forum-bum as I was yesterday.

[260 Rem]

Thanks to those trying to explain the bitcoin concept to us oldies but regardless of rationale, I suspect there won’t be much “old” money jumping on board. The idea “mining” brings back memories of BreEx:)

[ehrgeiz]

OK I have a few questions about Bitcoin. They may seem like I'm trying to be bias but these are honest questions I would like answers to.

1. If you dislike FIAT currency and are buying Bitcoin to shelter yourself from it, why are you so happy that it goes up in value based on a FIAT currency? That is like saying a USD is worth nothing, but look at my bitcoin it has quadrupled in nothing (USD).

2. If you want to isolate yourself from a FIAT currency and purchase say gold, I can understand that. Gold has always throughout man's time on this planet had value, I also believe it always will. The same cannot be said about Bitcoin. If we were in a zombie apocalypse I could see people bartering gold, but why would I trust you that the random flash drive you hand me truly has your bitcoin wallet on it? If it did who's to say it could ever be accessed again?

3. If there are truly 600+ cryptocurrencies, what is the chance that even a handful of them actually go mainstream and survive?

4. When you use a FIAT currency you have the backing of a nation behind that currency. True some money hyperinflates, but not many people probably invested heavily in say the Zimbabwe dollar. Many people invest in much more stable economies like the CAD. What does Bitcoin have governing it that can insure me more safety or peace of mind that a quality FIAT currency cannot?

5. FIAT currency is legal tender, could something like bitcoin disappear or be heavily impaired if regions ban its use for commerce?

6. Why do you think the value of Bitcoin will continue to rise? What is going to drive its growth and value going forward?

1. It’s not that I dislike FIAT currency, I get my pay cheques in it just like every other Albertan, well most anyway. It’s that I understand it’s also an asset subject to depreciation or maybe it’s better stated as inflation. I like the idea of hedging my risk of hyperinflation with alternatives and I personally think bitcoin fits that role ideally. As I mentioned in an earlier post, gold is a responsible hedge as well, but I feel it has undesirable limitations when compared to bitcoin. I can elaborate further on that later. To answer the second part of the question, you must appreciate that currency is more like a language than anything else. Now and in our every day lives we speak in dollars. Because we regularly interact with dollars everyday we understand value in terms of CAD or USD. When I’ve been travelling abroad and dealing with yen or some other foreign currency I come up with a mathematical relation to quickly translate what I’m spending back into CAD so I can understand the value I’m distributing in their system of trade. Bitcoin is in a language of value that we haven’t fully mapped yet so we relate it to CAD and USD to interpret it as best we can today. This may not always be the way of it.


2. I think you’re right about gold and certain other precious metals, they will always have value. I have gold assets as well in the form of traditional stocks. It’s not because I believe in gold, but because I believe others believe in gold, especially the boomers which still control a significant portion of the global wealth. Most bug-out bag packing gold bugs would scold you for owning ETF gold and suggest the only true hedge is coins and bullion socked-away under your mattress. If the concern is how do I prepare for an electronic black-out global catastrophe of biblical proportion? I’d say collect skills, livestock and bullets, they’ll serve you better than gold in that extremely unlikely event. In every other scenario the world is digital and the requisite global commerce of 7+ billion people will not be facilitated through cumbersome physical hunks of metal.

The second part of your question is much more difficult and complex. I don’t know that I can do the answer you need justice or that you’ll have the requisite frame work to accept and understand, but I’ll try, because writing it helps me clarify my own understanding. I’ve been studying crypto like it’s my second job for about a year and it would probably be hubris to say I have a 40% understanding of the battlefield. Take that as my disclaimer on the accuracy of the following explanation.

Firstly, if I had a thumb drive as my wallet it would probably be a Ledger or Trezor device. These are wallets that can be connected to the internet (hot) or removed from the internet (cold). They use externally entered pins to prevent the possibility of password hijacking through key logging malware. Short of sending bitcoin to a randomly generated address, writing down the private key on paper and locking / hiding it somewhere, these devices are generally considered to be the most secure form of holding crypto today. Especially because the aforementioned paper storage doesn’t have the recovery option of a hierarchical deterministic wallet in case the device is lost or stolen. In English, that’s a master key that uses a cryptographic tool to create a hierarchy of all of your bitcoin addresses and private keys within the block-chain which could be more accurately called a distributed ledger. This master key is encrypted in a 12-word mnemonic phrase that you can hide in plain sight or memorize. Just relying on memory is not advised because it’s way more likely you’ll forget than someone decoding the phrase you’ve had written into each month of the calendar hanging on the wall. Getting back to your question, I wouldn’t hand you my ledger device, I would more likely connect to point of internet access, unlock it and upon you providing me with your bitcoin address characters or more conveniently a QR code I would the instruct my device to transfer the agreed to bitcoin to that address. It would very quickly show up in your wallet, but with a notation advising it’s pending, which is to say the transaction has not been recorded and accepted by the block-chain (distributed / shared ledger).

Ideally this pending should change to confirmed in 10 to 60 minutes max depending on what you personally see as irrevocably verified. It’s inclusion in 1 mined block within the distributed ledger should be good enough, but if your handing over title to the farm, 6 blocks mined on top of your transaction has been suggested by some as absolution. This where Gary K’s valid concern about fees and time delays come in and challenges regarding scaling to the size of the user network now. This step is the most immediate and pressing issue with bitcoin that needs an effective, decentralized, permission-less solution. Much, much, much smarter dudes than me are working on promising solutions to this challenge and it’s important to remember that they’re doing it in an open-source publicly accessible way. Anyone who is smart enough to contribute in a meaningful way can participate in the development without anybody’s permission. Just as I’m doing my best (best of my insufficient abilities) to educate others on the value of bitcoin.

To continue to answer your question, as best I can. While the transaction is sitting as pending in your bitcoin address and we awkwardly chit-chat about the weather to pass the time. A network of computers called nodes which are responsible for keeping the entire distributed ledger from alpha to omega (called full nodes) are capturing and broadcasting the transaction across the network so it shows up on every participating node’s ledger. Miners receive these new transactions broadcasted by the nodes and compile them into a 1 mega byte block of data. Think of it like a doorman at a bar; if I roll up with my brand-new transaction with a crisp hundy in my hand the bouncer (miner) is probably going to let me in the packed bar (or rather the next block) right away. If I’m my frugal self and would rather stand in the cold for an hour or two waiting for my almost free entry than pay off some overgrown gorilla, well that’s more or less the state of fees and delays in bitcoin right now. The block is then mined which is to say the miners attempt to solve a random, arbitrary cryptographic puzzle called a hash where the only possible solution is raw brute force guessing. Once successful a reward of bitcoin is issued by the protocol which is how just about every bitcoin that’s ever existed came into creation. This protocol can only ever issue $21 million full bitcoins, but those coins can be fractioned to a hundred millionth which has respectfully been called a Satoshi after the creator. This new version of the ledger is broadcasted by the nodes and eventually your wallet runs a protocol to check the ledger and verifies the transaction is mined into permanency and it changes from pending to confirmed. If we understand and trust the protocol we don’t have to wait for it to confirm, especially for minor transactions.

Anyhow, hopefully my explanation has well represented my claimed 40% understanding of the system. In summary this process ensures scarcity of supply, energy and computational power required to create circulation, decentralization (no singular entities control any component of the bitcoin network), permission-less, and certainty of my transaction without relying on a trusted 3rd party like VISA. There is still so much more to it though, for example like how the protocol adjust the hash difficulty based on the time taken to solve the cryptographic puzzle, complicated forms of multi-signature addresses to create escrow or smart-contracts. Segregated witness and the lightening network to create off-chain (ledger) transactions which could allow for 0 or minimal fee micro-transactions at will. Honestly the well of this technology is ****ing deep I can read for months to catch up on the last decade of development, then just keeping on top of it’s rapid development is challenging. Thing is just like I don’t really know what complex system of distribution or encrypted VISA uses, I don’t need to know all this stuff to own and participate in bitcoin, I just like to know it.


3. Right now, there is probably more like thousands of crypto assets being identified by aggregating websites or trading on exchanges. A lot of money in crypto assets are chasing these speculative tokens. Funny enough, a large phycological barrier to bitcoin is our interpretation of quantity. I observe a lot of people chase the next bitcoin alternative because they can buy some other crypto asset for .10 CAD a token and have thousands or millions of them vs a single solitary bitcoin. This ties back into language, remember how I said we speak dollars? Well, our language doesn’t assign significant value to fractions of a dollar. It’s actually super powerful psychology and as analytical as I try to be I still feel warm and fuzzy when I have a million of something because that’s my language too. This will probably be addressed soon enough as there are a number of ideas floating around that bitcoin participants should start referring to the coins as Mbit (milli) or μbit (micro), but like anything in bitcoin-world you can’t just decree it so. It must be adopted and accepted through community consensus. Anyway, back to speculation I’m not above this speculation as I believe there are various roles this technology can play in improving societal systems that are not addressed by bitcoin, but I’m very selective and I don’t think any will do as good a job as a store of wealth or medium of exchange as bitcoin does now or will in the future. It’s key that I say in the future, because a lot of speculators don’t realize that bitcoin since inception has undergone hundreds of protocol improvement proposals adopted through consensus or creation of a protocol fork. Hopefully that answers your question about why I think bitcoin more than anything else will survive and provide a utility.


4. I think I may have already answered this a bit in .2, but to clarify further. I believe bitcoin is more secure than even a trusted national currency because of the certainty of the protocol I poorly described earlier. I don’t have to trust any 3rd party, I trust in the security of the protocol. Even more-so because bitcoin is not subject to any nation’s legislation, or direct influence (short of being a participant, see my earlier reference to whales). If I secure my private keys (or master key) correctly, I have absolute control over my bitcoin. Comparatively I only have access to my CAD because my Government acting through my Banking institution grants me permission with the exception CAD expressed in physical cash. Cash is still permission-less, but how often do we handle cash on daily basis anymore? Pretty rare for me anyway. My CAD privileges can very easily be suspended, limited or garnished. For example, the ex-wife that I don’t yet have and hopefully never will can’t access my bitcoins for alimony because it’s not part of a Government controlled system.


5. We’re currently seeing this regulatory concern play out between China, Japan and Korea right now. Japan currently recognizes bitcoin as legal tender. China seems bent on banning. Korea is unsure, but concerned. Japan, probably advised by the historical failure of it’s isolationism, imperialism and the lost economic decade would understand the value of embracing a new technology with the potential for unprecedented disruption of all sorts of economic and societal constants. Japan has the right play, and in the process will likely increase their GDP and clout on the world stage. This massive wealth transfer is looking for a safe home to develop. I wish our Government would have such incredible foresight, but I don’t think it’s in the cards, short of a Canadian, centralized, permission-able national crypto currency being issued. To more directly answer your question, yes attempts at banning are likely and will reduce adoption and likely it’s translated value, because good people don’t want to be criminals. With that said, anyone with a Kodi box in their living room can probably attest to how successful Government’s have been banning the free distribution of copyrighted media. Bitcoin is built on the shoulders of torrent, peer to peer technology.


6. This question is easier, adoption with the potential of necessity. I can’t ignore my friend speculation though and he will continue to play a role in volatility until necessity comes calling (if it comes). The value translation into CAD and USD will continue to change rapidly. I don’t know what the result of Canada’s 650 billion dollars of debt or more concerningly USA’s 20 trillion dollars of debt will be. Honestly, I don’t know that we can’t just keep racking up debt forever and carrying-on, maybe we can. If we can’t, well I sure do like having a viable tool that opts-out of that potential catastrophe should it ever come to pass.

