Anatomy of a fishery collapse...

[robert]

Reading some of these posts makes me shake my head. It's funny when people talk about fisheries like it'll always be there. These are just my own musings and experiences that i'm going to share. Feel free to comment or move on.

I'm going to put a newfoundland spin on things for this post and talk about what the destruction of a fishery is really like.

Newfoundland had one of the richest natural resources in the world people - yep, the atlantic cod stocks. It was treated like a fully replenishable resource that we could tap forever - not so. Technology taught us that.

Factory trawlers from around the world started the race, then canada and newfoundland jumped in with their own trawlers. They raped the ocean floor in the race for the cod, destroyed the food chain as they went. Inshore fishermen - not unlike the people that are trying to rescue alberta fishing - cried foul, They knew there was a problem with the cod stocks long before it was admitted there was a problem - the cod stocks were dwindling but yet, the race kept on. In 1992 the race ended, the cod stocks were too far gone to keep a manageable fishery and everything came crashing down. By the time the proper rules, regulations and quotas were introduced it was too bloody late.

Human greed and greed alone caused the collapse of one of the richest natural resources in the world - it was a runaway train that couldn't be stopped. Countries could have made the choice to stop but they didn't, they kept up the free for all and some still are. Now that it's done, all that's left is the finger pointing. Seals, warming ocean currents, foriegn overfishing, whatever, all were blamed but yet, canadian trawlers took more than it's fair share.

There's fisheries all around the world that are in trouble today because of us. You name it, salmon stocks, crab and lobster, etc - it's a long list and i'm sure others can tack on more to that list.


So let's compare shall we? Some people treat the lakes here in alberta (and across canada) like it's a completely renewable resource, gonna get their share - But can these lakes cope from the heavy fishing pressure from humans? History dictates that they cannot and we never seem to learn from our mistakes.



Now personally, i'm a C&R fisherman, been fishing in alberta for 5 years now. And like many, i've caught and released many fish. I always use barbless hooks, take care in handling fish and yada yada yada. It's my personal choice to be catch and release, and the reasons matter to me but i'll share them with you.

Growing up, I took my share of fish of many species from waters around newfoundland. I did damage and left my own footprint back then that are causing repercussions today but knowing what I know now, I make a conscious choice to put back what I catch. Yeah, I like the taste of walleye and pike too but I can do without it and i'm sure we can all do with a little less.


I've said it before and i'll say it again, if people would learn to moderate themselves then we would have no reason for rules, laws and regulations. But as it is, we are ruled to death.



Again, just my musings and experience. Feel free to tear me apart if you wish.

Robert.

[I-Love-Eyes]

Robert;

Well said!!! I cannot say how gratifying it is to hear from someone who feels the same as me. I also believe that C/R is the only way to preserve the fishery in Alberta.

A lot of people think that if you only take one or two fish that the fishery will be sustained...not so!! IMO

I think that if a species of fish is getting "overpopulated", mother nature will take care of the problem ie: a natural die off or a winter kill etc.

[Cal]

If C&R is not benificial than howcome the pidgion walleye are doing so well? I personaly am not strictly a C&R fisherman but I do strictly limit my catch, the fish I release as well as the fish I keep.

[I-Love-Eyes]

If C&R is not benificial than howcome the pidgion walleye are doing so well? I personaly am not strictly a C&R fisherman but I do strictly limit my catch, the fish I release as well as the fish I keep.

Actually we said that C/R IS beneficial.

[Cal]

I know what you were saying, my remark was in agreement and directed at those who like to say that lakes with no regulations have better fishing and all that.

[fishunter77]

Robert makes some great observations.

Why do we still allow commercial fishing on the AB lakes when they are not a renewable resource?

I have noticed a drastic change for the last 20 years in our sportsfishery. It is going downhill in AB. The average fisherman puts in a ton of money into the economy.

Should we allow nets in the lakes?

Thanks.

[I-Love-Eyes]

No we should not be allowing nets in the lakes but the government has the wool pulled over their eyes by a certain group of people...

[bsnyder]

Reading some of these posts makes me shake my head. It's funny when people talk about fisheries like it'll always be there. These are just my own musings and experiences that i'm going to share. Feel free to comment or move on.

I'm going to put a newfoundland spin on things for this post and talk about what the destruction of a fishery is really like.

Newfoundland had one of the richest natural resources in the world people - yep, the atlantic cod stocks. It was treated like a fully replenishable resource that we could tap forever - not so. Technology taught us that.

