Fall Index Netting (FIN) summary reports

[Don Meredith]

Alberta Environment and Parks has posted on its website Fall Index Netting summary reports (https://www.alberta.ca/fall-index-netting-summaries.aspx) for several lakes netted in the fall of 2020. The information gathered will be used to set regulations for these lakes in the future.

I have included the highlights of the Wabamun report on the Wabamun Watershed Management Council website's Fishery page (https://www.wwmc.ca/wabamun-fishery) for those interested.

[AlbertanGP]

Thanks for posting that these were up. I've been checking on and off. There's good info in these summaries. :happy0180:

[dodger]

Thanks for sharing this link.

Last year was a tough one on our lakes and reservoirs. So many people out in anything that could float were fishing. I have never seen so many Pike floating around dead as I have seen this year.

Dodger.

[Penner]

Barbless, bait ban, a pike stocking program, or all 3 ideally.

[pikeman06]

Things aren't lookin too good for the pike especially. Interesting to see what the post covid number f.i.n numbers are like. Alot of these fisheries are gonna get heavy pressure this winter and upcoming 2021 open water season. I don't know how efficient these nets are at catchin bait fish but some of those lakes they catch 170 walleye and one or 2 spottail shiners....no wonder there is no recruitment of small game fish. They all get gobbled up as fingerling.

[SNAPFisher]

Would be nice to see all species listed but understand that the focus is largely on the two. At least they are mentioned in the summary paragraph. Looks interesting for some... :)

[MoFugger21]

Thanks for posting this.

I know very little about this process, but... Does 8 gill nets truly give a representative picture of large reservoirs like Travers and McGregor? Those are big bodies of water.

That said, I am glad to see them netted for the first time 9 years.

[Smoky buck]

Sounds like there should be some stocking of forage fish (minnows, perch, even whites in some cases) and some lakes need walleye thinned. Some lakes not listed I am catching large numbers of pike but they are skinny. Theses lakes don’t have walleye

I have had no issues catching fish but some lakes are definitely not healthy ecosystems

[Talking moose]

I think angler surveys are better than a few nets thrown in a lake.
Are the nets even placed in strategic places? Were they placed mainly in a west portion of a lake all the while a specie was was staging more less in the eastern portion in anticipation for spawn? Maybe. Maybe not.
I just feel that the seasoned anglers have a better feel for a lake than a bio that’s never been to said lake before and tosses out some nets.
Probably best to do both netting and surveys at lakes. I’m sure they must do both atleast sometimes though.

[Don Meredith]

I think angler surveys are better than a few nets thrown in a lake.
Are the nets even placed in strategic places? Were they placed mainly in a west portion of a lake all the while a specie was was staging more less in the eastern portion in anticipation for spawn? Maybe. Maybe not.
I just feel that the seasoned anglers have a better feel for a lake than a bio that’s never been to said lake before and tosses out some nets.
Probably best to do both netting and surveys at lakes. I’m sure they must do both atleast sometimes though.

Here's a brief description of the FIN process (https://www.alberta.ca/fall-index-netting-overview.aspx).

I agree with you about using anglers to assess lakes, instead of using a process that kills a lot of fish.

[Talking moose]

Here's a brief description of the FIN process (https://www.alberta.ca/fall-index-netting-overview.aspx).

I agree with you about using anglers to assess lakes, instead of using a process that kills a lot of fish.

Thanks.
Good read. There is actually more to it than I thought but the process is still hit or miss IMO.
It is still a useful tool but must be used alongside other methods.
I agree, it sucks killing fish to check on status.

