Judge and jury?

[Redfrog]

Seems to be a game members here would enjoy playing.:)

I've found over the years that things may not always be as they seem.

Suppose you and your buddy are out on an afternoon duck shoot. You are short one bird each for your bag limit. A flight of sucks comes in with 5 minutes of legal light left. You each kill one duck and the remainder of the flock flies off.

Dog does the retrieves and you begin to gather your dekes. While you pack up a set of headlights comes roaring up. As the G/W bails out and runs over, the dog shows up with another duck that he has found.

How many charges do you think the G/W would lay over one duck and what would they be?

Are the two hunters guilty of all, some , or none of the charges.

Asking for a friend. :)

Please
just stick to the question and do not advise what the hunters should have done in hindsight.

[Fish along]

No charges,because the dog retrieved the duck dosent mean they shot it.

[Benelli1]

No charges,because the dog retrieved the duck dosent mean they shot it.

Agree, now if they are more than one over different story.

[David Henry]

I think if I were the investigating officer you would get a ticket for consumption of alcohol while hunting sucks or was it dekes that the dog retrieved.

[sns2]

Depends on if you have any past convictions and/or warnings on your record. If you are clean, I would not think you'd be charged.

[traderal]

Depends on the FWO. If he's in a bad mood he would charge both, or at least one and then let them argue it out in court, that way he doesn't have to make a judgement call.

[urban rednek]

Here is a question for you instead: is the attending F/W officer a long term Alberta resident with at least a few years job experience? Or is it one of the new hire, affirmative action junior forest wardens?
I've spoken with both, and they are not cut from the same cloth. :thinking-006:

BTW- :sign0087:

[elkhunter11]

Depends on the situation, and the officer. Is the duck dead or is it a cripple? Are you hunting a slough that is hunted often, by many people, or are you hunting an isolated field?

[Bigwoodsman]

Who owns the dog?

BW

[pikergolf]

The dog is guilty as hell, I thought there were no bad dogs?

[Dewey Cox]

I think that if someone was jealous of your duck hunting ability, and called f and w to say you were breaking the law, you'd end with a ticket for that extra duck, and probably a ticket for wasting game flesh for only breasting the rest of your birds.

[Ken07AOVette]

I would think over the limit is over the limit,

is it yours or his?

Under
http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/genregs.html
It is unlawful to:

4. transport dead wildlife taken by others without an accompanying bill of lading

I would think over the limit is over the limit:
7. exceed the daily or possession limit for any game bird

Who shot the bird? Your not being sure does not mean you did everything you could to retrieve it.
10. fail to make every effort possible to immediately retrieve a migratory game bird that a person has killed or wounded. A hunter must have adequate means to retrieve any migratory bird that he or she may kill, cripple or injure.

I see at least 3 contraventions, an overzealous or for that matter law abiding by the book LEO may see 3 as well.

[buckbrush]

Obviously the over limit duck was planted by an outfitter to take the heat off them, the dog may be in on it also....

The "buddy" may be in cahoots with the CO and its all a set up because everyone is out to get you (including the dog).

[3blade]

Because it’s not covered in the OP: Tell the dog to drop it, and pack up. If it’s not in anyone’s possession, they would have one hell of a time getting anything to stick in court. If they want to waste time and money on a necropsy to prove that the duck was shot, and ballistic comparison to prove it was with the same ammunition (though that would be much harder to prove conclusively with steel shot), and most importantly try to sort out who shot it and when...well you get the picture. “Beyond reasonable doubt” is a hard standard to meet.

Side note: I’d be inclined to wonder if the rear-end-of-donkey with the badge saw a cripple in the field and let the situation occur. His reaction to the unanticipated retrieve would be telling.

If someone handled the last duck, that guy is charged with over limit. No way out. Crappy situation and worth discussing with the judge, but may or may not get any breaks there.

[thumper]

Leave the duck in the field. Neither guy shot it, it's not theirs to take. Presumably, it was shot under another person's licence.

Tell the dog "good boy"

You might suggest to the CO that he carry a thermometer to stick up the duck's arse - cause that duck was dead & cold long before they started to hunt.

[last minute]

I would think over the limit is over the limit,

is it yours or his?

