What does "budget" mean to you

[obsessed1]

I see these posts all the time...."looking for a budget scope"...."would like a budget coyote rifle" just to pick on a few recent post...Not at all trying to say finding budget friendly options is bad but what does budget friendly really mean? Instead of looking for "budget friendly" options why not ask for best value for xxx$. My idea of budget friendly is vastly different than someone else who might suggest a zeiss as being budget friendly..for some the cost of a zeiss is not really out if reach yet for the next guy it very well could be years or decades to safe that kind of coin. I think everyone woul agree that we all want the best bang for our bucks in all purchases but what constitutes a "budget" class item?

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[catnthehat]

I never once thought about "budget" wen putting a rifle together, it was all about what II wanted to get built, not what it cost me!:budo:
several times I had to wait until I had the cash needed.....
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

To me, budget means an eventual upgrade.

Good budget rifles mean something used.

I think someone here said that their dad told them they couldn’t afford cheap things. There is a lot of sense in that statement.

[obsessed1]

Good explanations

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[MK2750]

Budget to me, means the absolute least amount one can pay and still get a reliable product.

[tirebob]

I dislike when the word budget is used to describe and item, no matter whether it is a rifle or a tire. Budget is simply the amount of money one can spend and is not an adjective imho.

When someone approached me and asked for a "budget" item my question is always, "what is your budget?" and then work from there. Best advice one can have is to assess what your budget is, and then buy as best you can within your budget. Not just buying as cheap as possible.

[elkhunter11]

I dislike when the word budget is used to describe and item, no matter whether it is a rifle or a tire. Budget is simply the amount of money one can spend and is not an adjective imho.

When someone approached me and asked for a "budget" item my question is always, "what is your budget?" and then work from there. Best advice one can have is to assess what your budget is, and then buy as best you can within your budget. Not just buying as cheap as possible.

My feelings as well, but when many people use the term "budget" they actually mean "cheap".

[marky_mark]

I dislike when the word budget is used to describe and item, no matter whether it is a rifle or a tire. Budget is simply the amount of money one can spend and is not an adjective imho.

When someone approached me and asked for a "budget" item my question is always, "what is your budget?" and then work from there. Best advice one can have is to assess what your budget is, and then buy as best you can within your budget. Not just buying as cheap as possible.

This

And when i establish my budget, I search high and low to get the most for my money. Sometimes it takes a year to acquire something for the right price

[tirebob]

Budget to me, means the absolute least amount one can pay and still get a reliable product.I use the term "cost effective" for this... I get that budget is the word many people use, but I think it is the wrong word. My customers always get an earful when they come at me with "budget'! haha! I know it is such a minor detail but it is a line I will die on hahaha!

[obsessed1]

I use the term "cost effective" for this... I get that budget is the word many people use, but I think it is the wrong word. My customers always get an earful when they come at me with "budget'! haha! I know it is such a minor detail but it is a line I will die on hahaha!I agree with you TB. Figure out what you want to or can spend then look for the best value in that range...never come out of the gate looking for the best " budget" item IE....cheapest item I can get. If your budget is small it's still ok just look for the best in that range. But it's often not best to look for the cheapest option out of the gate. One thing I have noticed as of late is even cheap stuff is stupid expensive nowadays...

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[JD848]

Just walk into any any cat house and ask for the budget deal , you won't ask for it second time around.

Obsessed1 is a fine gentlemen, I was looking for something in the buy and sell and he helped me out greatly ,Thanks .

CHEERS
JD

[raised by wolves]

"Budget" usually precedes a cheapskate's attempt to acquire an H-S Precision, Cooper, Sako (etc) for the equivalent of a Ruger American, Howa, or Savage.

[MK2750]

I dislike when the word budget is used to describe and item, no matter whether it is a rifle or a tire. Budget is simply the amount of money one can spend and is not an adjective imho.

When someone approached me and asked for a "budget" item my question is always, "what is your budget?" and then work from there. Best advice one can have is to assess what your budget is, and then buy as best you can within your budget. Not just buying as cheap as possible.

What if you can't get there from here? What if a person is better off with nothing or what they already have.

Scopes are a good example. I prefer iron sights to anything that is not reliable and perhaps even dangerous. A budget scope is Leupold VX1 or perhaps a Bushnell Elite. It is not good advice to go below that unless you find something used.

I bought 4 new tires at CT one time on a very tight budget as I needed to take a friend to Ontario for a family emergency. Not one tire made it to Ontario with a very manageable load on a half ton. I would have been much better off with the old tires I took off.

