FHA Auction Predictions?

[HunterDave]

What’s everyone’s outlook for the auction?

On one hand COVID has made a mess of things with the requirement for an online auction and concerns over shipping, etc. On the other hand, buyers might be concerned that there may not be another auction after this one and this will be their only chance to buy fur.

Personally, I’m cautiously optimistic. I think that the demand is still strong for coyotes but I have no idea what the online auction looks like.

So, are you an optimist, a pessimist or somewhere in between.

[wolfcrazy]

I think some of the buyers used to NAFA grading might be put off by not being able to physically seeing the fur. I just hope that FHA set the reserve bid at a acceptable value. From what I hear there is still demand for coyotes and some other fur in China.

[TrapperMike]

Those buyers that are used to the Nafa grading system should have no problems since that is the system that is being used at the auction. As for worries of no future auctions, FAH is already in the process of setting up future auctions. Just have to work around courvid-19 situation. As for demand, buyers are showing that there is a need for our furs and they want more auctions. FAH said they were quite surprised that they have more buyers at this auction than they had planned for. Lots of last minute buyers to the sale.

[Marty S]

Many watchers if nothing else.

Hopefully lotsa bidders on the last day.

...if nothing else.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Just a thought with Canada Goose sewing protective equipment for Covid-19, not lot of need for our coyotes. Nobody going out in cold now needing a good parka. Much like our Alberta oil industry, being hammered from many directions. I will just be happy if fur sells almost at any price.

[tikka250]

Fur is a luxury item and when the whole planet is in lockdown there is not a lot of people buying luxury items. My guess is that prices will be way down.

[goose slayer10]

I can't imagine current circumstances will help the market. But don't be short sighted either, manufactures still need fur. If they were buying fur now to sell on garments tomorrow they would not be operating very effectively. Things will get back to normal eventually and people will buy fur again. I would think companies will be making fur garments to sell next year and they will need fur for this.

Just my thoughts.

[Saskfly16]

Look at the market boys. Coon is going to cost the same as a barrel of oil!!


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[HunterDave]

Well, the auction has ended and I haven’t heard any doom and gloom so I’m going to take that as a positive. :)

[Saskfly16]

Waiting for the prices to be posted. Honestly if they sold anything at a decent price and clearance in this market my hat goes off to them.


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[Marty S]

It sounded like the cross fox and arctic fox did ok. The shearable beaver very well too. You beaver guys better get busy chopping ice before the beaver bellies turn red.

One very reliable source said the values were too high and the very willing coyote buying community did not bid. Cheaper goods like semi coyotes, even some easterns found homes. Sounded like one lot of ten skins brought $165 UDS, otherwise little interest in the first half of the coyotes, where all the good ones fall. Probly not the best time to push the market when we could likely be on the cusp of a potential economic meltdown.

A day ago supposedly no interest in lynx, red fox, marten, fisher.

I guess we’ll wait for the report. Maybe they’ll spend a few days on the phone selling goods PT?

In the meantime, warm up them jet boats and polish up your .22 Magnums! Hopefully there’ll be a full fledged auction very soon and goods sold openly to see what willing bidders are willing to pay, and try to rebuild our industry, apart from the coyotes. The Hydroxychloroquine news sounds very good and could help our stock markets as well as the new oil discussions.

[kingrat]

Yes heard they held the line with the better coyotes, what the price differences were or what they wanted? Well that's top secret.

[Marty S]

Most articles pretty tough right now

[wolfcrazy]

April 3, 2020

Online Auction Update

Fur Harvesters online auction concluded at 17:00 Eastern Standard Time, April 2nd, 2020. This was our first attempt at hosting an online auction and it was put together in a very short time by a couple of very competent staff here at FHA. These are certainly unprecedented times which called for unprecedented action in order to facilitate a way to get some goods sold for our shippers and supply product to the manufacturers.

We valued all goods at levels we felt were realistic and thresholds were established for each species to insure all goods sold were within reason of our advertised values.
Going into this it was apparent that a strong clearance on all species would not likely happen. As many wild fur articles are so varied that to expect buyers to take big buying positions and bid on large volumes of goods sight unseen was not very realistic. Also several articles and in some cases sections within individual articles are very dependent on the buying power of Italy and Korea. Both these countries have been and continue to be hit very hard by the COVID-19 virus. The majority of the buying of TOP section western coyotes has been dominated by the Italians for many years as is the case with sables in Korea. We went into this ten day online auction knowing that the top goods would be very difficult to sell sight unseen, and with important fur buying countries being in lock-down. This was the case for the top western coyotes, sables, lynx cats and lynx.

However several articles did do very well on price and clearance. Beaver, eastern coyotes, big sizes of heavy raccoon and commercial muskrats all sold well thanks to strong North American and Chinese support.

