Disappointed in R.A.P.

[Carson13]

Recently, a friend of mine was out fishing on a trout lake in Alberta with a zero catch limit. There was ONLY ONE other group on the lake, my friend walked over to ask how they were doing and realized they had a fish in the box of the truck. They bragged about it and even identified they knew it was illegal!Having bad cell service on the lake, my friend messaged me, to call RAP about the poachers.

After speaking with the receptionist and a short wait for F&W to call me back, I was informed that the closest officer was 2 hours away but was en-route.

When the Conservation Officer showed up to the lake his lights were blasting. He headed straight to the Poachers and looked in the back of the truck where the illegal fish was kept. After seeing the group packing up and leaving, my friend thought justice was served.

The officer stopped by a short while later to break the news - a $200 Ticket and a seized fish ! Didn’t even force them off the lake and could have continued to fish, the officer says! - (BS IMO). Also, had a warning for my friend that they knew he called RAP, and to watch his back fishing the rest of the day. My friend asked what violation it would take for them to be escorted off the lake, the CO stated “10 bulltrout on the ice”. (Now I understand small communities and the local poachers most likely knowing the officer, but at what point is it time to lay a serious fine?) The Officer then explained he felt the ticket taught him the lesson he needed. My friend after the officer left, immediately packed up and headed home from a 3 day trip - on day 1. He was concerned the poachers may return looking for revenge.

F&W called me a couple days later to inform me they had caught the poachers. I expressed my concern about the low fine and they were brushed off!

A couple days ago my friend received a cheque from RAP, as is their process. We were thinking it would be a small percentage of the fine, but it was $400! Twice the amount of the initial fine! Not to mention the officers 2 hour drive to lay the fine.

A disappointing realization that it costs the taxpayer more to catch a poacher than to just stock another fish!

Where’s the logic in this?

Carson

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Lots of complaining

[58thecat]

You need a nap eh!

[Carson13]

My intention in posting this isn’t to complain or berate the CO or poacher, or anyone, only to point out the inequality between the crime, punishment, and reward, that we’re all on the hook for.

thanks!

[Smoky buck]

My intention in posting this isn’t to complain or berate the CO or poacher, or anyone, only to point out the inequality between the crime, punishment, and reward, that we’re all on the hook for.

thanks!

This has been an issue for a long time with fish & wildlife offenses in Canada

[JohninAB]

RAP rewards are not funded from income taxes but from a levy placed on hunting and fishing licenses that is used to fund the ACA. ACA then administers the RAP reward program from their funding.

The idea behind a fine, especially for retaining one fish, is not to bankrupt someone but hopefully deter further illegal acts ie poaching.

Why should the officer escort the guilty party off the ice? If you get stopped and ticketed for speeding, do they remove you from the road for the day?

As with most violation tickets, till your day in court or your voluntary payment, you are presumed innocent.

I think the RAP program functioned as it should in this case.

Oh and was it a CO or a Fish and Wildlife officer that ticketed the other party?

[Carson13]

Likely Fish and wildlife officer, sorry, my bad..

Guess this is why our governments are all in such debt!

Update: just replayed one of my messages, they definitely said Conservation Officer

[ghostguy6]

Look at the bright side, at least they got caught. I would say the majority of poachers are not caught.

I am not exactly sure how the reward values are calculated but from what I have experienced it has never been more than the total of the ticket(s). The only one I bothered to research came out to about 30% of the known violations, but then again I do not know exactly what the offenders were charged with.

Perhaps the poachers you reported received multiple fines for other offenses so the tickets were more than just a $200 fine?

[58thecat]

ok so your buddy informed you and you made the call....fish cops are spread thin so took some time to get there...fish cop went right to them and engaged...one offence and ticketed accordingly...your upset because you think it should have been more and I agree but justice was served...you don't loose your car for a rolling stop...fish cop talks to your buddy lets him know what went on...your buddy packs up as he is concerned...might get visitors...maybe a good call but thats all part of stepping up and stop criminals from taking...you get rewarded for your call in which is a good thing as it encourages people to get involved...split the reward with your buddy...you both did a good thing...everything is not perfect but it is better than nothing.