Again, for me budget is the absolute least you can spend to get a reliable product. If you can't afford it, you need to adjust your budget.

[EZM]

When someone chooses to buy something cheap, only to be disappointed or to upgrade later, they are not saving themselves any money - that's a choice they make.

Buying something you need that you can afford is another thing - if you don't have the money you can't simply "choose" to buy something better sometimes.

It's two different things in my mind.

My dad used to say "I cannot afford to buy anything cheap".

He always bought the best quality he could - and if we didn't have money to buy it we saved up until we did.

I think of budget = cheap but I guess it could mean "price range" too. It just has poor cogitations.

It's like a co-worker who purchased the Savage Axis rifle/scope package - it's budget friendly, shoots just fine - but can he ever admire the smooth operation and craftsmanship of that rifle?, will his optics ever be described as crisp? will the rifle ever achieve repeatable precision?

Maybe that doesn't matter to some, and to others a great deal more.

[fishnguy]

Budget by definition is a certain amount of money allocated towards an expense or asset purchase. Everyone has their own. Like that thread with a scope for a 7 mm rifle: the budget there is $1,500. Doesn’t mean you have to spend it all, but you better not spend more because that may cause problems elsewhere. Someone suggested a Zeiss Victory scope. That’s how many governments operate, lol.

The way the term is used meaning various things, from “cheap” to “best bang for the buck”, is probably a marketing “trick” someone came up with at some point because they were looking for something to replace “cheap” with.

When someone is looking for something on a budget, they should always indicate what the budget is, or a maximum they are willing to spend for that something.

I bought 4 new tires at CT one time on a very tight budget as I needed to take a friend to Ontario for a family emergency. Not one tire made it to Ontario with a very manageable load on a half ton. I would have been much better off with the old tires I took off.
Those were probably Motomaster or whatever their brand is called, weren’t they? My dad ones bought a set of those a couple of decades ago. He was back at the store a couple of days later switching them to Michelin. Amazingly, they took them back for a full refund.

[tirebob]

What if you can't get there from here? What if a person is better off with nothing or what they already have.

Scopes are a good example. I prefer iron sights to anything that is not reliable and perhaps even dangerous. A budget scope is Leupold VX1 or perhaps a Bushnell Elite. It is not good advice to go below that unless you find something used.

I bought 4 new tires at CT one time on a very tight budget as I needed to take a friend to Ontario for a family emergency. Not one tire made it to Ontario with a very manageable load on a half ton. I would have been much better off with the old tires I took off.

Again, for me budget is the absolute least you can spend to get a reliable product. If you can't afford it, you need to adjust your budget.

It would still apply... Budget is just what you can afford to spend. It doesn't mean you have to spend it all, or any for that matter to be cost effective.

Just because someones budget may be say $500, that doesn't mean they need to spend $500 to get the most cost effective solution to their problem. Exactly as you say, maybe the most cost effective solution is to keep the $500 and use open sights...

[KegRiver]

Budget to me means I can work it into my budget without cutting something important.

If I want it to be cheap I say I want it cheap.

If I want something for free I say I want it for free.

My first wife could spend Donald Trump into the poor house so for a lot of years I had no choice but to buy for as little as possible or not buy at all.

I learned two things from that. One, I learned to fix most things.
I also learned that new or high priced does not always mean better.

Some times one has to work with what they can afford. Or with what they know.

I think that's the problem with defining other peoples words for them.
One never knows what the other person's story is.

I believe that most people would buy a Rolls Royce if they had the money.

Some of us wouldn't even if we could afford to. Not because we are cheap, but because we are practical. We don't need a status symbol to define us.

None of us would buy a beater on it's last leg if we could afford better.

To think otherwise is nonsense.

[DirtShooter]

I don't use the word budget. I just use the word cheap.

Cheap scope, cheap coyote rifle. No other way to put it. You get what you pay for.

[KegRiver]

It would still apply... Budget is just what you can afford to spend. It doesn't mean you have to spend it all, or any for that matter to be cost effective.

Just because someones budget may be say $500, that doesn't mean they need to spend $500 to get the most cost effective solution to their problem. Exactly as you say, maybe the most cost effective solution is to keep the $500 and use open sights...


I wonder how many shooters know that a peep sight is the most accurate sight ever built.

I have a couple of Weaver scopes from the 1970s and 80s that still hold their settings after all these years, and a carton full of newer scopes that failed within a few years. Some of them were close to a thousand dollars when I bought them new.

[KegRiver]

I don't use the word budget. I just use the word cheap.

Cheap scope, cheap coyote rifle. No other way to put it. You get what you pay for.

