Evidence our Gov’s policies are flawed

[PerchBuster]

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/Why-you-should-always-always-ALWAYS-release-big-fish

I posted this up on the Alberta Walleye Meetings thread as well but wanted to start a separate thread as well to get as many people as possible to read this article. You can read my expose on that other thread but this is very telling that our fisheries policies are completely backwards to the way the rest of the world manages their fisheries. We sell tags to keep all the large Walleye over 43cm or 50 cm and Pikeover 63cm etc and this shoots that whole policy down in flames. If you go to the Walleye meeting (I can’t or I would) maybe bring this article with you and bring it up in discussion. Our fisheries will remain closed, collapsed, no harvest, C&R, for as long as we continue to have flawed fisheries management practices like exist today. Despite their failed efforts very few lakes improve to where harvest opportunities can coexist. Reason.....we allow all the large fish to be harvested. This all reminds me of the definition of insanity and that’s frankly how our experts manage our fisheries today.

[pikeman06]

Yup beating the same dead horse....it's totally backwards to how a fishery is to be managed to maintain a gene pool or remain sustainable. The points been argued since the day we started whacking all our egg laden females over the head because that's all we are allowed to keep if a fellow feels like a meal of fresh fish to justify all the expense and effort. It's a total shame that the fisheries people are so ignorant in this province despite having saskatchewan and manitoba and British Columbia as neighbors practicing opposite fishery goals.

[Logan]

Great read! Personally I rarely keep fish, maybe the odd Ling, Perch and whitefish but I’ve pretty much beat it in my own head that all Alberta’s Central and Southern bodies of watch can’t sustain constant harvest and I should put fish back...just my goofy way of thinking.

I always wondered if a yearly on/off slot size would work. Now I know nothing about nothing when it comes to fish biology but I was talking with a friend and we were wondering if select lakes for example Newell & McGregor had a 1-2 per day slot size of Walleye between 30-43cm on even number years and then odd number years say Traverse and Crawling Valley had the same.

Would something like that be more beneficial or would the most likely situation of lakes taking turns getting hammered with anglers keeping fish take place ?

[Andrzej]

Small walleye eats perch so there is no food for pike. What rules are introduced now by Alberta brilliant biologist to recover pike is Zero limit on pike.
Liberal limit on walleye in smaller size would provide food for collapsing pike population.
This is to simple for educated folk in charge to comprehend...
And it looks like big walleye produces more eggs and those eggs are most likely
to hatch then from smaller ones.
So what we see in some lakes is increased size to keep walleye over 50 cm.:snapoutofit:
PETA at work to stop all fishing ???

[swampy45]

Good read, and I agree and practice C&R on trophy fish. Too many people will never adopt C&R though, and if our fisheries continue to be managed the way they are, there will be no (trophy) fishery for future generations.

[aulrich]

For me and those in my boat keeper pike are 26"-32" everything else goes free, and that is if I am keeping fish.

[michaelmicallef]

Fished pine lake this weekend. Between 3 of us we pulled about 100 pike up. Only 2 were over 62 cm. Sad . Every ecosystem needs and even age class to be deemed healthy. We are getting ripped of in the province because these guys managing our lakes are getting paid but can't understand basic fundamentals of a healthy lake. Just plain stupid. And that's not the only lake I have fished and had identical results. I'm pretty sure if they gave me one lake to manage I
Could get things looking more indicative of a good ecosystem. It might not be 100 fish a day lake but it will have fish in it that will make great fighters and make for nice picks. But I guess it's all about numbers in Alberta.

[Pikebreath]

Alberta angling pressure per fish bearing body of water is significantly higher other jurisdictions in Canada.

In order for slots to work in producing more big fish, you need to have enough grow through the slot which may not happen on lakes with heavy angling pressure. Witness the example of Pine Lake given above... High numbers of fish but very few of harvestable size. Why,,, plain and simply anglers are removing nearly every fish that reaches the harvestable slot (over 63 cm). Just transpose that harvest pressure onto a smaller size slot (ie 50 - 63 cm) and now consider how many fish would live long enough to grow over 63 cm?

I am all for slots to protect the larger fish, but for slots to work in Alberta, we would need further restrictions on harvest,,, translation,, more general use of a tag system which limits the anglers overall yearly harvest as opposed to daily limits which only limit the anglers harvest on daily basis.

[michaelmicallef]

Well I think they need to try something. Which I see in the regs has been done on some lakes. I know some people can't fathom the idea of fishing and not harvesting. I don't really care. I would rather have the opportunity for trophy fish. After all those are the ones that stand out in our minds. I think a slot system would work if tailored to the lakes in various Alberta regions. It's takes effort to produce good results and I don't see enough here. Especially in parts of Alberta in which pressure on lakes is high. Although I read on another thread here that the purpose of going to zero catch limit on lakes if for enforcement purposes. That's again lame. Management of the user of the resource not the resource itself.

