General Fishing Regs

[Denadii Cho]

I haven't fished in about ten years and I've just gotten my license to fish again. I am totally shocked to see how this government has tightened up the regs to the point where there is little point in even going out. You can't fish in this lake because of a zero limit. You can only take a pike which is more than two feet in length. There are far more 'You may nots than there are 'You mays" Sport fishing is for the birds. Catch and release is cruel. You cannot convince me that it is not painful and stressful to the fish caught in this way. I'm sixty years old. I've fished all of my life having caught the bug when I was only two. I've learned from my dad who was very strict about taking care of the animals and the wild areas. He always stressed safety, housekeeping and never never kill or catch something that you don't intend to EAT.
Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!

I think these laws are mostly, well.....deleted expletives.

[sheephunter]

You cannot convince me that it is not painful and stressful to the fish caught in this way.

Many people and groups agree with you. C&R fishing has been banned in many European countries.

[jusfloatin]

I cannot understand the reasoning of releasing a fish that you know will not survive.

What a waste.

[Fishfinder]

I haven't fished in about ten years and I've just gotten my license to fish again. I am totally shocked to see how this government has tightened up the regs to the point where there is little point in even going out. You can't fish in this lake because of a zero limit. You can only take a pike which is more than two feet in length. There are far more 'You may nots than there are 'You mays" Sport fishing is for the birds. Catch and release is cruel. You cannot convince me that it is not painful and stressful to the fish caught in this way. I'm sixty years old. I've fished all of my life having caught the bug when I was only two. I've learned from my dad who was very strict about taking care of the animals and the wild areas. He always stressed safety, housekeeping and never never kill or catch something that you don't intend to EAT.
Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!

I think these laws are mostly, well.....deleted expletives.

After first reading ur post my initial thoughts were -well, lake and river bodies change alot over ten years, as do the regs in accordance (I wanna believe), but yes- there are alot of bodies of water where the regs do not make sense to me. I am a mid thirty man who has only been fishing for 5 years and am quite bewildered as to the regs in some bodies of water so I can only imagine how you may feel. So many things come into play here I am sure. One thing I am sure of though is - U should b proud, ur pops taught u well. Happy fishin:)

[Lambo]

I'm sorry Mr. Cho, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. If there weren't limits and regulations on Alberta lakes there won't be fish left in the near future for my sons and I to enjoy catching. There's not many lakes in Alberta for the number of fishermen like there is in BC, Sask, Manitoba, Ontario. I fish for the sport of it and practise catch and release. I do keep the odd one for a shore lunch. I don't think that is wrong.

[Wulfespirit]

You'll find plenty of debate on that particular topic on this forum. You have hardcore C&R folk here who believe the limits are still too liberal and then the eaters here who'd appreciate being able to keep a fish or two for supper now and then.

The 'freezer fillers' are still around too but most can agree that this group can't really afford to exist in this province without crippling our fisheries.

Right now, I lean toward agreeing with you and feeling your pain. I think there ARE a number of lakes away from the province's major centers that could affrord more liberal keep limits but the people running the show are choosing to err fairly heavily on the side of caution.

There's no question that the days of 10 walleye and pike of any size are gone (and they definately should be - when people started learning how to fish, our fisheries starting hurting). But in productive lakes away from major centers, I'd be heavily in favor of trying limits like Calling Lake for a few years (1 walleye, 2 pike) and seeing what the impact would truly be.

[Denadii Cho]

I'm sorry Mr. Cho, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. If there weren't limits and regulations on Alberta lakes there won't be fish left in the near future for my sons and I to enjoy catching. There's not many lakes in Alberta for the number of fishermen like there is in BC, Sask, Manitoba, Ontario. I fish for the sport of it and practise catch and release. I do keep the odd one for a shore lunch. I don't think that is wrong.

Well I have my opinions on Catch and release but as I said, I won't bore you with that. My main bitch is the ridiculous limits these demigods impose.
Listen. If you're a true sportsman, if you're really concerned about the lakes and fish, or the wild lands at large, you will not misuse them. The others are so few in comparison that we that care can police them ourselves. Then if the fish cops can unwrap themselves from around their coffee pots and do something when we report somebody....

[Beazer]

I think that we could all agree that it's the 10% of the population that screws and abuses the system.

The one thing that I believe is "the" overfishing of spectacular spots.
How many times do you always go to the exact same spot, or troll the exact same weedline because you are almost guaranteed to nail one?
This overfishing depletes schools of fish or in the very least depletes the big ones unless C and R is in effect by the boater.

I love to nail big fish in spots where people rarely go. Makes a nice challenge.
But everyone including myself has been guilty of heading to for sure spots unfortunately over and over again.

[happy perch fisher]

I haven't fished in about ten years and I've just gotten my license to fish again. I am totally shocked to see how this government has tightened up the regs to the point where there is little point in even going out. You can't fish in this lake because of a zero limit. You can only take a pike which is more than two feet in length. There are far more 'You may nots than there are 'You mays" Sport fishing is for the birds. Catch and release is cruel. You cannot convince me that it is not painful and stressful to the fish caught in this way. I'm sixty years old. I've fished all of my life having caught the bug when I was only two. I've learned from my dad who was very strict about taking care of the animals and the wild areas. He always stressed safety, housekeeping and never never kill or catch something that you don't intend to EAT.
Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!

I think these laws are mostly, well.....deleted expletives.

Go to the store then its cheaper. If you can't enjoy fishing for sport of it then didn't bother going i really get sick of people like yourself bitching about how u can't keep anything anymore.

[Denadii Cho]

Go to the store then its cheaper. If you can't enjoy fishing for sport of it then didn't bother going i really get sick of people like yourself bitching about how u can't keep anything anymore.

You call it sport to traumatize a fish. Plant a hook in his mouth and jerk him out of the water, handle him with your hot hands and then throw him back? Hmmm Try swallowing a hook and have somebody jerk you out of your chair. Good sport hey? Lots of laughs.
Look, Happy I've always loved fishing, but I was raised to eat what I catch. I was not raised to be cruel and call it sport. Personally I don't give a crap whether the barbs are flattened out. Poke a hole in the fish and it hurts. Call it sport and its cruelty only. If you're not going to keep what you catch and eat it then leave them alone!

