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Grizzly Adams
12-28-2018, 09:26 AM
From Tom Danniels with West Fraser Forest Products in the Mountainview Gazette. Thinking this is his personal opinion, but he's a professional forester with decades of experience. Some people obviously get it.


LETTER
Providing a different perspective
BY LETTER TO THE EDITOR DEC 25, 2018
Recently I read a letter to the editor from a Bragg Creek resident (“Bighorn Country an opportunity,” p. 23, Dec. 11 Gazette) about why a park in our backyard will be good for us. As a professional forester I would like to provide a different perspective.

I would need to be convinced about the notion that tourism jobs will bring more wealth to the region than the forest sector. What is important to know is how tourism dollars are calculated. Every time someone stays in one of the local hotels or eats at a local restaurant those are calculated as tourism dollars.

Yes, no doubt, some “tourists” stay in our local establishments, but by far and large hotel and restaurant visits are from those folks involved in our local industries.

Together those industries (including tourism) contribute to the local economy. To suggest that our economy would be better off without one of those contributors is not something I would agree with.

Are parks a good alternative to offset the impacts of climate change or flooding? I suppose I could put my head in the sand and think that putting a fence around a large area of forest is a good thing to moderate climate change and flooding. The truth is that our forests in Alberta are old. They are old because we have been aggressively fighting forest fires since the 1950s. Large landscapes of old forest are very unnatural and from an ecosystem perspective they are not good.

Such ecosystems only provide the type of environment that is good for animals and plants that like old forests. What about all the species that require young forests or a combination of old and young forests? Grizzly bears is one of those species that comes to mind. How will we create young forests if we do not disturb, harvest or burn old forests?

By forcing our forests to get older we have increased the risk of catastrophic fires or outbreaks of insects and disease like mountain pine beetle. Just drive through Jasper to see how well that management plan has worked out.

Think about the 1.4 million hectares of beetle-killed forests that went up in smoke this past summer in B.C. and how that might not be so good for climate change and flooding.

At some point we should wake up and realize that the fence idea around forests is not working. That we need to actively engage in managing forests and that managed disturbance of our forests is good for the ecosystem and good for Albertans.


We really have only two methods to introduce managed disturbance into our forests. Prescribed fires are a good option, but they cost us money. The other is to harvest the trees in an effort to gain some economic wealth while creating the disturbance.

Much of the research in the forest sector is focused on how we can harvest trees to create similar effects to that of burning forests. The closer we can emulate the effects of fire the better it will be for the ecosystem. The effects of fire are good for the ecosystem.

I am not advocating that we should be harvesting every forest area in Alberta. I am simply suggesting that putting a fence around an area and keeping disturbance out is not a good model. I realize that many people will not want to recreate in active harvest areas. That impact is only temporary and soon a regenerating forest will be growing on that site. At some point most would not even know that the forest had been harvested and all they see is – forest.

Waterton used to provide a hiking experience in old mature forests which I admit was pretty attractive. But that opportunity is more or less gone till the forests regenerate.

Kananaskis is a real-life example of exactly what I am suggesting. The more recent history of Kananaskis is that the area burned and was subsequently salvage logged and reforested in the 1930s to 1940s. As noted above most people only see the forests. Now there seems to be a lot of energy spent on keeping tree harvesting out because it will ruin . . . What exactly?

calgarychef
12-28-2018, 09:58 AM
From Tom Danniels with West Fraser Forest Products in the Mountainview Gazette. Thinking this is his personal opinion, but he's a professional forester with decades of experience. Some people obviously get it.


LETTER
Providing a different perspective
BY LETTER TO THE EDITOR DEC 25, 2018
Recently I read a letter to the editor from a Bragg Creek resident (“Bighorn Country an opportunity,” p. 23, Dec. 11 Gazette) about why a park in our backyard will be good for us. As a professional forester I would like to provide a different perspective.

I would need to be convinced about the notion that tourism jobs will bring more wealth to the region than the forest sector. What is important to know is how tourism dollars are calculated. Every time someone stays in one of the local hotels or eats at a local restaurant those are calculated as tourism dollars.

Yes, no doubt, some “tourists” stay in our local establishments, but by far and large hotel and restaurant visits are from those folks involved in our local industries.