[ehrgeiz]

Thanks to those trying to explain the bitcoin concept to us oldies but regardless of rationale, I suspect there won’t be much “old” money jumping on board. The idea “mining” brings back memories of BreEx:)

That’s okay man, all things in due time 😊. I’d compare it trying to explain to a 25-year veteran cab driver in 2010 that 5 years from now the livelihood he’s enjoyed is going to be significantly disrupted by something called Uber and Lyft. I’d bet bitcoin to donuts he’d laugh and dismiss it as a bandit cab and comfort himself with the thought that the Government would never allow it. We know how that worked out, remember, these technologies aren’t asking for permission.

[HyperMOA]

1. It’s not that I dislike FIAT currency, I get my pay cheques in it just like every other Albertan, well most anyway. ........ I don’t know what the result of Canada’s 650 billion dollars of debt or more concerningly USA’s 20 trillion dollars of debt will be. Honestly, I don’t know that we can’t just keep racking up debt forever and carrying-on, maybe we can. If we can’t, well I sure do like having a viable tool that opts-out of that potential catastrophe should it ever come to pass.

Sorta shorted your quote. Thanks for that reply, I didn't mean to force you into an essay. I have a few more questions.

In the case of a global FIAT currency collapse, what do you feel your bitcoin will trade with? Will you trade bitcoin for chickens, because you obviously won't trade for say USD? Furthermore, if there was some kind of global economic catastrophe; once the smoke settled and the world is trading whatever they determine is currency; don't you think bitcoin would be relegated as obsolete too. If its trading in FIAT currency now, why would it be considered different if we returned to a gold standard? Or trade in chicken feet, or what have you.

As for zombie apocalypse I agree that land, water, bullets and gold will all have bartering power. In the case of a zombie apocalypse how would you ever access your bitcoin and why would you value it over physical gold/silver?

Why would countries adopt bitcoin (or other crypto) instead of them all making and releasing their own cryptocurrency?

Why do you feel safer with Bitcoin over a FIAT currency? What safety does decentralizing afford you? It seems like this generations Swiss bank accounts to me, more than anything else.

I am genuinely interested, I just don't have the time to investigate it myself, and by the sounds of it, I wouldn't have time to learn the smallest amount about it.

[ehrgeiz]

Sorta shorted your quote. Thanks for that reply, I didn't mean to force you into an essay. I have a few more questions.

In the case of a global FIAT currency collapse, what do you feel your bitcoin will trade with? Will you trade bitcoin for chickens, because you obviously won't trade for say USD? Furthermore, if there was some kind of global economic catastrophe; once the smoke settled and the world is trading whatever they determine is currency; don't you think bitcoin would be relegated as obsolete too. If its trading in FIAT currency now, why would it be considered different if we returned to a gold standard? Or trade in chicken feet, or what have you.

As for zombie apocalypse I agree that land, water, bullets and gold will all have bartering power. In the case of a zombie apocalypse how would you ever access your bitcoin and why would you value it over physical gold/silver?

Why would countries adopt bitcoin (or other crypto) instead of them all making and releasing their own cryptocurrency?

Why do you feel safer with Bitcoin over a FIAT currency? What safety does decentralizing afford you? It seems like this generations Swiss bank accounts to me, more than anything else.

I am genuinely interested, I just don't have the time to investigate it myself, and by the sounds of it, I wouldn't have time to learn the smallest amount about it.

I dunno man, I don't have all the answers, but strikes me that national digital crypto assets are likely to phase out cash. Gradually or dramatically. A cash crash isn't the end of the world, it's just the largest wealth transfer in history. If I was a Government buried in debt, what better way to rid ourselves of it then devalue it and create a new nationally issued currency. If the dollar is worth pennies and the Loon-coin (haha) is worth a dollar you can pay back a trillion dollars debt a lot easier. That does seem a bit far fetched, but not outside the realm of possibility. Seems like it's already well underway when you see how much inflation we've experienced in the last decade or so. We're all still going to want all the goods we can produce nowadays, call it chicken feet, video-games or quads. Some form of currency will fill the gap and it's almost assuredly going to be crypto based.

I'm not really thinking or worried about some future dystopia, bitcoin and most things for that matter won't be useful there.

As noted before and above I'm more confident that nations will issue crypto currency. I suspect Bitcoin will always have a place as an alternative store value / medium of exchange.

To me decentralization means it can only be manipulated through participation. Thinking of this in terms of a simple foreign bank account for tax shelter is very short sighted. In my earlier post I talked about commerce of 7 billion people, but that doesn't consider the fact this tech, for the first time in history will allow machines to participate in wealth accumulation and ownership. Anyone or anything that owns the key, owns the coin.

Check out the following article I spotted in the BOE this morning. Looks like an AB based O&G is going to try and use it's resources to generate electricity and mine crypto more efficiently. Kind of a neat idea, hopefully it's successful. I might retract my previous statement about Canada not having the foresight to create a home for this tech. Would be better to house the actual development of the tech, but then again Canada has always done the heavy, resource extraction lifting for the world economy.

https://boereport.com/2018/01/22/cryptocurrency-mining-operation-launched-by-oil-and-gas-producer-iron-bridge-resources-2/

I also saw something about Quebec looking to attract miners as well due to cheap electricity.

[jungleboy]

https://magazine.theweek.com/editions/com.dennis.theweek.issue.issue857/data/57584/index.html

Why the Bitcoin bubble will burst
Matt O’Brien

The Washington Post

“There are bubbles, there are bad investments, and then there’s Dogecoin,” said Matt O’Brien. A joke digital currency created in 2013 in homage to Shiba Inu dogs, Dogecoin was never meant to be worth anything. But because the financial world has cryptocurrency mania, thanks to Bitcoin, Dogecoin was recently valued at $2 billion. If you need more proof that digital currencies “might be the biggest bubble in history,” consider Tron, the cryptocurrency “that’s valued at over $7 billion even though it doesn’t actually exist.” Then there’s Dentacoin, the $1 billion digital currency you can only use at the dentist’s office. If none of this makes sense, “don’t worry: You’re normal.” Few people foresaw a year ago that Bitcoin’s market value would go from $15 billion to more than $225 billion—and following a dramatic slide this week, even fewer people think it will last. After all, it’s a payment system that still works so poorly, people “won’t even accept it at an upcoming Bitcoin conference.” So what’s going on? It’s “the same thing that happens any time a new invention promises to change our lives: We go nuts.” Technological breakthroughs simply “cause a temporary separation from our rational selves.” Digital currencies are “no different.” Everyone knows it’s nonsense, “but everyone thinks they can be the second-to-last person to sell” and make a killing. “It’s a fun game until the music stops—but it will. It always does.”

[ehrgeiz]

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/page/13/

^ Apparently Bitcoin's bubble has been waiting to burst since it was valued at $0.23 USD. Followed by 245+ the end is nigh articles as the price has grown over the years.

I'd have to agree though, some of the money that has been dumped into alt coins, even ones with no stated purpose, or better yet directly stating they have no purpose is pretty bizarre to say the least. As I mentioned previously I only own a very few select alts. With that said, who knows maybe DogeCoin will be a collectible in the future, they do have a majestic mascot going for them! After all why is a stupid baseball card or hockey card worth hundreds of thousands to some people?

http://dogecoin.com/imgs/dogecoin-300.png

[bdub]

For those that have made money on the asset, congrats. For those that cannot afford to loose their capital, a few thoughts, comments and predictions.

The security of holding. About 14 percent of the big digital currencies have been lost to hackers with no recourse to the “investors”.

Several governments have banned the the trade in crypto currency and the trend will continue as governments worry about tax evasion, and money laundering, the link to crime.

No large governments are going to allow another form of “currency” to compete with their control of economic activity through their own central banks. (The US government made it a criminal offence for its citizens to hold or trade gold for several decades starting in the 30’s.)

The vast amounts of wasted energy consumption will draw increasingly greater moral backlash. (Crypto mining consumes enough power to run a country the size of Ireland.)

Governments will want their cut of the gains. This trend will also continue. The tax collector cometh.

Other thoughts.

Never underestimate the madness of crowds and how high something of no real value or earnings power can go based on the enthusiasm of the masses. “It’s different this time”, is the mantra of the cult of true believers. But it is never different. History is full of examples of manias. Manias in tulip bulbs, land in Florida, dot.com stocks, the Japan real estate and stock market bubble and bitcoin. When a company can change its name to include Blockchain in the label and the stock rises beyond all logical reasoning (long island ice tea now known as long blockchain) or when a former gold exploration company turns to mining crypto (hive blockchain) you know things are going haywire. It may continue upwards for a while as greater fools afraid of missing out buy from former fools. With no earnings and nothing to back it up it is only a matter of time before the remaining fools start heading for the exits. The bad thing about bubbles is that the generally hurt the people who can least afford the loss and taken to their extremes can affect and even bring whole economies to their knees, hurting everyone. Such is human nature and our brains hardwired response to fear and greed. The bitcoin or marijuana bubble wont be the last bubble humanity will see. There will always be another get rich quick scheme to fleece money from the unwary and unwise.

From Goldman Sachs in a note to private clients.
“The price moves in cryptocurrencies and in the share price of companies with new cryptocurrency or blockchain affiliations remind us of a comment by a Dutch historian, Theodorus Schrevelius. He wrote, in 1648, 11 years after the collapse of tulip prices, that ‘our descendants doubtless will laugh at the human insanity of our Age, that in our times, the tulip flowers have been so revered.

[ehrgeiz]

Always good advice on investments, if you can't pay your mortgage or rent, if you have to take out a loan to invest, don't do it. Earn more money or save better to ensure your financial stability first, then play with the excess.

Having your private keys stolen is an issue, but it can largely be mitigated by not storing your bitcoin or any other asset on an exchange for any significant length of time. Doesn't matter how long the exchange has been around or how much you trust them, it's a bad idea until the tech develops further or insurance becomes a component of these exchanges. Order a Trezor or a Ledger hardware wallet directly from either manufacturer. Those 2 steps will pretty much give you absolution that your crypto assets are safe. The large majority of thefts have resulted from exchanges being hacked.

Hard to say what will happen with the Government and bitcoin. Opposition at some point seems likely, especially if it becomes as significant tax shelter. Actually stopping it though, I think will be impossible. Even if the G8 coordinated to ban bitcoin in a uniform way which seems unlikely, the reach wouldn't be enough. How well did the war on drugs work? And that's a physical substance that needs to be smuggled. You also have to consider that a bot could now be programmed with machine learning protocols and pre-loaded with bitcoin. The bots program could be to purchase mining or node equipment with bitcoin and purchase rack space and power all over the world for the equipment and run micro-mining units without any human intervention.

Electricity consumption does seem to be a growing concern. What's interesting though is that electricity is not a non-renewable resource and efficient storage of excess electricity can be a challenge for producers looking to balance supply and demand. On site mining at electrical generation plants could actually help hedge supply and demand of power. That opportunity to ramp up mining in times of excess electricity could allow for more stability of revenue and in turn capital investment in power generation infrastructure. Most also don't realize the bitcoin protocol adjusts the cryptographic problems difficulty based on how fast the puzzle is solved. Right now we're in a bit of an electricity and hardware arms race because it is so profitable, but once all coins have been mined the transaction fees may not provide enough incentive for capital investment and you may see a leveling off of consumption. This likely won't occur for many decades though.

The mania and bubble comments are fair, but I would suggest that the dollar is also in a bubble where it's value is being artificially propped and it's not subject to the full force of the free market. Bitcoin is only manipulated through participation and is entirely exposed to a global free market with a permission-less participation opportunity. My opinion is that we don't have the right lens to glass this thing yet. For sure though a lot of speculators are going to lose big on the alt coins, but others will make it big.