[bobalong]

Alberta angling pressure per fish bearing body of water is significantly higher other jurisdictions in Canada.

In order for slots to work in producing more big fish, you need to have enough grow through the slot which may not happen on lakes with heavy angling pressure. Witness the example of Pine Lake given above... High numbers of fish but very few of harvestable size. Why,,, plain and simply anglers are removing nearly every fish that reaches the harvestable slot (over 63 cm). Just transpose that harvest pressure onto a smaller size slot (ie 50 - 63 cm) and now consider how many fish would live long enough to grow over 63 cm?

I am all for slots to protect the larger fish, but for slots to work in Alberta, we would need further restrictions on harvest,,, translation,, more general use of a tag system which limits the anglers overall yearly harvest as opposed to daily limits which only limit the anglers harvest on daily basis.

I agree, getting walleye (thousands of them) to spawning age is the goal. It has been my experience that smaller walleye are usually much easier to catch, so without some protection very few are actually going to make it to spawning age, especially in the lakes close to large cities. Even in a lake with a somewhat stable population of walleye how many 5+ walleye will you catch compared to those under 5 or even 3 lbs, even back 25 years ago when there was lots of walleye in the lakes.

[Walleye101]

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/Why-you-should-always-always-ALWAYS-release-big-fish

I posted this up on the Alberta Walleye Meetings thread as well but wanted to start a separate thread as well to get as many people as possible to read this article. You can read my expose on that other thread but this is very telling that our fisheries policies are completely backwards to the way the rest of the world manages their fisheries. We sell tags to keep all the large Walleye over 43cm or 50 cm and Pikeover 63cm etc and this shoots that whole policy down in flames. If you go to the Walleye meeting (I can’t or I would) maybe bring this article with you and bring it up in discussion. Our fisheries will remain closed, collapsed, no harvest, C&R, for as long as we continue to have flawed fisheries management practices like exist today. Despite their failed efforts very few lakes improve to where harvest opportunities can coexist. Reason.....we allow all the large fish to be harvested. This all reminds me of the definition of insanity and that’s frankly how our experts manage our fisheries today.

Yes it's a complete joke. We Alberta Anglers have been saying this for years. It's so frustrating seeing big breeders been harvested in this province. This government needs to wake up once and for all. I personally have caught many big fish here and never could have the heart to keep a big prime breeding fish. I would like for my children and grand children and so on to enjoy fishing throughout their lifetime. These next few years will be critical for the Alberta fishery for years to come with population increase's vs the amount of lakes in Alberta.

[slough shark]

An interesting option to see would be in the ability to purchase tags (no draw) for a slot size limit (say 43-50 cm) for the walleye valid on a list of lakes. I can think of like 30 lakes that could benefit from having a walleye removed from it but in a limited amount (cvr, mcgregor, Newell, sylvan, pigeon, gull, wab, chin,travers...) It’s frustrating to see lakes just get pounded by walleye and seeing other fish species suffer, it would be worth trying formjuat a year or 2 to see if that leads to a balanced fishery and recovery of perch, whitefish and pike. It would be nice to actually eat some of those millions of walleye that they stocked, heck they are so overpopulated in some of those lakes that they will never reach their potential as they are stunted. Most fishermen don’t want to destroy a fishery but eat a few for supper here and there and those lakes could sure support/use it.

[michaelmicallef]

Selling tags for fish is another joke. Just make it
Free. What's next bait permit. Spincast permit. Fish in you
Sandles permit. PLEASE!!!!

[slough shark]

Selling tags for fish is another joke. Just make it
Free. What's next bait permit. Spincast permit. Fish in you
Sandles permit. PLEASE!!!!

Perhaps automatically give those tags with the license then, while I would love to get a lot of the walleye out of several lakes to give the other species a break opening up to much retention would collapse the walleye and we don’t want it collapsed just more in balance. A few of the lakes I mentioned could probably sustain a slot size limit with a limit of 1 but others definitely need tags

[Kingfisher]

Will these meetings make any difference? Probably not. But at least it is a chance for people to talk to the biologists in Alberta rather than just bitching in a forum without ever having a chance for real change.

Get organized. Ask the questions you really want answered. I went to the first meeting in Calgary. At least they are giving us an opportunity to voice our opinions. Will it make a difference? Probably not. But it at least is better than just bitching on an internet forum. But it is easier for some people to sit behind an keyboard and complain, without ever leaving the comfort of their home.