[AlbertanGP]

I have had no issues catching fish but some lakes are definitely not healthy ecosystems

+1

I've talked at length about this with local fisheries biologists. They all tell me the same thing. As an avid catch-and-release sportsman more concerned about the opportunity to catch a decent fish rather than numbers, I am in a small minority. They receive huge pressure to manage waterbodies for the vast majority of anglers who just want to catch a fish to eat it. Apparently, all those other anglers you see out on the ice want desperately to catch their one 19" walleye and eat it. Same with hammer-handle pike I guess... :snapoutofit:

[AlbertanGP]

I think angler surveys are better than a few nets thrown in a lake.
Are the nets even placed in strategic places? Were they placed mainly in a west portion of a lake all the while a specie was was staging more less in the eastern portion in anticipation for spawn? Maybe. Maybe not.
I just feel that the seasoned anglers have a better feel for a lake than a bio that’s never been to said lake before and tosses out some nets.
Probably best to do both netting and surveys at lakes. I’m sure they must do both atleast sometimes though.

The F.I.N. surveys are a valid process that provide useful information on a lake, and I think they are at least as important as angler surveys. The problem with angler surveys...particularly with the influx of new anglers during Covid...is that the average angler is incredibly inept at catching fish. I've seen lots of creel surveys over the years where the catch rate per hour for a species might be down around 0.20/hour...five hours for the average angler to catch a fish. I go out on those water bodies during the same time as the surveys, and catch 10-20/hour. I don't consider that so much my skill as the lack of the average fisherman. Anyone worth their salt has come back to the dock greeted by a C.O. doing a creel survey and been told fishing was slow after they were just out hammering fish.

Myself, I'd prefer to know what fish are in a lake rather than how successful the efforts of others were to catch them. ;)

[Talking moose]

The F.I.N. surveys are a valid process that provide useful information on a lake, and I think they are at least as important as angler surveys. The problem with angler surveys...particularly with the influx of new anglers during Covid...is that the average angler is incredibly inept at catching fish. I've seen lots of creel surveys over the years where the catch rate per hour for a species might be down around 0.20/hour...five hours for the average angler to catch a fish. I go out on those water bodies during the same time as the surveys, and catch 10-20/hour. I don't consider that so much my skill as the lack of the average fisherman. Anyone worth their salt has come back to the dock greeted by a C.O. doing a creel survey and been told fishing was slow after they were just out hammering fish.

Myself, I'd prefer to know what fish are in a lake rather than how successful the efforts of others were to catch them. ;)
Yes I agree they are a good tool. And that alit of anglers are inept. That’s why I inserted “seasoned” anglers in there.
Not sure if surveys could differentiate between seasoned anglers and newbies or not. But if they could, I feel it would reveal more on a lakes overall health.

[Talking moose]

I’ll also add, that if I picked 10 hardcore fisherman to fish a lake for a week, they would know as much or more with what’s wrong or right about a lake than a bio after throwing some nets.

[DiabeticKripple]

hmmm its nothing to catch 50 walleyes a night in the summer at Travers. Big and small ones.

[AlbertanGP]

I’ll also add, that if I picked 10 hardcore fisherman to fish a lake for a week, they would know as much or more with what’s wrong or right about a lake than a bio after throwing some nets.

I don't think the fisheries biologists are as clueless as it would seem. Again, I've found they are mandated by bureaucrats with managing lakes in a manner inconsistent with any semblance of common sense for recreational anglers that feel it is their right to eat a fish every time they dunk a lure in the water. :thinking-006:

[Sooner]

Last summer was the first time in many years that I have not camped and fished Fickle Lake. I have fished that lake since I was a little kid, 53 now.


I seen it go from a catch and keep lake with walleye and pike to only perch and whitefish can be kept now. Never seen a perch come out and only 1 white(never targeted them though). I looked up the Fickle lake report and agree the pike are hurting big time. Sad as it used to be a fun lake for them with all the Lilly Pads and the possibility of a hog was always there.


But the walleye fishing has been fun for years. The size was small but we catch lots when the bite is on and we have seen the size of the walleye get bigger each year. The last summer I fished there we were getting some nice up and comers in the net.

No one is keeping the walleye so how is it rated so high for unsustainability? Did the bio's have a bad net day with low numbers?


Interesting info and yes a good tool but I don't agree the walleye in Fickle are or might be in trouble.

