Pike tags coming up...

[Fishwhere]

Whats your thoughts on what the future for pike in alberta is?

My money is on a tag system the same as walleye, except they will be cheaper. Also guessing it will be in the next few years.

I dont want this to turn into a rant thread but with lots of places now cracking down on pike retention it leaves the lake to get overpopulated with pike and to eat out the other species. For instance a perch and pike lake i recently went to they closed down pike retention and after a few years the perch are all but gone and there is an insane amount of pike, almost everywhere around the lake. I dont think ive ever seen pike in some of the spots they were this last weekend. The temp, depth, old weeds, normally pike wouldnt be there. I think theyre getting forced outside of their ideal ranges and locations because of the overpopulation. Same can be said for walleye, but i want my pike to get some attention too! Haha

What you guys think?

[Dewey Cox]

I fear you might be right.
Tags for fish is just such a lame idea though.
So is permanent catch and release.

I think there should be retention of even just one fish per person, and adjust the length of the season according to the fish population. Open retention up for one month in the summer, and one month in the winter.
Or, maybe rotate retention on lakes to give them time to rebound.

And of course, stop all netting in lakes. You can't have a sport fishery and a commercial fishery.

[pikeman06]

Not a very successful fishery strategy when theres tags in the thousands left over from the walleye draw that obviously nobody wants. Pike tags would be even less well received. The anglers of alberta have made it pretty clear we don't like paying for poor fishery management decisions. Fishing is good in Saskatchewan, the limits are generous-most people I see out that way just keep the one or two they need to eat fresh anyways.

[JDK71]

waste of time

[mlee]

I like the rotation idea....a lake like LLB for instance....odd years keep pike even years keep walleye....cut the season back to even june 1 to March 1 and use slot sizes for both species. I'm definitely no expert but what they are doing now sure isnt working.

[mapleleafman3]

Terrible idea but I'm sure it will happen. Who knows, it might happen for every species.

I think one of the biggest mistakes they make is the sizes your allowed to keep. Makes no sense allowing only the big fish to be kept.

[thorne]

Keep it simple people. Just dont buy the Gov's stupid tags! Eventually they will get the hint.

[pikergolf]

I like the tag system, just not the way it is set up. It is way to expensive, there is no way it costs that much to run. Crap I could run that system off my home PC. I would like to see a separate license for tags, say 10 bucks gets you 10 tags and you can use them at whatever lake you like. This would help spread the pressure and still keep a lid on the amount of fish harvested.

It will be interesting to see how the carp infestation plays out and see what it does to our native fish. Pike will be very necessary to control them.

[HowSwedeItIs]

I would go to Saskatchewan before I put a single cent into this tag system

[Frank_NK28]

I'll never buy into the tag system. Heck I don't even purchase an AB resident fishing license. Living on the AB side of Lloyd the only place I even fish in AB is Cold Lake and since a SK license is valid there I buy a Canadian Resident SK license and fish SK if I want fish to eat.

[Ultimate Predator]

Money grab!!!!

[OL_JR]

I think on some lakes that see extraordinary pressure the tags have their place. Pigeon would be a good example imho. I hope that tags aren't the answer for everything going forward, then yes it would be nothing more than a money grab.

One thing for darn sure needs to be done is get better tags for fish. Ridiculous that there isn't a better system like a metal tag or something where you can put the fish in a livewell without the tags falling off.

[dfrobert]

Straight from the F&W officers mouth this last winter. Within the next 2 years Slave lake will be 1 walleye over 55cm and zero retention on Pike. Unreal. Should just shut it all down like they have for other Northern lakes so those who can net can give back to the land. Meanwhile can go catch non-stop
walleye at Wabamun. What a joke.

[Penner]

Money grab!!!!

More tags for me thanks.

[Etownpaul]

Enjoy the tagged fish while they last, eventually it’s going to be illegal to keep any fish in Alberta.

[deschambault]

With the exception of walleye tags at Newell, it already is at Southern Alberta reservoirs even though it is rare to go 5 minutes without a fish while bottom bouncing.

[Kings]

Are we as Anglers proposing this or I already this is in the plan. To me this is terrible and laziness.

