Groenewold Fur and Wool - Alberta (Take 2)

[Marty S]

https://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/coyklr/ATA%20NOV%20FINAL%20AD_p001_zps4fbfyjoi.jpg (https://s82.photobucket.com/user/coyklr/media/ATA%20NOV%20FINAL%20AD_p001_zps4fbfyjoi.jpg.html)

[Marty S]

There is much to do to build this thing in Alberta and the demand for it is HOT!!!!

Things are happening rapidly as GFW reacts to the demand. We are currently trying to ascertain buying locations. A lot of talent happening on the GFW Canada team and looking to increase who's already at the table.

Just to clarify, we do not yet know who of the team will be attending Red Deer for sure, let's say 3/4 of the team will be there, not 100% sure that Dave Bewick will be there. Athabasca and Lloydminster will be either most of the team or 3/4 again. Looks like we will certainly be in the Grand Prairie area, possibly with the team, possibly myself, and if so I better eat my wheaties that day. We will keep you posted.

So I forgot the phone number in that PDF/JPG... here is it

GFW Alberta Agent: Marty Senneker cell 403-654-7160

[Marty S]

Watch this thread on the Canadian Coyote Company sponsor forum for dates/locations/routes:

http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?p=4060679#post4060679

[dugh]

Well done, attracting them to western Canada.

[kingrat]

Does that mean you won't be shipping to fha marty?

[Marty S]

Oh... I’m gonna say the fur is what attracted them, the opportunity to expand their business. I didn’t do it! It was probably a plan orchestrated long ago due to demand from their customers. This thing will be interesting to see how it all plays out.Welcome to the new wild fur post-NAFA landscape! Seeing this company expand rapidly into Canada does demonstrate a degree of health and confidence in the marketplace and therefore our wild fur industry.

[Saskfly16]

They only taking put up fur at this point or are they buying green?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marty S]

Mostly dried goods, some carcass/skinned-froze.

I'm supposed to visit a guy at Killam/Viking area on this Friday 29th, let me know if you want me to stop by, I'll be in the area.

[Big Grey Wolf]

It is encouraging to see a American buyer moving to replace NAFA. However NAFA and FHA were auction houses and always provide the Real market Value for our furs less commission and drumming. A cash buyer must always bid lower than estimated market price to protect himself from a poorer/lower auction result later in the year. The positive is "Cash/Bird in hand". Just my thoughts!

[kingrat]

Groeny is a little different in that he has his own markets so I believe hes not shipping to say nafa and fha trying to turn a profit like most buyers do. I'll be shipping to fha, but am interested to see what he'll be paying. Lots of guys in the states end up better selling to him than they would to nafa after commission etc.

[Marty S]

Well, lucky for you, you will have a Saskatchewan option, you probly know that by now? Don Gordon is on board. I suspect he'll be setting up buying locations as well.

[Marty S]

It is encouraging to see a American buyer moving to replace NAFA. However NAFA and FHA were auction houses and always provide the Real market Value for our furs less commission and drumming. A cash buyer must always bid lower than estimated market price to protect himself from a poorer/lower auction result later in the year. The positive is "Cash/Bird in hand". Just my thoughts!

I wouldn't stereotype this company, they are different, they have done a massive amount of wild fur promotion around the world and have many, many, many direct customers. Do watch the "Guy Groenewold In A Chinese Fur Mall" video on facebook... absolutely mindblowing... 1 km long malls four stories high filled with fur stores, and little ranch mink to be seen and these people are heavily entrenched in that land.

Groenewolds was NAFA's largest competitor in the wild fur scene. Funny thing is most Canadian trappers never heard of these people! They bought massive volumes of fur at NAFA, all wild. These people pay established world market prices, often levels that they directly establish.

Interesting times ahead as we push on in the new post-NAFA landscape.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Marty, thanks for the additional clarification on them, as you said will be interesting times without NAFA.

[kingrat]

Well, lucky for you, you will have a Saskatchewan option, you probly know that by now? Don Gordon is on board. I suspect he'll be setting up buying locations as well.

Ya Don's about an hour away, options are always good.

[HunterDave]

I don’t think that GFW will do as well out West as they do in the US. We have a pretty good logistical network of fur depots as opposed to down in the States. I’ve seen what American Trappers are getting for their fur from local buyers and it’s absolutely ridiculous. When GFW comes in and pays a little more it looks like a great bargain.

I’m pretty sure that GFW won’t be offering as much as what you would get at auction otherwise, what’s the point? If you can get $100 for a pelt at auction, based on reasonable expectations, selling for immediate payment at $80 isn’t all that appealing to someone that doesn’t need the cash right away. It might be what some people want though, who knows. Kind of like Payday Loans where you get money right away at a cost?

It’s not something that I’m Interested in but it might be a good option for other people......for whatever reason. It’s nice to have the option available.

[South west trappin RG]

Just wondering if you had any info on what quality of fur GFW was buying at Nafa in the past? Was it the high end middle lower end? I think it’s great there is another option

[trigger7mm]

When a buyer comes and looks at your fur, does he pay with cash or by cheque? I know that being payed with a cheque from a travelling fur buyer would be a chance that I personally wouldn’t want to take. Especially when there have been cases of fur cheque’s bouncing. It’s a shame, but in today’s world, trust isn’t what it used to be.