Under
http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/genregs.html
It is unlawful to:

4. transport dead wildlife taken by others without an accompanying bill of lading

I would think over the limit is over the limit:
7. exceed the daily or possession limit for any game bird

Who shot the bird? Your not being sure does not mean you did everything you could to retrieve it.
10. fail to make every effort possible to immediately retrieve a migratory game bird that a person has killed or wounded. A hunter must have adequate means to retrieve any migratory bird that he or she may kill, cripple or injure.

I see at least 3 contraventions, an overzealous or for that matter law abiding by the book LEO may see 3 as well.



I think your wrong did you not read what was wrote :confused:



You are short one bird each for your bag limitmeans each person :thinking-006: hows that over the limit:confused::confused::confused:




You each kill one duck and the remainder of the flock flies off. quote the law now i would love to understand over the limit help me understand :)

[elkhunter11]

While hunting pheasants, our dogs have found as many as five birds that were dead or crippled, by someone other than us. I wonder how many people here would accuse us of exceeding our bag limit, or of abandoning edible meat because we left the birds where they were found?

[fed]

While bird hunting you can always have the possibility or taking more than one bird with a single shot. Was always told to only take your limit and leave the other. If he had one bird to get and he shot it and the dog retrieved two then he should of kept the one he shot. The other is supposed to be left in the Feild.

[elkhunter11]

While bird hunting you can always have the possibility or taking more than one bird with a single shot. Was always told to only take your limit and leave the other. If he had one bird to get and he shot it and the dog retrieved two then he should of kept the one he shot. The other is supposed to be left in the Feild.

According to the first post, the dog just appeared with the extra bird, they haven't even accepted the extra bird from the dog. As such, the officer has no way of knowing if they would have taken the extra bird, or if they even killed it.

[pikeslayer22]

According to the first post, the dog just appeared with the extra bird, they haven't even accepted the extra bird from the dog. As such, the officer has no way of knowing if they would have taken the extra bird, or if they even killed it.
Unless said officer was sitting watching/counting birds...seen them do that more than once

[Ken07AOVette]

I think your wrong did you not read what was wrote :confused:



means each person :thinking-006: hows that over the limit:confused::confused::confused:




quote the law now i would love to understand over the limit help me understand :)

I think you better read again.
Before you start throwing stones check yourself.
They were both short 1.
They each shot 1.
Dog brought 3.
Which part do you not understand ?

Was it the flight of sucks that threw you?

:confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

[elkhunter11]

I would think over the limit is over the limit,

is it yours or his?

Under
http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/genregs.html
It is unlawful to:

4. transport dead wildlife taken by others without an accompanying bill of lading

I would think over the limit is over the limit:
7. exceed the daily or possession limit for any game bird

Who shot the bird? Your not being sure does not mean you did everything you could to retrieve it.
10. fail to make every effort possible to immediately retrieve a migratory game bird that a person has killed or wounded. A hunter must have adequate means to retrieve any migratory bird that he or she may kill, cripple or injure.

I see at least 3 contraventions, an overzealous or for that matter law abiding by the book LEO may see 3 as well.

According to the OP the officer was present when the dog showed up with the extra bird. At that point, only the dog has transported the bird, so that charge does not apply. In fact, if they are still packing up as the OP specified, nobody has transported any birds yet.

[fed]

Only take the ones they shot. A co shouldn’t even be going after them if the dog brought 3 back. I’ve taken 2 partridge more than once with a single shot and had enough left for daily limit. I’ve also had it happen on last bird and had to leave one in the Feild.

[elkhunter11]

Only take the ones they shot. A co shouldn’t even be going after them if the dog brought 3 back. I’ve taken 2 partridge more than once with a single shot and had enough left for daily limit. I’ve also had it happen on last bird and had to leave one in the Feild.

Technically, it's up to the hunter to only kill what you are allowed to kill. If there is a high risk of killing two birds, or two deer, then don't shoot . And if you leave a game animal/bird that you killed in the field, you are guilty of leaving edible game meat to go to waste.

[wildwoods]

looks like the duck flew waaaaaay over some peoples heads here.....

[Redfrog]

I started out with "things are not always what they seem".

It's not always black and white or cut and dried.

I asked how many and what charges the GW would lay. Some of you said this charge or that one would be thrown out of court. Some wanted to charge the dog.

Here's the rest of the story.

This is based on a true story. I was there. It was my dog. I got some of the charges.

