Wabamun

[jungleboy]

Do you think there are any big pike left in this lake or is that just a fantasy?

[thorne]

Has to be one or 2.....but mostly no. Devils lake has a better chance of a 10lber

[briangeorge]

Walleye have taken control of Wabamum.

[Kurt505]

Another success story of Alberta’s ESRD fishery plan of over populating Alberta with fish they can’t retain. Wabamun isn’t the only lake in recent years to see its pike fishery decimated, and you can’t blame it on over harvesting because strict harvest regulations have been in place for decades. When are people going to wake up and stop defending a failed plan? Even the Oilers are trying to change things up for crying out loud! Fishing in Alberta is like paying to walk into a deli and not being allowed to buy anything once you get in :angry3:

[swampy45]

The big fish are still there. Are they in the same numbers as they were a a decade ago? No. Are they as easy to catch as they were a decade ago? No. Put in some time, change your tactics, change your usual locations, and you will find the bigger fish.

Do I wish we could all still drive out to Wabamun and catch a few Pike over 20 pounds? You bet I do, but that just is not the reality. I am willing to bet in another decade though we will see the return of trophy sized pike, and maybe even the opportunity at some trophy walleye.

[Fishwhere]

I think it will slowly but surely continue to taper off regarding large pike. The walleye have such a hold on the lake now. On one hand its really great, on the other hand i think it was a waste to essentially wreck such a quality pike fishery - it was one of a kind, especially so being so close to a major population.

I just think its a shame when almost out of dumb luck we have an incredible pike lake with the combination of a few key factors and then the province on their WALLEYE RAMPAGE GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT WALLEYE WALLEYE!!!!! Haha anyways... just sucks because i love pike, and i think they get way underated in alberta. They are a willing, neat, good eating, fun, fish. But all attention goes to the walleyes.

I know you guys are sick of the complaining(including myself i guess), but hard to look away from certain examples like this. In fairness however, i dont know what would have happened over time with the warm water input into wabamun getting drastically decreased.

Ps - damn snow!

[jungleboy]

What is it that makes Wabamun such an oddity that can't support both pike and walleye. I remember back in the 80s Fawcet lake had very big pike and tons of walleye , same with Slave lake.

[RavYak]

What is it that makes Wabamun such an oddity that can't support both pike and walleye. I remember back in the 80s Fawcet lake had very big pike and tons of walleye , same with Slave lake.

Fisheries...

If they had grown the walleye population slower they may have found the sweet spot and resulted in both healthy pike and walleye populations. Instead they overstocked, destroyed the forage base(which was already pressured by the large population of pike) which in turn hampered the health and killed off many pike while also stunting the stocked walleye.

A lake can have both species be successful but to do so it needs to find the right balance. That can't happen when there are outside influences skewing the survival rates of one of the species. Wabamun is an example where stocking alone ruined this balance. Other lakes have seen stocking in combination with C&R for walleye while pike limits stayed open leading to even more destruction to the pike populations.

Back to Wabamun there are still the odd big pike in there just few and far between compared to what it used to be. It will start to grow some more big ones after the lake finds balance again but that is still going to take a while to accomplish and then a few more years for the pike to grow big.

[ddddd05]

This topic comes up every year. One fact people leave out is that the pike sizes were on a decline long before the walleye stocking began.

Big pike eat whitefish. The whitefish eggs have had trouble hatching properly after the oil spill. The whitefish population went into decline and the pike population followed.

[jungleboy]

This topic comes up every year. One fact people leave out is that the pike sizes were on a decline long before the walleye stocking began.

Big pike eat whitefish. The whitefish eggs have had trouble hatching properly after the oil spill. The whitefish population went into decline and the pike population followed.

I wasn’t trying to stir the pot , I just had an honest question looking for an honest opinion.

[RavYak]

This topic comes up every year. One fact people leave out is that the pike sizes were on a decline long before the walleye stocking began.

Big pike eat whitefish. The whitefish eggs have had trouble hatching properly after the oil spill. The whitefish population went into decline and the pike population followed.

I have never seen anything that supports this claim. The change in regulations(changing the pike to C&R) greatly increased their numbers which is probably the main reason for the reduction in whitefish population. The shutting down of the old power plant might have had some effect too.

Whether the pike size was on a slow decline already is arguable. That doesn't change the fact that the pike population took a massive and obvious hit shortly after the walleye stocking. Literally within two years the lake went from being an awesome pike lake to being full of starving dying pike...

The big pike stayed healthy but without the smaller pike growing to replace them their numbers keep diminishing as they die from natural causes and poor handling.

[pikergolf]

Hey, Alberta anglers keep crying for walleye. Why? No idea, fight like socks, I guess they are easy to catch and people like that. Never figure out those that prefer them to pike for a fishery.

