Code red

[bobalong]

Be careful out there, my son just text me and Edmonton just went on Code Red......no ambulances available.

[Norwest Alta]

Be careful out there, my son just text me and Edmonton just went on Code Red......no ambulances available.

Any specific reason for this?

[Scottmisfits]

Not hard to imagine as to why. New Years, cold weather, slick roads, all leading to backlogs with hospitals and emergency services. I can only see it getting worse as the nights goes on.

[Norwest Alta]

Not hard to imagine as to why. New Years, cold weather, slick roads, all leading to backlogs with hospitals and emergency services. I can only see it getting worse as the nights goes on.

So no reason in particular other then New Year’s Eve?

[Scottmisfits]

And the extreme cold and the very slick roads and.......
Any number of things will be contributing factors. Pretty hard to narrow it down to one thing.

[wildbill]

So what exactly is a code red? There is varying definitions online but none seem to coincide with what the op is saying “mass casualties, child abductions, terrorist attacks, bomb threats” but no mention of cold icy roads, please advise:)

[Sundancefisher]

Don't see anything online. Anyone have a link confirming?

[RandyBoBandy]

Nothing on AHS :thinking-006:

[nube]

Be careful out there, my son just text me and Edmonton just went on Code Red......no ambulances available.

Nothing exciting here. Happens all the time. The system sucks to be honest. No reason it should take an ambulance 3 hrs to drop a patient off and that is the main reason it happens.

[bobalong]

Don't see anything online. Anyone have a link confirming?

Confirming......:rolleye2:

[FCLightning]

Nothing exciting here. Happens all the time. The system sucks to be honest. No reason it should take an ambulance 3 hrs to drop a patient off and that is the main reason it happens.

This.

[FCLightning]

Confirming......:rolleye2:

Probably over by now - as soon as one ambulance is cleared from the emergency room they will be good to go.

[NW Tradegunner]

From what I understand is that the ambulance personnel (all of them) cannot leave the hospital until the patient they brought in is admitted and in one of the observation rooms! Then they can go pick up their assignment. If there's a line up; tough luck! They wait!

[Bushmaster]

About 4 1/2 years ago I was in Edmonton for a couple of months for treatment at the Cross Clinic. About the third nite I had some heart problems, so a neighbor lady called for an ambulance. She was told there were none available....but within minutes a Fire Rescue truck arrived, and they had barely started to talk to me when an ambulance arrived. So I guess those guys are always there as a backup.

[FCLightning]

Don't see anything online. Anyone have a link confirming?

I don't think this is anything that makes the public in general. Do we hear about every time they call a code white in the hospital?

They have code red in nearly every rural area of the province whenever an ambulance gets called - there is only one so if you are in a rural area and plan to have a heart attack or any other serious accident you better check that someone else hasn't beat you to it already :mad0100:

Meanwhile the major urban areas can keep crying about the lack of 8 min. ambulance response times with full paramedic staff.

[SlightlyDistracting]

This is going to happen more and more. Really it already is. I wonder in 20 years. Getting any sort of medical care will be impossible. Does anybody else get concerned about this? As our population incresases and health care services dont expand somethings got to give.

[Norwest Alta]

Are ambulances private contractors these days? Just curious because I've heard of people getting $400 bills for a ambulalance ride.

[SlightlyDistracting]

Are ambulances private contractors these days? Just curious because I've heard of people getting $400 bills for a ambulalance ride.

Yes i have. I had to take a ride shortly after I started a new job. Benefits had not kicked in. Cost $380 for a 2 km trip. Still. Glad they were there

[FCLightning]

Are ambulances private contractors these days? Just curious because I've heard of people getting $400 bills for a ambulalance ride.

If you don't have extra health coverage you will have to pay for ambulance. Same as fire trucks - if you don't have fire insurance......

[nube]

About 4 1/2 years ago I was in Edmonton for a couple of months for treatment at the Cross Clinic. About the third nite I had some heart problems, so a neighbor lady called for an ambulance. She was told there were none available....but within minutes a Fire Rescue truck arrived, and they had barely started to talk to me when an ambulance arrived. So I guess those guys are always there as a backup.

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

[Red Bullets]

From what I understand is that the ambulance personnel (all of them) cannot leave the hospital until the patient they brought in is admitted and in one of the observation rooms! Then they can go pick up their assignment. If there's a line up; tough luck! They wait!

Yes, this has been my experience too. I needed an ambulance last year and the ambulance EMT did tell me they have to stay until patient is admitted to observation. I kept telling them to go but they had to stay acting as medics as required. About 1.5 hours of idle time in my case.