Together those industries (including tourism) contribute to the local economy. To suggest that our economy would be better off without one of those contributors is not something I would agree with.

Are parks a good alternative to offset the impacts of climate change or flooding? I suppose I could put my head in the sand and think that putting a fence around a large area of forest is a good thing to moderate climate change and flooding. The truth is that our forests in Alberta are old. They are old because we have been aggressively fighting forest fires since the 1950s. Large landscapes of old forest are very unnatural and from an ecosystem perspective they are not good.

Such ecosystems only provide the type of environment that is good for animals and plants that like old forests. What about all the species that require young forests or a combination of old and young forests? Grizzly bears is one of those species that comes to mind. How will we create young forests if we do not disturb, harvest or burn old forests?

By forcing our forests to get older we have increased the risk of catastrophic fires or outbreaks of insects and disease like mountain pine beetle. Just drive through Jasper to see how well that management plan has worked out.

Think about the 1.4 million hectares of beetle-killed forests that went up in smoke this past summer in B.C. and how that might not be so good for climate change and flooding.

At some point we should wake up and realize that the fence idea around forests is not working. That we need to actively engage in managing forests and that managed disturbance of our forests is good for the ecosystem and good for Albertans.


We really have only two methods to introduce managed disturbance into our forests. Prescribed fires are a good option, but they cost us money. The other is to harvest the trees in an effort to gain some economic wealth while creating the disturbance.

Much of the research in the forest sector is focused on how we can harvest trees to create similar effects to that of burning forests. The closer we can emulate the effects of fire the better it will be for the ecosystem. The effects of fire are good for the ecosystem.

I am not advocating that we should be harvesting every forest area in Alberta. I am simply suggesting that putting a fence around an area and keeping disturbance out is not a good model. I realize that many people will not want to recreate in active harvest areas. That impact is only temporary and soon a regenerating forest will be growing on that site. At some point most would not even know that the forest had been harvested and all they see is – forest.

Waterton used to provide a hiking experience in old mature forests which I admit was pretty attractive. But that opportunity is more or less gone till the forests regenerate.

Kananaskis is a real-life example of exactly what I am suggesting. The more recent history of Kananaskis is that the area burned and was subsequently salvage logged and reforested in the 1930s to 1940s. As noted above most people only see the forests. Now there seems to be a lot of energy spent on keeping tree harvesting out because it will ruin . . . What exactly?


Well written letter, he forgot to mention the part where they spray to kill everything then plant conifers...totally missing the part of the regenerative process where the animals can actually thrive.

ESOXangler
12-28-2018, 03:53 PM
Well written letter, he forgot to mention the part where they spray to kill everything then plant conifers...totally missing the part of the regenerative process where the animals can actually thrive.

Hahaha ain't that the truth. How about the culverts and left over 5 gal jugs everywhere?

MountainTi
12-28-2018, 04:05 PM
Well written letter, he forgot to mention the part where they spray to kill everything then plant conifers...totally missing the part of the regenerative process where the animals can actually thrive.

Have you actually seen a reclaimed cutblock before? Maybe we frequent different areas. For me it is the west country, not sure about you. The dozens upon dozens of blocks I see are a combination of replanted pine, naturally reproducing spruce, and grass. Looks good to me

MountainTi
12-28-2018, 04:08 PM
Hahaha ain't that the truth. How about the culverts and left over 5 gal jugs everywhere?

When I block is reclaimed, the roads are as well. That means culverts are removed as well. But I'm sure you know that.
If you see what you perceive to be a mess, maybe contact the FMA owner. Perhaps a contractor left a mess, and they would like to know about it.
Or maybe it was a private block, contact the appropriate government agency, they will see it is cleaned up

ESOXangler
12-28-2018, 04:19 PM
Have you actually seen a reclaimed cutblock before? Maybe we frequent different areas. For me it is the west country, not sure about you. The dozens upon dozens of blocks I see are a combination of replanted pine, naturally reproducing spruce, and grass. Looks good to me

New growth forests usually consist of deciduous trees then eventually give way to old growth which is more coniferous trees. When the companies come in, remove a large chuck of biomass then plant what they want in rows it creates man made ecosystems. Eventually the soil is depleted of nutrients. Not to mention the spraying of cut blocks to kill other less desirable natural trees.