But my point of all this was not to jump on catch and release folks. My point was to say I want to fish for the meat of it. For the relaxation of it. Not for the legal bull---- of it. Or for poking holes in fish just for fun.

[hockeyfish]

i agree with you that the regs are pretty strict here....

but i'm pretty sure fish can't feel pain

[Lambo]

i agree with you that the regs are pretty strict here....

but i'm pretty sure fish can't feel pain

Not sure if I agree with fish not feeling pain. They have to have some sort of nerves for a survival mechanism.

Denadii Cho: if you caught what you needed to eat for the day, then do you go home (since you don't believe in sportfishing or catch and release)? That would be a waste of gas if you caught your limit right away.

[Fantastic]

I've been fishing since I was 6 years old, and I have only kept 2 or 3 fish to eat. I fish for the sport, I enjoy catching fish alot more than i do eating them.
I'm sure if you look at the statistics for fish who get caught, as long as they are handled well, kept out of the water for a limited time, and released properly, more than most will survive and be able to reproduce so future generations can fish. The exceptions being those who are hooked in the gills, which rarely happens (for me anyways).

Ensuring there are fish available for future generations is Alberta F&W's top concern as it should be. If all you enjoy about fishing is eating them after, head to your local superstore and buy them there.

[Wulfespirit]

There was a lengthy study done in Sweden or Finland or something a couple of years back that surmised that fish (at least in their mouths) don't feel pain like we do (good thing too because eating a whole perch or small walleye would sure make you want to diet). When they become hooked, they don't feel discomfort persay, more of a "somethings wrong" stress trigger mechanism.

In any case, there are those of us that enjoy both the catching and eating parts of fishing. The overall experience trumps filets on the supper table anyday but eating a well prepared catch is a pleasant experience in itself that comes with the added satisfaction of having harvested the ingredients yourself.. that IS what fishing has been about since the beginning of time.

It's pretty annoying when C&R anglers with entirely childish holier-than-thou attitudes spout off about people keeping fish to eat. If the fish are caught and kept legally - shut your pie holes and go flex in front of the mirror.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

i agree with you that the regs are pretty strict here....

MMMMHMMMMM , I think its due to poor management myself , but yet im wrong . :scared::scared: The government wants the '' Fishermen's input '' but then do the total oppisite . What the hell is the sense in calling for the public's thoughts and so on . This province is gonna run the fishing dead before its made better . Thats my honest opinion and I stand by that and will till the day im dead , and fishing in Saskatchewan , or Manitoba , or Ontario .

All the '' PROFESSIONALS " keep saying its due to fishing pressure . You cant tell me Other provinces aren't experiencing " fishing pressure " ? sounds like a BS explanation to me . I say fire all the idiots and start off new . Instead of hireing someone who knows the books , hire someone from experience . The intire topic makes me angry , as the helpless can only sit back and watch what were loseing .

[tonyflyfish]

who did you guys vote for?

[Wulfespirit]

who did you guys vote for?

You think the libs or ndp would've cured the provinces fishing issues? :sick:

[tonyflyfish]

do you think they would have screwed it up worse than the oil men?

[Wulfespirit]

do you think they would have screwed it up worse than the oil men?

No, I think it would be status quo. The only way the problems get addressed is if a true outdoorsman was appointed to the minister chair AND there was some money laying around to work with.

With oil/gas revenues tanking, don't expect anything grand from the goverment - no matter who's in power - for a long while.

[wildman]

Hey Cho
First, Alberta regs are nothing
You wanna see tight regs go fish in b.c.
Their regs book is the size of a bible!!!!
second, it's necessary due to heavy abuse
Sadly, sign of the times
Cheers, gw

[sheephunter]

You cant tell me Other provinces aren't experiencing " fishing pressure " ? sounds like a BS explanation to me .

You look at the number of lakes versus the number of anglers and our waters are indeed under some very heavy pressure when compared to other provinces.

[Wulfespirit]

You look at the number of lakes versus the number of anglers and our waters are indeed under some very heavy pressure when compared to other provinces.

No doubt about it - yet a big part of the problem is still mismanagement. Whether it's due to lack of funds or incompetance, there's a lot this province should be doing ESPECIALLY given the angler/lake ratio here.

My ideas - for whatever they're worth.

1) Where feasible, do something about winterkilling lakes and lakes whose dropping water levels are getting into that danger zone. I've yet to hear a really good arguement against this - especially since the fish populations are doomed in any case. Divert water. Plant an aerator. Do something.

2) Make some of the many lakes (particularly in the NE region of the province) more accessible to take some pressure off the rest. I know the people who hike/4X4/quad/snowmobile into alot of those waters would scream but it would certainly divert alot of pressure off the rest of the lakes.

3) Allow a conservative harvest of walleye on more lakes to - again - spread the pressure. Can anyone look me in the eye and tell me that lakes like Baptiste or Touchwood couldn't handle a 1 walleye limit for at least a month a year? If a lake truly can't handle that kind of limited pressure, then make the decision to close based on science, not a survey of 10 anglers after a hot August weekend.

4) Wake up and remember that perch have long been a popular sport fish here. Between winterkilling lakes and out of control hammerhandle and walleye populations on so many lakes, they don't stand a chance anymore. Help those populations grow and you'll see pressure ease up elsewhere.

5) Just like the province hired a bunch of 'sheriffs' to deal specifically with speeding, they need to hire a bunch of COs to deal specifically with native netting. If the fish are being wasted or not being used for sustenance, those nets should be burned and the offenders hit as hard as possible.

[jp123]

Wow, hard to believe that there is so much hostility in these forums. Too bad that some folks just cannot seem to be able to agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. To Mr. happyperchfisher; the evidence of your longwinded "opinions" in many a thread on this forum have not gone unoticed. Your are entitled to your own beliefs & opinions, just remeber that if you want your voice heard, everyone else should have a fair shake too. Regulations are SRD's best way to manage their overall plan. I remeber 30 Perch limits & fantastic Walleye fishing as a kid & a young man, with limits so high and people catching their limit even once every other week on the same lake over time it just runs out. If someone doesn't agree with the regulations, write a letter to the Minister, or better yet just don't spool up your reel. That's my two bits!

