$30/yr random camping fee

[JB_AOL]

Surprised this wasn't posted yet..


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-proposing-new-30-annual-random-camping-permits-this-year-1.5954254

I think this is drastically needed, BUT only if the majority of the proceeds go to enforcement.

[sewerrat]

I have no problem with that, $30 annually is still cheap, should be at least double Taxpayers that don't use random camping or crownland camping don't need to help foot the bill for clean up by what pig campers leave behind.

[Smoky buck]

Won’t solve the problem just a new way to collect money from the public in my opinion

Offenders could have been fined do to littering and environmental offenses if it was really about addressing the issue

[Geraldsh]

The number of campers has quadrupled since Covid and they all need to learn that the land can tolerate only so much abuse. I agree with the user fee approach but also think a lot more littering fines should be handed out.

[270person]

Make it $30 a night. Thin out the swine herds.

[pikergolf]

Make it $30 a night. Thin out the swine herds.

This, it is unfathomable to me that people out there random camping and leaving a pig sty is considered normal behavior in Alberta. Not enough wilderness and to many people. Good gawd, the feces alone is enough to make a guy gag.

[TrollGRG]

Make it $30 a night. Thin out the swine herds.

Obviously you are not on a fixed income (pension) that your buddy in Ottawa is trying to take away.

Just to be clear... I do support the $30/yr but not any more than that. The penalties should be directed to the abusers.

[EZM]

This, it is unfathomable to me that people out there random camping and leaving a pig sty is considered normal behavior in Alberta. Not enough wilderness and to many people. Good gawd, the feces alone is enough to make a guy gag.

Yup people are disgusting.

We were camping mid week, early season, camp ground pretty empty. In our immediate area maybe 3-4 camp sites and all separated by a slot or two.

Came back to our campsite at Pigeon Lake one evening and noticed one of the bushes right next to our camp site and quite near (maybe 25-30 feet) from where we cook was "decorated" with toilet paper like tp and crap ribbons on a Christmas tree.

Seems to have been a pretty good place for some idiot to take a dump I guess and let the paper get blown into the bushes ..... what disgusting pigs do this?

Ironically, the bathrooms were less than 100m away .......... unblvbl

so this happens in camp grounds too.

[Mavrick]

I agree $30. is ok, but I have always budget myself accordingly. What I mean is that I only have so much money monthly, yearly, so if I have to pay more for this, it has to be taken from someone. I afraid it is charities and other donations that will be clawed back again. 30 may not snap the back this time, but add it up over a year and it takes a guys living money away fast.

[blgoodbrand1]

The 30$ isn’t the end game....the ability to levy a large fine to those who don’t have a permit will be tho.


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[Mulehahn]

The 30$ isn’t the end game....the ability to levy a large fine to those who don’t have a permit will be tho.


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This! And make no mistake, unlike handing out fines for littering they will have no trouble finding people to enforce this.

That being said $30 for the year is reasonable. User pay system. With gas going so be well over a dollar by Summer 30 for a whole year is probably not going to make it break a trip.

[hilt134]

Can’t see it Changing much. Just another tax to be paid

[bezzola]

Lol and guess who is probably going to be excempt from the fee.

[JB_AOL]

Lol and guess who is probably going to be excempt from the fee.

Vaxxers?

Oops wrong thread..lol

[JohninAB]

One more tax for us to enjoy the outdoors while others will probably enjoy it for free. No way do I support it.

Tired of paying the freight only because of the color of my skin.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Can’t see it Changing much. Just another tax to be paid

X2, let’s give them our money, it’s for everyone’s good don’t ya know. I’d support harsher fines for those that break the rules. No need for group punishment.

[oldgutpile]

I am totally in favor of a minor fee. I only use the backcountry for about two weeks of the year, but it would be nice to see a bit of enforcement to hammer on the slobs. If my thirty bucks goes towards that, it's money well spent!
Have to say, I was back in the carbondale for a week of elk season last year, and all the camp areas seemed in good shape with no blatant pig-styes that a lot of people are complaining about. Even that late in the year, people were really out to enjoy the area and it was FULL! That many people kicking in for maintaining the area should be a good thing.

[70chevy]

Just wondering if this is per person or family?Family with 3 kids would be 150.00

[TrollGRG]

Don't even think it. Someone may be watching

[270person]

Obviously you are not on a fixed income (pension) that your buddy in Ottawa is trying to take away.

Just to be clear... I do support the $30/yr but not any more than that. The penalties should be directed to the abusers.


Oh ya. Justin and I talked regularly on Facebook.

Give your head a shake.

[Redfrog]

The 30 bux isn't really a big deal. Just another tax that solves nothing, BUt like Mulehan said those same enforcement personnel who struggled to find and fine the litterers will have no problem fining those with no 30 dollar permit.

[Howard Hutchinson]

The concept is wonderful yet pigs will be pigs and it will be very tough to monitor. I haven't read it yet does this entitle anyone to pull over anywhere they wish and camp?

[huntwat]

$30 is fair. The fine for littering while random camping should be huge.

[Howard Hutchinson]

It will cost a bundle to follow-up on whomever was at that spot to ticket them. Also, I can see it now. "that litter was there when we got there" Then down the road we go...

Camp in designated spots. Maybe specify 'some' new areas? Yet, that is it.