MountainTi
12-28-2018, 04:30 PM
New growth forests usually consist of deciduous trees then eventually give way to old growth which is more coniferous trees. When the companies come in, remove a large chuck of biomass then plant what they want in rows it creates man made ecosystems. Eventually the soil is depleted of nutrients. Not to mention the spraying of cut blocks to kill other less desirable natural trees.

Yep, that is why it is classified as agriculture. West country for example, pine is replanted, spruce regenerates on it's own. Not a lot of poplar, but what there is of poplar is generally left standing. Some remains, some blows over. Not sprayed. It comes back and I have seen a couple instances where it was thinned out with boots on the ground.
Many blocks the brush is all returned (depending on what is required by the government), as well as debris, (same material many people bitch about as they can't get their quads across) and scattered providing a ground cover of rotting materials to provide nutrients back to the soil.
Once again, I speak of the west country, which people seem to focus on

MountainTi
12-28-2018, 05:01 PM
Some light reading for all the logging "experts"...

https://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/formain15749/$FILE/TimberHarvestPlanning-OperatingGroundRulesFramework-Dec2016.pdf

ESOXangler
12-28-2018, 07:08 PM
Some light reading for all the logging "experts"...


No expert here but sounds like you are so hopefully you can shed some light on the spraying. All around swan hills to out by Robb the were spraying signs up. Noticed during blueberry season. Seen them out that way for years. Are they fake signs?

Don Andersen
12-28-2018, 07:55 PM
Mr. Daniels letter is strange is that there are no logging commitments within the Bighorn. Within the PlUZ there are logging, oil and gas, guiding, random camping and on and on.
Although, there was a huge swath of land clear cut to build the Damn.

Don

Grizzly Adams
12-29-2018, 09:50 AM
Mr. Daniels letter is strange is that there are no logging commitments within the Bighorn. Within the PlUZ there are logging, oil and gas, guiding, random camping and on and on.
Although, there was a huge swath of land clear cut to build the Damn.

Don

Part of California and BC's problems were over mature forests just begging to burn. Check out old pictures of Banff and Jasper, trees are noticeably absent. Then , compare it with today. Gonna be a lot of wining when they catch fire, which they will. Wood Buffalo is mandating fire breaks around new subdivisions. Pathetic little strips. When I suggested the fire actually managed to cross the Athabasca River, the reply from one of their officials was, they are only intended to "mitigate'. :lol:

Grizz

MountainTi
12-29-2018, 10:21 AM
No expert here but sounds like you are so hopefully you can shed some light on the spraying. All around swan hills to out by Robb the were spraying signs up. Noticed during blueberry season. Seen them out that way for years. Are they fake signs?

By no means an expert, but I was involved in the logging industry (running equipment) during a 4 year hiatus from the oil patch.
It gave me enough insight/experience in the industry that I :thinking-006: when seeing some of the comments from those not actually in the know on here.

I remember seeing a thread on Hunting Addicts (FB group) last winter about logging around burntstick. Was one guy, based out of Calgary from what I gathered, going on about how because of the logging, there wasn't a deer left within 20 miles of the blocks because logging scared them all away. Funny thing was, I was the one working in those blocks. We were overrun with deer in the block, dozens of deer on a daily basis. The deep snow was being knocked down enabling them to eat and I'm sure they felt safe around us from the overabundance of cats and wolves. I had to laugh, but of course never said anything.

If you read the link I posted, you will see there are many guidelines set out by the government that need to be followed. A lot of "rules". Officers make frequent visits out to blocks, as well as flyovers. If rules are broken, substantial fines can be given out (rutting, utilization, ect...). Companies such as West Fraser find it is in their best interest to make sure these rules are adhered to.....and they do.

Onto the spraying, I only spoke of the foothills west of here. I have yet to see any spraying done, although I'm sure it happens in areas where undesired brush, weeds, ect....need to be removed to promote growth of replanted and naturally occurring conifer seedlings. After all, it is an agricultural business. Gotta keep the population supplied with all things made of wood (guessing most on this forum live in a stick built house)
My guess would be more broadleaf sprays (Reclaim, Tordon, ect...) are used as the hundreds of blocks I have seen in my travels are covered in an abundance of forage for the wildlife. Far more grasses then when it was an old growth forest of pine (spruce)