So what do you think

[Howard Hutchinson]

I am and have always been a CFL/Eskimo fan. In these curious times, what do you all think and can it work?

https://calgarysun.com/sports/football/cfl/cfl-xfl-talks-about-much-more-than-a-merger

[HalfBreed]

While I no longer watch the foosball, I did when the XFL made it's disastrous debut, I'm sure NBC wished they had that back. It would appear to be improvident at this time. Perhaps if XFL was established bringing more to the table, otherwise it might be wise to wait and see if people actually want to sit in stadiums when the time comes.

[sns2]

The CFL is dead without a fundamental change. The three biggest markets lose 10s of millions (BC, TO, MON). Braley family can't even find a buyer for the Lions. Sport is irrelevant in those 3 markets, and with younger sports fans across the country. Eventually the owners will get tired and say to hell with it. Without franchises in those markets, there is no TV deal like they have now where 40% of revenue comes from TSN.

If anyone thinks that Americans are gonna play 3 down football with 12 men on a huge field then they need a reality check. Sure they will let us play their brand of the game. Why wouldn't they? But Canadian teams will only do as well as this new league does, and any serious football fan knows that startup football leagues going against the NFL have died a slow death.

Remember the USFL???

I'm afraid that we have seen the end of the CFL as we have known it all our lives.

[Trochu]

The CFL is dead without a fundamental change. The three biggest markets lose 10s of millions (BC, TO, MON). Braley family can't even find a buyer for the Lions. Sport is irrelevant in those 3 markets, and with younger sports fans across the country. Eventually the owners will get tired and say to hell with it. Without franchises in those markets, there is no TV deal like they have now where 40% of revenue comes from TSN.

If anyone thinks that Americans are gonna play 3 down football with 12 men on a huge field then they need a reality check. Sure they will let us play their brand of the game. Why wouldn't they? But Canadian teams will only do as well as this new league does, and any serious football fan knows that startup football leagues going against the NFL have died a slow death.

Remember the USFL???

I'm afraid that we have seen the end of the CFL as we have known it all our lives.

Not sure if I disagree with your conclusion but I don't think how you got there is entirely accurate. For example, TSN's deal is approx. $50M per year, for nine teams, that's $5.56M/year per team from the deal. If that was 40%, you're suggesting their revenue for the year is $13.9M per team, for a league total of $125.1M.

CFL financial figures are a bit hard to come by, but this, https://3downnation.com/2019/01/18/cfl-players-may-be-getting-just-22-per-cent-of-league-revenues/, suggest league revenue is closer to double that, at $210M. If that's the case, as soon as fans are allowed back, the CFL should continue on.

[HyperMOA]

I miss the CFL. I really hope we have football this year. I hope the CFL survives. It’s truly the only sport I care about.

[pinelakeperch]

The XFL is a sideshow, so in my opinion, the connection between the two leagues cheapens the CFL. With that said, it doesn't appear that the CFL is sustainable without some help. The CFL is a Canadian institution, and I would've wholeheartedly supported federal dollars going to the league.

I sure hope I can watch Bo Levi sling a few this summer!

[markg]

I think the only hope for both of these leagues is to position themselves as a farm system for the NFL.

All the other major leagues have farms systems and its time that the NFL did as well. Seems to make the most sense to me.

It does mean that the Canadian ruleset is a relic of the past.

[markg]

I miss the CFL. I really hope we have football this year. I hope the CFL survives. It’s truly the only sport I care about.

I disagree. I find the CFL boring. PUNT PUNT PUNT PUNT PUNT. I like the chess match of long sustained drives. Its more cerebral. Just my opinion. I know there are lots of others out there like you who love the game. I wish you all the best but I believe the writting is on the wall for the CFL.

[HyperMOA]

I disagree. I find the CFL boring. PUNT PUNT PUNT PUNT PUNT. I like the chess match of long sustained drives. Its more cerebral. Just my opinion. I know there are lots of others out there like you who love the game. I wish you all the best but I believe the writting is on the wall for the CFL.

So you like the chess game that is rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, rush. Yes very cerebral. Sorry man. I hate 4 down football.

[1899b]

A pro league that consists of athletes that have to sell cars and insurance in the off season to feed their families doesn’t sound very pro to me. If the league can’t make it on its own they can’t make it. Oh well...