Once the COVID-19 virus has subsided and the world opens up to travel, the global fur trade is solidly committed to attending our next auction. When this will be is a question I cannot answer at this moment. However we did advertise a May 30th to June 2nd, 2020 auction and this remains a possibility if the virus becomes manageable. If not we would hope for a September auction, which has been strongly recommended by many of our top buyers.

Our results will be posted early next week and the sold lots in the catalogue will be as well.

What is the priority now is that we all keep ourselves and our loved ones safe and when the world gets back to normal so will our operation.

Respectfully,
Mark Downey
Chief Executive Officer
Fur Harvesters Auction Inc.
__________________________

Le 3 avril 2020

Mise à jour de l’enchère en ligne

La vente aux enchères en ligne de Fur Harvesters s'est terminée à 17h00, heure normale de l'Est, le 2 avril 2020. C'était notre première tentative d'organiser une vente aux enchères en ligne et elle a été organisée en très peu de temps par quelques membres du personnel très compétent ici à la FHA. Il s'agit certainement d'une période sans précédent qui a nécessité une action sans précédent afin de faciliter la vente de certains produits pour nos expéditeurs et la fourniture de produits aux fabricants.

Nous avons évalué tous les produits à des niveaux que nous jugions réalistes et des seuils ont été établis pour chaque espèce afin de garantir que tous les produits vendus étaient conformes aux valeurs annoncées.

En y allant, il était évident qu'une forte clairance sur toutes les espèces ne se produirait probablement pas. Comme de nombreux articles en fourrure sauvage sont si variés qu'il n'était pas très réaliste de s'attendre à ce que les acheteurs prennent de grandes positions d'achat et enchérissent sur de gros volumes de marchandises. De plus, plusieurs articles et, dans certains cas, des sections d'articles individuels dépendent fortement du pouvoir d'achat de l'Italie et de la Corée. Ces deux pays ont été et continuent d'être très durement touchés par le virus COVID-19. La majorité des achats des plus beaux lots de coyotes de l’ouest est dominée par les Italiens depuis de nombreuses années comme c'est le cas avec les martres pour la Corée. Nous sommes entrés dans cette vente aux enchères en ligne de dix jours en sachant que les meilleurs produits seraient très difficiles à vendre vu que d'importants pays achetant de la fourrure étaient bloqués. Ce fut le cas pour les meilleurs coyotes de l’ouest, les martres,les lynx roux et les lynx canadien.
Cependant, plusieurs articles ont très bien réussi en matière de prix et de liquidation. Le castor, les coyotes de l'Est, les ratons laveurs lourds de grande taille et les rats musqués commerciaux se sont tous bien vendus grâce au fort soutien nord-américain et chinois.

Une fois que le virus COVID-19 aura disparu et que le monde s'ouvrira pour voyager, le commerce mondial de la fourrure s'est fermement engagé à participer à notre prochaine vente aux enchères. Quand ceci arrivera est une question à laquelle je ne peux pas répondre pour le moment. Cependant, nous avons annoncé une vente aux enchères du 30 mai au 2 juin 2020 et cela reste une possibilité si le virus devient gérable. Sinon, nous espérons une vente aux enchères de septembre, qui a été fortement recommandée par bon nombre de nos meilleurs acheteurs.

Nos résultats seront publiés au début de la semaine prochaine et les lots vendus dans le catalogue le seront également.
La priorité est maintenant que nous nous gardions tous, nous et nos proches, en sécurité et que le monde redevienne normal ainsi que celle de notre opération.

Respectueusement,
Mark Downey
Directeur Général
Fur Harvesters Auction Inc.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I am betting on $80+/_ coyotes and $5 rats. Bet only lower quality marten, Fisher and lynx sold at modest prices.

[kingrat]

The better coyotes were valued anywhere from 130 to 165 us dollars. They never sold.

[trigger7mm]

Does anybody know what the general average was on the coyotes that did sell?

[HunterDave]

I'm okay with them asking top dollar for top dollar fur. I'd rather it not sell than take less than what they're worth. If a lot of my II coyotes sell for a decent price I'll be happy. I didn't have enough beaver, muskrat and fox in to worry too much about them. I guess that we have a few more days to find out.

Still looking for 6 beaver and 6 coyotes that are missing. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Marty S]

Yes, that would be really, really neat if you could get $192 for your GD II’s?

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you could get $235 for your I’s and I-II’s?

This is the stuff dreams are made of!!! And puffy white clouds with light pink and baby blue flying unicorns!

Even without Covid-19.

But even with the pandemic, there was plenty of heads up as to where the market is at.

You aren’t into pink flying unicorns, are you Davey???

