what fishfinder under 1000? [Archive] - Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum

EZM

08-26-2020, 12:30 PM

Here's a unit, $ 849, that has virtually every single feature and technology available to any other unit at that price point. This is, without argument, the biggest bang for your buck right now.

Ussually both Lowrance and Humminbird have comparable units - but there are periods of time where one manufacturer is a step ahead in their packages for 6 month or so - right now, Hummingbird, at this price point, is the better option.

This unit has ......

Sonar, GPS, Mapping, Live Updates, multiple card slots, Live Auto Mapping, High Def, Chirp, Side Imaging, Down Imaging, dual spectrum, switch fire and also MEGA DI imaging ........... there isn't a thing missing here that any other unit has at this price point anywhere.

Here's the description ...

NEW to HELIX 7- MEGA Down Imaging: Get unprecedented underwater clarity with coverage down to 125 feet below your boat. You'll unlock new details with up to 3X more output than standard Down Imaging sonar
• Dual Spectrum CHIRP: Before you cast, know what's down there thanks to long, well-defined fish arches, and a clear view of fish-holding structure and the bottom. Powered by proprietary, Low Q CHIRP transducer, Dual Spectrum offers two ways to search: wide mode for maximum coverage and narrow mode for maximum detail
• SwitchFire Sonar: Take command of how your sonar returns appear. With two display modes, you can add or remove detail, account for water depth, temperature and turbulence, even watch lure presentations - all at the push of a button
• Humminbird Basemap Built-in: This enhanced standard basemap provides you with a clear view of underwater terrain and surrounding points of interest so you can fish and navigate with total confidence. Identify buoys, day markers, hazards, marinas, contours, depth markers and much, much more. Includes charts of more than 10,000 lakes, plus coastal coverage for the U.S.
• AutoChart Live: Create real-time maps of your fishing spots, with access to patented Humminbird® LakeMaster® features. Map depth contours, bottom hardness and vegetation as you drive your boat, with eight hours of built-in recording time
• LakeMaster Compatible: Upgrade to the unrivaled accuracy and detail of Humminbird LakeMaster maps. From easy-to-read contours, to highlighted depth ranges and adjustable water levels, you'll have all the tools you need to make every moment count

The Humminbird® Helix™ 7 CHIRP Mega DI GPS G3 with Nav+ fish finder features MEGA Down Imaging, Dual Spectrum CHIRP Sonar, AutoChart Live, GPS and Humminbird Basemap built-in. The 7", ultra-wide display gives you ample room to view the many pre-loaded split screen view options. Includes transducer and mounting hardware, power cable, gimbal mounting bracket.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/120446/humminbird-helix-7-mega-di-gps-g3-with-nav

Walleyedude

08-26-2020, 01:16 PM

there isn't a thing missing here that any other unit has at this price point anywhere.

I'm going to argue lol.

It's missing two major things -

Touch screen. The days of the Blackberry are gone. Touch screen and the ability to customize your screen layouts and overlays are HUGE upgrades.

2D sonar quality. The Lowrance broadband 2D sonar is simply better, and when you add in the aftermarket transducers available (Airmar), there is no comparison.

Elite 7TI2 would be the same price at TFH Wall to Wall sale. For $200 more, you're into an Elite 9 TI2 with a touch screen that's 2" larger, that's a no brainer IMHO.

Poppa

08-26-2020, 01:58 PM

EZM

08-26-2020, 02:20 PM

I'm going to argue lol.

It's missing two major things -

Touch screen. The days of the Blackberry are gone. Touch screen and the ability to customize your screen layouts and overlays are HUGE upgrades.

2D sonar quality. The Lowrance broadband 2D sonar is simply better, and when you add in the aftermarket transducers available (Airmar), there is no comparison.

Elite 7TI2 would be the same price at TFH Wall to Wall sale. For $200 more, you're into an Elite 9 TI2 with a touch screen that's 2" larger, that's a no brainer IMHO.

Agree it has no touch screen - correct.

BUT ...can you quantify the "2d sonar is better" does it operate at a different frequency? or in a frequency not available in the hummingbird? is there better target separation? speed of rendering on graphics? It seems to me, based on those 3 things they offer the same capability.

And when you say broadband, I assume you are taking about chirp? because they use the same Hz band modulations and offer the same rates of transmission (pulse).

This technology was developed outside of both Lowrance and Hummingbird 2 decades ago by the military to provide the advantages we see in our units today with clarity.

This unit does have CHIRP.

Not arguing - just asking about this so we can all learn using "objective and data driven" information.

Is there a comparison we can see? Maybe there's more to it? I dunno?

Keep in mind I have both a few series of Hummingbird and a Lowrance HDS unit ……… and I see no discernible difference there at all.

The other point is, anyone can spend the money and upgrade transducers on almost any unit ….. the op asked for a unit under $1000 - and given the fact the unit you recommended was already well above his budget and now you want to add a transducer put this far beyond the scope of the OP's original request.

Heck, if it was $1500 - then I would have another recommendation that does include a touch screen and all of those features - but that's not what he asked for - BUT yes that would make that unit much better - for almost twice the price though ….. see what I mean? (not trying to come off as sarcastic - just making a point here).

Not arguing - just asking ….

Walleyedude

08-26-2020, 03:06 PM

Agree it has no touch screen - correct.

BUT ...can you quantify the "2d sonar is better" does it operate at a different frequency? or in a frequency not available in the hummingbird? is there better target separation? speed of rendering on graphics? It seems to me, based on those 3 things they offer the same capability.

And when you say broadband, I assume you are taking about chirp? because they use the same Hz band modulations and offer the same rates of transmission. (This technology was developed outside of both Lowrance and Hummingbird and both solutions are third party in both companies).

Not arguing - just asking about this so we can all learn using "objective and data driven" information.

There are several key differences, but the single biggest factor is in how each unit goes about rendering the 2D sonar data into the image you see on the screen. That's the "black box" part of the equation that is proprietary to each OEM, and that's where the companies separate themselves.

Lowrance refers to their proprietary software for that job as "Broadband Sonar", they have for a long time now, because frankly, not much has changed in 2D sonar quality other than the addition of processing a CHIRP signal. (Which if you recall, Humminbird initially scoffed at and downplayed before realizing they needed to get onboard or get left behind.) The technology of CHIRP was developed by a third party, but how the CHIRP signal is processed is also proprietary to each OEM as I understand it. Lowrance's technology for rendering the 2D image results in better target acquisition, better target separation, and much better detail in how the sizing and color variation of objects within the water column are displayed.

Another key detail is in how the transducers ping. Lowrance pings in a single frequency (or frequency range for CHIRP) and allows the user to select that frequency. Humminbird may have adopted that in their newer models, I don't really know, but to my knowledge, the Bird units ping at both 83 and 200 at all times. Not a big deal, unless you're running multiple sonar units/transducers, and then it creates interference issues. It's also more noise in the water column at all times.

A Camaro and Corvette have much of the same technology and share many capabilities, but they are not the same when it comes to performance. Simply put, Lowrance 2D paints a better picture than Humminbird. There's really nothing bold or new about that claim, I'd day it's pretty well accepted, including among the guys I know that are diehard Bird users.

The other point is, anyone can spend the money and upgrade transducers on almost any unit ….. the op asked for a unit under $1000 - and given the fact the unit you recommended was already well above his budget and now you want to add a transducer put this far beyond the scope of the OP's original request.

My point was a simple one. The Lowrance unit is capable of being upgraded at any time should the OP choose to. Not all sonar units give you that option, and the ability to modify or improve a product in the future matters to some people. If you're willing to spend $1000 on a sonar unit, these are things that IMHO, are worth taking into account.

On that topic, another BIG benefit of the Elite TI2 that I forgot to mention the first time around, is the ability to link it wirelessly to a second TI2 to share mapping, waypoints, trails, and 2D sonar between units.

I also believe that screen size is king, especially when it comes to getting value out of SI. If you're looking at spending $1000, you're pretty serious about sonar, and I think you owe it to yourself to see what stretching that budget by another $100 or even $200 might get you. I firmly believe you'll never regret sacrificing a couple cases of beer or a couple trips to McDonalds with the family and spending that little bit extra on your sonar unit.

EZM

08-26-2020, 08:33 PM

Agree that screen size is king - I run a 10" and a 9" screen at the helm so I can have a 50/50 split on each unit with 4 different things and they are still big enough to be clear - splitting screens any smaller doesn't give you as much detail to pick out for sure. 100% agree.

The benefit to networking you say with the Elite units exists with every mid range and up unit on every brand and manufacturer. The Birds work in networks with Minn kotta i-pilot and i-pilot link, cannon downriggers, other bird units, and can also be upgraded too - so that's a benefit of any unit over, say, $400 to be honest I think. they also share maps, transducers, trolling motor control, downrigger jogging, deployment, and, of course maps, waypoints, i-pilot tracks, live mapping, etc...

