Should Alberta institute a provincial park usage permit?

[geezer55]

My question comes out of camping in two different provinces this year on holidays. They both have a provincial park permit system, all park users from campers, hikers, fishermen, picnickers and equestrian users all have to have a permit to use the park. Personally I think it is a great idea, why are only the campers charged for the usage of provincial parks? The approximate fee was $5/day. You could get a daily, 3 or 7 day or a yearly permit. Before anyone says that the camping costs would go up, we were in Manitoba and the camping charge plus provincial permit costs were about 30.25/day. Saskatchewan charged us about 39.40/day. These costs in both provinces included electricity, firewood, showers and the use of the sewage dump. I compared a campground, Beauvais Lake, that we use quite a bit and their cost is about 31.10/ day and does not include firewood, showers and you have to pay to dump sewage. All these costs include a reservation fee.

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I’m just wondering if there were crowds of people that you seen in these provincial parks? I for one would avoid them just because I’m cheap lol

Not feeling it.

[last minute]

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks."WHY" What do you gain by this :thinking-006:

[hal53]

My question comes out of camping in two different provinces this year on holidays. They both have a provincial park permit system, all park users from campers, hikers, fishermen, picnickers and equestrian users all have to have a permit to use the park. Personally I think it is a great idea, why are only the campers charged for the usage of provincial parks? The approximate fee was $5/day. You could get a daily, 3 or 7 day or a yearly permit. Before anyone says that the camping costs would go up, we were in Manitoba and the camping charge plus provincial permit costs were about 30.25/day. Saskatchewan charged us about 39.40/day. These costs in both provinces included electricity, firewood, showers and the use of the sewage dump. I compared a campground, Beauvais Lake, that we use quite a bit and their cost is about 31.10/ day and does not include firewood, showers and you have to pay to dump sewage. All these costs include a reservation fee.

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks.
I can see a nightly fee for trailers that are hooked up to water, sewer and power. Those facilities cost big $ to install. But for day users??...those people are likely taxpayers.. they've paid for the park already.

[geezer55]

I have nothing to gain. BUT park users use washrooms, day use areas and garbage disposal, etc. which all that have cost. As a camper I pay for these cost in my fees, why do day users use these for free? Oh I pay taxes too. As for crowds, weekends the parks filled up just like here.

[coreya3212]

Why would anyone want to give the government more money to waste....good grief.

[tri777]

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks.

Would you also be for implementing such user fee's for shopping at the Mall?
Off leash dog parks?

[tirebob]

I have nothing to gain. BUT park users use washrooms, day use areas and garbage disposal, etc. which all that have cost. As a camper I pay for these cost in my fees, why do day users use these for free? Oh I pay taxes too. As for crowds, weekends the parks filled up just like here.

They are already paying basic fees through taxes. Some level of usage should come with that no? I mean if you are camping and using extra services you are paying a bit more for sure, but everyone still pays some.

[Grizzly Adams]

Provincial camp grounds are privately operated here, your fees go to a private contractor. Expensive and haven't seen many that would do us proud. Funny, some people are never happy unless they're making others pay for what we are entitled to by Nature. Air tax next ?:D

Grizz

[Dynamic]

I use provincial day use areas frequently, probably once a week during the summer. If there was a “day use fee” I would limit my visits or visit other recreation areas. These provincial parks are a great free activity for me and my kids and being able to go to these parks without worrying if I have enough cash. I don’t have a camper but if I did I would gladly pay the fee knowing that I’m paying for a spot in the campground.

If day use users had to pay a fee would I guarantee you campers would not have lower fees. Don’t give anyone new ideas for new fees!!!

[saddleup]

Short answer...................... No

[ram crazy]

I think we pay enough taxes already.

[sewerrat]

User fee for day use is not an bad idea, if you use the facility’s like washrooms, fire pits, picnic tables and so on is no different then when you get a tent site for 27.00.

After the day use people leave someone has to go and clean up the mess they leave behind. And that includes cleaning up the beach and mowing all the grassy areas.
.

[artie]

you rich guys want to keep making us pensioners pay until we go to our graves

[JareS]

Not a fan of it in Saskatchewan, wouldn’t be a fan of it here.