Yup, you get what you pay for, and some times what you pay for is perfume on a pig even though it looks like Farrah Fawcett.

[Twisted Canuck]

People have different budgets at different points in life. My first hunting rifle was a Remington 788 in .308, well used, with a very cheap scope on it. Like, really bad. I made do, and put meat in the freezer. I was young and had 5 young kids. In the 25 years since, I have put some nicer rifles and much better optics in the safe. I can afford it now, and they also put meat in the freezer. And now, for no other reason then because I want to, I'm spending a lot more on a custom build that I don't need, but I want. And it still fits my current budget. I believe in value shopping, and getting the best you can afford. I don't believe in spending beyond your means. I've bought lots of used things in my life, from vehicles and tools to tires and guns. Sometimes that is where you do best with a small budget. If money is no object, get the best you can find. You will enjoy the quality in all likelihood.

[sns2]

I wonder how many shooters know that a peep sight is the most accurate sight ever built.

I have a couple of Weaver scopes from the 1970s and 80s that still hold their settings after all these years, and a carton full of newer scopes that failed within a few years. Some of them were close to a thousand dollars when I bought them new.

I’d be curious what $1000 scope crapped out and you couldn’t get it fixed by the manufacturer.

[cowmanbob]

I’d be curious what $1000 scope crapped out and you couldn’t get it fixed by the manufacturer.

I’d also like to know.

[MK2750]

I bought a Z3 for around $1000 and it fogged up. Sent it in to the manufacturer and they sent it back with a full page of things that were done to the scope. First day out and the same story. Returned it to the retailer and put a Leupold on the rifle.

[obsessed1]

I wonder how many shooters know that a peep sight is the most accurate sight ever built.



I have a couple of Weaver scopes from the 1970s and 80s that still hold their settings after all these years, and a carton full of newer scopes that failed within a few years. Some of them were close to a thousand dollars when I bought them new.So I agree peeps are accurate, I really like peeps but....id wager at least 90% of shooters will shoot more accurately with a scope at any distance than with peeps in regards to group size...myself included in that. I doubt there's anyone who given a rifle equipped with peeps and scope would shoot smaller groups at any range using peeps over the scope...amazing groups can be shot using peeps....
But again put quality glass on the same gun and I'd bet groups shrink...this us based off my limited experience using both....as well as observing hundreds of other shooters using open sights/ peeps and scopes.

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[270person]

Budget means anything you look through or shoot 3x and cry like a baby for not buying better.

Best to do your crying at the point of purchase. You'll spend a lot more getting something good down the line.

Or Budget is anything your buddies snicker about.

[StiksnStrings]

To me budget has a couple of meanings. It boils down to what a person can or is willing to spend on said item. When a person asks " looking for a certain budget item" it implies they are looking for that item as inexpensive as possible. When they ask "looking for a certain item with a budget up to $xxxx it's something very different.

[KegRiver]

I’d also like to know.

The scope had the name Mauser on it.

The papers with the scope had no return address and said to take it back to the point of purchase.
The store said the warranty was void because they believed it had been abused.

As I recall the scope cost around 800 dollars which I figure would be about 1,000 in today's market.

I bought it to go on my first new rifle and it's the reason I have not bought an expensive scope since then.

I just don't know enough about scopes to know which is good and which is junk.

I think most gun owners are in that boat in the beginning.

The lucky few may have someone they trust that does know, to guide them but most of us have to take our chances. There is a lot of high priced junk in the world.

[saskbooknut]

Budget, Economy, Thrifty, Bargain -
Corolla rather than Lexus
Does the job, but doesn't break the bank account.
When I started hunting, a commercial sporting rifle started about $110, so we bought a Lee Enfield from Eaton's. The No. 1 Mk. III rifles were stacked like cordwood, and priced at $9.95.
A handsaw, rasp, sandpaper and linseed oil - and then you had a "Sporter" rifle. A box of 10 Churchill cartridges, soft point bullets in Military ammo, and you were ready to hunt deer.
You can spend too little and get something that is not reliable, but you don't always have to buy the most expensive model of anything, to get good service.

[pikergolf]

If you make 50k a year budget certainly has a different meaning than it does to a 150k income earner. Do your research and buy the best that you can afford. Some very good products out there at a good price if you search them out. In the end it is not the rifle or scope that does the killing, it is the bullet.

[brass410]

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"

[catnthehat]

I wonder how many shooters know that a peep sight is the most accurate sight ever built.