I also use a Lowrance HDS9 unit for additional maps (and chirp). That only comes out on new lakes where community maps exist for my reference. Usually that unit stays unplugged (see comments below) - but not because it isn't a great unit. It is top notch. It just doesn't network with my bow unit, my minnkota, my i-pilot link like all the other stuff does.

And, both units units use the same frequencies BTW (which is the main issue with interference). That's why it's rare that you can run both at exactly the same time and look at them exactly at the same time on the same target.

I also had them on a toggle switch for the transducers - and compared them that way too.

And not to discount what you are saying here because maybe some cheaper units can't process the image (rendering software) as quickly - that's not the case between the Lowrance and the Humminbird - they are both top notch units with outstanding rendering software.

BUT I have used both on my boat at the same time and I will tell you, they are absolutely and nearly identical side by side, real life, right in my boat, with my own eyes.

Thermoclines, two fish stacked tightly together, bait balls, algae in water, foliage and weeds on bottom - they are equal (as long as the sensitivity is matched of course).

I did this several times, to do exactly that, compare the two, to see if or which unit I wanted to use for what and which one was better. I even tested this to 400+ feet of water and it's the same. In deep water you have to toggle transducers back and forth as there is a 100% chance of interference (at least on my boat).

Either way - both are good units - but neither the Lowrance or the Bird is "better" based on what I'm seeing - maybe you have other data, and I'm open and respectful of your knowledge, but, I'm pretty well versed and have specifically experimented with this stuff on my boat and have never seen this proven to be otherwise. I haven't.

Either way, good discussion.

wcbarker

08-26-2020, 08:49 PM

Dont buy Hummingbird I heard that for repair you send to usa.

EZM

08-26-2020, 09:31 PM

Dont buy Hummingbird I heard that for repair you send to usa.

That is incorrect information.

There are authorized repair dealers in every province (probably one in every major city).

There is one in Edmonton, one in BC and one in Quebec that I know of.

The one in Quebec is also a warranty and replacement dealer as well.

https://www.fishntech.com/humminbird_asc.html

Coiloil37

08-27-2020, 04:12 AM

I’ll nitpick a bit myself.

Lowrance and humminbird aren’t even on the map for the best 2d sonar and yes there is a difference between middle and top tier. Furuno owns that market and is found on almost every commercial and charter boat in the salt. The options on their sonar and their processing technology leave the other two mentioned dead in the water. Even their better non chirp 2d sounders give up nothing to any chirp sounder mounted on a boat.

That said, on a lake in the shallow water your fishing and for the species most of you are fishing lowrance and humminbird do just fine. Personally I could take or leave touchscreen. I’ve got both and I couldn’t care either way. Bigger screen size is always better but the lowrance units I’ve been around have horrible resolution and have always been pixilated. The HDS7 on my boat is horrible and is a dedicated chart plotter/NMEA gauge pack these days. I absolutely hate it but it works for what I’m using it for. My old helix 7 gave much clearer picture then any lowrance I’ve owned or seen.

I don’t think anyone has better down imaging then humminbirds mega down imaging. That’s my opinion from what I’ve seen and read. Might be incorrect.

Haven’t played with side imaging much but I think raymarine owns that market from what I’ve seen. Their processing speed is unrivalled and the entire axiom pro line looks very good but three times the price the OP is looking to spend.

If I were the OP I would be looking at Garmin or humminbird but that has a lot to do with my personal dislike of lowrance/simrad.

My humminbird looked like this. Nice clean arches, target separation and worked just fine for 2d sonar in a lake finding suspended fish.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/06241c1600b7a3e6a1ea0eaa1a506ea2.jpg

My lowrance looks like this, some shallow and deeper shots. Pixilated like a 1985 Atari. This is running a 600w airmar transducer.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/4feead292efe946989e2b4f8a217163e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/fbada3c154ff245ba4578c63d1311327.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/eadf0d0e92be4536621bff3efe4c712e.jpg

My small furuno also running a 50/200 600w airmar. One of these days I’ll get a better 1 kw transducer to get some better resolution and depth capability but it works fine out to the 350m I fish in.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/a108696ef91891371a8559b1b874eeb2.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/d05be73d6a47b67a8bdb19740813cc08.jpg

And a black marlin harassing some slimy mackerel on a Garmin. That ones not on my boat but they’re a very popular option with a 1k ducer live baiting marlin from the shallows like this out to the shelf. Where I’m fishing if they aren’t running a furuno it’ll be a Garmin and guys swear by them. Inshore a guy could run the factory ducer and be perfectly happy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200827/b055cae211dd9e9a8a8e44cc2e04dad1.jpg

kingrat

08-27-2020, 07:42 AM

I have been looking at garmin as well, this is awesome information and discussion so far.

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 09:55 AM

And, both units units use the same frequencies BTW (which is the main issue with interference). That's why it's rare that you can run both at exactly the same time and look at them exactly at the same time on the same target.

It's not the fact they're using the same frequencies, it's how the transducers are pinged. Lowrance allows you to ping a single frequency, ie 83 or 200, or low, med, high chirp, or in the case of an Airmar, any custom frequency you want.

Your Bird is pinging both 83 and 200 at all times, that's why you're getting that interference.

As an example, I have 3, sometimes 4 transducers pinging on my boat at all times. I'm running 200, high CHIRP, 105, and generally 83 or low CHIRP. I don't have interference issues unless I'm running 200 and high CHIRP on two transducer side by side, and even then, it's not really an issue.

As another side note, and something that is only available on Lowrance units (HDS Gen 3 or newer), is the ability to use "Live Sonar". I can view any transducer connected to the network at any time on any sonar unit, and the real kicker, I can view any two transducers side by side at the same time. That might not seem like much, but I love it. It's a big advantage for fishing structure, and for having both a wide and narrow cone for finding and targeting fish.

And not to discount what you are saying here because maybe some cheaper units can't process the image (rendering software) as quickly - that's not the case between the Lowrance and the Humminbird - they are both top notch units with outstanding rendering software.

I don't think rendering speed is an issue, it's about quality.

BUT I have used both on my boat at the same time and I will tell you, they are absolutely and nearly identical side by side, real life, right in my boat, with my own eyes.

Thermoclines, two fish stacked tightly together, bait balls, algae in water, foliage and weeds on bottom - they are equal (as long as the sensitivity is matched of course).

I did this several times, to do exactly that, compare the two, to see if or which unit I wanted to use for what and which one was better. I even tested this to 400+ feet of water and it's the same. In deep water you have to toggle transducers back and forth as there is a 100% chance of interference (at least on my boat).

Either way - both are good units - but neither the Lowrance or the Bird is "better" based on what I'm seeing - maybe you have other data, and I'm open and respectful of your knowledge, but, I'm pretty well versed and have specifically experimented with this stuff on my boat and have never seen this proven to be otherwise. I haven't.

Either way, good discussion.

I've done the same, and bounced back and forth in a lot of boats with different sonar setups and guys who know what they're doing and have their sonars setup properly. Without fail in my experience, the Lowrance units produce better 2D results. Garmin is second, Humminbird is third.

Now, if you want to talk SI, I'd give the nod to Bird's Mega without a doubt, but the new Lowrance Active Imaging closed the gap considerably.

At any rate, beyond some technical specs, it becomes subjective, and I guess it really boils down to the eye of the beholder.

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 10:11 AM

58thecat

08-27-2020, 10:37 AM

I like the fish ID on.....kinda makes it into a videao game...entertaining between bites...thx for sharing the information as I am looking to upgrade just don't need all the bells and whistles...7"screen and that down imaging stuff...

HELIX 7- MEGA Down Imaging...?...maybe a possibility...might wait until someone upgrades to take advantage of the savings...don't always need new.

EZM

08-27-2020, 10:53 AM

As another side note, and something that is only available on Lowrance units (HDS Gen 3 or newer), is the ability to use "Live Sonar".

.

What do you mean when you say "only available on Lowrance" units "live sonar" …….. every single sonar or ice fishing flasher unit is capable of, and has live sonar.

That's what sonar is, the signal and sent and received at the speed of sound (virtually in a fraction of a second).

Every single sonar fish finding unit, even $49 units built in china have live Sonar …..and have had it for 50+ years

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 11:08 AM

What do you mean when you say "only available on Lowrance" units "live sonar" …….. every single sonar or ice fishing flasher unit is capable of, and has live sonar.

That's what sonar is, the signal and sent and received at the speed of sound (virtually in a fraction of a second).

Every single sonar fish finding unit, even $49 units built in china have live Sonar …..and have had it for 50+ years

I was referring to Live NETWORK Sonar. It's Lowrance jargon for the ability to view any transducer on the network, on any sonar on the network, at any time, as well as the ability to view multiple transducer sources on the same sonar unit at the same time.

I'm not sure why you think I'd make such a ridiculous claim, apparently you have a pretty low opinion of me lol. If you read the rest of that paragraph, it should have been pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to sonar being "live" or a real time display of the sonar signal on the screen, but I guess I should have been more specific.