[Puma]

NO THANKS, we are over taxed now in Alberta. The unserviced camp grounds that were free a few years ago are 25 bucks a night now.

[CNP]

No. No to new fees. No to new taxes. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


What's wrong with people getting something for free (as you say)? It's not free anyway. The people who are day users are mostly local if there is any fishing opportunity, smaller percentage, still local, are hikers or picnickers...…………..leave us alone.


What is the motivation and what net benefit is your proposal going to achieve?

[ram crazy]

User fee for day use is not an bad idea, if you use the facility’s like washrooms, fire pits, picnic tables and so on is no different then when you get a tent site for 27.00.

After the day use people leave someone has to go and clean up the mess they leave behind. And that includes cleaning up the beach and mowing all the grassy areas.
.

What was wrong with having the inmates cut wood, and clean up the camp grounds, oh wait!! That inhumane because they have rights. The inmates used to cut wood and clean camp grounds and such. You used to pay $5 a night too, firewood included. The soft generation like to pay for everything now.

[michaelmicallef]

NO WAY! Pay enough for everything in this country already: No!

[raab]

If they charge anyone it should be the random campers all over the FTR. Those guys leave piles of garbage everywhere!

[Pathfinder76]

My question comes out of camping in two different provinces this year on holidays. They both have a provincial park permit system, all park users from campers, hikers, fishermen, picnickers and equestrian users all have to have a permit to use the park. Personally I think it is a great idea, why are only the campers charged for the usage of provincial parks? The approximate fee was $5/day. You could get a daily, 3 or 7 day or a yearly permit. Before anyone says that the camping costs would go up, we were in Manitoba and the camping charge plus provincial permit costs were about 30.25/day. Saskatchewan charged us about 39.40/day. These costs in both provinces included electricity, firewood, showers and the use of the sewage dump. I compared a campground, Beauvais Lake, that we use quite a bit and their cost is about 31.10/ day and does not include firewood, showers and you have to pay to dump sewage. All these costs include a reservation fee.

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks.

I pay enough tax thank you very much.

[Jayhad]

why are you trying to pull more money out of my pockets to recreate?

[Big Grey Wolf]

I would agree with a modest park user fee if the $$$ would go to developing more camping facilities, trails etc. However it would probably just go into General Revenue and be wasted as usual. We pay a user fee in our national parks so precedent already established.

[heretohunt]

It sounds like you are interested in the government running another business. They are historically bad at that. Most of the money will you be used up in the paper shuffle. UGG :thinking-006: provincial Parks also don’t include all recreational users like us hunters.
If you feel that you are not supporting the government enough you can always add a couple hundred on your tax return. :)

[caribou75]

Most places around the world charge to park in day use areas to support their upkeep. Most other provinces in Canada charge for use of provincial parks.

Its not just parks - public lands need more resources too. Our public lands are receiving more use and have far few resources.

I don't care whether its by user fees or taxes, i would like to see the budget for public lands increased. Probably don't need more taxes just a reprioritization from health and roads. I'd start by carving off 1% of the infrastructure budget that goes to unecessary repaving of Alberta's road network every few years.

I'd be happy to pay a $100 annual "eastern slopes" fee if they money went to outhouses and enforcement. AOHVA wants fees from registrations, but it needs to be broader than just motorized users. The average rig with $100,000 of investments and toys can afford $100 to maintain the sites they use and Canada's parks pass is a bargain - costs less for a year than a couple of nights at the movies.

[Dubious]

Paying to use provincial parks, no what a horrible idea :snapoutofit: couldn’t imagin how much wasted time and money they would have enforcing something like this in just fish creek.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

charging people to use the parks on top of what they already pay, is like having to pay for kids to use soccer fields and playgrounds in your neighbourhood.

More fees won't change how the parks are used or abused.

[RZR]

Why so the NDP can have more money to pizz away on more social programs for the dead beats in this province. You don’t think for one minute that the money would go back into parks do you. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Sledin]

A user fee makes more sense than funding out of the provinces coffers. If I use it I would rather pay than have to pay even if I don't use it, eg. Art exhibits.
The government is too free at spending on things I don't care about and pretty tight on things that do matter to me.
As long as park fees, fishing licenses and hunting licenses fund those activities and don't go general revenue where it funds things I don't agree with I'm glad to pay the fee.