Events and Info Sessions
Find a Public Event or Information Session Near You
New events added for January - April:

Northern Pike and Walleye Public Information Session (Calgary) – January 10
Northern Pike and Walleye Public Information Session (Edmonton Area) – January 11
Northern Pike and Walleye Public Information Session (Slave Lake) – January 17
Northern Pike and Walleye Public Information Session (Grande Prairie) – January 18
Northern Pike and Walleye Public Information Session (Lac La Biche) – January 22
Calgary Boat & Sportsmen’s Show (Calgary) – February 8-11
Red Deer Sportsman & Outdoor Adventure Show (Red Deer) – March 2-4
Edmonton Boat & Sportsmen’s Show (Edmonton) – March 15-18
Calgary Outdoor Adventure and Travel Show (Calgary) – March 24-25
Grande Prairie Sports Expo (Grande Prairie) – April 6-8
Edmonton Cottage Life & Cabin Show (Edmonton) – April 20-22

http://aep.alberta.ca/about-us/public-engagement/events-and-info-sessions.aspx

[Hillbilly 12]

Yes it's a complete joke. We Alberta Anglers have been saying this for years. It's so frustrating seeing big breeders been harvested in this province. This government needs to wake up once and for all. I personally have caught many big fish here and never could have the heart to keep a big prime breeding fish. I would like for my children and grand children and so on to enjoy fishing throughout their lifetime. These next few years will be critical for the Alberta fishery for years to come with population increase's vs the amount of lakes in Alberta.

X2!!, keep the breeders, meen while if you catch a small fish and he's bleeding badly we are to put him back!, saskatchewan says to keep a small one if bleeding because they have common sense, something alberta has none of. Saskatchewan says keep all but one fish exceeding a certain lenght in many lakes, why... Because they protect the breeders. It has nothing to do with fishing pressure, it's called poor management.

[michaelmicallef]

Perhaps automatically give those tags with the license then, while I would love to get a lot of the walleye out of several lakes to give the other species a break opening up to much retention would collapse the walleye and we don’t want it collapsed just more in balance. A few of the lakes I mentioned could probably sustain a slot size limit with a limit of 1 but others definitely need tags

Sorry I didn't mean just give unlimited tags away. Have a draw system but not charge for them. Unless it's already like that. I don't know I haven't applied for a walleye tag. I just assumed that was an extra charge.

[slough shark]

Sorry I didn't mean just give unlimited tags away. Have a draw system but not charge for them. Unless it's already like that. I don't know I haven't applied for a walleye tag. I just assumed that was an extra charge.

It’s like 3-4$ to enter the draw and like $10 I think if you get it, that could be streamlined but probably won’t be because that would make it free 😡I would also suggest that all the lakes I know of that are on a tag system the 43-50 cm slot size class everyone who wants them should get them (although they should be limited to the 1 set of tags) the walleye numbers simply need to be trimmed more. One shouldn’t roll up to a lake and catch 50-100 walleye with 95% being in a certain age/size class while at the same time if you were to target other species like perch, pike, whitefish the catch total would be far fewer, it simply shows a very skewed ecosystem.

[michaelmicallef]

Not paying twice. No way! I bought a fishing liecence. I would not buy tags on principal alone.Lots of things in Alberta are behind the times not just fisheries management.

[SNAPFisher]

Selling tags for fish is another joke. Just make it
Free. What's next bait permit. Spincast permit. Fish in you
Sandles permit. PLEASE!!!!

Guess what, it costs money to run the tag system. $$ Have to come from somewhere. $$ go to cover the expenses. They could make them free and just jack up the regular license fee. Then everyone has to pay and it is not even a choice.... wow...looks like your idea sucks after all :lol:

Past that, for all the winey anglers, move! Go to these other provinces that are doing it so much better and don't look back.

[michaelmicallef]

I'll move it you'll pay for it.

[SNAPFisher]

I'll move it you'll pay for it.

Sounds good, since I currently have a choice if I want to or not.

[Walleye101]

Not paying twice. No way! I bought a fishing liecence. I would not buy tags on principal alone.Lots of things in Alberta are behind the times not just fisheries management.

Yes exactly.

[michaelmicallef]

Guys, it's never going to be perfect but it can be better.

[1bluZebec]

Always room for improvement

[SNAPFisher]

Alberta angling pressure per fish bearing body of water is significantly higher other jurisdictions in Canada.

In order for slots to work in producing more big fish, you need to have enough grow through the slot which may not happen on lakes with heavy angling pressure. Witness the example of Pine Lake given above... High numbers of fish but very few of harvestable size. Why,,, plain and simply anglers are removing nearly every fish that reaches the harvestable slot (over 63 cm). Just transpose that harvest pressure onto a smaller size slot (ie 50 - 63 cm) and now consider how many fish would live long enough to grow over 63 cm?

