Trafic ticket question.

[Fish along]

I recently got a ticket for passing in a turning lane.one of the guys I passed tailgated me and got my plate number and reported it saying that I almost caused an accident .I didn't nearly cause an accident ,but I did pass in a turning lane.My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies.:fighting0030:

[Deer Hunter]

How does he know you were driving?
Take it to the judge, knock it down, plead guilty to being the registered owner, save demerits.

[Joe Black]

How did you receive the ticket? Cop to your door? Did you tell/admit to anything? Did the guy who reported you have a dash cam?


If the answer is no, go to court. Ask for disclosure of the evidence against you after your court date is set. The prosecutor will need to get the guy who reported you to show up in court to testify. He/she probably won’t do that. If they do, you can then cross examine their testimony and testify on your own behalf. Get pictures, et. Of where it happened

[wolfman403]

You admit you passed in a turn lane and we’re in the wrong but you want to fight it. Makes sense.

[CNP]

You admit you passed in a turn lane and we’re in the wrong but you want to fight it. Makes sense.


^^^^^^^

[Blastoff]

Go to court likely the guy don’t show up,

[YYC338]

By your own admission you're guilty. Why do you think you deserve to get off?

Tickets are for other people, not you?

[Fish along]

How does he know you were driving?
Take it to the judge, knock it down, plead guilty to being the registered owner, save demerits.

No demerits they couldn't verify the driver,its a 500 dollar ticket.

[JonnyBoy0919]

If they reported you via license plate and didn't know you personally (couldn't ID you as the driver), then there will not be any demerit points. Either pay the ticket, or go to court and plead financial hardship in hopes that it is lessened.

[Fish along]

How did you receive the ticket? Cop to your door? Did you tell/admit to anything? Did the guy who reported you have a dash cam?


If the answer is no, go to court. Ask for disclosure of the evidence against you after your court date is set. The prosecutor will need to get the guy who reported you to show up in court to testify. He/she probably won’t do that. If they do, you can then cross examine their testimony and testify on your own behalf. Get pictures, et. Of where it happened

The ticket came in the mail,i don't think he had a dashcam,but im not sure

[alacringa]

You admit you passed in a turn lane and we’re in the wrong but you want to fight it. Makes sense.

Why are we in the wrong, if it was him who committed the infraction? I don't understand.

OP: you do the crime, you pay the fine. Please don't waste taxpayer dollars frivolously fighting a justly-deserved ticket.

[Joe Black]

Ther’re Fishing.

Pretty sure the guy who squealed on you may be a bit uneasy about facing you in court. A lot of social justice warriors out there if they think they can stay anonomouse .

[lannie]

How did you receive the ticket? Cop to your door? Did you tell/admit to anything? Did the guy who reported you have a dash cam?


If the answer is no, go to court. Ask for disclosure of the evidence against you after your court date is set. The prosecutor will need to get the guy who reported you to show up in court to testify. He/she probably won’t do that. If they do, you can then cross examine their testimony and testify on your own behalf. Get pictures, et. Of where it happened

Very good advice Joe. Make the wanna be cop show up too.

[pikergolf]

Man up, you did it, pay the fine and be better.

[kevinhits]

I recently got a ticket for passing in a turning lane.one of the guys I passed tailgated me and got my plate number and reported it saying that I almost caused an accident .I didn't nearly cause an accident ,but I did pass in a turning lane.My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies.:fighting0030:

Not sure how you can recieve a ticket without an actual dash cam proof?

I see it as there word against yours...I would fight it for sure...

on another note, you came on here and admitted your breaking the law, which is a stupid traffic move on your part as you described it....

[Fish along]

Not sure how you can recieve a ticket without an actual dash cam proof?

I see it as there word against yours...I would fight it for sure...

on another note, you came on here and admitted your breaking the law, which is a stupid traffic move on your part as you described it....

Its not just the passing In the turning lane it was reported that I almost caused an accident,Which is total BS, this is the part that bothers me.the reporter embellished his report to make me look bad in my opinion.

[harv3589]

Man up, you did it, pay the fine and be better.

Exactly, accept responsibility for your actions and just pay up. Speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.

[Deer Hunter]

Exactly, accept responsibility for your actions and just pay up. Speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.

I looked down the other day and I was speeding. Should I mail you the cheque?

Fish along: Fight it. Don't feel bad doing so.

[tri777]

Get off your high & mighty clydesdale horses some of you, good frgg'n grief..

[harv3589]

I looked down the other day and I was speeding. Should I mail you the cheque?

Fish along: Fight it. Don't feel bad doing so.

Fact is he got caught...like I said says a lot about who you are.

[Joe Black]

No.

He got squealed on by someone who is embellishing what happened(almost caused an accident). Shows what kind of character the squealer has.

That is why cops can issue tickets and social justice warriors can’t.

[RandyBoBandy]

We all know that every AO member here is a PERFECT driver. No way in HELL the PO-PO's could ever STICK a violation to any of us!! Besides the points, we have the GREATEST keyboard lawyers and Judges right here!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:
Continue on... :)

[R3illy]

Remember they need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the offense happened. I would fight the ticket. Like others have said the guy wont show up in court and if he did you could destroy him on the stand when he gets up there.

Set a court date and then 2 weeks before the trial request a new date. This is your right. They'll change it to 6 months later at which point this guy will definitely forget to show.

[Joe Black]

I consider myself more of an armchair lawyer

[Jays toyz]

Driving aggressive and passing someone where nobody should be can cause drivers to swerve or brake heavily. You can cause accidents by more than just causing someone to hit you.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Edited to be less unnecessarily dickish.

[Joe Black]

You forgot to mention the children

[Redneck 7]

I’d fight it. I pass in turning lanes if there’s someone turning in front of me on the highway, I’d never do it at a controlled intersection. I also get in the other lane to turn off the highway if it’s safe to do so. Is better then having someone slide into you or a distracted driver hit you.

[Fish along]

Exactly, accept responsibility for your actions and just pay up. Speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.
Was it you made who the report,If not you could have,You have no idea what kind of person I am,Certainly much better than you,your words speak volumes of your character.

[Joe Black]

It’s pretty clear. The OP should change the title of the thread to:

“I got a ticket and would like to execute my rights, so please start my azzripping immediately”

[Deer Hunter]

It’s pretty clear. The OP should change the title of the thread to:

“I got a ticket and would like to execute my rights, so please start my azzripping immediately”

Haha. Good one Joe!

[Jamie]

I have never heard of a ticket being issued on a simple complaint.. Is this something new?

I sure as heck would be heading down to the court house to figure this out.

[RandyBoBandy]

It’s pretty clear. The OP should change the title of the thread to:

“I got a ticket and would like to execute my rights, so please start my azzripping immediately”

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[rem338win]

No demerits they couldn't verify the driver,its a 500 dollar ticket.

You did it, you say you did it, but you are going to waste everyone elses time and money to.....say you didn't?

If you do, you're the reason our society is degrading. Don't care what else is said past that.

Own your mistakes the few times in life you are held accountable.

Passing in a mandatory turn is scary dangerous. You probably don't have a clue if you did or didn't cause anything because you created your own blind spots.

Let the perps chirp all they want. If you did it, own it.

[rem338win]

Was it you made who the report,If not you could have,You have no idea what kind of person I am,Certainly much better than you,your words speak volumes of your character.

And yours show you lack character.

You did it so pay the fine and don't waste tax dollars.

Rights are there to protect your innocence. Not to be abused when you've already admitted your guilt.

[rem338win]

I looked down the other day and I was speeding. Should I mail you the cheque?

Fish along: Fight it. Don't feel bad doing so.

Yeah he should. He said he did it. Lay the fine and stop waiting our time and money. What planet do you live on?

No.

He got squealed on by someone who is embellishing what happened(almost caused an accident). Shows what kind of character the squealer has.

That is why cops can issue tickets and social justice warriors can’t.

Or he did something really screwed up and is down playing it. You were there to see it?

He said he did it. Done deal. Pay the stupid tax and move in.

I swear this site becomes more like a bad episode of Donahue as time slides.

We should just start a new thread called "I done wrong and yet wanna get away with it. Tell me how and pump my tires..."

[raised by wolves]

No law enforcement can issue a ticket based solely on a private citizen's complaint. It must be witnessed or at least corroborated by multiple complaints and even then unlikely a ticket would ever be issued unless witnessed by a badged officer (city, provincial, federal). Either the private citizen that followed you and got your plate was an unmarked police car, was an off-duty cop that decided you were a danger but had bigger things to do at that moment in time than chase and pull you over, or you were picked up on camera by a street camera.

Or, it's a bogus ticket. Does it indicate where payment is required? A friend of mine received one in the mail, paid online only to find later it was a phishing scam. Pay fines only in person at a court house, police station, or registry office.

[Joe Black]

I agree with the above. He can plead not guilty, ask for the evidence against him(disclosure) to ensure it is ligit.

He can go to the JP at any time before his court date and strike a deal, or do it with the prosecutor the day of the trial if he does not want to proceed that day.

[Ken07AOVette]

No law enforcement can issue a ticket based solely on a private citizen's complaint. It must be witnessed or at least corroborated by multiple complaints and even then unlikely a ticket would ever be issued unless witnessed by a badged officer (city, provincial, federal). Either the private citizen that followed you and got your plate was an unmarked police car, was an off-duty cop that decided you were a danger but had bigger things to do at that moment in time than chase and pull you over, or you were picked up on camera by a street camera.

.

Wrong. Bad information to pass on.

[RandyBoBandy]

Wrong. Bad information to pass on.
AGREE, like I mentioned earlier, if you want some crappy ill advised advice, just read the drivel :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Fish along]

And yours show you lack character.

You did it so pay the fine and don't waste tax dollars.

Rights are there to protect your innocence. Not to be abused when you've already admitted your guilt.

So In paying the fine I admit that I nearly caused an accident as well,so if this was your ticket would you be willing to pay ? I have been driving for many years accident free ,if passing in a turning lane was the crime. I’ll pay it but did I nearly cause an accident no,you talk as if I have no rights .tell me another way to have my say without opposing the ticket .

[Dubious]

No face... no case as they say. Go to court and fight it.

[elkhunter11]

No law enforcement can issue a ticket based solely on a private citizen's complaint. It must be witnessed or at least corroborated by multiple complaints and even then unlikely a ticket would ever be issued unless witnessed by a badged officer (city, provincial, federal). Either the private citizen that followed you and got your plate was an unmarked police car, was an off-duty cop that decided you were a danger but had bigger things to do at that moment in time than chase and pull you over, or you were picked up on camera by a street camera.

Or, it's a bogus ticket. Does it indicate where payment is required? A friend of mine received one in the mail, paid online only to find later it was a phishing scam. Pay fines only in person at a court house, police station, or registry office.

A co-worker received a ticket based solely on one person's complaint that he was speeding and driving erratically. He chose to go to court, the complainant did not show up, and the ticket was dropped. The person that complained was righteous enough to file a complaint, but not righteous enough to show up in court.

It would be great if everyone that was guilty of a violation plead guilty, and saved the taxpayers the court costs, but when even the RCMP lies , as in the Vancouver airport incident, where they wasted even more time and money with appeals, after being found guilty ,how can we expect the average citizen to plead guilty?

[huntinstuff]

No law enforcement can issue a ticket based solely on a private citizen's complaint. It must be witnessed or at least corroborated by multiple complaints and even then unlikely a ticket would ever be issued unless witnessed by a badged officer (city, provincial, federal).

Oh ouch that is incorrect. Who ever told you that is mistaken.

The officer who takes the complaint obtains a statement from the complainant. If the elements of the charge are satisfied, the officer can write a ticket.

Thats how its even done for many criminal charges too actually....

If, after the officer obtains a statement, he/she isn’t satisfied or the elenents in his estimation are not present, the complainant has the option of swearing out their own information against the suspect at the courthouse.

[fordtruckin]

Not sure how you can recieve a ticket without an actual dash cam proof?

I see it as there word against yours...I would fight it for sure...

on another note, you came on here and admitted your breaking the law, which is a stupid traffic move on your part as you described it....

Yah biggest thing is you admitted your guilt on a public forum then ask for advice on how to get out of a ticket. That won’t look great if you take it before a judge.