Mother nature is in enough trouble right now.

[Dynamic]

Another day, another fee. Unless this fee is super easy to implement, easy to pay for (a few clicks on a smart phone), and the money actually goes to enforcement it’s hard for me to support this. I don’t random camp but is it really then wild west out there? Overall it just sucks these losers go camping, leave a mess, and pretty much force us to have this discussion.

[skidderman]

Another tax that will not stop the idiots. There should be a $2000 fine for littering. That might wake a few up.

[huntwat]

It will cost a bundle to follow-up on whomever was at that spot to ticket them. Also, I can see it now. "that litter was there when we got there" Then down the road we go...

Camp in designated spots. Maybe specify 'some' new areas? Yet, that is it.

Mother nature is in enough trouble right now.

The co's travel through regularly, Stop at each spot and pick one licenced vehicle. Tell them they are responsible for clean up. Have them take pics upon departure, for their protection. If the co finds litter, at least he has something to follow up on. Once this process is established, there will be no 'It was already there".

[ctd]

I think the road tax fuel I pay for my off-road vehicle should go to the outdoors. I think my registration fee for my off highway vehicle should go to the outdoors. Directly
I not for s second think they need to charge a fee for back country use. Once we go down that road it will get worse.
I already pay fees to go hunting, and I buy tags I never intend to use unless I happen to come across the animal by mistake.

I also do the majority of my camping during hunting season. As I spend a week or more out hunting. So now they want me to pay another fee on top of the fees I pay to hunt.

If they have a problem with people leaving garbage, wrecking the trails then start to fine them.

Instead they are to busy handing out no insurance tickets to kids riding 50cc bikes and quads, all under the guise of public safety.

Better use of enforcement out west would go a long ways to dealing with the issues. The government say they are broke, yet when they are rich we dont get a break.
No more fees. We already pay enough. :shark:

[Badgerbadger]

I don't feel the need to pay to use something I already own.

I don't get why so many others of you feel like you need to give the government more money for what you already give them money for, but hey, give 'er! Those corporations aren't going to subsidize themselves!

[huntwat]

The co's travel through regularly, Stop at each spot and pick one licenced vehicle. Tell them they are responsible for clean up. Have them take pics upon departure, for their protection. If the co finds litter, at least he has something to follow up on. Once this process is established, there will be no 'It was already there".
To add. Before any fees need to be charged, all areas closed by our last government need to be reopened.

[huntsfurfish]

Make it $30 a night. Thin out the swine herds.

This, it is unfathomable to me that people out there random camping and leaving a pig sty is considered normal behavior in Alberta. Not enough wilderness and to many people. Good gawd, the feces alone is enough to make a guy gag.

Got it right! $30.00 per night would be great!

[hilt134]

The co's travel through regularly, Stop at each spot and pick one licenced vehicle. Tell them they are responsible for clean up. Have them take pics upon departure, for their protection. If the co finds litter, at least he has something to follow up on. Once this process is established, there will be no 'It was already there".

I can’t see 30$ a person raising enough money to cover this sort of enforcement. In order to make a system like that work the CO’s are going to have to pass through these areas at a minimum once a day, otherwise if a more than a day passes it really could be anyone’s trash. It would really take the randomness out of the camping, you can’t expect someone to be held liable for the site for an unspecified amount of time. if the co is rolling through at a set time and inspecting every site before you leave so they know you where clean. I don’t see how that’s much different from a regular campground.

Also the person who is purposing the fee in the article says the money will go toward conservation, not necessarily enforcement. Likely there’s a chance that the officers who currently aren’t managing the level of enforcement needed won’t get the budgetary increase to up the enforcement.

[Howard Hutchinson]

As stated by a member, re-open existing grounds which have the infrastructure in place. Maybe expand to handle extra flow.
Too much time and money to have it work well if even possible.
If people would act as they should then it might be a different story. Yet, there is simply to much disrespect for not only nature but the authorities.

[HalfBreed]

People need to start camping in their local parks, why should the homeless have all the fun?:bad_boys_20:

[JohninAB]

The co's travel through regularly, Stop at each spot and pick one licenced vehicle. Tell them they are responsible for clean up. Have them take pics upon departure, for their protection. If the co finds litter, at least he has something to follow up on. Once this process is established, there will be no 'It was already there".

This will not work as time between departure and the CO coming to inspect leaves the door open for the defense of someone did it after I left. Was not us.

Sent off a rather long email to my UCP MLA over this and a couple other issues. See how he responds.

[huntwat]

This will not work as time between departure and the CO coming to inspect leaves the door open for the defense of someone did it after I left. Was not us.

Sent off a rather long email to my UCP MLA over this and a couple other issues. See how he responds.

That’s why the camper would take pics upon departure.

[zabbo]

Don't think a $30 annual fee will change anything. Been camping in the Oldman /Dutch creek area for the last 8 summers. There are always issues and disagreements. Some people like to shoot, while others are terrified, some people like to quad while others are squawking the land and streams are being destroyed. There has always been way too much TP and feces along the streams in my opinion. Lots of "temporary" out houses that seem to have become permanent. Ya gotta go, ya gotta go, fine, but at least wander well into the weeds and cover your tracks when you are done.