[dodgeboy1979]

I have never seen anything that supports this claim. The change in regulations(changing the pike to C&R) greatly increased their numbers which is probably the main reason for the reduction in whitefish population. The shutting down of the old power plant might have had some effect too.

Whether the pike size was on a slow decline already is arguable. That doesn't change the fact that the pike population took a massive and obvious hit shortly after the walleye stocking. Literally within two years the lake went from being an awesome pike lake to being full of starving dying pike...

The big pike stayed healthy but without the smaller pike growing to replace them their numbers keep diminishing as they die from natural causes and poor handling.

I think the shutting down of the power plant has a greater effect on the lake than anyone realizes.

[Penner]

This topic comes up every year. One fact people leave out is that the pike sizes were on a decline long before the walleye stocking began.

Big pike eat whitefish. The whitefish eggs have had trouble hatching properly after the oil spill. The whitefish population went into decline and the pike population followed.

This ^^

I think the shutting down of the power plant has a greater effect on the lake than anyone realizes.

This ^^

And although C&R there is an number of big hens that don't make it after being caught on a quick strike rig or being handled in -20 whatever degrees for a period of time. Many factors are responsible. C&R did not go far enough, should have made it a bait ban also.

Anyone paying attention knows that it was reported that both the Pike and Whitefish were in decline well before marble eyes showed up.

[Fishwhere]

I have never seen anything that supports this claim. The change in regulations(changing the pike to C&R) greatly increased their numbers which is probably the main reason for the reduction in whitefish population. The shutting down of the old power plant might have had some effect too.

Whether the pike size was on a slow decline already is arguable. That doesn't change the fact that the pike population took a massive and obvious hit shortly after the walleye stocking. Literally within two years the lake went from being an awesome pike lake to being full of starving dying pike...

The big pike stayed healthy but without the smaller pike growing to replace them their numbers keep diminishing as they die from natural causes and poor handling.

100 percent agree. The water plant definitely contributed - but the walleye addition was the judge, jury, and executioner i think on the rapid decrease.

[Talking moose]

I am willing to bet in another decade though we will see the return of trophy sized pike, and maybe even the opportunity at some trophy walleye.

This. Exactly this.

[Habfan]

Hey, Alberta anglers keep crying for walleye. Why? No idea, fight like socks, I guess they are easy to catch and people like that. Never figure out those that prefer them to pike for a fishery.

Walleye taste better and are easier to debone. They are only easier to catch in lakes that are overpopulated with them. Walleye are not as slimy and don’t smell.

[JohninAB]

What if the lake is not being managed as a trophy pike fishery, maybe it is going to be managed as a walleye fishery to support subsistence and Métis netting as they take precedence over recreational fishermen.

Look at Lac La Biche Lake for example. Stocked with millions of walleyes. Now there are what 200+ domestic netting licenses there?

Just thinking out loud.

[bigrfish]

This. Exactly this.
Ya... I'm on board. Everything has a cycle and nature will eventually re balance.
I honestly don't think F&W anticipated the current walleye explosion either.
Unfortunately it will probably have to get worse before it gets better. I just worry about another Pigeon scenario that's all.

[bigrfish]

What if the lake is not being managed as a trophy pike fishery, maybe it is going to be managed as a walleye fishery to support subsistence and Métis netting as they take precedence over recreational fishermen.

Look at Lac La Biche Lake for example. Stocked with millions of walleyes. Now there are what 200+ domestic netting licenses there?

Just thinking out loud.
Or this...Ya never know. Although there is a much larger subsistence population in the Lac La Biche area.

[Kurt505]

What if the lake is not being managed as a trophy pike fishery, maybe it is going to be managed as a walleye fishery to support subsistence and Métis netting as they take precedence over recreational fishermen.

Look at Lac La Biche Lake for example. Stocked with millions of walleyes. Now there are what 200+ domestic netting licenses there?

Just thinking out loud.

That’s an awesome thought, all the revenue collected from Alberta fishing licenses going to a stocking program designed to omit licensed fishermen. I really hope this isn’t the case. If it is, it should be brought to the public’s attention. I will gladly not support programs designed to exclude me.

[thorne]

That’s an awesome thought, all the revenue collected from Alberta fishing licenses going to a stocking program designed to omit licensed fishermen. I really hope this isn’t the case. If it is, it should be brought to the public’s attention. I will gladly not support programs designed to exclude me.

Ya John has definitely hit the bullseye on this topic. Its been mentioned in other topics and holds true. If you talk to recreational fishermen, Its a mystery to everyone as to who the hell is on the Walleye push....apparently its some mysterious NRA type organizaion who Is donating large sums of money to get more Walleye! just no one knows who the hell that is! Oh wait.....John already pointed them out,,,,except they have figured out a way to take Millions from the govenment and us, and still get the walleye stocked.

[dustinjoels]

Or this...Ya never know. Although there is a much larger subsistence population in the Lac La Biche area.