[Ken07AOVette]

Aside from the inevitable pigpile that happens here constantly,

what were the circumstances of the pass? Were you avoiding someone slamming on brakes or failing to signal, or something that made the turning lane pass the only way out of an accident? Or did you just knowingly use the lane to save a couple seconds?
Any LEO will tell you it is your responsibility to avoid accidents, more information is required.

[Ebrand]

What is the specific offence?

Careless Drving ?

That information will shed light on what you are alleged to have done.

Passing in the turning lane is an extemely dangerous move. But it is one offence.

Careless Driving charge is a whole different can of worms. In court it will require a few more things than just passing in the turning lane.

[Rastus]

In whatever you can drive down the passing lane anytime you want as long as the lane is designated as a turn right or turn left. Where you get into problems is when you pass in a designated lane to turn right or turn left. I found this out the hard way.Example if the lane is designated turn left or right, and we have them, you can travel all you want. If the lane is designated turn left you must, at some point turn left, but it can be 2 blocks away.

[makin tracks]

you have nothing to lose by fighting the ticket, everyone has the right to there day in court, as already stated go to prosecutor request disclosure, talk to prosecutor just before court is in session, they can plea you down, or you can go in front of judge, no witness -your golden, witness- postpone trial, argue your case, win =lessons learned, lose= pay the fine , lessons learned.

no sense in rolling over like some have suggested, unless you want to?

[58thecat]

You admit you passed in a turn lane and we’re in the wrong but you want to fight it. Makes sense.

Yup first world problems eh.....I was guilty but it was everyone else's fault so help me play this down.:snapoutofit:


On another note man I hate it when I am making a left hand turn and so is the oncoming vehicle, I always look through the vehicle making the turn in from of me just to ensure that a meathead is not passing on the right which is a turning lane.....especially on my motorcycle....scarey when people just don't get the rules of the road, throw in a cell phone and you got a recipe for disaster.

[58thecat]

Yah biggest thing is you admitted your guilt on a public forum then ask for advice on how to get out of a ticket. That won’t look great if you take it before a judge.

Ya but its like having a mask on....no one knows me:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[JustBen]

No demerits? Only money?

Pay the ticket and pay more attention next time.

[JB_AOL]

Whoever was willing to go thru the time to call the police about it, is obviously willing to take the time to go to court. So, you'll end up paying anyways. Suck it up buttercup. Pay the fine.

Funny thing.. 9/10 the "guilty" driver doesn't realize they may have caused an accident behind them. My wife was in an accident exactly like that. Some ******* decided they wanted into the turn lane at the last minute (there was NO gap), he (or she) caused a 3 car pileup behind them without even realizing it.. Luckily all the cars in the accident had the same story so it was a no-fault accident.

[brass410]

take that puppy to court chances are its going to be dismissed at the very worst prosc will think that he's Bob Barker and want to play lets make a deal (frees up his time and the courts for real stuff like dui charges) anyways its unlikely that the accuser will show up realy who wants to spend hrs at the court having only to return several times because you need time to prepare or haven't had time to review the disclosure that crown has to provide make sure you ask for it a couple of days before court date.

[elkhunter11]

Whoever was willing to go thru the time to call the police about it, is obviously willing to take the time to go to court. So, you'll end up paying anyways. Suck it up buttercup. Pay the fine.

Funny thing.. 9/10 the "guilty" driver doesn't realize they may have caused an accident behind them. My wife was in an accident exactly like that. Some ******* decided they wanted into the turn lane at the last minute (there was NO gap), he (or she) caused a 3 car pileup behind them without even realizing it.. Luckily all the cars in the accident had the same story so it was a no-fault accident.

Actually calling the police does not mean that they are willing to go to court. People see something that they don't like, they get riled up, and they take a few minutes to make a call while they are still angry. However, when they calm down and realize that going to court will require them to commit a day, and perhaps miss work, they often decide that it isn't worth it to them. I know a co-worker that received a ticket in the mail like the OP did, but the person that complained, didn't show up in court. I have also heard people at work complaining about having reported people for their driving, but when it was time to go to court , they decided that it wasn't worth them taking a vacation day, or calling in sick from work to go and testify.

[bat119]

Passing in the turning lane ? Details are a little vague did OP go around a vehicle turning left at an intersection?

[Joe Black]

Actually calling the police does not mean that they are willing to go to court. People see something that they don't like, they get riled up, and they take a few minutes to make a call while they are still angry. However, when they calm down and realize that going to court will require them to commit a day, and perhaps miss work, they often decide that it isn't worth it to them. I know a co-worker that received a ticket in the mail like the OP did, but the person that complained, didn't show up in court. I have also heard people at work complaining about having reported people for their driving, but when it was time to go to court , they decided that it wasn't worth them taking a vacation day, or calling in sick from work to go and testify.

SJWS

Social Justice Warrior Snowflakes


they are all about justice if they can just squeal and not be inconvenienced at all, they feel they have done society a favour and are better for it.. most have no idea how the system works, and figure they are law enforcement, judge and jury.

mommy never said it would be like this,,,,,,

[Purple Farmer]

This thread is comedy gold and sure tells you a lot about members character.

Some of us teach our kids that when we do something wrong we admit what we have done and accept the consequences.

Others obviously do not.

This is a simple case of did you do it OP, yes pay the ticket, no go fight it.
The nearly causing an accident is a red herring, you either did what is on the ticket or you did not.

:)

[YYC338]

This thread is comedy gold and sure tells you a lot about members character.

Some of us teach our kids that when we do something wrong we admit what we have done and accept the consequences.

Others obviously do not.

This is a simple case of did you do it OP, yes pay the ticket, no go fight it.
The nearly causing an accident is a red herring, you either did what is on the ticket or you did not.

:)

Yeah, the era of taking personal responsibility for your errors seems to be behind us in this society.

It's not a case of right or wrong anymore, it's go to court, spend taxpayer's money and hope the complainant doesn't show and you can beat it.

Let's hope better ethics are displayed while hunting or shooting by this crowd.

[Glion]

You guys should go sit at the intersection of 37 and 28 by namao. If you are turning left everyone whips around you. I have even seen a popo do it. Blows my mind that noone cares but I guess it's ok if everyone does it.

[ceedub]

I witnessed a horrific accident 15 years ago on the Yellowhead at the 97 street exit caused by somebody that kept going and had no clue.

Craig

[sportman]

Obviously this whole issue is not about doing the right thing (ie. not breaking the law just because you feel like it) but about how to avoid the consequences for your actions. What a lesson for our children and grandchildren!

[Ken07AOVette]

You guys should go sit at the intersection of 37 and 28 by namao. If you are turning left everyone whips around you. I have even seen a popo do it. Blows my mind that noone cares but I guess it's ok if everyone does it.

Ever read the threads in here about speeding? Lol
The majority consensus (from the same guys everytime) is if you arent keeping up with all the other speeders YOU are the problem. I think people her were taught it by their parents and teach it to their kids. 110 on qe2? If you arent doing at least 125 you are a traffic hazard LOL! Gang mentality, hide in a crowd point fingers at everyone else.

[artie]

Many many years ago I was charged with unsafe passing by some guys who reported me.
We went to court as i wanted to see who charged me in a small town. That was a mistake.

Two guys I never knew that well showed up and testified against me.
I was found guilty had to pay the fine and had to pay witness fees for the guys to come to court against me.
After the dust settled I realized they did me a favor because I was in the wrong and could have caused a bad accident. my bad
Now I try to drive in a more safe manor. I was the stupid one.

[Walleye Willy]

You guys should go sit at the intersection of 37 and 28 by namao. If you are turning left everyone whips around you. I have even seen a popo do it. Blows my mind that noone cares but I guess it's ok if everyone does it.

What's the problem here? You are in a Left Turn Lane. The Right Lane is for through traffic.

[elkhunter11]

Yeah, the era of taking personal responsibility for your errors seems to be behind us in this society.

It's not a case of right or wrong anymore, it's go to court, spend taxpayer's money and hope the complainant doesn't show and you can beat it.

Let's hope better ethics are displayed while hunting or shooting by this crowd.

Very true, but this happens from the top down, from politicians, to police, to regular citizens. And then there are the people that complain about other people speeding or driving aggressively that post about their high powered cars and motorcycles, as if we are to believe that they never exceed the posted speed limit. And there are the Leo's that speed and ignore the regulations, because they consider themselves above the regulations. It seems to be all about do what we say, not what we do.

[huntsolo1]

This is some funny reading...but seriously, what did you expect posting this on here, of course you're going to get ripped! Just like the guy/gal who reported your infraction, people love being anonymous...

So I'll join in. As far as your original question, the OP...you're wrong, plain and simple...pay up. And I agree with the other folks here in regards to wondering how you know that "you didn't nearly cause an accident"? If you are routinely driving this way, ie with no respect for the rules and other people on the road, then hell, you probably did almost cause an accident and just weren't aware of it...either way, quit wasting the tax payers dollar and pay your fine...that's my rant anyway...

[Ken07AOVette]

Very true, but this happens from the top down, from politicians, to police, to regular citizens. And then there are the people that complain about other people speeding or driving aggressively that post about their high powered cars and motorcycles, as if we are to believe that they never exceed the posted speed limit. And there are the Leo's that speed and ignore the regulations, because they consider themselves above the regulations. It seems to be all about do what we say, not what we do.

Hmmm I haven't seen a bike or performance car thread in nearly a decade. Since these are things that interest me, you would think I would remember them.
Got a link?
:thinking-006:

[bobtodrick]

So In paying the fine I admit that I nearly caused an accident as well,so if this was your ticket would you be willing to pay ? I have been driving for many years accident free ,if passing in a turning lane was the crime. I’ll pay it but did I nearly cause an accident no,you talk as if I have no rights .tell me another way to have my say without opposing the ticket .

So you've been driving for years accident free.
Lots of people say can say that. Are you counting the times you've passed incorrectly or done some other boneheaded move and caused (or nearly caused) someone else to have an accident?
You're coming off sounding like all the self entitled young people we on this forum love to complain about so much.

[Jack Hardin]

How does he know you were driving?
Take it to the judge, knock it down, plead guilty to being the registered owner, save demerits.

And no insurance problems

[Jack Hardin]

Usually, but not necessarily, the police won't action the complaint unless the complainant agrees to testify in court if it goes to trial. If the complainant says he doesn't want to appear in court and it goes to trial, then the Crown doesn't have a witness and it is thrown out.

[Glion]

What's the problem here? You are in a Left Turn Lane. The Right Lane is for through traffic.

Unless they recently changed it the right lane is only for turning right according to the signs on the lights. The left lane is for through traffic and left turn. But vast majority of people whip around left turners as it is a large intersection.

[Weedy1]

You guys should go sit at the intersection of 37 and 28 by namao. If you are turning left everyone whips around you. I have even seen a popo do it. Blows my mind that noone cares but I guess it's ok if everyone does it.
What's the problem here? You are in a Left Turn Lane. The Right Lane is for through traffic.

Unless they recently changed it the right lane is only for turning right according to the signs on the lights. The left lane is for through traffic and left turn. But vast majority of people whip around left turners as it is a large intersection.

See here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.716185,-113.5001835,233a,35y,0.66t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

and here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.7160777,-113.5000754,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svBlNlE2PQmj-mPk6Cgu8Ig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

You can go through on 28 but not on 37.

[Fish along]

Aside from the inevitable pigpile that happens here constantly,

what were the circumstances of the pass? Were you avoiding someone slamming on brakes or failing to signal, or something that made the turning lane pass the only way out of an accident? Or did you just knowingly use the lane to save a couple seconds?
Any LEO will tell you it is your responsibility to avoid accidents, more information is required.

As I was approaching the intersection I saw debris of some sort in the middle of the road I thought it was ball cap or something wasn't sure ,I don't like driving over unidentified objects so at the last moment I pulled into the turning lane and passed.

[bobtodrick]

As I was approaching the intersection I saw debris of some sort in the middle of the road I thought it was ball cap or something wasn't sure ,I don't like driving over unidentified objects so at the last moment I pulled into the turning lane and passed.