Last year in particular was a complete "crap show"!. Saw lots of things that were really over the top! Pretty sure this year will be even worse! Really have to wonder about the entitlement attitude of people?

I'm thinking some kind of random camping permit on a per night basis. Could be sold on line like fishing a license. Would need to be displayed on the trailer or tent. All monies raised go directly to enforcement. There has been virtually zero in the past. Last year there actually were more CO,s and lo and behold even RCMP? Still nowhere near enough and seldom in the evening or later at night. Fireworks all over, fire bans totally ignored!? It really was the wild west! :argue2:

[zabbo]

The co's travel through regularly, Stop at each spot and pick one licenced vehicle. Tell them they are responsible for clean up. Have them take pics upon departure, for their protection. If the co finds litter, at least he has something to follow up on. Once this process is established, there will be no 'It was already there".

Judging by this comment I don't think you comprehend the scope of the problem. In the Dutch creek area there are 100's of thousands of acres of forest and people camping everywhere. It would take an army of CO"s to drive through regularly. Even at that some camp sites would be missed. You wouldn't believe some of the places I have seen trailers! I wouldn't even take my truck into some of them. Many sites have multiple groups crowded into them. How can you pick one vehicle and tell them they are responsible for all the rest?

JMHO :thinking-006:

[JB_AOL]

Guys, this annual permit would be teal easy to enforce, simply set up a "checkstop" on one road every Friday. The oanother road on Sat, another on Sunday. Sure it doesn't catch everyone, but keeping it random would force alot of people to buy the permit. Also, it's for camping not day use.

[liar]

Our co's are short handed now . Adding road blocks , site visits , probably isnt going to happen without reducing coverage somewhere else . Also , a lot of these activities happen on the weekends , not evenly spread out over 7 days making coverage even more challenging .

[nimrod]

I can see it now, at landslide lake, my tent has the permit posted, when nobody from the co's will come and look, this is also a back country campsite, just no vehicle access

[Stinky Buffalo]

In theory it sounds like a good idea - and if it had any hope of addressing the backcountry abusers, then I'd support it.

I think of it this way, though: If they didn't have the resources to police the abusers up until now, how will they find the resources to enforce the fees in an equitable manner?

There will be many that will ignore paying the fees and will chance the fine.

A roadside checkstop has limited effectiveness as well - some will just say, "I'm just going in for the day, sir...", especially if they don't have a camping unit.

I'll have to file this under "cash grab".

[JohninAB]

They are supposedly hiring 20 new CO’s and extra summer staff I believe.

[colroggal]

Better idea would be to make everyone who wishes to use the outdoors apply for a WIN card and pay for the same annual wildlife certificate every hunter has to buy.

Colin

[Stinky Buffalo]

They are supposedly hiring 20 new CO’s and extra summer staff I believe.

Well, that's good news! On one hand, it's too bad that it has come to this due to the abusers, but it's good to see that they are putting more resources into it.

[ram crazy]

Don't think a $30 annual fee will change anything. Been camping in the Oldman /Dutch creek area for the last 8 summers. There are always issues and disagreements. Some people like to shoot, while others are terrified, some people like to quad while others are squawking the land and streams are being destroyed. There has always been way too much TP and feces along the streams in my opinion. Lots of "temporary" out houses that seem to have become permanent. Ya gotta go, ya gotta go, fine, but at least wander well into the weeds and cover your tracks when you are done.

Last year in particular was a complete "crap show"!. Saw lots of things that were really over the top! Pretty sure this year will be even worse! Really have to wonder about the entitlement attitude of people?

I'm thinking some kind of random camping permit on a per night basis. Could be sold on line like fishing a license. Would need to be displayed on the trailer or tent. All monies raised go directly to enforcement. There has been virtually zero in the past. Last year there actually were more CO,s and lo and behold even RCMP? Still nowhere near enough and seldom in the evening or later at night. Fireworks all over, fire bans totally ignored!? It really was the wild west! :argue2:


All you have to do is look where 90% of the people are from in the Oldman/Dutch Creek area. If the CO's would go out and actually fine the guilt ones they would make way more money than they would with a $30 dollar fee. That is if there is as big as problem as everyone let's on! I just can't get over how people bitch and complain about taxes, but yet are ok with paying user fees for everything. You do realize that all money goes into general revenue.

[treeroot]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.

[zabbo]

All you have to do is look where 90% of the people are from in the Oldman/Dutch Creek area. If the CO's would go out and actually fine the guilt ones they would make way more money than they would with a $30 dollar fee. That is if there is as big as problem as everyone let's on! I just can't get over how people bitch and complain about taxes, but yet are ok with paying user fees for everything. You do realize that all money goes into general revenue.

Where do you think the 90% comes from? I have no issue with dishing out fines and I hope they make them big! Problem is, the CO's or police pretty much have to be there and witness infractions. Otherwise, people just say, it wasn't me. Prove it was. Also, people will plead not guilty and the courts are so backed up, by the time it gets there the case will be thrown out. You are correct when you say $30 probably won't do it. That's why I suggest a nightly fee. Make it $5. These funds go directly to enforcement! Big fines where possible as well.

I really don't know what the answer is, but after last year especially, and even before, something needs to change. We nee to start someplace. :thinking-006:

[Buckhead]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.

This ^^^^.

