WMU With Highest Wolf Density

[Ram94]

After this last season, and running into more wolf track than years past (WMU 515), It has me wanting to put more effort into predator management. Wolf numbers seem to be increasing rapidly in alot of zones and it got me wondering which zones are being hit the hardest?

[Positrac]

This past season in 530 I saw wolves 5 times out and a total of 2 dozen animals give or take. Most of my time was spent hunting moose while in 530 but I keep my eyes out for Whitetails when out and about too. In 15 days hunting the zone I only saw a couple deer and very few tracks in general. Lots of dog tracks every corner of the zone I was in though.

[Ram94]

Not too far from 515. I found game to be more scarce than usual and Moose draws are getting tougher to come by. Did you get any shot opportunities at them Positrac?

[st99]

every units west of 22 and north of 16 have a lot of wolves

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Most wolf sign I’ve come across consistently is on the south side of the braz.

[hunterngather]

Why cant the GOA send a bunch of drones over the WMU's and get a count on how many and what animals are there?

So much can be done if we knew that information.

[Barry D]

I shot four my self in 511 over the last five years and I've seen many more. My son has shot two. I don't even bother to hunt moose in that zone anymore and have not seen a moose in that zone for 10 years or more. Next to no deer or hunters these last 6-8 years either. I Keep saying the wolf numbers have to eventually go down with the prey numbers so low. Well this winter is the first one in six years I have not seen a wolf yet, but then I haven't seen a moose or deer either. Maybe 511 has hit rock bottom for pray and the wolves have moved out too. Then it will still take many years for the numbers to rebuild for the few seed that are left. I think all of Northern Alberta is facing the same fate. I try hard for wolves, but they are hard to find and even harder to shoot.

[TrapperMike]

Even got wolves in 220. Seen 2 within 2 miles of my house.

[marky_mark]

I shot four my self in 511 over the last five years and I've seen many more. My son has shot two. I don't even bother to hunt moose in that zone anymore and have not seen a moose in that zone for 10 years or more. Next to no deer or hunters these last 6-8 years either. I Keep saying the wolf numbers have to eventually go down with the prey numbers so low. Well this winter is the first one in six years I have not seen a wolf yet, but then I haven't seen a moose or deer either. Maybe 511 has hit rock bottom for pray and the wolves have moved out too. Then it will still take many years for the numbers to rebuild for the few seed that are left. I think all of Northern Alberta is facing the same fate. I try hard for wolves, but they are hard to find and even harder to shoot.

I remember when you could get undersubscribed bull moose tags in 511
Not anymore

[Prairiewolf]

I rarely fill my 402 elk tag so 402 must be full of them :)

[Grizzly Adams]

Most wolf sign I’ve come across consistently is on the south side of the braz.


I know some people around Valleyview, they claim there are lots around there and big.

Grizz

[Dubious]

lots of wolves in the porcupine

[7magtime]

Most wolf sign I’ve come across consistently is on the south side of the braz.

Saw a fair amount of wolf sign NW of the Brazeau Resevoir in 339 last month too. Mostly around deer, moose or elk tracks. Go figure.....:thinking-006:

[Stinky Buffalo]

Swan Hills has a decent population too.

I had a spot all picked out for this winter, but then the loggers moved in this past fall. Gonna have to let it settle for a bit, but I can be patient. :)

[bezzola]

Lots in 346 also

[Positrac]

Not too far from 515. I found game to be more scarce than usual and Moose draws are getting tougher to come by. Did you get any shot opportunities at them Positrac?

I got this one in November and clipped a second one out of a pack of a dozen or so. I had a shot at one the beginning of September and a partner had a shot at one a week later. Both shots ended with nothing lying on the ground. For all the rest no shots fired because, well, we were just too slow...

https://i.postimg.cc/MZD5mFwx/A8-BEFA63-FD14-482-B-BD50-727-A331461-C7.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Big Grey Wolf]

I agree with St99 post. Every WMU west of highway 22 and North of 16 are over run with wolves. Take your pick.
Trappers at recent meeting said almost every 500 Wmu north of Slave lake and west of Manning were over run with wolves.

[Dariouskater]

Makes me wish I had the ability to get a few wolf pelts myself. The missus would love it.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Ram94]

That's awesome, Nice work!

[hunterngather]

Ok, would AO people believe an aggressive push to get a real count on animals in WMU'S be beneficial?

[Smoky buck]

Ok, would AO people believe an aggressive push to get a real count on animals in WMU'S be beneficial?

Yup and also a complete harvest report from all user groups

[Grizzly Adams]

Ok, would AO people believe an aggressive push to get a real count on animals in WMU'S be beneficial?

I would think the nature of the beasts and the fact they move long distances would make an accurate count difficult.

Grizz

[Drewski Canuck]

Ok, would AO people believe an aggressive push to get a real count on animals in WMU'S be beneficial?

What do you need a "real count" for, other than to say what we already know, that there are lots of wolves?

If there are caribou in the WMU, Bios are already working at control of wolves to stop the decline of the caribou.

The use of poison bait sites has been used around Grande Cache to try and save the remaining herd there. Arial shooting has been applied for a number of years in 542 / 516 to try and increase those caribou herds. The poison bait sites had some PR blowback, but was working very well at removing whole packs of wolves.

The Province does have motivation to do something about the wolf problem. If the woodland caribou is declared as a threatened species in Alberta, the Feds will take jurisdiction and stop all commercial use of the caribou zone. That means forestry, oil and gas.

So lets encourage the poison bait sites as it is the most effective means to deal with the excess wolf problem. It does mean that there will be some co morbidity, but at least we have the chance to save the caribou.

Drewski

[Huk]

I rarely fill my 402 elk tag so 402 must be full of them :)

It is.