[Smoky buck]

What organization represents Alberta anglers in these matters?

[pikeman06]

They just do whatever they want. Anglers show up to these consultation forums and say these lakes are over run with wallies and we need to thin them out. Then the government does a fall netting sample once every few years. Then it seems the lake is collapsed and closed for retention or goes on the tag program. Are these people test netting in the fall familiar with the lake at all? Are they even fishermen? Don't ask a couple local fishermen for some advice or invite them to tag along. It's all top secret yet they are working for wages paid by the tax payers and resource uses.

[Fishwhere]

I dont see any other thing working to be honest outside of the tag system. I dont love it but i dont have an alternative either. With the enormous amount of fishing pressure we have on our lakes in alberta compared to the other provinces it is not fair to compare to places like saskatchewan etc. they have ten times the lake, and 10 times less anglers. Not to mention a different quality of lake in general. You need to be able to control on a specific quantity per lake per year, how else do you do that. A slot wont work.... a minimum length wont work, and a maximum isnt that great either.

The main thing that bothers me about the system is specifically paying for fish. I would prefer it averaged out over all licenses to bring the cost of the “tag” down. But then everyone will apply and the people who are serious about it wont get drawn as often. Not to mention my associated finger wagging against people not cleaning fish with any respect a lot of times. But then going that route you are making people who arent wanting to keep fish also pitch in. Who knows. All i know is the one lake we are fishing the perch are wiped out by the pike, and it was unnecassary to learn the hard way.

[calgarygringo]

So you say tags are the only way yet the pike have taken over your perch lake. Thats the problem is that no limits and tags can work great sometimes but in many cases what you say is what happens. Now the pike are controlled too many survive and eat out everything. Some walleye lakes are the same. Not enough coming in then only walleye are left.



I dont see any other thing working to be honest outside of the tag system. I dont love it but i dont have an alternative either. With the enormous amount of fishing pressure we have on our lakes in alberta compared to the other provinces it is not fair to compare to places like saskatchewan etc. they have ten times the lake, and 10 times less anglers. Not to mention a different quality of lake in general. You need to be able to control on a specific quantity per lake per year, how else do you do that. A slot wont work.... a minimum length wont work, and a maximum isnt that great either.

The main thing that bothers me about the system is specifically paying for fish. I would prefer it averaged out over all licenses to bring the cost of the “tag” down. But then everyone will apply and the people who are serious about it wont get drawn as often. Not to mention my associated finger wagging against people not cleaning fish with any respect a lot of times. But then going that route you are making people who arent wanting to keep fish also pitch in. Who knows. All i know is the one lake we are fishing the perch are wiped out by the pike, and it was unnecassary to learn the hard way.

[Smoky buck]

I dont see any other thing working to be honest outside of the tag system. I dont love it but i dont have an alternative either. With the enormous amount of fishing pressure we have on our lakes in alberta compared to the other provinces it is not fair to compare to places like saskatchewan etc. they have ten times the lake, and 10 times less anglers. Not to mention a different quality of lake in general. You need to be able to control on a specific quantity per lake per year, how else do you do that. A slot wont work.... a minimum length wont work, and a maximum isnt that great either.

The main thing that bothers me about the system is specifically paying for fish. I would prefer it averaged out over all licenses to bring the cost of the “tag” down. But then everyone will apply and the people who are serious about it wont get drawn as often. Not to mention my associated finger wagging against people not cleaning fish with any respect a lot of times. But then going that route you are making people who arent wanting to keep fish also pitch in. Who knows. All i know is the one lake we are fishing the perch are wiped out by the pike, and it was unnecassary to learn the hard way.

Alberta can be managed beyond a tag system look towards the US that has a much higher population and greater pressure on their fisheries in many parts of the country.

Comparing Alberta to provinces like Saskatchewan is not a reasonable comparison. But Alberta is not alone when it comes to fishing pressure compared to North America as a whole.