Tag quota for LLB reduced from 1000 to 650 this year. Need to leave enough for the nets.

[jungleboy]

Want to send a message to the gov't , stop buying walleye tags. I have never bought a walleye tag

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Well,

They all weren’t the tops of their classes, as some of these experts would you lead to believe.

Some earned their degrees and positions kneeling and or laying down.

Someone stayed at a Holiday Inn.

And when man tries to play god, (small g ), what did anyone expect?

Now if only someone can get around to engineering a bass lake or two that would be great.

[jungleboy]

Well,

They all weren’t the tops of their classes, as some of these experts would you lead to believe.

Some earned their degrees and positions kneeling and or laying down.

Someone stayed at a Holiday Inn.

And when man tries to play god, (small g ), what did anyone expect?

Now if only someone can get around to engineering a bass lake or two that would be great.


Why don't we make perch lakes like we make trout ponds

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Why don't we make perch lakes like we make trout ponds

The perch go into the bass lakes.

[huntsfurfish]

:sHa_shakeshout:



:party0051:

[huntsfurfish]

[QUOTE=Talking moose;3969214]This. Exactly this.




Yup, but there is no patience for that on here. It has to be right now.


oops so much for staying out of these.

[Talking moose]

Yes, but there is no patience for that on here. It has to be right now.

I was gonna post that in original post..... how the world wants instant gratification now. But I let be. lol

[huntsfurfish]

I was gonna post that in original post..... how the world wants instant gratification now. But I let be. lol

Right about that too!(bolded)

[Wolkpack]

I was on Wabamun last year and my buddy landed a pike in the 15-16 pound range, which was a monster to me. Maybe not the size of the ones once in there, but a beast nonetheless. Another friend who fishes there a lot claims to still be catching big pike as well in the 20 pound range, just not in the numbers a decade ago.

Not sure if I am on board with the idea that the lack of whitefish is necessarily the answer, as I fish in Pigeon a lot and there are tons of whitefish in that lake but no big pike as far as I can tell. I think it is as simple as the walleye decimated the pike's food supply, now all I catch at Pigeon Lake are small skinny pike and a billion walleye.

[jungleboy]

stock a few million perch to feed the pike and walleye. If you are gonna run the lake like an aquarium that you can't keep any fish from ,at least feed the stock you have:bad_boys_20:

[RACKER]

I was on Wabamun last year and my buddy landed a pike in the 15-16 pound range, which was a monster to me. Maybe not the size of the ones once in there, but a beast nonetheless. Another friend who fishes there a lot claims to still be catching big pike as well in the 20 pound range, just not in the numbers a decade ago.

Not sure if I am on board with the idea that the lack of whitefish is necessarily the answer, as I fish in Pigeon a lot and there are tons of whitefish in that lake but no big pike as far as I can tell. I think it is as simple as the walleye decimated the pike's food supply, now all I catch at Pigeon Lake are small skinny pike and a billion walleye.

I caught 4 pike this year at Pigeon ice fishing that were over 10 lbs and lost a couple that were easily 15. Caught em all in a two week span in February though. There are a lot of bigger ones to be caught in the summer on the Mameo side by birdcrap island. Most people aren’t targeting anymore cause they can’t keep them.

[Kurt505]

Yup, but there is no patience for that on here. It has to be right now.

Lol, ok.


It’s been 30yrs since Alberta has put forth their feeble attempt at a sustainable fish management plan.

I’m all for trying sht out, but how many decades have to go by before you realize maybe this ain’t working?

[swampy45]

I was on Wabamun last year and my buddy landed a pike in the 15-16 pound range, which was a monster to me. Maybe not the size of the ones once in there, but a beast nonetheless. Another friend who fishes there a lot claims to still be catching big pike as well in the 20 pound range, just not in the numbers a decade ago.

Not sure if I am on board with the idea that the lack of whitefish is necessarily the answer, as I fish in Pigeon a lot and there are tons of whitefish in that lake but no big pike as far as I can tell. I think it is as simple as the walleye decimated the pike's food supply, now all I catch at Pigeon Lake are small skinny pike and a billion walleye.

There are some absolute MONSTER pike in Pigeon, but good luck catching them. They are smart, they are wary, and few and far between. But they are there.

[cube]

There are some absolute MONSTER pike in Pigeon, but good luck catching them. They are smart, they are wary, and few and far between. But they are there.

And there were a hell of a lot more of them before the walleye took over. Not to mention all the perch.

[Justfishin73]

What is it that makes Wabamun such an oddity that can't support both pike and walleye. I remember back in the 80s Fawcet lake had very big pike and tons of walleye , same with Slave lake.

You sure as hell cannot compare Wabamun to Slave Lake or Fawcett, cmon

[jungleboy]

You sure as hell cannot compare Wabamun to Slave Lake or Fawcett, cmon

Not comparing the lakes I am asking what it is about Wabamun that it cannot support both pike and walleye at the same time

[Talking moose]

And there were a hell of a lot more of them before the walleye took over. Not to mention all the perch.