Have run into them in multiple places in that unit and nearby. A few years ago we ran into a group of dudes who had shot 9 in the same spot the year before.

The following year a buddy of mine was up that same drainage when he hears multiple shots go off. A guy shot 3 of them in one go.

Later that season about 8 or 9 kms away we had tracks everywhere and howling around our camp each night. Even ran into a group on the road driving in at night.

[waldedw]

I know there are lot's in 356 and the game and deer population in particular is starting to show it, used to see 15 - 20 deer a day while moose hunting, now your lucky to see 3 or 4 a day.

[hunterngather]

What do you need a "real count" for, other than to say what we already know, that there are lots of wolves?

If there are caribou in the WMU, Bios are already working at control of wolves to stop the decline of the caribou.

The use of poison bait sites has been used around Grande Cache to try and save the remaining herd there. Arial shooting has been applied for a number of years in 542 / 516 to try and increase those caribou herds. The poison bait sites had some PR blowback, but was working very well at removing whole packs of wolves.

The Province does have motivation to do something about the wolf problem. If the woodland caribou is declared as a threatened species in Alberta, the Feds will take jurisdiction and stop all commercial use of the caribou zone. That means forestry, oil and gas.

So lets encourage the poison bait sites as it is the most effective means to deal with the excess wolf problem. It does mean that there will be some co morbidity, but at least we have the chance to save the caribou.

Drewski


Data and information is king when thinking policies.

If we could accurately say X WMU's has an over population of wolves or bears thats impacts population of game animals.

Could that information not be used to cull those predatory animals in the name of conservation?

We all talk about this as a problem for our game, why not use data to inform changes?

[Smoky buck]

Data and information is king when thinking policies.

If we could accurately say X WMU's has an over population of wolves or bears thats impacts population of game animals.

Could that not information not be used to cull those predatory animals in the name or conservation?

We all talk about this as a problem for our game, why not use data to inform changes?

Unfortunately when it comes to predator control it’s more political/social then science based. There has been many studies done in a number of locations showing predators to be the top reason for ungulate decline. Bio’s experience major backlash from the public when suggesting aggressive predator control

It would be nice to know the population of all species, the impact predators are having, along with the harvest of both regulated and unregulated hunting. But it would be even better if political correctness and politics let bio’s make the choices needed to properly manage game numbers

This is the problem with wildlife management in Canada in general not just Alberta

[marky_mark]

What do you need a "real count" for, other than to say what we already know, that there are lots of wolves?

If there are caribou in the WMU, Bios are already working at control of wolves to stop the decline of the caribou.

The use of poison bait sites has been used around Grande Cache to try and save the remaining herd there. Arial shooting has been applied for a number of years in 542 / 516 to try and increase those caribou herds. The poison bait sites had some PR blowback, but was working very well at removing whole packs of wolves.

The Province does have motivation to do something about the wolf problem. If the woodland caribou is declared as a threatened species in Alberta, the Feds will take jurisdiction and stop all commercial use of the caribou zone. That means forestry, oil and gas.

So lets encourage the poison bait sites as it is the most effective means to deal with the excess wolf problem. It does mean that there will be some co morbidity, but at least we have the chance to save the caribou.

Drewski


Next, they need to remove the mountain lion quotas and put a bounty on them

[Positrac]

Data and information is king when thinking policies.

If we could accurately say X WMU's has an over population of wolves or bears thats impacts population of game animals.

Could that information not be used to cull those predatory animals in the name of conservation?

We all talk about this as a problem for our game, why not use data to inform changes?

Bears area whole other thing in 530. I went for a quad ride late last summer in the area I moose hunt and saw 18 different black bears in one afternoon. Again, not 1 deer spotted in that area despite it looking like decent deer habitat. I did end up spending some time in the area come November when my moose tag was open and it was void of deer tracks in the snow.

[hunterngather]

Unfortunately when it comes to predator control it’s more political/social then science based. There has been many studies done in a number of locations showing predators to be the top reason for ungulate decline. Bio’s experience major backlash from the public when suggesting aggressive predator control

It would be nice to know the population of all species, the impact predators are having, along with the harvest of both regulated and unregulated hunting. But it would be even better if political correctness and politics let bio’s make the choices needed to properly manage game numbers

This is the problem with wildlife management in Canada in general not just Alberta


I agree that the bio's need a bigger voice.

We need a person in control to have the balls to take this huge issue on.

We need to know where and how many animals we have left in our province.

[shooter12]

We hunted couple of days last year in 318 and saw a lot of wolf footprints , probably more then we saw alive deers.
Their population is getting out of control I guess.

S12

[KegRiver]

What do you need a "real count" for, other than to say what we already know, that there are lots of wolves?

If there are caribou in the WMU, Bios are already working at control of wolves to stop the decline of the caribou.

The use of poison bait sites has been used around Grande Cache to try and save the remaining herd there. Arial shooting has been applied for a number of years in 542 / 516 to try and increase those caribou herds. The poison bait sites had some PR blowback, but was working very well at removing whole packs of wolves.

The Province does have motivation to do something about the wolf problem. If the woodland caribou is declared as a threatened species in Alberta, the Feds will take jurisdiction and stop all commercial use of the caribou zone. That means forestry, oil and gas.

So lets encourage the poison bait sites as it is the most effective means to deal with the excess wolf problem. It does mean that there will be some co morbidity, but at least we have the chance to save the caribou.

Drewski

Most of what you say is correct so far as I know, but not your suggestion they continue to use poison.

The problem is they have no idea how to use poison effectively. Yes they kill a lot of critters, but few wolves.
Have a look at the reports they have for their bait use.

Here is one such report from Alberta Environment & Parks covering a five year span from 2012 to 2017.