[krthegunslinger]

Fine should be at minimum enough to cover all costs associated to the particular offense. RAP reward, officers time , cost of running FWO truck down the road , RAP operators time etc. All costs. Cut, dried and bailed as my pops would say.

And to take your vehicle for a day or two when caught speeding. I’m all for that too. Speed kills. Plain and simple. Look up The stats for energy exerted on the body in a crash as speed increase over 100kmh. And for what to save minutes in the end.

[pikergolf]

Fine should be at minimum enough to cover all costs associated to the particular offense. RAP reward, officers time , cost of running FWO truck down the road , RAP operators time etc. All costs. Cut, dried and bailed as my pops would say.

And to take your vehicle for a day or two when caught speeding. I’m all for that too. Speed kills. Plain and simple. Look up The stats for energy exerted on the body in a crash as speed increase over 100kmh. And for what to save minutes in the end.

Plus a little to go into the wildlife kitty. We treat offenders like it means nothing.

[HuyFishin]

so whats the difference in Fish and wildlife vs a conservation officer?

I've called RAP before and two vehicles came and two guys in different uniforms.

[CNP]

RAP rewards are not funded from income taxes but from a levy placed on hunting and fishing licenses that is used to fund the ACA. ACA then administers the RAP reward program from their funding.

The idea behind a fine, especially for retaining one fish, is not to bankrupt someone but hopefully deter further illegal acts ie poaching.

Why should the officer escort the guilty party off the ice? If you get stopped and ticketed for speeding, do they remove you from the road for the day?

As with most violation tickets, till your day in court or your voluntary payment, you are presumed innocent.

I think the RAP program functioned as it should in this case.

Oh and was it a CO or a Fish and Wildlife officer that ticketed the other party?

Thanks John...…………………a breath of fresh air from the AO gulag

[CNP]

Recently, a friend of mine was out fishing on a trout lake in Alberta with a zero catch limit. There was ONLY ONE other group on the lake, my friend walked over to ask how they were doing and realized they had a fish in the box of the truck. They bragged about it and even identified they knew it was illegal!Having bad cell service on the lake, my friend messaged me, to call RAP about the poachers.

After speaking with the receptionist and a short wait for F&W to call me back, I was informed that the closest officer was 2 hours away but was en-route.

When the Conservation Officer showed up to the lake his lights were blasting. He headed straight to the Poachers and looked in the back of the truck where the illegal fish was kept. After seeing the group packing up and leaving, my friend thought justice was served.

The officer stopped by a short while later to break the news - a $200 Ticket and a seized fish ! Didn’t even force them off the lake and could have continued to fish, the officer says! - (BS IMO). Also, had a warning for my friend that they knew he called RAP, and to watch his back fishing the rest of the day. My friend asked what violation it would take for them to be escorted off the lake, the CO stated “10 bulltrout on the ice”. (Now I understand small communities and the local poachers most likely knowing the officer, but at what point is it time to lay a serious fine?) The Officer then explained he felt the ticket taught him the lesson he needed. My friend after the officer left, immediately packed up and headed home from a 3 day trip - on day 1. He was concerned the poachers may return looking for revenge.

F&W called me a couple days later to inform me they had caught the poachers. I expressed my concern about the low fine and they were brushed off!

A couple days ago my friend received a cheque from RAP, as is their process. We were thinking it would be a small percentage of the fine, but it was $400! Twice the amount of the initial fine! Not to mention the officers 2 hour drive to lay the fine.

A disappointing realization that it costs the taxpayer more to catch a poacher than to just stock another fish!

Where’s the logic in this?

Carson

I cannot fathom why you are disappointed. An officer despite being two hours away, responds to the call of one fish being unlawfully retained and executes his duty. Add in the officers salary, vehicle and other support towards the taxpayers bill. It's not about making money. I have no problem with the outcome.

[Talking moose]

You called them: they came: they fined poachers: you receive reward: your angry with this:

[Donkey Oatey]

so whats the difference in Fish and wildlife vs a conservation officer?

I've called RAP before and two vehicles came and two guys in different uniforms.

Fish & Wildlife Officer is just that, an officer that enforces fish and wildlife laws.

Conservation Officer is in Provincial Parks. The old Park Ranger job.