Factory trawlers from around the world started the race, then canada and newfoundland jumped in with their own trawlers. They raped the ocean floor in the race for the cod, destroyed the food chain as they went. Inshore fishermen - not unlike the people that are trying to rescue alberta fishing - cried foul, They knew there was a problem with the cod stocks long before it was admitted there was a problem - the cod stocks were dwindling but yet, the race kept on. In 1992 the race ended, the cod stocks were too far gone to keep a manageable fishery and everything came crashing down. By the time the proper rules, regulations and quotas were introduced it was too bloody late.

Human greed and greed alone caused the collapse of one of the richest natural resources in the world - it was a runaway train that couldn't be stopped. Countries could have made the choice to stop but they didn't, they kept up the free for all and some still are. Now that it's done, all that's left is the finger pointing. Seals, warming ocean currents, foriegn overfishing, whatever, all were blamed but yet, canadian trawlers took more than it's fair share.

There's fisheries all around the world that are in trouble today because of us. You name it, salmon stocks, crab and lobster, etc - it's a long list and i'm sure others can tack on more to that list.


So let's compare shall we? Some people treat the lakes here in alberta (and across canada) like it's a completely renewable resource, gonna get their share - But can these lakes cope from the heavy fishing pressure from humans? History dictates that they cannot and we never seem to learn from our mistakes.



Now personally, i'm a C&R fisherman, been fishing in alberta for 5 years now. And like many, i've caught and released many fish. I always use barbless hooks, take care in handling fish and yada yada yada. It's my personal choice to be catch and release, and the reasons matter to me but i'll share them with you.

Growing up, I took my share of fish of many species from waters around newfoundland. I did damage and left my own footprint back then that are causing repercussions today but knowing what I know now, I make a conscious choice to put back what I catch. Yeah, I like the taste of walleye and pike too but I can do without it and i'm sure we can all do with a little less.


I've said it before and i'll say it again, if people would learn to moderate themselves then we would have no reason for rules, laws and regulations. But as it is, we are ruled to death.



Again, just my musings and experience. Feel free to tear me apart if you wish.

Robert.

:wave:I agree totaly, as a C/R tournament fisher me and my wife have seen a drasti reduction in fish size in Alberta yet with slots in SASK the sizes are way more better.Keep the faith:D

[ULTRAlite]

Why do we still allow commercial fishing on the AB lakes when they are not a renewable resource?

I have noticed a drastic change for the last 20 years in our sportsfishery. It is going downhill in AB. The average fisherman puts in a ton of money into the economy.

Should we allow nets in the lakes?

Thanks.

x2 ban it!

[bsnyder]

Why do we still allow commercial fishing on the AB lakes when they are not a renewable resource?

I have noticed a drastic change for the last 20 years in our sportsfishery. It is going downhill in AB. The average fisherman puts in a ton of money into the economy.

Should we allow nets in the lakes?

Thanks.

x2 ban it!

:wave:X4-AMEN:wave:

[McLeod]

For the most part fishing in Alberta is much better than it was 30 years ago.
Except in the National parks but that is another issue.

[blackpheasant]

For the most part fishing in Alberta is much better than it was 30 years ago.
Except in the National parks but that is another issue.

X2 McLeod, the places that I fish today are as good and in many case's better now than it was 30 year's ago....:innocent:

[Cal]

Realy? are you fishing stocked trout ponds? I have noticed a pretty big decline in alot of the water I fish.

[blackpheasant]

Realy? are you fishing stocked trout ponds? I have noticed a pretty big decline in alot of the water I fish.

Really....Fishing River's and Resevoir's in Central and Southern Alberta...so I can't really speak for the area's that your fishing, these area's I'm talking about are all truely great fisherie's, it's not all doom and gloom out here...:innocent:

[wake]

I understand the concern and the need to conserve our fish populations amongst a whole smorg of other things in Alberta.But limits are put in place and it cannot be compared to the great Newfoundland cod collapse as the fish were in trouble from the start due to improper fisheries management or the complete lack that was ever put into it.Iceland still to this day has a succesful Atlantic cod fishing program and supplies most of the world with what Atlantic cod is exported, thanks to the icelandic goverments programs.

I personally want to share fishing with the next generation and with my son, teaching him to be responsible, Law obiding and to conserve his catch.But that eating fish is also one of the great rewards at the end of a succesful day...

[deanmc]

Robert makes some great observations.

Why do we still allow commercial fishing on the AB lakes when they are not a renewable resource?