It records a total of 65 wolves killed by strychnine and over 100 non target species poisoned including one Golden Eagle, one Bald Eagle, one Grizzly Bear and one Fisher, plus numerous Coyote and Fox.


https://d74bdffd-608e-41bb-b1bd-7dfd1752601f.filesusr.com/ugd/4bd11b_5b5b885abcf244bea48bd25fb922df6a.pdf

There is no way of knowing how many animals were poisoned but not found.
I do know it is a significant factor with the method of poisoning they use.

No I am not a wolf fanatic or anything of that nature, I am simply a guy who learned about strychnine from someone who used strychnine extensively.
That individual was my dad.

He learned to use it for tapping when it was legal to do so. Eventually he was hired by the Alberta government to spread poison baits to stop the Rabies epidemic in the early 1950s.

[Brbpuppy]

Almost every hunting trip I've done to 349 has yielded wolf spotting's.

[bdub]

Here is one such report from Alberta Environment & Parks covering a five year span from 2012 to 2017.

It records a total of 65 wolves killed by strychnine and over 100 non target species poisoned including one Golden Eagle, one Bald Eagle, one Grizzly Bear and one Fisher, plus numerous Coyote and Fox.


https://d74bdffd-608e-41bb-b1bd-7dfd1752601f.filesusr.com/ugd/4bd11b_5b5b885abcf244bea48bd25fb922df6a.pdf

There is no way of knowing how many animals were poisoned but not found.
I do know it is a significant factor with the method of poisoning they use.



Thanks for posting the pdf.

If they are trying to reduce predation on game, the reduction in coyotes, ravens and other species besides wolves is not a bad thing. A big bunch of ravens will clean up a good chunk of anything the wolves leave over once they're full. This just reduces the time between wolf kills, increases predation. Grizzly bears, well we could use a lot fewer of them, heavy killers of calves, fawns in the spring. A reduction of anything that eats meat reduces predation. Cats need a big cull, the whole notion of reducing the killing of female cougars via the quota is wrong. If anything we should encourage female harvest it where game numbers are low/falling which seems to be almost everywhere.

[marky_mark]

Thanks for posting the pdf.

If they are trying to reduce predation on game, the reduction in coyotes, ravens and other species besides wolves is not a bad thing. A big bunch of ravens will clean up a good chunk of anything the wolves leave over once they're full. This just reduces the time between wolf kills, increases predation. Grizzly bears, well we could use a lot fewer of them, heavy killers of calves, fawns in the spring. A reduction of anything that eats meat reduces predation. Cats need a big cull, the whole notion of reducing the killing of female cougars via the quota is wrong. If anything we should encourage female harvest it where game numbers are low/falling which seems to be almost everywhere.

Ravens are hard on fawns and ewes also
They poke their eyes out

[wildalberta]

my time spent chasing cats in the winter west of rocky has really put the wolf numbers into perspective. wish i still lived closer and i would target them far more often. I am now living around bonnyville and while there are wolves around, the numbers are pretty low in my opinion. i work on the clawr and just south of it along the wolf lake grazing reserve, and see very few tracks anymore. I went almost 3 years without even a sighting and the only times ive caught them anymore are feasting on roadkill off hwy 41.

[Drewski Canuck]

Yes it was the bad PR of Co Morbidity that the bait sites at Grande Cache ran into.

It also was noted that the whole pack was removed. Shooting can result in the remaining wolves forming into two or more packs when the Alpha male and female are removed, resulting in more pups born the next spring from the multiple packs.

Poisoning using canine specific poisons like a product called 1080, is much more selective. Given the limited budgets to work with, if you want to save the Caribou, and deer and moose and elk, then there is no other choice.

Drewski

[303 Epps]

Almost every hunting trip I've done to 349 has yielded wolf spotting's.

x 2. Either tracks or a fleeting glimpse.

[Grizzly Adams]

We hunted couple of days last year in 318 and saw a lot of wolf footprints , probably more then we saw alive deers.
Their population is getting out of control I guess.

S12

I like 318. They move lot, but they like it there.

Grizz

[Brbpuppy]

x 2. Either tracks or a fleeting glimpse.

Yeah when I spot them, I never actually have a chance to shoot lol.

[Big Grey Wolf]

You do not need complicated expensive aerial surveys to determine ungulate/wolf/cougar populations in a WMU. A trapper or experienced hunter with a good Sled can read a lot of tracks and determine game populations with high reliability.

[RockyMountainMusic]

Yes it was the bad PR of Co Morbidity that the bait sites at Grande Cache ran into.

It also was noted that the whole pack was removed. Shooting can result in the remaining wolves forming into two or more packs when the Alpha male and female are removed, resulting in more pups born the next spring from the multiple packs.

Poisoning using canine specific poisons like a product called 1080, is much more selective. Given the limited budgets to work with, if you want to save the Caribou, and deer and moose and elk, then there is no other choice.

Drewski

It's nice to think its canine specific but that's just a crock, having first hand experience and knowing other trappers where nothing is left alive on their trap line including even whisky jacks lol It's actually very strange and eerie when you can have a huge bait station and not even have so much as a raven show up for months. They call it scorched earth and have a good reason to call it that. They kill everything from weasels/marten to wolverines to yes cougars and grizzlies. Worst part is they lie about the numbers and they are not responsible with check times at all... maybe pretending to save the caribou but they sure as hell are not saving deer/elk or moose in fact they are trying and are successfully killing them off too. (the theory is if there are no moose or elk left alive the wolves will leave or not populate as much due to no food source) They also operate(aerial gunning) in many zones to keep the numbers of dead wolves or the program would look worse and those choppers cover some ground in a day.... Now don't get me wrong I'm a hunter and trapper and I know what predators are capable of but they ignore predators and all other conservation except the big bad wolf in the name of caribou.. its a joke that has gone on for over 12 years here

Also they don't typically poison the Alphas, they leave the shot moose in the center and then make bait mounds with the poison around the outsides, the alphas eat on the big carcass and the subordinates eat the surrounding poison piles. They are good at killing them and everything else that I can't argue. Their budget is far from limited though and the amount they spend on this program would make most peoples head spin.