[nube]

Are ambulances private contractors these days? Just curious because I've heard of people getting $400 bills for a ambulalance ride.
It's more like $580 or more. If you can't pay it then the tax payer picks up the tab....
You can't turn down Patients either if they want to go to the hospital.
Lots of stories of certain types of people that want a ride across town and use it as a taxi service.... what can you do?
Then the tax payer picks up the tab for it....

[SlightlyDistracting]

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

Nube Ill assume you are an EMT? If so, id like to say thanks. You guys are amazing

[nube]

If you don't have extra health coverage you will have to pay for ambulance. Same as fire trucks - if you don't have fire insurance......

Fire is always free. Never does anyone get charged by Fire Suppression.

[nube]

Nube Ill assume you are an EMT? If so, id like to say thanks. You guys are amazing

Nope not at all.
Edmonton Fire Dept.
All Emergency staff need a pat on the back for a lot of stuff they get to deal with. It's a bitter sweet job. Got it's good and bad. Medics have it pretty bad and burn out rate is pretty high. I wouldn't ever push a young person in going that route in a big city. Most last about 8-10 years I find.

[Norwest Alta]

It's more like $580 or more. If you can't pay it then the tax payer picks up the tab....
You can't turn down Patients either if they want to go to the hospital.
Lots of stories of certain types of people that want a ride across town and use it as a taxi service.... what can you do?
Then the tax payer picks up the tab for it....

Thanks. Are their services contracted?

[SlightlyDistracting]

Nope not at all.
Edmonton Fire Dept.
All Emergency staff need a pat on the back for a lot of stuff they get to deal with. It's a bitter sweet job. Got it's good and bad. Medics have it pretty bad and burn out rate is pretty high. I wouldn't ever push a young person in going that route in a big city. Most last about 8-10 years I find.

X2
All first responders are rare breeds. You dont know how important they are until you need one. Thank you. Happy New Year

[Newview01]

I believe Lethbridge has the only ambulance service in AB that is not AHS.

Runs much more efficiently from what I understand.

[FCLightning]

Fire is always free. Never does anyone get charged by Fire Suppression.

When someone called the fire dept. to my place they sent me a bill for over $1000.
Heard of another fellow who got a bill of over $4000.

Maybe the difference of the major urban centre vs. rural volunteer dept.?

[nube]

When someone called the fire dept. to my place they sent me a bill for over $1000.
Heard of another fellow who got a bill of over $4000.

Maybe the difference of the major urban centre vs. rural volunteer dept.?

Most likely yes. I am just talking what I know in Edmonton.
The actual fire fighters will not ticket anyone. Fire prevention is in charge of any tickets and it happens from non compliance to fire codes and multiple false alarm nuisance calls that keep coming from the same place all the time and not trying to fix the issue. They work with you in most cases and are not like police that are out to get you and want to ticket everyone.
I suspect if you are getting $1000 or $4000 fines you are doing something pretty wrong and not trying to work with them but maybe a rural setting they are just out to get a few more dollars in the coffers more so than try and make things right but who knows.

[purgatory.sv]

The edmonton fire department is funded buy edmonton tax ?
It is a good investment.

The total budget for both expense and benefits is part of the tax base?

[cranky]

When they called for a ambulance for me 8 months ago i was at my kids place about halfway to Toefield. Fire got there first then the Police. They sent a contracted to EMS ambulance from FT Sask. Closest they had out there.

They got lost for a bit before finding me and by the time i got to the hospital it was over two hours. I suffered what the Docs called a massive heart attack. Im guessing partly, but not all was because of the time delay, that i have considerable heart damage which wont get any better. I now live with Congestive Heart Failure.

But i dont hold that against anyone its just the way it is and im thankful to all that took care of me. Its a thankless job often im sure.

[FCLightning]

I suspect if you are getting $1000 or $4000 fines you are doing something pretty wrong and not trying to work with them but maybe a rural setting they are just out to get a few more dollars in the coffers more so than try and make things right but who knows.

This was not a fine, it was a bill for fire services - itemized for how many trucks and how many men times the rate per hour for each.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

[RZR]

Be careful out there, my son just text me and Edmonton just went on Code Red......no ambulances available.

It happens lots in Lethbridge as well

[trophybook]

Saving needle victims such a shame . Just got home from downtown had supper at the larond tons of ambulance just parked in alla doing sfa

[bobalong]

It happens lots in Lethbridge as well

It is pretty common in Edmonton to, it can come and go pretty quickly, or hang on for a while. What is always consistent is that there will some losers on here that have to say/imply your lying about something that was just posted FYI.