I have noticed a drastic change for the last 20 years in our sportsfishery. It is going downhill in AB. The average fisherman puts in a ton of money into the economy.

Should we allow nets in the lakes?

Thanks.

Are you fishing whitefish mostly? The net fishing in our area is targeted at whitefish mostly. Keeping the thousands of 10 pound whites out of these lakes has helped the Walleye I think.

I know what you were saying, my remark was in agreement and directed at those who like to say that lakes with no regulations have better fishing and all that.

What lakes in AB have no regulations??:huh:

I understand the concern and the need to conserve our fish populations amongst a whole smorg of other things in Alberta.But limits are put in place and it cannot be compared to the great Newfoundland cod collapse as the fish were in trouble from the start due to improper fisheries management or the complete lack that was ever put into it.Iceland still to this day has a succesful Atlantic cod fishing program and supplies most of the world with what Atlantic cod is exported, thanks to the icelandic goverments programs.

I personally want to share fishing with the next generation and with my son, teaching him to be responsible, Law obiding and to conserve his catch.But that eating fish is also one of the great rewards at the end of a succesful day...


I agree, very well said Wake. Apples and oranges.

[Walleyes]

Yah I don't see the need for freekin out here.. Like I have said a few times before,, our fishery is as good if not better than a few years ago.. Now sure some lakes are feeling the pressure but over all I think we are in great shape.. Hell we should be its not like we can keep a damn thing anyways how the hell could they get fished out.. Eating themselves out maybe but fished out,,, nah we are O.k At least I can't see the sky falling but that just might be the veiw from in my boat who knows...

[robert]

Interesting responses people... But...

My posting wasn't about commercial fishing in alberta, it's in general. We've all read postings about fishing or lack thereof in alberta. Some say the fishing is great and better than it ever was, others say it's getting worse over the years - lake by lake of course. It's all in one's perspectives - how each of us see it.

What I am saying is when we get to the point that alarms are raised for some of these lakes, then it's going to be too late. And why I brought up the newfoundland cod stocks is to drive a point home that if it can be destroyed, then anything can be. That's the only point i'm trying to make.


I understand the concern and the need to conserve our fish populations amongst a whole smorg of other things in Alberta.But limits are put in place and it cannot be compared to the great Newfoundland cod collapse as the fish were in trouble from the start due to improper fisheries management or the complete lack that was ever put into it.Iceland still to this day has a succesful Atlantic cod fishing program and supplies most of the world with what Atlantic cod is exported, thanks to the icelandic goverments programs.

Fully understand what you're saying Wake, but again it's not about the cod stocks... If you recall, iceland had to exact measures to defend her stocks - went so far that the brittish were sending warships to defend it's trawlers. But I digress. You mention "improper fisheries management or the complete lack" - yet, i've heard it stated so many times that regs here in alberta are outdated and need to be updated - or that we need more regulations. So many - and i'm not bashing your opinion - are saying the same about alberta fisheries. That's got me scratching my head. There's a big difference of opinions on different subjects.


Yah I don't see the need for freekin out here.. Like I have said a few times before,, our fishery is as good if not better than a few years ago.. Now sure some lakes are feeling the pressure but over all I think we are in great shape.. Hell we should be its not like we can keep a damn thing anyways how the hell could they get fished out.. Eating themselves out maybe but fished out,,, nah we are O.k At least I can't see the sky falling but that just might be the veiw from in my boat who knows...

Nobody is freaking out Walleyes - not that i can see. If the fishery here goes to chit, won't be my fault but it will be my concern. Just making a posting about what i'm reading across all the boards. There are so many boards with concerned members posting - just sticking my 2 cents in. For example, there's a topic on here about lac st. anne and it's fishing woes - perch stocks are down, walleye are taking over and pike are fairly small and slinky... Yeah, i've seen it myself. Have a few secret spots on the lake that nobody else fishes and i've noticed it too. Caught 50 to 1 eyes to pike out there in a matter of a few hours one day. So what's the story there? Food chain a little off you think? What's causing it? And what's the fix? Should the government allow a daily take of walleye from the lake to allow other species to recover?

There's alot of people breaking the rules that we are supposed to live by. And fair or not, we are all contributors in some way.

That's all i'm saying.