EZM

08-27-2020, 01:01 PM

I was referring to Live NETWORK Sonar. It's Lowrance jargon for the ability to view any transducer on the network, on any sonar on the network, at any time, as well as the ability to view multiple transducer sources on the same sonar unit at the same time.

I'm not sure why you think I'd make such a ridiculous claim, apparently you have a pretty low opinion of me lol. If you read the rest of that paragraph, it should have been pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to sonar being "live" or a real time display of the sonar signal on the screen, but I guess I should have been more specific.

Fair enough.

But you are mistaken. You may not be aware of this but the birds do that too for any/all units networked - it's been that way since they introduced the network hub/port back about 15+ years ago.

I can get the minnkota transducer, or any of the three transducers, from any unit, on board "live" to any one of my networked units.

That's not exclusive to Lowrance.

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 01:11 PM

Fair enough.

But you are mistaken. You may not be aware of this but the birds do that too for any/all units networked - it's been that way since they introduced the network hub/port back about 15+ years ago.

I can get the minnkota transducer, or any of the three transducers, from any unit, on board "live" to any one of my networked units.

That's not exclusive to Lowrance.

Man, I really have to be on my game with you. You're a stickler lol.

The part that's exclusive to Lowrance is the ability to view two sonar sources, on a single sonar unit, at the same time. IE, I can look at my bow mount transducer and my transom mount transducer, side by side, at the same time, on the same screen, or view two sonars on the transom, running at different frequencies, side by side, at the same time, on the same screen. Pretty awesome technology. I'd love to seen them expand it so you could run 3 or 4 at the same time.

Coiloil37

08-27-2020, 01:34 PM

What year is that 7"? Looks like a Gen 1 HDS, maybe Gen 2? Pretty unfair to compare today's screens to 10 year old technology. Screen resolution on today's sonar units is largely a wash between all of the major brands, the specs are all essentially identical, so to suggest the Lowrance is inferior is simply inaccurate. In fact, the only standout is the HDS Live series. The HDS Live screen quality, resolution, brightness, and viewing angles are unquestionably a notch above the competition. They're also well out of the OP's desired price range.

No offense lol, but I find it hard to take anyone seriously when they have the Fish ID turned on LOL. :)

The inshore year doesn’t get a pass from me for its inferior technology just because it wasn’t built for the salt. It still doesn’t have the tech built into it that other brands are using. I would accept it’s because they’re built for the average user who doesn’t need the adjustability and tech that discriminating users want.

Yes it’s a gen 2 and yea I think it’s a 2012 or 2013 model. I’ve fished with some newer units and they still haven’t impressed me. It should be dead simple for you to show some of your screen shots to prove your position.
The bird I had was 5-6 years old as well and a heck of a lot less pixilated then the HDS7.

The fish ID is a fair point but I was at the back of the boat running downriggers and driving with the ipilot remote. I wanted the little symbols to be able to see them from 8’ away. It’s a straw man argument so you’ll have to do a little better then that.

EZM

08-27-2020, 01:48 PM

Man, I really have to be on my game with you. You're a stickler lol.

The part that's exclusive to Lowrance is the ability to view two sonar sources, on a single sonar unit, at the same time. IE, I can look at my bow mount transducer and my transom mount transducer, side by side, at the same time, on the same screen, or view two sonars on the transom, running at different frequencies, side by side, at the same time, on the same screen. Pretty awesome technology. I'd love to seen them expand it so you could run 3 or 4 at the same time.

Again, and not to go in circles, and I'm not trying to argumentative here, but, with all do respect, you may not be familiar with all the technology here with the Birds ….

Using my Humminbord Onix Unit, which is 10 years old, I can view my SI transducer, AND my 2d high def, both resident to the Onix, AND My switch-fire transducer, from my 999, AND my minnkota US2 transducers on the same screen, real time, live.

4 sources, 4 different transducers, originating from 3 different units and transducers. I am sure I could add a 4th source, like my bow mount unit as well (if I added yet another transducer somewhere).

I was able to do that in 2013 when I installed these units on day one. That's nothing special.

Don't take my work for it ..... see it for yourself ...…

Networked, the Humminbird owner can control, view, operate, deploy and retract, the minnkota trolling motor, a shallow water anchor like the talon, a cannon downrigger, use I-pilot controller for gas kicker, or any of the sonar units, any transducer, from ANY networked head unit ………. LIVE

Things like live mapping, pre set tracks, waypoints etc.., obviously, are included in that same bundle of compatible products.

see it for yourself ….

https://www.humminbird.com/learn/one-boat-network

Like I have always said, both are good brands with a solid reputation of innovation and quality products. What you choose should depend on what each person wants or needs and what their budget may me. But there is no way anyone can say one unit is better than the next in all areas - as both companies leap frog each other with cool new innovations we all benefit from. (and spend more money on I guess)-lol.

kingrat

08-27-2020, 01:55 PM

Ok I will not be running 2 or more units, and I'm mainly interested in the side and down imaging aspect.

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 02:03 PM

The inshore year doesn’t get a pass from me for its inferior technology just because it wasn’t built for the salt. It still doesn’t have the tech built into it that other brands are using. I would accept it’s because they’re built for the average user who doesn’t need the adjustability and tech that discriminating users want.

You're free to compare apples to oranges, though I'm not sure what the point of it is.

We could all spend 10X what the OP wants to spend and run Furano or B&G units on southern AB puddles, but that seems kinda ridiculous.

Yes it’s a gen 2 and yea I think it’s a 2012 or 2013 model. I’ve fished with some newer units and they still haven’t impressed me. It should be dead simple for you to show some of your screen shots to prove your position.
The bird I had was 5-6 years old as well and a heck of a lot less pixilated then the HDS7.

I never take screen shots, I've never really seen the point of it, so I honestly don't have any. I'll grab a few next time I'm out. In the meantime, the internet is FULL of them, all anyone has to do if they're curious is Google it and they can see for themselves. And no, I'm not going to do that and post internet pics here.

It’s a straw man argument so you’ll have to do a little better then that.

Relax, it wasn't meant as an argument, just poking a little fun lol.

Walleyedude

08-27-2020, 02:10 PM

Again, and not to go in circles, and I'm not trying to argumentative here, but, with all do respect, you may not be familiar with all the technology here with the Birds ….

Using my Humminbord Onix Unit, which is 10 years old, I can view my SI transducer, AND my 2d high def, both resident to the Onix, AND My switch-fire transducer, from my 999, AND my minnkota US2 transducers on the same screen, real time, live.

4 sources, 4 different transducers, originating from 3 different units and transducers. I am sure I could add a 4th source, like my bow mount unit as well (if I added yet another transducer somewhere).

I was able to do that in 2013 when I installed these units on day one. That's nothing special.

Don't take my work for it ..... see it for yourself ...…

Networked, the Humminbird owner can control, view, operate, deploy and retract, the minnkota trolling motor, a shallow water anchor like the talon, a cannon downrigger, use I-pilot controller for gas kicker, or any of the sonar units, any transducer, from ANY networked head unit ………. LIVE

Things like live mapping, pre set tracks, waypoints etc.., obviously, are included in that same bundle of compatible products.

see it for yourself ….

https://www.humminbird.com/learn/one-boat-network

Like I have always said, both are good brands with a solid reputation of innovation and quality products. What you choose should depend on what each person wants or needs and what their budget may me. But there is no way anyone can say one unit is better than the next in all areas - as both companies leap frog each other with cool new innovations we all benefit from. (and spend more money on I guess)-lol.

Well, I learned something today. I didn't realize Bird had that tech.

Is it only available in the Onix/Solix line? I have basically zero experience with those units, everyone I know is running Helix, and granted it's been a while, but they didn't have that tech at the time.

The integration of every imaginable component on a single network that is offered these days is pretty incredible. I'll admit to being a bit of a luddite when it comes that stuff though. I've got it all, but I find that I rarely use it. I have a few sonar screens/setups that are my go to's, I drop the trolling motor in, and I fish. Just a rod in one hand and a remote or a tiller handle in the other.

EZM

08-27-2020, 03:24 PM

Well, I learned something today. I didn't realize Bird had that tech.

Is it only available in the Onix/Solix line? I have basically zero experience with those units, everyone I know is running Helix, and granted it's been a while, but they didn't have that tech at the time.

The integration of every imaginable component on a single network that is offered these days is pretty incredible. I'll admit to being a bit of a luddite when it comes that stuff though. I've got it all, but I find that I rarely use it. I have a few sonar screens/setups that are my go to's, I drop the trolling motor in, and I fish. Just a rod in one hand and a remote or a tiller handle in the other.

The Helix and the legacy 800 and 900 are able to do the Live network. only really old (or super cheap entry level) units can't do it. It's pretty much the "standard" now I think.

