Is your marksmanship better then your rifles ability

[Off in the Bushes]

So, if you have been following the last few posts from me on this forum you’ll have noticed that I’ve have been digging around for a .222 that is a good shooter. Accompanied by a brand that deliveries quality/ accuracy without a lot of diminished returns on the purchase. I prefer function over beauty so with function being the driving factor. How many of you know that your level/ skill as marksmanship excesses that of the rifle. How did you come to determine that.

[catnthehat]

Every now and then I run into a rifle that should be able to shoot better but does not, even after I try everything from accurizing it to load development.
My first Ruger #1 was like that until it was re- barreled , and coincidentally so was the last one!
Not sure about the first one, I think it was just a bad barrel but the last one was truly a bad barrel, it would not shoot three into 26" at 200 Meters.
After FullCurlEarl worked his magic with a new Shilen v
Barrel it will go under 1/2MOA AT 500, and accounted for a cow elk at over 750 yards this year with one shot.
Edit note: the elk was not shot by me but the new owner of thd rifle .
Cat

[Jerry D]

You have to be able to hold more steady than the rifle is accurate.

Typically need a good steady position to realize this and need the ability to call your shots to help eliminate variables and call your fliers.


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[Ackleyman]

Run a bore scope...... if barrel is shot out your peeing in the wind

[catnthehat]

Run a bore scope...... if barrel is shot out your peeing in the wind
A borescope will tell you the condition of the barrel but not necessarily how it will shoot.
Even with several inches of bore right gonzo I have still seen some rifles shoot MOA or better , I have one in my vault right now in fact .
Cat

[fps plus]

What I have found with borescopes is that some really poor looking barrels shoot quite well actually. That being said they can confirm ones suspicions of why a barrel may not be shooting well .

[duceman]

What I have found with borescopes is that some really poor looking barrels shoot quite well actually. That being said they can confirm ones suspicions of why a barrel may not be shooting well .

very true. i find the value in my borescope in determining barrel wear/ cleanliness. i’ve looked through more bores that absolutely shocked me with how well they shot for the condition of the bore.
rusty, copper fouled, 12” of rifling missing in the bore followed by another 12” of fire cracking. still hunt deer for a lifetime.
as my gunsmith buddy said to me when i asked about something i thought i saw in a new barrel; ‘does it shoot? if so who cares what you think you saw?’

[Mb-MBR]

Like most, i have way more guns then I need or will ever use. Just something about acquiring a new pea shooter, whether its new or old. My ritual after acquiring is to dismantle and clean, check bedding and clean the bore. I have one scope that I use on any new acquisition. I do this because I know its reliable and know if the gun doesn't shoot it wont be due to a faulty scope, which has happened a few times over the years.

Next is a range test with factory ammo. If I'm not pleased with the results, then I hit the reloading bench and get it recrowned.

I am not a target shooter by any means and most likely my guns outshoot me. But I am good enough to know if I have a gun capable of MOA or better. My worst experience was a Browning BLR chambered in 243, thankfully it was new and was able to send it back........

[Grizzly Adams1]

I suspect most rifles can shoot better than the guy holding them. :D

Grizz

[Dick284]

The nut behind the bolt, and the jerk behind the trigger are the biggest variable with respect to accuracy.

[Smoky buck]

I have fait my rifles will out preform me if human error is eliminated

[Ackleyman]

Barrels are changed for a reason. Daniel Boone can't make a burnt out barrel more accurate. Benchmark , Bartlein , Hart , Krieger and others would not be in business selling lots of barrels.

[Bushleague]

I have fait my rifles will out preform me if human error is eliminated

At the range, sure, I can outshoot some of my rifles... in the field, very doubtful.

[urban rednek]

Barrels are changed for a reason. Daniel Boone can't make a burnt out barrel more accurate. Benchmark , Bartlein , Hart , Krieger and others would not be in business selling lots of barrels.

Replacing worn out or damaged parts is a no-brainer. But, like all sports that require equipment to participate, rather than training and focusing on technique, many believe they can simply purchase a skill upgrade.
That's marketing. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

OT- I like to believe I can shoot to my rifles full potential. Some days, I almost get there.