My buddy and I were hunting a flooded field of about 600 acres in the lower mainland of B.C.. It took us a couple years to get permission as the landowner was a bit odd and very particular about who let hunt his land. There were so many ducks there after season he had predation permits and was allowed to kill them.

We only hunted there during bird season. We both knew the GW from a retriever club we belonged to and had even gone on a club pheasant hunt with this guy.

He tried to get permission from the landowner to hunt ducks and was repeatedly refused. The landowner didn't like the guy's general attitude and demeanor. He approached us to see if he could join us on a hunt. We asked the Landowner and he was less than impressed and gave us a hard no. Of course when we told the GW this he got butt hurt and 'harassed' any hunters that were there.

This particular day by the time we got our dekes etc. back to the truck, it was dark and nearly 40 minutes past legal light.

We both got charged with shooting after legal light and I got charged with over my limit, cause I owned the dog, so was responsible for him.

We went to court and the charges were dropped.

But I had a lawyer to pay and all the stress and inconvenience involved. In this case nothing negative happened to the GW. He continued on to be a dink.

I've been hunting since I was kid and that's about 65 years ago. Over that time I've met some good honest hard working GW, guides, outfitters and just regular hunters as well as some of the worst poachers, lying GW, cheating guides and outfitters, Even met some regular hunters who were wormy.

Point is, duds and good guys are everywhere. Don't be too quick to judge the other guy without all the facts.

[BuckCuller]

If I were the GW I would have inspected the ducks to make sure they were all fresh.
If they were all fresh I would have written a warning to both of you and picked out the least shot up duck to take home and have for supper.

[wildwoods]

I started out with "things are not always what they seem".

It's not always black and white or cut and dried.

I asked how many and what charges the GW would lay. Some of you said this charge or that one would be thrown out of court. Some wanted to charge the dog.

Here's the rest of the story.

This is based on a true story. I was there. It was my dog. I got some of the charges.

My buddy and I were hunting a flooded field of about 600 acres in the lower mainland of B.C.. It took us a couple years to get permission as the landowner was a bit odd and very particular about who let hunt his land. There were so many ducks there after season he had predation permits and was allowed to kill them.

We only hunted there during bird season. We both knew the GW from a retriever club we belonged to and had even gone on a club pheasant hunt with this guy.

He tried to get permission from the landowner to hunt ducks and was repeatedly refused. The landowner didn't like the guy's general attitude and demeanor. He approached us to see if he could join us on a hunt. We asked the Landowner and he was less than impressed and gave us a hard no. Of course when we told the GW this he got butt hurt and 'harassed' any hunters that were there.

This particular day by the time we got our dekes etc. back to the truck, it was dark and nearly 40 minutes past legal light.

We both got charged with shooting after legal light and I got charged with over my limit, cause I owned the dog, so was responsible for him.

We went to court and the charges were dropped.

But I had a lawyer to pay and all the stress and inconvenience involved. In this case nothing negative happened to the GW. He continued on to be a dink.

I've been hunting since I was kid and that's about 65 years ago. Over that time I've met some good honest hard working GW, guides, outfitters and just regular hunters as well as some of the worst poachers, lying GW, cheating guides and outfitters, Even met some regular hunters who were wormy.

Point is, duds and good guys are everywhere. Don't be too quick to judge the other guy without all the facts.

I knew exactly where you were going with that and I agree wholeheartedly. Good post. Way to use yourself as the example

[Grizzly Adams]

We went to court and the charges were dropped.

Sometimes that's all it takes. Probably hoping you'd just pay the fine, a lot of tickets are written on that assumption.

Grizz

[rem338win]

Seems to be a game members here would enjoy playing.:)

I've found over the years that things may not always be as they seem.

Suppose you and your buddy are out on an afternoon duck shoot. You are short one bird each for your bag limit. A flight of sucks comes in with 5 minutes of legal light left. You each kill one duck and the remainder of the flock flies off.

Dog does the retrieves and you begin to gather your dekes. While you pack up a set of headlights comes roaring up. As the G/W bails out and runs over, the dog shows up with another duck that he has found.

How many charges do you think the G/W would lay over one duck and what would they be?

Are the two hunters guilty of all, some , or none of the charges.