[1899b]

I think the only hope for both of these leagues is to position themselves as a farm system for the NFL.

All the other major leagues have farms systems and its time that the NFL did as well. Seems to make the most sense to me.

It does mean that the Canadian ruleset is a relic of the past.

Only problem is is that the NFL would have to be on board. The NFL has a college system to pick from that makes the CFL look amateur.

The CFL needs the NFL. Not vice versa...

[nick0danger]

Only problem is is that the NFL would have to be on board. The NFL has a college system to pick from that makes the CFL look amateur.

They CFL needs the NFL. Not vice versa...

NFL has been pulling players from the CFL in greater numbers for quite a few years. Yes they will give draft pick more time, but they I bet almost every team loses at least 1 player to the NFL each season with some teams losing several each season.

[markg]

So you like the chess game that is rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, rush. Yes very cerebral. Sorry man. I hate 4 down football.

I understand to each there own. Thats why its a free country and we can vote with our dollars. I just hope you get to enjoy some games this year.

[markg]

Only problem is is that the NFL would have to be on board. The NFL has a college system to pick from that makes the CFL look amateur.

The CFL needs the NFL. Not vice versa...

I agree with you and disagree. College provides the talent. They need a league to develop that talent. Not all players are mature in there early 20's both physically and mentally. These players would really benefit from some place to play and work on there development. A CFL / XFL merger with the NFL that would give each team a "farm team" would be great all round.

Canadians would need to shift there perspective a bit though because it would likely require our teams to play using the same rules as the NFL. I think all parties would get something out of an arrangement like that. We as Canadians would still get to watch games locally. The players would have a place to develop and grow. The NFL would be able to access and Manage more talent. Cities with farm teams would develop an affinity to the parent club and that would also grow and develop the NFL brand. Seems like a WIN/ WIN /WIN

PS EDIT
Not to mention the influx of capital it would provide to the local communities in the form of infrastructure of new stadiums.

[Walleyedude]

The CFL is an institution, it's been around for a hundred years, and it'll be around for a lot longer. IMHO, it's not going anywhere, in fact, my money is on it seeing a resurgence in popularity when Canadians are finally free to go to stadiums and enjoy life again. The CFL is a gate driven league, and that resurgence should also help to boost revenues.

IMHO, a partnership or link with the XFL is a BAD idea. I truly believe it cheapens the CFL brand, and will make the league weaker in the end, not stronger. The money behind the XFL might pay some lip service to it, but I'm pretty sure they don't really give a damn about the history and integrity of the CFL game. It's a business opportunity to make some cash and keep their failing league afloat. The CFL should be running away from these talks.

The concept of a "farm team" league is flawed IMHO. Football is a young man's game, and an average NFL career is short, like maybe 2-3 years. The majority of careers are over by the time you're in your mid 20's. If you're not ready to go coming out of college, or you're unable to pick it up and get the job done in a year or two, you're pretty much out of luck. There are very few players who struggle early and then excel later in their careers. It's a brutal game, and there is no shortage of talent.

Get a team established in the Maritimes, get the butts back in the seats, and get on with the business of being the CFL.

P.S. I'm not a big CFL guy, I much prefer the NFL, but if I can, I plan to take in a couple Rider games this summer.

[sns2]

So you like the chess game that is rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, rush. Yes very cerebral. Sorry man. I hate 4 down football.

Mistaken perception. The NFL has turned to passing so much that for the last decade, passing and receiving records that were for a long time deemed untouchable, fall like leaves off the trees in the fall. NFL is definitely a passing league.

[Howard Hutchinson]

Not sure what a blending of the 2 leagues might look like, for sure. Yet I feel that if the death of the CFL (as pointed to by members, yet don't believe it) is imminent, why not try something? Now I know hindsight is 20/20 so could there not be a trial contract period drawn up. Say 5 years? Again, I have no idea what this looks like and may be talking out my tail feathers. Dwayne Johnson seems like an honest fellow and having somewhat of a vested interest, having been a player, maybe his goal is true and honest? I feel that I can trust him further than Vince McMahon, that is for sure

As I have stated, I love the CFL and all it stands for. Maybe it is time the CFL became larger than what it has come to be, in these changing times.

Then again, if it fails the CFL may very well be in worse shape. So who knows.

There are many great minds out there, with true hearts. We shall see I guess.