.
By "sight", do you mean iron sight, or are you stating that peeps are more accurate than scopes?
I do are for sure that a properly set up peep sight is the most accurate iron sight made, but they are not nearly as accurate as a scope.
In ISU and DCRA competition , you are allowed to use a single clarifying lens of 1.5X, either in the front or rear sight but not both, and even that makes a huge difference in seeing the target.
Cat

[270person]

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"



No truer words have been spoken.

[KegRiver]

By "sight", do you mean iron sight, or are you stating that peeps are more accurate than scopes?
I do are for sure that a properly set up peep sight is the most accurate iron sight made, but they are not nearly as accurate as a scope.
In ISU and DCRA competition , you are allowed to use a single clarifying lens of 1.5X, either in the front or rear sight but not both, and even that makes a huge difference in seeing the target.
Cat

My information came from a Gun Digest published many years ago.
I of course can neither confirm or disprove what it said.

As I recall the article was written by Jim Carmichael.

It claimed that peep sights are more accurate then other sight systems because they are not subject to parallax error as a scope is and not dependent on lining up two points in one's peripheral vision as iron sights are.

It further claimed that a person's eye will unerringly find the exact center of a round opening when looking through that opening.

But again, I have no expertise with which to judge the accuracy of those claims and I was unable to find that publication in my library.

I did find two online articles that seem to agree with at least some of what I read.

https://gunsmagazine.com/our-experts/precision-peeps/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2013/11/improve-your-vision-and-rifle-shooting-peep-sights/

[elkhunter11]

My information came from a Gun Digest published many years ago.
I of course can neither confirm or disprove what it said.

As I recall the article was written by Jim Carmichael.

It claimed that peep sights are more accurate then other sight systems because they are not subject to parallax error as a scope is and not dependent on lining up two points in one's peripheral vision as iron sights are.

It further claimed that a person's eye will unerringly find the exact center of a round opening when looking through that opening.

But again, I have no expertise with which to judge the accuracy of those claims and I was unable to find that publication in my library.

I did find two online articles that seem to agree with at least some of what I read.

https://gunsmagazine.com/our-experts/precision-peeps/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2013/11/improve-your-vision-and-rifle-shooting-peep-sights/

If there was even the slightest bit of truth to peep sights being more accurate than a good scope, all competitive precision rifle shooters would use peep sights over scopes. All records for benchrest would be set using peep sights, as would all 1000 yard records, but of course that isn't the case, as scopes dominate these disciplines, and the record books. To even imagine otherwise, is nothing short of fantasy, scopes dominate, because they allow for more precise shooting than peep sights do.

[catnthehat]

Further to peeps versus scopes, the Xring (V bull) for competitions are generally at least half the diameter for scoped sighted competitions than peep sights.
Now, when F class first came about, it took the scoped rifles a bit of time to catch up to the Palma match guys , but only because of the newer shooters I think.
Now, the Vbull for Fclass is 1/2 Moa, and for Palma match it is 1MOA.
That is telling.......
Cat

[obsessed1]

Any one who would believe this doesn't have a firm grasp on modern advancement in both sighting systems . It might have been true 50-70 years ago but certainly not true for modern systems. If this article was written withing the last 20 years the author needs to get some more experience before giving his opinions as fact.
That said Keg your correct that most hunters could ( with judicious practice) use peeps to great effect in about 90% of hunting situations and save $$ on glass....but you do often give up first and last light, as well as needing much more practice to be competent at hunting distances...

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[Groundhogger]

It's a figure of speech of course, and I see the question asked all the time. The wrong way to ask the question, people might be better off asking what's possible for a rifle $_____ or under, or, asking if it's possible to get a decent scope for $_____, etc.

I rarely chime in on threads like that for a host of reasons, but mostly because you can't get a sense of how passionate, or experienced the person is who's asking. Maybe with established/active forum members who post allot, but they're not typically the ones asking.

Generalizing of course. :)

Two people who make $50K a year might look at the same question in vastly different ways. One might decide a Savage Axis is all they can afford, buy it, and hunt with it forever. The next guy might decide a Tikka T3x has to be the gun they buy and they're prepared to save a considerable amount of time to make it happen. Neither guy is wrong, but working with the same "budget".

I'm over half a century old, and only recently (5-6 years?) felt my sensibilities start to shift where scopes are concerned. I was quicker with guns, realizing that good ones are worth saving for. Was always told the same about scopes, even heard lots of people say they pick the scope first or pay 2X the rifle value on one. I can get excited about a gun, almost never get excited about optics.

They you get older and like me, maybe start spending allot more time behind scopes...and then push long days into low light. You start to realize it would be better to have one good rifle and one good scope than 2-3 lesser ones.