Ahhh, so now all of a sudden there were reasons you had to to it :scared:
You are beginning to sound like a toddler who's been caught stealing cookies.

[Ken07AOVette]

As I was approaching the intersection I saw debris of some sort in the middle of the road I thought it was ball cap or something wasn't sure ,I don't like driving over unidentified objects so at the last moment I pulled into the turning lane and passed.

If you had time to verify there was no chance of incident in the right hand lane when you pulled over I do not think a Judge would convict based on that testimony. (Should have said that from the start, hindsight, etc)
However, yanking the wheel and ripping over on 2 wheels to get around someone in road rage or to miss an accident because you were distracted may have a different outcome.

[Glion]

See here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.716185,-113.5001835,233a,35y,0.66t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

and here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.7160777,-113.5000754,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svBlNlE2PQmj-mPk6Cgu8Ig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

You can go through on 28 but not on 37.

Thats what I meant on 37.

[Dubious]

Call the Edmonton version of pointts the armchair hanging judges on here seem to think this is a capital punishment case. You probably won’t even have to go to court and it’s not expensive. Best legal advice you can ever get is stop talking let your defence do there job.

[Badgerbadger]

You broke the law and want to avoid a ticket?

I think you should go to court, and tell the judge your story in detail as well as exactly what you think. That'll get you the satisfaction you deserve, probably.

Judges appreciate emotion, so you should probably tell how this has affected you, and inconvenienced you in the strongest terms you can muster.

:bad_boys_20:

[rens27]

As I was approaching the intersection I saw debris of some sort in the middle of the road I thought it was ball cap or something wasn't sure ,I don't like driving over unidentified objects so at the last moment I pulled into the turning lane and passed.

Was the turning lane you entered a left hand turning lane or a right hand turning lane? Was anyone in the intersection making a turn in any direction (not just the direction you were heading)? Were any vehicles directly in front of you making a turn? How many vehicles were directly in front of you before you entered the turning lane? Were there any vehicles directly behind you before you entered the turning lane? Were there any vehicles directly behind you after you entered the turning lane? What speed were you going? Approximately what speed were the vehicles directly in front of you and behind you doing? Did you execute mirror and shoulder checks before entering the turning lane? What about when exiting the turning lane? Did your rate of speed change at all during this event? Did your speed increase or decrease? Where was your cell phone during this event?

You can expect all those questions and more from the traffic crown.

If you did a d-bag move and drove around a group of cars because someone slowed down to turn or was driving slow then pay the ticket and chalk it up to a pricey error in judgement. Whether the complainant alleges you could have caused an accident is moot.

If you were legitimately making an unavoidable emergency maneuver then plead not guilty and get ready for court (pictures of the scene taken from the direction you were heading and an overview from google satellite maps would help).

[Joe Black]

doesn't need to answer any of those questions if the witness does not show up, or if he does not take the stand to testify, or if he can prove the crown's evidence is not worthy through cross examination. this isn't Judge Judy

pull a ghomeshi

[rens27]

doesn't need to answer any of those questions if the witness does not show up, or if he does not take the stand to testify, or if he can prove the crown's evidence is not worthy through cross examination. this isn't Judge Judy

pull a ghomeshi

You can't go into court hoping the witness doesn't show up. You better be prepared in case they do. But the point of my post is that if it was a jerk driving maneuver to get around a slower vehicle then man up and pay up. If not then fight it and be prepared to have to fight it. Not keep your eyes closed and fingers crossed hoping the person that complained doesn't show up. Anyone of the consultants at points or other traffic law offices would give the exact same advice.

[Ken07AOVette]

Was the turning lane you entered a left hand turning lane or a right hand turning lane? Was anyone in the intersection making a turn in any direction (not just the direction you were heading)? Were any vehicles directly in front of you making a turn? How many vehicles were directly in front of you before you entered the turning lane? Were there any vehicles directly behind you before you entered the turning lane? Were there any vehicles directly behind you after you entered the turning lane? What speed were you going? Approximately what speed were the vehicles directly in front of you and behind you doing? Did you execute mirror and shoulder checks before entering the turning lane? What about when exiting the turning lane? Did your rate of speed change at all during this event? Did your speed increase or decrease? Where was your cell phone during this event?

You can expect all those questions and more from the traffic crown.

If you did a d-bag move and drove around a group of cars because someone slowed down to turn or was driving slow then pay the ticket and chalk it up to a pricey error in judgement. Whether the complainant alleges you could have caused an accident is moot.

If you were legitimately making an unavoidable emergency maneuver then plead not guilty and get ready for court (pictures of the scene taken from the direction you were heading and an overview from google satellite maps would help).

Listen to this man. He has been in Court. I have seen this exact same line of questioning from the Defense Lawyer, generally along with:

How many vehicles were on the road- 'I don't know'
What was the weather like that day -'I don't know'
How many vehicles passed you or did you pass -'I don't know'

and then the Judge knows what is coming.

'Your Honor the person on the stand is not a reliable witness/can not answer the simplest of questions that are pertinent to show just that' and the Judge will give an answer you do not like.

[Joe Black]

"You can't go into court hoping the witness doesn't show up. You better be prepared in case they do. But the point of my post is that if it was a jerk driving maneuver to get around a slower vehicle then man up and pay up."


oh, sorry about that, i misunderstood.

i though the point of your post was to scare him out of taking it to court by going on and on about how he would be crucified by the crown.

that, and that 2/3 of your post dealt with that theme.

and besides you not liking the strategy of seeing if the crowns witness does not show up to testify, whats wrong with it?

the fact is you are innocent until the crown PROVES otherwise. that's how it works. if cops want to mail tickets for offences they did not witness, i see no problem with using any legal method to defend yourself.

[rens27]

"You can't go into court hoping the witness doesn't show up. You better be prepared in case they do. But the point of my post is that if it was a jerk driving maneuver to get around a slower vehicle then man up and pay up."


oh, sorry about that, i misunderstood.

i though the point of your post was to scare him out of taking it to court by going on and on about how he would be crucified by the crown.

that, and that 2/3 of your post dealt with that theme.

and besides you not liking the strategy of seeing if the crowns witness does not show up to testify, whats wrong with it?

the fact is you are innocent until the crown PROVES otherwise. that's how it works. if cops want to mail tickets for offences they did not witness, i see no problem with using any legal method to defend yourself.

The problem with that being your only strategy is you can be blindsided with it on the trial date. If that witness shows up the trial will proceed whether you have your evidence ready or not. Better to be prepared to go the whole 9 yards than be caught with your pants down. If the witness doesn't show up you haven't lost anything by being ready.

[barbless]

Was it a dash cam? Was a picture taken and by who? Did they just call in and say what you did? Where is the proof? Did the person who called in follow behind you and do the same thing? You made the mistake clearly and admitted it! Turning lanes are marked for turning not passing cause you won't wait. If you seen debri on the road then you should have been able to stop in time unless you were tailgating and didn't want to wait so you decided to do an unsafe maneuver close to an intersection. Naughty naughty. You do realize that you are not supposed to make up your own rules of the road to suit your needs RIGHT?? I would gladly take you out for a road test......as I am qualified to do so...... That would get you an otto fail in more ways than one. Bet you didn't signal at any point either. I could go on and on but your story gets pretty sketchy. Nuff said.

[rem338win]

So In paying the fine I admit that I nearly caused an accident as well,so if this was your ticket would you be willing to pay ? I have been driving for many years accident free ,if passing in a turning lane was the crime. I’ll pay it but did I nearly cause an accident no,you talk as if I have no rights .tell me another way to have my say without opposing the ticket .

You're not paying for a "nearly causing an accident" ticket. You are paying for using a turning lane as a passing lane.

No one is going to care if you did or did not cause an accident. It's a strict liability offence, so you'd basically have to arrive an lie to get out of it.

Pay your fine and stop wasting time and tax dollars.

Very true, but this happens from the top down, from politicians, to police, to regular citizens. And then there are the people that complain about other people speeding or driving aggressively that post about their high powered cars and motorcycles, as if we are to believe that they never exceed the posted speed limit. And there are the Leo's that speed and ignore the regulations, because they consider themselves above the regulations. It seems to be all about do what we say, not what we do.

Your tirades against authority are getting weirder and more stretched. I don't even know how you think this is in context.

[RandyBoBandy]

Aside from the inevitable pigpile that happens here constantly, I just learned a new thing today!! Brilliant description :)

what were the circumstances of the pass? Were you avoiding someone slamming on brakes or failing to signal, or something that made the turning lane pass the only way out of an accident? Or did you just knowingly use the lane to save a couple seconds?
Any LEO will tell you it is your responsibility to avoid accidents, more information is required.
Obviously he was behind you in the left lane on a highway( you doing the speed limit), got MAD, pulled into the left turning lane to pass you !! :sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcasticlol:

[elkhunter11]

You're not paying for a "nearly causing an accident" ticket. You are paying for using a turning lane as a passing lane.

No one is going to care if you did or did not cause an accident. It's a strict liability offence, so you'd basically have to arrive an lie to get out of it.

Pay your fine and stop wasting time and tax dollars.



Your tirades against authority are getting weirder and more stretched. I don't even know how you think this is in context.

What I posted was a response to the post that I quoted, which is the fact that today many people are not willing to take responsibility for their actions . It starts with a PM that has committed four ethics violations, RCMP officers that lied about the Vancouver airport taser incident, to people like the OP and his traffic violation. The only difference is that the OP's violation was minor by comparison, and he is not a person in a position of authority.

[Ken07AOVette]

Obviously he was behind you in the left lane on a highway( you doing the speed limit), got MAD, pulled into the left turning lane to pass you !! :sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcasticlol:


Nah, I have been driving the dgaf truck, I would have put him in the wall!!!

[rem338win]

What I posted was a response to the post that I quoted, which is the fact that today many people are not willing to take responsibility for their actions . It starts with a PM that has committed four ethics violations, RCMP officers that lied about the Vancouver airport taser incident, to people like the OP and his traffic violation. The only difference is that the OP's violation was minor by comparison, and he is not a person in a position of authority.

That logic is so twisted that it requires explanation.

We should make everyone unaccountable because you see a few being discredible.

Yes, let's degrade society entirely because you think we should.

Democracy is the issue. People don't want to be accountable or own their mistakes. So they elect and accept it above and below them.

That's apparent here. Way to take the low road elk, I am disappointed in you.

[elkhunter11]

That logic is so twisted that it requires explanation.

We should make everyone unaccountable because you see a few being discredible.

Yes, let's degrade society entirely because you think we should.

Democracy is the issue. People don't want to be accountable or own their mistakes. So they elect and accept it above and below them.

That's apparent here. Way to take the low road elk, I am disappointed in you.

You are missing the point entirely , the people in authority should set the example for the entire country. If the ruler of a country, and the people that are paid to enforce our laws set such poor examples , how can we expect the mere civilians to step up and accept responsibility for our actions? And when the police do catch criminals, our courts give them a slap on the wrist , and they are right back committing crimes. And our PM welcomes terrorists to our country, and gives millions to terrorists/murderers. And now the RCMP is considering dropping their standards even lower. So yes our society is a mess, and the biggest concern for some people ,seems to be traffic violations. It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

[260 Rem]

Being honest is pretty simple and is a personal standard. Taking responsibility for your own actions is also pretty simple and also a personal quality. Put them together and what have you got...INTEGRITY.

[Talking moose]

Being honest is pretty simple and is a personal standard. Taking responsibility for your own actions is also pretty simple and also a personal quality. Put them together and what have you got...INTEGRITY.

Honibility. Not sure how you get integrity out of it.

[Fifth Wheel]

Wow, what a thread! I scanned it with amusement -- as others have -- but would agree with the comments that the OP might just want to "suck it up" and pay the fine. That said, consider this:

1. Talking to a JP before court might save you a few bucks. They are usually pretty reasonable. Plus, if you are offered a lower fine in trade for a guilty plea, you can walk away feeling like you accepted responsibility but still "got a better deal." Note that they won't completely toss the charge without something clearly exculpatory.

2. Going to trial is a crap shoot. As mentioned, be prepared. And remember that if something comes out in trail that proves you were driving, the judge could rule that you pay the $500 fine plus have points assessed! (Maybe witness fees, too).