[kingrat]

Ya I guess old Marty is way smarter than the bums at fha who dont know what they're doing. And what's wrong with pink unicorns?. Maybe Dave's unicorn doesn't have a color how do you know.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Dave with all your dementia are you sure you trapped those 6 beaver and 6 coyotes that are still missing?

[HunterDave]

Yes, that would be really, really neat if you could get $192 for your GD II’s?

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you could get $235 for your I’s and I-II’s?

This is the stuff dreams are made of!!! And puffy white clouds with light pink and baby blue flying unicorns!

Even without Covid-19.

But even with the pandemic, there was plenty of heads up as to where the market is at.

You aren’t into pink flying unicorns, are you Davey???

Did you actually think that you were going to buy my best December coyotes (nothing DGD) for an $83 average? :sHa_sarcasticlol:

GFW.......SEL - 0%, *I - 0%, I-II - 5.5%, II - 89%, DGD - 5.5%

FHA........SEL - 5.5%, *I - 5.5%, I-II - 9%, II - 64%, DGD - 16%

*I’m still missing 6 coyotes that I think are probably my best 1-2’s. I typically have about 20% Labeled.

So yeah, even if only my II’s and DGD stuff sells it’ll still be more lucrative than selling just the best ones for an $83 average. :)

[Marty S]

Did you actually think that you were going to buy my best December coyotes (nothing DGD) for an $83 average? :

I thot last time you said it was a $118 bid? USD now? ok
118.00 x 1.16 = 136.88 auction equivalent after fees.
(Commission, drumming, exchange loss)

I suspect you sold a couple in the sale, your low end stuff? Likely nothing else. Had you sold you would have money for your goods.

One of the most knowledgeable men and best graders in the entire wild fur industry graded your fur and found a bunch of Lo II’s... but you certainly grade better. Then you brought the wrong bag in... what on earth was in the other bag? Would have been nice to see the other half.

I graded an AB veteran trapper’s winter collection today, a very respectable individual. Had his best coyotes in a pile, but I found three Lo II’s in the mix. Then had a pile with his lower grade coyotes, but I found 2 or 3 I-II’s, 5-7 GD II’s and a bunch of Ave II’s. most of his Lo II’s were in the pile as well, but a veteran trapper who spent his whole long life looking at coyote fur and auction grade sheets still isn’t getting the grade thing...quite. But he did ok
(And we even practiced social distancing, wore masks and gloves)

[HunterDave]

No mention of finding any Labeled pelts in his winter collection. There’s the colourful unicorn. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Still using those fictitious auction fees of yours eh? First it was 18% auction fees but what now......16%? HELLO, it’s 11% plus drumming......that’s it!

What about the 7.5% buyer’s fee? Oops, let’s not mention what buyers are saving.

FHA 11% Labeled and 9% I-II.......GFW 0% Labeled and 5.5% I-II. I guess that those FHA graders don’t know what they are doing right? Oops, they don’t stand to profit in any way by fudging the grades.

$200 pelts for $130.......Yeehaw! I’ll wait to get paid thanks.

[Marty S]

Still using those fictitious auction fees of yours eh? First it was 18% auction fees but what now......16%? HELLO, it’s 11% plus drumming......that’s it!

Oh yes, i forgot that there remains a rift between some people who believe institutions exchange foreign currency for free and others who dont.

Remember the sale is conducted in USD and funds exchanged for you unless you are paid in USD. Even if you exchange funds at a bank you will lose 2%


$200 pelts for $130.......Yeehaw! I’ll wait to get paid thanks.

Yes, it looks like you will have a bit of a wait. At this point id hate to have to wait and personally would have zero desire to hold goods at this time, within reason. I hope we are able to salvage our economy, as well as our fragile fur markets. Italy is currently in a state of fear, chaos, and mourning and my sources tell me that the Italian buyers are out for the rest of this season, representing a high percentage of our highest priced wild goods.

What does tomorrow look like, as in post lockdown? Many, many without jobs, many, many businesses tanked and tanking. These are the people packing that wonderful plastic, that swipe and take a CG parka home. I believe this event will seriously curtail that.

However, the company i buy for is still taking goods, so im sure their outlook is brighter than mine. So thats the good news.

[moose maniac]

Oh yes, i forgot that there remains a rift between some people who believe institutions exchange foreign currency for free and others who dont.

Remember the sale is conducted in USD and funds exchanged for you unless you are paid in USD. Even if you exchange funds at a bank you will lose 2%




Yes, it looks like you will have a bit of a wait. At this point id hate to have to wait and personally would have zero desire to hold goods at this time, within reason. I hope we are able to salvage our economy, as well as our fragile fur markets. Italy is currently in a state of fear, chaos, and mourning and my sources tell me that the Italian buyers are out for the rest of this season, representing a high percentage of our highest priced wild goods.