But yeah, I have all this technology on the boat, and use half of it maybe. You are right, even with my I-pilot link, and all that connectivity, but my remote is what I actually use anyways too …. lol

The one thing I do, which is pretty cool, is I drop my trolling motor down (minn-kota) and it will live maps (from that front trolling mount transducer) as I'm cruising a shoreline and I can set it to "follow contour 14ft" (on a different transom transducer) and it will steer me along, as it maps and saves, and keeps me right on the drop off as I go. Live mapping, 30 feet in front of you, as you build a track for an area you have never explored before, and no need to steer, ……….that's pretty cool for a lazy guy like me ………..fishing for hours, being on target, and not steering once.

After that you have the track saved, and the map in the unit forever.

The only complaint is you get complacent and trust it too much and you need to pay attention to where you are going as some people like to anchor and fish right on your path …… yikes …. lol …. ask RAVYAK about his little kayak and my boat coming at him …… lol ….. poor guy.

Warmbreeze

08-28-2020, 09:31 AM

Walleyedude

08-28-2020, 10:14 AM

Walleyedude, how do you know Low6 will replace the Elite ti2 soon?

I have been researching for one in the $1000-1500 price point. Wouldn't oppose more if it was getting me that much more.

Mainly want it for auto mapping and side imaging but still want good 2d. 9 inch screen would be nice.

Want to get 5+ years out of it so don't want an old model unless killer deal.

There's a fair bit of talk about it on a number of forums I'm on.

The TI2's came out in 2018, so not super old, but Lowrance does seem to replace/upgrade on a 2-3 year cycle, so something new for 2021 makes sense.

I think you can easily get 5+ years out of any of the electronics being offered these days before they're "obsolete" so to speak. The newest model with the latest and greatest tech is always nice to have, but electronics advance so quickly, you'll be constantly chasing it. Who knows what Lowrance will introduce to replace the TI2, but it'll likely be an evolution, not a revolution. The TI2s are great units, and if they go on sale for a big discount, I wouldn't hesitate to grab one.

EZM

08-28-2020, 10:51 AM

Walleyedude

08-28-2020, 11:25 AM

I think the best thing to do is go out and look at them, consider what else you need to buy ….like zerolines cards for the Bird or the live imaging transducer for the Lowrances (if it doesn't include one).

map card for both - as pre loaded maps - let's be honest - are limited in this part of the world.

Add it up "all in" and pick the best unit at that time.

You are not going to see a HUGE difference between the brands in the end - and take it from me - a guy that runs both and had for years - either brand will work equally well for what 99% of us are doing without any discernible advantage or disadvantage.

All the major brands - Lowrance, Humminbird, Garmin offer multiple packages and options when it comes to adding SI, DI, Mega, LiveScope/Livesight, 360, 3D, etc... It depends on the package, and the small details of how each of them bundles things together, but they're all priced accordingly, and in general, the prices will be very similar when comparing them directly option for option.

Looking at the "all-in" price for the options you want is great advice, it's the only way to get a true apples to apples comparison.

Coiloil37

09-01-2020, 04:32 AM

You're free to compare apples to oranges, though I'm not sure what the point of it is.

We could all spend 10X what the OP wants to spend and run Furano or B&G units on southern AB puddles, but that seems kinda ridiculous.

I never take screen shots, I've never really seen the point of it, so I honestly don't have any. I'll grab a few next time I'm out. In the meantime, the internet is FULL of them, all anyone has to do if they're curious is Google it and they can see for themselves. And no, I'm not going to do that and post internet pics here.

Relax, it wasn't meant as an argument, just poking a little fun lol.

As a general rule I don’t do the back and forth game with guys who are only trying to prove a point as opposed to discuss something with the prospect of learning something but I’ll take another kick at this.

I’m not comparing apples to oranges. My furuno is a <$1000 unit and even at the bottom of the furuno product line you still get access to the best 2d sonar on the market. They’ve got technology built into their units nobody else has at any price point. It’s probably a brand you’ve never used so rather then tell me I’m comparing pickups to frying pans you could read the manual for one or do a quick google (if you were interested in learning something new).

It’s true a furuno with side scan is priced out of the discussion which is why I didn’t bring it up. If a guy wants side scan or down scan at the price point the OP brought up and is fishing lakes (shallow water) your better looking somewhere else.

I’ve fished in boats with the lowrance elite line and I’ve looked at all of the lowrance and simrad units in store. The 2d screens didn’t impress me. You can’t provide a screen shot so I took the liberty of googling it. They’re still not as clear (IMO) as my five year old helix was.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200901/ab016aa0b0161e302c19f0b99782c641.jpg

The birds mega down imaging and side imaging utilise 1000+ kHz and so far as I know are still top dogs on that scene in shallow water. Their screens are clear and the 2d sonar is good enough.
Personally I don’t think the side scan is very good until your into the 12”+ screens but everyone has their own opinion.

If I wanted to spend a grand and fished Alberta it would be a Garmin or humminbird. The Garmins I’ve fished around (all offshore) have impressed the heck out of me. If I moved back to Alberta it’s likely where I would put my money. The only thing that might sway my opinion was how much I liked the bird being linked to my ipilot.

Walleyedude

09-01-2020, 07:02 AM

Walleyedude, how do you know Low6 will replace the Elite ti2 soon?

Saw on another forum this morning that Lowrance dropped the price on the Elite TI2s again, that's a pretty sure fire sign they're going to be upgraded.

12"=$200, 9"=$100, 7"=$50. Those are in USD, so not sure how they'll compare up here.

Walleyedude

09-01-2020, 07:39 AM

As a general rule I don’t do the back and forth game with guys who are only trying to prove a point as opposed to discuss something with the prospect of learning something but I’ll take another kick at this.

I’m not comparing apples to oranges. My furuno is a <$1000 unit and even at the bottom of the furuno product line you still get access to the best 2d sonar on the market. They’ve got technology built into their units nobody else has at any price point. It’s probably a brand you’ve never used so rather then tell me I’m comparing pickups to frying pans you could read the manual for one or do a quick google (if you were interested in learning something new).

It’s true a furuno with side scan is priced out of the discussion which is why I didn’t bring it up. If a guy wants side scan or down scan at the price point the OP brought up and is fishing lakes (shallow water) your better looking somewhere else.

I'm always open to learning new things, so I spent some time Googling the Furuno units. I've only ever seen one in person, it was on the Bass Pro display counter for years, and I have to tell you, it did not impress me.

I'm not sure which unit you have, but this is the nearest unit I could find that would be a direct comparable to the Lowrance and Humminbird units being discussed. It's not capable of SI or DI, so maybe it's not the best comparison, their website isn't the best.

https://www.furunousa.com/en/products/gp1971f

Price is $1350 USD, plus a transducer for another $100 or so. That's around $1900 CDN.

They have some cheaper units, but they're not chart plotters, they're fish finders only. From there, the jump in price to get up to the next level is massive.

I'll be the first one to agree with you that how the sonar signal is processed is definitely a big factor, BUT, when it comes to displaying that signal, the screen resolution is the ultimate limiting factor. The resolution of this unit and the Lowrance TI2 are identical at 800X480 pixels. Both are LCD TFT screens. So, it's fine to say the 2D technology in the Furuno is superior, maybe it is, I have zero experience with them so I can't say, but they're both identical in terms of their ability to display detail.

Unless you can point me to a Furuno unit I'm missing, it would seem that all of the brands, including 'Bird, are running the same, or very nearly the same, screen resolutions in this price range and screen size. So given that, everyone is free to have their preferences, but the specs would suggest they're all very similar.

lmtada

09-01-2020, 08:04 PM

Excellent discussion. I have ipilot. Looks like hummingbird is for me. Now what size? >7”.

Coiloil37

09-02-2020, 05:11 AM

I'm always open to learning new things, so I spent some time Googling the Furuno units. I've only ever seen one in person, it was on the Bass Pro display counter for years, and I have to tell you, it did not impress me.

I'm not sure which unit you have, but this is the nearest unit I could find that would be a direct comparable to the Lowrance and Humminbird units being discussed. It's not capable of SI or DI, so maybe it's not the best comparison, their website isn't the best.

https://www.furunousa.com/en/products/gp1971f

Price is $1350 USD, plus a transducer for another $100 or so. That's around $1900 CDN.

They have some cheaper units, but they're not chart plotters, they're fish finders only. From there, the jump in price to get up to the next level is massive.

I'll be the first one to agree with you that how the sonar signal is processed is definitely a big factor, BUT, when it comes to displaying that signal, the screen resolution is the ultimate limiting factor. The resolution of this unit and the Lowrance TI2 are identical at 800X480 pixels. Both are LCD TFT screens. So, it's fine to say the 2D technology in the Furuno is superior, maybe it is, I have zero experience with them so I can't say, but they're both identical in terms of their ability to display detail.

Unless you can point me to a Furuno unit I'm missing, it would seem that all of the brands, including 'Bird, are running the same, or very nearly the same, screen resolutions in this price range and screen size. So given that, everyone is free to have their preferences, but the specs would suggest they're all very similar.