3. If both cases (1 & 2) you might want to ask yourself what your time is worth.

[lannie]

Being honest is pretty simple and is a personal standard. Taking responsibility for your own actions is also pretty simple and also a personal quality. Put them together and what have you got...INTEGRITY.

Do you stop off at the police station and ask for a ticket when you go 2 kms over the speed limit or are you only honest when it's convenient.

[rem338win]

You are missing the point entirely , the people in authority should set the example for the entire country. If the ruler of a country, and the people that are paid to enforce our laws set such poor examples , how can we expect the mere civilians to step up and accept responsibility for our actions? And when the police do catch criminals, our courts give them a slap on the wrist , and they are right back committing crimes. And our PM welcomes terrorists to our country, and gives millions to terrorists/murderers. And now the RCMP is considering dropping their standards even lower. So yes our society is a mess, and the biggest concern for some people ,seems to be traffic violations. It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

In sorry, the majority of Leo's set a bad example? And one PM, of many, has set the tone for all society, etc, etc.?

Sorry, as usual, you don't get it. If I cannot hold myself to a higher standard, I'll elect likewise.if I cannot hold myself accountable, I will expect likewise.

Mere civilians? Your logic is broken. I didn't realise I was a peasant, and they are lords...goo'ness massa I is so sorry I done di'int understan'.

I don't care about his ticket, or the funds it generates. I care you, and others, are blaise about an actually serious safety issue; the guy says hes guilty and half the people jawing are ok with him costing taxpayers thousands so he can go feel better or dump a couple of bucks. Don't whine about government waste and support that. That's hypocrisy.

And before you call it just a traffic ticket again, I've seen two fatalities caused by passing through a turn lane. Dead people with families because "just a traffic ticket" offense.

Neither of the people that caused it saw it coming. Weird. If they had they'd be murderers.

So the tickets have their place and it's to discourage normal people from killing other normal people. Instead of treating them like murderers. Get the difference?

You need to look your silly biases in the face and stop giving these people you love to hate so much more credit than "mere citizens".

[Ken07AOVette]

You are missing the point entirely , the people in authority should set the example for the entire country. If the ruler of a country, and the people that are paid to enforce our laws set such poor examples , how can we expect the mere civilians to step up and accept responsibility for our actions? And when the police do catch criminals, our courts give them a slap on the wrist , and they are right back committing crimes. And our PM welcomes terrorists to our country, and gives millions to terrorists/murderers. And now the RCMP is considering dropping their standards even lower. So yes our society is a mess, and the biggest concern for some people ,seems to be traffic violations. It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

Bs. That wasnt your point and you know it. You were getting shots in on forum members. Now you are swinging it this way??

[58thecat]

You are missing the point entirely , the people in authority should set the example for the entire country. If the ruler of a country, and the people that are paid to enforce our laws set such poor examples , how can we expect the mere civilians to step up and accept responsibility for our actions? And when the police do catch criminals, our courts give them a slap on the wrist , and they are right back committing crimes. And our PM welcomes terrorists to our country, and gives millions to terrorists/murderers. And now the RCMP is considering dropping their standards even lower. So yes our society is a mess, and the biggest concern for some people ,seems to be traffic violations. It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

So my question is to you this, what are you doing about it?

Never ask what a country can do for you, rather what can you do for your country?

To the OP....pay the dam ticket.....guilty as you indicated.

[elkhunter11]

In sorry, the majority of Leo's set a bad example? And one PM, of many, has set the tone for all society, etc, etc.?

Sorry, as usual, you don't get it. If I cannot hold myself to a higher standard, I'll elect likewise.if I cannot hold myself accountable, I will expect likewise.

Mere civilians? Your logic is broken. I didn't realise I was a peasant, and they are lords...goo'ness massa I is so sorry I done di'int understan'.

I don't care about his ticket, or the funds it generates. I care you, and others, are blaise about an actually serious safety issue; the guy says hes guilty and half the people jawing are ok with him costing taxpayers thousands so he can go feel better or dump a couple of bucks. Don't whine about government waste and support that. That's hypocrisy.

And before you call it just a traffic ticket again, I've seen two fatalities caused by passing through a turn lane. Dead people with families because "just a traffic ticket" offense.

Neither of the people that caused it saw it coming. Weird. If they had they'd be murderers.

So the tickets have their place and it's to discourage normal people from killing other normal people. Instead of treating them like murderers. Get the difference?

You need to look your silly biases in the face and stop giving these people you love to hate so much more credit than "mere citizens".

We live in a country that has changed a great deal, the leaders used to follow the rules, our current PM is the very first one to be found guilty of ethics violations. Our finance minister has also been found guilty of violations, another minister has lies on her immigration papers, and none of these people are being held accountable. Terrorists are welcomed back to our country, instead of being tried. The RCMP violated the trust of the citizens at the Vancouver airport, and at High River. So yes, in some ways, we aren't much better than peasants these days. As for myself, I have no criminal record, and my insurance company lists me as the lowest risk, because I don't get tickets, or cause accidents. I was actually issued a speeding ticket about 30 years ago, and I know for a fact that I was not driving the speed that the officer told me I was, but since he listed my court date as a Sunday, I just ignored the ticket, and nothing more came of it. I don't condemn every driver that chooses to exceed the posted speed limit by 5 or 10km/hr, as I do the same under certain circumstances. I doubt that there is a single AO member that can honestly say that they never , ever have exceeded the posted speed limit, but some of them feel that it's okay for them to do so, but not okay for anyone else. I have known people that let their PAL expire, or that didn't register their long guns, but I don't go around reporting them, I just make sure that I keep my PAL and operators license current. I have reported impaired drivers, because I felt that they presented a danger to the public, and I have reported poachers, because they are stealing the resource, but then I don't drive impaired, and I don't poach. I even insist that the youth hunters that I take out obtain their youth partner license, rather than just letting them shoot an animal, and having me tag it. I always come to a complete stop,at stop signs, just because there may be an officer around looking to hand out a ticket on a technicality, but I see people rolling through stop signs every day, and I don't pick up the phone to report them, because if they slowed to .5km hr, looked both ways , and proceeded when it is safe, I don't see the point. Ironically, many of the people that roll through stop signs, are older people that drive well below the speed limit, and complain about other people driving too fast.
I wasn't present when the OP passed in the turning lane, so I don't know what the circumstances were, and for that reason I wont just assume what he did was safe or unsafe. I also don't know who reported him, and whether that person was a driver that observes the regulations and honestly felt that the OP created a safety concern, or whether the person was just a person who was angry, and that does use his signals and drives while using his cell phone on a regular basis.

[bobtodrick]

You are missing the point entirely , the people in authority should set the example for the entire country. If the ruler of a country, and the people that are paid to enforce our laws set such poor examples , how can we expect the mere civilians to step up and accept responsibility for our actions? And when the police do catch criminals, our courts give them a slap on the wrist , and they are right back committing crimes. And our PM welcomes terrorists to our country, and gives millions to terrorists/murderers. And now the RCMP is considering dropping their standards even lower. So yes our society is a mess, and the biggest concern for some people ,seems to be traffic violations. It is a sad state of affairs indeed.

Or we can look at it another way. If no one takes personal responsibility for themselves, why should we expect our leaders too?
Why not just be concerned about how you lead your life instead of constantly playing the blame game.

[elkhunter11]

Or we can look at it another way. If no one takes personal responsibility for themselves, why should we expect our leaders too?
Why not just be concerned about how you lead your life instead of constantly playing the blame game.

Oddly enough, when I was in a leadership position before I retired, the management courses taught leading by example. We didn't have any courses about following by example. As I posted, I don't get tickets, because I don't go around blatantly flaunting the laws and giving the police reasons to issue me tickets. If everyone did as I do, there would be no murderers, or terrorists, or impaired drivers, or drug abusers, or poachers, or thieves, or trespassers , or EI/welfare scammers, and everyone would work to support themselves. Our society would be in a lot better situation, than it is today.

[Dubious]

Oddly enough, when I was in a leadership position before I retired, the management courses taught leading by example. We didn't have any courses about following by example. As I posted, I don't get tickets, because I don't go around blatantly flaunting the laws and giving the police reasons to issue me tickets. If everyone did as I do, there would be no murderers, or terrorists, or impaired drivers, or drug abusers, or poachers, or thieves, or trespassers , or EI/welfare scammers, and everyone would work to support themselves. Our society would be in a lot better situation, than it is today.

I wonder in this magical world where everyone would do as you do would there still be mental illness racism poor education inequality and intolerance you know the stuff that causes murders terrorists impaired drivers drug abusers poachers thieves and those darn petty trespassers.

[bobtodrick]

Oddly enough, when I was in a leadership position before I retired, the management courses taught leading by example. We didn't have any courses about following by example. As I posted, I don't get tickets, because I don't go around blatantly flaunting the laws and giving the police reasons to issue me tickets. If everyone did as I do, there would be no murderers, or terrorists, or impaired drivers, or drug abusers, or poachers, or thieves, or trespassers , or EI/welfare scammers, and everyone would work to support themselves. Our society would be in a lot better situation, than it is today.

This statement I am in total agreement with.
But the the thread has expanded from the OP taking responsibility for the mistake he made into something entirely different.

[graybeard]

There are three sides to every story:
1/ your side
2/ the accusers side
3/ the truth

The accuser has to ID you unless they charged you by registered owner. The judge presiding will be upset that this is taking up his time in his courtroom...However it is your right to be heard.

Under your own admission you did what you were accused of....Do what you have to do, to live with your conscience... IMHO.

Option: maybe leave five minutes earlier next time so these types of situations don't upset you....

I hope you were alone in your vehicle, with no kids watching your reactions....Just sayin...

[sns2]

Or we can look at it another way. If no one takes personal responsibility for themselves, why should we expect our leaders too?
Why not just be concerned about how you lead your life instead of constantly playing the blame game.


IMO, both viewpoints are valid, and cause for concern.

[rem338win]

IMO, both viewpoints are valid, and cause for concern.

And totally separate issues as well. Personal responsibiltiy and and ethics should never be abdicated because you don't like how leadership is behaving.

The high road is a hard one with valuable reward. The low road is cheap and sleazy.

If you feel your poor behaviour is justified by anyone else's poor behaviour, you are a problem.

If we all take the high road we won't have to worry about leaders being poor. We will choose quality ones by defacto.

[rem338win]

We live in a country that has changed a great deal, the leaders used to follow the rules, our current PM is the very first one to be found guilty of ethics violations. Our finance minister has also been found guilty of violations, another minister has lies on her immigration papers, and none of these people are being held accountable. Terrorists are welcomed back to our country, instead of being tried. The RCMP violated the trust of the citizens at the Vancouver airport, and at High River. So yes, in some ways, we aren't much better than peasants these days. As for myself, I have no criminal record, and my insurance company lists me as the lowest risk, because I don't get tickets, or cause accidents. I was actually issued a speeding ticket about 30 years ago, and I know for a fact that I was not driving the speed that the officer told me I was, but since he listed my court date as a Sunday, I just ignored the ticket, and nothing more came of it. I don't condemn every driver that chooses to exceed the posted speed limit by 5 or 10km/hr, as I do the same under certain circumstances. I doubt that there is a single AO member that can honestly say that they never , ever have exceeded the posted speed limit, but some of them feel that it's okay for them to do so, but not okay for anyone else. I have known people that let their PAL expire, or that didn't register their long guns, but I don't go around reporting them, I just make sure that I keep my PAL and operators license current. I have reported impaired drivers, because I felt that they presented a danger to the public, and I have reported poachers, because they are stealing the resource, but then I don't drive impaired, and I don't poach. I even insist that the youth hunters that I take out obtain their youth partner license, rather than just letting them shoot an animal, and having me tag it. I always come to a complete stop,at stop signs, just because there may be an officer around looking to hand out a ticket on a technicality, but I see people rolling through stop signs every day, and I don't pick up the phone to report them, because if they slowed to .5km hr, looked both ways , and proceeded when it is safe, I don't see the point. Ironically, many of the people that roll through stop signs, are older people that drive well below the speed limit, and complain about other people driving too fast.
I wasn't present when the OP passed in the turning lane, so I don't know what the circumstances were, and for that reason I wont just assume what he did was safe or unsafe. I also don't know who reported him, and whether that person was a driver that observes the regulations and honestly felt that the OP created a safety concern, or whether the person was just a person who was angry, and that does use his signals and drives while using his cell phone on a regular basis.