[Grizzly Adams]

You do not need complicated expensive aerial surveys to determine ungulate/wolf/cougar populations in a WMU. A trapper or experienced hunter with a good Sled can read a lot of tracks and determine game populations with high reliability.

Buddy about wiped out the Banff, Bow Valley pack , 60 miles from Banff. Wolves cover a huge area, they were radio collaring them at one point to get a population estimate and territory size. Think one Canadian one turned up in Montana.

Grizz

[MooseRiverTrapper]

It's nice to think its canine specific but that's just a crock, having first hand experience and knowing other trappers where nothing is left alive on their trap line including even whisky jacks lol It's actually very strange and eerie when you can have a huge bait station and not even have so much as a raven show up for months. They call it scorched earth and have a good reason to call it that. They kill everything from weasels/marten to wolverines to yes cougars and grizzlies. Worst part is they lie about the numbers and they are not responsible with check times at all... maybe pretending to save the caribou but they sure as hell are not saving deer/elk or moose in fact they are trying and are successfully killing them off too. (the theory is if there are no moose or elk left alive the wolves will leave or not populate as much due to no food source) They also operate(aerial gunning) in many zones to keep the numbers of dead wolves or the program would look worse and those choppers cover some ground in a day.... Now don't get me wrong I'm a hunter and trapper and I know what predators are capable of but they ignore predators and all other conservation except the big bad wolf in the name of caribou.. its a joke that has gone on for over 12 years here

Also they don't typically poison the Alphas, they leave the shot moose in the center and then make bait mounds with the poison around the outsides, the alphas eat on the big carcass and the subordinates eat the surrounding poison piles. They are good at killing them and everything else that I can't argue. Their budget is far from limited though and the amount they spend on this program would make most peoples head spin.


Trappers complain. But they don’t catch any wolves. So can they complain?

[RockyMountainMusic]

Trappers complain. But they don’t catch any wolves. So can they complain?

Kinda hard to catch something not there lmfao but the Trappers I refer to did and do catch wolves(if they ever get one alive coming through these days,)lol Not sure what trappers you know but shouldn't paint all with the same brush. You must know those ones that use them for vacation places. The AB gov also then ignores the cougars/grizz/blacks and any other predator etc... I don't know and this is why I usually don't bother even replying these days, people have the blinders on and its easy to point the finger.. just like the grizz is BC the gov knows better etc.... Its ok I'm not here to argue with folks just stating what my experience is with the program.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Good to hear the heli gunning and poison programs were effective in your area.

[Sooner]

I remember when you could get undersubscribed bull moose tags in 511
Not anymore

Same in 516. They used to have over 200 tags not even taken when I first hunted that zone. Now if there are a few undersubscribed tags, they are gone quick.


I watched the wolf population get big in that zone, tracks everywhere, could get 3 big packs howling at night. Then with some deep snow winters and the wolves, the critter numbers crashed fast. Seem to be bouncing back a bit which is good.

[RockyMountainMusic]

Good to hear the heli gunning and poison programs were effective in your area.

You bet, effective killing almost everything just like I said, if that makes you happy you're a special kind of stupid but hey :) :love0025: hopefully they get your area next mine could use a break.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

You bet, effective killing almost everything just like I said, if that makes you happy you're a special kind of stupid but hey :) :love0025: hopefully they get your area next mine could use a break.

When the big picture doesn’t correlate with your personal trapping expectations you call guys stupid.

[Drewski Canuck]

Rockymouontainmusic,

Lets look at your scenario to conclusion. The Caribou become threatened and the Feds use the Endangered Species Legislation to walk in and manage the forests exclusively for the Caribou. No more access for forestry, oil and gas, mining, recreation, etc.

You are not going to tell me that you make off your trap line more than all the businesses that operate in our Caribou habitat?

But you would rather all other businesses and the Caribou suffer and move towards Caribou extinction in Alberta, so that your trap line has whiskey jacks and weasels?

Really?

As offended as you may be about poisoning and areal shooting, this is a tipping point for the Caribou.

The herd at Amadeau Lake is not growing in numbers. The herd at Nipisi is not growing in numbers. The herd at Grande Cache is not growing in numbers. Predation is the biggest obstacle.

At a certain point, the genetic diversity is lost for a herd because the herd is simply too small. Then no recovery effort will take place, and there will be no Caribou in Alberta.

If you only want to think of your trapping business, that is fine and you can have your voice and be heard. But do not criticize people as stupid when they voice their interests and opinion.

Drewski

[KegRiver]

Thanks for posting the pdf.

If they are trying to reduce predation on game, the reduction in coyotes, ravens and other species besides wolves is not a bad thing. A big bunch of ravens will clean up a good chunk of anything the wolves leave over once they're full. This just reduces the time between wolf kills, increases predation. Grizzly bears, well we could use a lot fewer of them, heavy killers of calves, fawns in the spring. A reduction of anything that eats meat reduces predation. Cats need a big cull, the whole notion of reducing the killing of female cougars via the quota is wrong. If anything we should encourage female harvest it where game numbers are low/falling which seems to be almost everywhere.

there is much more to it then just the numbers recorded.

Something many would no know. For every animal poisoned with strychnine there are many more that die from eating on the carcass of the poisoned animal.
Up to four levels worth.

That is, the first animal in the chain eats from a poisoned bait, if it does not eat enough to cause immediate death it goes away and dies somewhere else and is not found.
Anything that eats part of that second animal is also likely to die, and the ones that eat a belly full of that second animal also will die.
The animals that eat off that third animal may die or may just get terribly sick, sick enough to die from exposure to the weather.