All the perch? In pigeon? Ain’t seen one in a coons age.....

[Talking moose]

Edit. ^ I see what your getting at now.....

[does it ALL outdoors]

Do I wish we could all still drive out to Wabamun and catch a few Pike over 20 pounds?

Man do I miss Wab's heyday, I took it for granted.

Used to take my tub out there 3-4 times a week and just KILLED it almost every time, and threw em all back. The good 'ol 90's :)

That lake had MONSTER gator's, and not just a few.

Now when I fish there and pull out little hammer handles it just makes me sad.

That lake was never the same after the train spill :(

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wabamun-lake-oil-spill-a-decade-later-disaster-still-fresh-in-residents-minds-1.3177556

I'm not convinced it will return to its former glory, I believe those days are gone for good, sadly. Sure hope I'm wrong though

[thorne]

Man do I miss Wab's heyday, I took it for granted.

Used to take my tub out there 3-4 times a week and just KILLED it almost every time, and threw em all back. The good 'ol 90's :)

That lake had MONSTER gator's, and not just a few.

Now when I fish there and pull out little hammer handles it just makes me sad.

That lake was never the same after the train spill :(

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/wabamun-lake-oil-spill-a-decade-later-disaster-still-fresh-in-residents-minds-1.3177556

I'm not convinced it will return to its former glory, I believe those days are gone for good, sadly. Sure hope I'm wrong though

That lake was rocking long after the spill. If anything the spill instigated the C&R policy that benefited the pike even more! I was constantly catching 10lb+ pike well Into 2014. The closure of the Wab power plant, and the introduction of the Walleye at the same time was the nail in the Trophy Pike Coffin. As a matter of fact the numbers of huge pike steadily increased after the spill and peeked about 2012-13ish a few years after the power Plant was shut down. Then around 2014 you started to notice a change then a drastic change in 2015 and a steady plunge to what it is now. Hooefully the bottom has been hit and will start growing back......hopefully!

Matter of fact I'll put summer 2014 as the last good season. I remember may long weekend I sat in one spot and in a few hours in the afternoon I caught 3 pike over 10, 2 burbs both over 6 and a 3 decent walleye about 3-4 lbs....next year.....nothing even close.

A glimpse of times gone by....sigh...

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=219818&highlight=Wabamun

[ddddd05]

Look at the size and quantity of the fish stocked.

http://www.albertafishingguide.com/location/water/wabamun-lake#stock

I agree that summer 2014 about the end of good pike fishing. Do you think it was due to 5.2 million 1cm walleye that were stocked that year? or due to the 500 21cm walleye stocked the year before.

Keep in mind that the 6.4 million 1cm walleye stocked in 2012 are barely over 30cm now.

[dodgeboy1979]

Look at the size and quantity of the fish stocked.

http://www.albertafishingguide.com/location/water/wabamun-lake#stock

I agree that summer 2014 about the end of good pike fishing. Do you think it was due to 5.2 million 1cm walleye that were stocked that year? or due to the 500 21cm walleye stocked the year before.

Keep in mind that the 6.4 million 1cm walleye stocked in 2012 are barely over 30cm now.

due to the power plant shutting down and not discharging all the warm water any more.

[RavYak]

I was gonna post that in original post..... how the world wants instant gratification now. But I let be. lol

Do people want instant gratification or for fisheries to take responsibility for their actions and to use the knowledge of said actions to avoid doing the same in future?

Fisheries not only hurt this lake but then they also denied it, called the anglers that brought up the subject liars and called the walleye stocking a success... Their argument was that they don’t have netting data that supports the decline in pike population. Probably because they have not netted the lake since 2015, the results of which already showed a decline but not outside the testing error... I can’t wait until they finally perform another netting and realize that the anglers were right(which they probably know and why they haven’t bothered to net lately)...

But yeah blame impatient anglers. Fisheries is allowed to wreck a lake over a couple years while we are the ones that have to wait decades for Mother Nature to fix their mistakes...

As Kurt mentioned how well is fisheries approach to pike and walleye management working? Decades of recovery that have only lead to more and more lakes having reduced limits(if any). Time for a change.

[Talking moose]

Do people want instant gratification or for fisheries to take responsibility for their actions and to use the knowledge of said actions to avoid doing the same in future?

Fisheries not only hurt this lake but then they also denied it, called the anglers that brought up the subject liars and called the walleye stocking a success... Their argument was that they don’t have netting data that supports the decline in pike population. Probably because they have not netted the lake since 2015, the results of which already showed a decline but not outside the testing error... I can’t wait until they finally perform another netting and realize that the anglers were right(which they probably know and why they haven’t bothered to net lately)...

But yeah blame impatient anglers. Fisheries is allowed to wreck a lake over a couple years while we are the ones that have to wait decades for Mother Nature to fix their mistakes...