[sheephunter]

At the risk of being the target of some name calling here, I have to agree that C&R fishing is a hard practice to defend. Quite possibly fish don't feel pain but there is inherant mortality with C&R and fish are stressed by the practice. And to what end? The enjoyment of the angler. With hunting and catch and keep fishing we can make the arguement that we are providing food for ourselves and helping manage populations but with C&R fishing, the only way to rationalize it is that it's sport. I'm guessing shooting deer with rubber bullets for sport would go over real well with many. Don't get me wrong, I do alot of C&R fishing but it is a tough one to make a case for. Just look to Europe.

[happy perch fisher]

No doubt about it - yet a big part of the problem is still mismanagement. Whether it's due to lack of funds or incompetance, there's a lot this province should be doing ESPECIALLY given the angler/lake ratio here.

My ideas - for whatever they're worth.

1) Where feasible, do something about winterkilling lakes and lakes whose dropping water levels are getting into that danger zone. I've yet to hear a really good arguement against this - especially since the fish populations are doomed in any case. Divert water. Plant an aerator. Do something.

2) Make some of the many lakes (particularly in the NE region of the province) more accessible to take some pressure off the rest. I know the people who hike/4X4/quad/snowmobile into alot of those waters would scream but it would certainly divert alot of pressure off the rest of the lakes.

3) Allow a conservative harvest of walleye on more lakes to - again - spread the pressure. Can anyone look me in the eye and tell me that lakes like Baptiste or Touchwood couldn't handle a 1 walleye limit for at least a month a year? If a lake truly can't handle that kind of limited pressure, then make the decision to close based on science, not a survey of 10 anglers after a hot August weekend.

4) Wake up and remember that perch have long been a popular sport fish here. Between winterkilling lakes and out of control hammerhandle and walleye populations on so many lakes, they don't stand a chance anymore. Help those populations grow and you'll see pressure ease up elsewhere.

5) Just like the province hired a bunch of 'sheriffs' to deal specifically with speeding, they need to hire a bunch of COs to deal specifically with native netting. If the fish are being wasted or not being used for sustenance, those nets should be burned and the offenders hit as hard as possible.

1. i agree with u.
2. Most people won't drive that far and it would cost a ton to build roads into alot of those lakes.
3. Baptiste is a lake with increasing preasure every year. The size of the fish in baptiste has dropped dramtically over the years. Baptiste could probably be opened agian. But you would probably end up with 95 percent of the fish being under the legal size limit. Basically the same thing as south buck. Where almost every walleye is under 43 and almost none make it over 50. Touchwood could probably be opened for a month every year. But you would see a dramtic drop in the size of fish.
4.Overfishing played a way bigger role in the declines. People always remove the big spawner perch and the walleye always clean up the little ones. Perch lakes that are found out and posted are destined to be overfished and fast.
5.Yah i know it is total bs but what can you do through. There going to get away with it. Even if they take them to court there end up making excuse that its there right to destory the fisherys so they can make a few bucks.:rolleye2:

[Denadii Cho]

At the risk of being the target of some name calling here, I have to agree that C&R fishing is a hard practice to defend. Quite possibly fish don't feel pain but there is inherant mortality with C&R and fish are stressed by the practice. And to what end? The enjoyment of the angler. With hunting and catch and keep fishing we can make the arguement that we are providing food for ourselves and helping manage populations but with C&R fishing, the only way to rationalize it is that it's sport. I'm guessing shooting deer with rubber bullets for sport would go over real well with many. Don't get me wrong, I do alot of C&R fishing but it is a tough one to make a case for. Just look to Europe.

Sheephunter If you want to practice C&R I'm not going to criticize you or anyone else that does. My point here was simply that because of the laws of our fair province I'm forced to do something contrary to my beliefs and contrary to my family traditions over the last three hundred ninety years of living in this country. Yes My family has been in Canada that long. Before Canada was Canada. All bushrunners. And we never did destroy one single species.

[happy perch fisher]

Sheephunter If you want to practice C&R I'm not going to criticize you or anyone else that does. My point here was simply that because of the laws of our fair province I'm forced to do something contrary to my beliefs and contrary to my family traditions over the last three hundred ninety years of living in this country. Yes My family has been in Canada that long. Before Canada was Canada. All bushrunners. And we never did destroy one single species.


Yah you just push it to verge and u let 2 surivive right. Not like you follow the regs anyhow.:rolleye2:

[Wulfespirit]

1. i agree with u.
2. Most people won't drive that far and it would cost a ton to build roads into alot of those lakes.


Some won't, some will. Look how many people from Edmonton hit Shaw's Point every year. That's no farther than a lot of bush waters in the NE. I agree it's not cheap, but neither is the contribution of angling to the economy in this province every year. Let them throw a reasonable road and boat launch on one of these waters every year and it's contribution will be felt. If they can afford make-work projects like the road construction going on north of Spruce Grove right now, they can add a road a year elsewhere.

3. Baptiste is a lake with increasing preasure every year. The size of the fish in baptiste has dropped dramtically over the years. Baptiste could probably be opened agian. But you would probably end up with 95 percent of the fish being under the legal size limit. Basically the same thing as south buck. Where almost every walleye is under 43 and almost none make it over 50. Touchwood could probably be opened for a month every year. But you would see a dramtic drop in the size of fish.

I agree about the fish size on Baptiste. But it's getting swarmed with medium sized walleye now (and there STILL are some hawgs there too) whose growth rates will undoubtedly be horribly slow. Thin them out a reasonable amount and you'll give the perch there a chance to come back while letting some of the walleye get to a good size in a reasonable amount of time.

Touchwood was open to walleye harvesting for a long time but always managed to retain bigger fish. It's far enough away that its not going to get overrun.

4.Overfishing played a way bigger role in the declines. People always remove the big spawner perch and the walleye always clean up the little ones. Perch lakes that are found out and posted are destined to be overfished and fast.

Overfishing is a factor but the abundance of hammerhandles and walleye is also a big factor. Perch just don't have a hope in hell in alot of lakes now of ever making a come back because F&W wants people to catch small pike and walleye on every cast.