[Drewski Canuck]

You would be surprised how an old good shooter can be returned to being a good shooter rifle simply by re crowning the barrel.

What the magic is for that last fraction of a second that a bullet leaves the barrel is as opposed to the first 22 - 24 inches, I cannot tell you, but if the lands are re cut and square the magic often returns to make the gun accurate again. Usually only a 1/16 of an inch is all it takes to get back to good accuracy.

But suggesting that the shooter is generally more accurate than the gun, that is pure ego.

Drewski

[Twisted Canuck]

I suspect most rifles can shoot better than the guy holding them. :D

Grizz

The nut behind the bolt, and the jerk behind the trigger are the biggest variable with respect to accuracy.

Hey!! I resemble that remark!! :mad3:

[catnthehat]

I always suggest to someone complaining about their rifle's accuracy to get someone else behind thee rifle, someone who is a known good shooter.
Normally two things happen - they either ask who to get, or the conversation ends and they walk away mumbling about how it is not them!! LOL:sHa_sarcasticlol:
I have often got someone else to shoot my rifles if they are scoped to verify, but in the case of 90% of my long range rifles, if I have doubts about the accuracy, I take the irons and sling off , and put my 9-36X IOR on and bench the rifle at 500 meters and 1,000 meters - that normally ends up with me mumbling that my form needs some rework , but happy that my load and rifle are still fine!!:budo:
Cat

[Bushrat]

I have often got someone else to shoot my rifles if they are scoped to verify, but in the case of 90% of my long range rifles, if I have doubts about the accuracy, I take the irons and sling off , and put my 9-36X IOR on and bench the rifle at 500 meters and 1,000 meters - that normally ends up with me mumbling that my form needs some rework , but happy that my load and rifle are still fine!!:budo:
Cat

I keep tellin you to get parallax adjustable peep sites, but you just don't listen...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[catnthehat]

I keep tellin you to get parallax adjustable peep sites, but you just don't listen...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

I have been looking for years and haven't found any yet, probably need to find a specialty store that stocks them along with blue steam and skyhooks!:budo:
Cat

[Jerry D]

Hahah skyhooks. That brings back some great memories of my grandfather. Always sending the new guy to go get some skyhooks!

Yes a known good shooter makes a big difference!


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[Dean2]

I have guns that I can shoot better than they are capable of, and that is true for quite a few guys on here. Think of it this way, if you have one 223 that will shoot .2 and another .223 that won't shoot better than .7, no matter what you do with loads, bedding etc, is it the shooter or the gun? Form, practice, wind, and a host of other factors, including the shooter all matter, but if day in day out, shot side by side, and one gun is far more accurate than another, then you can shoot better than that gun.

If one guy can shoot a gun into .2 and you can't do better than .5 with it, then the gun is more accurate than you. Those two ways are really the only way to know for sure.

[EZM]

I had a Remington 7600 pump in 30-06 that would shoot no better than 6"-8" groups at 100yds (off the bench). I had no confidence even taking this gun hunting or shooting at anything from field positions. It would have been unethical and foolish.

Didn't matter who shot it, it was brutal. Not sure what the deal with the gun was, but this is one gun I know where "it wasn't me". I was a better shooter than that gun for sure. I'm not great, but I'm also not that bad either.

My most accurate gun, a gun Dean helped me restock and bed, is probably the most accurate gun I own when shooting the right bullets - and in this case, I will pull a shot (or sometimes two) from each group and I know it the minute the gun goes off. Nothing worse than printing the first 4 shots into a 3/4 MOA group, getting excited, really concentrating then flying the last shot and inch and a half off !!!!!! lol.

This is why I can never be a marksman ....

[huntinstuff]

My rifle exceeds my abilities

Im good with my rifle

My son is surgical with my rifle

[duceman]

in answer to the original question, part of the reason i have too many guns is so that there is usually one i can outperform...... but i’m working on catching up to the good ones😂😂

[daveyn]

Replacing worn out or damaged parts is a no-brainer. But, like all sports that require equipment to participate, rather than training and focusing on technique, many believe they can simply purchase a skill upgrade.
That's marketing. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

.