As Kurt mentioned how well is fisheries approach to pike and walleye management working? Decades of recovery that have only lead to more and more lakes having reduced limits(if any). Time for a change.

They got it right. Spawning fish of both species. The goal. Now they need to open it up on walleye for a year then have another look. Let the anglers go nuts on the walleye for a year, thin em out some and let er be for awhile. It’s dam near perfect.

[Justfishin73]

Unless going during the week, I give up on wabamun, just too insane on the wknds

[RavYak]

They got it right. Spawning fish of both species. The goal. Now they need to open it up on walleye for a year then have another look. Let the anglers go nuts on the walleye for a year, thin em out some and let er be for awhile. It’s dam near perfect.

Funny enough that is what I told the bios(open up limit to thin population) back in 2015 during the collapse and then again in 2017 after the collapse. Both times was told not a chance and that wabamun will likely never have open limits.

What good are spawning walleye in wabamun? Are they an endangered species on the verge of extinction? Catching a million walleye at Pigeon or Ste Anne isn’t good enough? Need to provide sustenance for native netters like in LLB and elsewhere? If the goal was met, the target was a bad one.

[Talking moose]

What good are spawning walleye in wabamun? Are they an endangered species on the verge of extinction? Catching a million walleye at Pigeon or Ste Anne isn’t good enough? Need to provide sustenance for native netters like in LLB and elsewhere? If the goal was met, the target was a bad one.

1) don’t have to keep stocking.(figured you’d know that)
2) in Wabamun the were yes.(figured you’d know that)
3) impossible.( quite a feat. Even for you!)
4) don’t know.
5) I’m only razzing....;)

[jungleboy]

Like the Oilers ,Ab.biologists have painted themselves into a corner . If they open a lake to a take away limit every fisherman within 200 km ascends on that lake like a group of Notley supporters to a Kenny hate fest. The lake is pooched within a season and they are back to square one. The only way they could have sustainable lakes is to open them all and spread the pressure around . I am willing to bet a months wages that will not happen in my life time or my grand kids for that matter (don't get excited my months wages wouldn't buy you lunch these days:))

[Talking moose]

Like the Oilers ,Ab.biologists have painted themselves into a corner . If they open a lake to a take away limit every fisherman within 200 km ascends on that lake like a group of Notley supporters to a Kenny hate fest. The lake is pooched within a season and they are back to square one. The only way they could have sustainable lakes is to open them all and spread the pressure around . I am willing to bet a months wages that will not happen in my life time or my grand kids for that matter (don't get excited my months wages wouldn't buy you lunch these days:))

You don’t remember how it was when all the lakes were open for retention? Must be young or can’t see past round 1...:)
The pressure doesn’t get “spread around”....
Look at our province from a top view map.
See Edmonton and Calgary? The city’s with over a million population? Okay.
Now envision a radar circle blipping outward from each metropolis.
Every lake within 50 km gets fished out first. Don’t take long either.
Then move outward another 50km....soon those lakes are toast.
Now another 100 km.....
and so on and so on.
We just don’t have the number of lakes in the province to support that idea.

[jungleboy]

You don’t remember how it was when all the lakes were open for retention? Must be young or can’t see past round 1...:)
The pressure doesn’t get “spread around”....
Look at our province from a top view map.
See Edmonton and Calgary? The city’s with over a million population? Okay.
Now envision a radar circle blipping outward from each metropolis.
Every lake within 50 km gets fished out first. Don’t take long either.
Then move outward another 50km....soon those lakes are toast.
Now another 100 km.....
and so on and so on.
We just don’t have the number of lakes in the province to support that idea.


I'm old enough to remember that 40 yrs ago even 25 yrs ago you could fish any lake of a reasonable size and expect to have a fish or 2 for supper that night with any luck at all. When the closures came along the fishing pressure went up considerably for lakes like Slave ,Calling ,Pigeon etc because you could still keep 3 walleye , that is down to 1 or draw only now due to excess pressure on those lakes. Pike will be next on the draw for the same reason People couldn't keep walleye so they kept pike which were previously not high on the list of keep for dinner fish . I agree with you that local lakes see the most pressure , of course they do they are easy access,All I am saying is that Alberta biologists are between a rock and a hard place now and there is really no way out anymore unless they enter into a huge stocking program for all species ,not just Trout and Walleye. That would mean actually using revenue from licences as well as perhaps a tax on fishing related equipment to be used for lake rehab programs instead of going into general revenue.