5.Yah i know it is total bs but what can you do through. There going to get away with it. Even if they take them to court there end up making excuse that its there right to destory the fisherys so they can make a few bucks.:rolleye2:

Yeah and its such a ridiculous political game too. I know that COs could be doing more in this regard but they don't want to start a 'war'. They do just enough on an annual basis to be seen but not as much as they could be. I have a feeling that if they ever truly wanted to crack down, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[DarkAisling]

At the risk of being the target of some name calling here, I have to agree that C&R fishing is a hard practice to defend. Quite possibly fish don't feel pain but there is inherant mortality with C&R and fish are stressed by the practice. And to what end? The enjoyment of the angler. With hunting and catch and keep fishing we can make the arguement that we are providing food for ourselves and helping manage populations but with C&R fishing, the only way to rationalize it is that it's sport. I'm guessing shooting deer with rubber bullets for sport would go over real well with many. Don't get me wrong, I do alot of C&R fishing but it is a tough one to make a case for. Just look to Europe.

You know, I couldn't really agree with you more. My father was a man who hunted and fished in my youth (only hunts now). He didn't hunt or fish for "sport" . . . he hunted and fished for meat. Sure, he enjoyed the peace and solitude of his endeavors, but his focus was always meat. While that may seem appalling to some, it made us pretty darn respectful of what wound up on our plates at the dinner table and of the natural world (I loath buying meet from the grocery store as a result). He's more selective now that my sister and I are grown and he isn't feeding us: he'll be out in the bush for two weeks and not come home with anything because he didn't find "the one."

I guess for me, c&r is a way to improve my skills (at the expense of the fish). The limits, combined with the better release skills I'll have, will certainly make me more selective and knowledgeable about what I do keep (when I can and if I choose too). I need to become a much better angler though, as at present an itty bitty pan trout looks like a keeper :o

[JohninAB]

Take a look to the east of us. In Saskatchewan, limits are being tightened up as well. We have 800 fishable lakes here with a population of over 3 million. Saskatchewan has what, over 100,000 lakes with a population of what, just over 1 million. Do the math and determine fishing pressure or if that doesn't suit you, go to Pigeon Lake and count the number of boats off the provincial boat launch fishing.

That being said, I will agree that we could have a much better fish stocking program here.

BBJ you are totally wrong in your assertions.

[DarkAisling]

Yah you just push it to verge and u let 2 surivive right. Not like you follow the regs anyhow.:rolleye2:

HPF . . . been thinking about this for a while . . . you don't seem very "happy" :lol:

[winged1]

I was not raised to be cruel and call it sport. Personally I don't give a crap whether the barbs are flattened out. Poke a hole in the fish and it hurts. Call it sport and its cruelty only. If you're not going to keep what you catch and eat it then leave them alone!

Total crap.

A retained and a released fish go through the same agony until one gets his head bonked and the other is released. Actually, the bonked fish typically is abused right from the getgo with trebles, barbs, floppin on the rocks, etc,etc. Ever catch a jack on a single barbless hook? I think not, you sound like a barbed trebler to me.

Look around at your youth population these days with all thier facial piercings. Think they should be bonked and filletted?

You very funny man

[sheephunter]

True, but the bonked fish was caught with the intent of providing food and helping manage populations. What is your arguement for causing stress and possible mortality to the C&R fish other than sport? Seems a cruel thing to do just to amuse yourself.

Just playing devil's advocate here but it's a question we may be faced with soon enough.

[winged1]

but the bonked fish was caught with the intent of providing food and helping manage populations.
yes, but C&R is caught with the intent of release. See the difference. I do have a problem with a person who fishes using retention methods on a C&R designation. There is a big difference.

I've fished the prairie provinces for 40 years and am witness to the destruction of mass retention and the unique opportunities of C&R. I'll fish C&R over retention for the simple fact that those designated waters consistently hold sport fish that would have died on a retainers hook, but have survived previous catches and will survive my catch. Don't get me wrong, things go astray occasionally, but with single barbless, their chances of survival are much higher.

On my last trip up to Tobin, four of use got to work trolling spoons. The others thought I was odd using a pinched single. By the end of the day and for the rest of the trip, we where all using singles, only because it was obvious.

[sheephunter]

yes, but C&R is caught with the intent of release. See the difference.

I do see the difference for sure and that's been my point all along but should we be allowed to stress and endanger a fish for nothing more than personal pleasure? Just being Devil's advocate here again but while fishing for food is an easy case to make, torturing fish for personal pleasure is a tough one to justify. I'd be interested to hear your justification.

Let's keep this simple, I'm not making a case for more catch and keep here. Some lakes require fish to be removed for management purposes and some lakes can sustain a harvest for people to take food home. Those are things even the most rabid anti can wrap their heads around. I'm not saying open more catch and keep, I'm just asking to hear your justification for the continuation of C&R fishing when it is known to cause stress and mortality to fish....

[winged1]

and of course I'm not saying that we can't retain.

In my experience, C&R designations have provided for the sustained release of fish that are native to the waters in regards to natural densities, which include both size and numbers.

again, in my experience, take fisheries have reduced the quality of fishing, typically by reduced size and numbers. Stocking aside, I've witnessed population collapses in take waters, but not in C&R waters. Of course one problem in Alberta is thier reactive regulations which typically have a population collapsing before C&R is invoked.

I can tell you this, in my experience, the best quality waters are either C&R, difficult to access, or recovering from tight regulation.

The resulting quality of fishing experience that comes from C&R, slot size, size limitation, speaks to the health of hooked fish.

OK, so what about torture. With the some thirty pickeral I hooked this year, here's what happens. Upon hooking the fish pulls and shakes his head. No surprise. It's not until he see's the boat that the fight really heats up. His fear of the boat far outways his concern for the hook. He's up to the boat, maybe a measurement, but hook out with a simple twist and off he goes. Does it hurt, will he mend, will he bite agiain for another to enjoy. I'm confident. If I wasn't, I wouldn't fish.

Personally, I can't see the arguement that 'he's going to die, so the pain is irrelevant'. I honestly believe that C&R has brought many to a whole new level of appreciation for thier quarry.

[sheephunter]

LOL...all valid points but it does little to argue that C&R has a place in fishing. You just need to look across the Atlantic to find a number of countries that have banned C&R fising for the very reasons I outlined.

No fishing at all would achieve all of things that you've outlined that C&R did plus there would be no torture of fish.