[pikeslayer22]

When a buyer comes and looks at your fur, does he pay with cash or by cheque? I know that being payed with a cheque from a travelling fur buyer would be a chance that I personally wouldn’t want to take. Especially when there have been cases of fur cheque’s bouncing. It’s a shame, but in today’s world, trust isn’t what it used to be.
I’m out 500$ from a NAFA bounced cheque so what’s the difference

[Marty S]

Dave, youre right, Alberta didnt need another low paying fur dealer. If these folks were just another run of the mill buyer then i wouldn't have jumped on board. Im a commission buyer, just paid a set amount per head. The have set levels to pay and i pay those set amounts by grade. Those established levels are called world market levels.

Rod, GFW would generally have fur bought for them by their broker, he bought everything from hogh end cats and lynx to wolves to ermine. Quite the guy, a wealth of knowledge.

As it isnt safe to drive around with gobs of cash, cheques and wire transfers are common today. If that isnt good enough you can send your goods to auction and get their cheque and hope they dont go bankrupt. I cantvaffotd to hire an amoured truck to follow me around all da!

Do note... NAFA isnt the first wild fur auction to go bankrupt. Perhaps study relatively recent history.

[HunterDave]

Are you going to be buying all grades of Yotes, Marty, or just the higher, marketable grades?

I’d also be curious if you’ll be buying deer, elk and moose hides.

The first auction will tell the tale when the auction prices less drumming and commissions are compared to GFW prices.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I guess I like model of our past ATA president Gordy K. He would pay cash and you had a real store/building. If Gordy grossly under payed for pelt you could come to his outdoor supply store, let him know you were not pleased, and not buy any traps from him.

[trigger7mm]

The fellows we’ve been dealing with the past few years come out on site and pay us cash. No problem.

[dugh]

Safety is a huge issue when travelling with that much cash. Returning with a truck load of fur (at today's prices) not so much. This year may be more of a gamble for fur buyers.

[kritz]

Bottom line is this is a second option for western trappers to send fur. Try some fur to build a relationship and see what prices are like, or have a place to unload some fur without sending to auction and waiting and hoping for the best. Get a quicker return on some funds. This is going to help keep our market alive in our jurisdiction. It will have its PRO's and CON's just like sending to auction. This will work better for some people, it wont work for everybody and making everybody happy is impossible.

Thanks Marty for helping get a second market for fur to our area.

[Whitetail200]

Well been there done that back in 1978 selling to fur buyers like many others did , like Big Grey Wolf said they always bid lower than market to protect themselves & they do have to make a profit which is part of the their business . Like others have said on here its nice to have another option for those that want it . Of course time will tell between Auction /commission/drumming etc. & Groenewold prices .

[Marty S]

Well, word of advice for those who want to just dabble... bring some quality goods if you want to see the big prices! If you show up with just run of the mill average II’s we won’t get to have any fun!

[rbsask]

It’ll be nice to know what an average will look like once people start selling without cherry picking the good ones. With the dollar the way it is they should be able to offer a fairly good price.

[kingrat]

For some reason rough averages of what they can or will pay seem to be top secret. I can drive 15 minutes and drop off for fha, or I can drive 60 mins one way and find out. I'd think if they really wanted to buy a pile of coyotes they'd be telling everyone that they will be paying x amount for whatever quality. Than let people decide if they want to risk fha or take the cash and run. Not just come in and well have some fun wtf does that mean.

[209x50]

For some reason rough averages of what they can or will pay seem to be top secret. I can drive 15 minutes and drop off for fha, or I can drive 60 mins one way and find out.
In all fairness how could they give you a rough average. On coyotes you may or maynot have at this moment? I can tell you the prices paid will vary from a couple bucks to a 100 or so. Take your catch, invest 60 minutes in satisfying your curiosity and if your not happy drop your fur of at FHA depot on the way home. Easy LOL!!

[kingrat]

Tons of buyers give out rough averages of what they will be paying it's pretty simple really. It's called a rough Ave for a reason not a guarantee.

[209x50]

Tons of buyers give out rough averages of what they will be paying it's pretty simple really. It's called a rough Ave for a reason not a guarantee.

So what are the buyers saying their average this year is? Just curious.

[kingrat]

On what are you curious about? Beavers 10 to 15, rats 2-4, otter 10-20. Coon 5-10. Western heavy coyotes cant tell you that's top secret.

[rbsask]

I agree with kingrat. They say they are paying superb prices for coyotes so they obviously know what their going to pay, just give us an idea. Marty said they have set levels to pay for each grade

[209x50]

I agree with kingrat. They say they are paying superb prices for coyotes so they obviously know what their going to pay, just give us an idea. Marty said they have set levels to pay for each grade

Then I guess if they really want your business they will get the information out there. Otherwise it looks like they really don't want your business.