I'll be 57 tomorrow wish me a happy birthday :)

[Talking moose]

I'm old enough to remember that 40 yrs ago even 25 yrs ago you could fish any lake of a reasonable size and expect to have a fish or 2 for supper that night with any luck at all. When the closures came along the fishing pressure went up considerably for lakes like Slave ,Calling ,Pigeon etc because you could still keep 3 walleye , that is down to 1 or draw only now due to excess pressure on those lakes. Pike will be next on the draw for the same reason People couldn't keep walleye so they kept pike which were previously not high on the list of keep for dinner fish . I agree with you that local lakes see the most pressure , of course they do they are easy access,All I am saying is that Alberta biologists are between a rock and a hard place now and there is really no way out anymore unless they enter into a huge stocking program for all species ,not just Trout and Walleye. That would mean actually using revenue from licences as well as perhaps a tax on fishing related equipment to be used for lake rehab programs instead of going into general revenue.

I'll be 57 tomorrow wish me a happy birthday :)

All I’m sayin is that don’t work anymore. There’s just not enough lakes the regions around the city’s. Would wipe out the lakes around the area. We don’t want that either. Alberta is a unique province with its own dilemma in regards to fishing opportunities. Too many people and not enough lakes. Rich in oil and dirt poor in water...:angry3:
Happy bday !

[jungleboy]

All I’m sayin is that don’t work anymore. There’s just not enough lakes the regions around the city’s. Would wipe out the lakes around the area. We don’t want that either. Alberta is a unique province with its own dilemma in regards to fishing opportunities. Too many people and not enough lakes. Rich in oil and dirt poor in water...:angry3:
Happy bday !


I disagree. But that's okay.It's not like these debates have the ear of the powers that could bring change anyway.

[Salavee]

All I’m sayin is that don’t work anymore. There’s just not enough lakes the regions around the city’s. Would wipe out the lakes around the area. We don’t want that either. Alberta is a unique province with its own dilemma in regards to fishing opportunities. Too many people and not enough lakes. Rich in oil and dirt poor in water...:angry3:
Happy bday !

That about says it all. Too many people wanting, first five, then three fish per day. Sorry, those quantities of fish are not available. Not enough water. It's been that way for decades. The caution flags were flying since the late 70's. Nobody paid much attention.

[SNAPFisher]

I disagree. But that's okay.It's not like these debates have the ear of the powers that could bring change anyway.

Amen! There are some on here that sounds like they think they are talking to the powers. I think they are delusional :)

[huntsfurfish]

Like the Oilers ,Ab.biologists have painted themselves into a corner . If they open a lake to a take away limit every fisherman within 200 km ascends on that lake like a group of Notley supporters to a Kenny hate fest. The lake is pooched within a season and they are back to square one. The only way they could have sustainable lakes is to open them all and spread the pressure around . I am willing to bet a months wages that will not happen in my life time or my grand kids for that matter (don't get excited my months wages wouldn't buy you lunch these days:))

That only works for a short time. Waters closest to the large cities get fished out first. Then the next closest and so on.:(

edit: I see it has already been said. Thanks Tm

[Smoky buck]

That only works for a short time. Waters closest to the large cities get fished out first. Then the next closest and so on.:(

edit: I see it has already been said. Thanks Tm

Things like this can be solved by yearly quota or short seasonal openings and a number of other options if you combined different tools

There is ways to control the number of fish taken from even the busiest areas. Alberta may have a large number of anglers compared to lakes but it is not the only place in the world like it. I have fished lakes that are C&R except for 1 month in the summer and 1 month in the winter combined with a size limit. This prevents over harvest on this lake

The catch and keep crowd may not see the level of opportunity they want but to say only C&R is viable in Alberta is also not true. Seems like in Alberta anglers either want C&R or an unsastianable catch & keep and no one seeking realistic middle ground

But this won’t stop the forum battles on this issue :lol:

[Talking moose]

That only works for a short time. Waters closest to the large cities get fished out first. Then the next closest and so on.:(

edit: I see it has already been said. Thanks Tm

No problem. By the sounds of it some people should be at home talking to the tv while watching Sesame Street.

[Kurt505]

That only works for a short time. Waters closest to the large cities get fished out first. Then the next closest and so on.:(

edit: I see it has already been said. Thanks Tm

Do you think if they were to open up retention it would be a wise choice to do it with a blanket catch limit province wide the same way they did to destroy the fishery in the first place? Do you think a more logical approach would be to learn from the past, learn from other provinces, impose a slot size with varied catch limits according to location and estimated fish populations would be a more likely situation? Mind you with the track record of our esrd I could see them taking your approach.

It doesn’t have to be the worst case scenario as the only alternative to zero retention. If there is a retention limit of one fish in wabamun or 3 fish in beaver lake, which one do you drive to if you live in Edmonton?

[Salavee]

I think one issue is lack of inventory. Creel checks ,such as they were, do not provide an accurate inventory as to age structure and ratio of an individual waterbody by species. It was determined some time back(40 years or so) that the best way to obtain those required data was by electro-fishing. Lack of available funding to do so has always been a problem, and still is. If you dont know exactly what particular fish populations a particular waterbody contains, how do you properly manage it? Just a crap shoot. The results of that ongoing ommission are now pretty evident with no end in sight.