Asking for a friend. :)

Please
just stick to the question and do not advise what the hunters should have done in hindsight.

Funny, i actually lived this exact scenario. I and a buddy shot ducks over a slough in a field and had a great day. Bagged limits of mallards and i was excited as it had been a long time since I had BBQ duck.

Dog has squirreled off somewhere nosing around and comes back with another mallard. Busted wing, and had gone completely unnoticed.

Well ****, Im not one to waste things so i call F&W and talk to an officer. He says being over in possession is an offence, but so is waste. Thanks for being honest, consume it today and do your best to keep to bag limits in the future.

I dont think the honest guy is getting nailed to any crosses.

[Bub]

Glad to see you back, Redfrog. Welcome back!

I dont think the honest guy is getting nailed to any crosses.
I think that is a stretch, but, perhaps, not that bad of a rule to live by.


Three years ago, I was hunting ducks (and geese) on these two flooded quarters. One day, ducks were flying pretty tight back and forth. I fired my very first shot and six ducks dropped dead. I decided not to pull my luck further and went home. Can't say it was the most exciting hunt. The same year on the same quarter, I shot a few ducks. Another was hit and it was obvious but it kept flying and went the distance as far as I could see it toward another field people were bird hunting, according to shots I heard. Once I got my duck limit, and a few geese, I decided to go home. While walking to the vehicle, I saw a speck going down out of nowhere and flying right at me. It came from the direction the duck went to sometime earlier. I took that goose (saw it was freshly shot) and thought of it as a payback by the guys that may have gotten the mallard I had sent their way. Maybe their dog brought them that mallard as the ninth duck? Who knows.

[RZR]

Because you were one bird short of your limit means you couldn’t have just gone home for the day and then try again tomorrow. Hell there are guys out there and some of them are even AO members who would take birds home and come back the same day and fill their limit again. Now ask yourself, is that legal?

[sns2]

Funny, i actually lived this exact scenario. I and a buddy shot ducks over a slough in a field and had a great day. Bagged limits of mallards and i was excited as it had been a long time since I had BBQ duck.

Dog has squirreled off somewhere nosing around and comes back with another mallard. Busted wing, and had gone completely unnoticed.

Well ****, Im not one to waste things so i call F&W and talk to an officer. He says being over in possession is an offence, but so is waste. Thanks for being honest, consume it today and do your best to keep to bag limits in the future.

I dont think the honest guy is getting nailed to any crosses.

And that right there is how things should have played out for the OP.

Good on you for calling it in.

Hunt for long enough and that is going to happen.

[elkhunter11]

Because you were one bird short of your limit means you couldn’t have just gone home for the day and then try again tomorrow. Hell there are guys out there and some of them are even AO members who would take birds home and come back the same day and fill their limit again. Now ask yourself, is that legal?

According to the F&W officer that lives by me, they are watching for people killing a limit of pheasants at the release sites, and then either giving the birds away, or going home with them, and continuing to hunt. Some friends actually mentioned one individual offering them two birds, they declined, but someone else accepted, and the guy went out hunting again.

[RZR]

I know a guy who shot and wounded a bull Elk it got into a coulee with brush when he got over to the coulee edge to find the bull another bull of about the same size came out of the brush and he took the shot thinking it was the bull he wounded. When he got down into the coulee to retrieve his bull he found that he had actually killed 2 bull by mistake. He phoned F&W they came out investigated and let him keep the one and they took the other bull and donated the meat. No charges were ever laid. Now he could have just walked away from the other bull, but because he was honest and phone F&W they were leaniant of the situation.

[Norwest Alta]

According to the F&W officer that lives by me, they are watching for people killing a limit of pheasants at the release sites, and then either giving the birds away, or going home with them, and continuing to hunt. Some friends actually mentioned one individual offering them two birds, they declined, but someone else accepted, and the guy went out hunting again.

This don’t seem right to me but I guess it’s no different then the single guy that shoots 2 deer, a elk and a moose.

[Norwest Alta]

I know a guy who shot and wounded a bull Elk it got into a coulee with brush when he got over to the coulee edge to find the bull another bull of about the same size came out of the brush and he took the shot thinking it was the bull he wounded. When he got down into the coulee to retrieve his bull he found that he had actually killed 2 bull by mistake. He phoned F&W they came out investigated and let him keep the one and they took the other bull and donated the meat. No charges were ever laid. Now he could have just walked away from the other bull, but because he was honest and phone F&W they were leaniant of the situation.