[Talking moose]

Some lakes have slow growth rates compared to other lakes. That’s partly why some lakes can have a lot of fishing pressure and still have a catch and keep.
Other lakes are far less fertile and growth is naturally slow. These lakes may have a fair number of walleye(for example) but catch and keep would deplete the lakes fast. Each lake has to be handled individually. Those province wide limits we used to have killed many lakes.
Which could be why some lakes seem to have plenty of fish but are classified high risk. Etc.

[AlbertanGP]

But the walleye fishing has been fun for years. The size was small but we catch lots when the bite is on and we have seen the size of the walleye get bigger each year. The last summer I fished there we were getting some nice up and comers in the net.

No one is keeping the walleye so how is it rated so high for unsustainability? Did the bio's have a bad net day with low numbers?


Interesting info and yes a good tool but I don't agree the walleye in Fickle are or might be in trouble.

The F.I.N. for Fickle pretty much tells you in one paragraph why its at high risk.

The length distribution shows sporadic recruitment and low
abundances of 340 to 540 mm Walleyes (Figure 2).
The 2020 FIN sample represented approximately 2.9% of
the estimated mature Walleye population size.

The lake has lackluster recruitment, meaning there are not a lot of immature fish coming up to replace the adults. You said it yourself "the size of the walleye get bigger each year".

Also note that they figure the 79 walleyes they caught represented 2.9% of the entire mature walleye population in the lake. Do the math and let that sink in for a minute...

It could be that after fishing Fickle for 40-50 years, you're a bit more adept at catching fish there than the average angler. Good anglers can catch fish at a lake right through a crash.

IF you read through a few F.I.N. reports, you will see there are several lakes with strong numbers of really big walleye, but no recruitment. Those lakes have a few really good years left in them and then they'll be done. And people will scratch their heads wondering what happened...

[Gbuss]

If you look at wabamum lake for example. How often do you find big schools of bait fish. Minnows or shiners. Not to often or any lake in alberta for that. Now if fish and wildlife want to do a bite of a study they would set up a hatchery on a lake that produces the native bait fish for that lake. Dump a billion 1"-4" bait in the fall or spring to help reduce presentation on the fry in the spring. Age classes of fish will start to grow helping to bring in bigger heather fish. In this theory the main sport fish would focus on eating these bait fish over their owen fry as a food source. The fry would be given the chance to thrive and the larger breeding fish a food source. It would make it more difficult to catch these fish as they would have an abundant of food but anglers would also have the option to use the live bait from the hatchery while they fish. Just a thought. What are your guys thoughts on this.

Gbuss

[Talking moose]

If you look at wabamum lake for example. How often do you find big schools of bait fish. Minnows or shiners. Not to often or any lake in alberta for that. Now if fish and wildlife want to do a bite of a study they would set up a hatchery on a lake that produces the native bait fish for that lake. Dump a billion 1"-4" bait in the fall or spring to help reduce presentation on the fry in the spring. Age classes of fish will start to grow helping to bring in bigger heather fish. In this theory the main sport fish would focus on eating these bait fish over their owen fry as a food source. The fry would be given the chance to thrive and the larger breeding fish a food source. It would make it more difficult to catch these fish as they would have an abundant of food but anglers would also have the option to use the live bait from the hatchery while they fish. Just a thought. What are your guys thoughts on this.

Gbuss
How do you know the billions of minnows released won’t compete with gamefish fry for food?
Could possibly wipe out a whole year class of gamefish?

[whitetail Junkie]

hmmm its nothing to catch 50 walleyes a night in the summer at Travers. Big and small ones.

X2 and there are about 5 other southern lakes with the same results....lol

[Gbuss]

How do you know the billions of minnows released won’t compete with gamefish fry for food?
Could possibly wipe out a whole year class of gamefish?

A billion bait fish would take the pressure off the fry for being eaten. Stocking them in the fall would also give fry the summer to eat all the food they can and then the game fish would be eating the shinners/minnows all winter helping increase their size. Also a billion baitfish would be a drop in the bucket for the amount of walleye and pike in wabamum. I think they have stocked a few million walleye and well they have been reproducing. But the bios would be able to tell what would be a sustainable number to put in in the end. I think it would be a great little project to be on and one that would benefit lakes in need of bait fish.