The bottom line is that for every animal known to have been poisoned there can be dozens of others that are poisoned as well.

Or to put it another way, the 164 dead animals in that report could represent as many as 3,652,264 poisoned animals.

Although numbers that high could only be achieved if every animal that eat part of the poisoned animal to become poisoned themselves and that is unlikely.
But numbers of a few thousand are very possible.

So it's a lot more then several Fox and Coyotes and one or even a few Eagles and Grizzly bears. It could well be hundreds of such creatures.

That in itself is not my only objection to poisoning with strychnine.

I am also convinced that a bounty system would be far more effective and far less costly.

How many guys would hunt wolves at every opportunity if there were a fifty dollar bounty on their heads, and how many wolves would they kill.
I bet it would be hundreds of guys and a few thousand less wolves as a result.
Not 65 wolves that cost thousands of dollars to kill.

[Drewski Canuck]

Keg,

Fifty bucks on the chance of killing a wolf is not even going to pay the gas to get NEAR where the wolves live, let alone the equipment it takes to actually shoot at a wolf.

That Fifty bucks of course only gets paid after you spend more gas and time taking the wolf to the location where you turn in the wolf to collect the bounty.

In the mean time, there is a predation problem for all the ungulates and especially the Caribou.

SO it appears that we have to get control of the wolf problem ASAP and in as direct a method as possible.

When the Yellowstone Wolf relocation occurred, 75 wolves from Grande Cache were relocated. Those wolves have exploded in numbers and have spread to Idaho, Colorado, Montana, etc. That is how effective wolves are at reproducing and expanding in range.

Drewski

[Smoky buck]

No offense Keg but at 50$ a wolf most would give up after one day. Most hunters are honestly not going to be effective wolf hunters. Truthfully I live close to wolf country and make the odd half hearted attempt and 50$ would not change my efforts

Now set a mandatory quota on wolves for traplines combined with a 50$ bounty I could see more effective. The fact of the matter is trapping is a far more effective tool. This would also benefit trappers who already target wolves. It might also make those who own traplines as recreational property actually contribute something. Of course quota would need to be realistic

[KegRiver]

Keg,

Fifty bucks on the chance of killing a wolf is not even going to pay the gas to get NEAR where the wolves live, let alone the equipment it takes to actually shoot at a wolf.

That Fifty bucks of course only gets paid after you spend more gas and time taking the wolf to the location where you turn in the wolf to collect the bounty.

In the mean time, there is a predation problem for all the ungulates and especially the Caribou.

SO it appears that we have to get control of the wolf problem ASAP and in as direct a method as possible.

When the Yellowstone Wolf relocation occurred, 75 wolves from Grande Cache were relocated. Those wolves have exploded in numbers and have spread to Idaho, Colorado, Montana, etc. That is how effective wolves are at reproducing and expanding in range.

Drewski

I don't doubt it wouldn't be profitable for you, but there are people who could make a darn good living killing wolves. In fact I know two who do even without a bounty.

[KegRiver]

No offense Keg but at 50$ a wolf most would give up after one day. Most hunters are honestly not going to be effective wolf hunters. Truthfully I live close to wolf country and make the odd half hearted attempt and 50$ would not change my efforts

Now set a mandatory quota on wolves for traplines combined with a 50$ bounty I could see more effective. The fact of the matter is trapping is a far more effective tool. This would also benefit trappers who already target wolves. It might also make those who own traplines as recreational property actually contribute something. Of course quota would need to be realistic

You wouldn't need a quota for trappers,, those who know how to trap wolves would give them more attention just because of the bounty.

A agree, most hunters would not at present be effective wolf hunters and many will never be.
Like any species, wolves require some understanding of their habits and habitat to be successfully hunted on any sort of regular basis.

But anything can be learned.

We also can't forget that a good many hunters target Coyote, crows, and gophers that have no bounty on them.

[RockyMountainMusic]

Actually what I said is if you like everything wiped off the ground in the name of some caribou and you are happy about it then I believe it or said persons to be stupid. It’s not about trapping and yes I do trap although I don’t own a line, I don’t earn a living from trapping. If the wolf killing is saving the caribou why has the herd not increased? Let me guess the breeding pens haven’t been installed to save them yet that’s why right? Lol I can tell you industry has had major impact on the caribou as well and although I don’t oppose industry I also think it should be regulated.. you guys are also jumping to conclusions in thinking I’m against killing wolves to protect animals when in fact it couldn’t be the furthest thing from the truth. I have no use for the poison from what I’ve seen, and if you don’t want to listen to Keg who has great knowledge with it look into or talk to anyone who was involved with it in the 50’s I’ve heard from a few and it’s terrible. I also know F&W officers that are trained with it and use it.I’m not against heli shooting, it’s a little pricey but if that’s a must so be it. But then on the very same hand grizzlies are more than thriving here and it’s also a known fact black bears predates on calves in the spring and yet they are not out there supporting a grizzly hunt are they. Also I hated seeing them try to decimate the moose in 353 for over a decade and shooting health elk and moose out of the chopper is ridiculous. If you shoot an bull elk that is one inch short on an antler point to feed your family the same gov is throwing the book at you and on the other hand decimating a herd so wolves have less of a food source. $50 a wolf sheesh they are spending about 5k an hour with the heli/poison units now. People are entitled to their opinion but if wiping out entire ecosystems is a good thing to “save” one species I can’t help but disagree

[Smoky buck]

You wouldn't need a quota for trappers,, those who know how to trap wolves would give them more attention just because of the bounty.

A agree, most hunters would not at present be effective wolf hunters and many will never be.
Like any species, wolves require some understanding of their habits and habitat to be successfully hunted on any sort of regular basis.