My thoughts on Goldman Sachs,

Sep, 2017 - CEO Jamie Dimon says "bitcoin is a fraud"

Dec, 2017 - Goldman Sachs announces intent to setup a digital asset trading desk in 2018 for bitcoin and other crypto's

Jan, 2018 - CEO Jamie Dimon says "I regret calling bitcoin a fraud"

Oh and as far as institutional trust goes, how many times has that firm been charged with fraud and how many billions have they had to pay in fines? Less than they've made defrauding clients is the answer to that query. Even if you trust the crooks, they're not going to recommend something they can't sell to their clients yet.

Anyway I don't mean to be bitcoin's knight in shinning armor here, it could all fail for reasons we haven't even considered. I just don't think it's going to happen and most of the death knells I see put forward by skeptics don't hold enough water by my analysis anyway.

[Arty]

I dunno about some of those postings.

People constantly invest on borrowed money. It's called 'margin', where they get credit for other stuff in the accounts. As another working example the average of a half-dozen high-dividend US stocks like 'O', 'OHI' or 'UNIT', or some preferred shares will create a 8 to 9% pre-tax cash flow consistently. If you take advantage of small amounts of loans offered by revolving consumer credit or bank's special deals which are based on a very good credit rating or some LOC you can snag a low enough interest rate for a consistently positive return. But you have to do it with your eyes wide open, like a business. There's nothing 'playing' about it.

I'm also curious about how people lose cryptocurrency. The currencies I know of utilize a combination of private and public keys ( with the dumb name of 'wallets') which should be kept on your computing machinery in encrypted storage pools. I believe bitcoin's are themselves encrypted, so you've got double encryption going on. Just don't forget your passwords, and back those up on off-site storage. All crypto money of course is always resident in the blockchains themselves, never anywhere else, whether in your name or some exchanges name. Best to always keep it in your own name ('account') except when queued for exchange to some other coin.

Governments can't and won't control major bitcoins; that's part of the design. But they will control conversion between crypto and fiat, and attempt to control conversion between cryptos for tax purposes by keeping a noose around the neck of bit exchanges. As long as there is no connection between your identity and your account number that sneaky government programs can deduce, you're golden.

What governments might do is mandate use of centrally-administered, non-anonymous blockchain currencies. Considering the millions of nincompoops putting all their private information on facebook for the world to see, I doubt the vast majority could care one whit about the government knowing who spent what at where.

Electricity base loads are strongly based on non-renewables in most parts of the world. Even where renewable sources are used, the infrastructure for it has to be manufactured using non-renewables. The energy input to build and sustain the system is always greater than what you can get out of it using windmills, tidal power, or solar panels.

From driving the trucks that carry oil feedstock to petrochem plants and factories that manufacture wind rotors, to mining rare earth metals for the electronics to regulate voltage and current from microcells to the main grid, to running the smelters and wire factories for transmission cable from James Bay, it's by far based on non-renewables. There's a lot more to it than running some windmills to power up your laptop so your can read facebook.

And drawing huge amounts of power for crypto mining at off-peak hours, to rationalize and subsidize building base generation capacity high enough for any foreseeable peak consumption, is nuts.

The dollar itself is anything but in a bubble. In the last century, it's purchasing value has dropped 99%. Central banks and large capital holders are doing their level best to maintain inflation, essentially a tax on the working class, to maintain their position in society and to perpetuate the global financial system as we know it. It needs 2-4% inflation every year to pay interest on all collective debt. The gold standard in fact was abandoned by Nixon to enable accelerated fiat inflation, otherwise impossible when the dollar is tied to gold.

[bdub]

Not to nit pick but Jamie Dimon is JP Morgan, Lloyd Blankfein is Goldmans. But I get your point.

The banks like the idea of trading anything, they are just out to make a buck on the trade in every way they can. Jaimie Dimon was quick to talk, now he is thinking opportunities?

The participation of financial institutions in the trade says nothing about the value of the underlying asset, whether it is cryptos or dot com stocks, or tulip bulbs in the 1600’s. Fundamentals eventually matter. The promotion of dot.com stocks or mortgage/derivatives trading that caused 2008, had the banks all over it, as they have had in every other bubble in history.

Greed is one of our worst attributes, it prevents people from seeing and thinking about things rationally. During the tulip craze people thought a single bulb could be worth many years wages of a skilled craftsman. People were so blind with greed that they could talk themselves into believing the price they paid and the value of that bulb were the same. Eventually reality surfaced, and people realized it was just a damn tulip bulb. Some traded everything they had for a flower. I don’t see crypto’s much differently than the tulip bulb, the only thing keeping its price is someone else’s willingness to buy into the idea and trade it. But I could be wrong. Bull and bear side of everything

If you have capital you don’t need and want to take a long shot on cryptos, it’s a fine idea. Why not? If you are someone who really cannot afford to loose their capital....thats different. Navigating personel finances is tough enough for anyone. The world is full of scams, fraud, and self serving, lousy, unprofessional and sometimes outright criminal people and products to help you with your money. Be careful and don’t make the mistake of confusing speculation with investing is all I am hoping to share.

[ehrgeiz]

^
Haha yep, and I know folks who have lost of lot of money and put themselves in dark places playing on the margin. I would suggest it should never be done, but everyone has their own appetite for risk. Mine is marginal (haha), I'm not interested in becoming a degenerate gambler.

Agreed on holding crypto, Government limitations and the high probability of a state crypto currency being issued.

I think you're misunderstanding my point about electricity. The non-renewable infrastructure is already in place and surplus electricity exists and the concept of creating demand for it through mining is not nuts, it's occurring right now. See Quebec Hydro's intent to supply it to the bitcoin mining industry and their subsequent follow-up release saying they've been inundated with response and clarifying they can't service everyone.

I suppose I should have said credit bubble, but we're talking about the same thing here. Though let's not lament the abolishing of the gold standard.

[ehrgeiz]

Not to nit pick but Jamie Dimon is JP Morgan, Lloyd Blankfein is Goldmans. But I get your point.

The banks like the idea of trading anything, they are just out to make a buck on the trade in every way they can. Jaimie Dimon was quick to talk, now he is thinking opportunities?

The participation of financial institutions in the trade says nothing about the value of the underlying asset, whether it is cryptos or dot com stocks, or tulip bulbs in the 1600’s. Fundamentals eventually matter. The promotion of dot.com stocks or mortgage/derivatives trading that caused 2008, had the banks all over it, as they have had in every other bubble in history.

Greed is one of our worst attributes, it prevents people from seeing and thinking about things rationally. During the tulip craze people thought a single bulb could be worth many years wages of a skilled craftsman. People were so blind with greed that they could talk themselves into believing the price they paid and the value of that bulb were the same. Eventually reality surfaced, and people realized it was just a damn tulip bulb. Some traded everything they had for a flower. I don’t see crypto’s much differently than the tulip bulb, the only thing keeping its price is someone else’s willingness to buy into the idea and trade it. But I could be wrong. Bull and bear side of everything

If you have capital you don’t need and want to take a long shot on cryptos, it’s a fine idea. Why not? If you are someone who really cannot afford to loose their capital....thats different. Navigating personel finances is tough enough for anyone. The world is full of scams, fraud, and self serving, lousy, unprofessional and sometimes outright criminal people and products to help you with your money. Be careful and don’t make the mistake of confusing speculation with investing is all I am hoping to share.

Whoops, sorry had that mixed, between Goldman and JP, but yeah from the same cloth and all.

Agreed on all points. Clearly though, I think bitcoin will be more than a bubble, but as with everything time will tell.

[bdub]

I dunno about some of those postings.


I'm also curious about how people lose cryptocurrency. The currencies I know of utilize a combination of private and public keys ( with the dumb name of 'wallets') which should be kept on your computing machinery in encrypted storage pools. I believe bitcoin's are themselves encrypted, so you've got double encryption going on. Just don't forget your passwords, and back those up on off-site storage. All crypto money of course is always resident in the blockchains themselves, never anywhere else, whether in your name or some exchanges name. Best to always keep it in your own name ('account') except when queued for exchange to some other coin.




Not sure how it's done but it is a big problem with crypto. Over ten percent of ICO's disappear into the hands of thieves. Last night, Coincheck lost 500 million dollars worth of crypto to hackers, bigger than the Mt. Gox theft. NEM coins worth some 500 million and possibly some Ripple worth 110 million.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-26/cryptocurrencies-drop-after-japanese-exchange-halts-withdrawals

[bdub]

How is the pulse of the bitcoin bulls, hoping you guys aren't getting killed to badly.

India has strong words out of their finance minister regarding bitcoin.

“The government does not recognise cryptocurrency as legal tender or coin and will take all measures to eliminate the use of these cryptoassets in financing illegitimate activities or as part of the payments system,”.

Seems like the pressure is mounting on all cryptos. Is the end of this bubble in sight or is it just a bump in the road?

[wolf308]

.
All you'll ever need to know about Bitcoin, in less than 5 minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zIbVEjVpQ

Any questions? :acigar:
.

Hahahaha. A rig manager from work just semi retired , well quit the patch anyhow , selling his coin , made under a million I think.

Anyhow. Watched some more of that spiritual reading guy ...... lmao !!!! Watch the flat earth one and especially gun control one ...... hahahah

[Selkirk]

How is the pulse of the bitcoin bulls, hoping you guys aren't getting killed to badly.

India has strong words out of their finance minister regarding bitcoin.

“The government does not recognise cryptocurrency as legal tender or coin and will take all measures to eliminate the use of these cryptoassets in financing illegitimate activities or as part of the payments system,”.

Seems like the pressure is mounting on all cryptos. Is the end of this bubble in sight or is it just a bump in the road?

It's pretty much a scientific fact. All 'bubbles' eventually burst ... it's just a matter of time.

The smart ones, govern themselves according.


Selkirk

[2011laramie]

Wheres the bottom.

[Ken07AOVette]

ow $8441 CAD right now

[Sundancefisher]

There is a reason bitcoin plummeted 50% so far.


https://www.bitstamp.net/

interesting watching trading. Small little quantities. Curious what the daily trade volume is.

Anyways.

No backing of bit coin via underpinned assets or country. No accountability for bitcoin by anyone.

Talk about gambling your money away.

$6600 now.

[Ken07AOVette]

$6600 now.

I did not realize you were an American

[Ken07AOVette]

In 2 1/2 hours it has come up $560.00

[bdub]

Wheres the bottom.

Probably at or close to zero would be my guess.

Governments and the banking sector are increasingly turning against cryptos in unison. It is turning into a concerted effort to crush it and I imagine they will succeed. It may not totally disappear but it will definitely be crippled beyond any sort of meaningful recovery.

The Chinese government is the latest country to turn harshly against Cryptos. It's basically a no fly zone in China now, literally. They are going to wipe out all forms of it's use in that country basically.

Social media giant Facebook is even getting in on the anti crypto thing.

The cryptos along with the blockchain affiliated companies are pretty much going to disappear and in the process wipe out the remaining investors the stick it out till the end. Human nature never changes.

[trophybook]

The Rothschild family will sink all crypto. It's already in the works

[Ken07AOVette]

The Rothschild family will sink all crypto. It's already in the works

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

https://news.bitcoin.com/rothschild-investment-corporation-becomes-bitcoin-stakeholder/

Rothschild Investment Corporation and an Illuminati Conspiracy
There were also rumors that Rothschild Investment Corporation was related to the Rothschild family. In various social media posts, people thought there was some kind of conspiracy or deal that Rothchild himself made for gaining shares of bitcoin. The conspiracy theorists believe the Illuminati and lizard rulers may be colluding to sabotage bitcoin.

This turned out to be false, as the company has no relationship to the Rothschild family other than possessing its namesake. The tweets below should say “Rothschild Investment Corporation,” and not just Rothschild the person. The reason for confusion is clear, because the name is relatively common. Looks like the Illuminati are still waiting for their chance to enter the market.