[outofbounds]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thompsoncitizen.net/news/thompson/trappers-will-have-choice-of-three-buyers-at-this-year-s-thompson-fur-table-dec-20-21-1.24026410&ved=2ahUKEwjlscTj9p_mAhWXvZ4KHYXXCEMQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw03ubI8_MHo47wpuQtV9Y-e

Keep an eye on the Thompson Fur Tables turnout and results.

Pricing here will reflect where markets will be this season.

[kingrat]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thompsoncitizen.net/news/thompson/trappers-will-have-choice-of-three-buyers-at-this-year-s-thompson-fur-table-dec-20-21-1.24026410&ved=2ahUKEwjlscTj9p_mAhWXvZ4KHYXXCEMQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw03ubI8_MHo47wpuQtV9Y-e

Keep an eye on the Thompson Fur Tables turnout and results.

Pricing here will reflect where markets will be this season.

well kind of not really, those buyers turn around and flip it to make a profit so typically they will offer under market value. But yes its a rough idea.

[outofbounds]

Yes exactly, just like the rest of the cash on the barrel head buyers.

Marten pricing will be lower as many had been left on the hook with advancing higher prices only to receive less at the auction.

The cash buyers rely on the delta between what is offered as a cash in hand sale for the harvester and numbers sold later at auction for profit.

[Camdec]

It’s an auction. Any prediction incorrect would be chastised. Send in fur. Hope for the best results.

[HunterDave]

If the prices being paid were that great you’d think that they’d advertise the heck out of it. Not being upfront with prices not so much.....

[goose slayer10]

It would be poor business to advertise prices. Firstly do all you coyote killers want every person with a gun running around the country side to know prices. And secondly no listing of prices leaves no preconceived notion of what one should be paid, you get your fur graded, they offer you money, you choose to take it or don't. They aren't going to spoon feed us specific numbers...same as the auction provides no guarantee.

In my head I have a number I would be content if my coyotes sold for. If GFW pays this..and cash none the less..its likely better to not be greedy and just sell. Just my thoughts. If someone offered you the price you were asking for a used vehicle, would you refuse and send it to auction just because it might sell higher?

Just some thoughts from an uneducated youth.

[gman1978]

It would be poor business to advertise prices. Firstly do all you coyote killers want every person with a gun running around the country side to know prices. And secondly no listing of prices leaves no preconceived notion of what one should be paid, you get your fur graded, they offer you money, you choose to take it or don't. They aren't going to spoon feed us specific numbers...same as the auction provides no guarantee.

In my head I have a number I would be content if my coyotes sold for. If GFW pays this..and cash none the less..its likely better to not be greedy and just sell. Just my thoughts. If someone offered you the price you were asking for a used vehicle, would you refuse and send it to auction just because it might sell higher?

Just some thoughts from an uneducated youth.

Very good post. I have dealt with fur buyers in the past and if they "know" you and what product you usually have they will quote you some rough averages over the phone. They don't want to publicly advertise a price and get caught. If they did that next thing you know a guy shows up and is trying to sell all the poorer stuff, that might not be a bad thing just don't expect the top price. Relationships have to be built like anything else. One thing I know at times we did better selling to the fur buyer and the times we sold for slightly more on the auction, is was a small amount. I think some guys just like the whole auction process of seeing their "grades" watching one sell "high", posting there grades on the net and so on. Remember you are working with averages when you sell to a fur buyer usually on your whole lot. Not every fur buyer is trying to rip you off.

[AlbertaAl]

When a buyer comes and looks at your fur, does he pay with cash or by cheque? I know that being payed with a cheque from a travelling fur buyer would be a chance that I personally wouldn’t want to take. Especially when there have been cases of fur cheque’s bouncing. It’s a shame, but in today’s world, trust isn’t what it used to be.

Did anyone find out if payments will be cash or cheque on Dec 17
Your bank will put a 5 business day HOLD on a cheque

[Marty S]

Some very big averages happening on the coyotes these days in the country!!!

Sounds like a lot of coyotes to be had this season, big numbers. Could be a very large harvest, sell early, sell often to take advantage of the spike. If there’s an overproduction such as a few years ago, the prices could easily soften later in the season.

Harvest size is always directly tied to price. The country buying by the large companies rallying for goods sets the values for the year in addition to what has happened at auction in previous season. Even some of the big Italian buyers are seeking goods in the country this year, desiring uniformity in their purchased collections which has always been a sore spot for them traditionally at auction, as well as dodging the excess auction fees. I do believe that is one plus of FHA over NAFA, from the buyers perspective, I do believe FHAs buyer fees are lower than NAFAs.

That’s coyotes.

Then the other stuff, selling to the various buyers moves your goods and puts the money in your pocket rather than having the less desired goods sit unsold for very lengthy time periods. Some buyers have standing orders for many goods at set levels, and in addition to that, some buyers speculate buy on a long term basis, buying goods and waiting for the orders to come.

GFW buys a lot of otherwise unwanted goods and sorts/grades and catalogues the goods. Then they make the goods available/known to their potential buyers and when the buyers are ready, they make their order and GFW fills it it’s their available inventories.