For those of you who don't read all the forums in here, there's an interesting is the thread on sustenance hunting and fishing here:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=33661

[Sundancefisher]

Many times the problem with fish population declines can be attributed to habitat problems. Other factors include over fishing, season variation in juvenile recruitment due to drought or flooding or warm water or freezing temperatures. Natural winter and summer kill affects some lakes. I can tell when angling pressure has impacted a stretch of stream via beaten path and changing catch rates the further you get from the roads. Limits have been problematic IMHO as seen by the declines in pike, walleye, whitefish, perch, grayling, bull trout, cutthroat trout, etc. I think F&W is looking at these problems now and have been implementing measures over the years. Rules are needed when ever individuals can impact the resource as regulation is the only sensible and practical way to deal with it. Otherwise anarchy in the sport would lead to total collapse. To many people kill everything. Poachers would have a free for all. So seriously...we need the regulations and I feel IMHO that each and every creek, river, lake, beaver pond etc. should have their own location specific regulation. I do not see blanket regs working. BC has gone that route for good reasons.

Cheers

[savagencounter]

catch and release kills just as many fish if not more . Might as well keep a couple and go home (where allowed) alberta fishing is crap anyways, Let the natives net the hell out of a lake, let the farmers build a sewer right into the lakes and rivers, then after that put in a few chemical spills and oil companys toxic waste. Then tell the sportsman catch and relese only because the fishing pressure from anglers is killing off the stocks. I have never seen so much abuse and pure disregard for a natural resource in my life. Alberta fishing sucks and will continue to suck untill ALBERTINS start managing the water in a responsible manner. NEED some lessons have a look at our neighbors in b.c. GREAT fishing and well managed waters and guess what YOU CAN KEEP THE FISH. In general B.C can support natives,commercial and sportsfishing as well as preserving future stocks. What the hell is wrong with alberta? oh i know privitized everything , American wannabe goverment. I read half the crap written on hear sometimes i think im reading a forum based in nebraska, To many whiny american wannabes in alberta im thinking.

[robert]

catch and release kills just as many fish if not more.

Ok, you really have to back that one up savagencounter. And if not more than what?

[savagencounter]

Ok, you really have to back that one up savagencounter. And if not more than what?

what im getting at there is alot of people are unskilled in catch and release. Using 3prong hooks while fishing for pike and walleye and damaging the gills ive seen it happen lots. Now if someone who doesnt know how to catch and release properly catches 15 fish a day and maybe 5 die because of poor handleing or hooking then what is better? i say keep two fish and go home in the end its not the sports fishemen decreasing the stocks,pollution and net fishing seem to be the problem not the guy who wants to keep a fish or two. Catch and release isnt the answer.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

:wave:X4-AMEN:wave:

x299.
Getting rid of the commercial fishery when there already is enough pressure from everyday anglers let alone these guys with the big nets . I voiced my Opinions recently at the pigeon lake meetings about netting . I don't know It seems to me its glued in to these Biologists heads that everything is OK and there the magical cure . This province needs a 100 % catching ban for 10 to 15 years . Would be the best thing for it . It would rebuild some of our numbers . Wouldn'T it be nice to keep a walleye , other then having to spend 15.00 for the '' Walleye draw '' What are they using these funds for from this '' Walleye draw '' I asked this at the sportsmen show I was told 4 different answers . See even the people who are supposed to be making the rules and keeping our fishery a better place cant get there stuff together . My latest battle is about the perch from Lake sundance . Sure each species of fish has different genetics , and so on . But you cant tell me provinces like Manitoba and Ontario that are stocking 15 million fish of one species at one time are worried about genetics . I think the fishery will eventually work its self out . And what doesnt make it gets eaten or dies . And another # 1 thing we need to worry about is restoring our natural shorelines . Pee on the millionaire cottage owners who wanna cut down there weed beds just so it makes there million dollar cottage look pretty . If thats what they want go build your self a pond in your back yard in the city and enjoy your lake . We need to get on task fast before were screwed .

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

catch and release kills just as many fish if not more . Might as well keep a couple and go home (where allowed) alberta fishing is crap anyways, Let the natives net the hell out of a lake, let the farmers build a sewer right into the lakes and rivers, then after that put in a few chemical spills and oil companys toxic waste. Then tell the sportsman catch and relese only because the fishing pressure from anglers is killing off the stocks. I have never seen so much abuse and pure disregard for a natural resource in my life. Alberta fishing sucks and will continue to suck untill ALBERTINS start managing the water in a responsible manner. NEED some lessons have a look at our neighbors in b.c. GREAT fishing and well managed waters and guess what YOU CAN KEEP THE FISH. In general B.C can support natives,commercial and sportsfishing as well as preserving future stocks. What the hell is wrong with alberta? oh i know privitized everything , American wannabe goverment. I read half the crap written on hear sometimes i think im reading a forum based in nebraska, To many whiny american wannabes in alberta im thinking.
Id like to see some proof to your backing , But Ill agree that catching and releasing with such rigs as a Pickerel rig that is meant to deeply hook or Gut hook the fish which greatly increases its chance of death . But a simple jig caught in its lip Hmmmm unlikely to kill em .