This. Been in a similar situation myself.

[elkhunter11]

This don’t seem right to me but I guess it’s no different then the single guy that shoots 2 deer, a elk and a moose.

It's totally different, the guy that has the tags for the four animals is a legal hunter, the guy exceeding his bag limit on pheasants is a poacher.

[Norwest Alta]

It's totally different, the guy that has the tags for the four animals is a legal hunter, the guy exceeding his bag limit on pheasants is a poacher.

The way I read your post is the guy shot his limits of birds then gave them away so he could go hunting again. Not much different imo. Greed is greed no matter which way you look at it.

[elkhunter11]

The way I read your post is the guy shot his limits of birds then gave them away so he could go hunting again. Not much different imo. Greed is greed no matter which way you look at it.

It doesn't matter whether he gave the birds away or not, he still exceeded his daily bag limit, so he is a poacher. As for the fellow with four tags, you have no idea where the meat went,or who filled them, or how long he waited to draw them .I have had four draws in one year, after waiting years building priority to draw them. And when I drew them, other people bought partner licenses to fill some of those tags. It had nothing to do with greed.

[Norwest Alta]

It doesn't matter whether he gave the birds away or not, he still exceeded his daily bag limit, so he is a poacher. As for the fellow with four tags, you have no idea where the meat went,or who filled them, or how long he waited to draw them.

You read how you will I'll read how I will.

[elkhunter11]

You read how you will I'll read how I will.

I choose to go with the regulations, and the legal bag limits, because I choose to be a hunter, rather than a poacher.

[sns2]

I know a guy who shot and wounded a bull Elk it got into a coulee with brush when he got over to the coulee edge to find the bull another bull of about the same size came out of the brush and he took the shot thinking it was the bull he wounded. When he got down into the coulee to retrieve his bull he found that he had actually killed 2 bull by mistake. He phoned F&W they came out investigated and let him keep the one and they took the other bull and donated the meat. No charges were ever laid. Now he could have just walked away from the other bull, but because he was honest and phone F&W they were leaniant of the situation.

I like when F&W approach things this way. Unfortunately, if he got the wrong guy on the end of the phone, it could have ended badly for him.

I sure hope they teach to give the benefit of the doubt when guys are trying to do the right thing like this fellow.

Hunt long enough and accidents do happen.

[sns2]

If he just wanted to get more work for his dog, he should have put his gun and birds in the truck, and asked the other guys if they wanted to hunt over a dog and handler. Who wouldn't say yes to such an offer.

[elkhunter11]

If he just wanted to get more work for his dog, he should have put his gun and birds in the truck, and asked the other guys if they wanted to hunt over a dog and handler. Who wouldn't say yes to such an offer.

I have done exactly that several times. I have also given my birds to other hunters that didn't get any, but I stopped hunting for the day.

[Norwest Alta]

I choose to go with the regulations, and the legal bag limits, because I choose to be a hunter, rather than a poacher.

Me too but I don't need to go hunting just to kill stuff for anyone else. I guess that's where we differ.

[Norwest Alta]

I guess what I'm saying elk is if you only eat 10 birds a year but are allowed 50 why shoot 50?

[elkhunter11]

Me too but I don't need to go hunting just to kill stuff for anyone else. I guess that's where we differ.

I have built up my priorities to double digits, and while doing so, I didn't hunt those species for many years, so it wasn't about killing animals. I have also had youth hunters fill the tags that I used those double digit priorities to get, so again, not about killing animals. I have also let many tags go unused that I could have filled, but I chose not to fill them. In the last three years, I have filled exactly one tag myself, and that was because the youth hunter could not make the hunt. The other tags were filled by people using partner tags. So no, for me it's not about killing as many animals as I can.

[Jack Hardin]

I think if I were the investigating officer you would get a ticket for consumption of alcohol while hunting sucks or was it dekes that the dog retrieved.

:)

[sns2]

I have built up my priorities to double digits, and while doing so, I didn't hunt those species for many years, so it wasn't about killing animals. I have also had youth hunters fill the tags that I used those double digit priorities to get, so again, not about killing animals. I have also let many tags go unused that I could have filled, but I chose not to fill them. In the last three years, I have filled exactly one tag myself, and that was because the youth hunter could not make the hunt. The other tags were filled by people using partner tags. So no, for me it's not about killing as many animals as I can.