[winged1]

closures would give the same results, but why would we accept that? Unless like much of Europe, the private land owners have gained further control. In Canada we have a viable seal industry, rope calfs, and break wild horses. We also have a great C&R fishery where many can catch a fish (skill dependent), not just the one person who kills it.

With that being said, I don't believe that the fishing shows on the idiot box do justice to considerate C&R fishers.

[sheephunter]

Hopefully anglers wouldn't accept it but that still doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Keeping a viable catch and keep fishery is just as important to the future of C&R as working ranches are to rodeo. This is not a private versus public issue in Europe either.....it's an animal welfare issue that anglers lost. Keep screaming about catch and keep fishing and don't be surprised if C&R is the first casualty. I say God bless those fish bonkers.

[Denadii Cho]

Not sure if I agree with fish not feeling pain. They have to have some sort of nerves for a survival mechanism.

Denadii Cho: if you caught what you needed to eat for the day, then do you go home (since you don't believe in sportfishing or catch and release)? That would be a waste of gas if you caught your limit right away.

Do I go home when I catch my limit? Hell no! As I said I'm out for the relaxation too. I love to kick back in my canoe and read a book too. Or swim. I totally love swimming. Just an old kid here. grin But yes. When I get what I need or the limit whichever comes first I stop fishing.

[Denadii Cho]

Hey Cho
First, Alberta regs are nothing
You wanna see tight regs go fish in b.c.
Their regs book is the size of a bible!!!!
second, it's necessary due to heavy abuse
Sadly, sign of the times
Cheers, gw

Wal.. I have to say that abuse is there no matter what generation is talked about. I was raised in the late forties and fifties and I saw folks using a net illegally. More than once. Well it was illegal for whites not our red brothers. So I guess the whites were guilty of depleting the fish. LOL Our red brothers were not you know. I've seen folks snagging, snaring, and trapping fish. When? All my life. Both as a boy and as a man, the numbers are so low. I still think the greatest pressure on the fish stocks come from the sheer numbers of folks heading for the best spots as has been said here. Correct me if I'm wrong here. The best fishing is still far from the cities? In the way back bush areas the fishing is just fine.
And I think I'll stay out of BC for fishing LOL I hate being lawed at all the time. Not that I'm an anarchist mind you. Just love my freedom.:D

[Denadii Cho]

yes, but C&R is caught with the intent of release. See the difference. I do have a problem with a person who fishes using retention methods on a C&R designation. There is a big difference.

I've fished the prairie provinces for 40 years and am witness to the destruction of mass retention and the unique opportunities of C&R. I'll fish C&R over retention for the simple fact that those designated waters consistently hold sport fish that would have died on a retainers hook, but have survived previous catches and will survive my catch. Don't get me wrong, things go astray occasionally, but with single barbless, their chances of survival are much higher.

On my last trip up to Tobin, four of use got to work trolling spoons. The others thought I was odd using a pinched single. By the end of the day and for the rest of the trip, we where all using singles, only because it was obvious.

Again Not to knock your beliefs, but, wasn't that fish free to start with? You had to hook it to give it what it already had?
Now you're a funny man. :innocent:

[RandyBoBandy]

To those of you that "think" Europe is not CNR, think twice and state the countries. My SIL has been living with me for the past 2 yrs. He is from England. 100% CNR, UNLESS you PAY to fish and keep. He's been fishing all his life throughout Europe. He has never eaten a fish and he won't touch cooked fish with a 10 ft pole. However, he fishes almost everyday. Anglers in some parts of Europe even take along medical supplies to treat fish that look sick with cysts etc. They are very educated on what the species should look like. We've been fishing the NSR the past 1.5 yrs and I've witnessed that dude totally recsistate(sp) a goldeye that seem to want to die in about 1 second! I'm in total agreement with 100% CNR for Alberta just for the mere numbers of fisherman vs lakes/streams/rivers. If we as sportsman can't regulate ourselves, the misinformed government will do it for us! :wave:

[Denadii Cho]

LOL...all valid points but it does little to argue that C&R has a place in fishing. You just need to look across the Atlantic to find a number of countries that have banned C&R fising for the very reasons I outlined.

No fishing at all would achieve all of things that you've outlined that C&R did plus there would be no torture of fish.

Yikes!! Sheephunter. Don't even whisper about No Fishing laws. The idiots in the Ivory Tower will make it so. :(

[Denadii Cho]

To those of you that "think" Europe is not CNR, think twice and state the countries. My SIL has been living with me for the past 2 yrs. He is from England. 100% CNR, UNLESS you PAY to fish and keep. He's been fishing all his life throughout Europe. He has never eaten a fish and he won't touch cooked fish with a 10 ft pole. However, he fishes almost everyday. Anglers in some parts of Europe even take along medical supplies to treat fish that look sick with cysts etc. They are very educated on what the species should look like. We've been fishing the NSR the past 1.5 yrs and I've witnessed that dude totally recsistate(sp) a goldeye that seem to want to die in about 1 second! I'm in total agreement with 100% CNR for Alberta just for the mere numbers of fisherman vs lakes/streams/rivers. If we as sportsman can't regulate ourselves, the misinformed government will do it for us! :wave:

Well I definitely agree with your last statement, although I totally disagree with C&R only. As it is we have some semblance of equal rights for C&R and Catch and Keep. I think both can be accommodated fairly

[Doc]

I haven't fished in about ten years and I've just gotten my license to fish again. I am totally shocked to see how this government has tightened up the regs to the point where there is little point in even going out. You can't fish in this lake because of a zero limit. You can only take a pike which is more than two feet in length. There are far more 'You may nots than there are 'You mays" Sport fishing is for the birds. Catch and release is cruel. You cannot convince me that it is not painful and stressful to the fish caught in this way. I'm sixty years old. I've fished all of my life having caught the bug when I was only two. I've learned from my dad who was very strict about taking care of the animals and the wild areas. He always stressed safety, housekeeping and never never kill or catch something that you don't intend to EAT.
Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!

I think these laws are mostly, well.....deleted expletives.