[jungleboy]

No problem. By the sounds of it some people should be at home talking to the tv while watching Sesame Street.

By the sounds of it, in your mind you are the only opinion worth listening to but that is not the case :snapoutofit:

[Talking moose]

By the sounds of it, in your mind you are the only opinion worth listening to but that is not the case :snapoutofit:

Ouch, zing, burn, bam!

[jungleboy]

Just have a conversation buddy, no need to always talk down to everyone you disagree with.:love0025:

[RavYak]

You don’t remember how it was when all the lakes were open for retention? Must be young or can’t see past round 1...:)
The pressure doesn’t get “spread around”....
Look at our province from a top view map.
See Edmonton and Calgary? The city’s with over a million population? Okay.
Now envision a radar circle blipping outward from each metropolis.
Every lake within 50 km gets fished out first. Don’t take long either.
Then move outward another 50km....soon those lakes are toast.
Now another 100 km.....
and so on and so on.
We just don’t have the number of lakes in the province to support that idea.

That isn't true.

I'll use Battle and Buck lakes as examples. Both these lakes were seeing significantly higher pressure due to 0 limits on other nearby lakes. The pike populations in both of these lakes consist mostly of pike under the minimum size limit and the odd fish just over the size limit. The same thing can be said about the walleye in Buck lake. Both lakes have very healthy populations of fish under the size limit. Why? Because the size limits works which AEP biologists themselves have told us multiple times(but now the politicians are making them close the lakes anyways...).

Lakes can't get fished out if size limits are set properly. Minimum size limits work and slot sizes work even better(as almost every other fishing jurisdiction in the world understands...).

Don't drink the koolaid, fisheries has spiked it so they can implement changes based on politics rather than science... If you want C&R and the odd tag then by all means support fisheries because that is all this management group plans on giving you. If you want recovered well balanced fisheries and open limits then stand up to fisheries because the only way anything is going to change is with significant angler outcry against the current poor management.

[RavYak]

That only works for a short time. Waters closest to the large cities get fished out first. Then the next closest and so on.:(

edit: I see it has already been said. Thanks Tm

Wrong. I could give you numerous examples, here is just one.

Look no further then Eagle Lake by Strathmore. It doesn't get much closer to one of our major city centers. It used to have limits of 3 pike over 63 cm, 3 walleye over 50 cm and saw significant fishing pressure.

There was netting done in 2015. As you can see in the below results and quote there was a healthy population of walleye sustaining itself, most were under 50 cm but you would have to be some kind of stupid to not understand why (50 cm size limit, small waterbody close to major city with significant fishing pressure).

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/17159e0f-4092-474f-aa09-a553b6f12f50/resource/47830187-843a-4ea0-aaa2-abc95ef72551/download/eaglelake-fallindexnettingreport-2015.pdf

However in the near future, the large density of immature Walleye in Eagle lake, dependant on its Fisheries Management Objectives, may provide opportunities for carefully managed harvests.

They closed Eagle Lake to retention that winter... Why? Because of politically motivated "Fisheries Management Objectives" aka get rid of open limits and implement a tag system...

If bigger fish is the goal then change the minimum size from 50 to 55 cm... Then you could have fish just as big as fisheries great success lakes like Pigeon which as you can see has almost no fish bigger then 55 cm even with the supposedly amazing tag program.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/4378a340-8ae5-46f7-860d-87d684d98564/resource/597305cd-b39e-4dbf-ad84-dc45f5cab63a/download/pigeonlake-fallindexnettingreport-2018.pdf

Long story short there is more then 1 way to skin a cat. Fisheries has chosen their method which to my knowledge is not used anywhere else, even in the US and some other Canadian areas which see higher angler pressure then our lakes do. There are ways to manage our fisheries here in AB with open limits without destroying lakes, I 100% guarantee it.

[wind drift]

Wrong. I could give you numerous examples, here is just one.

Look no further then Eagle Lake by Strathmore. It doesn't get much closer to one of our major city centers. It used to have limits of 3 pike over 63 cm, 3 walleye over 50 cm and saw significant fishing pressure.

There was netting done in 2015. As you can see in the below results and quote there was a healthy population of walleye sustaining itself, most were under 50 cm but you would have to be some kind of stupid to not understand why (50 cm size limit, small waterbody close to major city with significant fishing pressure).

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/17159e0f-4092-474f-aa09-a553b6f12f50/resource/47830187-843a-4ea0-aaa2-abc95ef72551/download/eaglelake-fallindexnettingreport-2015.pdf

They closed Eagle Lake to retention that winter... Why? Because of politically motivated "Fisheries Management Objectives" aka get rid of open limits and implement a tag system...

Well, that’s wrong. The 2015 Eagle Lake survey report clearly shows the abundance of walleye was low and categorized as high risk. Self-sustaining, yes, but just because the capital is generating some interest, it doesn’t mean the account is full.