[wildman]

hey robert!!!
welcome to alberta!!!!
sadly, if it doesn't mean oil revenues, the govt and about 80% of the pop'n don't give 2 sh!ts about it!!!!!
especially preserving natural resources!!!!!!
resources are to be pillaged and sold south of the border!!!!
funny you mentioned the cod fisheries....the oil sands are going exactly the same way....

[bsnyder]

catch and release kills just as many fish if not more . Might as well keep a couple and go home (where allowed) alberta fishing is crap anyways, Let the natives net the hell out of a lake, let the farmers build a sewer right into the lakes and rivers, then after that put in a few chemical spills and oil companys toxic waste. Then tell the sportsman catch and relese only because the fishing pressure from anglers is killing off the stocks. I have never seen so much abuse and pure disregard for a natural resource in my life. Alberta fishing sucks and will continue to suck untill ALBERTINS start managing the water in a responsible manner. NEED some lessons have a look at our neighbors in b.c. GREAT fishing and well managed waters and guess what YOU CAN KEEP THE FISH. In general B.C can support natives,commercial and sportsfishing as well as preserving future stocks. What the hell is wrong with alberta? oh i know privitized everything , American wannabe goverment. I read half the crap written on hear sometimes i think im reading a forum based in nebraska, To many whiny american wannabes in alberta im thinking.


:tongue2:bullcrap, catch and release does work and its proven!:tongue2:We always take special care with our realeses and our mortality rate is very low:)
I think we only actually lost one last year and my wife actually cryed about it:cry:

[Walleyes]

hey robert!!!
welcome to alberta!!!!
sadly, if it doesn't mean oil revenues, the govt and about 80% of the pop'n don't give 2 sh!ts about it!!!!!
especially preserving natural resources!!!!!!
resources are to be pillaged and sold south of the border!!!!
funny you mentioned the cod fisheries....the oil sands are going exactly the same way....


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Yes yes here we go again..

[Waxy]

Catch and release isnt the answer.

What is the answer then?

Waxy

[savagencounter]

What is the answer then?

Waxy

The answer is SWINE FLU, The problem i think with anything to do with conservation is there is just to many people on the planet now. If you think its bad now wait 15 years when our kids have more kids and so on. Fisheries needs to develope the swine flu to attack kill and destroy comercial fisheries,sustanace hunters, netters, and at least 2/3 of the human population to achieve its goals. Perfect problem solved, which reminds me i need my flu shot lol

[winged1]

For the most part fishing in Alberta is much better than it was 30 years ago.
Except in the National parks but that is another issue.
That's probably because a lot of Alberta's fisheries collapsed 30 years ago. The Eastern slope headwaters where blatantly overfished and it took a collapse for regs to change from (If I remember) a limit of 5 to a limit of 0 and closures on alternate years.

The Elbow river upstream of the resivoir was another blatant demonstration of inaction in response to a change of access to an otherwise prestine section of water.

BC's fresh water fisheries has had a barbless/ C&R for many years. I, as well as many others, had shared a wonderful fishery on the Skagit river where many fine 5+ lb rainbows could be caught in short river sections. When I moved back to Alberta in 96', I couldn't believe that barbless wasn't mandated.

[deanmc]

hey robert!!!
welcome to alberta!!!!
sadly, if it doesn't mean oil revenues, the govt and about 80% of the pop'n don't give 2 sh!ts about it!!!!!
especially preserving natural resources!!!!!!
resources are to be pillaged and sold south of the border!!!!
funny you mentioned the cod fisheries....the oil sands are going exactly the same way....