I find it rather amusing that you are complaining about not being able to catch a fish because of the reactive management our fisheries are under. After all, it was your generation of catch and eat everything you hook that put us in this state to begin with. I'm not saying you or your father are to directly to blame, but if your generation had practiced a little C&R, our fisheries today wouldn't be collapsed and under a reactive management. Of course there are some here complaining about not being able to keep more from the lakes that can handle more pressure. Great, so let's forget about proactive management of our fisheries, let these fisheries collapse as well so there won't be any fish left for our kids and our grand-kids.

As far as Walleye lakes close to major centers, you can pretty much forget about the way it used to be, it will never (ever) be like the old days again. The fisheries closer to major centers may go the way of the draw like Pigeon if you're lucky, otherwise they'll always be C&R, there is just way to much pressure. To keep the lakes that are doing well from collapsing, the regs will continue to have low limits and size regulations (and you should be happy about it, at least they're being proactive about it and not trying to fix it once it's already broken like so many others).

As far as C&R, the only difference between keeping and releasing is that you are taking the life of the fish and I am not. If they do feel pain (I don't believe they do and there is no need to convince you because I've convinced myself and that's all that matters) then you are causing the same amount of pain. I fish for my own selfish needs (fun) and you fish for your own selfish needs (food). Since these fish are not a necessity (after all you gone without a caught fish for 10yrs and you can easily buy fish at Safeway) then the fish on your plate is strictly selfish. For those that believe C&R has high mortality, check the stats on C&R with single barbless hooks. Much, much lower. Bait and trebles are the highest cause of mortality in released fish of which I use neither.

http://www.nativefishsociety.org/documents/BarbedandBarblessHooksLitReview408.pdf

http://books.google.ca/books?id=10gTAebyHCYC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=mortality+fish+single+barbless+hooks&source=bl&ots=m9yXIZ3VGV&sig=yOP3KKxPI_nGiMVPihhzfanAX58&hl=en&ei=J6eYSo2mG4fmM6nPoJEH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=mortality%20fish%20single%20barbless%20hooks&f=false

http://www.acuteangling.com/Reference/C&RMortality.html

Cheers,
Doc

[Wulfespirit]

I find it rather amusing that you are complaining about not being able to catch a fish because of the reactive management our fisheries are under. After all, it was your generation of catch and eat everything you hook that put us in this state to begin with. I'm not saying you or your father are to directly to blame, but if your generation had practiced a little C&R, our fisheries today wouldn't be collapsed and under a reactive management. Of course there are some here complaining about not being able to keep more from the lakes that can handle more pressure. Great, so let's forget about proactive management of our fisheries, let these fisheries collapse as well so there won't be any fish left for our kids and our grand-kids.

How can you blame that generation for having a great way to go out and get some rec-time in while still feeding the family? Pretty ignorant of you to shift the blame to the people who were out fishing and obeying the rules. I don't think many of that generation were biologists that studied fish populations in Alberta waters. They didn't know they were hurting the fisheries. The government said all was good so they trusted those who were supposed to be competant enough to manage the limits.

As far as Walleye lakes close to major centers, you can pretty much forget about the way it used to be, it will never (ever) be like the old days again. The fisheries closer to major centers may go the way of the draw like Pigeon if you're lucky, otherwise they'll always be C&R, there is just way to much pressure. To keep the lakes that are doing well from collapsing, the regs will continue to have low limits and size regulations (and you should be happy about it, at least they're being proactive about it and not trying to fix it once it's already broken like so many others).

You're right, it won't, it shouldn't, and that's fine. The lake wouldn't even make it a full season. Lakes have to be regulated individually. I don't see anyone arguing against that so your point doesn't really apply to this thread. Who exactly is asking for lakes like Pigeon to go back to 10 walleye of any size?

As far as C&R, the only difference between keeping and releasing is that you are taking the life of the fish and I am not. If they do feel pain (I don't believe they do and there is no need to convince you because I've convinced myself and that's all that matters) then you are causing the same amount of pain. I fish for my own selfish needs (fun) and you fish for your own selfish needs (food). Since these fish are not a necessity (after all you gone without a caught fish for 10yrs and you can easily buy fish at Safeway) then the fish on your plate is strictly selfish. For those that believe C&R has high mortality, check the stats on C&R with single barbless hooks. Much, much lower. Bait and trebles are the highest cause of mortality in released fish of which I use neither.

Congratulations on your righteousness. As I said earlier - go flex in front of the mirror and admire yourself. When you're done, realize that your fun is even less a necessity than someone elses food and despite any statistics you reference you're still killing fish JUST for fun.

Cheers.

[sheephunter]

To those of you that "think" Europe is not CNR, think twice and state the countries. :


Switzerland, Germany and Norway that I "know" of. There could be more.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Take a look to the east of us. In Saskatchewan, limits are being tightened up as well. We have 800 fishable lakes here with a population of over 3 million. Saskatchewan has what, over 100,000 lakes with a population of what, just over 1 million. Do the math and determine fishing pressure or if that doesn't suit you, go to Pigeon Lake and count the number of boats off the provincial boat launch fishing.

That being said, I will agree that we could have a much better fish stocking program here.

BBJ you are totally wrong in your assertions.

Your right , The number of lakes to Alberta compared to other provinces is a huge difference. But better management , and use of the money that comes from 3 million fishing licenses , OK not quite 3 million but you get the idea.

They could be using that money to more stocking of lakes , hiring more fish & wildlife officers and such. But no lets make cuts. Yes the government is in a tough place with all the royalties and all that there's cuts everywhere. But us as fishermen hunters , outdoorsmen , they should be using these funds more responsibly in the way they spend.

But I do give credit when its do , They'Ve done not so bad with what we have. Best thing for this entire province would be a fishing ban catch & release only for 10 to 15 years. Even 5 years would improve our fishery greatly , but we know it wont happen. Keep the stocked lakes for those who want to take home a few fish for supper. But until the law comes down on poachers , we will be stuck with what we have, all we can do is report what we see.