But anything can be learned.

We also can't forget that a good many hunters target Coyote, crows, and gophers that have no bounty on them.

Only reason I suggest applying a quota is if Alberta trappers are like most of the BC trappers who have lines only a small portion target wolves. Most Trappers I know who have lines focus on Marten, fisher, lynx, bobcats and other bread and butter species.

Good wolf trappers would benefit from the bounty but a quota would would make others step up as well

Agree anything can be learned but bet most hunters lack motivation. I could be wrong but I seen clubs put out bounties when I lived in BC and it had very little impact. I remember bounties going as high as 350$ and that didn’t have much impact on wolf hunter numbers

[trigger7mm]

Actually what I said is if you like everything wiped off the ground in the name of some caribou and you are happy about it then I believe it or said persons to be stupid. It’s not about trapping and yes I do trap although I don’t own a line, I don’t earn a living from trapping. If the wolf killing is saving the caribou why has the herd not increased? Let me guess the breeding pens haven’t been installed to save them yet that’s why right? Lol I can tell you industry has had major impact on the caribou as well and although I don’t oppose industry I also think it should be regulated.. you guys are also jumping to conclusions in thinking I’m against killing wolves to protect animals when in fact it couldn’t be the furthest thing from the truth. I have no use for the poison from what I’ve seen, and if you don’t want to listen to Keg who has great knowledge with it look into or talk to anyone who was involved with it in the 50’s I’ve heard from a few and it’s terrible. I also know F&W officers that are trained with it and use it.I’m not against heli shooting, it’s a little pricey but if that’s a must so be it. But then on the very same hand grizzlies are more than thriving here and it’s also a known fact black bears predates on calves in the spring and yet they are not out there supporting a grizzly hunt are they. Also I hated seeing them try to decimate the moose in 353 for over a decade and shooting health elk and moose out of the chopper is ridiculous. If you shoot an bull elk that is one inch short on an antler point to feed your family the same gov is throwing the book at you and on the other hand decimating a herd so wolves have less of a food source. $50 a wolf sheesh they are spending about 5k an hour with the heli/poison units now. People are entitled to their opinion but if wiping out entire ecosystems is a good thing to “save” one species I can’t help but disagree

Bingo! Hit the nail right on the head!

[Big Grey Wolf]

The wolf bounty in BC in the 40's was ~$160. That would equate to over $1600 today. Now that would pay for more expenses than just fuel for your sled.

[marky_mark]

The wolf bounty in BC in the 40's was ~$160. That would equate to over $1600 today. Now that would pay for more expenses than just fuel for your sled.

Compared to all the other bs wasted money this would be a good idea
If you made it an even $1000 and with these covid restrictions
$5-6m would set those wolf numbers back a lot
It would give our ungulates a chance to recover

[Ram94]

Compared to all the other bs wasted money this would be a good idea
If you made it an even $1000 and with these covid restrictions
$5-6m would set those wolf numbers back a lot
It would give our ungulates a chance to recover

I'm liking this idea!

[KegRiver]

Compared to all the other bs wasted money this would be a good idea
If you made it an even $1000 and with these covid restrictions
$5-6m would set those wolf numbers back a lot
It would give our ungulates a chance to recover

I do think a bounty is the way to go.

Although I don't think $1,000 per would be needed I expect even that amount would be cheaper in the long run then the present plan.

Hiring aircraft for aerial control is not cheap and the cost to results ratio for poisoning isn't cost effective so far as I can tell.

I know for many it would have to be very profitable to do or they wouldn't do it but I think enough guys would be happy to do it if their costs were covered and I don't see why $100 per wouldn't do that.

But a little more incentive may be a better idea, say $200 per.

At $1,000 per one could attract too much interest.

Too many people in the bush hunting wolves would just make wolves more wary and thus much harder to hunt.

I already see that with Coyote calling.

FWIW I have hunted wolves recently without much success. But I have sot several in my life.
It takes a lot more then just willingness or profit to be effective.

As I licensed trapper, (when I was one) I could sell a wolf hide for 100 to 400 and I certainly had the equipment and knowledge. What I didn't have was access to a good area. There weren't a lot of wolves around back then.
No where near the numbers there are today.

I think that is due in large part to anti trapping efforts and gun control.

Back then I never went anywhere around here without a rifle, now I almost never carry one. It's too much hassle to have to go through the third degree every time a Peace officer finds you with a rifle.
I don't like being treated like a criminal or a wanna be mass murderer.

[marky_mark]

I do think a bounty is the way to go.

Although I don't think $1,000 per would be needed I expect even that amount would be cheaper in the long run then the present plan.

Hiring aircraft for aerial control is not cheap and the cost to results ratio for poisoning isn't cost effective so far as I can tell.

I know for many it would have to be very profitable to do or they wouldn't do it but I think enough guys would be happy to do it if their costs were covered and I don't see why $100 per wouldn't do that.

But a little more incentive may be a better idea, say $200 per.

At $1,000 per one could attract too much interest.

Too many people in the bush hunting wolves would just make wolves more wary and thus much harder to hunt.

I already see that with Coyote calling.

FWIW I have hunted wolves recently without much success. But I have sot several in my life.
It takes a lot more then just willingness or profit to be effective.

As I licensed trapper, (when I was one) I could sell a wolf hide for 100 to 400 and I certainly had the equipment and knowledge. What I didn't have was access to a good area. There weren't a lot of wolves around back then.
No where near the numbers there are today.

I think that is due in large part to anti trapping efforts and gun control.

Back then I never went anywhere around here without a rifle, now I almost never carry one. It's too much hassle to have to go through the third degree every time a Peace officer finds you with a rifle.
I don't like being treated like a criminal or a wanna be mass murderer.