[jmedical]

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

I am a Paramedic and currently on duty. Code red is a real code for limited resources and they use multiple colors yellow, orange, red. Code red was called tonight, how long did it last? I dont know to be honest. Most likely minutes. Happens quite a bit. Typically last minutes as protocols are in place to quickly make trucks available and they “flex” in rural resources and ambulances are shuffled to fill holes.

[bobalong]

Family member is EMS in the city, just talked to him---BULL SQUAT!!!! No such emergency in effect!

It was posted 4 hours ago skippy,:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[RavYak]

When someone called the fire dept. to my place they sent me a bill for over $1000.
Heard of another fellow who got a bill of over $4000.

Maybe the difference of the major urban centre vs. rural volunteer dept.?

Difference is public vs private. Some areas like Onoway/Alberta Beach are examples you can look up.

[airbornedeerhunter]

It was posted 4 hours ago skippy,:sHa_sarcasticlol:

May have been posted 4 hrs ago skippy, but it was never in effect this evening at all.

OK Skippy?

[Scottmisfits]

May have been posted 4 hrs ago skippy, but it was never in effect this evening at all.

OK Skippy?

Just a few posts up the guy, who was on duty disagrees with you.

[sns2]

From what I understand is that the ambulance personnel (all of them) cannot leave the hospital until the patient they brought in is admitted and in one of the observation rooms! Then they can go pick up their assignment. If there's a line up; tough luck! They wait!

I can speak from first hand experience that this is true.

[blacknorthernjk]

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive
Almost anything an ambulance can? Hmmm...that seems a stretch.

[58thecat]

Where is Skippy?
He has the answers.....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[RZR]

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

Lethbridge is a integrated fire/ems as well and that system is bar none a way better run system then AHS ever thought of being. Everyone is emt or paramedic certified, so if no ambulance is available at least there is a fire truck on its way. :happy0034:

[Scottmisfits]

Almost anything an ambulance can? Hmmm...that seems a stretch.

My cousin is on one of the rural county emergency response teams and that’s how they run as well. It makes a lot of sense to do it that way,, but I think he was referring to their skill set, not the capability with the equipment. An ambulance is far better equipped than a fire truck for medical situations.

[Sundancefisher]

So sounds like in really busy periods there is occasionally times where for short periods ambulances are in short supply. Sounds like in the low minutes versus hours like I read the first post to be trying to say.

[CanadianPsycho]

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Alberta actually has quite a few private ambulance services. For strictly EMS there is Guardian in rocky and whitecourt, Prairie EMS in the North East, Associated Ambulance, Stettler Ambulance, Caroline Ambulance and most Reserves run their own ambulances. For integrated services (both EMS and fire provided by one company) there is Strathcona Fire, Lethbridge Fire, Red Deer Emergency Services, and Fort MacMurray. And in most major cities fire fighters are trained to at minimum EMR level allowing them to at least support the pt until EMS arrives while not the same level of care it keeps people alive until EMS can transport or provide further interventions. fire is usually only dispatched to high level calls (think man down, cardiac arrests, difficulty breathing, major trauma events, etc). Almost everywhere else is AHS, which in my opinion runs a decent show. Could it be better, absolutely, but it does a decent enough job with the resources available.

Please forgive any rambling or weird writing. Just got off a 14hr shift.

[RBI]

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Alberta actually has quite a few private ambulance services. For strictly EMS there is Guardian in rocky and whitecourt, Prairie EMS in the North East, Associated Ambulance, Stettler Ambulance, Caroline Ambulance and most Reserves run their own ambulances. For integrated services (both EMS and fire provided by one company) there is Strathcona Fire, Lethbridge Fire, Red Deer Emergency Services, and Fort MacMurray. And in most major cities fire fighters are trained to at minimum EMR level allowing them to at least support the pt until EMS arrives while not the same level of care it keeps people alive until EMS can transport or provide further interventions. fire is usually only dispatched to high level calls (think man down, cardiac arrests, difficulty breathing, major trauma events, etc). Almost everywhere else is AHS, which in my opinion runs a decent show. Could it be better, absolutely, but it does a decent enough job with the resources available.

Please forgive any rambling or weird writing. Just got off a 14hr shift.

And thank you for that .

[mattthegorby]

As a former EMT, I agree with all the above written by those currently in the EMS trenches.