[Smoky buck]

They just do whatever they want. Anglers show up to these consultation forums and say these lakes are over run with wallies and we need to thin them out. Then the government does a fall netting sample once every few years. Then it seems the lake is collapsed and closed for retention or goes on the tag program. Are these people test netting in the fall familiar with the lake at all? Are they even fishermen? Don't ask a couple local fishermen for some advice or invite them to tag along. It's all top secret yet they are working for wages paid by the tax payers and resource uses.

Do Alberta anglers have proper organized representation or is it just individual anglers speaking on consultation forums?

I have only recently moved back to Alberta so honestly don’t remember

[pikeman06]

Do Alberta anglers have proper organized representation or is it just individual anglers speaking on consultation forums?

I have only recently moved back to Alberta so honestly don’t remember

Sorry smoky. Yes there is the alberta fish and game association based out of edmonton. Volunteer based group looking out for the interests of alberta fishermen hunters etc. I'm sure they try their best.

[Smoky buck]

Sorry smoky. Yes there is the alberta fish and game association based out of edmonton. Volunteer based group looking out for the interests of alberta fishermen hunters etc. I'm sure they try their best.

Thanks

I remember them now always viewed them as more hunting related which being another big hobby of mine so not a bad thing. Maybe I just noticed their hunting related efforts more

Surprised Alberta doesn’t have a fishing organization to represent anglers alone. What I see on this forum a lot of Alberta anglers are not happy with things and feel they are ignored when it comes to what they would like to see with Alberta’s fisheries

[Flight01]

I guess southern fisheries receive more pressure , so yeah. Can see it coming eventually

Hopefully not up north. I’m catching and releasing between 15-50 pike in the 8-12 pound range when I go out for 2-3 hours. And countless baby pike that can barley take a hook.
Only keep a few each year.

[EZM]

Straight from the F&W officers mouth this last winter. Within the next 2 years Slave lake will be 1 walleye over 55cm and zero retention on Pike. Unreal. Should just shut it all down like they have for other Northern lakes so those who can net can give back to the land. Meanwhile can go catch non-stop
walleye at Wabamun. What a joke.

If I had a nickel for each time "a fish and wildlife guy said" some ridiculous comment like that I'd be rich.

How does a fish and wildlife officer predict a future law which hasn't even been tabled for evaluation, and subsequent recommendation, through the SRD's and their own biologists?

On the other hand - you are right - Wabamun is a perfect illustration of poor fisheries management. Went from a true trophy pike lake to a nursery for a billion dink sized walleye who out eat all the skinny and starving pike. So who knows what other brilliant strategy we will employ next to "manage" our fisheries.

[PerchBuster]

Hopeful the new UCP Gov will do away with tags altogether and restore retention in all the “collapsed” lakes where you can go and catch Walleye or Pike until your arm falls off. The Next Step Team is doing really great work behind the scenes for AB Anglers, in consultations with Gov officials, Biologists and other stakeholders. I expect to see a revitalized multi species stocking program restored to rehabilitate the lakes that need it and moderate retention limits brought back as well as habitat restoration where needed. The management techniques employed for the last 20 years are obviously not working worth a damn if it is still resulting in even greater numbers of closures to retention. Change of course is needed, hopefully new Gov sets it all in motion

[deschambault]

I am not opposed to a tag system, in fact if it is determined that lakes cannot sustain a daily limit then issue 1 tag per month or some other system. I like Northern Sask but it still seems strange that the best lake I know for numbers and size of both walleye and pike (Crawling Valley) is considered collapsed so I have to travel across the border to eat a walleye. I certainly support catch and release, especially of the big breeders, but a shore lunch now and then is one of the joys of fishing.

[Fishwhere]

I am not opposed to a tag system, in fact if it is determined that lakes cannot sustain a daily limit then issue 1 tag per month or some other system. I like Northern Sask but it still seems strange that the best lake I know for numbers and size of both walleye and pike (Crawling Valley) is considered collapsed so I have to travel across the border to eat a walleye. I certainly support catch and release, especially of the big breeders, but a shore lunch now and then is one of the joys of fishing.

Agreed

[Penner]

Just a matter of time until Saskatchewan does something to control the number of catch and keep Alberta anglers crossing the border. The Meadow Lake area has been hammered in recent years.