[KegRiver]

Further to peeps versus scopes, the Xring (V bull) for competitions are generally at least half the diameter for scoped sighted competitions than peep sights.
Now, when F class first came about, it took the scoped rifles a bit of time to catch up to the Palma match guys , but only because of the newer shooters I think.
Now, the Vbull for Fclass is 1/2 Moa, and for Palma match it is 1MOA.
That is telling.......
Cat

As I said I can neither prove or disprove what I read.
One thing I am pretty sure of though, few hunters today realize how accurate a peep sight can be, and few know how to use them.

And it may well be that the information it contained is outdated.

But my point was not how accurate a peep is but rather how some of the older technology can be a better choice then many imagine.

I hear all this talk about regrets and crying. I've never regretted buying any rifle and I've bought more used then new.

All of the firearms I own are capable of doing what I need done.

On the other hand I know of at least three people who regretted putting out big bucks for the latest and greatest.

It seems to me that how well a rifle performs is more about preferences then price or specifications in most cases.

Sure for some only the latest and greatest will do, and if one has the budget why not?
But for low income folks and beginners a low cost firearm may be as good a choice as a match grade custom build.

Let's be honest here, a .25 MOA rifle will not turn a 2 MOA hunter into a marksman.

I think we do a great dis-service to the hunting community when we insist that only the best will do.

Many beginners and low income hunters simply can't afford a custom built tack driver nor do they need one.

[catnthehat]

That article is the reason I throw Jim Carmichel in the same category as Sam Fadala and Zumbo ,comments they make that are way to generalized and not at all unbiased or accurate.
Cat

[obsessed1]

As I said I can neither prove or disprove what I read.

One thing I am pretty sure of though, few hunters today realize how accurate a peep sight can be, and few know how to use them.



And it may well be that the information it contained is outdated.



But my point was not how accurate a peep is but rather how some of the older technology can be a better choice then many imagine.



I hear all this talk about regrets and crying. I've never regretted buying any rifle and I've bought more used then new.



All of the firearms I own are capable of doing what I need done.



On the other hand I know of at least three people who regretted putting out big bucks for the latest and greatest.



It seems to me that how well a rifle performs is more about preferences then price or specifications in most cases.



Sure for some only the latest and greatest will do, and if one has the budget why not?

But for low income folks and beginners a low cost firearm may be as good a choice as a match grade custom build.



Let's be honest here, a .25 MOA rifle will not turn a 2 MOA hunter into a marksman.



I think we do a great dis-service to the hunting community when we insist that only the best will do.



Many beginners and low income hunters simply can't afford a custom built tack driver nor do they need one.I do agree with you on these points. Our society is built on different ideals than past generations. For our grandfathers little thought was put into style, fit and finish, and if it gives you the fizz just by holding it. An axe was a tool a rifle was a tool. Now just as with axes or knives quality steel, proper heat treat, and in the case of an axe the hang of the haft makes the difference between 3cuts vs 7 obviously you get more done with less energy only making three... but there does come results of diminishing returns. Many guys on here use equipment to its fullets and rely on it to perform as it was designed. Just because our grandfathers used front stuffers and Kentucky windage doesn't mean we need to as well....but not everyone NEEDS the best glass or prettiest/ smoothest rifle to get the job done. But these days more often than not we are not ok with just basic..our cars have heated seats, mirrors and DVD players...today everything is about the experience not just the drive.. in my mind "budget" is about the drive. Not the experience it's about the base model without air conditioning and heated seats....trouble is most people want all the bells and whistles for a cheaper price.. this results in junk. In my mind there truly arnt many real " budget" items anymore. Because we cant do without the bells and whistles. And we want the experience. Truth is for a budget hunting scope a older gloss 4x bushnell or B&L are about as good as it gets. Most can be bought for less than 80$ will hold zero and are clear enough for any hunting situation you'll be legally shooting in and are good enough for accurate hits out to 400yds....but they sure don't give you the fizz or give the sense of experience we are all after....well most of us anyways

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[Pathfinder76]

As I said I can neither prove or disprove what I read.
One thing I am pretty sure of though, few hunters today realize how accurate a peep sight can be, and few know how to use them.

And it may well be that the information it contained is outdated.

But my point was not how accurate a peep is but rather how some of the older technology can be a better choice then many imagine.

I hear all this talk about regrets and crying. I've never regretted buying any rifle and I've bought more used then new.

All of the firearms I own are capable of doing what I need done.

On the other hand I know of at least three people who regretted putting out big bucks for the latest and greatest.