My take on coverage is that it would be difficult to run an ambulance service economically without having fairly frequent times where resources are stretched and cooperation with other agencies like neighboring ambulance services, hospitals, search and rescue, ski patrols, and especially fire are needed to fill in the gaps and work together.

You can look at general trends and try and staff for typically busy periods, but to echo others comments, you can have a couple motor vehicle accidents go down at once and 3 people with the sniffles and suddenly all cars are tied up and dispatches need to juggle.

That being said, EMS is hard work and the turnover rate is generally pretty high and this does not help staffing.

Matt

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[RZR]

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.


Then you get the ones that are looking for a ride from one end of the city to the other end and when they want to be dropped off before they get to the hospital.Then they get belligerent when they are told they have to go to the hospital for treatment, and there is nothing wrong with them. Total abuse of the system.

[blacknorthernjk]

My cousin is on one of the rural county emergency response teams and that’s how they run as well. It makes a lot of sense to do it that way,, but I think he was referring to their skill set, not the capability with the equipment. An ambulance is far better equipped than a fire truck for medical situations.

Rest assured an EFD firefighter does not have the same skill set as ACP or PCP paramedics. No requirement to maintain even the basic College licensing to be an EFD firefighter. Meanwhile your AHS Edmonton Ambulance service practitioners are required to re licence annually with mandatory annual educational requirements and individaul practitioner insurance.

[Scottmisfits]

Ok, city, I get that. But rural, he is an EMR first and then got his fire training. What he told me is that the majority in his county are both.

[blacknorthernjk]

Ok, city, I get that. But rural, he is an EMR first and then got his fire training. What he told me is that the majority in his county are both.

Truth.
Many rural services are integrated EMS/Fire. City of Edmonton is not. My original comment was directed towards Nube whom stated EFD was capable or doing almost anything an ambulance can, but I cannot for the life of me recall the last time I saw an EFD firefighter start an IV, intubate, decompress a chest, apply a traction splint etc. The skill sets are entirely different and they have the simplest most basic of life saving skills. Your AHS practitioners are highly trained and skilled with regular competency evaluations

[Scottmisfits]

Thanks for that clarification

[Kristopher10]

It's more like $580 or more. If you can't pay it then the tax payer picks up the tab....
You can't turn down Patients either if they want to go to the hospital.
Lots of stories of certain types of people that want a ride across town and use it as a taxi service.... what can you do?
Then the tax payer picks up the tab for it....

The wife got a bill last month and it was $383 I believe. The worst part about it is she was having an anxiety attack (a far cry from being hospital/ambulance worthy), someone else called an ambulance and when the ambulance arrived she was told that she HAD to go to the hospital because she was pregnant.

[FCLightning]

Truth.
but I cannot for the life of me recall the last time I saw an EFD firefighter start an IV, intubate, decompress a chest, apply a traction splint etc.

An EMT can do all that?

[Iron Brew]

Is there some sort of support for the EMT's etc. in regards to mental health? A friend from high school wound up taking his own life after years of ambulance work. Small town. Assumed to be PTSD. Very sad. He transported my dad when dad had a major stroke. I was never able to see him and thank him before he died.

[Ken07AOVette]

Fairly close to here, let's say within a couple hours, one of the biggest problems is people taking advantage of the Ambulance system to ridiculous levels. Want a ride into town? A call to 911 with 'my chest hurts' then walk out of the hospital into the bar, casino, cousin's house, whatever. It happens all the time, costing taxpayers countless hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars over the years. Everyone is aware of it, yet it continues and we get laughed at. Code Red happens far too often for no reason at all.
FCLightning the level of care given depends on the County requirements and training, but afaik none of us can administer drugs. The Paramedics can in the Ambulance.
There are quite a few fully trained members in our hall, last count I think was 23. A few of them are actually employed full time at the Wainwright Army Base as firefighters/EMS and more will be joining them from here in February likely.

[Flatlandliver]

Truth.
Many rural services are integrated EMS/Fire. City of Edmonton is not. My original comment was directed towards Nube whom stated EFD was capable or doing almost anything an ambulance can, but I cannot for the life of me recall the last time I saw an EFD firefighter start an IV, intubate, decompress a chest, apply a traction splint etc. The skill sets are entirely different and they have the simplest most basic of life saving skills. Your AHS practitioners are highly trained and skilled with regular competency evaluations

Maybe let’s keep the paramedic vs firefighter bs off this site k.