That’s the entry level furuno. I have the 1871f which is the 7” version of the one you posted. The 7” is about $650 USD street price and the 9” a couple hundred more. The MSRP is a long ways from what they sell for. You are correct though, they are 2d without side scan and down scan. I didn’t explore side scan for a couple reasons specific to me. One, the cheapest I would consider is the raymarine axiom pro and it’s a $3700 sounder. To get side scan with a 1 kw transducer costs more then I want to pay and anything less then a 1kw ducer is useless in the depths I fish. The last reason is the reality that I probably only have a few days a year where it’s calm enough to actually use it. Some of the pricier models have stabilisers built in but again your paying for it and most will be pushing $10k.

One of the things I wanted from the furuno was the ability to look at the top 50-70m of water without the sounder looking for the bottom. The furuno can process that top section of water and give me the returns I’m looking for even if I’m sitting over a couple thousand meters of water. Most sounder brands can isolate the top section of the water column but the sounder is still waiting for the ping to come back from the bottom and they struggle giving the picture I want and marking fish in the top of the water column.
I also wanted their bottom discrimination to tell me if the bottom is sand/gravel/mud or rock because some of the fish I target are found on certain types of bottom composition and bait like yakkas that I need for livies aren’t found over sand if there’s any swell because the sand particles irritate their gills.
They have a few other features I wanted like accufish where I can make the returns a different colour based on their size so I knew what type/size of fish are showing up. The white line for the bottom so I can see cod, grouper and flathead laying directly on the bottom. The rezboost and the bottom lock. If I’m hammering away on bottom fish I typically run split screen with the left side zoomed in on the bottom 5 meters of water. I also occasionally run 50 hz on the left for the wider cone and 200 on the right. One of these days I’ll also exploit the fact I can put a 1kw ducer on it with adjustable frequency and choose how many Hz I’m pinging because certain fish show up better with the ducer pinging on a certain frequency (like tuna).

Now, none of that is relevant in Alberta but I only stuck my nose in here because I was discussing how there is a difference in 2d technology.

kingrat

09-02-2020, 07:57 AM

Excellent discussion. I have ipilot. Looks like hummingbird is for me. Now what size? >7”.

I can say that almost everyone despite the brand opinion differences has said to buy the biggest screen you can afford.

CptnBlues63

09-02-2020, 08:39 AM

If I were the OP I would be looking at Garmin or humminbird but that has a lot to do with my personal dislike of lowrance/simrad.

My lowrance looks like this, some shallow and deeper shots. Pixilated like a 1985 Atari. This is running a 600w airmar transducer.

Ok, you're biased against Lowrance. At least you're honest and admit that.

I'm not biased for or against any particular depth finder but I own a Lowrance HDS5 with nav chip. I own that because I bought it used off my bro for a killer good price. It's nice too that it came with all his waypoints for all the lakes he's fished on in SK ;)

The images you posted above from your Lowrance are nothing like what I see on mine. The images I see on my Lowrance look more like the images you posted from your Humminbird (without the cutesy little fish icons) My images are sharp and clear and not at all pixilated.

Is it possible there's something wrong with your Lowrance that it's producing such lousy images?

Walleyedude

09-02-2020, 08:58 AM

One of the things I wanted from the furuno was the ability to look at the top 50-70m of water without the sounder looking for the bottom. The furuno can process that top section of water and give me the returns I’m looking for even if I’m sitting over a couple thousand meters of water. Most sounder brands can isolate the top section of the water column but the sounder is still waiting for the ping to come back from the bottom and they struggle giving the picture I want and marking fish in the top of the water column.

That's definitely a cool feature. I've never tried anything like that, so I don't know if the higher end Lowrance/Humminbird units are capable of that or not. I suspect you'd have to make the jump to Simrad/B&G that are focused on the salt.

I also wanted their bottom discrimination to tell me if the bottom is sand/gravel/mud or rock because some of the fish I target are found on certain types of bottom composition and bait like yakkas that I need for livies aren’t found over sand if there’s any swell because the sand particles irritate their gills.

How does it differentiate and display that?

All sonars can give you a very good idea of bottom composition simply by interpreting the strength of the bottom return signal. Solid thin yellow line = rock, thicker yellow band with maybe a bit of red equals sand, and thick red band = mud (at least on my preferred color scheme). Sand/mud transitions are very easy to recognize once you get your eye trained to it, and rock is always obvious.

They have a few other features I wanted like accufish where I can make the returns a different colour based on their size so I knew what type/size of fish are showing up.

If you dial in your colorline settings, you can do this with a Lowrance, and I would assume the 'Bird as well, pretty easily. I can very accurately tell you how big the fish is under the boat just by interpreting the size and color of the arch/line. Everything with sonar is shades of grey though, because where the fish is in the sonar cone also really affects the strength of the return. Maybe Furuno found a way to account for that in the software, but I'd be surprised.

The white line for the bottom so I can see cod, grouper and flathead laying directly on the bottom. The rezboost and the bottom lock. If I’m hammering away on bottom fish I typically run split screen with the left side zoomed in on the bottom 5 meters of water. I also occasionally run 50 hz on the left for the wider cone and 200 on the right. One of these days I’ll also exploit the fact I can put a 1kw ducer on it with adjustable frequency and choose how many Hz I’m pinging because certain fish show up better with the ducer pinging on a certain frequency (like tuna).

How well do you think the white line to mark the bottom actually works?

I'm curious because differentiating fish from bottom is the toughest thing we ask our sonars to do. Determining whether that subtle bump is a rock or a walleye that's belly to the bottom can be a real challenge in 25' of water, let alone 250' of water. I don't think I would trust the sonar unit software to get that right most of the time. Maybe it would be better at it than I am though lol.

Now, none of that is relevant in Alberta but I only stuck my nose in here because I was discussing how there is a difference in 2d technology.

I think it's all relevant. It certainly shows where technology is going, and all of those features could easily be applied here.

Walleyedude

09-02-2020, 08:59 AM

I can say that almost everyone despite the brand opinion differences has said to buy the biggest screen you can afford.

Yep, absolutely.

lmtada

09-02-2020, 02:58 PM

I can say that almost everyone despite the brand opinion differences has said to buy the biggest screen you can afford.

I have big Scuba Mask.......

EZM

09-02-2020, 03:24 PM

Excellent discussion. I have ipilot. Looks like hummingbird is for me. Now what size? >7”.

Here's my advice I would give any of my friends ......... buy the best unit you can in your budget ......with the biggest screen you can

I would insist that GPS, 2d Sonar, DI (down imaging) multiple card slots, networking would be MUST HAVES for most guys.

SI (side imaging) or MEGA imaging is a "great option" but it comes at a price.

If you fish lakers, or deep water SI is awesome - you can troll a line, see fish out to the left (or right) up to 120' or more with some units - make a pass and turn around and troll your gear over them .... that's where SI shines for me.

MEGA imaging is even better because it looks like it will do that in all directions like 360 with the very best possible results with current technology.

Regarding SI - I don't use it a bunch in shallow water to be honest ..... does show targets, and tells you what's there, but it's a "nice to have". It's on my screen all the time, bit it's not as "critical" as the map/gps, 2d, or DI splits I'm looking at.

For many - It may boil down to bigger screen with No SI over a smaller full featured unit but it depends on how you fish.

And because you have i-pilot (or i-pilot link) the Bird is the way to go.

EZM

09-02-2020, 03:44 PM

How well do you think the white line to mark the bottom actually works?

I'm curious because differentiating fish from bottom is the toughest thing we ask our sonars to do. Determining whether that subtle bump is a rock or a walleye that's belly to the bottom can be a real challenge in 25' of water, let alone 250' of water. I don't think I would trust the sonar unit software to get that right most of the time. Maybe it would be better at it than I am though lol.

My Bird Onix can quite easily differentiate a fish hugging the bottom versus a rock without any issue whatsoever. Even in over 200' of water. No problem.

Granted, the Onix unit isn't the standard product line for the birds and it was significantly more expensive - but my Onix unit is 2 gens older than the current Helix line so I have to assume all the new units would be capable of the same (at the right frequency and sensitivity settings) wouldn't they?

I am shocked that any modern unit couldn't simply tell the difference between densities of objects ...

Using my Onix, which literally has a "round dial" on the unit, I can be over a weed bed and see weeds, turn the dial down, low density weeds disappear then I see the fish within those weeds and the bottom - or I can do the same dialing the bottom to see the fish (lower density color setting with air bladders maybe? versus rocks or other debris).

I thought this was something the units could do to (although it may not have a "dial" and maybe a menu option or something????)

lmtada

09-02-2020, 04:36 PM

Here's my advice I would give any of my friends ......... buy the best unit you can in your budget ......with the biggest screen you can

I would insist that GPS, 2d Sonar, DI (down imaging) multiple card slots, networking would be MUST HAVES for most guys.

SI (side imaging) or MEGA imaging is a "great option" but it comes at a price.

If you fish lakers, or deep water SI is awesome - you can troll a line, see fish out to the left (or right) up to 120' or more with some units - make a pass and turn around and troll your gear over them .... that's where SI shines for me.