It seems to me that how well a rifle performs is more about preferences then price or specifications in most cases.

Sure for some only the latest and greatest will do, and if one has the budget why not?
But for low income folks and beginners a low cost firearm may be as good a choice as a match grade custom build.

Let's be honest here, a .25 MOA rifle will not turn a 2 MOA hunter into a marksman.

I think we do a great dis-service to the hunting community when we insist that only the best will do.

Many beginners and low income hunters simply can't afford a custom built tack driver nor do they need one.

No one has said you need the best. No one. And what exactly is best anyway? But, a rifle needs to function as a rifle should. Not all of them do. Even when the guy using it thinks it does. The notion that accuracy defines what a good hunting rifle is is also borderline insanity. I don’t get it and I probably never will. But as a late friend of mine used to say, “accurate junk is still junk”.

The gamut on used guns is considerable. A fellow that has 10 used Rugers, Remchesters, or whatever could tell you all day long that he can’t afford a $10,000 custom rifle. But he is up at night. He just doesn’t want to. Buying used does not mean you are being thrifty either. If I buy used am I on a tight budget? Maybe? But I might just be buying a world class rifle. And maybe it will shoot under an inch. But it might not. But I do know that it will work 100% of the time. Some might consider that priceless.

http://www.hallowellco.com/david_miller_300Wby%20LH.htm

http://www.hallowellco.com/jerry_fisher____Bob%20Swartley%20%20%20%207mm.html

[Pathfinder76]

Jim Charmichel is no slouch in the accuracy department. He has even recently held world record status inside benchrest disciplines.

[catnthehat]

As I said I can neither prove or disprove what I read.
One thing I am pretty sure of though, few hunters today realize how accurate a peep sight can be, and few know how to use them.

And it may well be that the information it contained is outdated.

But my point was not how accurate a peep is but rather how some of the older technology can be a better choice then many imagine.

I hear all this talk about regrets and crying. I've never regretted buying any rifle and I've bought more used then new.

All of the firearms I own are capable of doing what I need done.

On the other hand I know of at least three people who regretted putting out big bucks for the latest and greatest.

It seems to me that how well a rifle performs is more about preferences then price or specifications in most cases.

Sure for some only the latest and greatest will do, and if one has the budget why not?
But for low income folks and beginners a low cost firearm may be as good a choice as a match grade custom build.

Let's be honest here, a .25 MOA rifle will not turn a 2 MOA hunter into a marksman.

I think we do a great dis-service to the hunting community when we insist that only the best will do.

Many beginners and low income hunters simply can't afford a custom built tack driver nor do they need one.

I have always insisted that practice makes perfect , and to get to where a hunter needs to be proficient, they need to get away from shooting from the bench.
I also never worry about sub MOA rifles for hunting , my personal hunting rifle will not hold 1 MOA on a continual basis , but it does not need to.
I always tell new guys to get what they can afford and what they can shoot well.
If they want to sell the rifle later on, they can.
Whether or not they are going to lose money depends on a lot of things .
Cat

[catnthehat]

Jim Charmichel is no slouch in the accuracy department. He has even recently held world record status inside benchrest disciplines.

He has also been a silhouette shooter of some note as well, which leaves me wondering why he would make the statement he did about irons- unless I missed something .
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

He has also been a silhouette shooter of some note as well, which leaves me wondering why he would make the statement he did about irons- unless I missed something .
Cat

That statement is based on someone’s memory. :-)

[Bushleague]

While I've owned some nicer stuff in the past, At this point I dont think I own a rifle that cost over $500 anymore, other than my wife's. Every couple years or so I decide to get something nice, shop around and then decide against it. The reason I dont own anything more costly, is I'd have to spend a fortune to end up only mildly better off.

To find anything that works as well for me as my Husqvaran carbines, of similar quality, would cost at least a couple grand and likely perform about the same. Of all the rifles I've shot with irons, Lee Enfields work at least as well as anything else I've tried.

So with my current "Nice" rifles having cost around $500, I guess budget would be either the Lee Enfield I bought for $120 a couple years back, or the other two that I got for free.

[KegRiver]

That statement is based on someone’s memory. :-)
A valid point.

I am not at all sure which writer it was. It's been a while and it is not a subject I am particularly interested in so I may be wrong about who wrote it.

The only reason I remember it is because up till then I had hated peep sights.
I could not make them work for me.

It was that article that taught me how to use them, and changed my opinion of how accurate they were.

But again my point was that some of the old technology was better then many today seem to think it was.

Used or lower priced does not necessarily mean unreliable or inaccurate.

A budget rifle may be junk in one person's opinion and the best choice for another.