[Jigger]

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

https://news.bitcoin.com/rothschild-investment-corporation-becomes-bitcoin-stakeholder/

Rothschild Investment Corporation and an Illuminati Conspiracy
There were also rumors that Rothschild Investment Corporation was related to the Rothschild family. In various social media posts, people thought there was some kind of conspiracy or deal that Rothchild himself made for gaining shares of bitcoin. The conspiracy theorists believe the Illuminati and lizard rulers may be colluding to sabotage bitcoin.

This turned out to be false, as the company has no relationship to the Rothschild family other than possessing its namesake. The tweets below should say “Rothschild Investment Corporation,” and not just Rothschild the person. The reason for confusion is clear, because the name is relatively common. Looks like the Illuminati are still waiting for their chance to enter the market.

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

You realize trophybook said the Rothschild family will sink crypto? And the second paragraph you quoted states the Rothschild investment corporation has no ties to the famed Rothschild family right? Lol cant make this stuff up, too funny.

[Ken07AOVette]

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

You realize trophybook said the Rothschild family will sink crypto? And the second paragraph you quoted states the Rothschild investment corporation has no ties to the famed Rothschild family right? Lol cant make this stuff up, too funny.

I do, hence the :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[JD848]

Bitcion value lets say 25000,one hacker the bitcion is worth nothing,all internet transfers and 99 percent of traders never use the same route,so this is just a big experiment on which monkey takes a bite .Then it will be something else just ask Bernie Madoff.
P T Barnum once said there's a sucker born every minute and with today's greed I think it's down to less than 1/4 minute.

Who ever is the best hacker will drive a nail into the end of the bitcion.

[Sundancefisher]

I did not realize you were an American

$6500 now.

In finance I track in US.

[bdub]

The top financial regulators in the US are meeting today to decide what should be done with cryptos in regards to regulating them. Could be positive or could be negative depending on what they recommend.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-05/cryptocurrency-rules-from-congress-sought-by-u-s-market-cops

[Weedy1]

...

[Ken07AOVette]

$9609 today

If I had bought 1 yesterday sold today I would have made $1168

:rolleye2:

[2011laramie]

Jeez, crypto is grabbin 2nd gear and taking off

[JD848]

North Korea is just hacken the heck out of crypto cash including the bitcion .the reason the usa fed reg's are having meetings,some one in one month took 530 million from certain buyers in japan of crpto currency .It was on last night's news.

North Korean cash flow is on the radar big time,he has over 1000 hackers going 24/7,the usa is watching who is transferring money after the sanctions put on them so he is short of loot so lets get it for free by stealing it by hacking,South Korea got hit hard and the usa will be meeting for a couple days on what to do.Who you going to run to for a cash back,it;s gone into one account then transferred to unknown place,also a good way to still do business with NK and not use a banking system.
Your next buy may be with one of NK's traders and then they encrypt a bug during the buy or sell and now your target.

We think our hunting is at stake over the media on the internet,i think the internet is the biggest threat to mankind and all the things that going on.

You can bet your life the usa is trying stop these hackers,but NK has them in china and all over the place in asia.The yanks will think nothing about stealing it back or join in on the party,china is.The usa has seized trillions of dollars belonging to others,why should this be any different.

[Ken07AOVette]

$10882 today

[Ken07AOVette]

$10010 tonite

[TBark]

Poor bugger here at work bought 2 coin, at $14k average ea.

TBark

[sjr]

Poor bugger here at work bought 2 coin, at $14k average ea.

TBark
There's a sucker born everyday

[Ken07AOVette]

$10486.00 this morning

[Ken07AOVette]

$10512 today seems to have settled in

[Ken07AOVette]

$12344.17 big jump

[bdub]

I find it interesting that the recent run up in bitcoin seems to somewhat be tracking the runup in US stock markets. The peak in the cryptos happened in December ahead of the markets meltup in January and subsequent correction we have had. Now cryptos seem to be rising right along with stocks. Stocks seem to be shrugging off higher yields and the short vol trade blowup, no doubt helped by the cash flowing back into the US thanks to the Trump tax plan. People are buying the dip as cryptos seem to be shrugging off increasing talk and calls for government intervention for now. (Big time influential investors are continuing to chime in about the folly of bitcoin and where it is heading in their opinions. Charlie Munger recently calling it a “noxious poison and asinine” and “our government's more lax approach to it is wrong. The right answer to something like that is to step on it hard.)

It will be interesting to watch if this bounce for bitcoin is just a blip before the next leg down, or if it continues to climb out of this hole and head back towards or above $20000. If we get further weakness in stocks will the cryptos will really sell off hard again? If stocks strengthen will cryptos enjoy a further short term run? Or vice/versa, as cryptos seem to be a leading a leading indicator for the general bullisheness in other risk assets. It will be interesting to watch how it plays out. Long term I think Charlie's probably got it right.

[newguy]

Mom said, "it's better to believe in God and find out there isn't one, than not believe and find out there is one".

I watched her loose nearly 3/4 of her retirement savings on the stock market due to a variety of reasons likely. She had her money with a large investment firm that controlled her assets and she lost big time.

One lesson we learned from that is don't have all your positions in once place. Diversification is our strategy when it comes to any type of investing, especially Crypto.

We only started with Crypto 3 months ago. I'm no expert and not computer savvy and frankly not a patient person. Fortunately for us, we have a friend who has a proven track record of success in Crypto. His 2 pieces of advice with Crypto are 1- don't put in more than you are willing to loose. 2- be patient.

It seems to me that Bitcoin has almost as many bad points as it does good points. Bill Gates said it's better than cash. Warren Buffet warns people to stay away, how do I decide???

With my moms "believe in God philosophy", we started investing in Crypto.

I'll tell you Bitcoin has been a bust, we got in small thankfully and are sitting at a 70% loss, ugh. But, with diversification, we have been vey successful with other Crypto. Many educated investors are saying it will climb again so we are holding on to it.

There are many other coins and ICO's to invest in. Without writing a book, I can say that after only 2 months, it's been awesome. We use a strategy I call 100%, 100% and play.

That means if we have a coin that doubles, we take back our initial investment. If it doubles again, we keep the next 100%. Then we play with the rest. Keep in mind we have already doubled our initial investment twice so the rest is a great bonus!

There are many reasons to avoid Bitcoin and Crypto and I see peoples hesitation and respect that. But our experience has been successful and We are glad to be part of it.

Lastly, my friend and mentor in Crypto is soon leaving his good paying job to start "mining" Crypto along with his investing strategies. He has partnered with another guy who has been mining for a few years and has excellent results. It's a little bold for us now but I'm anxiously awaiting his successes to see if it's right for me.

[Addy]

Diversify diversify diversify! Ethereum has had some of the best results for me. If you are investing into crypto just keep one thing in mind, when bitcoin crashes all the other alts (alternative coins) crash much harder, with exception to a few including ETH. So this is not financial advice, in fact stop reading right now if you listen to people online about investments, but what i do is get some money on a exchange (i use quadrigacx) and I patiently wait for a nice dip in bitcoin (usually 20-30% we consider a normal dip) and then i proceed to buy up alts. I stick with well known alts only with top ten market caps. Once bitcoin shows a solid recovery the alts usually rebound as well, some stronger then others. I’ve received great gains from this strategy, short term gains, the profits are used to buy up more long term coins like ethereum.

Good luck to all the gamblers :D

[Ken07AOVette]

$14,140 today

[2011laramie]

Its crashing again if you want to buy soon.

[Ken07AOVette]

$12,491 today

[bdub]

The criminal activity surrounding crypto and towards holders of cryptos is gaining more attention. Anonymity, one of the attractions of cryptos is becoming one of its biggest downfalls. It is an easy way to launder money and move the proceeds of crime and/or finance terrorism due to the difficulty in tracking transactions between parties. Criminal activity that are affecting individual crypto holders are also becoming increasingly common in the form of kidnaping and potentially violent robberies. They put a gun to your head and force you to transfer the crypto. Once the transaction goes through, the ability to follow it or get it back is slim. Something for the crypto wealthy to be aware of.

Its link to crime and its regulation was a hot topic at the recent World Economic Forum in Davos. That it is just a matter of time before western governments move on it was clearly telegraphed to the market Imo. Politicians and governments world wide are starting to understand the danger. How they regulate it and how soon they regulate it is the only question in my mind. Will they destroy the asset or allow it to survive in some form? Or will it survive and grow despite government regulation? Or will it collapse under the weight of its many faults?

[bdub]

$5900 USD/$8120 CAD today.
That was a stunning fall from almost $20000 in December. Any bulls left here?

[jtestorini]

$5900 USD/$8120 CAD today.
That was a stunning fall from almost $20000 in December. Any bulls left here?

Still falling, down to $7819 Canadian. I'm surprised that there were people out there that DIDN'T understand the bubble it was. It has no underlying value other than what people think it is.

At least gold, silver and other assets have an underlying value and are used in manufacturing.

[hagen1645]

$5900 USD/$8120 CAD today.
That was a stunning fall from almost $20000 in December. Any bulls left here?


i would advise not to invest in any crypto currency , Prices are dropping everyday ...

[Arty]

[...] due to the difficulty in tracking transactions between parties. [...]
Are you kidding? Do you know how blockchains work?

The whole thing is a long explicit record of every transaction made; essentially a very public, non-modifiable historic ledger. It's one of the most perfect transaction trackers ever devised, which can be read and copied by anyone, any time, at will.

[Grizzly Adams]

Seems like a worldwide Ponzi Scheme.

Tough part is going to hang this on someone in the end. Real banks are forecasting total collapse. But them what do they know?

Grizz

[Arty]

From an investment point of view, if you were hell-bent on getting into cryptos by buying it because you believed in it, this is starting to become the time to diversify into it a bit. Bad idea to do it at the very beginning, as there are tons of lottery gambles which won't pay off for the vast majority of new ideas. If you have a one in ten thousand chance to make ten thousand times your initial investment, you'd have to spend your whole life just chasing your tail to break even. And it's a bad idea to jump in at the big run-up(s), as you can't time the progression of those. And not at the peak(s) either as that's just stupid.

Crypto's been around the block a few times now, got beat up and had much of the speculative excitement wrung out of it. The get-rich-quick artists are moving out with their gains or losses, and there's a chance the fiat market price could settle down to something sustainable. If you really understand it, believe in it, and can see how all the bugs will be worked out of it.

However, I personally never believed in exchanging common fiat currency for crypto. All your crypto assets should [have] come from generating them yourself computationally. (Sort of like growing your own grain, instead of going out and buying several tons of it just to speculate on a potential price increase.) Then you could speculate between different cryptos if you want[ed]. Or if you got in early before the difficulty factor became prohibitive, you could have just permanently cashed out into fiat as it peaked.

It's way too late now to start actively 'mining' it though. That train has left the station.

I'll reserve my fiat money for companies capable of actually producing something which can generate a cash flow of more fiat.

[Gray Wolf]

.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlVwDuKIgAAGKGK.jpg


Judging by many of the posts here on this thread, there's a lot of Homer Simpsons
that lurk here on the AO! :lol:
.

[Sigg]

Gee, I wonder if the huge frenzy around the weed stocks are going to follow this exact same trend?:bad_boys_20:

The bigger the hype the farther you should run but that's never the case with the average fool with a few extra dollars to rub against one another.

[bdub]

Are you kidding? Do you know how blockchains work?

The whole thing is a long explicit record of every transaction made; essentially a very public, non-modifiable historic ledger. It's one of the most perfect transaction trackers ever devised, which can be read and copied by anyone, any time, at will.

Way out of context Arty. The authorities have had a hard time linking transactions with identities. The ledger is not anonymous, the identities of the parties in the transaction has been difficult or impossible to track.

[bdub]

Gee, I wonder if the huge frenzy around the weed stocks are going to follow this exact same trend?:bad_boys_20:



I think it's pretty much a certainty for most of them. Just a matter of timing now.