[sns2]

NFL is richest pro league in North America. XFL, regardless of who owns it, is an upstart, and we all know what has happened with every upstart that has sprouted up since the AFL and NFL merged.

Guys, the CFL is run like a farm league to begin with; just look at the wages of assistant coaches and the bottom half of the players. Then, keep in mind they live in the US, most often have to maintain two residences, and they get paid in CDN dollars. Other than a handful of stars on each team, as well as GM and Head Coach, no one is rolling in dough. Might as well be an official farm league of the biggest kid on the block. At the very least, the NFL has the resources to bankroll our league if/when the next rainy day comes, but only if we were serving an official purpose for them as a developmental league.

Only constant in life is change, but the writing is on the wall that Covid has dealt a death blow to our grand old, quirky league.

Wish it weren't true, but it likely is.

I blame the idiotic commissioner who went hat in hand last spring and asked for mega taxpayers money with nothing to back up their ask. He shoulda been sacked right after, but the truth of the matter is that the owners likely didn't want to pony up and pay out his contract.

[Walleyedude]

NFL is richest pro league in North America. XFL, regardless of who owns it, is an upstart, and we all know what has happened with every upstart that has sprouted up since the AFL and NFL merged.

Guys, the CFL is run like a farm league to begin with; just look at the wages of assistant coaches and the bottom half of the players. Then, keep in mind they live in the US, most often have to maintain two residences, and they get paid in CDN dollars. Other than a handful of stars on each team, as well as GM and Head Coach, no one is rolling in dough. Might as well be an official farm league of the biggest kid on the block. At the very least, the NFL has the resources to bankroll our league if/when the next rainy day comes, but only if we were serving an official purpose for them as a developmental league.

Only constant in life is change, but the writing is on the wall that Covid has dealt a death blow to our grand old, quirky league.

Wish it weren't true, but it likely is.

I blame the idiotic commissioner who went hat in hand last spring and asked for mega taxpayers money with nothing to back up their ask. He shoulda been sacked right after, but the truth of the matter is that the owners likely didn't want to pony up and pay out his contract.

I think that deal already exists with the NFL, and they throw a few loonies our way for the trouble. The NFL already gets its pick of anyone in the CFL they want and they can draft our Canadian talent, and it basically costs them nothing, I see no reason for them to change that. There's only small handful of guys per year that make their way to the NFL, of which 1/3 or maybe 1/4 actually stick beyond the practice roster, and maybe 1 or 2 a decade make an impact. The rest come back to the CFL, if the NFL doesn't break them first.

You play in the CFL for the love of the game, and the fact it's a better pay cheque than selling cars or insurance, or doing manual labor somewhere for those 6 months of the year. It's a short term gig. I'm sure there's too many players that throw around cash and pretend they're big time, but I think there's far more that see the CFL for exactly what it is. The chance to live the dream of being a pro athlete. Knowing full well that they will still have to "work for a living" when their careers are over, or even during their careers.

I really don't share your pessimism regarding the CFL's future, there have been FAR darker days in the past, but I do agree that the commissioner and those in the inner circle advising him and the CFL should have been run off after that debacle.

[Bigwoodsman]

Mistaken perception. The NFL has turned to passing so much that for the last decade, passing and receiving records that were for a long time deemed untouchable, fall like leaves off the trees in the fall. NFL is definitely a passing league.

If they do this I hope they don’t end up with a triple A nfl.

I’d like to see them keep the cfl rules on a nfl sized field. The cfl game is much better than the nfl game. Two different games need to be kept.

BW

[markg]

Most players who play NCAA play in bigger stadiums than the CFL stadiums. They are treated better than most CFL players, have better trainers and coaches and facilities as well. The cost of the education is likely higher than what they are paid as pros' in the CFL.

The number of people who tune on TV to the games is likely larger as well. (speculation on this one)

The Alabama Crimson Tide stadium holds 100,077 ($266 average a game)
McMahon Stadium 36, 650 ($37)


I think its likely a downgrade for most of them to play here.


PS (edit) Found this link that shows the capacity of the different stadiums in the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capacity

PSS Found a link on Canadian stadiums

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_Football_stadiums_by_capacity

[trigger7mm]

If I had a choice I’d rather go to an Eskimos game more than any other sporting event. They are always a good time. I’ve been to many other the last 50 years and have never been to one in which the Eskimos lost.