Gbuss

[Talking moose]

A billion bait fish would take the pressure off the fry for being eaten. Stocking them in the fall would also give fry the summer to eat all the food they can and then the game fish would be eating the shinners/minnows all winter helping increase their size. Also a billion baitfish would be a drop in the bucket for the amount of walleye and pike in wabamum. I think they have stocked a few million walleye and well they have been reproducing. But the bios would be able to tell what would be a sustainable number to put in in the end. I think it would be a great little project to be on and one that would benefit lakes in need of bait fish.

Gbuss

Yup. I get your theory. And think it’s a good one. But I’m just trying to weigh in any negative impacts it could have. Since you asked for thoughts.

[DiabeticKripple]

X2 and there are about 5 other southern lakes with the same results....lol

tags could be implemented. slot size 43-55cm.

[buckman]

I think angler surveys are better than a few nets thrown in a lake.
Are the nets even placed in strategic places? Were they placed mainly in a west portion of a lake all the while a specie was was staging more less in the eastern portion in anticipation for spawn? Maybe. Maybe not.
I just feel that the seasoned anglers have a better feel for a lake than a bio that’s never been to said lake before and tosses out some nets.
Probably best to do both netting and surveys at lakes. I’m sure they must do both atleast sometimes though.

Agree 100% whether its fish,game or any other wildlife there surveys are in my experience way off.

[buckman]

I’ll also add, that if I picked 10 hardcore fisherman to fish a lake for a week, they would know as much or more with what’s wrong or right about a lake than a bio after throwing some nets.

Such a great idea.

[Smoky buck]

I’ll also add, that if I picked 10 hardcore fisherman to fish a lake for a week, they would know as much or more with what’s wrong or right about a lake than a bio after throwing some nets.

The right anglers I would agree but there are some hardcore anglers with off the wall theories out there too.

[Gbuss]

Yup. I get your theory. And think it’s a good one. But I’m just trying to weigh in any negative impacts it could have. Since you asked for thoughts.

I appreciate the feed back. I think alot of bios think dump the fish in but never do a survey on the bait in those lakes. If your putting fish in they need a source of food to be sustainable. I know I have not heard of them stocking bait fish has anyone else heard.

Gbuss

[Talking moose]

I appreciate the feed back. I think alot of bios think dump the fish in but never do a survey on the bait in those lakes. If your putting fish in they need a source of food to be sustainable. I know I have not heard of them stocking bait fish has anyone else heard.

Gbuss

I’ll play devils advocate again.... lol
If there’s not enough fish, and they are putting fish in, wouldn’t the baitfish numbers already be high in the lake from low to moderate gamefish numbers?

[Penner]

The common denominator is we as anglers fail to do our part to manage the fisheries. Just because there is a keep limit does not mean a person should be keeping their limit each an every time they are out on a body of water.

I fished a particular Lake a ton this summer, seen the same boats each weekend with the same group or family of anglers, keeping their slot limit, legally. I’m all for a family going out and enjoying the outdoors and having a occasional fish fry but we have to limit what we harvest. We do not have a stocking program nor the amount of fish bearing waters in this Province to sustain fish populations for the number of anglers pure and simple. Bio’s can only do so much with a small budget.

Walleye fisheries collapsed because of over fishing. Whitefish fishing has collapsed because of over fishing. The Pike fishing has collapsed because of overfishing. It isn’t because of anything else.

Either we go to a take and keep fishery or trophy catch and release in this province. We can’t have both without an extensive stocking program and rigid regulations.

[SNAPFisher]

I’ll play devils advocate again.... lol
If there’s not enough fish, and they are putting fish in, wouldn’t the baitfish numbers already be high in the lake from low to moderate gamefish numbers?

Pigeon should be a good looking glass for this. How many minnows for forage species do you see fishing it? I really see next to nothing. Might benefit from a forage kick start. Just a thought though.