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[rmatei]

The priorities of all levels of government are flawed. The Feds give 250 million to fund education and business opportunities for women in Africa, Provincial government wastes money on TV ads and mail-outs for the TransMountain Pipeline, and the Edmonton Mayor won't take responsibility for multitudes of municipal cluster.....s under his watch. Why in the h...l would anyone want to give the go ahead to any of these to tax and/or charge us more for things we have paid for in the past. People we have got to hold all levels of governments accountable to us for the things that matter to us in our daily lives and not allow them to spend on anything that does not address the needs of Canadians at home. I am sure that anyone with the wisdom of experience understands this.

[bobtodrick]

A user fee makes more sense than funding out of the provinces coffers. If I use it I would rather pay than have to pay even if I don't use it, eg. Art exhibits.
The government is too free at spending on things I don't care about and pretty tight on things that do matter to me.
As long as park fees, fishing licenses and hunting licenses fund those activities and don't go general revenue where it funds things I don't agree with I'm glad to pay the fee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So if you don't have a vehicle none of your taxes should go to road maintenance? The food you buy at Safeway get there by truck...so you are using the roads.
Your might not go to the art gallery...but your kids will go there with their school...or may go on their own before they are working and paying taxes.

[sirmike68]

This is where Turdeau is sending your money. Only $20 billion to date!

https://www.standtogetherforcanada.com/single-post/2016/11/24/Monies-Given-To-UN-and-Foreign-Countries-To-Date

[ssyd]

My question comes out of camping in two different provinces this year on holidays. They both have a provincial park permit system, all park users from campers, hikers, fishermen, picnickers and equestrian users all have to have a permit to use the park. Personally I think it is a great idea, why are only the campers charged for the usage of provincial parks? The approximate fee was $5/day. You could get a daily, 3 or 7 day or a yearly permit. Before anyone says that the camping costs would go up, we were in Manitoba and the camping charge plus provincial permit costs were about 30.25/day. Saskatchewan charged us about 39.40/day. These costs in both provinces included electricity, firewood, showers and the use of the sewage dump. I compared a campground, Beauvais Lake, that we use quite a bit and their cost is about 31.10/ day and does not include firewood, showers and you have to pay to dump sewage. All these costs include a reservation fee.

Personally I think all users should have to pay to use our provincial parks.

Why should I pay for your sewage services when I'm tenting it or just there for a day hike?

[ice]

The one free opportunity I have to enjoy myself... citizizen’s want that right stripped now?
Geesh

[bobtodrick]

Why should I pay for your sewage services when I'm tenting it or just there for a day hike?

Do you have kids...why should those that don't help pay your school taxes?
We all pay for stuff we don't take advantage of...and likewise many don't do things you do but help pay for them.
Do you people honestly not get that??

[hal53]

Do you have kids...why should those that don't help pay your school taxes?
We all pay for stuff we don't take advantage of...and likewise many don't do things you do but help pay for them.
Do you people honestly not get that??
I don't think this thread has as much to do with Provincial Park user fees as it does with the fact that people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns, other than the Gov't. squandering the money on their current " flavor of the month" to buy votes from certain groups to ensure their re-election

[bobtodrick]

I don't think this thread has as much to do with Provincial Park user fees as it does with the fact that people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns, other than the Gov't. squandering the money on their current " flavor of the month" to buy votes from certain groups to ensure their re-election

Here is the ranking of standard of living by country https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/these-countries-have-the-highest-quality-of-life
Canada is number two on the list. And people here think they are hard done by.
Get out and travel in the world a bit instead of just complaining behind your keyboard about how tough you got it.
The old '1st world problems'.
Sorry...I've travelled and know how lucky I am to live in this country, even if I don't necessarily agree with the current leadership.

[hal53]

Here is the ranking of standard of living by country https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/these-countries-have-the-highest-quality-of-life
Canada is number two on the list. And people here think they are hard done by.
Get out and travel in the world a bit instead of just complaining behind your keyboard about how tough you got it.
The old '1st world problems'.
Sorry...I've travelled and know how lucky I am to live in this country, even if I don't necessarily agree with the current leadership.
What on earth does that reply have to do with my comment?