I am not paying a $30 fee to use crown land that I already own.

What next. A fee to breathe mountain air?

Maybe they can start actually fining the abusers.

[zabbo]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.

I suspect that you are one of those that use crown land respectfully? You also have an issue paying for that use. There are lots of people that are very respectful and that's great. There are also lots that are extremely disrespectful. Last year saw a huge increase of those people. I actually stay in a campground and pay for that. My choice. I have never agreed with a free for all random camping crap show. As stated, these monies go directly to enforcement. I know, governments change the rules all the time. I'm just saying, something needs to change drastically. We have to start somewhere. :)

[Buckhead]

Maybe start enforcing the laws that already exist.
That's a good place to start.
It's highly unlike that the abusers are going to pay the $30 in any event.
If they start handing out fines then that will generate the revenue for additional enforcement. No need for any extra permits.

[urban rednek]

:lol::lol::lol: It's only $30. Not a big deal. :sHa_sarcasticlol:
"Heck, that's less than a tank of fuel to get out there. It's less than the cost of a small double double every week for a year. :rolleye2:
If it saves one life..."

Stop falling for their false narrative and misdirection, that's how we got where we are today. Increase the fines and enforce the existing laws before you create a new license (tax) that will increase every year ad infinitum. Rinse and repeat.

[tri777]

:lol::lol::lol: It's only $30. Not a big deal. :sHa_sarcasticlol:
"Heck, that's less than a tank of fuel to get out there. It's less than the cost of a small double double
every week for a year. :rolleye2: If it saves one life..."

Stop falling for their false narrative and misdirection, that's how we got where we are today. Increase the
fines and enforce the existing laws before you create a new license (tax) that will increase every year ad
infinitum. Rinse and repeat.

I am 100% with this ^^
The new $30 tax is just a sneaky snake way to make all the 'good/law abiders' pay for the sins of the pigs.

[Outbound]

Just another tax that won't solve anything. Start with making the fines for abusing the wilderness staggeringly harsh. $2000 for littering, $5000 for cutting down live trees, $10,000 for driving through fish bearing waters etc.

[huntwat]

Judging by this comment I don't think you comprehend the scope of the problem. In the Dutch creek area there are 100's of thousands of acres of forest and people camping everywhere. It would take an army of CO"s to drive through regularly. Even at that some camp sites would be missed. You wouldn't believe some of the places I have seen trailers! I wouldn't even take my truck into some of them. Many sites have multiple groups crowded into them. How can you pick one vehicle and tell them they are responsible for all the rest?

JMHO :thinking-006:

I’ve camped at Dutch, old man, racehorse, daisy, white and deep. But only started recently (1975ish) I think I might know a little about the area and the problem. Of course you’re not going to catch everyone. But, if you catch a large number, word gets out.
Multiple groups? Then ask who is in each group. C.O.‘s are paid to do a job. Maybe start doing it.

[Athabasca1]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.

I agree with treeroot, just another money grab.

[birdman86]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.

Yup, this. Kenney needs to come up with taxes wherever he can while leaving personal/corporate rates untouched, all so he can pay his "war room" $30MM to protest a childrens cartoon about Bigfoot.

[liar]

This ^^^^.

I am not paying a $30 fee to use crown land that I already own.

What next. A fee to breathe mountain air?

Maybe they can start actually fining the abusers.

Thats crazy talk . What next? Take the guns away from the criminals !!!

[zabbo]

I’ve camped at Dutch, old man, racehorse, daisy, white and deep. But only started recently (1975ish) I think I might know a little about the area and the problem. Of course you’re not going to catch everyone. But, if you catch a large number, word gets out.
Multiple groups? Then ask who is in each group. C.O.‘s are paid to do a job. Maybe start doing it.

I can see this is going south real fast. Quite honestly I'm not looking for a scrap. Just some way to put a cap on the craziness that has slowly been getting worse each year. Last year was a complete gong show! With all the new trailers purchased last year I expect this year will be the same and probably worse. I simply don't care how it happens, an annual fee, daily fee or just flat out through taxes. One way or the other it is going to cost money. If you have spent as much time as you say in the area I can't believe that you honestly believe CO's are regularly going to drive through every campsite. It would take an army and even then places would be missed. The next issue is, to charge a person the officer pretty much has to witness the offence. Those odds are pretty long at the very best. So too are the odds of charging a large number. Then imagine mom and dad take the kids for a weekend camp out and end up with a $1k fine or more. I can see the headlines and news flashes already. I didn't know, they're picking on me. Last summer 3 or 4 weeks into the fire ban a group in the campground has a real nice blazing going one evening. A couple people told them there was a fire ban. Response, well it's just a little fire. We didn't see the 4X8 foot fire ban signs all the way inbound or the 2 or 3 signs in the campground. REALY?? As far as I know the fine in that case is $600. Should be 10k.

Once again, not looking for scrap. Just trying to stop the insanity! Have a great day! :)

[treeroot]

I suspect that you are one of those that use crown land respectfully? You also have an issue paying for that use. There are lots of people that are very respectful and that's great. There are also lots that are extremely disrespectful. Last year saw a huge increase of those people. I actually stay in a campground and pay for that. My choice. I have never agreed with a free for all random camping crap show. As stated, these monies go directly to enforcement. I know, governments change the rules all the time. I'm just saying, something needs to change drastically. We have to start somewhere. :)

Not sure why you made that statement, you'd think that would be pretty obvious.. So I'm guessing it's more about the sentence following that one.. So I'll assume this was your point and address it.