Cool story that has nothing to do with the topic, nor is it in context. You're soap boxing for the sake of your personal agendas, again.

None of what you say justifies a person, that knows they committed the offence, to burden our public system with frivality for the sake of their benefit. Taxpayers pay millions a year to support this unethical behaviour, and though we have a right to fair trial, it isn't ethical to excercise it when your are guilty and know you're guilty.

[Dean2]

I was avoiding commenting on this thread but I just can't restrain myself any longer. The simplistic world view demonstrated by so many on here is astounding. To believe that good people only ever do good and are completely morally centered is naive. To believe that good people will only elect good leaders is even more unbelievable. Recent history makes it very clear that bald faced lies, cheating, and generally disreputable behavior does in fact lead to great wealth, power and position, and not just in politics but pretty much every endeavor known to man. Rarely do people that become wealthy and get to the top through these activities ever pay any price, unless you believe in the after world.

Doesn't mean I think all people should act that way, it is a much nicer world when people behave ethically, help rather than hurt their fellow man and generally live the life of a "Good" person, but to think that is the path to glory, outside of the after life bears no resemblance to the past 100 years of recent history and particularly the last ten years.

To then apply this moral high ground argument to whether you should pay a ticket or not is REALLY out there. We are talking a traffic violation here, not murder and mayhem. Personally I could care less what the OP does about the ticket.

Happy New Year to all!

[Okotok]

I was going to toss out a parable or two but I like this better. ^^^^^^ :fighting0030:

[Rig-Rat]

Do you stop off at the police station and ask for a ticket when you go 2 kms over the speed limit or are you only honest when it's convenient.

Your missing the point, Nobody is saying just go voluntarily and say I was speeding. It's more about taking responsibility for your actions. Manning up and saying I messed up and got caught, so Pay the fine and learn from the lesson. Not coming on here saying he messed up and how does he get out of it.

[elkhunter11]

Cool story that has nothing to do with the topic, nor is it in context. You're soap boxing for the sake of your personal agendas, again.

None of what you say justifies a person, that knows they committed the offence, to burden our public system with frivality for the sake of their benefit. Taxpayers pay millions a year to support this unethical behaviour, and though we have a right to fair trial, it isn't ethical to excercise it when your are guilty and know you're guilty.
So how do you feel about the RCMP officers that were charged with perjury as a result of the Vancouver airport taser incident . They knew that they were guilty, yet they chose to plead not guilty, which resulted in a great waste of tax dollars. And then after being convicted, one chose to file an appeal based on technicalities, which resulted in more tax dollars being wasted. That nonsense cost the taxpayers far more than one driver choosing to challenge a traffic ticket.

[pikergolf]

Men take responsibility for their actions, boys try and avoid consequences at every turn.

[Mr Flyguy]

Honibility. Not sure how you get integrity out of it.

Forum members should be banned for two weeks for lousy spelling and making up words:

what the %$#@ is a trafic ticket? (per the original OP heading)

Honibility ??????

[Joe Black]

Your missing the point, Nobody is saying just go voluntarily and say I was speeding. It's more about taking responsibility for your actions. Manning up and saying I messed up and got caught, so Pay the fine and learn from the lesson. Not coming on here saying he messed up and how does he get out of it.

“Caught” , by who again???

[Joe Black]

Men take responsibility for their actions, boys try and avoid consequences at every turn.

Back to the same argument that if you truly believe that, every time you break the law, intentionally or not, turn your self in and face the consequences.(like a man)

And if you do not do this, it shows your true character.

Or does it only apply according to the following: “it’s not a sin unless you get caught.”

which character is flawed more? The above or a guy who fights a traffic ticket. Not sure.

I am sure that those that are pure as the driven snow are the only ones that can truly armchair judge the OP. You can have your opinions, but don’t judge.

[rem338win]

So how do you feel about the RCMP officers that were charged with perjury as a result of the Vancouver airport taser incident . They knew that they were guilty, yet they chose to plead not guilty, which resulted in a great waste of tax dollars. And then after being convicted, one chose to file an appeal based on technicalities, which resulted in more tax dollars being wasted. That nonsense cost the taxpayers far more than one driver choosing to challenge a traffic ticket.

Why would I feel different about this? Why does this effect your position on someone else being accountable?

I've made my position clear.

[Rig-Rat]

“Caught” , by who again???

So if I'm driving along and I see an impaired driver am I not supposed to report it? It must wait until an actual Police or RCMP see it for it to matter??
Same goes with a dangerous driver making unsafe maneuvers on the roads.
No different in my eyes. Report it so that driver gets "Caught".

[Joe Black]

Thanks for the clarification.


And yes I agree, getting reported is not the same as getting caught.

[Talking moose]

Forum members should be banned for two weeks for lousy spelling and making up words:

what the %$#@ is a trafic ticket? (per the original OP heading)

Honibility ??????

Don’t crie.

[Joe Black]

Yor terble

[mmhmmmm]

Please fight the ticket! Ignore all these guys talking ****. Citizens complaints shouldn’t result in tickets. I have been reported before out of straight jealousy. **** those people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmhmmmm]

So if I'm driving along and I see an impaired driver am I not supposed to report it? It must wait until an actual Police or RCMP see it for it to matter??

Same goes with a dangerous driver making unsafe maneuvers on the roads.

No different in my eyes. Report it so that driver gets "Caught".



Except that in your scenario they dispatch an officer to verify the complaint and follow up with charges!!! So yes, report everything. But it’s up to the police to prove it happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ShortsideK]

My honibility won't allow me to comment.

[pikergolf]

Back to the same argument that if you truly believe that, every time you break the law, intentionally or not, turn your self in and face the consequences.(like a man)

And if you do not do this, it shows your true character.

Or does it only apply according to the following: “it’s not a sin unless you get caught.”

which character is flawed more? The above or a guy who fights a traffic ticket. Not sure.

I am sure that those that are pure as the driven snow are the only ones that can truly armchair judge the OP. You can have your opinions, but don’t judge.

It's a character issue, some get it some don't. If I get a speeding ticket, I pay it. I don't bitch about it, I don't whine about it on a message board. In my mind I say I screwed up, I pay it. I never speed knowingly, yes I get a ticket about every five years. But never on purpose, ever. Honestly if I never got a ticket I would be unaware I was speeding.

And yes, it is only my opinion, but I form my opinions on others by how they behave with things like this.

[MrDave]

Gonna be awesome if the complaint is accompanied by a video from one of the thousands of dash cams on the road.

[Joe Black]

It's a character issue, some get it some don't. If I get a speeding ticket, I pay it. I don't bitch about it, I don't whine about it on a message board. In my mind I say I screwed up, I pay it. I never speed knowingly, yes I get a ticket about every five years. But never on purpose, ever. Honestly if I never got a ticket I would be unaware I was speeding.

And yes, it is only my opinion, but I form my opinions on others by how they behave with things like this.

But the fact is you are judging him.

You choose to pay a ticket when You receive it. Great.

Some people choose not to pay a ticket when they receive it. Great.

Does not make them less of a “man”,,,,,,,(unless you are judging them)

[barbless]

Ok, he got reported on for doing something someone else said happened. If true own up OP and pay up. Now if we all reported what everyone else does wrong while they drive holy K-wrap people give your heads a shake. It is endless. Where does it say you can just coast, through a stop sign straight or turning and not stop (accident ready to happen), coast through a red light on a right turn without stopping (same scenario),unsafe lane change or turns (right or left) without a signal (sure hope you paid $1500 less for that non option in your vehicle), just assume you are the only one on the road in a residential area ( stop absolutely nowhere at intersections or coming out of back lanes) and do the speed like it's your own road and nobody else is allowed to be on the road. The list is endless. The stupid sheeite that goes on every where is mind boggling. This is just a drop in the bucket. Now go ahead and report it, cause all these are and there are more potential accidents to happen. I see this every day cause I drive in all different areas and so do you but you seem to think the stop sign and red light turns are no big deal. Buck up and call it in and of coarse on your cell phone while your driving. Let's keep our police service in the office where they are safe to give out tickets. Holy krp people one person did something possibly wrong and you condemn and prosecute and judge. But I guess you are perfect. Everyone should have to do a retest on they're driving skills every three years. (Go ahead and disagree, you probably do the same as mentioned) The crap habits they develop are atrocious. Bring that up with your political views. Wow what a rant I feel better now but tomorrow I have to go out and deal with these IDIOTS, MORONS and A---W#OLE$ again. I feel better :love0025:

[RandyBoBandy]

We live in a country that has changed a great deal, the leaders used to follow the rules, our current PM is the very first one to be found guilty of ethics violations. Our finance minister has also been found guilty of violations, another minister has lies on her immigration papers, and none of these people are being held accountable. Terrorists are welcomed back to our country, instead of being tried. The RCMP violated the trust of the citizens at the Vancouver airport, and at High River. So yes, in some ways, we aren't much better than peasants these days. As for myself, I have no criminal record, and my insurance company lists me as the lowest risk, because I don't get tickets, or cause accidents. I was actually issued a speeding ticket about 30 years ago, and I know for a fact that I was not driving the speed that the officer told me I was, but since he listed my court date as a Sunday, I just ignored the ticket, and nothing more came of it. I don't condemn every driver that chooses to exceed the posted speed limit by 5 or 10km/hr, as I do the same under certain circumstances. I doubt that there is a single AO member that can honestly say that they never , ever have exceeded the posted speed limit, but some of them feel that it's okay for them to do so, but not okay for anyone else. I have known people that let their PAL expire, or that didn't register their long guns, but I don't go around reporting them, I just make sure that I keep my PAL and operators license current. I have reported impaired drivers, because I felt that they presented a danger to the public, and I have reported poachers, because they are stealing the resource, but then I don't drive impaired, and I don't poach. I even insist that the youth hunters that I take out obtain their youth partner license, rather than just letting them shoot an animal, and having me tag it. I always come to a complete stop,at stop signs, just because there may be an officer around looking to hand out a ticket on a technicality, but I see people rolling through stop signs every day, and I don't pick up the phone to report them, because if they slowed to .5km hr, looked both ways , and proceeded when it is safe, I don't see the point. Ironically, many of the people that roll through stop signs, are older people that drive well below the speed limit, and complain about other people driving too fast.
I wasn't present when the OP passed in the turning lane, so I don't know what the circumstances were, and for that reason I wont just assume what he did was safe or unsafe. I also don't know who reported him, and whether that person was a driver that observes the regulations and honestly felt that the OP created a safety concern, or whether the person was just a person who was angry, and that does use his signals and drives while using his cell phone on a regular basis.
Oh dear...Paragraph please??:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Captain Alberta]

If you can be absolutely certain that no convictions will appear on your driving record, and you don't wish to go through the hassle, and the ticket won't hurt you much financially, and you feel that you are actually guilty, then you may wish to pay the ticket. It is certainly the easy way out.

However, while paid tickets mailed out resulting from automated devices do not result in either demerits or convictions showing up on your driving record, I'm not so sure about witnessed driving offenses. If a conviction shows up on your record, it matters not if any demerits are assessed. Your insurance will increase substantially for several years. The $500.00 ticket will be peanuts by comparison. Insurance companies assess surcharges based on minor, major, and criminal driving convictions. Not demerits. A 5 Km speeding ticket will result in the same surcharge as a 20 Km ticket or a stop sign violation or a turn violation, etc.

You need to find out for sure before you do anything. The following information is useful for anyone going to court on a traffic ticket with demerits and convictions appearing.

If you choose to go to court, wait until the time limit for payment is within a week of expiring, and then go in in peson and plead Not Guilty and get your court date. Eating up time extends the period until your court appearance which might save you insurance money if you lose in court. That court appearance might then be up to a year after the ticket was issued.
Apply for disclosure at the Crown prosecutor office two months before your court date. No sense tipping them off to what your intentions are before you need to. Also, charges can be amended within 6 months of a ticket being issued, but not after. Write your own disclosure. Don't use the form given to you. Ask who the Crown witnesses are and their names and addresses. Ask for the officer's notes. Find out if there are two officers involved in a Lidar or Laser sting speed trap. They both must appear in court. Ask about the equipment used in a speeding ticket. Ask if the officers received training in the use of this specific device. Sometimes they have no training and you can challenge them in court.