[ehrgeiz]

I'm certainly bullish on bitcoin. As I said in earlier posts in this thread the price will crash. I'm also confident it's value translated to fiat will surpass previous highs and the longer it takes the better.


Until then let me begin the eulogy again, dearly beloved we are gathered here today to celebrate the short life of bitcoin, again:

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

:)

[Jays toyz]

5700 today. Funny how those that post every increase don't bother commenting on the balloon popping. Let's see, if I bought in January, I would have made, let's see, carry the 1... Oh negative tons. Thankfully I didn't get suckered.

[Gray Wolf]

5700 today. Funny how those that post every increase don't bother commenting on the balloon popping. Let's see, if I bought in January, I would have made, let's see, carry the 1... Oh negative tons. Thankfully I didn't get suckered.

Yup !

The only question is, how low will she go?!

Hope the boys here who, as you say; "got suckered", didn't bet the farm. :(
.

[ehrgeiz]

5700 today. Funny how those that post every increase don't bother commenting on the balloon popping. Let's see, if I bought in January, I would have made, let's see, carry the 1... Oh negative tons. Thankfully I didn't get suckered.

It's strange to make a statement like this. Isn't it just as pointless to say if I had bought in June 2017 I would be up over 200+ percent today, thankfully I didn't get suckered out of not buying some.

Perhaps in 6 months it will be below June 2017 pricing, or maybe it will be relatively flat or anything in-between or beyond. Perhaps it will fail completely in some context. Generally speaking I can make these same statements about any investment vehicle; stock, real estate etc.

I think I've outlined why I'm positive on bitcoin long term in earlier posts and I'm still contributing to the thread. My position on it is certainly a speculative risk and hey I may very well be wrong, but I'm betting I'm not.

Curious, will you return to this thread if the fiat price hits $25,000.00 or something silly and lament your decision not to buy in January? :)

[urban rednek]

Someone plotted the bitcoin history through a sound generator. :sHa_sarcasticlol:
https://imgur.com/gallery/JDFeFgl

[CBintheNorth]

Someone plotted the bitcoin history through a sound generator. :sHa_sarcasticlol:
https://imgur.com/gallery/JDFeFgl

Too funny.
If you didn't remortgage to get in, that is.

[AJKing]

I'm very confident in the crypto future, in general. Sure, it's a sector in its infancy and there is a lot of learning still going on. Some projects that only exist to capitalize on the mania of 'blockchain' as a marketing buzz word will likely fail and disappear, but blockchain is here to stay.

I will say that I think a lot of 2017's big runs were driven by Chinese money being filtered through exchanges in South Korea. When SK clamped down on exchanges in the early days of 2018, one of the rules that they put to the exchanges was: You must be a SK citizen to have an account at a SK-based exchange. That immediately closed the doors on any Chinese laundering.

The two other things that I think were responsible for the parabolic run up late last year were:
1) FOMO - I think US Thanksgiving 2017 led to a bunch of families connecting for the holidays and many conversations where the young bucks in the family chatting and explaining cryptos to the old guard. Some bought in then, based on the young bucks' advice, while others didn't. BUT when they all connected at Christmas again a month later and those T-giving investors had made big gains during the previous 3-4 weeks, it convinced the old guard the give in to their 'fear of missing out'. When they were finally roped in, established/experienced crypto people started selling a couple weeks later and the already hesitant old guard saw that as a sign that justified their initial hesitation. They started panic selling us down to the current lows.

2) Tether - there's lots documented about Tether, but no proof of Tether messing around with the price of Bitcoin specifically. IF Tether was being manufactured out of thin air as some claim (again, unproven and refuted), then they could drive the price of Bitcoin up as much as they wanted with no real cost to themselves. Tether is supposed to be backed 1:1 to the USD, but if it isn't, then Tether (the company) could simply invent more Tether tokens, and use those to buy BTC at whatever price it's listed at.

I would blame the Mt.Gox trustee sales as a significant reason for Bitcoin's capitulation, starting late last year. I think he pummelled the open markets with just enough regularity to damage investor confidence (but it was an abnormal situation where he had to liquidate a lot of Bitcoin due to bankruptcy proceedings). I don't think this is much of a problem moving forward.

But really, it's been a fascinating year. Last year, I was up 1300-1400%. This year, I'm still in profit, but down substantially. Last year, I avoided Bitcoin almost entirely, favouring Ether and others. This year, I still don't hold any BTC at the moment, but I'm getting more interested in it (now that the Mt.Gox trustee account has been apparently liquidated). I see ETH as the questionable one at the moment. I'm diversified at the moment though, holding 7 or so different cryptos. I expect a few of them will take a year or two to mature significantly. I fully expect to be holding them for a long time, and probably picking up more as time and opportunity allow.

Volatility is where you make money.
When they stop being volatile, then the world will consider using them as currencies.

(Side note: Bitcoin is legal tender in a number of countries already, including Japan... so, the chances that it will completely disappear is almost non-existant. Ether is the basis for a number of other country coins, and it has MANY companies building applications on it, so it is not likely to disappear any time soon - though it has a tough road ahead of it. EOS (EOSIO) is an entire sandbox that is building out it's own ecosystem from a $4b+ warchest worth of development funds. It likely won't be disappearing anytime soon, though it could stand to get through its birthing pains faster, and get into its growing pains... lol.)

Anyway, aside from all of that, if you truly want to see what the hubub is all about and get a better understanding of cryptos and their potential, this is an awesome video showing Andreas Antonopoulos (one of the most educated voices in crypto) educating the Canadian Senate on both what it is and where it's likely to go - an exceptionally smart dude explaining it to people who are mostly ignorant on those fronts. It's long, and dense, but interesting if you care about this sort of thing and wish to be informed on the future. $1000 well-placed dollars these days could easily be your full retirement fund if you park it in the right projects.

https://youtu.be/xUNGFZDO8mM

[SammyS778]

I'm new to the crypto game, just gonna invest in a part of Bitcoin

[Grizzly Adams]

Seems like a worldwide Ponzi Scheme.

And the suckers are lining up. :lol: right up there with Derivative Futures.

Grizz

[JReed]

Bitcoin will never disappear, however, its value is significantly overpriced for something that has little to no utility and I would never invest in it. When I say no utlity, I mean the following:

-slow transaction speeds (1+ hours)
-High transaction fees ($20 last time I checked, depending on how much you buy)
- Bitcoin mining is terrible for the enviroment, high carbon emissions
- No longer decentralized (Miners own most of the available bitcoin)

There are a few other crypto’s out there that will eventually overtake Bitcoin because they provide a solution to every single one of Bitcoin’s issues I just listed. Those are the one’s I’ve invested in.

This is just my opinion, and this is not financial advise, do your own research.

[JD848]

First things to consider is what are my goals in investing in a shady money market and if I lose it all life goes on without that cash.

2nd Greed has taken down many a good person,so what is in life that is going to crank you over,is it money,loved ones,hurting yourself over a something you don't need to chase like the bitcion.

3rd If your in to much of a hurry to make it to fast and easy life has no goals ,but just a quick ending to a fast start with no meaning.

4th Setting your goals to a very high standard is very important both in work and investing ,so set them very very high and learn to walk before you run.Once your goals are meant there can be a very empty space within you,so don't rush it.So think hard on what it is your really after,hopefully not an empty space with no where to go but down.Money is just a tool for making ends meet,it won't buy you happiness or your friends and specially your health.

[AJKing]

Bitcoin will never disappear, however, its value is significantly overpriced for something that has little to no utility and I would never invest in it. When I say no utlity, I mean the following:

-slow transaction speeds (1+ hours)
-High transaction fees ($20 last time I checked, depending on how much you buy)
- Bitcoin mining is terrible for the enviroment, high carbon emissions
- No longer decentralized (Miners own most of the available bitcoin)

There are a few other crypto’s out there that will eventually overtake Bitcoin because they provide a solution to every single one of Bitcoin’s issues I just listed. Those are the one’s I’ve invested in.

This is just my opinion, and this is not financial advise, do your own research.


Normally I would agree, but I think it'll be the first to climb when money starts flowing back into crypto. Doesn't mean you have to hold it, or use it to do transfers and such... just swing trade it to capture the first gains, then dump those into alts and ride those up. That said, I currently am not holding any Bitcoin at the moment. (Which I'm sure I'll come to regret... lol)


@JD848 - I don't much care about the money side of things... that's the result of strategy (which in addition to being a part of world-changing technology) is why I play in crypto. My original investment has been pulled out at this point, so I'm just playing strategy games with my gains. :)

For new people starting out, definitely deep-dive the projects that you are considering. I've been caught up in a couple that oversold and underdelivered. While I gained in them against the dollar, I dropped against Ether... and depending on your ultimate goals, that might not be what you are after. Either way, I learned some lessons and thankfully, they ultimately only brought me losses in the way of unrealized profit, but I'm still in significant profit overall since I started in early 2017.

[Sundancefisher]

And the suckers are lining up. :lol: right up there with Derivative Futures.

Grizz

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/20/investing/bitcoin-prices-plunging/index.html

The fall is happening.

down under $5000 now.

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price/

[KGB]

The whole market is in a pooper! Look at tech stocks- they lost all yearly gains and some more!

[AJKing]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/20/investing/bitcoin-prices-plunging/index.html

The fall is happening.

down under $5000 now.

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price/


Yeah, $4500-ishUSD/6600-ishCAD at the moment.

There's a chance that much of this latest drop is more to do with people cashing out to spend some $$ on Black Friday sales and travel (US Thanksgiving is the biggest travel holiday for US citizens). And I'm curious if things are going to rise during, or right after the weekend. This year, the people who did NOT get in last Thanksgiving (and watched it hit $20k 4 weeks later) might be more inclined to get into it, especially because right now, the prices are pretty attractive.

Last Thanksgiving played out like I expected - Junior talking to the family about crypto, and those who were interested had to register for new accounts, so about a week after the holiday, the rise started. This year, I'm sure there will be some new accounts, but it's possible that we see a good bump from Thanksgiving into the coming weeks.

Personally, I wish had had a bunch more $ to dump into BTC and EOS at the moment. When they rise next time, they're expected to post new all time highs.

JMHO

[AJKing]

The whole market is in a pooper! Look at tech stocks- they lost all yearly gains and some more!

:lol:

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46501240_316786439157114_8915405392624746496_o.png ?_nc_cat=108&_nc_eui2=AeENaACi_grhrffQeTwhKSnzMFMRdI-K_57JB2cbEC9lYY6cPxaq3vUYdjl67wdJv6kOAzeUMjGjOkhRl rHAEw0mvIePCTYXwAxmw7pPFlxalg&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=0a3d5f25ee3fd79e8eb1560c43101682&oe=5C802B2F

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46516609_317013535801071_4477272392674050048_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeHuq0C3FKny0bG7oyvgQubqkfFYIz8l8QBlAY0DD kDyCeykUDmlpYakVL77NwOuKfS9kKCu5Q7AClXlkJZfJZMmNbR ZKtUVQJFObTb3goasdw&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=79da02c43965b00c53832ca2d007ad32&oe=5CB25095

[bdub]

The whole market is in a pooper! Look at tech stocks- they lost all yearly gains and some more!

Bitcoin has been a good leading indicator for the general market over the past year it seems. Back in last December we had the spike up in Bitcoin followed by the start of its big drop. Shortly after in January, the US market rallied hard before correcting, lagging the first big drop in Bitcoin. Then we spent the spring and summer kind of treading water in both Bitcoin and stocks. Now Bitcoin is really dropping hard and the markets are starting to follow along. Speculative excess is getting wrung out here, first in Bitcoin, now in the FANGS and the rest of the market.

[KGB]

Hmmm, interesting theory. I would never think of connecting the Bitcoin and stock market performance that way.