Yes I have an issue with the 30$. My issue is that unless the 30$ is given directly to those who can address the issues on CL, its just a money grab.
It's going to the general pot of provincial fees and taxes. NOTHING has been stated about increasing officers to address the issue, increasing money towards convicting offenders etc. So if they are taking 30$ for me because of a known problem, but not giving the 30$ to those who can address the known problem than there is no point in charging 30$.

I'm not sure where your getting that this money is going directly to enforcment unless I missed that part. But in the articles I've read about the 30$ fee, nothing was said about the money going DIRECTLY to enforcment.

If I saw how my crownland camping fee was being spent and it clearly showed they would hire X number of officers for ever X number of fee's collecting and it was a 1 for 1 deal, I'd happily pay 60$

[ghostguy6]

My question is, Will a certain ethnic group be except? Or Will this be for every single person that camps on crown land?

[treeroot]

I'll be more specific and pull right out of the article posted

"You get $30 a year to random camp as many nights you want in the West Country with all of the revenue going back toward conservation in those areas," Nixon told reporters at the Alberta legislature. "It will roll out this year as promised."

The ministry is still determining whether the annual fee will apply to public lands across the province or just in areas with the heaviest use. The province will likely exempt Indigenous Albertans from having to get a permit. "


1) "all revenue going back towards conservation in those areas".

This is complete BS.. ALL fees ALWAYS go into the general revuene account with the province. This is just how the system is set up.. Then once in that account, the province decides how to spend it. If 1million fees are collect, 1million goes into the general revenue account.. Then the province decides what happens then.. This is such a crap system and its not right to say these fees will go to enforement in the area because it simply never does. When your hunting and fishing fees went up, did they not say this would go towards more enforcment? pure BS as the province CUT funding for enforcment after the fees increased..

bottom line is, once its in the general revuence account, the province has zero obligations to spend it on anything except what they want.

2) I am part first nations, but I have an issue with first nations being excused from this fee. Big can of worms here, but I'm tired of Canadian citizens being treated differently. This just plain has to stop... There is absolutely no logical reason to justify 1 human being born in Canada not paying this "user fee" and not another.

[spurly]

My question is, Will a certain ethnic group be except? Or Will this be for every single person that camps on crown land?

It looks as though they will. According to the link on the first page.

[ram crazy]

I can see this is going south real fast. Quite honestly I'm not looking for a scrap. Just some way to put a cap on the craziness that has slowly been getting worse each year. Last year was a complete gong show! With all the new trailers purchased last year I expect this year will be the same and probably worse. I simply don't care how it happens, an annual fee, daily fee or just flat out through taxes. One way or the other it is going to cost money. If you have spent as much time as you say in the area I can't believe that you honestly believe CO's are regularly going to drive through every campsite. It would take an army and even then places would be missed. The next issue is, to charge a person the officer pretty much has to witness the offence. Those odds are pretty long at the very best. So too are the odds of charging a large number. Then imagine mom and dad take the kids for a weekend camp out and end up with a $1k fine or more. I can see the headlines and news flashes already. I didn't know, they're picking on me. Last summer 3 or 4 weeks into the fire ban a group in the campground has a real nice blazing going one evening. A couple people told them there was a fire ban. Response, well it's just a little fire. We didn't see the 4X8 foot fire ban signs all the way inbound or the 2 or 3 signs in the campground. REALY?? As far as I know the fine in that case is $600. Should be 10k.

Once again, not looking for scrap. Just trying to stop the insanity! Have a great day! :)


You do realize that there is a ranger station in the Dutch Creek area. Did you ever think to go there and report it! Then again the CO's would actually have to do something.

[Map Maker]

No.

So there is public land that has nothing there just a old road that has been punched in over the years, and open area made by campers.

Nothing there or to maintain but we have to pay $30/ year for the government to conserve that area ?

The government should pony up the enforcement, send people out and start handing out fines. Make them clean up the site in hour or the fine is double.

Want to get out of the fine, pay 50% cash right there. Fines pay for enforcement.

The government is punishing the wrong people again.

I’m sick of paying for the losers!

Mr. Nixon, stop taking the easy way out and lay down the law.

[huntsfurfish]

Money grab.. Does everyone here understand that the 30$ fee goes into the provincial coffers as general revenue and its spent just the same as any other provincial fee?

This 30$ does NOT go directly to maintaining and policing crown land camping. Just more money in the governments pocket.

And the same *****s who abuse crown land will be the same *****s who don't pay the fee.

All this is will be is a money grab out of the pockets of the people who use crown land respectfully.


You know what, you may be right. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

They should just eliminate the random camping all together.

Build a few/bunch new campgrounds instead and charge a fee for camping.

.

[zabbo]

You know what, you may be right. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

They should just eliminate the random camping all together.

Build a few/bunch new campgrounds instead and charge a fee for camping.

.

This may actually be the best solution for ending the crap show!

[zabbo]

You do realize that there is a ranger station in the Dutch Creek area. Did you ever think to go there and report it! Then again the CO's would actually have to do something.