If the complaint was anonymous, then the Crown will be unable to name a witness and the court case fails. If the witness doesn't show up then the court case fails. While you can question any witnesses to your heart's content, and they must be truthful, you do not have to tesify at all. The Crown can not question you unless you take the stand, so you don't have to admit that you were driving or were at the scene at all. (Only useful in the mailed out ticket situation) Obviously, be careful how you word your questions. Refer to the driver of your vehicle as "the driver" not "me" or you admit being that driver. Don't admit that you have any recollection of driving your vehicle in that area at that time if the judge asks you while you are questioning the witness. Don't admit that you recall if you loaned your vehicle out at that time. (Memories are tricky and unreliable things)

[tri777]

5.5 pages....
Frank says:
(@:54 my fav)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtUC9oVThg

[Jays toyz]

Please fight the ticket! Ignore all these guys talking ****. Citizens complaints shouldn’t result in tickets. I have been reported before out of straight jealousy. **** those people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Straight jealousy hey? You, your Dodge or your driving must really be something to see.

[Captain Alberta]

(Continued from my post #129)

A witness may not appear after a year awaiting trial, or have a clear independent recollection of the events back then. For a traffic ticket, the Crown may not even have interviewed him until after they received your disclosure request, if even then. He might have moved out of province, be hundreds of miles away, be on vacation, in hospital, or dead. He may simply not wish to testify or the Crown may not be able to contact him. He may not show up at trial because of other commitments or an emergency or distant work commitments.

So, there are many variables that must click into place to convict you. It's worthwhile to fight your case in court if it will affect your vehicle insurance premiums.

If everything rolls in the Crown's favor, you might lose in court. But, your ticket will probably carry a specified penalty, so the judge can not increase that amount. You might have to pay a minimal court fee though. ($20.00 ?) A witness fee? I don't know, but it would not be that much.

So, what do you have to lose if you have to pay the fine anyway if you don't go to court?

[Talking moose]

So a vindictive ex girlfriend only has to phone the cops and say she seen you driving like an idiot.......alrighty then....

[FCLightning]

So a vindictive ex girlfriend only has to phone the cops and say she seen you driving like an idiot.......alrighty then....

And you would know if the accusation was true or not and would act accordingly.

[Talking moose]

And you would know if the accusation was true or not and would act accordingly.

So since it wasn’t true I wouldn’t be found guilty?

[JD848]

You pay the ticket or fight it,it's not a murder charge or death of a loved one,your not going to do harsh time.I would step up and get it over with .There folk's driving around with more and more dash cams every day,due to all the distracted drives and hope they nail a pile.The police forces are over loaded so ever bit helps send out a message that were tired of being victims on the road and being injured.

I reported some guys 2 nights ago stealing stuff from a house being built next door,the thieves know it's not the guy ten house away who turned them inso they damage both the suv and my truck,now my wife is scared,so I will take care of my family and move on.I will not forfeit my freedom for some punk,period.To defend and protect my love ones in self defense I will do whatever has to be done.

Lives were lost all across Canada during the holidays which is way worst than some material stuff damaged up like my stuff and my heart goes out to all the families who lost loved ones.
Even SNS2 daughter had a very bad accident and thank god she is fine and in good health and still with her father who loves her more than we will ever know.These things are very important,the rest is just things that happen in every day life and won't stop tomorrow.

So lets not go into all the problem's in Canada and a minor street ticket ,live a good life,show respect and integrity in everything you do and things will sort themselves out even when you make a mistake.

So to all may god bless all your families with good health and happiness ,plus be good to each other in every way we can.

Cheers

JD

[waldedw]

so I've been reading these posts for the past couple mornings, it's entertaining reading during my morning coffee to say the least, WOW cant believe some of the diatribe written here, sounds like some guys are auditioning for a spot on the Dr. Phil or Jerry Springer show ............................ but like I said its entertaining reading :argue2:

[FCLightning]

So since it wasn’t true I wouldn’t be found guilty?

Getting a ticket is not the same as being found guilty. I'm pretty sure you know this and are being obtuse.

[58thecat]

Men take responsibility for their actions, boys try and avoid consequences at every turn.

Woman and girls too:)

[R3illy]

Gonna be awesome if the complaint is accompanied by a video from one of the thousands of dash cams on the road.

that's why you ask for disclosure. I hope the OP fights the ticket. I'm with others who think it's the police who should be handing out tickets not random joes on the road.

[bat119]

If you were traveling on the highway at 110 kms. with a speed indicating dash cam recording the vehicles passing exceeding the speed limit do you think the cops would mail them tickets if reported?

[Talking moose]

If you were traveling on the highway at 110 kms. with a speed indicating dash cam recording the vehicles passing exceeding the speed limit do you think the cops would mail them tickets if reported?

No. Radar has to be approved and re calibrated often for proof of accuracy. Doubtful courts would accept it.

[liar]

that's why you ask for disclosure. I hope the OP fights the ticket. I'm with others who think it's the police who should be handing out tickets not random joes on the road.
i believe the ticket came from the court or prosecutor , not a motorist . if i read you correctly , the courts should dismiss public complaints ? think about that for a minute .

[C2C3PO]

I think what is being said is that rather than a ticket be issued solely as a result of the information and accusation by one party that instead it should, at the very least, be accompanied first by a thorough investigation by a police officer.

I am well aware that there are rural jurisdictions that will write out tickets and send them in the mail without ever following up with the "offender" to see what if any mitigating information they can provide.

Some have eluded to the issue of "wasting taxpayers money", however I believe there is an equal responsibility by law enforcement to do their job by verifying an actual offence took place and that there is at least a reasonable likelihood of success in court before a ticket is issued.

[Talking moose]

i believe the ticket came from the court or prosecutor , not a motorist . if i read you correctly , the courts should dismiss public complaints ? think about that for a minute .

A barmaid could serve someone 10 beer and watch him drive away. She could phone him in and the police could go to his house immediately. They can’t charge him with an impaired. A woman can get in an argument with her boyfriend. She could then smack her eye against something causing a black eye. She can call the cops saying her bf punched her. He can be charged and go to jail. Crazy hey?

[Captain Alberta]

that's why you ask for disclosure. I hope the OP fights the ticket. I'm with others who think it's the police who should be handing out tickets not random joes on the road.

You must absolutely apply for disclosure from the Crown. If you do not, then the Crown can simply hand you a package at trial containing what they "think" may be relevant disclosure. Such information given to you at such short notice may be useless without time to consider it and formulate a planned defense. Often it will include a DVD of any recorded video evidence, but where will you play it to review it while in the court house? Kind of ridiculous, but I have seen them do it.

The Crown must give you any evidence, video or otherwise, that they intend to use as evidence at trial. I had forgotten to mention the video evidence in my earlier post, so thanks for the reminder.

Obviously, if that video evidence is damning, then you might choose not to pursue your case after all. But as I previously mentioned, the witness may not appear in court for some reason. Without the testimony of the person who recorded that evidence and submitted it, that evidence may not be admissable at trial at all. After all, you as defendant have the absolute right to question witnesses about ALL evidence that they submit.

Photo radar ticket camera operators must appear in court as witnesses to substantiate their evidence, even though they merely pushed a button while sitting in their vehicle. No witness, no conviction.
Similarly, automated cameras that record speeding and red light infractions still require that the person who sets them up and verifies their accuracy appear in court as a witness at trial. No witness, no conviction.

Depending on whether you will receive a traffic conviction which will appear on your driving record should be your main consideration. If so, then IMHO it is essential to fight that ticket so that you don't pay substantially increased insurance premiums for several years. For a $200.00 photo radar ticket, why bother? It affects nothing.

You may not win in court, but then again, you might. A specified penalty ticket can not be increased by the judge, but you might have to pay $20.00 or so extra as a court fee of sorts, and possibly a small witness fee if there is a third party civilian Crown witness. (A guy who reported you to police)

It's all about insurance IMHO. Even a $500.00 one-time fine can be easily amortized over a year fairly painlessly, so a photo radar or red light camera ticket might be not worthwhile to fight. But if you have to pay that much (or more) in increased insurance every year for 6 years for a driving conviction, then you could be looking at thousands of dollars.

So, find out which is the case and then decide, in accordance with your own
situation or pocketbook.

[barsik]

ultimately, the traffic act is a set of guidelines which are meant to get us to our destinations as safely and as quickly as possible, with the safety portion being the more heavily weighted portion of the equation. passing traffic in a left turning lane is not in the defensive driving bible. would some of the forum members pass a school bus in the same maneuver? as someone who used to ride a sportbike, aggressive and inattentive drivers are why I no longer ride. I was not a saint but they were dangerous.

[Weedy1]

My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies.:fighting0030:

Yes, end of story...

[barbless]

Thanks for the info Captain Alberta. I have a few friends that can and will try your steps. And for :barsik::snapoutofit: sorry to say but it seems after a license has been issued to the driver they have opted out of DDC (defensive driving course) or PDIC (professional drivers improvement course) and gone to the ADA (always drive aggressive) or IAAM (it's all about me) out of my way :sHa_sarcasticlol: :sHa_sarcasticlol: This has definitely been a good thread. Some good info to pursue, some to ponder and some to put in the K-WRAP pile. Ha Ha entertainment and information at it's best???? 5 pages of what the? You know :happy0180:

[bobtodrick]

Please fight the ticket! Ignore all these guys talking ****. Citizens complaints shouldn’t result in tickets. I have been reported before out of straight jealousy. **** those people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you read the OP where he admitted he did it, right?

[rem338win]

A barmaid could serve someone 10 beer and watch him drive away. She could phone him in and the police could go to his house immediately. They can’t charge him with an impaired. A woman can get in an argument with her boyfriend. She could then smack her eye against something causing a black eye. She can call the cops saying her bf punched her. He can be charged and go to jail. Crazy hey?

This isn't what we are talking about.

First, I don't know single cop that will mail a ticket based on civilian witnesses only with a ticket. Pretty dang rare.

Second, the OP says he did it. So.........

[58thecat]

Six pages on OP admittedly said he/she was guilty of the offence....wow eh!

[Talking moose]

This isn’t about whether the op is guilty or not..... he’s already admitted that.... what people are wondering is how can one civilian say that another civilian broke the law and be charged for it based on from what someone says??? (Unless he indeed has video proof). Without video proof I can say so and so yanked 1000 bucks out of my hand and took off? Maybe get 1000 bucks out of him through the courts? In my mind there has to be video proof of this incident or the op wouldn’t of been fined.

[R3illy]

i believe the ticket came from the court or prosecutor , not a motorist . if i read you correctly , the courts should dismiss public complaints ? think about that for a minute .

Wheres the danger in writing tickets based off an uneducated, untrained, random person. People get annoyed by random drivers even tho their not doing anything wrong so lets write a ticket based off some ticked off motorists complaint on someone who may not have done anything wrong.

These type of tickets are becoming more and more common. Theres definite issues in writing a ticket for any complaint from any random Joe.

[R3illy]

You must absolutely apply for disclosure from the Crown. If you do not, then the Crown can simply hand you a package at trial containing what they "think" may be relevant disclosure. Such information given to you at such short notice may be useless without time to consider it and formulate a planned defense. Often it will include a DVD of any recorded video evidence, but where will you play it to review it while in the court house? Kind of ridiculous, but I have seen them do it.

The Crown must give you any evidence, video or otherwise, that they intend to use as evidence at trial. I had forgotten to mention the video evidence in my earlier post, so thanks for the reminder.

Obviously, if that video evidence is damning, then you might choose not to pursue your case after all. But as I previously mentioned, the witness may not appear in court for some reason. Without the testimony of the person who recorded that evidence and submitted it, that evidence may not be admissable at trial at all. After all, you as defendant have the absolute right to question witnesses about ALL evidence that they submit.