[Ken07AOVette]

$4532 today

[bdub]

Around this time last year alot of folks were scrambling to get in just at the peak. Chalk up about an 80 percent loss in a years time.

[Gray Wolf]

I can't believe this stupid thread of mine is still going :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Thank-you CryptoNuts! :47b20s0:
.

[Sundancefisher]

$4532 today

Now $3750 US

I believe history will show a phantom currency backed with nothing tangible will be nothing but a hope of some thinking they will get somerhing for nothing or believe the opposite of it is to good to be true then...

Plus what country wants this? The biggest beneficiaries of Bitcoin et al are cyber criminals.


Something to watch in 2019.

[AJKing]

Now $3750 US

I believe history will show a phantom currency backed with nothing tangible will be nothing but a hope of some thinking they will get somerhing for nothing or believe the opposite of it is to good to be true then...

Plus what country wants this? The biggest beneficiaries of Bitcoin et al are cyber criminals.


Something to watch in 2019.

"...backed with nothing tangible..." What is the dollar backed by? What about in 2008 when the banks collapsed, and people couldn't get their money out of the banks? Government issued fiat currencies haven't been backed by gold in decades. Government bonds maybe? But it being backed by government bonds means it's only supported if the bond has value, which is directly related to whether the country itself is doing well or not, and ultimately, that is using the peoples' money (tax money) to back a bond of the peoples' money - which is circular logic. And it's directly related to whether the government is functioning properly and in the best interest of its people or not (see Venezuela, Tanzania, the rest of the failed nation states in the world, etc...). When people (justifiably) have zero faith in their government, crypto becomes the currency of the people. You could argue that government fiat is backed by military might, but I prefer the idea of a currency that doesn't need to kill people to maintain its value.

"...what country wants this?" Crypto isn't made for countries, it is made for the people. Bitcoin specifically was made as a response to the governments of the world bailing out corporations instead of people in 2008. That said, Wall St is begging for regulatory framework so that they can jump into this sector, and the head of the IMF recently told the banks of the world to explore ways to get into crypto and utilize the underlying technology. And there are near daily patent applications by banks relating to crypto. Many countries are looking at making their own cryptocurrency to replace their physical fiat. Cash itself is becoming increasingly rare in the developed world anyway. Try withdrawing $10,000 from a bank in cash and you'll have to wait a few days, because the banks generally don't have it on hand to give you.

And crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin... 3.5 billion people in the world are unbanked (don't have access to banks, banking services, etc). Crypto will bring those people into a world economy that doesn't need banks (because a cheap cell phone with NFC can operate as a crypto bank capable of doing transactions), with currencies that aren't beholden to the meddling of governments that drive inflation through bad policy or antics, or centralized banks that just bilk the people by charging interest on each dollar they create, enslaving nations under mountains of debt that can never be repaid.

"The biggest beneficiaries of Bitcoin et al are cyber criminals." Sure, some users are criminals, but the percentage is FAR less than the percentage of criminals using cash. 80+% of physical dollars have cocaine residue on them. Pallets of cash get flown all over the world to be used to bribe warlords so that they will support resource wars by foreign governments, while ignoring what those warlords do to the locals. Cash, central banks, and governments have FAR more blood on their hands than Bitcoin does or ever will. Or real estate - the biggest method of laundering money in the world. If your moral stand against Bitcoin is that criminals might use it, then you probably shouldn't use cash, and never own property either. (Meanwhile, crypto has created millionaires and billionaires, many of whom have moved to Puerto Rico partly because of its tax break status, but also to help rebuild the island's infrastructure since governments have so miserably failed them after the storms ruined the pace a couple years ago. Crypto users tend to have a pretty altruistic intent. They're the people that see government misspending trillions while people starve, and they're choosing to try and do something about it, using technology.) Bitcoin isn't anonymous anyway, so anyone using it for criminal deeds is a fool.

There is a ton of value in cryptocurrencies, and even more in blockchain, to change the way the world works at a fundamental level. Personally, I'm excited by the idea that over half the world's population will be able to join the world economy; that cryptos are not owned by countries or central banks making them non-debt based currencies like fiat, and the idea that blockchain voting systems can make governance completely transparent and democratic while holding governments accountable.

At the risk of sounding rude, if sounds like you have been pretty misinformed by people with an agenda (mainstream news) or people who simply don't know what they're talking about, and I would encourage you to watch any YouTube videos you can on guys like Andreas Antonopoulos (or Vitalek Buterin, or Dan Larimer) to get up to speed on this sector before you miss out on one of the biggest revolutions since the Industrial Revolution or the birth of the Internet, because blockchain and crypto are potentially that fundamentally transformative.

Regulatory framework is coming to crypto which should level out the huge swings in the markets, and lead to more organic sustained growth. In the meantime, there is lots of money to be made in the volatility. I think it's a great time to buy into any of the top 15 projects. I'm sitting on my holdings for a couple years just to see where they go. Last year was 1400% gains for me. 2018 clawed a lot of that back. Market cycles suggest 2019-2020 will be bigger. Time will tell. :)

(And I'm someone who doesn't like Bitcoin. That doesn't mean I don't think it'll go up, but I don't currently own any. There are FAR better crypto projects out there in my opinion.)

[bdub]

"...backed with nothing tangible..." What is the dollar backed by? What about in 2008 when the banks collapsed, and people couldn't get their money out of the banks? Government issued fiat currencies haven't been backed by gold in decades. Government bonds maybe? But it being backed by government bonds means it's only supported if the bond has value, which is directly related to whether the country itself is doing well or not, and ultimately, that is using the peoples' money (tax money) to back a bond of the peoples' money - which is circular logic. And it's directly related to whether the government is functioning properly and in the best interest of its people or not (see Venezuela, Tanzania, the rest of the failed nation states in the world, etc...). When people (justifiably) have zero faith in their government, crypto becomes the currency of the people. You could argue that government fiat is backed by military might, but I prefer the idea of a currency that doesn't need to kill people to maintain its value.



"...what country wants this?" Crypto isn't made for countries, it is made for the people. Bitcoin specifically was made as a response to the governments of the world bailing out corporations instead of people in 2008. That said, Wall St is begging for regulatory framework so that they can jump into this sector, and the head of the IMF recently told the banks of the world to explore ways to get into crypto and utilize the underlying technology. And there are near daily patent applications by banks relating to crypto. Many countries are looking at making their own cryptocurrency to replace their physical fiat. Cash itself is becoming increasingly rare in the developed world anyway. Try withdrawing $10,000 from a bank in cash and you'll have to wait a few days, because the banks generally don't have it on hand to give you.

And crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin... 3.5 billion people in the world are unbanked (don't have access to banks, banking services, etc). Crypto will bring those people into a world economy that doesn't need banks (because a cheap cell phone with NFC can operate as a crypto bank capable of doing transactions), with currencies that aren't beholden to the meddling of governments that drive inflation through bad policy or antics, or centralized banks that just bilk the people by charging interest on each dollar they create, enslaving nations under mountains of debt that can never be repaid.

"The biggest beneficiaries of Bitcoin et al are cyber criminals." Sure, some users are criminals, but the percentage is FAR less than the percentage of criminals using cash. 80+% of physical dollars have cocaine residue on them. Pallets of cash get flown all over the world to be used to bribe warlords so that they will support resource wars by foreign governments, while ignoring what those warlords do to the locals. Cash, central banks, and governments have FAR more blood on their hands than Bitcoin does or ever will. Or real estate - the biggest method of laundering money in the world. If your moral stand against Bitcoin is that criminals might use it, then you probably shouldn't use cash, and never own property either. (Meanwhile, crypto has created millionaires and billionaires, many of whom have moved to Puerto Rico partly because of its tax break status, but also to help rebuild the island's infrastructure since governments have so miserably failed them after the storms ruined the pace a couple years ago. Crypto users tend to have a pretty altruistic intent. They're the people that see government misspending trillions while people starve, and they're choosing to try and do something about it, using technology.) Bitcoin isn't anonymous anyway, so anyone using it for criminal deeds is a fool.

There is a ton of value in cryptocurrencies, and even more in blockchain, to change the way the world works at a fundamental level. Personally, I'm excited by the idea that over half the world's population will be able to join the world economy; that cryptos are not owned by countries or central banks making them non-debt based currencies like fiat, and the idea that blockchain voting systems can make governance completely transparent and democratic while holding governments accountable.

At the risk of sounding rude, if sounds like you have been pretty misinformed by people with an agenda (mainstream news) or people who simply don't know what they're talking about, and I would encourage you to watch any YouTube videos you can on guys like Andreas Antonopoulos (or Vitalek Buterin, or Dan Larimer) to get up to speed on this sector before you miss out on one of the biggest revolutions since the Industrial Revolution or the birth of the Internet, because blockchain and crypto are potentially that fundamentally transformative.

Regulatory framework is coming to crypto which should level out the huge swings in the markets, and lead to more organic sustained growth. In the meantime, there is lots of money to be made in the volatility. I think it's a great time to buy into any of the top 15 projects. I'm sitting on my holdings for a couple years just to see where they go. Last year was 1400% gains for me. 2018 clawed a lot of that back. Market cycles suggest 2019-2020 will be bigger. Time will tell. :)

(And I'm someone who doesn't like Bitcoin. That doesn't mean I don't think it'll go up, but I don't currently own any. There are FAR better crypto projects out there in my opinion.)


In the 2008-09 financial crisis about 300 US banks failed. Zero Canadian banks failed. No individual depositors lost any money as deposits were insured. During the savings and loans crisis the States had thousands of banks fail. Not a good thing but the system has some failsafes built into it, both in the US and here to prevent depositors from loosing their deposits. Bitcoin et al has no such backing, it offers no insurance, no backing by any government. Holders have had entire fortunes of crypto stolen with no recourse. Cryptos value is tied to “nothing” literally, except the greater fool who is willing to pay more or less than the last fool.

No doubt the idea of blockchain has value in the financial world, but that is a far different thing than crypto. It is comparing apples to oranges. The technology is where the value lies to the conventional banking system, not the crypto. Its a complete scam.

If you are really worried about your deposits disappearing in a financial crisis there are far better places than crypto to store value. Buy some gold. At least that “currency” has a history of holding its value going back forever. Can’t really say that about crypto. Last year in December the suckers were out in full force before the pop. You can look back to the beginning of this thread as one small example. They were preaching it up everywhere back then as well. But who knows, time will indeed tell I guess.

[AJKing]

In the 2008-09 financial crisis about 300 US banks failed. Zero Canadian banks failed. No individual depositors lost any money as deposits were insured. During the savings and loans crisis the States had thousands of banks fail. Not a good thing but the system has some failsafes built into it, both in the US and here to prevent depositors from loosing their deposits. Bitcoin et al has no such backing, it offers no insurance, no backing by any government. Holders have had entire fortunes of crypto stolen with no recourse. Cryptos value is tied to “nothing” literally, except the greater fool who is willing to pay more or less than the last fool.

No doubt the idea of blockchain has value in the financial world, but that is a far different thing than crypto. It is comparing apples to oranges. The technology is where the value lies to the conventional banking system, not the crypto. Its a complete scam.

If you are really worried about your deposits disappearing in a financial crisis there are far better places than crypto to store value. Buy some gold. At least that “currency” has a history of holding its value going back forever. Can’t really say that about crypto. Last year in December the suckers were out in full force before the pop. You can look back to the beginning of this thread as one small example. They were preaching it up everywhere back then as well. But who knows, time will indeed tell I guess.

Right, the US banks failed and were given taxpayer money. So, the taxpayer is the guarantee for the corporations who looted their own customers. Yes, no Canadian banks failed - though they came close. (I'm curious how much of the $11b GM got from the Canadian government.)