Are you trying to say that the oilsands will be netted to extinction?:evilgrin:

[Waxy]

The answer is SWINE FLU, The problem i think with anything to do with conservation is there is just to many people on the planet now. If you think its bad now wait 15 years when our kids have more kids and so on. Fisheries needs to develope the swine flu to attack kill and destroy comercial fisheries,sustanace hunters, netters, and at least 2/3 of the human population to achieve its goals. Perfect problem solved, which reminds me i need my flu shot lol

:rolleye2:

Waxy

[savagencounter]

:tongue2:bullcrap, catch and release does work and its proven!:tongue2:We always take special care with our realeses and our mortality rate is very low:)
I think we only actually lost one last year and my wife actually cryed about it:cry:

really so i guess you put a tracking device on the fish to see how long it survived? You really cant tell if the fish will survive after being hooked just because it swims away. No offence im sure your great at catch and realease but guaranteed 1000s are not. Bet 1 out of ten dies later maybe more.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

really so i guess you put a tracking device on the fish to see how long it survived? You really cant tell if the fish will survive after being hooked just because it swims away. No offence im sure your great at catch and realease but guaranteed 1000s are not. Bet 1 out of ten dies later maybe more.

Its simple Ban the use of Such rigs as Pickerel rigs , and the survival rate of fishing caught and released will be much more higher , as then the fish are getting hooked in the mouth not down its esophagus.As far as im concerned Pickerel rigs have 1 purpose to kill fish . Why use them if your catch and release fishing . Doesn't make sense .

[savagencounter]

Its simple Ban the use of Such rigs as Pickerel rigs , and the survival rate of fishing caught and released will be much more higher , as then the fish are getting hooked in the mouth not down its esophagus.As far as im concerned Pickerel rigs have 1 purpose to kill fish . Why use them if your catch and release fishing . Doesn't make sense .
i agree same goes for 3prong hooks not necessary at all.

[Walleyes]

Its simple Ban the use of Such rigs as Pickerel rigs , and the survival rate of fishing caught and released will be much more higher , as then the fish are getting hooked in the mouth not down its esophagus.As far as im concerned Pickerel rigs have 1 purpose to kill fish . Why use them if your catch and release fishing . Doesn't make sense .

I really don't understand where this comes from ???

I use pickerel rigs all though retied and modified for catch and release Sturgeon fishing constantly and Walleye and Goldeye are caught frequently on these rigs and released un harmed while we are Sturgeon fishing. They are no different than any other lure. What is the difficulty that you are having with these rigs ?? or is it just that you don't like them so they should be banned.

[packhuntr]

:lol:This is a real hum dinger. I like the way some guys think:scared:,,, D-U-H-Y-O.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I really don't understand where this comes from ???

I use pickerel rigs all though retied and modified for catch and release Sturgeon fishing constantly and Walleye and Goldeye are caught frequently on these rigs and released un harmed while we are Sturgeon fishing. They are no different than any other lure. What is the difficulty that you are having with these rigs ?? or is it just that you don't like them so they should be banned.

Yes If you modify them . Look at the original design . The two lines where the hooks come out . I don't think one can argue , without setting that hook in record time , your going to end up gut hooking that fish or in its Esophagus . Ive watched it plenty of times . People using telephone poles and winch line to cast these things out there because they have 20 pounds of lead to get it out there further . And they wait until the line is swimming before setting the hook . Well if you used a lighter rod , you might just detect the bite much faster , but then again who the hell am I . My self will never use a pickerel rig except for fishing trout in a stocked pond . Those fish are stocked in there to be killed and eaten . Otherwise I use Drop shot rig which I find to be way less harmful to the fish im catching .

[Freedom55]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A pickerel rig is a vertical presentation at best and was never meant to be cast into a river or any other place except the garbage bin. I used to use them when ice fishing for pike(notice that the words look a little like each other?pike? pickerel?) before I knew any better then changed to a quick-strike rig for large baits. I have a bag full of unopened rigs of every size that I get from my family every year for gifts. I keep them in case they ask.
The inherent problem with this type of hardware is the weight, first of all, the size secondly, plus the time it takes to apply the force of setting the hook while the rig changes its angle of attack when line force is applied to the centre of the contraption. Unless the bait is truly taken and self hooked into the pikes throat, they are not very efficient vertically either and generally results in a fatal wound to the fish. As Big Bad John suggests, try the drop shot method of tying up but add a Gibbs tube float to your line, matched to the sinker weight. Just a thought. Dave Si

[wake]

Its simple Ban the use of Such rigs as Pickerel rigs , and the survival rate of fishing caught and released will be much more higher , as then the fish are getting hooked in the mouth not down its esophagus.As far as im concerned Pickerel rigs have 1 purpose to kill fish . Why use them if your catch and release fishing . Doesn't make sense .

Really???