[wildbill]

EMT/PCP here

Code red is when there is one or less ambulances available in a given region. It happens so often these days that it barely raises an eye-brow. When I was in on practicum in Calgary, over 1 month I think they had at least 10 code reds. Alot of them are stupid calls, you'd be amazed how often ambulances are called for someone with the sniffles, a stubbed toe, leg cramps (yes really, I personally attended that call), or a tooth ache. Any major call however will have an ambulance diverted off a routine call for it though. and usually when one place goes code red outlying ambulances will be brought in. For example, when Calgary goes Code Red ambulances will be brought in from Okotoks, Airdrie, Cochrane, etc.

One of the major issues is that once we pick up a pt we cannot leave them until care is accepted by equal or higher level of care. At large hospitals (Foothills, PLC, etc.) there is several ambulances arriving every hour along with walk in pts. Thats alot of people coming through and the beds fill up. Critical pts will be seen immediately, but if you bring in someone with a cold you will most likely be waiting quite some time in the hall. Meaning your ambulance is out of service. Sometimes one crew will monitor several patients while waiting, but that is dependent on the service and what brings the patients in.

Alberta actually has quite a few private ambulance services. For strictly EMS there is Guardian in rocky and whitecourt, Prairie EMS in the North East, Associated Ambulance, Stettler Ambulance, Caroline Ambulance and most Reserves run their own ambulances. For integrated services (both EMS and fire provided by one company) there is Strathcona Fire, Lethbridge Fire, Red Deer Emergency Services, and Fort MacMurray. And in most major cities fire fighters are trained to at minimum EMR level allowing them to at least support the pt until EMS arrives while not the same level of care it keeps people alive until EMS can transport or provide further interventions. fire is usually only dispatched to high level calls (think man down, cardiac arrests, difficulty breathing, major trauma events, etc). Almost everywhere else is AHS, which in my opinion runs a decent show. Could it be better, absolutely, but it does a decent enough job with the resources available.

Please forgive any rambling or weird writing. Just got off a 14hr shift.

Thanks for clearing that up, since the op was unable to:)

[blacknorthernjk]

Maybe let’s keep the paramedic vs firefighter bs off this site k.

Misinformation requires clearing up else we have a general populace that has no idea what care providers responsibilities are. There is no b.s. presented on my behalf

[CanadianPsycho]

An EMT can do all that?

For the most part, multiple drugs (nothing overly exciting though, no opiods or serious pain killers. Mostly symptom relief). IVs, traction splints. No intubations or chest decompression, both Advanced Care Paramedic skills. EMT do have King LT airways which are decent.

[CanadianPsycho]

Is there some sort of support for the EMT's etc. in regards to mental health? A friend from high school wound up taking his own life after years of ambulance work. Small town. Assumed to be PTSD. Very sad. He transported my dad when dad had a major stroke. I was never able to see him and thank him before he died.


Shockingly poor, its becoming more away with several high level awareness campaigns such as "we got you back 911" and what not. Stress Debriefings are becoming more popular. But mental health issues are still a serious part of the job and I would bet end dozens if not hundreds of careers a year. The stuff you see and do in this job do affect you, especially in the large urban centers where you are on the road all day every day. PTSD is almost common in the First responder field.

[Ken07AOVette]

Is there some sort of support for the EMT's etc. in regards to mental health? A friend from high school wound up taking his own life after years of ambulance work. Small town. Assumed to be PTSD. Very sad. He transported my dad when dad had a major stroke. I was never able to see him and thank him before he died.

We have a great County, any time we are at a loss of life call we are offered counselling both group and private as required. I have used group once, but in order for it to help you have to be open to it. Many 'tough guys' will show a brave face in public but suffer in silence. :(

[Twist]

Fire is actually there before an Ambulance on most calls. I think the stats are 67% but I could be wrong.
They will do almost anything an ambulance can but the main thing they can't do is give the drugs other than Naloxone.
A duel system like in Edmonton is the best care you can have. Fire has more stations and is usually closer to a lot of calls and if not available the next station will pick up the call which will be a few more min. away.

On a major call like a code the main Ambulance will be dispatched and usually a PRU fast response supervisor and then another ambulance.
I find a Min. of 5 people on a code call is best and there is a lot of work to do. It takes a team effort to get the job done to give the best service and chance for the PT. to suvive

Glad to hear the junkies will get better care. They're just on the verge of turning their life around.

[nube]

Rest assured an EFD firefighter does not have the same skill set as ACP or PCP paramedics. No requirement to maintain even the basic College licensing to be an EFD firefighter. Meanwhile your AHS Edmonton Ambulance service practitioners are required to re licence annually with mandatory annual educational requirements and individaul practitioner insurance.