Cool company, I jumped on with them, not to get rich, but because this is a very good thing for the Alberta/Canadian trappers.

The more people standing there waving cash at the trappers, the better it is for the trapper. However, there is a shortage of people standing there waving money at the trappers these days for anything other than coyotes.

Do note... GFW buys most everything.

[dugh]

Relationship building.
I'm not sure I can get to Red deer on the 17th so I hope GFW has been invited to Westlock for the Christmas Open House on the 14th.
Meet and greet, relationship building.

[Marty S]

Are you going to be buying all grades of Yotes, Marty, or just the higher, marketable grades?

I’d also be curious if you’ll be buying deer, elk and moose hides.

The first auction will tell the tale when the auction prices less drumming and commissions are compared to GFW prices.

Sorry Dave, others, didn't catch all the questions. Been very busy.

GFW buys everything, they don't just pick and chose and leave the trapper with a picked over collection with the desire-ables out and the non-desire-able unsold for great lengths of time. They buy all grades of coyotes, lynx, marten, beaver, rats, coon, wolves, otters, wolverine, even ermine.

Squirrels kinda tough these days, lotsa squirrels buy-able at auction for 0.25 unless they cleared them out... hope so. But otters are a zero demand item and they will buy them, not great prices but it puts money in the trappers pocket for his efforts instead of nothing. Can't pay bills with unsold skins.

GFW might buy deer hides, elk moose etc in the USA, but they are currently not buying such items here in Canada. Perhaps in the future, but currently the door is only open a crack, ZERO prep time and the season was upon us.

I guess we are buying castoreum. I'm told at $80 per pound, that may be for clean, may be for all. The "CastorMan" is buying for GFW in Ontario somewhere, therefore GFW has access to one of the very best castor outlets.

[Marty S]

Relationship building.
I'm not sure I can get to Red deer on the 17th so I hope GFW has been invited to Westlock for the Christmas Open House on the 14th.
Meet and greet, relationship building.

It’s not our building, and the ATA promotes the FHA. I’m sure we’d be welcome for coffee and donuts but weren’t asked to set up, besides our guys will be in Thompson that day.

We will be in Athabasca, Debolt, Minburn and again in Red Deer week of Jan 16 to Jan 19.


http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=373620

[jeffreys 21234]

Well had first experience with gfw in sask in pa they had 3 diff fur buyers an u went threw an they each gave u a offer was hoping gfw was gonna. Be the top seller but I sold to a diff buyer along with most the people there

[kingrat]

Who was the buyer you ended up selling to?

[jeffreys 21234]

Wrangler Hamm is who I ended up selling to

[kingrat]

Thanks I was wondering how he was gonna do going against the almighty best prices you've ever seen groeny buyers.ive talked to a few guys that said the same as you.

[shakeyleg02]

Wrangler Hamm is who I ended up selling to

What was groeny paying if u dont mind saying ? Or just pm me bud

[204ruger]

Just sold 23 coyotes with groenwald. Took what I thought to be a variety of coyotes and I’m actually quite happy with what I got. No commission, no shipping except my gas. Cheque in hand. Same as I did last year first nafa sale. Groenwald was the only option in Clavet today.
Should have took all I had but thought 23 would b a good test.

[kingrat]

Was everyone made to sign non disclosure agreements or did he threaten lives?.guys are all over posting ave on here after sales. What's the big secret now.

[kingrat]

Anyone on Facebook the Saskatchewan wild fur industry page has a bunch of guys reporting Ave from 115 to 150 junk included so that's pretty good Ave with no commissions, exchange rate etc.

[204ruger]

So I averaged 120$

Best I could understand pricing on mine was
170$ for select
150$ for #1
125$ for #2
100$ for lesser #2
75$ for not sure.
Then I had 3 for 30$ each. Early flats.

[huntinggr81]

Pretty good experience with them today at Red Deer drop off. Sold 17 out of 20 for $140 average. The other 3 - 1 was garbage (I pretty much knew it) & other 2 I decided to save for another day as should have been worth a little more in my opinion. All in all I thought it was pretty good & will go again to them in New Year.

[AltaKen]

I second that opinion as I went there with a minimum average price in mind and they offered me a bit more. Pretty straight people do deal with if you ask me.

[dugh]

That's good news. Always good to have options.

[paulyisit73]

anyone here sell some yotes to Marty and his group?

[paulyisit73]

guess my page needed to refresh... I see some sold to Groenewold. I just took 10 to see what I could get. Made out ok I guess. Kinda expected a bit more after hearing all the talk of 130 average ppl should be getting, and all the hype about how much fur everyone still wants and how high the prices are gonna be this year, and we even want your early fur...
I wanted an education on how they grade because I am kinda new and unaware. They showed me what they wanted and why mine were graded the way they were. After that I could kind of see why I got what I got.
2 sold for 150
4 sold at 125
3 sold at 100
1 sold at 70
I am headed to edmonton friday, I will bring another 10 or 15 to Haliford and see what they offer me. Those ones probably aren't as good as the ones I sold to
Groenwold so will be interesting to see what happens there. Then depending on what happens with Haliford, I will bring the next batch to auction. I brought 5 furs for my buddy and they didn't even want them. And after my education from them I can see why, but he was ****ed... he said he averaged 60 to 80 at auction for the exact same thing... so who knows

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys, I guess it is very simple, Fur Buyers pay "wholesale or black book" prices for our furs. When you send to auction you realize "Retail prices" less drumming and commission. A Fur buyer needs to have a return for his time and expenses plus risk of market changing before he sells the skins. Also cost of capital to buy the fur. My thoughts are high capital costs probably put NAFA under as CIBC no longer wanted to share the risk with them.