I dont know how many idiots I have seen that dont know how to fish have to pull a jig from the gullet of a walleye...Those walleye are dead.

Pickerel rigs I am sure are more likley to cause it since most anglers arent paying attention when still fishing.It can happen with almost any hook though..Watch your line and you should highly reduce your chances of killing or injuring fish...

Just one question...Is it just me or does it seem some people on here want to see fishing banned in Alberta alltogether? Seems to be the theme lately...

[deanmc]

Really???


Just one question...Is it just me or does it seem some people on here want to see fishing banned in Alberta alltogether? Seems to be the theme lately...

Some very arrogant people think they are the only ones that are able to fish properly.

[fish-man]

All this talk about how bad pickerel rigs are (but not other bait-fishing or still-fishing rigs... hmmm...) The most damage I've done to fish is probably with exensive treble-hooked lures. Last time I was out a friggin' hammer handle pick swallowed my Rapalla, getting all the hooks caught in his throat. What a mess... dead fish (presumably), I'm out $8:00... sucks.

I haven't been fishing as long as you guys have, but I'm under the impression walleye numbers have greatly increased in this province since the Catch and Release regulations have been instituted. Lots of anglers use bait, doesn't seem to harm the numbers too much.... (In fact, I can't remember ever deep-hooking a walleye, they always seem to get it right in the mouth no matter what I use.)

[savagencounter]

All this talk about how bad pickerel rigs are (but not other bait-fishing or still-fishing rigs... hmmm...) The most damage I've done to fish is probably with exensive treble-hooked lures. Last time I was out a friggin' hammer handle pick swallowed my Rapalla, getting all the hooks caught in his throat. What a mess... dead fish (presumably), I'm out $8:00... sucks.

I haven't been fishing as long as you guys have, but I'm under the impression walleye numbers have greatly increased in this province since the Catch and Release regulations have been instituted. Lots of anglers use bait, doesn't seem to harm the numbers too much.... (In fact, I can't remember ever deep-hooking a walleye, they always seem to get it right in the mouth no matter what I use.) trebel hooks should be banned if you cant hook a fish with one hook too bad, i hate trebel hooks just because they take too long to get out, havent used them in years when i moved to alberta i was surprised they wherent banned.

[Walleyes]

Yes If you modify them . Look at the original design . The two lines where the hooks come out . I don't think one can argue , without setting that hook in record time , your going to end up gut hooking that fish or in its Esophagus . Ive watched it plenty of times . People using telephone poles and winch line to cast these things out there because they have 20 pounds of lead to get it out there further . And they wait until the line is swimming before setting the hook . Well if you used a lighter rod , you might just detect the bite much faster , but then again who the hell am I . My self will never use a pickerel rig except for fishing trout in a stocked pond . Those fish are stocked in there to be killed and eaten . Otherwise I use Drop shot rig which I find to be way less harmful to the fish im catching .


Well I don't use a power pole for a rod,, I use a nice medium action rod with a med - heavy Spincast reel and 25# test Spiderwire very sensitive I can tell when a fly hits the line on this sucker.. Now here in lies the problem,, because of "some" peoples inability to fish a lure properly you want the lure "banned".. Kind of like when people want "all" atv's banned because of some people's inability to operate atv's properly.. And on and on and on we go until just about every F"in thing in this F"in world is banned and we can sit back in our F'in houses and dream about the days when we could actually go out and enjoy the outdoors..


HEY BRAIN WAVES I got an idea for yah all !!! how about we concentrate on educating people on issues rather than banning every F'in thing that just doesn't fit in our idea of a perfect world..

I just wish some times I could load up a truck with all you BANNER's and send you back in time behind the iron curtain in Russia cause you know what that's where some of you belong. Someplace where the government is in total control and in your eye's thats just perfect.

UNFRICKEN BELEIVABLE..

[savagencounter]

Well I don't use a power pole for a rod,, I use a nice medium action rod with a med - heavy Spincast reel and 25# test Spiderwire very sensitive I can tell when a fly hits the line on this sucker.. Now here in lies the problem,, because of "some" peoples inability to fish a lure properly you want the lure "banned".. Kind of like when people want "all" atv's banned because of some people's inability to operate atv's properly.. And on and on and on we go until just about every F"in thing in this F"in world is banned and we can sit back in our F'in houses and dream about the days when we could actually go out and enjoy the outdoors..


HEY BRAIN WAVES I got an idea for yah all !!! how about we concentrate on educating people on issues rather than banning every F'in thing that just doesn't fit in our idea of a perfect world..