End of day limits were always intended to allow a keep of a few fish once in a while. They were never intended to be weekly or daily limits as some folks are taking it as being. Fish populations cannot keep up. Limit your catch or the bureaucrats will be forced to step in just like in Alberta.

[Smoky buck]

Just a matter of time until Saskatchewan does something to control the number of catch and keep Alberta anglers crossing the border. The Meadow Lake area has been hammered in recent years.

End of day limits were always intended to allow a keep of a few fish once in a while. They were never intended to be weekly or daily limits as some folks are taking it as being. Fish populations cannot keep up. Limit your catch or the bureaucrats will be forced to step in just like in Alberta.

Annual limits marked on your license are nice for this issue

[barbless]

Poachers don't need and will never buy tags. So you and I as responsible fishers will pay the price. Crawling Valley being shut down for at least 20 years is on the boarder of ridiculous. IMO. But you open it up then it will be a nightmare of boats and people like what happened at Pine Coulee. Burnstick over fished and no big pike to speak of. Use to catch some monsters there. You wanna hear outcries :argue2:, just shut all fishing down to all. No nets, nothing. No lines in the water for 3 years. Guess it will be nothing but pleasure boating. Buy your tags and stop sniveling or travel Canada. Some of the biggest suckers caught are here in Alberta. :bad_boys_20:

[pikeman06]

Annual limits marked on your license are nice for this issue
When I first moved to bonnyville in 1986 or 87 the local albertans were already slipping across into saskatchewan namely the meadow lake area. That's 30 years of extra fishing pressure and those lakes are still full of fish to this day. Might have to work a little harder to find your walleye because of the minnow life and general good health of those lakes.... catching and releasing 300 walleye a day is not a sign of a balanced fishery.

[Smoky buck]

When I first moved to bonnyville in 1986 or 87 the local albertans were already slipping across into saskatchewan namely the meadow lake area. That's 30 years of extra fishing pressure and those lakes are still full of fish to this day. Might have to work a little harder to find your walleye because of the minnow life and general good health of those lakes.... catching and releasing 300 walleye a day is not a sign of a balanced fishery.

Personally I don’t think the pressure excuses for a tag only system is valid. Honestly don’t believe an annual limit is needed either but it would solve the issue some bring up of people being so greedy they will deplete a lake well sticking within daily limits

Overall Alberta needs proper fisheries management and likely their is a solution somewhere between tag only retention and past daily limits. Right now neither option seems to be creating positive results

[EZM]

I have said this on a few threads with similar themes about "province wide" limits or "province wide" regulations.

It's strange to me to think this is even being discussed when you consider the simple fact that one lake/river has different populations/pressure compared to the next and the only way to effectively manage "limits" is impose specific regulations to specific watersheds.

Does anyone on here really think you can compare, for example, the overpopulated walleye on lakes like Wabamun and Pigeon and impose liberal retention limits and that those same rules (and retention limits) should apply to every other lake in the entire province?

Those aforementioned lakes can stand to loose a few million walleye and I bet the average angler wouldn't even notice. In fact the rest of the fish would be getting enough food and actually start looking normal as opposed to malnourished.

Take even a couple thousand walleye out of another lake and the fishery collapses.

The real issue is resources - we need more bios, doing more specific studies, to specific lakes in order to make appropriate recommendations to the legislators.

[pikeman06]

I have said this on a few threads with similar themes about "province wide" limits or "province wide" regulations.

It's strange to me to think this is even being discussed when you consider the simple fact that one lake/river has different populations/pressure compared to the next and the only way to effectively manage "limits" is impose specific regulations to specific watersheds.
Roger
Does anyone on here really think you can compare, for example, the overpopulated walleye on lakes like Wabamun and Pigeon and impose liberal retention limits and that those same rules (and retention limits) should apply to every other lake in the entire province?

Those aforementioned lakes can stand to loose a few million walleye and I bet the average angler wouldn't even notice. In fact the rest of the fish would be getting enough food and actually start looking normal as opposed to malnourished.

Take even a couple thousand walleye out of another lake and the fishery collapses.