[209x50]

Guys, I guess it is very simple, Fur Buyers pay "wholesale or black book" prices for our furs. When you send to auction you realize "Retail prices" less drumming and commission. A Fur buyer needs to have a return for his time and expenses plus risk of market changing before he sells the skins. Also cost of capital to buy the fur. My thoughts are high capital costs probably put NAFA under as CIBC no longer wanted to share the risk with them.
Much as we all hate the banks CIBC had nothing to do with NAFA going under. The deferred funds deal with the mink producers was the key to the whole sordid mess.

[pikeslayer22]

guess my page needed to refresh... I see some sold to Groenewold. I just took 10 to see what I could get. Made out ok I guess. Kinda expected a bit more after hearing all the talk of 130 average ppl should be getting, and all the hype about how much fur everyone still wants and how high the prices are gonna be this year, and we even want your early fur...
I wanted an education on how they grade because I am kinda new and unaware. They showed me what they wanted and why mine were graded the way they were. After that I could kind of see why I got what I got.
2 sold for 150
4 sold at 125
3 sold at 100
1 sold at 70
I am headed to edmonton friday, I will bring another 10 or 15 to Haliford and see what they offer me. Those ones probably aren't as good as the ones I sold to
Groenwold so will be interesting to see what happens there. Then depending on what happens with Haliford, I will bring the next batch to auction. I brought 5 furs for my buddy and they didn't even want them. And after my education from them I can see why, but he was ****ed... he said he averaged 60 to 80 at auction for the exact same thing... so who knows
Halfords only has a buyer in on Wednesday’s...found that out today

[mrbgamehunter]

Halfords only has a buyer in on Wednesday’s...found that out today

He also pays cash for furs.

[Big Grey Wolf]

209, You seem to have some detailed info on NAFA failure. Just wondering if you can explain the "Deffered funds" with mink farmers putting under a 350 year Hudson Bay spin off company for us trappers.

[kingrat]

209, You seem to have some detailed info on NAFA failure. Just wondering if you can explain the "Deffered funds" with mink farmers putting under a 350 year Hudson Bay spin off company for us trappers.

pretty sure thats been discussed and explained many times in the past month. Long story short nafa gives mink ranchers huge loans to finish off mink with expectation that they get paid back plus interest once the mink sell. Mink sell for less than what is owed, ranchers declare bankruptcies and nafa dont get paid. Eventually the bank says no thanks to much risk to loan you money or allow a line of credit etc and boom here we are. 100% not cibc fault. Why do you think no other bank or lender would touch them.

[kingrat]

off topic but ask yourselves when mink were ave over 100 bucks and wild fur was booming 5 years ago for those few years, what did nafa do with the millions in revenue from commission they earned?

[Big Grey Wolf]

Kingrat, appears to be a reasonable explanation. However their is a half dozen mink ranchers that are secured Creditors owed millions on the list of $50 million outstanding creditors including us trappers.

[kingrat]

Ya nafa is or was owned like 75% by mink ranchers.
Not all ranchers took loans obviously and some were doing ok or in a position to invest money. Now theres rumours of some mink ranchers starting up another auction.

[209x50]

pretty sure thats been discussed and explained many times in the past month. Long story short nafa gives mink ranchers huge loans to finish off mink with expectation that they get paid back plus interest once the mink sell. Mink sell for less than what is owed, ranchers declare bankruptcies and nafa dont get paid. Eventually the bank says no thanks to much risk to loan you money or allow a line of credit etc and boom here we are. 100% not cibc fault. Why do you think no other bank or lender would touch them.

No, That was not the whole story the big truth actually it looks on the surface to be shady but I'm not an expert. When mink were so high the mink farmers only took a small amount of their earnings and left the rest with NAFA in a deferred funds account that was to pay 5%. Why this was done is the purview of much smarter men than me, perhaps tax mitigation? Of course $100 mink were unsustainable and in the rout that followed the final hammer dropped in September when the two largest mink farmers pulled 30 million they were owed out draining the deferred funds account. The rest went down the drain in a hurry. Much of NAFA's spending in China and Asia becomes understandable when viewed through the lens that they had to promote the "Walmart Fur" model. china was the only place to sell huge amounts of ranched fur in a market that didn't care what fur it was or where it came from.

More interesting is the current FIOD the Netherlands equivalent of the IRS investigating undeclared mink sales and bank accounts related to a large international fur auction.