The conventional banking system is garbage. Why should anyone care if they adopt crypto or not? Frankly, I kinda hope they don't. They're an unnecessary poison. I don't really want traditional finance involved in it at all, but there's no way they won't dive in as soon as they can. The BTC futures launch were a big factor in the craziness last December. But Tether is the biggest culprit in that run-up IMO.

The correct response would have been what Iceland did - fire and jail the politicians and bankers responsible, and rather than bail out the banks, the government took those taxpayer funds and paid off a bunch of mortgages for people. They had a very quick recovery because they put the blame where it should have gone and prioritized their people instead of corporations and politicians.

This is the very early days of crypto. Infrastructure is still being built out. Dapps are coming. If you're worried that the technology and the potential of each blockchain doesn't have enough value for you to buy into, then don't. That's your choice. :) I work in an I.P. based industry, so to me, ideas have value. Execution has even more value.

There hasn't been a lot of crypto holdings that haven't been recovered. Even the worst of them - Mt. Gox - saw people get holdings back, and while it might not have been 1:1 BTC for their loss:return, I'm pretty sure they got their cash equivalent back, at a minimum. I'm pretty sure the ETH DAO issue got returned through the first hard fork (and that wasn't an ETH issue, that was an external DAO issue... like an issue with Firefox that runs on Windows doesn't mean the issue is with Windows). Some ICOs have done exit scams, but it was pretty obvious if anyone bothered to actually look into the projects themselves that those were much higher risk.

Sure, gold and silver are good options. But no traditional market went up 1400% last year. ;)

[bdub]

Right, the US banks failed and were given taxpayer money. So, the taxpayer is the guarantee for the corporations who looted their own customers. Yes, no Canadian banks failed - though they came close. (I'm curious how much of the $11b GM got from the Canadian government.)

The conventional banking system is garbage. Why should anyone care if they adopt crypto or not? Frankly, I kinda hope they don't. They're an unnecessary poison. I don't really want traditional finance involved in it at all, but there's no way they won't dive in as soon as they can. The BTC futures launch were a big factor in the craziness last December. But Tether is the biggest culprit in that run-up IMO.

The correct response would have been what Iceland did - fire and jail the politicians and bankers responsible, and rather than bail out the banks, the government took those taxpayer funds and paid off a bunch of mortgages for people. They had a very quick recovery because they put the blame where it should have gone and prioritized their people instead of corporations and politicians.

This is the very early days of crypto. Infrastructure is still being built out. Dapps are coming. If you're worried that the technology and the potential of each blockchain doesn't have enough value for you to buy into, then don't. That's your choice. :) I work in an I.P. based industry, so to me, ideas have value. Execution has even more value.

There hasn't been a lot of crypto holdings that haven't been recovered. Even the worst of them - Mt. Gox - saw people get holdings back, and while it might not have been 1:1 BTC for their loss:return, I'm pretty sure they got their cash equivalent back, at a minimum. I'm pretty sure the ETH DAO issue got returned through the first hard fork (and that wasn't an ETH issue, that was an external DAO issue... like an issue with Firefox that runs on Windows doesn't mean the issue is with Windows). Some ICOs have done exit scams, but it was pretty obvious if anyone bothered to actually look into the projects themselves that those were much higher risk.

Sure, gold and silver are good options. But no traditional market went up 1400% last year. ;)

Not saying that our current banking system is perfect but it leaves a lot to be desired over what crypto has to offer so far. Adapting blockchain into the current system will do nothing to change systematic problems that occur. We are still going to have financial crises, and government bailouts in the future with or without blockchain technology. It is inherent in every financial system through out history. Just like we are always going to have bubbles like crypto, the tech bubble, the housing bubble and so on. It is a identifying feature of human trade and behaviour.

As for crypto theft, I think you have your facts wrong. So far not a single cent has been paid out to the losers in the Mt. Gox theft although the bankruptcy trustees are taking online claims against the remaining holdings "a few years after the theft." I couldn't find any evidence of crypto holders getting a cent back from any exchange so far. If you can point me to one that would be great. I would bet however that the amount that eventually gets paid to the victims of crypto theft, if any, will amount to pennies on the dollar.

No traditional market went up 1400%. Ok, so crypto had huge gains only to fall around 80% last year. To anyone that looks back into the history of bubbles, crypto was a perfect example. To me it looks very much like the internet bubble of 2000. Sure the internet survived and produced many successful companies. (Ask any investor in the broader Nasdaq index how long it took to get back to even after that bubble popped.) It fleeced plenty of investors as they pilled in during the euphoria and then, just as quickly, piled back out when the panic began. "Its different this time" is a common thought as these things get going, but it never is. They all end the same way. Most get killed while a handful make a mint on the backs of the suckers.

[Sundancefisher]

"...backed with nothing tangible..." What is the dollar backed by? What about in 2008 when the banks collapsed, and people couldn't get their money out of the banks? Government issued fiat currencies haven't been backed by gold in decades. Government bonds maybe? But it being backed by government bonds means it's only supported if the bond has value, which is directly related to whether the country itself is doing well or not, and ultimately, that is using the peoples' money (tax money) to back a bond of the peoples' money - which is circular logic. And it's directly related to whether the government is functioning properly and in the best interest of its people or not (see Venezuela, Tanzania, the rest of the failed nation states in the world, etc...). When people (justifiably) have zero faith in their government, crypto becomes the currency of the people. You could argue that government fiat is backed by military might, but I prefer the idea of a currency that doesn't need to kill people to maintain its value.

"...what country wants this?" Crypto isn't made for countries, it is made for the people. Bitcoin specifically was made as a response to the governments of the world bailing out corporations instead of people in 2008. That said, Wall St is begging for regulatory framework so that they can jump into this sector, and the head of the IMF recently told the banks of the world to explore ways to get into crypto and utilize the underlying technology. And there are near daily patent applications by banks relating to crypto. Many countries are looking at making their own cryptocurrency to replace their physical fiat. Cash itself is becoming increasingly rare in the developed world anyway. Try withdrawing $10,000 from a bank in cash and you'll have to wait a few days, because the banks generally don't have it on hand to give you.

And crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin... 3.5 billion people in the world are unbanked (don't have access to banks, banking services, etc). Crypto will bring those people into a world economy that doesn't need banks (because a cheap cell phone with NFC can operate as a crypto bank capable of doing transactions), with currencies that aren't beholden to the meddling of governments that drive inflation through bad policy or antics, or centralized banks that just bilk the people by charging interest on each dollar they create, enslaving nations under mountains of debt that can never be repaid.

"The biggest beneficiaries of Bitcoin et al are cyber criminals." Sure, some users are criminals, but the percentage is FAR less than the percentage of criminals using cash. 80+% of physical dollars have cocaine residue on them. Pallets of cash get flown all over the world to be used to bribe warlords so that they will support resource wars by foreign governments, while ignoring what those warlords do to the locals. Cash, central banks, and governments have FAR more blood on their hands than Bitcoin does or ever will. Or real estate - the biggest method of laundering money in the world. If your moral stand against Bitcoin is that criminals might use it, then you probably shouldn't use cash, and never own property either. (Meanwhile, crypto has created millionaires and billionaires, many of whom have moved to Puerto Rico partly because of its tax break status, but also to help rebuild the island's infrastructure since governments have so miserably failed them after the storms ruined the pace a couple years ago. Crypto users tend to have a pretty altruistic intent. They're the people that see government misspending trillions while people starve, and they're choosing to try and do something about it, using technology.) Bitcoin isn't anonymous anyway, so anyone using it for criminal deeds is a fool.

There is a ton of value in cryptocurrencies, and even more in blockchain, to change the way the world works at a fundamental level. Personally, I'm excited by the idea that over half the world's population will be able to join the world economy; that cryptos are not owned by countries or central banks making them non-debt based currencies like fiat, and the idea that blockchain voting systems can make governance completely transparent and democratic while holding governments accountable.

At the risk of sounding rude, if sounds like you have been pretty misinformed by people with an agenda (mainstream news) or people who simply don't know what they're talking about, and I would encourage you to watch any YouTube videos you can on guys like Andreas Antonopoulos (or Vitalek Buterin, or Dan Larimer) to get up to speed on this sector before you miss out on one of the biggest revolutions since the Industrial Revolution or the birth of the Internet, because blockchain and crypto are potentially that fundamentally transformative.

Regulatory framework is coming to crypto which should level out the huge swings in the markets, and lead to more organic sustained growth. In the meantime, there is lots of money to be made in the volatility. I think it's a great time to buy into any of the top 15 projects. I'm sitting on my holdings for a couple years just to see where they go. Last year was 1400% gains for me. 2018 clawed a lot of that back. Market cycles suggest 2019-2020 will be bigger. Time will tell. :)

(And I'm someone who doesn't like Bitcoin. That doesn't mean I don't think it'll go up, but I don't currently own any. There are FAR better crypto projects out there in my opinion.)

The Canadian Dollar is backed up by our economy and GDP. All open ad transparent. Bitcoin...nada.

If countries don’t want it then use is very limited. Failure to go mainstream is bad.

Non traceable currency transactions is for criminals. Everyone else don’t care. Look at the burgeoning cyber scams such as data hostaging. Without bitcoin it makes payment to release data far more difficult.

As for those who jumped on at $24,000 or $10,000 or $5,000 a bitcoin...wish you luck.

[urban rednek]

Dropping this here for continuity of the cryptocurrency discussion.
How does $250 million just disappear? (besides tax dollars wasted by government :angry3:)
For those that do not want to follow these links, here are the stories from the CBC site, minus the embedded hotlinks.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/quadrigacx-cryptocurrency-1.5005236

Canadian cryptocurrency exchange QuadrigaCX seeks creditor protection after founder's death
Canada's largest cryptocurrency exchange is due in court on Tuesday as it seeks creditor protection in the wake of the sudden death of its founder and chief executive in December and missing cryptocurrency worth roughly $190 million.

Vancouver-based QuadrigaCX says it filed an application for creditor protection on Jan. 31 and the Nova Scotia Supreme Court will be asked on Feb. 5 to appoint a monitor to oversee the proceedings.

In an affidavit, the widow of Gerald Cotten, Quadriga's founder, CEO and sole director, said he died suddenly on Dec. 9 due to complications from Crohn's disease.
Court filings show that after his death, Quadriga employees have been unable to locate or access roughly $190 million worth of digital money.

The company says in a statement that it has been trying to "locate and secure our very significant cryptocurrency reserves," for several weeks, but "unfortunately, these efforts have not been successful."
In Quadriga's legal filings it says it currently owes roughly 115,000 users $70 million in currency, plus an additional $180 million worth of cryptocurrencies, based on market prices in December — most of which can't be accessed.

Court documents show that Quadriga had been facing liquidity issues over the past year but a major issue arose in January 2018 when CIBC froze roughly $25.7 million of its funds held in the account of a third-party processor.

More to this story by Yvette Brend is a CBC Vancouver journalist.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quadriga-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-exchange-gerald-cotten-death-india-1.5002955
One of Canada's largest cryptocurrency exchanges has filed for creditor protection in Nova Scotia, leaving thousands of fearful customers with frozen assets and scant information.

This comes in the wake of financial and legal troubles with the five-year-old B.C.-based exchange platform — and news that its 30-year old founder, Gerald Cotten, died unexpectedly last December in India.

On Jan. 31, QuadrigaCX announced it had filed an application in the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia for creditor protection, after months of transaction delays.
Cryptocurrency leaders were shaken.

The volatile industry is already plagued by a lack of consumer confidence, said Dean Skurka, a vice president at Bitbuy.ca, a platform for buying virtual currency.

"This really highlights the need for the government to take action and regulate cryptocurrency exchanges," Skurka said in an interview from Toronto.
Bitbuy.ca president Adam Goldman said he met Cotten, Quadriga's founder, years ago in Toronto at the launch of the first bitcoin ATM.