[bobtodrick]

What on earth does that reply have to do with my comment?

You said "people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns"
Their 'giving' (taxes) has given them the second highest quality of life in the world. If you don't get the correlation than further discussion is pointless.

[hal53]

You said "people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns"
Their 'giving' (taxes) has given them the second highest quality of life in the world. If you don't get the correlation than further discussion is pointless.
You're right..if you're happy with the legacy you are leaving your grand children ( read debt), then no further discussion with you is required

[rmatei]

You said "people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns"
Their 'giving' (taxes) has given them the second highest quality of life in the world. If you don't get the correlation than further discussion is pointless.

Well like Hal53 says, Combined Canadian debt is 1.4 TRILLION, of that the Feds portion is 658 BILLION and the rest Provincial debt. People this is over 17000 per person. Every dollar that governments give to other countries is with additional borrowed money. Do you run your finances that way? I say no.

[Jack Hardin]

What was wrong with having the inmates cut wood, and clean up the camp grounds, oh wait!! That inhumane because they have rights. The inmates used to cut wood and clean camp grounds and such. You used to pay $5 a night too, firewood included. The soft generation like to pay for everything now.

I used to supervise inmates cleaning campgrounds and cutting firewood, out of the Nordegg Gaol (spelled jail in the U.S.) we went as far as 2 o'clock creek.

It's considered humiliating for inmates to be working in public view nowadays....feelings you know.

[BCSteel]

You said "people are sick and tired of giving more and more dollars to the Gov't. and seeing very little returns"
Their 'giving' (taxes) has given them the second highest quality of life in the world. If you don't get the correlation than further discussion is pointless.

A further discussion on government waste and socialist policies is a waste? Your right, further discussion with you is pointless.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[bobtodrick]

We're talking apples and oranges people.
The OP post is in regards to each of us paying taxes to support others interests, ignoring the fact that others pay taxes for interests you like but they don't.
The fact that the current government is misusing those tax dollars in a whole different discussion.
But complainers gonna complain...right?

[hal53]

We're talking apples and oranges people.
The OP post is in regards to each of us paying taxes to support others interests, ignoring the fact that others pay taxes for interests you like but they don't.
The fact that the current government is misusing those tax dollars in a whole different discussion.
But complainers gonna complain...right?
Yup, they are........:thinking-006:

[tirebob]

I used to supervise inmates cleaning campgrounds and cutting firewood, out of the Nordegg Gaol (spelled jail in the U.S.) we went as far as 2 o'clock creek.

It's considered humiliating for inmates to be working in public view nowadays....feelings you know.
Totally weird... I think if I was an inmate I would jump at the chance to get out of my pen and do some work out in nature. Hell I would consider it a reward! It isn't like these guys are on a pick and shovel chain gang...

[Tactical Lever]

I used to supervise inmates cleaning campgrounds and cutting firewood, out of the Nordegg Gaol (spelled jail in the U.S.) we went as far as 2 o'clock creek.

It's considered humiliating for inmates to be working in public view nowadays....feelings you know.

Just outfit them with burkas. This is a made in Canada solution. It's totally not against anyone's rights to wear one. Immigrants who want to fundamentally change Canada have fought long and hard to subjugate their womenfolk!
:angry3:

Opposed to more user fees. Just another way to penalize those who can least afford it. Pull off the road to eat a bagged lunch shouldn't be subject to fees just because it's a park.

Single parent's living on a low wage shouldn't have to pay to take the kids swimming at the lake. Already struggling with high taxes, paying for deadbeats, foreign aid, carbon tax that does nothing, plus a ridiculous amount of tax on the fuel for the vehicle which seems to ensure that the roads will surely pound a light duty vehicle to death.

I think it's been paid, paid, and paid for again.

The closest lake here is about a 20 km round trip down a poorly maintained gravel road. Then you get there, and you'd have to find (pay for) someone to set up camp just to collect money. I don't think there would be any netback having a full time employee chasing mountain bikes and people sitting at a picnic table.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

I used to supervise inmates cleaning campgrounds and cutting firewood, out of the Nordegg Gaol (spelled jail in the U.S.) we went as far as 2 o'clock creek.