Yes, I know, drive through it a couple times a day usually. Thing is, these people are firefighters, not law enforcement. They do have contact with CO'S, but sometimes there are none available.:)

[zabbo]

No.

So there is public land that has nothing there just a old road that has been punched in over the years, and open area made by campers.

Nothing there or to maintain but we have to pay $30/ year for the government to conserve that area ?

The government should pony up the enforcement, send people out and start handing out fines. Make them clean up the site in hour or the fine is double.

Want to get out of the fine, pay 50% cash right there. Fines pay for enforcement.

The government is punishing the wrong people again.

I’m sick of paying for the losers!

Mr. Nixon, stop taking the easy way out and lay down the law.


As already stated, dishing out fines sounds great, but from a legal view point not that easy.

[spurly]

I am not a camper, but I think this needs a lot more thought, and planning before being implemented. Otherwise it just looks like another source of money for the govt. without an actual plan, on how to improve things out there.

[zabbo]

No.

So there is public land that has nothing there just a old road that has been punched in over the years, and open area made by campers.

Nothing there or to maintain but we have to pay $30/ year for the government to conserve that area ?

The government should pony up the enforcement, send people out and start handing out fines. Make them clean up the site in hour or the fine is double.

Want to get out of the fine, pay 50% cash right there. Fines pay for enforcement.

The government is punishing the wrong people again.

I’m sick of paying for the losers!



Mr. Nixon, stop taking the easy way out and lay down the law.

WOW! I pay $21a night for an outhouse, gravel pad, fire pit and picnic table. You are squawking about $30 per year?? Ok then.

I am the most anti tax, anti government person you will ever meet! Just looking to stop the madness!

[zabbo]

Not sure why you made that statement, you'd think that would be pretty obvious.. So I'm guessing it's more about the sentence following that one.. So I'll assume this was your point and address it.

Yes I have an issue with the 30$. My issue is that unless the 30$ is given directly to those who can address the issues on CL, its just a money grab.
It's going to the general pot of provincial fees and taxes. NOTHING has been stated about increasing officers to address the issue, increasing money towards convicting offenders etc. So if they are taking 30$ for me because of a known problem, but not giving the 30$ to those who can address the known problem than there is no point in charging 30$.

I'm not sure where your getting that this money is going directly to enforcment unless I missed that part. But in the articles I've read about the 30$ fee, nothing was said about the money going DIRECTLY to enforcment.

If I saw how my crownland camping fee was being spent and it clearly showed they would hire X number of officers for ever X number of fee's collecting and it was a 1 for 1 deal, I'd happily pay 60$

Glad to hear. As I have already stated in more than one post, I want the cash to go directly to enforcement! :)

[I’d rather be outdoors]

No.

So there is public land that has nothing there just a old road that has been punched in over the years, and open area made by campers.

Nothing there or to maintain but we have to pay $30/ year for the government to conserve that area ?

The government should pony up the enforcement, send people out and start handing out fines. Make them clean up the site in hour or the fine is double.

Want to get out of the fine, pay 50% cash right there. Fines pay for enforcement.

The government is punishing the wrong people again.

I’m sick of paying for the losers!

Mr. Nixon, stop taking the easy way out and lay down the law.

Agree

[zabbo]

WOW! I pay $21a night for an outhouse, gravel pad, fire pit and picnic table. You are squawking about $30 per year?? Ok then.

I am the most anti tax, anti government person you will ever meet! Just looking to stop the madness!

$30 a year, through taxes or whatever other method, we're all paying.

[ram crazy]

$30 a year, through taxes or whatever other method, we're all paying.

If the CO's went out and hand out some fines they would have a lot more money in the long run.

[TrollGRG]

They can hand out all the fines they want. All the ignorant fools will do is ignore them. Courts are overloaded right now. Prisoners are being released because there is no room for them. Do you really believe a fine will do anything other than increase costs for the system.

[MyAlberta]

This may actually be the best solution for ending the crap show!

I support this in several ways. I haven’t camped in Alberta for ten years, putoff by squatters. I come from a time where you camped in designated parks. Demand outstripped that capacity many years ago. Without increased enforcement, this fee may have the opposite effect for those that feel they are now owed. I look at it as a first step when self regulation fails. It could be useful to ‘contract’ the holder into terms of use, providing a clearer path to charge/convict. Bylaws if you will. I support a fee if it folds back to enforcement, but I doubt it will. I say this only from my experience dealing with food and health.
I the province can’t profitable run camp sites, contract it out.

[spurly]

Hope they have a better plan, than just collecting money.

[spazzy]

I pay on average 9 grand a year in provincial income tax . That ought to be enough .

[skidderman]

WOW! I pay $21a night for an outhouse, gravel pad, fire pit and picnic table. You are squawking about $30 per year?? Ok then.

I am the most anti tax, anti government person you will ever meet! Just looking to stop the madness!

It will not stop the madness. Does anyone actually think the worst offender's will pay? I highly doubt it.

[treeroot]

This may actually be the best solution for ending the crap show!

BS.... whats with the notion of punishing everyone because of a few?


put some hefty fines on crownland abuse, find a judge with some actual balls and set the standard for what is acceptable use of crownland and demonstrate what you can expect if you don't meet those standards..