[SNAPFisher]

The common denominator is we as anglers fail to do our part to manage the fisheries. Just because there is a keep limit does not mean a person should be keeping their limit each an every time they are out on a body of water.

I fished a particular Lake a ton this summer, seen the same boats each weekend with the same group or family of anglers, keeping their slot limit, legally. I’m all for a family going out and enjoying the outdoors and having a occasional fish fry but we have to limit what we harvest. We do not have a stocking program nor the amount of fish bearing waters in this Province to sustain fish populations for the number of anglers pure and simple. Bio’s can only do so much with a small budget.

Walleye fisheries collapsed because of over fishing. Whitefish fishing has collapsed because of over fishing. The Pike fishing has collapsed because of overfishing. It isn’t because of anything else.

Either we go to a take and keep fishery or trophy catch and release in this province. We can’t have both without an extensive stocking program and rigid regulations.

Whole lot of truths on this post. Agree.

[Smoky buck]

The common denominator is we as anglers fail to do our part to manage the fisheries. Just because there is a keep limit does not mean a person should be keeping their limit each an every time they are out on a body of water.

I fished a particular Lake a ton this summer, seen the same boats each weekend with the same group or family of anglers, keeping their slot limit, legally. I’m all for a family going out and enjoying the outdoors and having a occasional fish fry but we have to limit what we harvest. We do not have a stocking program nor the amount of fish bearing waters in this Province to sustain fish populations for the number of anglers pure and simple. Bio’s can only do so much with a small budget.

Walleye fisheries collapsed because of over fishing. Whitefish fishing has collapsed because of over fishing. The Pike fishing has collapsed because of overfishing. It isn’t because of anything else.

Either we go to a take and keep fishery or trophy catch and release in this province. We can’t have both without an extensive stocking program and rigid regulations.

Everyone using realistic moderation would be a positive for sure and we all have personal control when it comes to keeping our limit or not. Responsible C&R practices is another we all can do to limit our impact

Unfortunately one thing that cannot be fixed is a large number of Alberta’s lakes are surrounded by houses adding pressure and impacting water quality.

[Talking moose]

Pigeon should be a good looking glass for this. How many minnows for forage species do you see fishing it? I really see next to nothing. Might benefit from a forage kick start. Just a thought though.

I don’t really see minnows any lake. Sometimes I’ll see them in the summer along the shoreline in a foot of water though. But I rarely see minnows in any lake to be honest.
Sometimes though when perch fishing and I’ll think it’s micro perch attacking the lure but it’s actually shiners.
Other than that I don’t really see them.

[Gbuss]

I don’t really see minnows any lake. Sometimes I’ll see them in the summer along the shoreline in a foot of water though. But I rarely see minnows in any lake to be honest.
Sometimes though when perch fishing and I’ll think it’s micro perch attacking the lure but it’s actually shiners.
Other than that I don’t really see them.

This is my point. I remember when I was a kid growing up on lake of the woods. I went dock fishing down on the docks for the float plains in town. A school of walleye must have pushed about a million shiners up in this completely closed off dock one way in and one way out. We caught fish after fish after fish. Tones of walleye. But when ever i fish here i see no schooles of bait like that in lakes. Fish here would benefit from something like that. But the bait fish population is vary minimal in about 90% of are flushable waters.


Gbuss

[Smoky buck]

Gbuss I am in full agreement that a lack of forage fish seems to be a problem in a lot of places and this goes beyond minnows in my opinion

I think lobbying for a test stocking of forage fish and study would be worthwhile to test the theory. It may not be the fast fix some dream of but could show results that could benefit Alberta’s fisheries in the long run

[Talking moose]

Would lack of forage fish indicate too high of gamefish numbers?
In lakes that have been “fished hard” and fish populations have collapsed or classified vulnerable, shouldn’t there be great amounts of forage fish due to minimal numbers of gamefish?
The balance of nature so to speak....