[bobbypetrolia]

BBJ, you seriously think poachers are the reason the fishing in Alberta is the way it is? Wrong. Its the fishermen that are obeying the rules set out by the Alberta Government. For example; It says I can keep 6 fish out of Lake X in the regs? I'm keeping 6 fish then!! And they (fishermen) have the right to do so. Because it says so in the regs. Until the regs change and the provincial fishery is managed properly, it will continue to decline. I honestly don't believe there is one lake in Alberta that you can drive to that isn't in jeopardy (unless its a stocked rainbow pond) of being over fished.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

BBJ, you seriously think poachers are the reason the fishing in Alberta is the way it is? Wrong. Its the fishermen that are obeying the rules set out by the Alberta Government. For example; It says I can keep 6 fish out of Lake X in the regs? I'm keeping 6 fish then!! And they (fishermen) have the right to do so. Because it says so in the regs. Until the regs change and the provincial fishery is managed properly, it will continue to decline. I honestly don't believe there is one lake in Alberta that you can drive to that isn't in jeopardy (unless its a stocked rainbow pond) of being over fished.

I dont think there the lone reason for the problems but they defenetly add to it.And the rest is what I said in my previous post.

[bobbypetrolia]

Believe me, I read the rest of your post as well. You seriously think stocking and hiring more F&W is the answer? Yeah. Lets dump a few more stocked 'bows into a slough so everyone can catch one every second cast and take a few home. The extra F&W you would like to see hired should improve the fishery too. Don't get me wrong....these things can help, eventually.....but you gotta start thinking grass roots here.

[RedHeadedFisherman]

search the I-net..
(topic) Do Fish Feel Pain? The science behind whether Fish Feel Pain

1.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_fish_feel_pain
(excerpt ) They can react to pain, but do not actually feel any discomfort, and simply react to something touching them, much like an ordinary person.


2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8183547.stm
(excerpt ) Plenty would assume so, but anglers tend to believe that if done competently, their sport doesn't stress a fish.

3.http://saltfishing.about.com/cs
(excerpt ) When any fish eats another fish, fins and holes from fins are a necessary part of life. So, as I see it, a fishhook is in the same category. It is no more than another hole that does not bother a fish, and that heals over quickly/envconservation/a/aa030615b.htm

4.http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html?oneclick=true
(excerpt )

5. http://www.slate.com/id/2219276/
(excerpt )

I neather belive, nor disbelive fish feel pain. i do however know from personal exp,. that i have caught the same fish( a torn fin gave him awway) over within a hour piuoed,and he seemed none the worse for wear.
i do try to get the BARBLESS hook out as fast and gently as i can.

[Doc]

How can you blame that generation for having a great way to go out and get some rec-time in while still feeding the family? Pretty ignorant of you to shift the blame to the people who were out fishing and obeying the rules. I don't think many of that generation were biologists that studied fish populations in Alberta waters. They didn't know they were hurting the fisheries. The government said all was good so they trusted those who were supposed to be competant enough to manage the limits.

Obeying the rules? Give your head a shake, I grew up fishing this province and doing so showed me just how little the last generation cared about Alberta's fisheries. Poaching was the norm, eat everything you catch, throw the Jack's on the bank, toss the Bull's in the bush, I seen it with my own two eyes. For the folks that strictly obeyed the regs good for you, but be honest with yourself, greed was the word of the day not that long ago. And of course, let's blame the Government. Let's not take any responsibility for our actions because the Gov't says it was ok. We didn't know any better:innocent:. What a load of S#$T! While most Albertans were still raping the Walleye fisheries, there were other Albertans working on getting changes to our east slope cutthroat streams (which are in pretty good shape right now I might add). These were individuals who cared enough about what they were seeing at that time to want to make a change and not wait for the Gov't to say that there is a problem.



You're right, it won't, it shouldn't, and that's fine. The lake wouldn't even make it a full season. Lakes have to be regulated individually. I don't see anyone arguing against that so your point doesn't really apply to this thread. Who exactly is asking for lakes like Pigeon to go back to 10 walleye of any size?

Actually it does apply. And it was directed to the original poster for his quote. "Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!"



Congratulations on your righteousness. As I said earlier - go flex in front of the mirror and admire yourself. When you're done, realize that your fun is even less a necessity than someone elses food and despite any statistics you reference you're still killing fish JUST for fun.

Cheers.

Necessity? Food? We're talking fishing here right? Don't even try to play that hand. You keeping fish to take home doesn't make you righteous. You obviously enjoy the sport of catching the fish the same as C&R'ers or you wouldn't do it. All you're doing making an excuse for it so you feel better about it. Now move away from the mirror, it's my turn.

[winged1]

In the end, I agree that the destruction and heavy regulations of our waters is distastful. But that's where we're at. We both enjoy our fishing. If you want to eat fish, stop by your local reserve and aquire what you need for table fair.

[AxeMan]

If you want to eat fish, stop by your local reserve and aquire what you need for table fair.

I hope you are just kidding about that. :confused:

[Wulfespirit]

Obeying the rules? Give your head a shake, I grew up fishing this province and doing so showed me just how little the last generation cared about Alberta's fisheries. Poaching was the norm, eat everything you catch, throw the Jack's on the bank, toss the Bull's in the bush, I seen it with my own two eyes. For the folks that strictly obeyed the regs good for you, but be honest with yourself, greed was the word of the day not that long ago. And of course, let's blame the Government. Let's not take any responsibility for our actions because the Gov't says it was ok. We didn't know any better:innocent:. What a load of S#$T! While most Albertans were still raping the Walleye fisheries, there were other Albertans working on getting changes to our east slope cutthroat streams (which are in pretty good shape right now I might add). These were individuals who cared enough about what they were seeing at that time to want to make a change and not wait for the Gov't to say that there is a problem.

A poacher is a poacher is a poacher. I'm not defending poachers and I'm not sure who here is. When you could keep 10 pike, 10 walleye, and 30 perch, you had to be a glutton if you were going to poach. If you wanted to triple the penaltys for behaviour like that right now, I'm on side.

I'm defending the people who fished within the law and assumed that the people making the rules about our lakes were smart enough to do their jobs and - if they weren't - at least smart enough to fix the problems before lakes went bust. Unfortunately, the people running the show obviously weren't qualified to be doing so but until some lakes started collapsing, there was no way to know.


Actually it does apply. And it was directed to the original poster for his quote. "Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!"

Yes - he said 'a fish'. Singular. He didn't say they came in and told him he couldn't fill his freezer. He didn't say the came in and told him he couldn't take home the silly limits of the past.