MEGA imaging is even better because it looks like it will do that in all directions like 360 with the very best possible results with current technology.

Regarding SI - I don't use it a bunch in shallow water to be honest ..... does show targets, and tells you what's there, but it's a "nice to have". It's on my screen all the time, bit it's not as "critical" as the map/gps, 2d, or DI splits I'm looking at.

For many - It may boil down to bigger screen with No SI over a smaller full featured unit but it depends on how you fish.

And because you have i-pilot (or i-pilot link) the Bird is the way to go.

I will look into it. Thank You. 🍻

Walleyedude

09-15-2020, 08:35 AM

I actually remembered to take a couple screen shots when I was out last week. Hopefully the image quality comes through. There's a couple captures of the transition from sand/silt to the basinal muds, which was something discussed above. The other two are random fish marks when I happened to remember to hit the screen shot button. The last one with the big arc on the cloud of bait was a 9.5lb walleye. :)

Coiloil37

09-15-2020, 03:20 PM

Walleyedude

09-15-2020, 03:41 PM

Display quality is as I expected.

Chasing some clarification here on your perception of sand and mud. Which is which (side for side)?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200915/b81c249497fbf057c361569fc882f820.jpg

Furuno has bottom discrimination which depicts it like this on the bottom of the screen. I have the luxury of being able to see the bottom to about 30m of water so it’s easy enough to look over the side to see if it’s lying to me and it’s always been spot on. In deeper water I’ve often got a gopro down there and check things that way.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200915/b249278a9c1d17d69faca03a98c0099b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200915/1587971b2a2649f331ff00803a1f95a2.jpg

Mud is left, sand is right. You can actually see where the mud onlaps the previous sandy/hard bottom as the lake bed slowly fills with silt/mud.

Beauty is in in the eye of the beholder as they say. To my eye, the display quality of the Lowrance is definitely superior.

The sand/gravel/mud bar is interesting, but to be honest, it does nothing for me.

Curado

09-15-2020, 04:08 PM

This has been an informative thread! I’m also looking to purchase a top notch fishfinder for my Cumberland float tube in the $1000 price range. I’ve done a LOT of research & I really like the Humminbird Helix 7 Chirp Mega SI gps g3n. Size does matter & although it’s overkill now, I may be moving up to a Hobie Mirage Pro Angler 360 drive kayak. :sHa_shakeshout:

https://humminbird.johnsonoutdoors.com/fish-finders/helix/helix-7-chirp-mega-si-gps-g3n

Coiloil37

09-15-2020, 04:12 PM

Mud is left, sand is right. You can actually see where the mud onlaps the previous sandy/hard bottom as the lake bed slowly fills with silt/mud.

Beauty is in in the eye of the beholder as they say. To my eye, the display quality of the Lowrance is definitely superior.

The sand/gravel/mud bar is interesting, but to be honest, it does nothing for me.

I agree With your assessment. I had to clarify because way you wrote it twice lead me to believe you interpreted it the opposite way.

Correct. My bottom of the range furuno running a non chirp, $120 ducer is not “that” good. When I upgrade to a 1kw chirp transducer I’ll get better returns and until then I’ll deal with what I’ve got. However, the lowrance imo isn’t on par with my old bird but that’s hard to quantify because you’ve got the gain set a little higher then I did (as it should be) and I had all the weak returns filtered out. However I was in 150’ of water and showing both bait and fish with crystal clarity so I still preferred what I had.

You and I fish different water and it’s pretty well impossible for me to distinguish between sand/gravel/rock based on bottom return. I’ve never seen a muddy bottom here so I’ll leave that out. Can you discern the difference based on bottom return in either of my pictures? The difference on where to find fish or bait is night and day though so it helps me.

pikergolf

09-15-2020, 05:48 PM

Ok guys wrap it up. We need a consensus, I am very interested. :)

Coiloil37

09-15-2020, 06:56 PM

All sonars can give you a very good idea of bottom composition simply by interpreting the strength of the bottom return signal. Solid thin yellow line = rock, thicker yellow band with maybe a bit of red equals sand, and thick red band = mud (at least on my preferred color scheme). Sand/mud transitions are very easy to recognize once you get your eye trained to it, and rock is always obvious.

If you dial in your colorline settings, you can do this with a Lowrance, and I would assume the 'Bird as well, pretty easily. I can very accurately tell you how big the fish is under the boat just by interpreting the size and color of the arch/line. Everything with sonar is shades of grey though, because where the fish is in the sonar cone also really affects the strength of the return. Maybe Furuno found a way to account for that in the software, but I'd be surprised..

The first paragraph is where I’m confused what your trying to say. Harder bottoms display stronger returns. The sonar penetrates harder bottoms and displays a thicker, stronger return vs being absorbed by a soft bottom and displaying a thinner, different colour return. On your sounder the mud is depicted as blue and the red/yellow is harder. The way you wrote it suggests you interpret it the opposite way.
The return however changes based on speed, sounder gain and depth. If your running in manual and the gain remains the same, you could troll up a ledge where the depth is getting shallower and the bottom return can look thicker even though the bottom composition didn’t change. Run it in auto and it’s even harder to judge because you don’t know what adjustments it’s making while your moving. Change your speed over ground and it’ll change again. Lots of variables at play.

The second paragraph. Sure, you could think so but I find it difficult when the change is subtle or I’m fishing a variety of depths. I can pick a 3m long target like a shark or marlin from a 1m kingfish or tuna when they’re at similar depths but when your fishing everything from 5m to 450m with changes in sounder settings, zoom, boat speed, scroll speed, possibly isolating the top or bottom of the water column, etc. it gets difficult. On a 7” display in 150m of water a 1m long tuna at 20m can look very similar to a 2m long shark down at 140m all in the same picture. I just have mine notify me for targets over 40” regardless of depth or sounder settings and then I evaluate them as required to decide what they are.
I don’t go to a reef in 80m and have it separate by colour the different targets in
10cm slots although I could. I simply don’t care enough to do it that way. I find the bait with some fish showing and get hooks or a GoPro down to tell me what they are. If I start pulling up fish I don’t want I move.
When I’m trolling, say I’m looking at 150m of water, I just want it to easily indicate the larger targets regardless of if I’m in manual or auto, what speed I’m trolling or what frequency I’m on and then I’ll decide what I want to do about it.

EZM

09-15-2020, 09:27 PM

Ok guys wrap it up. We need a consensus, I am very interested. :)

If someone has (or will soon have) a minnkota electric motor with i-pilot or I pilot link it's a pretty easy decision really .........

Only a hummingbird will allow you control your minnkota from the helm, trace a path, follow a track, follow a contour, take you home or whatever and set your speed and pilot you around - a Lowrance won't

You can control your i-pilot motor from the helm with a hummingbird - lowrance won't

You can use your transducer which is housed in your minnkota (all bigger units have a transducer) under your trolling motor and display that on any of your hummingbird units - you can't display it on a Lowrance.

You can use Mega 360 imaging from your minnkota motor (either equipped with or added to it) to get 360 imaging on your hummingbird unit - a lowrance can't

To say a Lowrance is significantly better (or worse) compared to a equally priced and featured bird is simply not true.

I have both on my boat. Side by side.

Coiloil37

09-15-2020, 10:33 PM

Walleyedude

09-16-2020, 06:59 AM

The first paragraph is where I’m confused what your trying to say. Harder bottoms display stronger returns. The sonar penetrates harder bottoms and displays a thicker, stronger return vs being absorbed by a soft bottom and displaying a thinner, different colour return. On your sounder the mud is depicted as blue and the red/yellow is harder. The way you wrote it suggests you interpret it the opposite way.
The return however changes based on speed, sounder gain and depth. If your running in manual and the gain remains the same, you could troll up a ledge where the depth is getting shallower and the bottom return can look thicker even though the bottom composition didn’t change. Run it in auto and it’s even harder to judge because you don’t know what adjustments it’s making while your moving. Change your speed over ground and it’ll change again. Lots of variables at play.

When I read it again, I don't get that, but I guess maybe it isn't clear. If you use that capture, you can clearly see mud vs sand, if you get into rock, the yellow band will be much thinner, and you'll often see an echo underneath it. I wish I had grabbed a capture of the rocks we were fishing.

Changing depth doesn't have much impact on the how the bottom return strength displays, especially if you look at it somewhat qualitatively rather than purely quantitatively. Speed has some effect, and of course, your settings have some effect. All the Furuno unit is doing is measuring the return strength and assigning a color to it on your bottom composition bar, it's just a different way of displaying the same thing. You trust the software to take into account all the variables you've mentioned and do a better job than your eye, fair enough.