[Talking moose]

The way I see it,
If there’s too much baitfish in a lake, there’s not enough gamefish to keep them in check.
If there’s not enough baitfish in a lake, there’s too many predator fish in the lake.
It should balance themselves out.
Maybe more tags should be issued out or larger limits for lakes like pigeon if there is few baitfish.
I would imagine wabamum is devoid of baitfish as well since it’s zero limit. Catch and keep might fix that.

[fish99]

years ago at pigeon and buck lake you could wade in the shallow water on a sunny day and fill an ice cream pail full of minnows and u were good for the year if u froze them in small containers . the only minnows I have seen in pigeon this year are burbot and not many of them .
whitefish in deep water in pigeon used to spit up small minnows when caught , that was there main food source then , now even the walleye are on a shrimp only diet

[Smoky buck]

Would lack of forage fish indicate too high of gamefish numbers?
In lakes that have been “fished hard” and fish populations have collapsed or classified vulnerable, shouldn’t there be great amounts of forage fish due to minimal numbers of gamefish?
The balance of nature so to speak....

Not that cut and dry really

An over abundance of game fish can cause a decline in forage and then be followed by a decline in health/numbers of game fish. In time forage should rebound but that is going to take time and a major collapse of predators. Depending on the stage of this you will see different gamefish numbers/health. But that is if there is no other factors at play

Something many fail to realize is many game fish also provide forage. Two big ones that come to mind that everyone sees the decline is perch and burbot. Most anglers recognize perch as important forage but don’t realize burbot produce a huge number of fry that are targeted by other game fish. Whitefish play a roll as well

Alberta only recently backed off on game fish species that are a big part of providing forage in some lakes. They experienced years of pressure shifted in their direction do to less walleye and pike opportunities

Healthy lakes that produce quality game fish need good forage to do so and this comes in many forms

Personally I also question what maybe impacting forage beyond just predators

My opinion is that issues regarding Alberta’s fishery are not as simple as angler pressure and stocking of walleye alone but instead a combination of the two along with a mix of other factors depending on the body of water

Truthfully in many lakes I fish pike and walleye numbers are not what I find concerning. The quality and health of theses species can be an issue in some areas. Now when you start looking at the other species that also act as forage and minnows that rings alarm bells to me personally. Another is high numbers of shrimp in some lakes and a lack of forage fish

But all of this is only observation and means little without studying the ecosystem of a lake at an in-depth level to find all factors at play

[SNAPFisher]

I don’t really see minnows any lake. Sometimes I’ll see them in the summer along the shoreline in a foot of water though. But I rarely see minnows in any lake to be honest.
Sometimes though when perch fishing and I’ll think it’s micro perch attacking the lure but it’s actually shiners.
Other than that I don’t really see them.

Gull Lake. Pretty much anywhere but especially during the burbot spawn. I get visited by minnow clouds about 5-6 down in say 14 FOW. It is impressive. Didn't identify what they are but there is plenty of them....sometimes takes awhile for the entire school to swim by. I'll bet Gull could recover faster than Pigeon as a result. Let's make the regs the same and call it a race! j/k

Muskiki lake, never seen more forage species than this lake. Truly amazing amount of minnows. Unlike most lakes I visit.

Lower Chain by AthB. A lot of different species I see there as well. Tigers often burp up fresh ones during the summer.

Just some examples that go the other way.

[huntsfurfish]

years ago at pigeon and buck lake you could wade in the shallow water on a sunny day and fill an ice cream pail full of minnows and u were good for the year if u froze them in small containers . the only minnows I have seen in pigeon this year are burbot and not many of them .
whitefish in deep water in pigeon used to spit up small minnows when caught , that was there main food source then , now even the walleye are on a shrimp only diet

So it was fishermen that helped remove the minnow population?;)
Anybody wonder why in the regs it is recommended to use the minnows only in the water body you catch them in? And to just take what you need? Partly because you are removing a food source from one place to use in other places.
Very likely you were not the only one filling a bucket. Not saying this is the reason for forage shortages, but it is a part of it. Other reasons could be habitat, birds and others as well including large numbers of predators.
Sorry not trying to pick on you!