What does tomorrow look like, as in post lockdown? Many, many without jobs, many, many businesses tanked and tanking. These are the people packing that wonderful plastic, that swipe and take a CG parka home. I believe this event will seriously curtail that.

However, the company i buy for is still taking goods, so im sure their outlook is brighter than mine. So thats the good news.
Good!! Come buy my 40 lynx lol

[HunterDave]

Remember the sale is conducted in USD and funds exchanged for you unless you are paid in USD. Even if you exchange funds at a bank you will lose 2%.

US$ value vs CD$ = $1.42
To buy CD$ with the US$ = $1.38
$1.38 / $1.42 = .97183098591%
Apparently that rounds up to 2%? Yeah, okay. :rolleye2:

Anyway,

FHA auction fees = 11%
Drumming = $1 per coyote pelt
Shipping = $12, and
Currency exchange = 1% (Which doesn't actually cost you anything, you buy CD$ with US$ at the posted rate)

Here's the good news.....Typically NAFA gave us about CD$1.34 for every US$. The US$ is currently very strong vs the CD$ and we should get about CD$1.37 for every US$. That's an increase of .888888888%. Therefore, that in itself cancels any perceived loss due to the currency exchange, we gained, AND if you apply that 1% gained against the auction fees, it only costs us 10%. :sHa_shakeshout:

18% auction fees.......16%.......Total horse ****. :tongue2:

[Reddog]

All I know is I’m damn glad I don’t have to worry about whatever the number is. All put up fur is sold. Money is in the bank. Time value of money isn’t eating away the value of my goods. I beat the inevitable drop of this glorious coyote market we had a good run with. And I got my highest average of my career over all. Just hoping coyotes have any value next fall.

[South west trappin RG]

Marty arguing with Dave is fun I have done it but he is always right always ! An will have the last post on a thread. I hope everything sells at the auction I hate having left over fur. I am glad all the left over stuff for the second sale I was going to send in GFW took it off my hands.

[kingrat]

All I know is I’m damn glad I don’t have to worry about whatever the number is. All put up fur is sold. Money is in the bank. Time value of money isn’t eating away the value of my goods. I beat the inevitable drop of this glorious coyote market we had a good run with. And I got my highest average of my career over all. Just hoping coyotes have any value next fall.

Just because the top coyotes didnt sell for over 200 canadian in an internet auction during a global pandemic doesn't mean the market has crashed and is gone for good. Marty is still buying for top dollar he says.

[Marty S]

Sure hope so. I hope FHA scores BIG in the fall or whenever their next physical auction occurs.

Don't be too hard on Davey... I met him in Barrhead and he's actually a wonderful human being!!!

[trigger7mm]

All I know is I’m damn glad I don’t have to worry about whatever the number is. All put up fur is sold. Money is in the bank. Time value of money isn’t eating away the value of my goods. I beat the inevitable drop of this glorious coyote market we had a good run with. And I got my highest average of my career over all. Just hoping coyotes have any value next fall.
Same as for me Reddog. I’m glad all my fur is sold as well.

[204ruger]

Same as for me Reddog. I’m glad all my fur is sold as well.

Sold fur is the best fur!!

[Big Grey Wolf]

Marty, know Dave well would not go so far as to say "he is a wonderful person" more like he meets minimun standard for Alberta Trapper!

[HunterDave]

Marty, know Dave well would not go so far as to say "he is a wonderful person" more like he meets minimun standard for Alberta Trapper!

I'm a lot of things to different people. :lol:

How people perceive me is directly related to the minimum moral standards that I expect of them. :)

[wolfcrazy]

I'm a lot of things to different people. :lol:

How people perceive me is directly related to the minimum moral standards that I expect of them. :)

Dave you’ve always been special to me and I enjoy reading your posts on your forum.

[Marty S]

Did I just score some Davey points?

[HunterDave]

Marty arguing with Dave is fun I have done it but he is always right always ! An will have the last post on a thread. I hope everything sells at the auction I hate having left over fur. I am glad all the left over stuff for the second sale I was going to send in GFW took it off my hands.

So, you're implying that I'm wrong? It really does cost 18% in fees when you send fur to FHA and not the 11% that I took the time to explain in detail for everyone?

Rod, you've always been okay with watching Alberta Trappers get bent over a barrel and saying nothing so I'm not surprised that you'd be somehow offended by me informing them of the true auction fees....... and I have no problem whatsoever with doing that. :)

I'm glad that you found someone to take your fur "off your hands". I've never held fur over for future auctions but I've heard that many do.