$1000/ wolf = a lot of dead wolves

That’s my math
For that much money, guys are going to seriously target them
You wipe out a pack, that could be 10k
10k to lots of people these days is a big deal

Kind of like a combined stimulus and conservation package
Do the same for cougars

Pea

[bdub]

I don't think killing wolves is that easy of a proposition. You guys make it seem like you can just offer a bounty and guys will be able to just hop on the "ol quad" and go blast a pack of wolves at will. They aren't that easy to kill unless you want to spend a ton of time baiting and waiting, or you get lucky once in a blue moon calling or just luckily stumble into them. Look at the success rates and effort that the outfitters targeting wolves put in. Poison is the only economical solution to controlling their numbers.

[Grizzly Adams]

I don't think killing wolves is that easy of a proposition. You guys make it seem like you can just offer a bounty and guys will be able to just hop on the "ol quad" and go blast a pack of wolves at will. They aren't that easy to kill unless you want to spend a ton of time baiting and waiting, or you get lucky once in a blue moon calling or just luckily stumble into them. Look at the success rates and effort that the outfitters targeting wolves put in. Poison is the only economical solution to controlling their numbers.

I like hunting wolves because it's a challenge, people like me will never put a real dent in the population though.


Grizz

[bdub]

I like hunting wolves because it's a challenge, people like me will never put a real dent in the population though.


Grizz

Agreed. I don’t think there is anything harder to hunt.

[marky_mark]

I don't think killing wolves is that easy of a proposition. You guys make it seem like you can just offer a bounty and guys will be able to just hop on the "ol quad" and go blast a pack of wolves at will. They aren't that easy to kill unless you want to spend a ton of time baiting and waiting, or you get lucky once in a blue moon calling or just luckily stumble into them. Look at the success rates and effort that the outfitters targeting wolves put in. Poison is the only economical solution to controlling their numbers.

For $1000/wolf people are going to try pretty hard

If it was as easy hopping on the quad and blasting a pack we wouldn’t be in this situation. Some people would be successful, some very successful, and some won’t shoot any.

They aren’t that hard to kill either. Biggest thing is being where the wolves are. Not where they have been.

The chances of this happening is around 0% but it would give people something to do

[bdub]

For $1000/wolf people are going to try pretty hard

If it was as easy hopping on the quad and blasting a pack we wouldn’t be in this situation. Some people would be successful, some very successful, and some won’t shoot any.

They aren’t that hard to kill either. Biggest thing is being where the wolves are. Not where they have been.

The chances of this happening is around 0% but it would give people something to do

Thanks tips.

[marky_mark]

Thanks tips.

Lol then go kill some

[bdub]

Lol then go kill some

Lol, with this new bit of info they don't stand chance.

[Tronneroi]

Marten hills in 511. Saw a dozen or so last year in October. About the same a year ago. Those suckers have taken over out there. Hang out there for ten days and you should be able to walk out with a couple. Unless you're shooting the one's with body armor like I was...

[hunterngather]

A 1000 dollar bounty I think would create something worse that what is intended tbh.

I really do think this should be an issue put forward to the political figures.

I want my kids and grand kids to have the opportunity the hunt moose and elk for food.

An accurate count that goes beyond anecdotes will be the start of figuring out how to ensure we have game meat for generations in our province.

Idk. Doing nothing ends in no meat imo.

[Ronaround]

Hunting in 531 2 years ago for moose, we saw large amounts of tracks. the fire roads and access roads was covered with running it. I saw two during that time but each was making double time for cover by the time we saw them,
i sure wish i could set some steel and snares. success would have been better odds than the mystical moose...lol

[marky_mark]

A 1000 dollar bounty I think would create something worse that what is intended tbh.

I really do think this should be an issue put forward to the political figures.

I want my kids and grand kids to have the opportunity the hunt moose and elk for food.

An accurate count that goes beyond anecdotes will be the start of figuring out how to ensure we have game meat for generations in our province.

Idk. Doing nothing ends in no meat imo.

Why waste money counting them?
Count them when they are dead

[buckman]

Dont quote me on this but from what I have been led to believe in order to have significant reduction of wolf numbers, you have to kill the whole pack.
Shooting one or two if your lucky wont work. As long as a pair remains they simply breed again. This is why the controversial method of poisoning was so effective in the last century.

I have shot several while hunting for elk, none while targeting them as a single quarry,its fun trying though.

I know of several areas they pass through and if you get lucky you may hit them at the right time. I have found if the elk are there the wolves will show up.

[Grizzly Adams]

Dont quote me on this but from what I have been led to believe in order to have significant reduction of wolf numbers, you have to kill the whole pack.
Shooting one or two if your lucky wont work. As long as a pair remains they simply breed again. This is why the controversial method of poisoning was so effective in the last century.

I have shot several while hunting for elk, none while targeting them as a single quarry,its fun trying though.

I know of several areas they pass through and if you get lucky you may hit them at the right time. I have found if the elk are there the wolves will show up.

That's the same argument they give for feral hogs, recreational hunting is actually counter productive, according to some "experts".

Grizz

[NCC]

Every dead wolf helps the ungulates. Some are independent killers, and in my experience, if a pack gets whittled down it will be displaced or killed by another pack.

If we want forest and mountain ungulate numbers to return to what we had in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s, wolves, cougars and gbears need to be managed. I’m all for heli hunting, poisoning, trapper incentives, or whatever else it takes to reduce wolf numbers. As for hunting, wolves should have the same regulations as gophers; no seasons, no license requirements, and no requirement to salvage the pelt. Any trap lines that don’t have snares hung by Dec 1 should be opened up to resident trappers for the rest of the season.

Lots of wolves in 521; one buddy snared 4 or 5 last week and another shot 2 on his line. We killed about 30 (shot and snared) on our farm when I lived up there and the increase in elk and moose numbers reflected our efforts.