[Talking moose]

So it was fishermen that helped remove the minnow population?;)
Anybody wonder why in the regs it is recommended to use the minnows only in the water body you catch them in? And to just take what you need? Partly because you are removing a food source from one place to use in other places.
Very likely you were not the only one filling a bucket. Not saying this is the reason for forage shortages, but it is a part of it. Other reasons could be habitat, birds and others as well including large numbers of predators.
Sorry not trying to pick on you!

It’s to not introduce non native species into new water bodies is the reasoning behind it.

[fish99]

So it was fishermen that helped remove the minnow population?;)
Anybody wonder why in the regs it is recommended to use the minnows only in the water body you catch them in? And to just take what you need? Partly because you are removing a food source from one place to use in other places.
Very likely you were not the only one filling a bucket. Not saying this is the reason for forage shortages, but it is a part of it. Other reasons could be habitat, birds and others as well including large numbers of predators.
Sorry not trying to pick on you!

I think we all know that in pigeon lake it was the over abundance of walleye that decimated all the other species of fish . other lakes with to many walleye have the same issue
to successful of a stocking program ?

[huntsfurfish]

It’s to not introduce non native species into new water bodies is the reasoning behind it.

Thats part of it.

[elk eater]

I also have to wonder about most lakes having walleye limits at zero and still have pike open. Kinda moves the pressure solely on pike doesn’t it ? Now here comes the family of 4 from the previous post and they are keeping a stringer full of pike that are already losing the battle to the rising walleye population.

Seems to me the same as very few lakes being open for Walleye moves pressure to a few lakes left open. Weekend warriors head out for a road trip to catch and keep the air walleye and then fish local to keep their pike. The added pressure to Calling and south buck lake has been evident to me.

[litwin]

This method kills 1%-2% of the lakes fish population, why is it not replaced with something more sustainable. Our lakes are already under heavy pressure and this method is killing off those larger fish that have the genetic adaptations to spawn and survive in these lakes.

[Penner]

I think we all know that in pigeon lake it was the over abundance of walleye that decimated all the other species of fish . other lakes with to many walleye have the same issue
to successful of a stocking program ?

Perch yup. All other species 100% incorrect.

[calgarygringo]

Lots of info if you dig a bit on the internet of places in the northern U.S. where they have been doing studies on forage fish. They have also been stocking minnow type forage in many lakes instead of just more walleye. They are finding they walleye grow much better, produce better and find other fish have a better survival as well as the walleye don't eat them all.
Even the bios have told me the big issues we have is water level changes in southern AB hurts our spawning beds for future fish and food. If we had a better food supply many of these lakes and reservoirs would flourish way better based on some of the data I have seen. Last year I mentioned this to one of the bio's and he said he had read some of this too. It is also was chaper to stock minnows than millions of walleyes that take forever to grow then eat the rest of the lake out of house and home.

I guess bottom line is some states are starting to think outside the box and finding other ways to make things work. Here we just keep doing things the sam eold ways and complain nothing will ever work.

[cube]

I think we all know that in pigeon lake it was the over abundance of walleye that decimated all the other species of fish . other lakes with to many walleye have the same issue
to successful of a stocking program ?

Agreed.
The matrix they use for the FSI was pulled out of thin air and never validated. This has lead to the major species imbalance we see in pretty much every walleye managed lake.

[trigger7mm]

Back in the 70’s any of the lakes in the Lakeland region, and many others as well, used to be loaded with spot tail shiners. Like someone said earlier, you could catch enough minnows with one swish of a minnow net to last all year if you froze them. I haven’t seen that now in a least 25 years.