I am all for slots to protect the larger fish, but for slots to work in Alberta, we would need further restrictions on harvest,,, translation,, more general use of a tag system which limits the anglers overall yearly harvest as opposed to daily limits which only limit the anglers harvest on daily basis.

Agree. Slot size alone will not fare any better.

[wind drift]

Lots of good info here: https://albertaep.wordpress.com/2017/07/14/alberta-fisheries-management-the-science-of-fish/#more-7317

here:
https://albertaep.wordpress.com/2017/08/10/alberta-fisheries-management-fishery-productivity/

And here:
https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/regulations/documents/SlotSizeLimitsAlberta-May2017.pdf

I’m happy that AEP is putting more focus on sharing info with us nowadays.

[Pikebreath]

Lots of good info here: https://albertaep.wordpress.com/2017/07/14/alberta-fisheries-management-the-science-of-fish/#more-7317

here:
https://albertaep.wordpress.com/2017/08/10/alberta-fisheries-management-fishery-productivity/

And here:
https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/regulations/documents/SlotSizeLimitsAlberta-May2017.pdf

I’m happy that AEP is putting more focus on sharing info with us nowadays.

Thanks for posting those links,,,

Hopefully the links get opened, read and digested by all the armchair biologists here on this board.

It has been shown that slots without restrictions on harvest will not work on many of our fisheries.

Tags are in reality a slot with a harvest restriction,,, however our current tag allocation is fairly complicated and requires a lot of micro management.

Why not set up a tag system where like hunting for whitetail you are given tags when you buy your licence? Say,,, give out 10 pike or walleye tags in a combination of size limits with restrictions as how many tags can be used in certain zones / lakes (ie. 3 tags of the 10 tags can be used in PP2 only,,, no more than one tag in a "vulnerable" lake,,, and so on.)

This is similar to the idea slough shark threw out earlier in this thread.

This would put yearly or annual possession limits in place and could spread angling harvest pressure around vs concentrating it in a few open lakes,,, and with the elimination of a minimum size perhaps allow for more larger fish to be caught as well.

[wind drift]

Thanks for posting those links,,,

Hopefully the links get opened, read and digested by all the armchair biologists here on this board.

It has been shown that slots without restrictions on harvest will not work on many of our fisheries.

Tags are in reality a slot with a harvest restriction,,, however our current tag allocation is fairly complicated and requires a lot of micro management.

Why not set up a tag system where like hunting for whitetail you are given tags when you buy your licence? Say,,, give out 10 pike or walleye tags in a combination of size limits with restrictions as how many tags can be used in certain zones / lakes (ie. 3 tags of the 10 tags can be used in PP2 only,,, no more than one tag in a "vulnerable" lake,,, and so on.)

This is similar to the idea slough shark threw out earlier in this thread.

This would put yearly or annual possession limits in place and could spread angling harvest pressure around vs concentrating it in a few open lakes,,, and with the elimination of a minimum size perhaps allow for more larger fish to be caught as well.

I like the idea of a flexible annual quota licence, with a max harvest restriction for any one lake. To build on the concept, perhaps licensing could be set up so that there would be two licence choices available, a lower cost catch and release only licence, and a higher cost harvest licence with an annual quota.

I wonder how good the compliance would be? Could Fisheries trust anglers enough to make it work?

[michaelmicallef]

Thanks for the links. I will definitely read it while in my arm chair.

[SNAPFisher]

Thanks for posting those links,,,

Hopefully the links get opened, read and digested by all the armchair biologists here on this board.

It has been shown that slots without restrictions on harvest will not work on many of our fisheries.

Tags are in reality a slot with a harvest restriction,,, however our current tag allocation is fairly complicated and requires a lot of micro management.

Why not set up a tag system where like hunting for whitetail you are given tags when you buy your licence? Say,,, give out 10 pike or walleye tags in a combination of size limits with restrictions as how many tags can be used in certain zones / lakes (ie. 3 tags of the 10 tags can be used in PP2 only,,, no more than one tag in a "vulnerable" lake,,, and so on.)

This is similar to the idea slough shark threw out earlier in this thread.

This would put yearly or annual possession limits in place and could spread angling harvest pressure around vs concentrating it in a few open lakes,,, and with the elimination of a minimum size perhaps allow for more larger fish to be caught as well.

Good post.

I can add one thing about tags that I noticed on my own behavior, I use them - meaning I see them through and don't waste them. When I see some members on here calling them a joke and they have not even used them ... no credibility and the argument is done. If you think about it, all the trouble you go through to get them you are not going to let them go to waste. And, you pay $$ for them. Of course you are going to use them. And, I find myself that when I'm done with them I move on. That is a much more effective slot size limit than just setting a general one. A difference maker.

Would I rather not have to use tags or enter a draw, of course. But they seem to be necessary if there is going to be any harvest from AB lakes that can't handle pressure of general limits.