[liar]

BS.... whats with the notion of punishing everyone because of a few?


put some hefty fines on crownland abuse, find a judge with some actual balls and set the standard for what is acceptable use of crownland and demonstrate what you can expect if you don't meet those standards..

x2

[pikergolf]

I support this in several ways. I haven’t camped in Alberta for ten years, putoff by squatters. I come from a time where you camped in designated parks. Demand outstripped that capacity many years ago. Without increased enforcement, this fee may have the opposite effect for those that feel they are now owed. I look at it as a first step when self regulation fails. It could be useful to ‘contract’ the holder into terms of use, providing a clearer path to charge/convict. Bylaws if you will. I support a fee if it folds back to enforcement, but I doubt it will. I say this only from my experience dealing with food and health.
I the province can’t profitable run camp sites, contract it out.

This. The mountains and foothills are beginning to look like the green spaces in cities where the homeless live. Why should spaces owned by all Albertans be desecrated by a few?

[liar]

This. The mountains and foothills are beginning to look like the green spaces in cities where the homeless live. Why should spaces owned by all Albertans be desecrated by a few?

Its not just the mountains and foothills . Seeing it more and more all around here .

[Deezel]

The only extra enforcement you'll see from this $30 is extra enforcement to fine those that didn't pay the $30, nothing more.

[JULIUS]

This is just down right stupid!!!
The only ones paying it will be the same group of people who now pay the hunting, registration etc fees for outdoor activity.

It makes no sense and will not stop anything.

SO WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

As your self what the possible long game could be.Yup $30.00 will not hurt most people but where will it lead. Look next door to BC where there are large tracks of land that you can not even step foot into or camp or hunt under any circumstance unless you are First Nation Metis or Inuit.

I served my country for 30 years and now I have to pay a fee to go and put up a tent for a night in the woods. Oh yea I can not even go into the wood in some places.

All under the idea it will help to stop littering or poaching of endangered caribou. Give me a break.
Make the people paid to enforce the laws do that and stop taking away my heritage as a way to punish someone else.
Yup I will drink poison so someone else will die mentality.
I am so tired of this crap.

[zabbo]

BS.... whats with the notion of punishing everyone because of a few?


put some hefty fines on crownland abuse, find a judge with some actual balls and set the standard for what is acceptable use of crownland and demonstrate what you can expect if you don't meet those standards..

Actually it's not just a few. It's a whole big bunch! And it seems to be growing rapidly. Last year, probably due to covid, it absolutely exploded! Any enforcement personnel that were out there were completely overwhelmed. As I have said a couple times already, to actually charge people with an offence the officer pretty much has to witness the infraction. The odds of that are way below zero!
The best suggestion I have heard so far, shut down random camping altogether. Build more designated campsites and charge a nightly fee. That makes it a user pay system and no one has to pay for all the losers and abusers. Easy to witness and charge people random camping if it isn't allowed!

Let the debate rage on! LOL! :argue2:

[thumper]

"SO WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS? "

Because law abiding, responsible people are concerned about the trashing of our outdoors, and introducing a new fee, will give law abiding, responsible people the illusion that 'something is being done about it'.

Irresponsible, lawbreaking people who ignore existing laws will ignore this one as well, and continue doing what they've always done - trash our outdoors.

Responsible people paying a new fee won't change that, curtailing the trashing of our outdoors requires too much fortitude from the government, which is unrelated to collecting a new revenue and building a whole new department tasked with collection and administration - but charging a new fee will make responsible people feel that something is being done about it.

Just like federal gun laws.:)

[skidderman]

It's another hidden tax, nothing less, nothing more. Just like the new storm water tax in Spruce Grove & Stony. They don't want to raise taxes because that causes them to get voted out. They now figured out hidden taxes is the way to go. A few complain, most don't. Get used to it. We will see a lot more of this type of tax. I don't believe for one minute that it's about the environment.

[Smoky buck]

"SO WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS? "

Because law abiding, responsible people are concerned about the trashing of our outdoors, and introducing a new fee, will give law abiding, responsible people the illusion that 'something is being done about it'.

Irresponsible, lawbreaking people who ignore existing laws will ignore this one as well, and continue doing what they've always done - trash our outdoors.

Responsible people paying a new fee won't change that, curtailing the trashing of our outdoors requires too much fortitude from the government, which is unrelated to collecting a new revenue and building a whole new department tasked with collection and administration - but charging a new fee will make responsible people feel that something is being done about it.

Just like federal gun laws.:)

This about sums it up in my opinion ^^^

[treeroot]

This may actually be the best solution for ending the crap show!

I finally understand your point of view and I agree with it. Thanks for such logical thinking and helping us to see the light.

Ban crown land camping because some people have no morals. Instead of trying to enforce laws and consequences on these people, the only real solution is to ban this practice across the country even though most of us get it right and don't need an officer to tell us how to do it respectfully.

Thank you.





Shoot.. you know we also have some *****s who abuse firearms.. I agree with your way of thinking, let just ban firearms for everyone.



Your such a smart guy.

[Cigarguy]

Yep, don't need or want more taxes. This will do nothing to stop the idiots, malicious or inconsiderate. We as a species is destructive and selfish. Additional taxation will not solve this.