[fish99]

Back in the 70’s any of the lakes in the Lakeland region, and many others as well, used to be loaded with spot tail shiners. Like someone said earlier, you could catch enough minnows with one swish of a minnow net to last all year if you froze them. I haven’t seen that now in a least 25 years.

and no minnows the worse the algae blooms are

[Penner]

Back in the 70’s any of the lakes in the Lakeland region, and many others as well, used to be loaded with spot tail shiners. Like someone said earlier, you could catch enough minnows with one swish of a minnow net to last all year if you froze them. I haven’t seen that now in a least 25 years.

And those lakes were largely void of Walleye.

Over populated Walleye not ideal either.

Balance is the key. Ain’t a simple game.

[Smoky buck]

and no minnows the worse the algae blooms are

Algae blooms are to do with the increase of water front homes and farm run off

Minnows have an extremely low impact positive or negative to algae

[WayneChristie]

Gbuss I am in full agreement that a lack of forage fish seems to be a problem in a lot of places and this goes beyond minnows in my opinion

I think lobbying for a test stocking of forage fish and study would be worthwhile to test the theory. It may not be the fast fix some dream of but could show results that could benefit Alberta’s fisheries in the long run

I think we have a whole new source of baitfish in Alberta, unwanted but still gamefish food. the Prussians reproduce so fast the predators should have a limitless source of food at least in the lakes someone dumps them in. which in time will likely be most of them the way the friggin things spread. Ive caught some pretty decent eyes who were crammed with carp minnows and some with big carp in them. If we could drop one down on a hook Id bet the big lake pike would gobble them up as fast as my favourite baitfish.

[Smoky buck]

I think we have a whole new source of baitfish in Alberta, unwanted but still gamefish food. the Prussians reproduce so fast the predators should have a limitless source of food at least in the lakes someone dumps them in. which in time will likely be most of them the way the friggin things spread. Ive caught some pretty decent eyes who were crammed with carp minnows and some with big carp in them. If we could drop one down on a hook Id bet the big lake pike would gobble them up as fast as my favourite baitfish.

I have been curious if pike and walleye may benefit from the Prussian carp similar to how the smallmouth in the Great Lakes have from goby. Only time will tell but the potential is there

I would still prefer a native forage fish be stocked

[cube]

I have been curious if pike and walleye may benefit from the Prussian carp similar to how the smallmouth in the Great Lakes have from goby. Only time will tell but the potential is there

I would still prefer a native forage fish be stocked

Your correct, only time will tell how this will turn out. In a complex food web like a lake there are often unintended consequences to things. For instance, while they might be great forage for mature walleye and pike perhaps they will also eat all the pike and walleye eggs which would lead to an eventual collapse. Hence, why invasive species are always risky.

I have, at least in the past, not been a fan of stocking outside of land locked puddles with sterile fish. Stocking is more complex and risky than most realize I think. We have in Alberta been great at moving disease with our stocking. This is not just IPN with our fish but also lung worm, liver flukes, etc etc. with other animals. You also have to worry about the genetics that your moving around. Just one example would be outbreeding depression. It is quite complex and expensive if you want to do it correctly and even then can have unintended consequences. That's why generally I prefer they just manage the resource and not screw around with it too much.

[Smoky buck]

Your correct, only time will tell how this will turn out. In a complex food web like a lake there are often unintended consequences to things. For instance, while they might be great forage for mature walleye and pike perhaps they will also eat all the pike and walleye eggs which would lead to an eventual collapse. Hence, why invasive species are always risky.

I have, at least in the past, not been a fan of stocking outside of land locked puddles with sterile fish. Stocking is more complex and risky than most realize I think. We have in Alberta been great at moving disease with our stocking. This is not just IPN with our fish but also lung worm, liver flukes, etc etc. with other animals. You also have to worry about the genetics that your moving around. Just one example would be outbreeding depression. It is quite complex and expensive if you want to do it correctly and even then can have unintended consequences. That's why generally I prefer they just manage the resource and not screw around with it too much.

Completely agree and I have a feeling carp will effect other species through competition for food as well. There will definitely be some negative to invasive carp.

Spent a few years studying, raising, and stocking fish. There is definitely a lot of factors that need to be considered and even when man manipulates the numbers of a native species to a lake it has an impact.