Golfers are the living proof of that statement. There is no flaw in the game that can't be fixed with the latest magic club.

[EZM]

Golfers are the living proof of that statement. There is no flaw in the game that can't be fixed with the latest magic club.

Yup - probably the one sport where there is a gadget for everyone - and the latest clubs and balls are always "better".

Money pit sport like no other .....

[OL_JR]

I had a Remington 7600 pump in 30-06 that would shoot no better than 6"-8" groups at 100yds (off the bench). I had no confidence even taking this gun hunting or shooting at anything from field positions. It would have been unethical and foolish.

Didn't matter who shot it, it was brutal. Not sure what the deal with the gun was, but this is one gun I know where "it wasn't me". I was a better shooter than that gun for sure. I'm not great, but I'm also not that bad either.

My most accurate gun, a gun Dean helped me restock and bed, is probably the most accurate gun I own when shooting the right bullets - and in this case, I will pull a shot (or sometimes two) from each group and I know it the minute the gun goes off. Nothing worse than printing the first 4 shots into a 3/4 MOA group, getting excited, really concentrating then flying the last shot and inch and a half off !!!!!! lol.

This is why I can never be a marksman ....

My first rifle was a 760 pump in 30-06 and ya definitely not a tack driver by any means... Lent it to one of the wifes relatives with a full disclaimer and haven't been in any hurry to get it back.

[EdmontonEli]

Never had that issue happened to me. Usually it's me being the issue, instead of the rifle.

[gunluvr]

I'm no world class sniper by any means but I've never had a heavy barreled rifle that didn't shoot well. Maybe that says more about me than about rifles. A heavy rifle on a proper rest just reduces many of the things you can mess up. So no, I can't say my marksmanship is better than my rifle's ability, to be honest.

[Don_Parsons]

If the unit is a quality shooter with a proven optic,,, the hands that hold it are ture,,, then anything is possible...

Oh wait,,,,,,, wait,,,,,,, dam paper target moved on me again...

Followed up by another miss !!!

{Emoji} Sad Face Hand Plant

[Mb-MBR]

Without sounding totally arrogant and egotistical, I am good enough to know if I have a lemon in my hands at the range or a gun that needs some altering or attention. I think most people that shoot enough can call a "flyer" without checking the target knowing they've done something wrong.

Whenever I'm testing a new rig, I always bring one of my best shooters just to let myself know its not me its the gun.........if that one doesn't shoot, time to pack up or take a break.. LOL

[marky_mark]

Without sounding totally arrogant and egotistical, I am good enough to know if I have a lemon in my hands at the range or a gun that needs some altering or attention. I think most people that shoot enough can call a "flyer" without checking the target knowing they've done something wrong.

Whenever I'm testing a new rig, I always bring one of my best shooters just to let myself know its not me its the gun.........if that one doesn't shoot, time to pack up or take a break.. LOL

Good idea 👍

[Dick284]

Without sounding totally arrogant and egotistical, I am good enough to know if I have a lemon in my hands at the range or a gun that needs some altering or attention. I think most people that shoot enough can call a "flyer" without checking the target knowing they've done something wrong.

Whenever I'm testing a new rig, I always bring one of my best shooters just to let myself know its not me its the gun.........if that one doesn't shoot, time to pack up or take a break.. LOL

How many times have we seen this scenario play out, my blah blah blah model such and such shoots poorly. The usual scope, rings, mounts, action screw replies ensue. Followed by the check the bedding, clean the fouling type comments, it’s almost a predictable thread progression across the board. Somewhere in there is the obligatory try a different loading feedback.

Then at last is the let someone else shoot the rifle suggestions…… after that crickets!

Why……
Because it hurts the shooters ego to assume they are the issue, or as some of us say the nut behind the bolt, or the jerk behind the trigger.