I just wish some times I could load up a truck with all you BANNER's and send you back in time behind the iron curtain in Russia cause you know what that's where some of you belong. Someplace where the government is in total control and in your eye's thats just perfect.

UNFRICKEN BELEIVABLE..

contrary to what you might think your opinion isnt worth the the time to read knowit all.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Really???

I dont know how many idiots I have seen that dont know how to fish have to pull a jig from the gullet of a walleye...Those walleye are dead.

Pickerel rigs I am sure are more likley to cause it since most anglers arent paying attention when still fishing.It can happen with almost any hook though..Watch your line and you should highly reduce your chances of killing or injuring fish...

Just one question...Is it just me or does it seem some people on here want to see fishing banned in Alberta alltogether? Seems to be the theme lately...

Sure every lure , or method to catching fish has its risk of fish mortality , but using such rigs as a pickerel rig greatly raise that . This Province doesnt have the means to sustain a catch and keep fishery . Many fellas catch and release , but of those fellas how many are using pickerel rigs ? I doubt very many .

Why Ban fishing ? I'm not saying that . Look at these folk who are out fishing from shore 90 % of them are using a Pickerel rig with a # 1/0 or # 2/0 hook hooked to 2 oz or 4 or 6 Oz's of weight . How is that fishing ? I don't care if people do it . I'm saying . Snag there Esophagus and rip there guts out right out there mouth Ive watched it happen several times .If this province was catch and keep well these would be the rigs to use .

Well I don't use a power pole for a rod,, I use a nice medium action rod with a med - heavy Spincast reel and 25# test Spiderwire very sensitive I can tell when a fly hits the line on this sucker.. Now here in lies the problem,, because of "some" peoples inability to fish a lure properly you want the lure "banned".. Kind of like when people want "all" atv's banned because of some people's inability to operate atv's properly.. And on and on and on we go until just about every F"in thing in this F"in world is banned and we can sit back in our F'in houses and dream about the days when we could actually go out and enjoy the outdoors..


HEY BRAIN WAVES I got an idea for yah all !!! how about we concentrate on educating people on issues rather than banning every F'in thing that just doesn't fit in our idea of a perfect world..

I just wish some times I could load up a truck with all you BANNER's and send you back in time behind the iron curtain in Russia cause you know what that's where some of you belong. Someplace where the government is in total control and in your eye's thats just perfect.

UNFRICKEN BELEIVABLE..

I'm not pressuring to ban everything . People of this province want to sustain out fishery by other means then stocking well . Better start closing up some lakes or keep them strictly catch and release. Pickerel rigs are plan old fish killing devices . As I said in my above post get guys using size 1/0 and 2/0 hooks and let there smelt on there hook so they can sit around with the 50 people the brought along to the lake , meanwhile there line is moving as they've got a fish and reel that fish in oh wait its not just one fish 2 , and look at that his guts are hanging out its mouth . What do we do . This is what Ive seen , and surely you've seen similar things . Your not a stupid guy you get alot of time on the water also . You've seen this crap going on . As far as im concerned Pickerel rigs have no use in a catch and release environment . This province doesnt have what it takes so everyone can take home a fish .

[bobbypetrolia]

PICKERAL RIGS DO NOT KILL FISH! Inexperienced fishermen do!
One member on her says he has 'witnessed it several times'.....a fish taking a pickeral rig and swimming away with it while the line is moving and no one is on the other end of the pole setting the hook. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! While the fish is swimming away with the hook/lure/bait in its mouth, it IS NOT swallowing/digesting this hook/lure/bait.,,,,,,it is swimming away with it in its mouth (not gullet)..... Fish 'hit' a bait, then swim to a safe location to reposition the prey head-first to swallow it. This can take several minutes......anyone on the other end of a pole should recognize this movement of bobber/line/pole and set the hook in ample time to allow for catch-and-release of this fish. Or, just keep posting with absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about.

[fish-man]

I'm still not sure why a pickerel rig is more harmful than other methods of bait fishing or still fishing. I never use them myself, I find them annoying; I just look hooks to the line. However, I rarely deep hook fish, except for the odd stocked trout or goldeye in the river.

I'm not a big fan of progressively making fishing more and more restrictive, and nit-picking too much about what tackle can be used. If a lake is not able to survive a 100% catch and release fishery with barbless hooks, perhaps that lake needs to be closed to fishing or have a shorter fishing reason. Some fish are going to be killed regardless of what fishing technique is used.