[calgarychef]

It's another hidden tax, nothing less, nothing more. Just like the new storm water tax in Spruce Grove & Stony. They don't want to raise taxes because that causes them to get voted out. They now figured out hidden taxes is the way to go. A few complain, most don't. Get used to it. We will see a lot more of this type of tax. I don't believe for one minute that it's about the environment.

It’s not hidden at all, it’s 30 bucks. That’s not much, I’ve paid more to pitch a tent for one night. I never go random camping unless I backpack in. These random camping areas are all total garbage dumps now, it’s actually disturbing how people can make such a mess.

[tri777]

The landlord increased our rent because someone left a mess in their apartment that the DD didn't cover..
it was the best solution to ending the crap show..wait what.

[Map Maker]

As already stated, dishing out fines sounds great, but from a legal view point not that easy.

Drone surveillance.
Fly over areas before weekend, fly over in the morning. Hand out fines for littering and make them clean up.

Seems easy to me.

[hilt134]

Another thing to keep in mind is this isn’t the only fee they want to impose. Look at the end of the article, they would like to add day use fees for provincial parks and other areas. This is just a test of the waters to add tolls to use public land. It won’t just end at the parks either the crown land will be hit as well.

[270person]

Another thing to keep in mind is this isn’t the only fee they want to impose. Look at the end of the article, they would like to add day use fees for provincial parks and other areas. This is just a test of the waters to add tolls to use public land. It won’t just end at the parks either the crown land will be hit as well.


A lot of parks and campgrounds charge day use fees already. If you're inside their boundaries why shouldn't you pay to use the same beaches, picnic areas, and boat launch areas the temporary residents do? Is it because you don't put your trash in the same bins? Use the same washroom facilities? Fish the same fish?

Who provides the maintenance for what you DO use?

Unbelievable how privileged some come across here. Try doing the same things in the States and see how that goes for you.

[hilt134]

Drone surveillance.
Fly over areas before weekend, fly over in the morning. Hand out fines for littering and make them clean up.

Seems easy to me.

That strikes me as extremely expensive and a rather large over reach by conservation officers. I

Is it surprising we are seeing fees on what was one of the only recreational activities people could partake in for the last year.

[stubby99ca]

I don't really mind the $30/yr. What I don't like is people who think they "own" crown land, you own it as much as I do and what makes you think you can do whatever you with my land if there is any ownership. Just treat crown land as a benefit and don't think it is your right when you have done nothing to own it anymore than everyone else. I applaud the people who enjoy recreational/hunting etc activities and work to purchase some property for them to enjoy those activities on land that they actually own. I realize this may not be a popular opinion on here.

[hilt134]

A lot of parks and campgrounds charge day use fees already. If you're inside their boundaries why shouldn't you pay to use the same beaches, picnic areas, and boat launch areas the temporary residents do? Is it because you don't put your trash in the same bins? Use the same washroom facilities? Fish the same fish?

Who provides the maintenance for what you DO use?

Unbelievable how privileged some come across here. Try doing the same things in the States and see how that goes for you.

Well that’s the joy of being Canadian. Not having to try things in the states.

here’s the hitch. We already pay for conservation and conservation enforcement. We pay for the management of our public lands. Through license fees, win cards, and something called taxes. So far our government and our law enforcement officers have proved themselves unable to enforce the laws on random camping. Here’s what we don’t know. Why? So far I haven’t seen any reports from the CO’s stating lack of funds as to why they aren’t patrolling these areas. The government hasn’t released any study saying the budget is the problem. You may be perfectly fine giving the province any funds they ask for. Personally I’d like so concrete proof I’m not just funding a pathetic attack on a children’s Bigfoot movie.

[hayseed]

Well that’s the joy of being Canadian. Not having to try things in the states.

here’s the hitch. We already pay for conservation and conservation enforcement. We pay for the management of our public lands. Through license fees, win cards, and something called taxes. So far our government and our law enforcement officers have proved themselves unable to enforce the laws on random camping. Here’s what we don’t know. Why? So far I haven’t seen any reports from the CO’s stating lack of funds as to why they aren’t patrolling these areas. The government hasn’t released any study saying the budget is the problem. You may be perfectly fine giving the province any funds they ask for. Personally I’d like so concrete proof I’m not just funding a pathetic attack on a children’s Bigfoot movie.


Well said, and spot on!!!!!!!

[urban rednek]

There are so many opportunities for revenue enhancement in our province, we've barely scratched the surface with this lame $30 license.
I propose the cities revisit the annual license for out-of-owners that take advantage of city taxpayer funded amenities. They congest our streets, some drive in an unsafe manner, some leave garbage everywhere, some commit crimes while far from their homes.
Another great revenue idea is mandatory licensing for bikes and scooters using taxpayer funded pathways. They travel along weaving all willy-nilly through the pedestrian traffic. Some even ignore common sense safety measures and put others at risk.
What about an annual litter license for everyone over the age of 18? On top of that, we could make it mandatory for all restaurants that provide take-out orders to charge an additional litter levy on the food bill, because we all know that most of the takeout packaging will end up on the ground. Someone has to clean it up. That sound like good idea? :sHa_shakeshout:

Remember, we're all in this together. We all have to do our part. The only solution is digging deeper and giving more of your money to the government.

Enjoy the decline.