It's considered humiliating for inmates to be working in public view nowadays....feelings you know.

The government went from having those work camps and having inmates do things, to not having it and housing human beings in warehouses.

Has nothing to do with the inmates not wanting to be seen in public and humiliation.

Idle minds, Idle hands breed more problems than it actually solve.

When the outcome is lack of programs and rehabilitation, and increase in recidivism because they lack the knowledge and skills when trying to integrate back into normal society, than you are essentially setting them up to fail.

Instead of increasing or adding fees for use of provincial parks, use the workforce you have behind bars, because they would be rather be outside working for peanuts, then staring at blank walls, and then you could actually decrease fees.

[Map Maker]

Sorry geezer55, i know you think your post is good intention but NO WAY should we have to pay for day use to OUR lands.

Sylvan lake just installed day use fees in their parking lots. Horrible idea.

Albertans work hard, and play harder. Free access to all lakes, rivers and mountains.
Money trickles in by economy.


Roads are part of infrastructure. Toilets are there so people dont poop in the bush in high use areas. Keep it free and open.

Hal and bobtodrick, why not pm your politic stuff to each other. No one cares.

[Off in the Bushes]

If I had to pay yet another fee to access a place that I am already camping it is going to be the straw that breaks me. Between gas, campground fees, fire wood the cost to us the Sani dump etc, over the coarse of the summer I could easily take me and the family on a Mexico trip for the same cost. I'd sooner spend my hard earned cash here, and support these people instead of out of the country. But I am just plain sick to dead of getting nickelled and dimed every time I turn around.

[Don_Parsons]

No, no, and no.

So last year Canada give $2 +++ billion over seas, then Eastern Canada's 2 largest Province took $10 billion out of our province.

Now they need another $1 billion soon to pay for folks crossing the Boarder. It will top $4 to $8 billion while the folks await a refugee hearing in 5 to 8 years from now.

All of us are on the hook for this as long as they are here, and they can sponsor family and friends to come here while on Canadian soil.

The system is a mess, your great great great grandchildren will be on the hook for multi trillions as Canada is soon to be one of the poorest countries in the world.

Something that was once free is long gone, Alberta had free Provincial park access many years ago including fire wood.

The prisoners in the province had something to do that they enjoyed, Innsfaild Alberta penitentiary had a live stock program where inmates learned a trade in farming, auto motive, farm Ag, carpentry, gardening, house keeping, and a chance to learn a trade with thier free time.

Now they waist our tax dollars, go figure Ahhhhhh.

Even if we forked out more funds for the Provincial Parks, they would still need more money to handle what money they can't handle all ready.

Plus the extra funds would disappear into their pockets and pension plans.

The people in Ontario are the highest group of people in debt then "ALL" around the world. Something like $29.000 for every man, woman, and child. For $350 billion debt.

Can you imagine how many generations it will take to pay the interest little lone the debt.

Yuppers, I'll camp for free where ever my wheels or feet take me, no stinking parks since the places we go don't have humans.

Not that I don't like humans, I just think we shouldn't be around them to much. LOL

[Tactical Lever]

If I had to pay yet another fee to access a place that I am already camping it is going to be the straw that breaks me. Between gas, campground fees, fire wood the cost to us the Sani dump etc, over the coarse of the summer I could easily take me and the family on a Mexico trip for the same cost. I'd sooner spend my hard earned cash here, and support these people instead of out of the country. But I am just plain sick to dead of getting nickelled and dimed every time I turn around.

I agree with you on all the little costs adding up. Camping and enjoying our crown land shouldn't be a luxury for only the well off. I don't mind a small fee if I am hauling a camper and using services, but why should a person be penalized for bringing a self contained unit and parking it in a spot overnight?

Park land is park land, and should not be a money making scheme for any level of government.

For the price of fuel with all the taxes, and lot fees it doesn't make sense to haul a trailer any distance any more.

A little off topic, but the prices and requirements for Canadian hunters to hunt the next province over are ridiculous also.