"He was a quiet, serious guy with big plans ...an honest guy," he said.

Skurka said he was saddened to hear the company had devolved into a tailspin, and then tragedy.
Frozen funds

Troubles began when CIBC took legal action and froze almost $26-million of Quadriga's funds in early 2018.

According to court documents, the bank alleged that money from 465 deposits was held in accounts belonging to the exchange's payment processor, Costodian Inc., and owner Jose Reyes.

The bank alleged it was unable to determine who the money belonged to and began investigating.
Then, early this year, a post appeared explaining that on Dec. 9, Cotten had died while working in an orphanage in India.

Global Affairs Canada confirmed that a Canadian had died in India and they had provided assistance to the family but, under the Privacy Act, could offer no more.
Encrypted laptop

In an affidavit filed in B.C. Supreme Court as part of probate proceedings on Jan. 31, Cotten's widow, Jennifer Robertson, described trying to cope with corporate issues after Cotten's death.

She described people posting inaccurate speculation on social media about "whether he is really dead."

The affidavit said Robertson was left searching the couple's Nova Scotia home and Cotten's encrypted laptop for business records and missing coins.
She described hiring a security expert to help recover information about the Quadriga Fintech Solutions Corp. and several other associated companies Cotten had registered in B.C.

She said Cotten's companies had more than 115-thousand clients who had invested assets worth $70-million, which she estimates had grown to $250-million by December 2018.
As executor of Cotten's estate and owner of 43 per cent of the company's shares, Robertson filed a petition in civil court in B.C. on Jan. 22 describing a "rare and exceptional situation."

It said the company was left with no officers, directors or office space.

"Most of the business was being conducted by Gerry wherever he and his computer were located."

And then there were the locked digital wallets.
The wallets

Any user who wants to transfer bitcoin requires a wallet — located on a server.

So-called hot wallets are for live transactions — while so-called cold wallets are for storage to keep coins safe from hackers.

Robertson's affidavit says that assets tallied in those wallets show that Quadriga owes clients approximately $250-million as of Dec. 17, 2018.

But court documents say the company can only access "hot" wallets at this time.
Troubles blamed on banks

Nearly a year before Cotten died in December 2018, the company had legal trouble.

In January of that year, CIBC froze $26-million-worth of assets after finding irregularities with payment processing.

A 2018 Ontario Superior Court of Justice document says $67-million worth of transactions ended up improperly transferred into the personal account of Costodian Inc, the payment processor.

But Quadriga alleged the bank was wrong and only targeted the exchange because of mistrust of virtual currencies and called fears "that there must be shady dealings afoot" offensive and unsubstantiated.
Clients frustrated

All this caused delays.

Elvis Cavalic of Calgary said that he bought a few hundred dollars of bitcoin using Quadriga's platform.

When he tried to withdraw $15,000 in his account in October, he could not.

"This is a tough lesson learned. I would probably avoid [cryptocurrency] in the future," said Cavalic.

'"They've left us completely in the dark. I'm kind of preparing for the worst."

CBC reached out to lawyers for CIBC and Robertson for comment but did not receive a response by deadline.

[AJKing]

cryptocurrencies are completely safe they said

They are! LOL They know exactly where the cryptos are, they just can't get to them because they don't know the laptop password or the private keys to the cold wallets. :mad3:

Honestly, I've read the court petition regarding the stay of proceedings so that they can select new directors, and I've read the affidavit that requests creditor protection, and both of those seem like standard moves when a company is in this type of situation.

What is atypical is that a guy who was an early adopter of crypto (meaning he was in the sector likely because of his belief that decentralization is the future), would centralize the corporate custody to such an extent that he becomes the lone, weakest link himself, especially knowing that he had health issues and was travelling in a 3rd world country. He was in a right state of mind enough to update his will a couple of weeks before travelling, so I don't really buy the exit scam by Gerald Cotten theory.

As such, it leads me to believe that:
- Cotten is actually deceased (possibly through foul play)
- but it was someone else who took the opportunity to sit on the private keys in the hopes of pulling off an exit scam (the wife? perhaps... more likely some business associates)

Lots of crazy possibilities going on with this case,but what it comes down to is this:
- Ernst & Young are reputable and will dig deep
- RCMP will likely be involved
- the accounts can be monitored, so even if someone DOES have the keys, any transactions can be seen... and any movement there will be assumed to be either theft, or to be QCX having found private keys for the cold storage wallets and transferring assets to E&Y's control for post-procedings distribution

[HoytCRX32]

They are! LOL They know exactly where the cryptos are, they just can't get to them because they don't know the laptop password or the private keys to the cold wallets. :mad3:

Honestly, I've read the court petition regarding the stay of proceedings so that they can select new directors, and I've read the affidavit that requests creditor protection, and both of those seem like standard moves when a company is in this type of situation.

What is atypical is that a guy who was an early adopter of crypto (meaning he was in the sector likely because of his belief that decentralization is the future), would centralize the corporate custody to such an extent that he becomes the lone, weakest link himself, especially knowing that he had health issues and was travelling in a 3rd world country. He was in a right state of mind enough to update his will a couple of weeks before travelling, so I don't really buy the exit scam by Gerald Cotten theory.

As such, it leads me to believe that:
- Cotten is actually deceased (possibly through foul play)
- but it was someone else who took the opportunity to sit on the private keys in the hopes of pulling off an exit scam (the wife? perhaps... more likely some business associates)

Lots of crazy possibilities going on with this case,but what it comes down to is this:
- Ernst & Young are reputable and will dig deep
- RCMP will likely be involved
- the accounts can be monitored, so even if someone DOES have the keys, any transactions can be seen... and any movement there will be assumed to be either theft, or to be QCX having found private keys for the cold storage wallets and transferring assets to E&Y's control for post-procedings distribution

Are you saying then that the thousands of investors with frozen assets will recover 100% of them?

[AJKing]

No. But I sincerely believe that at least SOME recovery is possible with E&Y and RCMP involved.

I was being facetious... yes, those cryptos are 'safe' because they're locked away. So safe that they company can't even get to them.

Aside from that, the whole situation is a bit of a punch in the eye for crypto.

If the issue is that the cold storage keys are missing, that’s bad for investor confidence because it means that an error on behalf of someone else can ruin you in an instant.

If the cold storage issue gets sorted through somehow getting around the private keys, then it is bad for crypto because it shows that there is a security issue that can be exploited.

Either way, it's not great for the public's confidence in investing in crypto. Regulation of exchanges and proper on/off ramps for fiat would have fixed a lot of this stuff. The lengths that they were forced to go to (some of which I don't approve of), to operate as a business would have been much less controversial if they had an ounce of regulatory support. As much as mistakes were made inside QCX, I will happily dump a lot of blame on the hostile Canadian banking system and a government too stupid to see that this is a sector worth supporting above almost all others.

[CBintheNorth]

No. But I sincerely believe that at least SOME recovery is possible with E&Y and RCMP involved.

I was being facetious... yes, those cryptos are 'safe' because they're locked away. So safe that they company can't even get to them.

Aside from that, the whole situation is a bit of a punch in the eye for crypto.

If the issue is that the cold storage keys are missing, that’s bad for investor confidence because it means that an error on behalf of someone else can ruin you in an instant.

If the cold storage issue gets sorted through somehow getting around the private keys, then it is bad for crypto because it shows that there is a security issue that can be exploited.

Either way, it's not great for the public's confidence in investing in crypto. Regulation of exchanges and proper on/off ramps for fiat would have fixed a lot of this stuff. The lengths that they were forced to go to (some of which I don't approve of), to operate as a business would have been much less controversial if they had an ounce of regulatory support. As much as mistakes were made inside QCX, I will happily dump a lot of blame on the hostile Canadian banking system and a government too stupid to see that this is a sector worth supporting above almost all others.

So what are you gonna do with the $190 mil?:)

[AJKing]

So what are you gonna do with the $190 mil?:)

That $190m figure is in USD. It's actually $180m (CAD) in crypto assets, and $70m (CAD) in cash for $250m CAD total that is owed, last I heard.

Even when/if all of the missing keys and such gets sorted, the company still doesn't have enough to cover its client deposits (due to poor management, not a failing of the assets themselves). Quadriga has been playing catch-up ever since it lost $14m (CAD) in crypto in June 2017 due to a typo in some code. Then they got slammed by Canadian Banks. Then the bear market started and dropped the value of the corporate assets that they held internally. Then when they won their suit against the banks, they got cheques for their millions from the courts, but nobody will honour those drafts. Then Cotten died with the keys.

Basically, it's a perfect storm of mistakes, mismanagement, hostile banks, unfortunate events.

Ultimately, I think if it's a matter of getting through the encryption on the laptop in order to get the keys to access the funds, then I think that might just happen. If it's a matter of trying to crack the keys, forget it, all's lost (except for what remains in the hot wallets and the amounts that the drafts are written for because I'm sure those will eventually get cashed). Either way, apparently their total holdings don't cover their debts.

I'll be happy if I get some of it back, but I'm just really glad I didn't lose more than I did.

Personally, I still think that someone in the company knows more than they're saying. I do believe that Cotten may in fact be dead, but I also think that there's some hanky-panky happening behind the scenes, possibly with the payment processor (the one that QCX was working with, can't remember the name) side of things.

As a screenwriter, my mind has invented so many stories/theories around this:
- Cotten died, biz partners take funds but deny that they have any access.
- maybe someone learned that Cotten was the sole crypto keeper for the company because he got drunk one night and said as much to the wrong people and the nabbed him, tortured him for access, then killed him and they're just waiting for the right time to swipe all the assets
- maybe the Canadian banks heard that he was headed overseas and had him killed in retribution for QCX's precedent setting Supreme Court win, which effectively kills QCX, but does significant damage to the crypto sphere
- maybe his life was threatened and he's in hiding, faking his death, not to exit scam, but just to get off the radar until authorities can find the ones who threatened him
- maybe knowing the company is underwater, the new will he made before disappearing left all his shares to his wife, but also transferred crypto to a hidden wallet so that she could play out the media end of his disappearance and steer the investigations as needed (away from Cotten) and after a while, she'll join him with millions that was shaved off of what was possible to recover my the Monitor
- maybe knowing the company was underwater, Cotten simply couldn't manage the stress and in a weak moment chose suicide
- maybe he did exit scam and he's on his private island somewhere, under a new name, abandoning everything he had for a fresh start
- maybe his wife and him were at odds and she had him killed.

So many potential plausible theories... not saying any are true. It's definitely a crazy story at its core.

[pruhead]

I just want to make enough off crypto to buy a boiler for my shop.

This is the best time to buy , when its low and you sell when its high

[urban rednek]

Found this article on Bitcoin Exchange Guide, dated Feb. 24, 2019, the headline reads: "QuadrigaCX Had €400 Million Seized By Polish Authorities in 2018 For Money Laundering – Connections With Colombian Cartel"
It connects several cryptocurrency exchanges and a payment processor with potential ties to a Colombian drug cartel. Sounds like they have all failed...their investors are shocked. :thinking-006:
If this is true, it would help explain why the Canadian banks were hesitant to accept the $30M fund transfer that Ernst & Young recently pulled from QuadrigaCX's hot wallet: it could make them complicit in a drug cartel money laundering scheme.

If anyone is interested, here is the link: https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/quadrigacx-had-e400-million-seized-by-polish-authorities-in-2018-for-money-laundering-connections-with-columbian-cartel/

[lakerman]

Cable tv, cyber crime show, was just talking about how that 14 year old aka(soupnazi), hacked nasa, hired by cia, then was stealing credit card info. sell it to a dude in Ukraine, and he wires money back into those cyber wallets, this was going on like 10 years ago,,,,guess people need to look at history

[Ken07AOVette]

$10,218 today

I knew I should have bought at $4300 :mad0100: