Fishing in Indigenous territory?

[Fattyffat]

Apologies if this is a dumb question but I've searched everywhere and I couldn't find the answer to this.

I want to fish the bow south of Gleichen which happens to be in the Siksika 146 region. What exactly are the rules with fishing the bow in first nations territory? Would that be considered trespassing? I went on the Alberta Government website and it doesn't say that the Bow River is a harvestable lake for the first nations so I'm thinking I should be fine but I don't wanna accidentally trespass or anything like that.

[58thecat]

from what I gather you cant fish/hunt on res land unless invited and accompanied by a native buddy....

[schleprock]

Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.

[58thecat]

Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.

ya I wouldn't just go off of that cuz the chief said so as a truck of good ol'boys pulls up...trust me....a native buddy with you goes a log way....just saying.

[anorthernhunter]

I rarely jump into these native or politically charged conversations.

To me ...

Lands of Canada (that aren't privately owned) are just that ... Lands of Canada so help me understand how a native group or reservation or territory is different from a Land of Canada.

How can one group dictate access to federal land? There is one Nation ... that nation is Canada and within the country many many groups, populations, ethnicities live but to presume that one group/population etc can legally prevent fellow citizens of the country access is non-sensical to me.

Again ... this isn't meant to be a flame toward natives or rights etc ... more so a commentary about an overarching country made up of groups, populations and ethnicities that live within the country - all with equal rights under the one country.

Northern

[Piker]

I always thought you could fish below the traditional high water line. But still it still could be a problem getting to such a spot unless you are floating the river

[Talking moose]

Most reservations require you to go to the band office and get permission from the chief or one of the administrators.

This. I know at gift lake it states permission needed from the band.

[Smoky buck]

FN traditional territory you are good to go but FN reserves you need permission. Some bands won’t grant permission, some a friend on the reserve and your good, some charge access fee, and others don’t care

It varies a lot and if you don’t have a friend on the reservation in question find the number for the band office. Call the band office and ask if it’s possible to get permission to fish the area in question.

[anorthernhunter]

This. I know at gift lake it states permission needed from the band.

This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.

I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.

Northern

[zabbo]

This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.

I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.

Northern

I sure wouldn't want to test that in court. Could be reeeal expensive! :scared0018:

How is it that national railroads can be barricaded with virtually no repercussions?? I learned a long time ago, "Life ain't fair"! :argue2:

[Talking moose]

I sure wouldn't want to test that int court. Probably be reeeal expensive! :scared0018:

Probably lose too.

[Talking moose]

This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.

I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.

Northern

Serious question. Are you new to Canada?

[anorthernhunter]

Serious answer ...

Yup ... born here 51 years ago.

Why the question?

[Talking moose]

Serious answer ...

Yup ... born here 51 years ago.

Why the question?

Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.

[Smoky buck]

This is my point ... how can one group ... part of a number of groups that comprise Canada dictate to fellow citizens of the country that they need permission to access federal - non private land.

I can't see how this can be legally enforceable.

Northern

Indian reserves are basically private land. FN territory is a different story and is still crown land

Doesn’t matter if we agree with the laws or not it is what it is

[anorthernhunter]

Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.

Like I said, I rarely speak up about these emotionally charged and individually biased topics (meaning one side believes they are correct and won't budge and the other side the same - so nothing moves forward). I kick myself for jumping in on this one as I can see how mods shut down these threads as they deteriorate.

I will be more judicious with my postings moving forward.

"Privileges that other people in Canada do not" whether by Natives or by any other groups within Canada, at times, can be the catalyst to friction.

I was simply pointing out that we are one country ... made up of a mosaic of groups, ethnicities, populations etc ... and for one of those groups to insist on preventing access to another citizen of Canada (key point) for the simple action of fishing in a stream or lake or ocean seems counter to the idea of one country for all.

Anyway. I will leave it at that ... as I said - my opinion and no malice intended moving forward.

Northern

[zabbo]

Probably lose too.

Serious question. Are you new to Canada?


Yup and good question. Missed a couple posts in between. Whoops. :)

[DiabeticKripple]

If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.

They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.

[Talking moose]

If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.

They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.

Believe it or not, there are private properties along the north Saskatchewan river that are owned right up to the water. No mater where the water is. Some sort of clause where it’s been grandfathered in.
I’ve never confirmed this but was told by more than one person. Wish I knew 100% because there’s a place I’d like to fish along the river where the owner claims just this.

[smitty9]

Well then you already know indigenous people have privileges that the other people of Canada do not. Just seems odd that you sound surprised by this.
Hence the question.

This^.

First Nations are treated differently for that very reason. As someone who teaches social studies, I'm not going to get into the 73 part seminar on why. :) The answers are readily available. I say this with all due respect; not flaming or meant to provoke. At all.

I am simply saying there is a long, long, tortured history here...and that's why. Whether you agree with it of course, is another matter. Probably best discussed and debated offline, in my opinion.

If you are really and truly interested in these answers, contact a law firm specializing in first nations rights. Or, to reiterate, google the answers and see what you come up with.

[Edit: my apologies. You did say you did try to search for the answers. My bad; I should have read more closely!]

[Smoky buck]

Believe it or not, there are private properties along the north Saskatchewan river that are owned right up to the water. No mater where the water is. Some sort of clause where it’s been grandfathered in.
I’ve never confirmed this but was told by more than one person. Wish I knew 100% because there’s a place I’d like to fish along the river where the owner claims just this.

Was told a similar thing with some properties owning even the creek bed of jumping pound creek. Same thing old grandfathered clause with old properties

[Ranger CS]

My understanding is that anyone can travel and in this case fish any navigable water within the country. It is also my understanding that navigable water access includes water and land up to the high water mark. If there is anyone on the forum who can provide legal interpretation on this matter I would like to hear it.

[pikeman06]

Just call the band office and politely ask permission to fish for Krust's sake...tell them what yer driving etc. Maybe say thanks if they grant you permission... Or go marchin in there like it's your right and come back to four flat tires and a hole in uour gas tank. then let us all know how the fishing was. I grew up around natives, just show a little respect and courtesy, don't play dumb...Maybe someday things will change. Until then I would suggest a civil approach. Speaking from experience.

[dustinjoels]

Call the band office and ask. Maybe they say yes. Maybe there’s a small fee to be paid.

If they say no, plenty of other of places to go. You might not think it’s right that they tell you no, but disregarding what they say could lead to vehicle damage or hostility that just isn’t worth it. You could also involve authorities which would just escalate the hostility.

On a side note, a dream catcher hanging from the rear view window isn’t the worst idea.

[SNAPFisher]

Like I said, I rarely speak up about these emotionally charged and individually biased topics (meaning one side believes they are correct and won't budge and the other side the same - so nothing moves forward). I kick myself for jumping in on this one as I can see how mods shut down these threads as they deteriorate.

I will be more judicious with my postings moving forward.

"Privileges that other people in Canada do not" whether by Natives or by any other groups within Canada, at times, can be the catalyst to friction.

I was simply pointing out that we are one country ... made up of a mosaic of groups, ethnicities, populations etc ... and for one of those groups to insist on preventing access to another citizen of Canada (key point) for the simple action of fishing in a stream or lake or ocean seems counter to the idea of one country for all.

Anyway. I will leave it at that ... as I said - my opinion and no malice intended moving forward.

Northern

No one seems to be disagreeing with you at all. I agree with your viewpoint 100%

This topic has been going on here a long time is all. Back to the op, why you would want to test when there are so many fishing options...good luck to you. Especially during Covid times when most first nations are not allowing anyone on or near. You would be pushing your luck in these times imho.

[sk270]

My understanding is that anyone can travel and in this case fish any navigable water within the country. It is also my understanding that navigable water access includes water and land up to the high water mark. If there is anyone on the forum who can provide legal interpretation on this matter I would like to hear it.

I, too, would like to hear an informed legal interpretation of this. I have first hand knowledge of people who claim land ownership to the water's edge, as backed up by survey maps of their property. Adjacent properties show the high water mark as their limit. That is, the survey lines are different for the two cases.

Also, it is my understanding that an Indigenous band had the right to bar any non-members from their reserve. I'd appreciate an explanation of rights to navigable water as it applies to reserves.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can write authoritatively on this.

[wwbirds]

"Reserve lands are not strictly “owned” by bands but are held in trust for bands by the Crown. The Indian Act grants the Minister of Indian Affairs authority over much of the activity on reserves."


Do First Nations own their land?
"First Nations can then develop their own laws about land use, the environment and natural resources and take advantage of cultural and economic development opportunities with their new land management authorities."

I dont think anyone owns navigatable waterways but you sure wouldnt want to walk on shore without permission from band office. Myself I dont see wining a debate on where the high water mark is so it is not worth it to me.

[fisher Gord]

there is some very old deeded land that goes to the middle of the creek and others own the creek bottom as they have land on both sides. I know 2 that still own mineral rights.

[walking buffalo]

If you walked up the banks of the river from outside the reserve, you shouldn’t need permission.

They don’t own the rivers. Don’t let them make you think that they do.

You Cannot walk up the bank within an Indian Reserve without permission. You can't float the water flowing through an Indian Reserve without permission.

True, they don't "Own" the river on Indian Reserves, the Federal government does, and Federal law restricts access and use of ALL land and waters within Indian Reserves.

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This thread is going off on many tangents that don't apply to the OP's question, which is also confused....


Federal Indian reserve land (and waters) laws have nothing to do with what may apply in other jurisdictions such as Alberta.

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Fatty,

The land you mention is a Federal Indian Reserve, (not to be confused with claimed "indigenous territory".

You must have permission to be on Indian Reserve land AND waters, including navigable streams.

Without permission, you are trespassing.

[sk270]

Y
The land you mention is a Federal Indian Reserve, (not to be confused with claimed "indigenous territory".
You must have permission to be on Indian Reserve land AND waters, including navigable streams.
Without permission, you are trespassing.

Thanks, Walking Buffalo. You sound sufficiently informed for me. :)

This is what I thought, but I got confused when I tried to use google to check it out.

[Fattyffat]

Fatty,

The land you mention is a Federal Indian Reserve, (not to be confused with claimed "indigenous territory".

You must have permission to be on Indian Reserve land AND waters, including navigable streams.

Without permission, you are trespassing.

Thanks for the reply.

For anyone else still wondering, I reached out to one of the Chiefs and they said that you do in fact need a permit from Siksika Land Management. The permit is $15 but I am unsure if it is for the whole fishing year.

[Dark Wing]

Lots of land and lakes/rivers out there that aren't FN's . You may get permission from one guy but I'm sure there would be a dozen more that didn't want you on there land . I'd find a different spot myself .

[smitty9]

Lots of land and lakes/rivers out there that aren't FN's . You may get permission from one guy but I'm sure there would be a dozen more that didn't want you on there land . I'd find a different spot myself .

^This!

Take heed here: depending where you are in the province, which band you are dealing with, make SURE you get permission from the folks in charge and with the authority.

That said, I'll piggyback on Darkwing's point and say, in some places, that still doesn't matter a whole lot. You could be hassled by a response from entirely different person that says something like "well..you didn't ask me for permission!"

In other words, there can be an issue (a major one) in terms of consistency of access, who to ask, communication, who enforces it etc etc.

[Smoky buck]

Usually when you are dealing with a band that issues a permit like Fatty mentioned you will be given written permission that you must keep on you. In these cases you don’t here about people having issues because the band has an established system