On the topic of disclosure I've had police submit photos mid trial for a ticket I was fighting in court. I objected on the grounds I've requested disclosure and it wasnt provided but the judge allowed it.

I ended up winning the case due to the photo but it didnt sit well that the police were not providing full disclosure as required and why a judge would allow new evidence in the middle of a trial.

I'm sure if I had a lawyer It wouldnt have been allowed but I'm just some guy fighting a ticket.

[YYC338]

Wheres the danger in writing tickets based off an uneducated, untrained, random person. People get annoyed by random drivers even tho their not doing anything wrong so lets write a ticket based off some ticked off motorists complaint on someone who may not have done anything wrong.

These type of tickets are becoming more and more common. Theres definite issues in writing a ticket for any complaint from any random Joe.

Dude, pay attention. Your comments are irrelevant to this conversation. The OP says HE DID IT. It's really case closed right there. We don't need 6 pages of irrelevant posts.

If you admit to doing something wrong and you receive a ticket for the infraction you just man up, take your punishment and learn from the experience.

[enfield303]

I think most on here should re- read the post!!
He is not denying doing something wrong .
He is denying what he is accused of.
Big difference folks!!! It would be like punching someone in the mouth and then getting charged with murder. I know that's a stretch but some folks need it to understand.

"I recently got a ticket for passing in a turning lane.one of the guys I passed tailgated me and got my plate number and reported it saying that I almost caused an accident .I didn't nearly cause an accident ,but I did pass in a turning lane.My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies."

[Captain Alberta]

On the topic of disclosure I've had police submit photos mid trial for a ticket I was fighting in court. I objected on the grounds I've requested disclosure and it wasnt provided but the judge allowed it.

I ended up winning the case due to the photo but it didnt sit well that the police were not providing full disclosure as required and why a judge would allow new evidence in the middle of a trial.

I'm sure if I had a lawyer It wouldnt have been allowed but I'm just some guy fighting a ticket.

I am inclined to agree with you. Sometimes judges play a bit fast and loose with the law if you are not a lawyer, and don't know how to state the correct objection. I do know that if you attempted to introduce any new witnesses or evidence at trial that the Crown prosecutor would strenuously object and that the trial would be rescheduled. Saw it happen.

It is possible I suppose that if your disclosure request asked for officer's notes and a list of Crown witnesses, but did not ask specifically for photographs, then they felt that they did not have to supply them. Hard to say.

Still, depriving you of evidence that they knew that they had seems very unjust and a Charter violation regarding the right to a fair trial.

[Captain Alberta]

Dude, pay attention. Your comments are irrelevant to this conversation. The OP says HE DID IT. It's really case closed right there. We don't need 6 pages of irrelevant posts.

If you admit to doing something wrong and you receive a ticket for the infraction you just man up, take your punishment and learn from the experience.

It is NOT "case closed". It is only case closed if you admit guilt and pay the ticket. However, since we live in a democracy and have Charter rights to a fair trial, you are entitled to plead Not Guilty and go to court. Also, someone hypothetically discussing guilt or innocence under a pseudonym in a public forum isn't an admission of guilt. After all, who is actually using the AOF account? The person who registered, or someone else who happens to know the password?

As far as "manning up" I think that would depend on the financial consequences. I think that many people who claim that they would pay the ticket to demonstrate their honor and integrity would meekly become hypocrites if they discovered that the price of this would be steep.

If your auto insurance rates would increase from $1400.00 a year (for example) to $1900.00 a year for 5 years ($2500.00 total cost), then you might not be so anxious to plead guilty. Also, if you already have a minor violation on your license, who knows what the cost might be for two convictions.

It's always easy to tell others to just take the financial hit when you won't have to pay a nickel yourself.

[YYC338]

I think most on here should re- read the post!!
He is not denying doing something wrong .
He is denying what he is accused of.
Big difference folks!!! It would be like punching someone in the mouth and then getting charged with murder. I know that's a stretch but some folks need it to understand.

"I recently got a ticket for passing in a turning lane.one of the guys I passed tailgated me and got my plate number and reported it saying that I almost caused an accident .I didn't nearly cause an accident ,but I did pass in a turning lane.My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies."

And it's not uncommon for someone to cause an accident or nearly cause an accident and be totally oblivious of the whole situation. Just because the OP wasn't aware of what may or may not have happened around him doesn't mean there wasn't an issue.

In reading all the posts I haven't noticed where the OP said he will willingly pay the fine. And remember he's not being charged with causing an accident here. He's admitted to what he's been charged for, nothing more and nothing less.

The fine should be paid and the OP should still feel he got a break in that an accident didn't occur from his infraction and no one was hurt or killed. He got off lucky with just a fine.

[pikergolf]

It is NOT "case closed". It is only case closed if you admit guilt and pay the ticket. However, since we live in a democracy and have Charter rights to a fair trial, you are entitled to plead Not Guilty and go to court. Also, someone hypothetically discussing guilt or innocence under a pseudonym in a public forum isn't an admission of guilt. After all, who is actually using the AOF account? The person who registered, or someone else who happens to know the password?

As far as "manning up" I think that would depend on the financial consequences. I think that many people who claim that they would pay the ticket to demonstrate their honor and integrity would meekly become hypocrites if they discovered that the price of this would be steep.

If your auto insurance rates would increase from $1400.00 a year (for example) to $1900.00 a year for 5 years ($2500.00 total cost), then you might not be so anxious to plead guilty. Also, if you already have a minor violation on your license, who knows what the cost might be for two convictions.

It's always easy to tell others to just take the financial hit when you won't have to pay a nickel yourself.

You can justify anything if you try hard enough.

[R3illy]

Dude, pay attention. Your comments are irrelevant to this conversation. The OP says HE DID IT. It's really case closed right there. We don't need 6 pages of irrelevant posts.

If you admit to doing something wrong and you receive a ticket for the infraction you just man up, take your punishment and learn from the experience.

I wasnt referring to the op but speaking to why it's a bad idea to let any random joe request a ticket to be written. If a cop will write a ticket from anyones request at anytime then it's a major slippery slope.

[Joe Black]

As mentioned in a few posts, the answer is “ yes” . Tickets will be issued without proper investigation. I’m thinking this case is exactly that. They are fishing on the basis of a complaint by a squealer. I’m not sure why some think cops/ law enforcement would not do this. Like “they know it’s wrong and wouldn’t do it”. Yah right. They will throw it to a wall and see what sticks. That is fact.

That is why in this case it is my opinion that the OP use every and all options available to him to fight the process by which he is being accused. Talk about wasting taxpayers money, what about the cops and prosecutors thinking the public is so uneducated and sheepish that they will just roll over?

Social engineering at its best. Maybe if enough civilians would stand up against social justice warriors and cops in cases like this, they would think twice about accusing individuals without any evidence other than a squealers complaint.

I could be wrong. Maybe the officer did investigate. Maybe there is a mountain of evidence. Pleading not guilty and asking for FULL disclosure of ALL evidence to be presented at the trial such as but not limited to et, et, et, et, et, et, should bring to light what the grounds were for issuing this ticket against the OP.

[pikergolf]

As mentioned in a few posts, the answer is “ yes” . Tickets will be issued without proper investigation. I’m thinking this case is exactly that. They are fishing on the basis of a complaint by a squealer. I’m not sure why some think cops/ law enforcement would not do this. Like “they know it’s wrong and wouldn’t do it”. Yah right. They will throw it to a wall and see what sticks. That is fact.

That is why in this case it is my opinion that the OP use every and all options available to him to fight the process by which he is being accused. Talk about wasting taxpayers money, what about the cops and prosecutors thinking the public is so uneducated and sheepish that they will just roll over?

Social engineering at its best. Maybe if enough civilians would stand up against social justice warriors and cops in cases like this, they would think twice about accusing individuals without any evidence other than a squealers complaint.

I could be wrong. Maybe the officer did investigate. Maybe there is a mountain of evidence. Pleading not guilty and asking for FULL disclosure of ALL evidence to be presented at the trial such as but not limited to et, et, et, et, et, et, should bring to light what the grounds were for issuing this ticket against the OP.

And maybe if enough people spoke out against law breakers and testified our society wouldn't be in the shape it's in. You sound like a grade eight student tossing the word squealer around.

[YYC338]

It is NOT "case closed". It is only case closed if you admit guilt and pay the ticket. However, since we live in a democracy and have Charter rights to a fair trial, you are entitled to plead Not Guilty and go to court. Also, someone hypothetically discussing guilt or innocence under a pseudonym in a public forum isn't an admission of guilt. After all, who is actually using the AOF account? The person who registered, or someone else who happens to know the password?

As far as "manning up" I think that would depend on the financial consequences. I think that many people who claim that they would pay the ticket to demonstrate their honor and integrity would meekly become hypocrites if they discovered that the price of this would be steep.

If your auto insurance rates would increase from $1400.00 a year (for example) to $1900.00 a year for 5 years ($2500.00 total cost), then you might not be so anxious to plead guilty. Also, if you already have a minor violation on your license, who knows what the cost might be for two convictions.

It's always easy to tell others to just take the financial hit when you won't have to pay a nickel yourself.

Financial hit has nothing to do with it. "Manning up" is a code of conduct, I don't think you need to check your wallet before you decide on proper conduct.

If you don't like the insurance rate increase or cost of the fine, the solution is simple. Don't willingly commit the infraction. It's really not that complicated.

With regards to the soap box statements of charter of rights and right to a fair trial, we're talking about a traffic ticket here for crying out loud!

BY the way, when did you get called to the bar, and I don't mean the one that has last call at 1:00am? What's with all the crap about hypothetically admitting and pseudonyms? Get real, it's a traffic ticket, not a case for Perry Mason or Mattlock.

[Captain Alberta]

And it's not uncommon for someone to cause an accident or nearly cause an accident and be totally oblivious of the whole situation. Just because the OP wasn't aware of what may or may not have happened around him doesn't mean there wasn't an issue.

In reading all the posts I haven't noticed where the OP said he will willingly pay the fine. And remember he's not being charged with causing an accident here. He's admitted to what he's been charged for, nothing more and nothing less.

The fine should be paid and the OP should still feel he got a break in that an accident didn't occur from his infraction and no one was hurt or killed. He got off lucky with just a fine.

It all depends whether you can afford the massive insurance hike IMHO.

I think that you can go through the process and possibly win in court and still learn from the experience. It takes a lot of time and trouble and you won't easily forget it, and you will be anxious not to go through it again.

But, if you wish to always plead guilty and pay your fines, and to eat the insurances hikes, even if it takes you off the road, then I urge you to do so.

If it's a ticket related to an automatic red light camera or speed camera, and no insurance increase will result, then it's up to you. It usually isn't worth fighting unless you know that you are absolutely certain of your innocence.

Morality is often sacrificed in favor of what you can afford in my experience.

[Ken07AOVette]

It all depends whether you can afford the massive insurance hike IMHO.

I think that you can go through the process and possibly win in court and still learn from the experience. It takes a lot of time and trouble and you won't easily forget it, and you will be anxious not to go through it again.

But, if you wish to always plead guilty and pay your fines, and to eat the insurances hikes, even if it takes you off the road, then I urge you to do so.

If it's a ticket related to an automatic red light camera or speed camera, and no insurance increase will result, then it's up to you. It usually isn't worth fighting unless you know that you are absolutely certain of your innocence.


massive insurance hike?

Just out of curiosity, what was your name before the ban? You are obviously not new here. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Joe Black]

And maybe if enough people spoke out against law breakers and testified our society wouldn't be in the shape it's in. You sound like a grade eight student tossing the word squealer around.

Yes you have all the answers. I bow my head in respect of your wisdom.

“And testified”. No, that would mean the squealers would actually have to put skin in the game. They would much rather hide in abscurity and think they have made the world a better place. Kinda like you with your comments.

Please show us your wisdom and give this eighth grader a better word to use than squealer. I’ll start using it.

[pikergolf]

Yes you have all the answers. I bow my head in respect of your wisdom.

“And testified”. No, that would mean the squealers would actually have to put skin in the game. They would much rather hide in abscurity and think they have made the world a better place. Kinda like you with your comments.

Please show us your wisdom and give this eighth grader a better word to use than squealer. I’ll start using it.