My son shot a mulie buck this year that a priority 14 was used on by Elk11. He also would have shot a Trophy Pronghorn, had I been able to take the time off work. He has taken my boy under his wing with nothing to gain other than the joy of mentoring a future hunter the right way, by the rules and with safety a priority. My son thinks he walks on water which is great. The more real men my son has as role models the better. They also share a distaste for Trudeau. I am grateful that my son has people like that in his life other than me.

[58thecat]

Luv this thread.....asking advice on a situation that never happened or did it:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[RZR]

Luv this thread.....asking advice on a situation that never happened or did it:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Red frog said it was a true story!

[.257Weatherby]

No charges,because the dog retrieved the duck dosent mean they shot it.
Proving it in a court will be your burden if the G/W writes the ticket....
There is case law here in BC near YVR where a retired lawyer was walking his dog (lab) and she picked up wounded bird after the season was closed.
Hunting during a closed season and possession of Migratory Game Bird in a a closed season.
Write or wrong it all depends on how the interaction goes and of the G/W breaks out his or her writing implement.
Rob

[dodger]

So what happens if the CO and your buddy are shot dead and you end up with a freezer full of yummy duck sausage? Asking for a friend.

Dodger.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

What dog?

Oh that dog?

I have no idea where that dog came from.

Go see if you can catch him and check out his tags.

[marky_mark]

My son shot a mulie buck this year that a priority 14 was used on by Elk11. He also would have shot a Trophy Pronghorn, had I been able to take the time off work. He has taken my boy under his wing with nothing to gain other than the joy of mentoring a future hunter the right way, by the rules and with safety a priority. My son thinks he walks on water which is great. The more real men my son has as role models the better. They also share a distaste for Trudeau. I am grateful that my son has people like that in his life other than me.

Excellent to hear

[RZR]

Proving it in a court will be your burden if the G/W writes the ticket....
There is case law here in BC near YVR where a retired lawyer was walking his dog (lab) and she picked up wounded bird after the season was closed.
Hunting during a closed season and possession of Migratory Game Bird in a a closed season.
Write or wrong it all depends on how the interaction goes and of the G/W breaks out his or her writing implement.
Rob

No burden at all, the GW doesn’t have a leg to stand on. If it’s after the season is closed and I’m walking my dog without a shot gun pretty hard for me to shoot birds without a shotgun in my hand. I’d tell him to pound salt!

[Redfrog]

No burden at all, the GW doesn’t have a leg to stand on. If it’s after the season is closed and I’m walking my dog without a shot gun pretty hard for me to shoot birds without a shotgun in my hand. I’d tell him to pound salt!

The point of my story is regardless if you are guilty of a violation, you may still be charged by an over zealous GW or police officer for that matter. That means pay the fine or spend time and/or money in court, to have it dropped. Eother way you lose.

While it would be nice to believe every person in authority is honest, moral and fair, that is simply not the case. Whatever percentage of outfitters, regular hunters, or even general citizens who cheat, break the law and are generally culls can be extended to law enforcement and F/W. There's bad apples everywhere, so the old saying 'If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" is BS>

Having a little power only makes it worse.

[bdub]

The point of my story is regardless if you are guilty of a violation, you may still be charged by an over zealous GW or police officer for that matter. That means pay the fine or spend time and/or money in court, to have it dropped. Eother way you lose.

While it would be nice to believe every person in authority is honest, moral and fair, that is simply not the case. Whatever percentage of outfitters, regular hunters, or even general citizens who cheat, break the law and are generally culls can be extended to law enforcement and F/W. There's bad apples everywhere, so the old saying 'If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" is BS>

Having a little power only makes it worse.

There’s a hole s in every line of work. In my experience and a couple examples of freinds etc if you make an honest mistake, you don’t bs them, they are pretty good with you.

When moose went to tri palm in bc a friend screwed up on a bull and shot a two point. He had binos but still mis judged. He phoned it in and lost the moose but nothing else. Stuff happens sometimes. I have a couple other examples but wont bother.

If you bury a short sheep under a rockpile in the wrong wmu type of offence. Not so good.