[209x50]

Kingrat, appears to be a reasonable explanation. However their is a half dozen mink ranchers that are secured Creditors owed millions on the list of $50 million outstanding creditors including us trappers.

IFF is owed about 2.4 million euro and that isn't on the list. There is a huge amount of money not yet on that list!

There is something trying to be arranged as far as the fur still being held by NAFA. Perhaps good news but I'm not at liberty to discuss it.

[Marty S]

Definitely a very intricate/complex plot/storeyline. Far more than what appears on the surface.

[Tfng]

Where are the buying routes and dates posted? I’m having difficulty locating them.

[Marty S]

GFW keeps their website updated. They now have Canada included on their map resource.

Watch for updated locations in the next few days. In particular Alberta.

Also find notices on the Canadian Coyote Company forum here:
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=135

Also can watch on my old website: martysenneker.com

[Marty S]

Updated Buying Location List:
(dates to follow, am finalizing buying locations over holidays)

Hays - Of course anytime I am available. Do call and set up a time. Bear in mind there is no panic to get your fur done up if bringing to my Hays location. You have time, can come regularly. Do bear in mind, we will be on a buying rampage the week of January 12 thru 19, possibly 20.

Stavely

Calgary

Drayton Valley

Barrhead

Castor

Wainwright - Provost - Hughenden - Czar Area

Bonnyville - St Paul Area

Red Deer Valley Center Hall

Minburn - Vermillion Area - Minburn Agriculture Center

Athabasca Jan 18 - Amber Valley Hall

Debolte - Jan 19 Goodwin Hall


Also, for the non-skinners, I will be buying whole carcass coyotes at each location. Bring lots, my most excellent skinner is hungry for work!
No lice coyotes, mange, trash

[Marty S]

Jan 9 – LETHBRIDGE AB – Location TBA
Begins at 2:00 PM

Jan 12 – STAVELY AB – Stavely Community Center
8:00 AM to 12:00 PM – Located in town of Stavely

Jan 12 – CALGARY/STRATHMORE AB – Cheadle Hall
2:30 PM to 7:00 PM – 5 miles west of Strathmore, 1.5 miles south

Jan 13 – DRAYTON VALLEY AB – Buck Creek Hall
9:00 AM to 1:00 PM – 2 miles East of D.V. on Hwy 39, then 7.5 miles South on RR 71

Jan 13 – BARRHEAD AB – Glenreagh Hall
2:30 PM to 7:30 PM – 1 mile north Hwy 18, then 1 mile west on Hwy 33

Jan 14 – BONNYVILLE AB – Eastbourne Community Hall
9:00 AM – 7:00 PM – 9 miles SW of Bonnyville on Hwy 28

JAN 15 – HAYS AB – Canadian Coyote Company HQ
9:00 AM to 8:00 PM- #14 Central Avenue South

JAN 16 - RED DEER AB Valley Center Community Hall
10:00 AM to 7:00 PM - Located 7 miles east of Red Deer on Hwy 595, 1 mile north

Jan 17 – CZAR/HUGHENDEN AB
9:00 AM – 1:00 PM – Location TBA

JAN 17 – MINBURN AB – Minburn Ag Society Hall
2:30 AM to 7:00 PM - Located in village of Minburn


JAN 18 – ATHABASCA AB – Amber Valley Hall
8:30 AM to 7:00 PM – Located 13 miles East of Athabasca on Hwy 55

JAN 19 – DEBOLTE AB – Goodwin Hall
8:00 AM to 7:00 PM – Located ½ mile East of Trapper Gord’s Trading Post , then ½ mile South

[ruger300]

Thanks Marty, are you gonna be in barrhead on the 13?

[Marty S]

Ill be at all of them, as well Howard Trager.

Very interesting fellow Howard. He is third generation in the fur business, likely the most knowledgeable man in the entire wild fur industry, if not that then definitely amongst the most elite. He and his father Sam are from Montreal, both fur brokers. Anybody who wants to learn more in depth about the fur industry, Howard is the man. The man buys an obscene amount of fur annually, was extremely busy at NAFA each and every sale, grading goods and then buying mass amounts of fur in the buying room for his many customers.

[wolfboy]

How was the fur buying in lethbridge did you pick up some decent skins

[PCP_ECOM]

Nice bunch of yotes right there

[Marty S]

Update: Provost/Czar/Hughenden/Wainwright Area

Golden Circle Hall

Time 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM Apparently next door to the Community Hall. Trying to get in range of numerous communities.



Lethbridge was good, bought a bunch, happy customers. Bought all except 2 small batches that had significant damage. We don’t pay big money for second or third rate goods, but will take them at market value as well.

On that note... trapper tip... avoidable damage... if you tear a bum or have a pelvic rip from bullet damage, always keep the skin complete and make the repair. Do NOT trim off pieces of skin instead of repairing. Incomplete skins are damaged skins. Lucky for the dudes there are people that don’t like grading and buy on averages. But the market is changing rapidly by people who have the customers, and of those people those who do their customers well under a very scrutinizing eye will be in the game long term, those who do not will likely have to find new customers. But who knows in this new post-NAFA fur world.