Necessity? Food? We're talking fishing here right? Don't even try to play that hand. You keeping fish to take home doesn't make you righteous. You obviously enjoy the sport of catching the fish the same as C&R'ers or you wouldn't do it. All you're doing making an excuse for it so you feel better about it. Now move away from the mirror, it's my turn.

Yes. Fish. Food. It is a food last time I checked.

I didn't claim righteousness. I responded to your claim of righteousness. You are not righteous and have no basis to behave that way.

I do enjoy the sport of catching fish and if the laws were changed to do away with C&R fishing, I would argue to overturn those laws so that guys like you can still participate in the sport just like I'm now arguing against the self-righteous guys who proudly proclaim they don't keep fish and somehow blame the guy taking a couple fish home for supper a couple times a year for the world's problems.

I'm one of the latter and I'm not going to sit here and stay quiet when a guy who seemingly doesn't understand that a controlled harvest on healthy populations of fish isn't a bad thing tosses insults at those who do - especially when he harvests fish himself by way of C&R mortality .. not to take to the dinner table, but just for recreation.

Lakes need to be managed to allow both types of anglers to exist. Period. End of story. And I'll make you a deal.. if you stop proclaiming superiority over people that eat some of their catch, I won't complain about your brand of angling either and we'll both be free to enjoy our time outdoors in the way we like.

[Denadii Cho]

Obeying the rules? Give your head a shake, I grew up fishing this province and doing so showed me just how little the last generation cared about Alberta's fisheries. Poaching was the norm, eat everything you catch, throw the Jack's on the bank, toss the Bull's in the bush, I seen it with my own two eyes. For the folks that strictly obeyed the regs good for you, but be honest with yourself, greed was the word of the day not that long ago. And of course, let's blame the Government. Let's not take any responsibility for our actions because the Gov't says it was ok. We didn't know any better:innocent:. What a load of S#$T! While most Albertans were still raping the Walleye fisheries, there were other Albertans working on getting changes to our east slope cutthroat streams (which are in pretty good shape right now I might add). These were individuals who cared enough about what they were seeing at that time to want to make a change and not wait for the Gov't to say that there is a problem.





Actually it does apply. And it was directed to the original poster for his quote. "Now these schoolboys come in and tell me I can't catch a fish in the lake near me to eat it?!"





Necessity? Food? We're talking fishing here right? Don't even try to play that hand. You keeping fish to take home doesn't make you righteous. You obviously enjoy the sport of catching the fish the same as C&R'ers or you wouldn't do it. All you're doing making an excuse for it so you feel better about it. Now move away from the mirror, it's my turn.

Poaching was the norm, eat everything you catch, throw the Jack's on the bank, toss the Bull's in the bush, I seen it with my own two eyes. For the folks that strictly obeyed the regs good for you, but be honest with yourself, greed was the word of the day not that long ago.


Yeah I've seen my share of this too. I've also seen folks getting the crap kicked out of them for just that thing. By the same generation. A real woodsman knows that only a fool will waste resources.

but be honest with yourself, greed was the word of the day not that long ago. :rolleye2: Good god man!! Are you saying that greed is done away with today?! If you think folks were greedy forty years ago, look around you. People kill for a pair of shoes! Few actually work together. Look at a person wrong and you get flamed. Take a parking spot someone wanted and they curse you, and you didn't even know they wanted it. and on and on ad nauseum

In some of the cases where I've seen folks taking far beyond their limits, the police were often called but they were not willing to leave their donut shops
.

People are no different today than they ever were. Folks don't like to do anything if it makes them any less comfortable.

[Denadii Cho]

The truth of it is though. If you prefer C&R or C&K its ok. Just take care of our resources and our land. Right?

The whole point of my rant in the first place was not to start a ****ing contest. It was simply that I'm the type who does not take to being told what to do and how to do it. I believe in 'loving your neighbor' and I don't believe its necessary to have everything 'Lawed' into oblivion. Just being thoughtful of what we have and of others is enough to keep things good. Laws are made for idiots who think the world owes them.

[hockeyfish]

Not sure if I agree with fish not feeling pain. They have to have some sort of nerves for a survival mechanism.

Denadii Cho: if you caught what you needed to eat for the day, then do you go home (since you don't believe in sportfishing or catch and release)? That would be a waste of gas if you caught your limit right away.


well, its obvious that they react to pressure, but havn't you noticed that sometimes they don't even know that they have a hook in their mouth!..just because they have nerves for a survival mechanism, it doesn't mean they FEEL pain lol!

next time you bring a fish to the bank, give him some slack, and watch him swim. it will look like he doesn't even know he is hooked

[hockeyfish]

Hey Cho
First, Alberta regs are nothing
You wanna see tight regs go fish in b.c.
Their regs book is the size of a bible!!!!
second, it's necessary due to heavy abuse
Sadly, sign of the times
Cheers, gw


dude, BC regs are alot more generous in my opinion

who cares about europe

europeans are wimps

[Denadii Cho]

dude, BC regs are alot more generous in my opinion

who cares about europe

europeans are wimps

Never been to Yourope :D:D Never going either. I like this side of the pond.

[sheephunter]

dude, BC regs are alot more generous in my opinion

who cares about europe

europeans are wimps

Good idea to keep an eye on where the antis are winning battles...you know the war is waging here as well. Being informed in the start of a good defence.

[Denadii Cho]

Just wondering here....Have any of you hunters ever tried "Shoot and release"? LOLOL

I just had to throw that in.

[huntsfurfish]

Yup - Camera:tongue2::lol:

[Denadii Cho]

Yup - Camera:tongue2::lol:


Grin I just wanted one last poke at catch and release. No offence intended. LOL
Though obviously you were not offended. Hugs on ya

[genoel]

Here's my two cents worth. I am approaching 50 years of age and have been fishing my entire life. I release most fish that I catch but do keep a few walleye now and then, because really, what tastes better than pan fried walleye? Anyone who has fished here for any length of time must truly appreciate the remarkable recovery that many of our lakes have made since the implimentation of the C&R regs as well as the size limits and reduced possession limits were imposed. If we were able to decimate our fisheries to the extent that we did twenty years ago, with the equipment and population we had then, imagine what would happen if we were to open it up now! There are still many lakes where you are able to catch and keep a few fish if they are of legal length so that option is available to anyone who wants it.