[mlee]

I fish a fairly secluded C&R lake quite often which happens to have a healthy population of large pike (30+" average) and walleye (24" average). A busy day on that lake might be 6-8 groups and this was a busy day. Anyway same situation....I did not make the call but one of our group did as this guy was gutting walleye (plural) on the lake. F&W showed up about 2 hours later....seized the fish made him pack up and head out. My friend was informed this guy was fined $500....and he received his $400 reward. I know this stuff happens on this lake a lot....I've never ever seen F&W out there.....and I hate being that guy but good fisheries are so few and far between in alberta. I personally think the fines are a bit low but it is what it is.

[TBark]

I hope your buddy gave you half?
But approching another party and peeking into their truck box, be careful.
And continuing to fish that day with you and them as the only 2 groups out, ballzy.

TBark

[Smoky buck]

Need to adopt the old African way of dealing with poachers and the problem will be solved :fighting0021:

People will probably still say the punishment is not harsh enough

[musak4ears]

I thank you and your buddy Carson13 for making this happen. Feels like we have little control over fines and such, but are in total control to make that call and send a message to others that what they are doing is not right.

I am curious if the fine/ticket is attached to their WIN card and will affect future purchases of licenses if it remains unpaid???

[fisher Gord]

because the ticket is issued by the justice department same as a speeding ticket. will surface when u buy license. u don't have to accept the reward.

[sns2]

You and your buddy did the right thing. Co did the right thing too, he enforced the law. Take your half of the money and buy new hooks. Simple.

[Bushleague]

Look at the bright side, at least they got caught. I would say the majority of poachers are not caught.

I am not exactly sure how the reward values are calculated but from what I have experienced it has never been more than the total of the ticket(s). The only one I bothered to research came out to about 30% of the known violations, but then again I do not know exactly what the offenders were charged with.

Perhaps the poachers you reported received multiple fines for other offenses so the tickets were more than just a $200 fine?

x2.

Last hunting season I caught a few hunters loading an untagged moose into their truck, not a "keeper" in the bunch. I took a picture, got the licence plate numbers, and called RAP. The CO explained to me that he had a lot of country to cover, was not in the area, and would likely not be showing up. I asked about the pictures and licence numbers, he half heartedly told me to call the office and give it to them. Through the grapevine I found a couple guys who know the hunters involved, the call was never followed up at all.

Very disappointing, because I stumbled upon what I would have thought was pretty much a worst case scenario for a poacher. I understand that the pictures would not necessarily have resulted in charges, but if the CO had at least contacted and questioned the individuals they might think twice before trying it again. To the best of anyone's knowledge, no attempt whatsoever was made on this front.

They sure do a good job of making sure nobody enjoys a beer or two while ice fishing though, so I guess that's something.:thinking-006:

[58thecat]

x2.

Last hunting season I caught a few hunters loading an untagged moose into their truck, not a "keeper" in the bunch. I took a picture, got the licence plate numbers, and called RAP. The CO explained to me that he had a lot of country to cover, was not in the area, and would likely not be showing up. I asked about the pictures and licence numbers, he half heartedly told me to call the office and give it to them. Through the grapevine I found a couple guys who know the hunters involved, the call was never followed up at all.

Very disappointing, because I stumbled upon what I would have thought was pretty much a worst case scenario for a poacher. I understand that the pictures would not necessarily have resulted in charges, but if the CO had at least contacted and questioned the individuals they might think twice before trying it again. To the best of anyone's knowledge, no attempt whatsoever was made on this front.

They sure do a good job of making sure nobody enjoys a beer or two while ice fishing though, so I guess that's something.:thinking-006:


Spread very thin and yup when they do show up ya better have all in order....if your doing something wrong and ya know it then don't be surprised when ya get busted....I bet there in box is full of jobs waiting to be followed up on....things take time....spoke to the fish cops last week on the ice and they mentioned even on a lake if it is busy then they just stick to one area u less they get pulled away on a call etc....undermanned occupation for the area to be covered but they are doing a good job.

[KBF]

I’m a poor fisherman as it is, never mind fishing a lake where there’s a zero keep limit. Is there any species of fish that can be kept in that lake? Why do they allow those lakes to be fished if there’s zero keep limits?

[dth_]

The real issue here is that they blew any resemblance of anonymity that RAP is supposed to have.