Never said it was the same skill set but ..... well I better not say or you might get excited again..
And yes we actually do have yearly requirements and testing.....
And no we don't belong to ACP anymore and there is a reason for that....
And yes Paramedics are highly trained but I would say less than half of the staff in the city are paramedics.
For 90% of the calls a basic EMR levl is what is needed.
I would also add about 1/5 or more of the Firefighters in Edmonton are EMT level but are not recognized.
Not that it matters much. I am glad Patients get the best care possible with the system here. Not too many places you can have 6-9 people at your door in less than 7 min most times for the care they need. You won't get that in most Rural places that is for sure.

[FCLightning]

You won't get that in most Rural places that is for sure.

There's the understatement of the year.

[Battle Rat]

Never said it was the same skill set but ..... well I better not say or you might get excited again..
And yes we actually do have yearly requirements and testing.....
And no we don't belong to ACP anymore and there is a reason for that....
And yes Paramedics are highly trained but I would say less than half of the staff in the city are paramedics.
For 90% of the calls a basic EMR levl is what is needed.
I would also add about 1/5 or more of the Firefighters in Edmonton are EMT level but are not recognized.
Not that it matters much. I am glad Patients get the best care possible with the system here. Not too many places you can have 6-9 people at your door in less than 7 min most times for the care they need. You won't get that in most Rural places that is for sure.

A quick response time with a fighter fighter providing medical aid offers a far better chance of survival than a delayed paramedic.

[mattthegorby]

I am a strong proponent of paramedic training and expanding the scope of what paramedics can do, I feel they have an under utilizes skill set and the biggest thing we can do to strengthen the profession is to offer more opportunities for medical focused training and work specialization.

That being said, despite what one thinks about structuring emergency medical services as dependant on fire department first responder programs, there are many fire fighter EMTs that provide a level of care that is extremely high and in some instances, like motor vehicle incidents and technical rescue, have cross training that makes them an invaluable part of the team.

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[kevinhits]

A quick response time with a fighter fighter providing medical aid offers a far better chance of survival than a delayed paramedic.

x2....If I was in distress, just knowing any emergency unit is there asap would be more comforting for me, whether it is police, fire or paramedic:)

[nube]

x2....If I was in distress, just knowing any emergency unit is there asap would be more comforting for me, whether it is police, fire or paramedic:)

I don't know what police have for medical training but it would be interesting to know. I walked into a scene once with a police officer doing chest compressions on a young man with a .45 cal. slug through his chest. First time I have seen them involved but he was part of the Tactical team so he may have had more training. It certainly wouldn't be a bad thing for police to be trained even to the basic levels.

[raab]

An EMT can do all that?

EMTs can start an IV, interpret 4 lead ECG's, give Nitro, Ventolin/Atrovent, Entonox, and use an LMA or King LT. They should also know what to look for if a patient needs a needle de-compression, 12/15 lead, the stroke team, or intubation.

Paramedics can do more then I can type.



Now in saying that the EFD does great work, but they can't provide the same level of care as an EMT or Paramedic. Not because they'e incapable as many on the EFD were once qualified EMT's,Paramedic's, Nurse's. They just dont have the same protocols as an ambulance service has. I say once qualified because the training to keep up your EMT and Paramedic is ridiculous. Many are letting their licenses expire because of the cost associated with keeping it, and instead getting the MFR training. It's actually easier to keep up your continuing competency in nursing then it is for an EMT. Just insane

As for the code red situation. This is why I'd like to see some more privatization brought into the public sector. Our system is broken because we dont have enough long term care beds. What happens is someone goes into the Emergency. They're seen by a doctor and it's determined they're to sick to go home, but not sick enough that they need an immediate intervention. So the hospital will look for a bed for them. A lot of the time you'll have a patient in the ER taking up a bed for 2-3 days. Sometimes less sometimes more.

So now a bed that is designed to quickly get patients in and out is being taken up for long periods. This reduces the amount of beds available for the ER to get patients seen. Say your at the U of A that has maybe 30 beds(I dunno how many they actually have), and 10 of them are being taken up by people waiting for LTC beds. Now if we assume the average examination takes an hour. Well now your seeing 10 less people an hour. You look at the waiting rooms and theres usually less then 50 people waiting. So this is a substantial amount when it come to ER wait times. If we want more ambulances on the road instead of waiting in ER's. This is the fix.