It’s going to take this season to end and the end users analyzing the goods people bought for them. The old tricks of yesteryear might not stand without good ole NAFA in the game.

I do look forward to hearing how this coyote season shakes out... and all the other goods. Good luck to everybody. I believe we will see FHA step up and fix a lot of the long term problems that plagued the industry, I hope so. I expect that in this new fur world the fur will sell, I suspect the goods will not be over protected any longer, and goods that can freely move into the market make end users money that they can flip and come back for more and more. Good chance we will see much sold at any offer, undoubtably cheap, lots of stuff but the good thing is it would/will kick start the wild fur that has been stagnating for so long.

[204ruger]

Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.

[trigger7mm]

Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.

Got exactly the same average for my coyotes on the second round as I did on the first. I was happy with the results.

[pointer]

Question for the guys that sold with groenwald the first go round and we’re happy , were you equally as happy with the prices the second go round?
Just curious I never got to make it to second time here in Saskatoon but went to the first in clavet and was happy.
Considering you believe you had same quality of fur in second as u did the first time.

I wasn’t overly happy with the prices on the second round. I done better on my dogs back in December with early coyotes then I done with December/January coyotes. Most likely try out other buyers in the future for my coyotes. My other furs went at a decent price.

[PCP_ECOM]

Nice bunch of yotes right there

Just went for $132 avg

[Fur Harvesters Auction]

https://www.furharvesters.com/pdf/pressreleaseJAN20.pdf

[Marty S]

Them country dealers sure went bonkers eh?

The games this year, wow! Looks like Boots has some very big plans. I sure hope he doesn't ruin the whole coyote market with his gameplay... oh wait, if I was a betting man my guess is he'll have help! Then I hope others don't ruin it with their past apathetic attitudes and negligence towards market needs.

So intriguing watching things unfold. I knew it was going to be an interesting year and that many folks would have plans, some big, some small. Some successful plays, while others fail, and yet other outcomes yet to be seen.

It is a common thing for things to get extremely strong $$$ exactly before a major fall. Just look at the ranch mink. Coyotes a complete different game but the danger in the coyote going so strong is the fact that those users working tight profit margins will be out in the cold and then we lose potential otherwise long term customers. Fine and dandy if the people who accept the hard upward push do so long term but if they are suddenly out in the cold themselves for some reason then what do we have left? Well definitely one mass customer but where are we now without competition in the marketplace?

It can so easily go bad.

If you are a small buyer operating on your own cash, BEWARE!!!... the fur market has broken many, many people/companies and will continue to do so so long as it exists! DO NOT BUY FUR ON PERSONAL CREDIT AT THIS TIME!!! Do learn from the lessons of past markets over past decades from people who have been there and done that.

But when all's said and done... GO FUR MARKET!!! GO FHA!!! GO COUNTRY DEALERS!!! I hope it's a win for all!

Give me a $200 coyote average and I am a full time trapper.... full time trapper seeking a 1500 coyote season!!! Probly!

[kingrat]

Your a buyer for the biggest fur buyer in the world Marty.
Pay yourself a 200 dollar ave on your own coyotes and call it bonkers.in all seriousness how many dogs do you very roughly estimate that the groeny company has bought in the west so far? Any idea or are you allowed to say

[kingrat]

And who the hell is boots and what's he doing?

[Marty S]

Boots is a fictional charectar. All above langauge fictional... science fiction... based totally on my personal speculation. Zero fact... is the fat man right???

Give Bryce a call and ask him if he could post his numbers for you. He’d be the best guy to ask. Im sure he’ll get right on it for you. Hes a very nice guy

[HunterDave]

Give me a $200 coyote average and I am a full time trapper.... full time trapper seeking a 1500 coyote season!!! Probly!

You sound very bitter with all that doom and gloom, Marty. :(

These are exciting times so let me try to cheer you up.

If you decide to go hard trapping next year I'll buy your best coyote pelts for a GUARANTEED $120 average......CASH!!! :party0052:

[wolfcrazy]

You sound very bitter with all that doom and gloom, Marty. :(

These are exciting times so let me try to cheer you up.

If you decide to go hard trapping next year I'll buy your best coyote pelts for a GUARANTEED $120 average......CASH!!! :party0052:

Dave think the 118 ave offered had any to do with your fur handling?

[drake]

Oh wow....this got good.

“Boots”.....oh man, once I clued in I just about died.

I hope everyone does well this year. It’s great to see so much excitement for a wild fur product.

[HunterDave]

Dave think the 118 ave offered had any to do with your fur handling?

I'm just starting out so that might be it right there! I heard that they only graded from the back of the ears to the base of the tail so I just cut off the head and tail. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, I dunno. :scared0015:

I'll let you know once I get my grades from FHA. How bout dat?

Here's how it works.......The buyer grades your pelts one grade lower than they actually are and then offers less than market value for the grade that he assigned. I call it the old Dopple-Duping trick. :)

[drake]

I'm just starting out so that might be it right there! I heard that they only graded from the back of the ears to the base of the tail so I just cut off the head and tail. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, I dunno. :scared0015:

I'll let you know once I get my grades from FHA. How bout dat?