The second paragraph. Sure, you could think so but I find it difficult when the change is subtle or I’m fishing a variety of depths. I can pick a 3m long target like a shark or marlin from a 1m kingfish or tuna when they’re at similar depths but when your fishing everything from 5m to 450m with changes in sounder settings, zoom, boat speed, scroll speed, possibly isolating the top or bottom of the water column, etc. it gets difficult. On a 7” display in 150m of water a 1m long tuna at 20m can look very similar to a 2m long shark down at 140m all in the same picture. I just have mine notify me for targets over 40” regardless of depth or sounder settings and then I evaluate them as required to decide what they are.
I don’t go to a reef in 80m and have it separate by colour the different targets in 10cm slots although I could. I simply don’t care enough to do it that way. I find the bait with some fish showing and get hooks or a GoPro down to tell me what they are. If I start pulling up fish I don’t want I move.
When I’m trolling, say I’m looking at 150m of water, I just want it to easily indicate the larger targets regardless of if I’m in manual or auto, what speed I’m trolling or what frequency I’m on and then I’ll decide what I want to do about it.

You like the fish symbols. I know I poked you about it, but to each their own, no big deal. I could turn them on too, I just choose not to. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I like to think I can get more out of reading the display than the computer software.

Walleyedude

09-16-2020, 07:09 AM

If someone has (or will soon have) a minnkota electric motor with i-pilot or I pilot link it's a pretty easy decision really .........

Only a hummingbird will allow you control your minnkota from the helm, trace a path, follow a track, follow a contour, take you home or whatever and set your speed and pilot you around - a Lowrance won't

You can control your i-pilot motor from the helm with a hummingbird - lowrance won't

You can use your transducer which is housed in your minnkota (all bigger units have a transducer) under your trolling motor and display that on any of your hummingbird units - you can't display it on a Lowrance.

You can use Mega 360 imaging from your minnkota motor (either equipped with or added to it) to get 360 imaging on your hummingbird unit - a lowrance can't

To say a Lowrance is significantly better (or worse) compared to a equally priced and featured bird is simply not true.

I have both on my boat. Side by side.

Since we're playing this game, this point isn't 100% true. There's an inexpensive adapter cable that will allow you to connect the US2 2D sonar built into the MinnKota motors to any Lowrance sonar unit. There isn't an option to display DI/SI that I'm aware of though.

I get the trolling motor connection thing, but I'd love to see an honest poll or research on how many people actually use those features, especially on a consistent basis. After fishing the Rowans tourney for a week, I'd guess the percentage among those boats was very low. Maybe I'm a luddite, but I've got my Motorguide linked, and I pretty much never control it from the sonar units, other than to use the "go to waypoint" feature occasionally. It just doesn't fit the way I fish. If I didn't hate the layout of the MinnKota remote (which is where 99% of time is spent) so much, I'd probably have a Terrova or an Ulterra on my boat.

As for your last point, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree lol.

Walleyedude

09-16-2020, 07:21 AM

I’m still not sure how you can argue the clarity of the bird vs the lowrance. To me the birds display takes the cake and the lowrance looks pixilated. Add in the trolling motor control and the fact I had them linked to my cannon downriggers and it’s pretty simple if those are the only two your considering.

Just ignore the fish symbols and look at the returns on the screen.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/51209d72f1bebd82693bd8eca0e87bf7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/5d2eedbd4314e79d92cc67ce7dc7fb66.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/8570e3377edb6f87a813764a36743114.jpg

And another blurry pic snipped out of a video

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/d4e1df132012d95eb8524e40882a7ff5.jpg

I'm doing that, and I gotta tell you, looking at those pictures, I'm not sure why we're arguing either, the Lowrance looks clearly better to me in every aspect.

Pixelation is the same, remember, they're the same screen resolution, they sure look the same to me. Keep in mind, I had the sensitivity dialed up which causes the "cloudiness" in the water column.

Fish arch identification and target separation is very clear on the Lowrance, it's washed out and "thin" on the Bird, and unfortunately the fish symbols block out some of that info. The sensitivity is also turned way down on the Bird, so it's hard to compare.

Screen brightness and clarity isn't even close, add in the effectiveness of the color palette, and Lowrance is painting a better picture.

Now granted, my screenshots are from an HDS Live unit, not an Elite TI2, but I'm really not seeing what you're seeing.

We both have our biases, and we'll never agree, so no point discussing this aspect any further. Agree to disagree.

kingrat

09-16-2020, 04:58 PM

awesome discussion, pretty sure ive decided on the humminbird helix 7 with mega si and mega di just waiting for a killer sale because i missed the fishin hole one.

Coiloil37

09-16-2020, 07:06 PM

When I read it again, I don't get that, but I guess maybe it isn't clear. If you use that capture, you can clearly see mud vs sand, if you get into rock, the yellow band will be much thinner, and you'll often see an echo underneath it. I wish I had grabbed a capture of the rocks we were fishing.

Changing depth doesn't have much impact on the how the bottom return strength displays, especially if you look at it somewhat qualitatively rather than purely quantitatively. Speed has some effect, and of course, your settings have some effect. All the Furuno unit is doing is measuring the return strength and assigning a color to it on your bottom composition bar, it's just a different way of displaying the same thing. You trust the software to take into account all the variables you've mentioned and do a better job than your eye, fair enough.

You like the fish symbols. I know I poked you about it, but to each their own, no big deal. I could turn them on too, I just choose not to. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I like to think I can get more out of reading the display than the computer software.

Changing depth, speed or gain does make a difference. You probably don’t see it the way I do because we are fishing vastly different waterbodies.

Bottom composition. It’s pretty easy to see a soft mud transition to something harder. Much more difficult when your changing from clean hard sand bottoms to gravel and rock. Coral is easier to pick out as is wire weed. Regardless. Tell me exactly where on this shot I went from sand to gravel and then try and convince me you could do that without fail on the water. And this is an easy one, I’m almost never fishing in less then 60m of water and it’s usually over 100m.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200917/117ca6cb56feab59a877384fc74d002b.jpg

Yes I do trust the software because it works. Not only can you research it to see if it works but I can troll around and watch the bottom and the sounder and see that it indicates the correct bottom composition. It takes some of the guessing out of the equation.

No I don’t like the fish symbols. I like to be notified when a potential target is identified so I don’t have to try and deduce what every spec on the screen is. Fishing big game especially solo is busy and I don’t have the time a guy does when he’s trolling a single line at 2km/h on a lake for a walleye. Between driving the boat and watching each lures surface action while trolling six lines at an average of 15 km/h but up to 40km/h , making sure I don’t get any tangles, watching for fish in the spread, bird action, bait action, floating debris, observing every rod tip and outrigger for a potential tap so I can drop baits back to inquisitive fish, keeping an eye on the seas swell and chop, current lines, current direction, maintaining optimal SOG, looking for bait slicks, temp breaks, map position, the two 5 and 7 year old boys I take with me doing god knows what, the outboards bubble trail and where the dredges and lures are running in relationship to the white water ETC. I usually just let the sounder notify me when there’s a potential target under the boat. So in that regard yes I like it when it says “hey there’s a 40+” fish under you”. I arbitrarily chose 40” because anything that size and larger may be something I care to catch.

In regard to your other post about the clarity of the bird vs the lowrance. Your last post put it together for me. What your calling clearly defined arches I’m calling pixilated. To me it looks like it was drawn with a crayon vs the humminbird looks like it was drawn with a drafting pencil. I don’t like the lowrance depiction on screen but I’ll revisit that if I get cataracts. I’m perfectly happy to agree to disagree.

The difference in 2d sonar discussion took some interesting turns. Furuno has a lot of other tech built into their units that I’m happy using in the water I’m fishing. I’m not interested in the back and forth or trying to explain it all. If your ever on a charter or commercial boat in a first world country you’ll probably notice a furuno on the dash and perhaps you’ll spark a conversation with the captain about what it offers him. If not, forums like thehulltruth and bloodydecks have guys discussing furuno and why they’re a superior unit and installed on the vast majority of serious offshore boats (commercial or recreational).

I think I’m going to go buy a Garmin this afternoon and throw it on the boat this weekend. I want to see how the side scan works offshore.

Walleyedude

09-16-2020, 08:00 PM

Changing depth, speed or gain does make a difference. You probably don’t see it the way I do because we are fishing vastly different waterbodies.

Bottom composition. It’s pretty easy to see a soft mud transition to something harder. Much more difficult when your changing from clean hard sand bottoms to gravel and rock. Coral is easier to pick out as is wire weed. Regardless. Tell me exactly where on this shot I went from sand to gravel and then try and convince me you could do that without fail on the water. And this is an easy one, I’m almost never fishing in less then 60m of water and it’s usually over 100m.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200917/117ca6cb56feab59a877384fc74d002b.jpg

Yes I do trust the software because it works. Not only can you research it to see if it works but I can troll around and watch the bottom and the sounder and see that it indicates the correct bottom composition. It takes some of the guessing out of the equation.