Notley, and the NDP promised 1200 new LTC beds when they we're elected in 2015 to help fix the system. To date they haven't built one.(Not Surprised)

[raab]

A quick response time with a fighter fighter providing medical aid offers a far better chance of survival than a delayed paramedic.

Integrated service is the best method by far. Full protocols on a fire truck. Only problem with it, is that a fire truck doesnt get a patient to the hospital any faster. Sometimes the best intervention for a patient is diesel.

[raab]

Never said it was the same skill set but ..... well I better not say or you might get excited again..
And yes we actually do have yearly requirements and testing.....
And no we don't belong to ACP anymore and there is a reason for that....
And yes Paramedics are highly trained but I would say less than half of the staff in the city are paramedics.
For 90% of the calls a basic EMR levl is what is needed.
I would also add about 1/5 or more of the Firefighters in Edmonton are EMT level but are not recognized.
Not that it matters much. I am glad Patients get the best care possible with the system here. Not too many places you can have 6-9 people at your door in less than 7 min most times for the care they need. You won't get that in most Rural places that is for sure.

Yea, the joys of being a rural practitioner. Full cardiac arrest and your back up is 30 minutes behind you... Or 4 vehicle pile-up and your closest ALS back up is Stars. The city guys got it great, most calls at least 6 guys on scene.

[nube]

Yea, the joys of being a rural practitioner. Full cardiac arrest and your back up is 30 minutes behind you... Or 4 vehicle pile-up and your closest ALS back up is Stars. The city guys got it great, most calls at least 6 guys on scene.

Seems like you might know this but what are Rural areas doing for manning their Ambulances. Are they all ALS or are some still BLS service. Hopefully a medic is on every Ambulance. I know when I was on an ambulance years ago Edmonton ran mostly BLS but had a few roaming ALS Ambulances. I was lucky enough to be on it so I got to get a lot of good experience but didn't think it was the best system. I believe they are all ALS now but havn't really made it a priority to notice or not. I imagine a lot of the Rural areas are mostly BLS?

[raab]

Seems like you might know this but what are Rural areas doing for manning their Ambulances. Are they all ALS or are some still BLS service. Hopefully a medic is on every Ambulance. I know when I was on an ambulance years ago Edmonton ran mostly BLS but had a few roaming ALS Ambulances. I was lucky enough to be on it so I got to get a lot of good experience but didn't think it was the best system. I believe they are all ALS now but havn't really made it a priority to notice or not. I imagine a lot of the Rural areas are mostly BLS?

As far as I know still lots of BLS units around the province(Stocked to ALS level besides the drug pouches). They try to keep ALS units within a 45 minute intercept area IIRC. If your lucky they might actually be in station and not on a transfer to Edmonton when you need them.

Edmonton has both ALS and BLS units. The BLS units get back up from PRU's if they need it. Unless something has changed in the city, thats the last I heard about it.

[Battle Rat]

Integrated service is the best method by far. Full protocols on a fire truck. Only problem with it, is that a fire truck doesnt get a patient to the hospital any faster. Sometimes the best intervention for a patient is diesel.

For sure.
I've worked both sides of this where I'm giving patient care wishing rescue was on scene and other times doing extrication on wishing EMS would hurry up and arrive.

[Bushmaster]

Had coffee with the local fire chief this morning, they responded to a single vehicle accident just a mile from where I live last Friday. Single passenger and they called STARS and they refused to come !! Guy was transported to Provost Hospital and flown to Edmonton by Air Ambulance. Nobody was sure why STARS refused....could it have been the COLD weather(and concerns of fuel usage)? I know they have been here before.
And who would make the call to STARS...Ambulance attendant, Fire/Rescue ??

[Battle Rat]

Had coffee with the local fire chief this morning, they responded to a single vehicle accident just a mile from where I live last Friday. Single passenger and they called STARS and they refused to come !! Guy was transported to Provost Hospital and flown to Edmonton by Air Ambulance. Nobody was sure why STARS refused....could it have been the COLD weather(and concerns of fuel usage)? I know they have been here before.
And who would make the call to STARS...Ambulance attendant, Fire/Rescue ??

Could have been weather or availability. The AWs can make Provost from Edmonton but the old BKs would need to refuel somewhere on the home trip.
EMS, doctors and fire can all call STARs and request their response.
Recently a fixed wing responded the Hardisty when the helo couldn't fly due to the weather.

[nube]

Had coffee with the local fire chief this morning, they responded to a single vehicle accident just a mile from where I live last Friday. Single passenger and they called STARS and they refused to come !! Guy was transported to Provost Hospital and flown to Edmonton by Air Ambulance. Nobody was sure why STARS refused....could it have been the COLD weather(and concerns of fuel usage)? I know they have been here before.
And who would make the call to STARS...Ambulance attendant, Fire/Rescue ??