I sold all my best coyotes for the second auction to a buyer as well. Fifty pelts for a I-II average and 7 coyotes for a $5 less average. We are very fortunate up this way to have a couple of buyers willing to pay reasonable prices. They made money, I made money and everyone walked away happy. :sHa_shakeshout: My lower grading stuff is in for shipping to FHA.

Had either one of them downgraded my fur and tried to convince me that I'd pay 18% in auction fees, I would have packed up my fur and sent them all to auction. Given the current circumstances I'm glad that I didn't have to do that.

I have the luxury of being able to wait to get full value as I only need my trapping money to keep me in beer, bullets and band-aids. I realize that there are many Trappers that need that money just to survive, particularly now, so selling their fur for less to get an immediate payment is the best solution for them. Kinda like selling to a pawn shop, you won't get full value but you'll get the cash that you need right away.

To each their own, there's no wrong way. It's best to know how the game is played going into it is all. :)

[HunterDave]

Dave you’ve always been special to me and I enjoy reading your posts on your forum.

How about the time that I revealed that the ATA went behind Trapper's backs and requested a mandatory snaring course for all Trappers in Alberta without their knowledge of it......did you like that thread?

You remember, that thread, right? You said that it wasn't true and you called me a liar on it. How'd you make out with that? :sHa_sarcasticlol:

Yeah, you're real special to me too. :lol:

[Marty S]

Uh oh...

Davey on a rampage...

Davey going crazy...

Needs to change forum handle from Hunter Dave to Crazyyyy Daveyyy!!!

[Marty S]

Oh when will this isolation ever end???

I just cant take it anymore!!!

[Marty S]

Dang... the caps lock function has been disabled...

[HunterDave]

So Marty, how much in total are the FHA auction fees, currency conversion included, that Alberta Trappers should expect to pay anyway? :evilgrin:

Asking for a friend. :lol:

[Marty S]

You lost me, could you please be more specific?

[Saskfly16]

Keep it up boys just making some popcorn. Best thing on the internet, till the FHA prices get posted.


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[wallydog]

Keep it up boys just making some popcorn. Best thing on the internet, till the FHA prices get posted.


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:argue2: haha

[Marty S]

Keep it up boys just making some popcorn. Best thing on the internet, till the FHA prices get posted.


Naa... the numbers suck. This is gonna be waaaay better!

Mind you they are busy trying to sell goods PT right now. But we suddenly find ourselves in a relatively bad market landscape. So lets go back to popcorn!!!

One of the very best things you can fo with popcorn:

- butter it up sufficiently/excessively
- salt it up sufficiently
-pour sugar all over it
-mix all ingredients

Serves 1

[Marty S]

Im makin me some popcorn tonite!!!

[South west trappin RG]

Someone has been day drinking again the show will get real good latter tonight. To bad I will be in bed an have to wait for the morning to read the rants. Mabe I will make some popcorn an stay up for this one. How do I like Trappers to get screwed Dave? I donate time an money for the Trappers in Alberta all the time.

[coyote_man]

Take it easy with the popcorn dressing as those skins were easier to deal with than dragging the real thing back to the truck as in years past.Those milestone birthdays also cause us to pack extra luggage.

[Powder monkey]

Getting low

[kingrat]

Ok children starting to get stupid. Let's grow up.

[HunterDave]

So I’m a drunk now? I must have a very strong constitution to be able to do all that fancy assed ciphering in order to disprove the fake 18% auction fee news AND provide what the actual auction fees are.......18% vs 11%.

Where does the other 7% come from.......out of a colourful, flying unicorn’s arse. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

But seriously, I REALLY want to know.

For the record, I don’t know the clowns calling me a drunk, nor do they know me. Even if I did and I was a drunk, I wouldn’t care what a couple of ATA skillet tossers thought. :lol:

Now I’m thirsty......I think that i’ll Have a beer. Cheers. :happy0180:

[wolfcrazy]

So I’m a drunk now? I must have a very strong constitution to be able to do all that fancy assed ciphering in order to disprove the fake 18% auction fee news AND provide what the actual auction fees are.......18% vs 11%.

Where does the other 7% come from.......out of a colourful, flying unicorn’s arse. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

But seriously, I REALLY want to know.

For the record, I don’t know the clowns calling me a drunk, nor do they know me. Even if I did and I was a drunk, I wouldn’t care what a couple of ATA skillet tossers thought. :lol:

Now I’m thirsty......I think that i’ll Have a beer. Cheers. :happy0180:

Careful Dave you might self explode again and give yourself a forum time out. I don’t really care if you think you’re a super sleuth and think there is/was a big conspiracy at the ATA.

To me the fact is they have vision and looking at the big picture.

[HunterDave]

Careful Dave you might self explode again and give yourself a forum time out. I don’t really care if you think you’re a super sleuth and think there is/was a big conspiracy at the ATA.

To me the fact is they have vision and looking at the big picture.

It doesn’t surprise me in the least that someone like you doesn’t care that a fur buyer is telling Alberta Trappers that the auction fees are 18% when they are actually 11%. To me it matters. That’s the difference between acting in your own best interests and looking out for other Trappers I guess.

[wolfcrazy]

It doesn’t surprise me in the least that someone like you doesn’t care that a fur buyer is telling Alberta Trappers that the auction fees are 18% when they are actually 11%. To me it matters. That’s the difference between acting in your own best interests and looking out for other Trappers I guess.

At the end of the day Dave it doesn’t matter if is 16%, 17.5% or 32%. It all boils down to the choice the seller has to make when the price is offered at the time. The seller can counter offer, they can sell or decide not to sell. The seller might or might not know the market but they will know if they would be happy with the price offered. I sent fur to the auction and I sold some to a buyer. I know what I got when I sold to the buyer and I don’t know what I’m getting from the auction yet.

[204ruger]

Hopefully I got this straight. Dave you said in a previous post this is how the fha prices to the puzzle are broken down
“ FHA auction fees = 11%
Drumming = $1 per coyote pelt
Shipping = $12, and
Currency exchange = 1% (Which doesn't actually cost you anything, you buy CD$ with US$ at the posted rate)”

To my thinking it’s actually closer to 12.5% then
11% fees
1$/pelt for drumming which on 200$ coyote is .5%
And the currency exchange 1%
=12.5% with that figuring.

I do know that whatever the current exchange rate was is what we got at nafa, not what it would cost you to go buy Canadian with US at the bank.

If market said 1.32 or 1.31 or 1.34 that’s what showed up and we got paid for at nafa. Fha has always been different in that way. If exchange is 1.31 you get 1.29 or so, unless that has changed now but to my sources it hasn’t.

I also know my furs at auction Havnt sold and my ones I took to a buyer are sold and paid well for.

[kingrat]

Yes that's how the exchange works, nafa was slightly better because they were dealing in multi millions and the bank gave them a better deal than what fha gets or got. So it's not a matter of fha being greedy or anything just how finance and banks work.

[APAShooter]

Hopefully I got this straight. Dave you said in a previous post this is how the fha prices to the puzzle are broken down
“ FHA auction fees = 11%
Drumming = $1 per coyote pelt
Shipping = $12, and
Currency exchange = 1% (Which doesn't actually cost you anything, you buy CD$ with US$ at the posted rate)”

To my thinking it’s actually closer to 12.5% then
11% fees
1$/pelt for drumming which on 200$ coyote is .5%
And the currency exchange 1%
=12.5% with that figuring.

I do know that whatever the current exchange rate was is what we got at nafa, not what it would cost you to go buy Canadian with US at the bank.

If market said 1.32 or 1.31 or 1.34 that’s what showed up and we got paid for at nafa. Fha has always been different in that way. If exchange is 1.31 you get 1.29 or so, unless that has changed now but to my sources it hasn’t.

I also know my furs at auction Havnt sold and my ones I took to a buyer are sold and paid well for.

^^^This is exactly correct... no need to read any of the ****ing back and forth previous to this. This is the facts.

[Marty S]

Nowhere on this thread did I state 18%, and Dave knows it. An earlier thread months ago, yes and I corrected and stated that was a mistake.

On this thread I claimed a 16% fees value. Still believe that. My understanding of these values:
- 11% commission
- $1 drumming = 1% +/-
= 12% if we can follow that much
+ Exchange Rate Loss

Then on exchange rate, my understanding is that FHA is/was 2% higher than the NAFA exchange. NAFA exchanged was slightly over a 2% loss. If you shipped at NAFA and weren’t a WFSC member, you also were at 11% commission + $1 drumming + 2% exchange rate loss = 14% Fees/Loss for non WFSC NAFA shippers

Davey emailed the company and asked and got and posted what I understood to be a very vague answer but was all he needed to hear.

I suspect that if FHA was at a 4% exchange rate, they might not be doing that any longer due to threads like this one. My information came from a thread on the Canadian Trapper Forum from a retired prestigious FHA employee.

If this was so, then this would have been done as a choice not as a poor child victim of the bank. When I go to the bank the bank dings me just over 2% to exchange funds, CDN to USD and USD to CDN, just like any other business in the country.

However smart businesses often don’t use banks to exchange, but rather Currency Exchange Service businesses, where you can exchange money at a much better rate than what the bank will give for a very small fee. It is my understanding that NAFA was big enough that they could negotiate their own exchange rate with the bank for a fair rate that they didn’t have to take that end of their business elsewhere.

So when you sold at NAFA, you also lost 2% on the exchange rate unless you took your cheque in USD. (Of which you can do the same at FHA)

12% + 2% = 14% at NAFA for non WFSC shippers... correct? Is it just Dave who doesn’t understand this type math?

Kingrat has now pointed out that FHA exchange is higher than NAFA’s. Thank you Kingrat. (And like who on earth are you? Like what is your name? Never figured that one out)

So now the question remains, how much higher is FHAs exchange rate than NAFA’s?

If it is 1% higher that would put FHA fees at 15%.

If it is 2% higher, that would put FHA fees at 16%

It is my belief that up to this point in time, they are exchanging UDS for you at a level that is 2% higher than NAFA, thus rendering fee totals to 16% including commission, exchange $$$ loss, and drumming.



Dear Mark Taylor,

As we all know that you follow these threads very closely as evidenced earlier in the trapping season, when your bosses were off in China and you started posting on this wonderful Alberta trapping forum, but have since that time largely refrained, could you please settle this discussion for us by answering accurately, precisely and without evasion, these pointed questions...

How much higher of an exchange rate has FHA exchanged USD to CDN dollars from auction proceeds after each 2019 sale than what NAFA was exchanging USD to CDN dollars for trappers/shippers selling goods in the various FHA sales? Was FHA exchanging funds at the same level as NAFA or 1% higher or 2% higher?

Could you please answer these questions for us fine folks here on the AO forum?

Thank you,
Marty

[HunterDave]

Hopefully I got this straight. Dave you said in a previous post this is how the fha prices to the puzzle are broken down
“ FHA auction fees = 11%
Drumming = $1 per coyote pelt
Shipping = $12, and
Currency exchange = 1% (Which doesn't actually cost you anything, you buy CD$ with US$ at the posted rate)”

To my thinking it’s actually closer to 12.5% then
11% fees
1$/pelt for drumming which on 200$ coyote is .5%
And the currency exchange 1%
=12.5% with that figuring.

I do know that whatever the current exchange rate was is what we got at nafa, not what it would cost you to go buy Canadian with US at the bank.

If market said 1.32 or 1.31 or 1.34 that’s what showed up and we got paid for at nafa. Fha has always been different in that way. If exchange is 1.31 you get 1.29 or so, unless that has changed now but to my sources it hasn’t.

I also know my furs at auction Havnt sold and my ones I took to a buyer are sold and paid well for.

You forgot the $12 shipping but it doesn't matter.

The fact is that no one can say what percentage you'll pay in auction fees without knowing how many coyote pelts you put into auction, how many sold and what they sold for. The $12 for shipping is going to be a much different percentage if you ship 10 pelts or 100 pelts.

Likewise with drumming fees......You used a $200 pelt to come up with a .5% drumming fee while Marty used a $100 pelt to come up with his 1%. Ya see how that works?

Anyway, I'm burning daylight and I gotta get a start on my day drinking. :lol:

[Marty S]

... not that it’s a bad thing, every business needs to make money. Just for comparative purposes and arguments sakes.

[kingrat]

Sorry for the derail but Marty if I place a large order through your store do you offer some type of free shipping like halfords does?

[204ruger]

You forgot the $12 shipping but it doesn't matter.

The fact is that no one can say what percentage you'll pay in auction fees without knowing how many coyote pelts you put into auction, how many sold and what they sold for. The $12 for shipping is going to be a much different percentage if you ship 10 pelts or 100 pelts.

Likewise with drumming fees......You used a $200 pelt to come up with a .5% drumming fee while Marty used a $100 pelt to come up with his 1%. Ya see how that works?

Anyway, I'm burning daylight and I gotta get a start on my day drinking. :lol:

Well I left out the 12$ shipping because it only really matters if you only send in a few furs. The unknown is so great due to the amount of fur sent in with the shipping that’s why I left it out but I knew I’d be questioned on it.

As for drumming and all my figurings I used a 200$ coyote because you keep talking about these 200$ coyotes you have so I figured it was fitting.

I guess the big thing here is your stance is that you loose 11% and only 11% on your auction sold fur that is not the case all those other costs and money taken off affects your end result and even more so for the guys that only send in 10,15,or 30 furs or coyotes whatever. But I guess technically speaking yes your commission fees are 11% but in the eyes of a seller all the other things are a fee as well.

[TrapperMike]

What’s this $12 shipping. I’ve shipped furs for years and never had to pay anything for shipping.

[204ruger]

What’s this $12 shipping. I’ve shipped furs for years and never had to pay anything for shipping.

With fha you have a flat fee of 12$ to ship doesn’t matter how many bags u have.

With Nafa I’m not sure what shipping would have been without having a wfsc membership. Pay 125$ and your good for 5 years doesn’t matter how many bags or how many times you ship and you got 3% back on your commission.

Are you talking about sending fur to nafa or fha?

[TrapperMike]

I believe that the only option is FHA.

[204ruger]

I believe that the only option is FHA.

What I was asking was were you talking about shipping for years to nafa or fha and not paying for shipping.

If it was fha I’m not sure why you wouldn’t have paid any shipping.
If it was nafa then is it because you were charged to be part of wfsc then you wouldn’t pay after that it’s a one time charge for 5 years.

[goose slayer10]

Marty is correct.

[wolfcrazy]

With fha you have a flat fee of 12$ to ship doesn’t matter how many bags u have.

With Nafa I’m not sure what shipping would have been without having a wfsc membership. Pay 125$ and your good for 5 years doesn’t matter how many bags or how many times you ship and you got 3% back on your commission.

Are you talking about sending fur to nafa or fha?

I was told by Mary that FHA was waving the shipping fee if you shipped through the ATA.

[kingrat]

Results are posted

[wolfcrazy]

Results are posted

Oh..... do not look good.

[kingrat]

Considering only the crappy coyotes sold for 80us that ain't bad. I sold a little raccoon for 25 cents now that's bad.

[Saskfly16]

Amazed they sold anything at all with a global pandemic on.

My prices where down about 20% and averaged a 50% clearance.

Considering the state of the world I will take it.

Rest of my fur is in the freezer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rvsask]

According to my math, I only sold 38 % of my coyotes and 0% of the damn fox that ran into my snares. People freezing their current batch of dogs, are you wrapping them individually in plastic or in bundles?

[Saskfly16]

Have mine dryed ready to go so just put them in the freezer pressed between cardboard.

If that’s wrong someone let me know. First year I’m carrying over dried pelts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrapperMike]

Having trouble finding auction results.

[kingrat]

Only personal results for now.

[Marty S]

Anybody git a $165 USD kiyute?? If you did, condider yourself the winner. Unless they PT the top lot yet?

Davey, did you?

No idea what colour, must have been a I or a I-II. Could have been from anywhere

[HunterDave]

A whopping 13 of my coyotes sold. :lol: Two GOOD II A-B, two II A-D and all 9 of my DGD. Those were the only coyotes that had a grade with an A in it. I guess that A graded Yotes were preferred. Unfortunately, they are mainly all dark around here. The only silver lining besides all my DGD Yotes selling is getting a $46 average for them......I’ll take that all day long.

Zero fox sold.....5 of 7 muskrats sold......7 of 10 beavers sold (I’m not sure why half of them graded Eastern :confused:)

I was hopeful for the auction results but not very optimistic given that it was an online auction that they threw together at the last minute. Hopefully, for the next auction they can, at the very least, ship out sample pelts to buyers like NAFA did last year. Obviously, buyers being able to inspect the fur would be best but i’m Not sure that’ll happen anytime soon.

[TrapperMike]

Dave was that $46 Canadian or US? What did you get for your rats and beavers?

[trigger7mm]

Dave, what do you mean by DGD?

[HunterDave]

Dave was that $46 Canadian or US? What did you get for your rats and beavers?

US$.

Muskrat was put in for a young fella that I was mentoring. He averaged $2.10 on 5 DGD L pelts. The two unsold are 2XL.

Beaver......Three 2XL and four L = $12.64. Three XL unsold.

Dave, what do you mean by DGD?

DGD is low end Damaged fur (rubs, weak shoulders, etc) that still have commercial value. Amount of damage varies. See DEFECTS in the link.

https://www.furharvesters.com/pdf/gradingterm.pdf

It would be nice if FHA added the appropriate abbreviations in the description. Maybe add G, R or BDLY along with the DGD. I'd also like to see them adding a G for GOOD II instead of just II. It's probably in the Remarks column in the catalogue for fur buyers like with NAFA. I suppose that you can figure it out by the selling price though.

[trigger7mm]

That’s for clearing that up for me.

[trigger7mm]

Had a friend of mine sell 14 coyotes and a fox to Halfords yesterday. She is just starting out and is still fairly inexperienced in the ways of the fur buying world. She got $700 for the lot. Another buddy of mine saw her coyotes before she sold them, and said there were some $160 dogs in that bunch.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Trigger hear you but last years $160 yotes are probably $80 yotes now with loss of NAFA and on-line FHA sales to limited Corona market. Also Canada Goose sewing masks now instead of high end park's.

[TrapperMike]

Not good trigger. Fox was not worth anything. So averaged $50 per coyote. Dave averaged $65 for his damaged coyotes at the sale.