[fishnguy]

This is how I look at it.

Someone makes a thread and says they are thinking to buy a vehicle. Their budget is $25,000. The vehicle will be used to drive up to 50 km daily, most of the time probably significantly less.

Someone replies and says you should get a used Honda Civic because they are reliable, great on gas, etc; and he can find one for $15,000 or less, so a good chunk of money will stay in the OP’s bank account to spend on gas, insurance, maintenance, gift for the wife, put all on 7 red in the casino and see how he makes out, and so on.

Someone else says you should get a used F150 because there is a convenience of having a truck that you can move things around if need be, etc.

Someone else says you should buy a new Chevy Aveo. A few others suggest that it probably isn’t a good idea because you are very likely get no more than 5-6 years out of it and then have to send it to a scrap yard, literally, and have all kinds of problems with it during the 5-6 years you will get to drive it. Also, if you decide you had enough and want to sell it a couple of years down the line, you will have to pay someone to take it off your hands (not really, but you will loose a good chunk of cash selling it).

Someone else replies and says the guy should buy a BMW 750Li because that is what he has and it is really awesome.

Another guy suggests a used Toyota Corolla because of the same reasons someone suggested Civic earlier but he thinks Toyota is somewhat better.

Then one guy says that people are soft nowadays and back in the day he used to ride a bicycle 20 km one way a few times a week to see his future wife in a neighbouring town. Then he bought (insert a name) that had no AC or even a heater and that was all he ever needed and he thinks people really can do with less.

Someone suggest a used 4Runner because it’s a solid vehicle to have year round and one can take it off road when hunting or when he feels “adventurous”.

One guy asks what the OP currently drives. The OP says an older Civic. The guy asks if he has any problems with it. The OP says none, but would like to upgrade to something better. The guy says that he might already have what he needs and would probably be better off keeping the money.

This is how I see many of these threads go because scope/rifle choice is no different than that. Some suggestions are helpful, others not so much.

[M.C. Gusto]

Budget is just a word and means nothing as far as performance goes. If i look in my safe and pull out a $1000 Tikka and compare it to a $2000 xbolt for example, the Tikka (for me) is a better rifle all around.
New tooling has made accuracy unbelievable with some new rifles. My Howa Weatherby out shoots a USA Weatherby and its half the price. Some people think it might be a budget rifle, i tend to think research should be first and foremost. Not whats your top dollar to spend.

[Jerry D]

Peep sights in my opinion are the most user friendly.

Check out the mojo sights. It’s 2 peeps with the target in the center.

Now I’d take a 1-4 power or 1-6 or anyscope like that over any iron sights for accuracy.

I actually have 2 cz 452’s. A luz with the iron sights and an American with a 2-7


For me a budget item is when I know I’m making a compromise.

For others it’s about finding value and the best bag for your dollar which again comes down to what everyone values as important.

[elkhunter11]

Budget is just a word and means nothing as far as performance goes. If i look in my safe and pull out a $1000 Tikka and compare it to a $2000 xbolt for example, the Tikka (for me) is a better rifle all around.
New tooling has made accuracy unbelievable with some new rifles. My Howa Weatherby out shoots a USA Weatherby and its half the price. Some people think it might be a budget rifle, i tend to think research should be first and foremost. Not whats your top dollar to spend.

Browning and Weatherby are two examples of extra cost not buying more quality, more like the extra cost brings a fancier looking firearm, but the same quality.

[Jerry D]

Budget is just a word and means nothing as far as performance goes. If i look in my safe and pull out a $1000 Tikka and compare it to a $2000 xbolt for example, the Tikka (for me) is a better rifle all around.
New tooling has made accuracy unbelievable with some new rifles. My Howa Weatherby out shoots a USA Weatherby and its half the price. Some people think it might be a budget rifle, i tend to think research should be first and foremost. Not whats your top dollar to spend.

Tikka to me are a budget quality rifle because all the short actions are built on long actions. If they made a real short action I would be a fan. That would eat into sako market share.

Sako is a 3 lug 60 degree.
Somehow tikka managed a 2lug 70 degree which I do quite like.

I think some other manufacturers should copy the concept and do a 2 lug in the 80 degree range for a little more clearance

[barsik]

Budget is just a word and means nothing as far as performance goes. If i look in my safe and pull out a $1000 Tikka and compare it to a $2000 xbolt for example, the Tikka (for me) is a better rifle all around.
New tooling has made accuracy unbelievable with some new rifles. My Howa Weatherby out shoots a USA Weatherby and its half the price. Some people think it might be a budget rifle, i tend to think research should be first and foremost. Not whats your top dollar to spend.

exactly. I look for best value consumer goods all the time. could that be considered cheap? not at all, if the product can do 90% or better of what an expensive item does for 50% of the price I can purchase other needful items with the money I save or keep some money in my pocket.