Fire or EMS in Edmonton can ask Dispatch to call. I've landed them twice in 17 years. Fire called both times but if they are needed then anyone can put the call in. Pretty impressive crew on those choppers!
They may not have come due to distance. There is a circle of coverage they can effectively handle. Also time from scene to hospital is a factor. If it's quicker for them to get a PT to a hospital using an Ambulance they will hich makes sense. I doubt by the time Stars got there then off to a hospital would have been quicker for this situation. They will get them to Hospital then stabalize then transport using air transportation on fixed wing or maybe chopper is what I think.

Raab -- the PRU has been a great thing as well in Edmonton. Very quick response and great to have someone on scene like that to help until and Ambulance arrives. We had a choking that turned into a code last week that didn't end well but the PRU beat us to the call by 30 seconds and usually they wouldn't have. Very good work was done and PT got her Pulse back after a couple shocks we gave but later died that night. Came close on that one. Usually tough to get a normal pulse back and thought she would have made it.

[Med Head 2]

Sorry this may be a long reply,

I have been in EMS for 24 years in all sorts of capacities from EMR/EMT/Paramedic/volunteer Fire Fighter. Through out the province but the last 18 years as a Paramedic with the City of Edmonton/AHS. There is multiple factors that now bite us in the behind with Code Reds. In I believe 2006 the province announced that they were taking over the ambulance services from municipalities. This did not take full effect until 2009. During that time some services did not put anymore money into the system but maintained status quo. From 2006-2009 Edmonton experienced a large population boom and substantial call volume increase. After 2009 it took a few years to for AHS to catch up, while trying to playing catch up, hospital times started creeping up( crews stuck in the hospital until the hospital took over. Crews would take 3-5 pt's at a time to facilitate shift changes and getting units on the road. Rapid response units(PRU) started be implemented as a stop gap. Getting patients thru the hospital is a multifaceted challenge not just long term care beds. Facilities need to be built staff hired and trained and the big one who will pay for all of it.

I can say 100% that the relationship between EFRS/EMS/EPS is getting better. In the early days we had more than a few confrontations between crews. It's not about who can do what or who's there first, it's we are all there for the patient. We (first responders) all have strong personalities and on the outside it looks like kids fighting for the parents attention but in the end we are all family.

Stepping off soap box(lol)

[jgib01]

Edit... maybe next time I'll read the whole thread before I reply to something on the first page. Sorry folks.

[JeanCretien]

Paramedic Jobs Edmonton
Hey- heads up to hunters and fishers. I’ve heard that they will be hiring EMRs and PCPs in Edmonton area for casual for AHS. PM me for details.


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[rem338win]

Could have been weather or availability. The AWs can make Provost from Edmonton but the old BKs would need to refuel somewhere on the home trip.
EMS, doctors and fire can all call STARs and request their response.
Recently a fixed wing responded the Hardisty when the helo couldn't fly due to the weather.

Any emergency personnel with STARS training can call and request assistance. This includes police, fire, ambulance, Sheriffs and peace officers.

[drhu22]

Nothing like a catchy title eh?

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Shockingly poor, its becoming more away with several high level awareness campaigns such as "we got you back 911" and what not. Stress Debriefings are becoming more popular. But mental health issues are still a serious part of the job and I would bet end dozens if not hundreds of careers a year. The stuff you see and do in this job do affect you, especially in the large urban centers where you are on the road all day every day. PTSD is almost common in the First responder field.

Maybe this is a job for me :thinking-006: I would say I have somewhat of a dexter type personality, you know that old chestnut, I enjoy breakfast too lol :)

[JeanCretien]

FYI AHS EMS Edmonton is hiring PCP and EMRs I hear there are postings up right now.


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[Kim473]

They really need to fix the system. Why do the ems have to waist countless hrs in hospital emergency when they could be on the road waiting for a call. All the hospitals need to get fixed at their end so the ems can get back to doing what they do best rather than waiting for the hospital to attend to patients waiting in hallways.

[fishtank]

They really need to fix the system. Why do the ems have to waist countless hrs in hospital emergency when they could be on the road waiting for a call. All the hospitals need to get fixed at their end so the ems can get back to doing what they do best rather than waiting for the hospital to attend to patients waiting in hallways.
kinda like this ...https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1CZZtJIgAA-8NB.jpg