The real issue is resources - we need more bios, doing more specific studies, to specific lakes in order to make appropriate recommendations to the legislators.Roger that. You get my vote. I been whining and crying for 15 years about what is wrong about the state of our fisheries and it just gets worse and more bizarre every year. EZM is our new spokesman. Your turn. I support you 100 percent. Some people will take great offense to what is obvious, you might get a warning and some ignorant pm's. Wonder how many precious wallies are fly food by noon Monday in this province on a nice hot august long weekend? Most of them in lakes that no one even wants to eat a walleye out of but there are tags in the hundreds if not thousands still available.

[SNAPFisher]

Roger that. You get my vote. I been whining and crying for 15 years about what is wrong about the state of our fisheries and it just gets worse and more bizarre every year. EZM is our new spokesman. Your turn. I support you 100 percent. Some people will take great offense to what is obvious, you might get a warning and some ignorant pm's. Wonder how many precious wallies are fly food by noon Monday in this province on a nice hot august long weekend? Most of them in lakes that no one even wants to eat a walleye out of but there are tags in the hundreds if not thousands still available.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, EZM. I hope you want the job. You've been voluntold :)

I would think that most if not all anglers on here agree with you EZM. I've also seen a lot of similar comments about water body specific regulations. That would require more man power for sure.

It would take a long time to count up how many misinformed comments on here about how the tag system is a cash grab. But one of the best comments I've heard is take the administrative costs of running the tag systems and use that instead to hire more bios. There isn't enough there to hire much but it would be a step in the right direction.


PikeMan,
Just regarding your comment on the tag system for walleye and your thoughts about it not being popular, here is some math and science to debunk that:

Deer, Moose, Elk Total left 2029
Avg % used 73%

Walleye Total left 3161
Avg % used 90%

Yep, there are thousands left just like hunting tags. But, walleye tags are clearly more popular and well used than any other. Whether you like that or not the numbers support it. Those 3161 are all Class C tags. All class A and B tags are 100% gone. If there were no class Cs the uptake would be 100%. So even at that the 3161 is very skewed.

And, like hunting tags, it all depends on location and a lot of other factors. No one here is surprised that there are class Cs left for Pigeon...
Well, maybe you are... :)

[Smoky buck]

EMZ makes a number of good points. More bio’s to help increase the knowledge of Alberta’s fisheries that are focused on proper management and finding steps needed to enhancethe fishery would be valuable. I also agree that regulations need to be based on each body of water but spreading pressure still needs to be taken into consideration

These are good things but anglers need to understand things like this cost $ and anglers need to lobby for these kinds of change. If anglers want to see change there needs to be a voice lobbying with strong support with a direct focused message. The funding needs to come from somewhere as well

[Fishwhere]

I have said this on a few threads with similar themes about "province wide" limits or "province wide" regulations.

It's strange to me to think this is even being discussed when you consider the simple fact that one lake/river has different populations/pressure compared to the next and the only way to effectively manage "limits" is impose specific regulations to specific watersheds.

Does anyone on here really think you can compare, for example, the overpopulated walleye on lakes like Wabamun and Pigeon and impose liberal retention limits and that those same rules (and retention limits) should apply to every other lake in the entire province?

Those aforementioned lakes can stand to loose a few million walleye and I bet the average angler wouldn't even notice. In fact the rest of the fish would be getting enough food and actually start looking normal as opposed to malnourished.

Take even a couple thousand walleye out of another lake and the fishery collapses.

The real issue is resources - we need more bios, doing more specific studies, to specific lakes in order to make appropriate recommendations to the legislators.

Agree. Lake by lake basis. We are setting targets and rules based on throwing darts and seeing how the lake reacts

[EZM]

I appreciate the nomination and all the positive comments :) - BUT - Unfortunately until there is a resolution proposed by someone like AFGA to lobby for more resources like more bios to help us manage our fisheries - we will all be having this discussion all over again.

It also costs money, but I'm pretty sure the average guy wouldn't mind paying a little more for his licence or tags to be able to enjoy a sustainable and renewable resource where we can catch healthy numbers of healthy fish and maybe keep a couple for the dinner table every once in a while.

Right now - that's really one of the very few organisations with enough membership (and clout) to get any attention in this province.