[32-40win]

My budget has changed over the years, now its back to where I started from. But, over the years I built up what I could afford to a decent level, bit by bit, sometimes was in the right place at the right time too, and went and got the items I could afford at the time. Times when I've been so cheap I squeaked, others when I could have, but, didn't. There have also been a couple of times when I said to heck with the price, that is what I want, time to do this is now, while I can still pay it off. It's all paid for now, money is gone, and no regrets over it, I've enjoyed acquiring it, using it, and most of it has appreciated, even though, I've had my money's worth of use or fun with it, something which is tough to assign a value to.

[KegRiver]

For me knowing what was worth the money was as big a problem as finding enough money to purchase what I needed.

I think many of us take for granted the there is good advice to be had if one looks for it. But that is only true for those who know what good advice looks like.

Take this forum, there are a lot of knowable shooters here, but for someone who doesn't know any of us, that's not much help.

One learns pretty quick that the internet is home to a lot of Mall Ninjas. Some talk big about how they can put a hurting on people and others talk big about how much they know about guns.
The more experienced among us can spot those clowns easy enough but for a newbe it's not at all easy.

Generally the mall ninjas talk the longest and loudest.

Well I must go, the next few days will be busy days for me.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[sailor]

I see these posts all the time...."looking for a budget scope"...."would like a budget coyote rifle" just to pick on a few recent post...Not at all trying to say finding budget friendly options is bad but what does budget friendly really mean? Instead of looking for "budget friendly" options why not ask for best value for xxx$. My idea of budget friendly is vastly different than someone else who might suggest a zeiss as being budget friendly..for some the cost of a zeiss is not really out if reach yet for the next guy it very well could be years or decades to safe that kind of coin. I think everyone woul agree that we all want the best bang for our bucks in all purchases but what constitutes a "budget" class item?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Here are 2 lenses - both are up to 600mm .
Guess which is budget?

[waldedw]

The meaning of " Budget " is like the meaning of " Fixed Income " some peoples income is fixed a lot higher than others, just like some peoples budget is a lot higher than others.

For me it's more like OK I want something, is it practical, do I really need it, will I really use it, if the answer is yes then I get it but sometimes the answer is NO but I just want it so I get it anyway.

When it comes to guns you really don't loose much if anything if you look after them properly, if you decide in a couple years that you don't want / need it anymore you can usually recoup the majority of your investment, if you loose a bit it's like a user fee or rental no big deal.

[58thecat]

Well if I had a dollar, paid all my bills, put some away for a rainy day and still had two nickels I would consider anything that I could buy then fits into my budget.

Some rack a card or two up for toys but that isn’t a budget that’s just reckless...but ya got one hell of a scope:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[OL_JR]

When someone is asking for a budget item in general I assume something on the lower end of a product line, or on the lower end of what you can spend for an item. Example might be something like an Axis, or maybe a Rifleman scope from Leupold. Just a couple examples don't think it needs to be to complicated.

Right or wrong I'm not old enough yet to forget what it's like to either buy cheaper stuff or stay out of the field and I never liked the latter.

[Mb-MBR]

When I was guiding, I had the opportunity to look at and in some cases shoot some very high end expensive rifles, ones that I don't think I would buy even if I could afford. Even if a gun can put 3 shots through the same hole at 100, 99.9 percent of us shooters would fail.

I've guided guys that missed deer and moose at 100 yards, swear their 15,000 dollar rigs must have been bumped in transit, take them to the target bench and have them sight in, some had a hard time getting a 6" group but still good enough to kill an animal. I asked if I could try and in most instances the rigs were MOA or better. One camp I worked for established, if you draw blood you're done rule.

Over the years with the development of better ammo, I found even lower end guns turned into good shooters. Over the years I've purchased some guns on the cheap that wouldn't shoot for owners. A good bedding job and working up loads usually fixed and the odd one needed a crown job.

As has been stated, a poor man cant afford to buy junk but I would take my chances on a cheap gun and invest in good optics. I think most guns have the potential to shoot decent. Plus, once you try good optics, its hard to go back.

I suspect when people used the word "budget", they're not looking to spend a lot of money. I've seen plenty of rich folks beat every nickel out of a deal and poor guys anti up to get a brand make/model. I think its a character thing.......

Sorry for long post.......lol