Here's how it works.......The buyer grades your pelts one grade lower than they actually are and then offers less than market value for the grade that he assigned. I call it the old Dopple-Duping trick. :)

Dave I mean this with all due respect. I’ve been in your fur shed and have seen the quality fur you produce....but.....aren’t you buying fur, or haven’t you bought fur in the past? Are you doing it to break even?

The market is what it is....people can choose to sell for an offered price or not. That’s the great part of a free market economy.

Some people are going to make money this year, some will lose money, and a bunch of guys will leave money on the table. It’s an exciting time to be in the coyote business

[HunterDave]

Dave I mean this with all due respect. I’ve been in your fur shed and have seen the quality fur you produce....but.....aren’t you buying fur, or haven’t you bought fur in the past? Are you doing it to break even?

The market is what it is....people can choose to sell for an offered price or not. That’s the great part of a free market economy.

Some people are going to make money this year, some will lose money, and a bunch of guys will leave money on the table. It’s an exciting time to be in the coyote business

Comparing buying put up fur to buying whole frozen shot dogs is like comparing apples to oranges. I get paid for the work that I do putting them up.

I don’t care what anyone else does with their fur. They can do whatever they want, it’s none of my business. In conversations with a few people both on and off the forum I have advised them to not give their pelts away for cheap though. Lots of info is exchanged via PM, even between Marty believe it or not......lol. :test:

Whatever my opinion, it’s ultimately up to them to make their own decisions based on what’s best for them.......I’m not going to try to convince them one way or the other. I also take their advice under consideration. I think that this time it looks like I made the right call but the fat auction lady hasn’t sung yet. :)

[coyote_man]

Im hoping to catch Marty in a good mood next week. If he isn't it will still be a nice visit with his lovely wife.My way of thinking is that we both need to make a decent living and not be overly greedy.

[Marty S]

Dave, I wish I had been more on the ball on your coyotes and had a look at them so I’d have an opinion on them. I really don’t know what they were, Howard graded them and is an exceptional grader. After grading if the trapper isn’t happy with he price we normally try to make something work but didn’t get that opportunity, generally as soon as the bottom is pulled out the average comes way up, in particular when the section 3 is pulled.

Ideally we would have looked at both bags. I have no idea how you split them, then you did bring in the wrong bag? Ideally we look at the full collection then an average is an average, not an average on a lot of hand picked goods.

Grading... many many trappers believe they are good at grading, they definitely pick out their favourites, however, often the trappers favourites aren’t the graders favourites. It takes instruction in order to learn to grade properly. Numerous buyers today have two grades, Good Ones, Bad Ones.

Nice. :rolleyes:

Say Kingrat, what did Bryce say?

[kingrat]

No idea who Bryce is or how to get ahold him and frankly dont care that much was. I was just curious and bored Marty thanks anyway.

[Fur Harvesters Auction]

https://www.idahotrappersassociation.com/upcoming-events.htm
boots is a regular at all western coyote/cat auctions for many decades A GREAT GUY

[Fur Harvesters Auction]

https://www.idahotrappersassociation.com/upcoming-events.html

[Marty S]

Bryce Kubly is a longtime employee of GFW and I believe became a partner after a number of years. He is overseeing GFW business in Canada.

Bryce’s number is +1 (815) 275-8201

Do note that GFW buys everything from weasels to bears at world market values. They do buy far more than coyotes. Like Kingrat said, they are the largest buyer of wild fur in the world. They have been buying our fur for a very long time, just the Canadian trappers never knew it.

It does kind of appear that certain folks in the industry harbour some animosity towards GFW. I can’t understand why?

As the largest buyer of our wild fur, GFW is obviously the hand that feeds us.

[Western Montana Fur Co.]

Boots is a fictional charectar. All above langauge fictional... science fiction... based totally on my personal speculation. Zero fact... is the fat man right???

Give Bryce a call and ask him if he could post his numbers for you. He’d be the best guy to ask. Im sure he’ll get right on it for you. Hes a very nice guy

Marty we never see you or your new gang at country auctions competing.

Regards, BOOTS

[kingrat]

hmmm he does exist.. now that's funny, love your first post. So what are you doing boots that could potentially wreck the coyote market or is Marty just being a negative Ned.

[Marty S]

Hi Mr Boots! That is your X-Men designation... have you ever watched X-Men?

Been meaning to call and chat for a while, just been busy. Talk to you soon!

Wow! How the plot thickens on this teeny little insignificant forum

[kingrat]

cheap entertainment

[Western Montana Fur Co.]

https://ibb.co/2PX69JVHi Mr Boots! That is your X-Men designation... have you ever watched X-Men?

Been meaning to call and chat for a while, just been busy. Talk to you soon!

Wow! How the plot thickens on this teeny little insignificant forum


Busy here buying coyotes and filling orders.

Regards,
George.... oops I mean Boots

160822

[Marty S]

Mind if we call you Georgie??? Boots just doesnt have a nice ring to it

Sounds like a lot of folks buying and filling orders these days, almost an epidemic