About what I expected out of you.

[YYC338]

It all depends whether you can afford the massive insurance hike IMHO.
It usually isn't worth fighting unless you know that you are absolutely certain of your innocence.

Well, I guess it is case closed then isn't it since it's been admitted by the OP that he ISN'T innocent of the charge against him?

Of course there are those issues of who really is posting the first post, does he/her even exist, did it really happen, is it from the alternative universe, is it the fault of space aliens or Sasquatch and, oh yes, don't forget how the grassy knoll fits into this scenario.

[R3illy]

manning up means paying your fine no matter what? I dont think so. Ill fight any ticket I get. I expect them to prove the charges in a court of law.

Guess what? From my experience they cant. I've had a $1000 ticket thrown out when I won. I've had a police officer lie on the stand in another one or I would have won. It's why I now have all sorts of cameras in my vehicle.

One time I was actually guilty. I sped up to pass a dangerous driver weaving in and out of traffic on a one lane highway. As I passed I got dinged for speeding. Fine from the prosecutor was recommended for $1000. I offered to pay $500. Prosecutor laughed. I went in front of the judge and explained the situation and he fined me $250.

I guess I should have manned up and paid the $1000 fine because that's what many here would have done.

[Ken07AOVette]

manning up means paying your fine no matter what? I dont think so. Ill fight any ticket I get. I expect them to prove the charges in a court of law.

Guess what? From my experience they cant. I've had a $1000 ticket thrown out when I won. I've had a police officer lie on the stand in another one or I would have won. It's why I now have all sorts of cameras in my vehicle.

One time I was actually guilty. I sped up to pass a dangerous driver weaving in and out of traffic on a one lane highway. As I passed I got dinged for speeding. Fine from the prosecutor was recommended for $1000. I offered to pay $500. Prosecutor laughed. I went in front of the judge and explained the situation and he fined me $250.

I guess I should have manned up and paid the $1000 fine because that's what many here would have done.


Were you doing in excess of 150kph? Or did he nail you with dangerous driving / undue care and attentiontion / passing when unsafe?

$1000 is steep in Alberta

[R3illy]

I was clocked at 153km. Stupid I know. Hence why I accepted I'd be paying a fine. Had a great judge who was more reasonable then the prosecutor. I offered to pay more for the fine then I was ultimately handed.

[YYC338]

manning up means paying your fine no matter what? I dont think so. Ill fight any ticket I get. I expect them to prove the charges in a court of law.



Noooo, manning up means taking personal accountability and responsibility when you admit you were in the wrong.

I guess responsibility and accountability means different things to different folks.

Sure, go ahead and fight every ticket you get, even if you know you're 100% in the wrong. It's only taxpayers money your spending here, what the heck. While you at it why don't you send in a bunch more cash when you do you taxes this year, I'm sure they could use the money running the courts for folks who fight every ticket they get regardless of the circumstances.

[sweld]

I think most on here should re- read the post!!

He is not denying doing something wrong .

He is denying what he is accused of.

Big difference folks!!! It would be like punching someone in the mouth and then getting charged with murder. I know that's a stretch but some folks need it to understand.



"I recently got a ticket for passing in a turning lane.one of the guys I passed tailgated me and got my plate number and reported it saying that I almost caused an accident .I didn't nearly cause an accident ,but I did pass in a turning lane.My question is do I have any chance of fighting this ticket and not having to pay?Thank you for any replies."



He wasn’t charged with almost causing a accident. He was charged with passing in a turning lane which he admits he did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YYC338]

He wasn’t charged with almost causing a accident. He was charged with passing in a turning lane which he admits he did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

C'mon now, don't let the facts in anyway impede from the soap box standing that most feel they need to do here :)

Not to mention all the free amateur lawyering advice that's worth every nickel that they're paid.

[Talking moose]

He wasn’t charged with almost causing a accident. He was charged with passing in a turning lane which he admits he did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup. I get the feeling the op thinks almost causing an accident is part of the charge it seems like to me.

[YYC338]

You know the stories we never hear in scenario's like this?

It's the ones where a guy who's clearly guilty of the traffic charges against him but chooses to go to court and suffers the full wrath of the judge for wasting peoples and the courts time on frivolous excuses.

Don't think it ever happens? Think again. You just won't hear about it in these kinds of threads.

[bobtodrick]

Wow...guess there's no need to wonder why court cases go on so long.
A simple traffic infraction, to which the offender has admitted his guilt and we have six pages of argument.
Hate to think he'd murdered someone :thinking-006:

[Joe Black]

About what I expected out of you.

Nope,

Still like squealer better.

[pikergolf]

Nope,

Still like squealer better.

:)

[Captain Alberta]

massive insurance hike?

Just out of curiosity, what was your name before the ban? You are obviously not new here. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Just out of curiousity why would you think such a thing, and why would you think that it was relevant to this discussion?

:confused:

[Captain Alberta]

Financial hit has nothing to do with it. "Manning up" is a code of conduct, I don't think you need to check your wallet before you decide on proper conduct.

If you don't like the insurance rate increase or cost of the fine, the solution is simple. Don't willingly commit the infraction. It's really not that complicated.

With regards to the soap box statements of charter of rights and right to a fair trial, we're talking about a traffic ticket here for crying out loud!

BY the way, when did you get called to the bar, and I don't mean the one that has last call at 1:00am? What's with all the crap about hypothetically admitting and pseudonyms? Get real, it's a traffic ticket, not a case for Perry Mason or Mattlock.

Calm down. You're not you when you're hungry.

Eat a Snickers bar. :)

[Captain Alberta]

Well, I guess it is case closed then isn't it since it's been admitted by the OP that he ISN'T innocent of the charge against him?

Of course there are those issues of who really is posting the first post, does he/her even exist, did it really happen, is it from the alternative universe, is it the fault of space aliens or Sasquatch and, oh yes, don't forget how the grassy knoll fits into this scenario.

So neither you nor I or the OP actually exists?

I mean, unless you are saying that you are a sasquatch and I am an alien assassin who shot JFK.

If so, then who is the OP?

All too existential for me, I'm afraid. :confused:

[liar]

Wheres the danger in writing tickets based off an uneducated, untrained, random person. People get annoyed by random drivers even tho their not doing anything wrong so lets write a ticket based off some ticked off motorists complaint on someone who may not have done anything wrong.

These type of tickets are becoming more and more common. Theres definite issues in writing a ticket for any complaint from any random Joe.

sure , so your driving down the road , someone blows a stop sign , t bones you , and drives off . you are an" uneducated, untrained, random person" (your words)
do the cops take your statement at face value or tell you to hit the skids ? how do they know that you didnt sideswipe something and are trying to blame on someone who " may not of done anything wrong ".

bottom line for this post is ; if you didnt break the law , go to court and plead your case , if you did, man up , take your punishment and move on .

[rem338win]

Churchill had it right. Talk to the average voter and you'll lose faith in democracy.

I've no doubt why we have Notely and Trudeau over us right now. Selfish thinkers, selfish leaders.

If it's the right thing to do, it's the right thing to do. Doesn't matter how hard it is.

Going and having conversation asking for mercy isn't an issue. Ol' Capt. A's way of doing things needlessly costs all of us. Same with Really?.

Character is a rare and valuable trait these days.

[YYC338]

So neither you nor I or the OP actually exists?

I mean, unless you are saying that you are a sasquatch and I am an alien assassin who shot JFK.

If so, then who is the OP?

All too existential for me, I'm afraid. :confused:

You did read your own post #159 before you wrote this right. You were putting up enough smoke and hocus pokus you probably couldn't even figure out which way was up or if you really existed.

Great start to your current incarnation on this forum though.

When Rach and Trudope aren't looking grab a man card and c'mon back and try it again.

[Captain Alberta]

sure , so your driving down the road , someone blows a stop sign , t bones you , and drives off . you are an" uneducated, untrained, random person" (your words)
do the cops take your statement at face value or tell you to hit the skids ? how do they know that you didnt sideswipe something and are trying to blame on someone who " may not of done anything wrong ".

bottom line for this post is ; if you didnt break the law , go to court and plead your case , if you did, man up , take your punishment and move on .

The OP didn't T bone anyone so the analogy isn't a reasonable one. No accident occurred.

Also, the witness may have embellished and exaggerated his account about how "an accident almost happened" to encourage police to issue a ticket.
Witnesses do lie on occasion, if they have prejudices.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court, and everyone can plead their case as they choose, guilty or innocent. Even the OP.

Let the Crown present their evidence and let the defendant present his defense and question the witness, assuming that that person actually gave his name to the police. His account may be anonymous for all any of us know. If so, then there is no case.

A Disclosure Request to the Crown Prosecutor would reveal who this person is, if it is known. It would also reveal if the statement given to police exists in a written form, and allow the OP to read that witness statement for himself, if it exists. He would be better able to decide for himself what to do.

I don't think that anyone would object to the OP seeing what evidence that the Crown actually has to present before he makes up his mind.

[Captain Alberta]

You did read your own post #159 before you wrote this right. You were putting up enough smoke and hocus pokus you probably couldn't even figure out which way was up or if you really existed.

Great start to your current incarnation on this forum though.

When Rach and Trudope aren't looking grab a man card and c'mon back and try it again.

I think that that providing useful information is one of the best uses that an internet forum can serve. If my information is wrong in some way, please give me some specific examples where I have erred, and please educate me with the actual facts.

As for your other comments: :sleep-038:

[liar]

The OP didn't T bone anyone so the analogy isn't a reasonable one. No accident occurred.

Also, the witness may have embellished and exaggerated his account about how "an accident almost happened" to encourage police to issue a ticket.
Witnesses do lie on occasion, if they have prejudices.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court, and everyone can plead their case as they choose, guilty or innocent. Even the OP.

Let the Crown present their evidence and let the defendant present his defense and question the witness, assuming that that person actually gave his name to the police. His account may be anonymous for all any of us know. If so, then there is no case.

A Disclosure Request to the Crown Prosecutor would reveal who this person is, if it is known. It would also reveal if the statement given to police exists in a written form, and allow the OP to read that witness statement for himself, if it exists. He would be better able to decide for himself what to do.

I don't think that anyone would object to the OP seeing what evidence that the Crown actually has to present before he makes up his mind.

i beg to differ , my analogy is very reasonable . how can a witness to a traffic violation be unreliable , biased , untrustworthy , etc but if there is property damage all of a sudden through some magical transformation the witness morphs into a reliable , credible witness . all the prejudices disappear and they dont lie anymore ?

[rem338win]

The OP didn't T bone anyone so the analogy isn't a reasonable one. No accident occurred.

Also, the witness may have embellished and exaggerated his account about how "an accident almost happened" to encourage police to issue a ticket.
Witnesses do lie on occasion, if they have prejudices.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court, and everyone can plead their case as they choose, guilty or innocent. Even the OP.

Let the Crown present their evidence and let the defendant present his defense and question the witness, assuming that that person actually gave his name to the police. His account may be anonymous for all any of us know. If so, then there is no case.

A Disclosure Request to the Crown Prosecutor would reveal who this person is, if it is known. It would also reveal if the statement given to police exists in a written form, and allow the OP to read that witness statement for himself, if it exists. He would be better able to decide for himself what to do.

I don't think that anyone would object to the OP seeing what evidence that the Crown actually has to present before he makes up his mind.

Or he could stop wasting everyone's time and money, take a Growacet, and pay the ticket he already said he is guilty of.

The right to plead not guilty and the right to fair trial was for one to defend themselves when they ARE innocent. Not to play the system, make it inconvenient and create burden and cost to witnesses and the general public.

Your advice to delay and time things for the purpose of inconveniencing and costing speaks to your adding "useful advice" as well as a lack of morals and a pirate like entitlement.

[rem338win]

i beg to differ , my analogy is very reasonable . how can a witness to a traffic violation be unreliable , biased , untrustworthy , etc but if there is property damage all of a sudden through some magical transformation the witness morphs into a reliable , credible witness . all the prejudices disappear and they dont lie anymore ?

This is exactly how the courts would see it as well. Credibility either exists or it doesn't. The circumstance doesn't add to the person; though physical evidence can corroborate.

Capt A doesn't seem to grasp that though.......