On numerous occasions when I’m not feeling it or perhaps I’m a bit conflicted, or just plain getting weird results with a rifle, I’ll arrange to meet up with Bushrat for Sunday mass at the range and see what or how things play out for him.

We can all fall into a funk, or get the blight of some sorts, backing up and getting a second opinion on things isn’t a bad thing, sometimes it’s an issue with our own mind or the wax in our own ears, and the interactions with a shooting buddy is all that’s needed to rid the demon’s from within.

[eschafer]

I have a 270, 7mm-08 and 338 WM all Browning A-Bolt I Medallions. The 270 and 7mm-08 shoot lites out.... The 338 WM can't ever achieve better than a 2.5" group at 100 yds... Because of the added recoil, I'm not 100% certain it's not the shooter's inability... :)

Guess I need a much better marksman to shoot it for me.... or, have someone knowledgeable to help me bed the action correctly... Dean, how far from Winnipeg are you?... I need help.. :)

[boomstick]

without a dout my rifles are way better then i am lol

[6MT]

without a dout my rifles are way better then i am lol

Yeah...you and me both. Funny thing is, every time I've tried someone else's rifle when that person complains that it doesn't shoot well....I can "make it" shoot much better then the owner can.

Maybe I have a mysterious power.:thinking-006:

btw...I love your user name!

[Twisted Canuck]

Shooting pistol a lot will really expose weakness in your form, and it broadly will apply to any firearm. Some days, I am just ON and can shot one hole groups with my 627, or my X5, or even the P226. And some days I am all over the place. An extra cup of coffee in the morning can add 3" to a group on a bad day.

Point being, you learn pretty quick with pistols that it is very, very rarely an issue with the equipment. So, if my groups aren't great, I assume it's not the rifle, or the ammo, or the cross wind. Nope, it's me. And then I have to work on the fundamentals. Grip or cheek weld, breathing, trigger, sight picture.

All my guns shoot better then I do. Particularly if they have iron sights (pistols). All I need is for the young RSOs at my club to outshoot me with my gear, and I know that it's in large part due to my eyesight at 55.

That's life.

[catnthehat]

This is heard lots at our range
"Dang. This danged rifle ain't shootin' worth crap today!
"Wannna make it shoot better?"
"SURE!"
"Pass it over hear!":sHa_sarcasticlol:
Cat

[Ackleyman]

Replacing worn out or damaged parts is a no-brainer. But, like all sports that require equipment to participate, rather than training and focusing on technique, many believe they can simply purchase a skill upgrade.
That's marketing. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

OT- I like to believe I can shoot to my rifles full potential. Some days, I almost get there.

I agree, lots of trigger time to get a bit better. If your not grouping too good let your buddy shoot the rifle. Could be the load ?? ...not usually your rifle. But you can purchase equipment to help with a skill up-grade , like a good target scope instead of a POS. If you only fire a few rounds out of a hunting rifle it doesn't matter a whole bunch. If your trying to shoot 1/2 moa @1000 m that's another game.

[catnthehat]

I missed 2 out of 8 at 200 meters offhand today, and I can tell you for a fact the rifle will stack em' at 500 off the bench. Weren't the rifle.......
Cat

[Mavrick]

Like all people in this world, I was much better a few years ago then I am now. When shooting targets I’m good enough to still have fun. When shooting game I’m good enough to to put meat in the freezer. I know for a fact that a lot of my guns can now out perform me, but there was a time I felt I was better then them. Then again in my youth I was wrong about a lot of things, and blamed my equipment.

[Smokinyotes]

If I don’t shoot for awhile I get rusty pretty quick. It usually takes me a couple days to get back to my best. If I have a gun that is shooting groups 3/4” or larger it’s usually the gun or the load that’s the issue. If I have a gun that will shoot groups in the .3’s and then I shoot a .8 then I’m the problem.

[32-40win]

Not sure I've ever come close to what the gun can do, some days, maybe on the days when I can do no wrong ( which ain't often), other days, I shouldn't have bothered. Some of that is very dependent on what I was asking of myself that day.