[59whiskers]

Lots of wolves in 400 and 402. They move around a lot. Hear the howling on occasion.

[-JR-]

The zone I hunt they poisoned the wolfs . Did not see one wolf track or any crows.

Did see many Grizzlies and their tracks .


With the high population of wolfs and bears a person should be allowed to shoot them like gophers and leave them in the bush with fur on as we can not even sell them unless you are a trapper.

[cowmanbob]

With the high population of wolfs and bears a person should be allowed to shoot them like gophers and leave them in the bush with fur on as we can not even sell them unless you are a trapper.

Where did you come up with this tidbit of false information?

[Phil McCracken]

The zone I hunt they poisoned the wolfs . Did not see one wolf track or any crows.

Did see many Grizzlies and their tracks .


With the high population of wolfs and bears a person should be allowed to shoot them like gophers and leave them in the bush with fur on as we can not even sell them unless you are a trapper.

Thought they didn't poison them anymore?

[KegRiver]

Thought they didn't poison them anymore?

In some areas poison is still used, I posted results from one poisoning program a few posts back.

The problem is they are not using the poison effectively 65 wolves killed in 5 years does nothing to reduce the population.
And it's o where near what is possible.

A couple of breeding pairs could replace those losses and then some.

buckman is right, shooting one or two out of a pack does nothing in the long run and can even backfire in spectacular fashion.

So long as the Alpha female survives she will prevent her daughters from breeding but remove her and they all breed.

A pack left alone will produce one litter a year, kill the Alpha female and that pack can and often does produce several litters the next year.

The same thing happens with Beaver. We can see how effective hunting is at reducing their numbers, and that is why.

Most counties have a beaver hunter on staff or offer bounty for beaver.
Nether have the desired effect.

I was employed as the local beaver control agent in this county for a couple of years and when I worked highway maintenance we were tasked with shooting any beaver that tried to set up within highway right-of-ways in our district.

I have also lived next to, as well as hunted and trapped wolves since I was old enough to leave the yard by myself.

Wolves are not easy to trap or to hunt. Both take a lot of time and effort to learn to do effectively.

[big zeke]

I think we're all in vigorous agreement that the numbers need to be pruned. The current efforts aren't effective, personally I'm OK with poison as well as a bounty, perhaps both. We can adjust the plan once the northern WMUs get overrun with moose.

If funding is required I'd be OK with maybe a $10-20 surcharge on every tag bought for WMUs north of Hwy 16 or west of Hwy 2 to fund the bounty...kinda like what is done for salmon by DFO.

We can debate the amount but it has to significant enough to motivate folks...I'd be OK with $500 and throttle back once the ungulates have recovered.

Waiting or debating with no actions will turns us all in vegans.
Zeke

[NCC]

I’m on the same page as Big Zeke. If we do nothing, most of the participants of this forum will not live long enough to draw two more moose tags in their lifetime.

Does anyone have any scientific proof that shooting one or two wolves causes the wolf population to explode? From my anecdotal experience, shooting one or two, and in particular if you kill one of the alphas, the hierarchy is disrupted, they can’t hunt as effectively, they are sometimes killed by other packs, and they get more desperate and easier to kill as the pack gets smaller.

[marky_mark]

I’m on the same page as Big Zeke. If we do nothing, most of the participants of this forum will not live long enough to draw two more moose tags in their lifetime.

Does anyone have any scientific proof that shooting one or two wolves causes the wolf population to explode? From my anecdotal experience, shooting one or two, and in particular if you kill one of the alphas, the hierarchy is disrupted, they can’t hunt as effectively, they are sometimes killed by other packs, and they get more desperate and easier to kill as the pack gets smaller.

I know I shoot all the ones I see
And I see less and less

[Big Grey Wolf]

Although I always have high respect for Keg as he and his father who handled wolf kill in the 50's have major experience to draw from on wolf pack dynamics. However I agree with NCC, when you take out Any wolves the pack has less killing ability to take down a moose. Also a larger pack that catches them in their territory will lay a major licking on the small pack.

[Grizzly Adams]

Interesting video to watch. The claim is the Wood Buffalo wolves are extraordinary large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guPVxL7B77A

Grizz

[3blade]

Every dead wolf helps the ungulates. Some are independent killers, and in my experience, if a pack gets whittled down it will be displaced or killed by another pack.

If we want forest and mountain ungulate numbers to return to what we had in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s, wolves, cougars and gbears need to be managed. I’m all for heli hunting, poisoning, trapper incentives, or whatever else it takes to reduce wolf numbers. As for hunting, wolves should have the same regulations as gophers; no seasons, no license requirements, and no requirement to salvage the pelt. Any trap lines that don’t have snares hung by Dec 1 should be opened up to resident trappers for the rest of the season.

Lots of wolves in 521; one buddy snared 4 or 5 last week and another shot 2 on his line. We killed about 30 (shot and snared) on our farm when I lived up there and the increase in elk and moose numbers reflected our efforts.

This ^

The problem is too many predators. If you only lower the wolf numbers, grizzlies and lions will take the ungulates you tried to save. People just need to start trapping and shooting and NOT taking pictures or talking about it. The bios have no interest in actually solving the problem, that problem is their job security.

The whole “pack split = more wolves” is complete nonsense. One of those stupid theories that gets repeated too often and people start believing it. Wolves are taught how to hunt, and hunt better in a large pack. Less adults, lower numbers = less prey killed.

Hunting them does absolutely make them more wary and nomadic though. And ya, the bounty needs to be at $1000 before enough people will get after em to really change the picture

[Smithwess]

I've seen lots of tracks in 346, lots. The only one I saw in the flesh is looking pretty in my profile pic. I was planning on taking a week or so this winter to dedicate to hunting them there but that didn't end up happening unfortunately.