[HyperMOA]

Mistaken perception. The NFL has turned to passing so much that for the last decade, passing and receiving records that were for a long time deemed untouchable, fall like leaves off the trees in the fall. NFL is definitely a passing league.

I’ll take your word for it. Have t watched an NFL game in probably 20 years. Rather watch darts.

[HyperMOA]

Only constant in life is change, but the writing is on the wall that Covid has dealt a death blow to our grand old, quirky league.

Wish it weren't true, but it likely is.

I blame the idiotic commissioner who went hat in hand last spring and asked for mega taxpayers money with nothing to back up their ask. He shoulda been sacked right after, but the truth of the matter is that the owners likely didn't want to pony up and pay out his contract.

If the CFL fails I’d rather see them die fighting to keep the CFL than to make some joke 4 down game that you think will somehow service the NFL. No CFL is better. Do they need to do better promoting and bringing people in, certainly. Do we need a different game, definitely not.

The CFL asked for quite a small sum of money AS A LOAN in the grand scheme of things. Every other employer could apply for assistance why couldn’t the CFL? They have employees too. Why does my employer receive hundreds of millions of dollars in CEWS payments but the CFL can’t secure a no interest loan? Come on. Asking for help is much different than holding ones hands out. If the CFL was more important to montrealers it would’ve been ok. If the bombardier family owned the alouettes the league woulda been given billions.

[hilt134]

We could just let it die, and watch real sports like soccer... :scared0018:

I think I agree with sns2 it doesn’t make sense to try and piggy back on a starting up league.

[PartTimeHunter]

Not a fan of this merger idea. If they do and go to four downs that'll be the end of it for me. I don't watch NFL now.

[sns2]

If the CFL fails I’d rather see them die fighting to keep the CFL than to make some joke 4 down game that you think will somehow service the NFL. No CFL is better. Do they need to do better promoting and bringing people in, certainly. Do we need a different game, definitely not.

The CFL asked for quite a small sum of money AS A LOAN in the grand scheme of things. Every other employer could apply for assistance why couldn’t the CFL? They have employees too. Why does my employer receive hundreds of millions of dollars in CEWS payments but the CFL can’t secure a no interest loan? Come on. Asking for help is much different than holding ones hands out. If the CFL was more important to montrealers it would’ve been ok. If the bombardier family owned the alouettes the league woulda been given billions.

Umm, when you are dealing with millions of dollars, and calling someone out, best to know what you are talking about...

https://globalnews.ca/news/7164425/cfl-revised-financial-request-federal-government/#:~:text=A%20CFL%20source%20said%20Friday,to%20the %20COVID%2D19%20pandemic.

[huntwat]

Haven’t watched the cfl since Warren Moon left. I don’t think I’ve missed anything.

[HyperMOA]

Umm, when you are dealing with millions of dollars, and calling someone out, best to know what you are talking about...

https://globalnews.ca/news/7164425/cfl-revised-financial-request-federal-government/#:~:text=A%20CFL%20source%20said%20Friday,to%20the %20COVID%2D19%20pandemic.

So what did I say wrong? My employer I believe is in the hundreds of millions in aid. They were asking for help too. They also asked for interest free loans (not mentioned in this article). What did I say that was untrue? I don’t believe in subsidizing the league just FYI. But watching the hundreds of billions (we actually have no idea how much it is,as we don’t do budgets anymore. likely closer to half a trillion or more on Covid) and loans can’t be issued to a 100+ year Canadian institution is just sad.

Did your employer absorb the extra costs of Covid, or were all the extra PPE and cleaning come from the education system “holding out its hand?” Not trying to start a big fight here, or pick on your employer, just pointing that many many industries in Canada had their hand out. Why the CFL couldn’t subsidize their employees while so many others like my employer collects hundreds of millions of dollars marking record high stock prices while still paying dividends seems like a bigger waste to me than supporting the CFL.

How many contracts did SNC Lavalin acquire in this time? How much was WE paid to mail out cheques? Sorry SNS, I’m pretty conservative but when the billions are pouring out so fast that nobody can audit it, it was a snub to exclude the CFL.

Edit: I also stated that the CFL was asking for a small sum of money in my original post you quoted. That was meant to read, “The CFL was asking for a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things.” That was confusing having read it again.