If you haven’t read the recreational fishery management framework for walleye, you should. https://talkaep.alberta.ca/3948/documents/11867/download.
It also clearly shows that the prescribed management action for walleye populations in that category is catch and release or quota slot-size harvest (aka tags). That makes sense. Not political, but biological. Once a walleye population increases to at least moderate risk, then harvest options open up.

Like the plan says, the goal for the majority of walleye fisheries is sustainable harvest. Some will be managed for high quality, some for liberal harvest. There will always be some that need to be recovered. It even says stocking will be considered. Seems pretty objective, open and transparent. I just don’t see a conspiracy.

I’ve found that talking to the bios has been super helpful for me over the years, when it comes to understanding how our fisheries are managed.

[RavYak]

Well, that’s wrong. The 2015 Eagle Lake survey report clearly shows the abundance of walleye was low and categorized as high risk. Self-sustaining, yes, but just because the capital is generating some interest, it doesn’t mean the account is full.

Look at the data again. Abundance is far from low... In fact they state it has a "large density of immature walleye". The only reason it is categorized as high risk is because the mature walleye/net night is below 14.4 (was 10.0).

The lake has "very strong recruitment" and is "supported by several year-classes". Meaning even though there isn't a ton of big fish they reproduce well.

So lets get this straight. The lake has well above average population of younger walleye, shows signs of some of the best recruitment especially for a lake of its size/type and has been sustaining this population even though it is a small lake close to a major city that sees significant pressure.

Literally the only reason they classified the lake as high risk is because their system of determining risk to sustainability is imo flawed (for the above reasons).

Now lets take a look at the options fisheries had. Literally the only reason they consider the lake "high risk" is because of the number of mature walleye. Was C&R actually required to increase the number of older/larger fish??? Would increasing the minimum size limit from 50 cm to 55 cm of not significantly increased the number of larger mature fish in a lake that has so many young up and coming fish????

I stand by everything I said. The decisions made at this lake and being made across the province are not based on good science. They are based on political direction and a flawed management system. This should be obvious since like you say the goal is sustainable harvest in most lakes yet harvest is extremely limited and reducing every year...

[wind drift]

Look at the data again. Abundance is far from low... In fact they state it has a "large density of immature walleye". The only reason it is categorized as high risk is because the mature walleye/net night is below 14.4 (was 10.0).

The lake has "very strong recruitment" and is "supported by several year-classes". Meaning even though there isn't a ton of big fish they reproduce well.

So lets get this straight. The lake has well above average population of younger walleye, shows signs of some of the best recruitment especially for a lake of its size/type and has been sustaining this population even though it is a small lake close to a major city that sees significant pressure.

Literally the only reason they classified the lake as high risk is because their system of determining risk to sustainability is imo flawed (for the above reasons).

Now lets take a look at the options fisheries had. Literally the only reason they consider the lake "high risk" is because of the number of mature walleye. Was C&R actually required to increase the number of older/larger fish??? Would increasing the minimum size limit from 50 cm to 55 cm of not significantly increased the number of larger mature fish in a lake that has so many young up and coming fish????

I stand by everything I said. The decisions made at this lake and being made across the province are not based on good science. They are based on political direction and a flawed management system. This should be obvious since like you say the goal is sustainable harvest in most lakes yet harvest is extremely limited and reducing every year...

What you’re missing is that the risk to long term sustainability classification is based on adult abundance at the time of survey. Actually, the number of adults over 50 cm in Eagle is very poor, and that is not a low risk situation in the long term. This is clear evidence that nearly all of the fish that make it to the min. size are harvested that year. Good recruitment is promising, for sure, and with good protection of adults, I think this could be a fishery with sustainable, but very limited harvest into the future. Being so close to Calgary and not a large lake, it will need to be closely controlled and monitored.

[RavYak]

What you’re missing is that the risk to long term sustainability classification is based on adult abundance at the time of survey. Actually, the number of adults over 50 cm in Eagle is very poor, and that is not a low risk situation in the long term. This is clear evidence that nearly all of the fish that make it to the min. size are harvested that year. Good recruitment is promising, for sure, and with good protection of adults, I think this could be a fishery with sustainable, but very limited harvest into the future. Being so close to Calgary and not a large lake, it will need to be closely controlled and monitored.

If the bios won’t be happy without significant population over 50 cm maybe they should have set the minimum size higher...

The lake was doing fine and producing lots of fish even with 50 cm limit. Absolutely no reason to change to c&r like they did...

[does it ALL outdoors]

That lake was rocking long after the spill. If anything the spill instigated the C&R policy that benefited the pike even more! I was constantly catching 10lb+ pike well Into 2014.

A 10 pounder would be considered small by standards of days gone by.

When I say that lake was full of monsters, I mean MONSTERS