No I don’t like the fish symbols. I like to be notified when a potential target is identified so I don’t have to try and deduce what every spec on the screen is. Fishing big game especially solo is busy and I don’t have the time a guy does when he’s trolling a single line at 2km/h on a lake for a walleye. Between driving the boat and watching each lures surface action while trolling six lines at an average of 15 km/h but up to 40km/h , making sure I don’t get any tangles, watching for fish in the spread, bird action, bait action, floating debris, observing every rod tip and outrigger for a potential tap so I can drop baits back to inquisitive fish, keeping an eye on the seas swell and chop, current lines, current direction, maintaining optimal SOG, looking for bait slicks, temp breaks, map position, the two 5 and 7 year old boys I take with me doing god knows what, the outboards bubble trail and where the dredges and lures are running in relationship to the white water ETC. I usually just let the sounder notify me when there’s a potential target under the boat. So in that regard yes I like it when it says “hey there’s a 40+” fish under you”. I arbitrarily chose 40” because anything that size and larger may be something I care to catch.

In regard to your other post about the clarity of the bird vs the lowrance. Your last post put it together for me. What your calling clearly defined arches I’m calling pixilated. To me it looks like it was drawn with a crayon vs the humminbird looks like it was drawn with a drafting pencil. I don’t like the lowrance depiction on screen but I’ll revisit that if I get cataracts. I’m perfectly happy to agree to disagree.

The difference in 2d sonar discussion took some interesting turns. Furuno has a lot of other tech built into their units that I’m happy using in the water I’m fishing. I’m not interested in the back and forth or trying to explain it all. If your ever on a charter or commercial boat in a first world country you’ll probably notice a furuno on the dash and perhaps you’ll spark a conversation with the captain about what it offers him. If not, forums like thehulltruth and bloodydecks have guys discussing furuno and why they’re a superior unit and installed on the vast majority of serious offshore boats (commercial or recreational).

I think I’m going to go buy a Garmin this afternoon and throw it on the boat this weekend. I want to see how the side scan works offshore.

I’ve never looked at a Furuno screen, so there‘s no way for me to guess how it displays bottom. I couldn’t tell you where the change is. I’d like to think I could get you real close reading my Lowrance screen, but maybe, maybe not.

If you’d rather see thinner fish arches, its easily done with the user settings. Simply turn down the sensitivity, adjust the colorline, or just increase the scroll speed. It really is up to the individual user and preference. I have mine set to my preference that allows me to determine fish size and their relative position in the sonar cone. IMHO, there‘s more info there than in a thin pencil line.

The rest of your post is interesting, but I don’t really have any comment on it, doesn’t much apply to my world.

EZM

09-16-2020, 08:52 PM

Since we're playing this game, this point isn't 100% true. There's an inexpensive adapter cable that will allow you to connect the US2 2D sonar built into the MinnKota motors to any Lowrance sonar unit. There isn't an option to display DI/SI that I'm aware of though.

I get the trolling motor connection thing, but I'd love to see an honest poll or research on how many people actually use those features, especially on a consistent basis. After fishing the Rowans tourney for a week, I'd guess the percentage among those boats was very low. Maybe I'm a luddite, but I've got my Motorguide linked, and I pretty much never control it from the sonar units, other than to use the "go to waypoint" feature occasionally. It just doesn't fit the way I fish. If I didn't hate the layout of the MinnKota remote (which is where 99% of time is spent) so much, I'd probably have a Terrova or an Ulterra on my boat.

As for your last point, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree lol.

I'm not playing any game here - I was giving my opinion based on facts.

My point was .... If you have a MinnKota motor already (or want to get that brand), then plug and play any Humminbird unit, or your cannon downrigger, etc... into it and you are good to go.

Humminbird markets it as the Total "one boat" network. View, control, any of your transducers, motors, downriggers on any screen. plug and play.

It's not that hard to see the value there is there?

Seems pretty simple. Seems like honest advice to me.

Nothing here to play games with or disagree with - it's fact. It's pretty simple really.

Walleyedude

09-16-2020, 09:14 PM

I'm not playing any game here - I was giving my opinion based on facts.

My point was .... If you have a MinnKota motor already (or want to get that brand), then plug and play any Humminbird unit, or your cannon downrigger, etc... into it and you are good to go.

Humminbird markets it as the Total "one boat" network. View, control, any of your transducers, motors, downriggers on any screen. plug and play.

It's not that hard to see the value there is there?

Seems pretty simple. Seems like honest advice to me.

Nothing here to play games with or disagree with - it's fact. It's pretty simple really.

You need to lighten up a little EZM. Don’t take everything so literally and personally. I meant nothing by that other than simply we’ve been going back and forth pointing out details about the tech.

This has really reached an end for me. Thanks for the discussion all.

pikergolf

09-17-2020, 12:17 PM

Ok guys wrap it up. We need a consensus, I am very interested. :)

Ok I'll ask. 14ft tinner, 20hp, max depth 45 ft. Needs GPS, DI, making a map would be nice but not a need.Just a transducer out the back. Is this a good unit for me?

HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA DI GPS G3

SamSteele

09-17-2020, 01:19 PM

Ok I'll ask. 14ft tinner, 20hp, max depth 45 ft. Needs GPS, DI, making a map would be nice but not a need.Just a transducer out the back. Is this a good unit for me?

HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA DI GPS G3

Yep! I would probably look at making it portable unless you have a starting battery to run off of. You can also add the ice transducer and use it as a flasher. Nice having the maps you made in the summer available to you in the winter too.

I have a Helix 5 CHIRP GPS G2 PT that I use in my 12' tinner, as well as ice fishing. I've used it in depths up to 130 ft on Cold in the winter and it reads better than the Marcum VX-1 flasher I have. I also added a Dakota Lithium battery, which cut the unit weight in half and added longer run times.

pikergolf

09-17-2020, 02:20 PM

Yep! I would probably look at making it portable unless you have a starting battery to run off of. You can also add the ice transducer and use it as a flasher. Nice having the maps you made in the summer available to you in the winter too.

I have a Helix 5 CHIRP GPS G2 PT that I use in my 12' tinner, as well as ice fishing. I've used it in depths up to 130 ft on Cold in the winter and it reads better than the Marcum VX-1 flasher I have. I also added a Dakota Lithium battery, which cut the unit weight in half and added longer run times.

Yes I make my finders portable. Emergency lighting batteries work great. Will look into a Dakota Lithium. You can use that finder as a flasher? or are you talking using the leading edge of the scroll?

SamSteele

09-17-2020, 02:28 PM

Yes I make my finders portable. Emergency lighting batteries work great. Will look into a Dakota Lithium. You can use that finder as a flasher? or are you talking using the leading edge of the scroll?

It has an “Ice mode” that lets you use it as a flasher or a sonar, or split screen both. There are a lot of different views.

I did a video of mine on the ice that may be helpful for you to see all the views.

https://youtu.be/an8F0372kR8

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coiloil37

09-17-2020, 05:58 PM

Well I picked up a Garmin echomap 75SV yesterday for $600 with a GT52HW-TM transducer. The Gt51 ducer would give me better depth capability but I’ll give this a try. If it works offshore I might buy a 9-12” new UHD Garmin and then centre mount it in the dash then put the furuno up on top and sell the lowrance. Currently I don’t have any room in the dash to fit the furuno next to the new Garmin without getting out the grinder and taking a bit more out of the boats glass which I don’t want to do right now.

I’ll leave these two here

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200917/d2545039d66b003bbd1fb00d6188ca06.jpg

And put the Garmin to the left up where my gopro mounts.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200917/6346cf803a34d4c32ebb0d904aa4076b.jpg

The lowrance transducer will be replaced with the Garmins as I never use the lowrance ducer anymore anyway.

End goal would be able to effectively use the side scan on the couple days a year when it’s not to rough to get a decent picture and find some bait schools and terrain. Luckily the guy who sold it was local to me and I noticed when I powered it up he left all of his marks on the chart plotter so I’ve got a few more places to check out.

I’ll throw some pics and my opinion in the thread after I’ve got some time with this unit.

EZM

09-17-2020, 06:49 PM

Ok I'll ask. 14ft tinner, 20hp, max depth 45 ft. Needs GPS, DI, making a map would be nice but not a need.Just a transducer out the back. Is this a good unit for me?

HELIX 7 CHIRP MEGA DI GPS G3

That unit will already have the GPS and mapping on it - so use it if you want but there is value there that once you start using it - you will see how it will, guaranteed, put you on more fish, more consistently far quicker than without it. Guaranteed.

It's an outstanding choice.

You can waypoint (one button push) that will mark a spot on a lake. It could be a great drop off, a pile of rocks, or where you have caught fish before. Really easy to use and pays dividends, as getting back to the same "exact spot" along a shelf or drop off is impossible otherwise.

The mapping is easy to - turn it on and forget about it. If you want to ever see the structure you trolled, drifted or drove over - it's real easy to come back next time and follow that rock pile, or drop off or weed line perfectly with no guess work. Fewer weed snags, emergency turns, and wandering into unproductive shallow or deeper water.

A waypoint is also nice to put down over a dead head, shallow spot, or boat launch on an unfamiliar lake. Things look different in the dark and coming from a different direction - it's a safety thing as much as a feature thing.

Enjoy your unit if that's what you go with - you will love it.