electricity

[walleye guy]

So apparently with the extreme cold, Alberta's electrical infrastructure is close to being overloaded, and are asking people to cut back on unnecessary usage.
Wonder what would be happening if we were all driving electric vehicles??

[elkhunter11]

I just saw the notice, and was thinking the same thing. If we were dependent on electric vehicles, we would be in a very bad situation.

https://www.iheartradio.ca/am800/news/alberta-electric-grid-challenged-operator-issues-emergency-alert-during-supper-hour-1.16797420

[Dick284]

What’s one thing that usually doesn’t happen when we have peak electricity consumption in Alberta?

You got it, the winds aren’t here because we have the influence of a stable high pressure system when it’s either really hot or really cold.

All this wind generation and we are lucky to be getting 20% of the net installed capacity onto the grid.

How’s all this wind generation working for you?

Sucks too that the 2 biggest hydro plants are on river flow restrictions due to icing conditions on the NSR.

It can all be watched in real time right here:
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

https://i.imgur.com/EuEya8P.png

[Arty]

I'd be very interested in exactly where the difficulty is. Did everybody decide to do laundry Monday night? Or did the entire province decide to use expensive space heaters instead of turning up the thermostat for their building furnace? How does 11.5 GW demand compare to the average over a winter?

' "extreme weather" affected the operations ' . To me this means some power plants took a hit due from something freezing up on their end. The whole Texas infrastructure was not set up and maintained for freezing weather, and few people there have big furnace capacity so they needed space heating at any price. I assume neither is relevant here.

Alberta winters haven't changed much in a few thousand years, and I can't ever remember radio broadcasts or the TV telling everyone not to cook supper some night or shut off their furnace motors so that the grid doesn't collapse.

Sounds more like the result of taking down or mothballing coal plants, and trying to be politically correct about explaining that. But I'd sure like to hear some detail.

[urban rednek]

You guys! Stop exaggerating the situation, you are making mountains out of mole hills. :rolleye2:
It's like the budget, it will balance itself. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[pikergolf]

Wonder if it had anything to do with every vehicle in Alberta being plugged in. :thinking-006:

[CNP]

I'd be very interested in exactly where the difficulty is. Did everybody decide to do laundry Monday night? Or did the entire province decide to use expensive space heaters instead of turning up the thermostat for their building furnace? How does 11.5 GW demand compare to the average over a winter?

' "extreme weather" affected the operations ' . To me this means some power plants took a hit due from something freezing up on their end. The whole Texas infrastructure was not set up and maintained for freezing weather, and few people there have big furnace capacity so they needed space heating at any price. I assume neither is relevant here.

Alberta winters haven't changed much in a few thousand years, and I can't ever remember radio broadcasts or the TV telling everyone not to cook supper some night or shut off their furnace motors so that the grid doesn't collapse.

Sounds more like the result of taking down or mothballing coal plants, and trying to be politically correct about explaining that. But I'd sure like to hear some detail.

It's been a cold week from the top to the bottom of AB (unusual?). There are 1.5 million more people in AB now than there was 20 years ago, all sucking on the grid. We live in a plugged-in culture. Wind turbines and solar panels providing negligible output in the windless and sunless conditions being experienced at the same time as a province wide cold front.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Wind and solar sound good. Don’t work plain and simple. We better fire up some new coal and nat gas power plants or were going to end up like Europe. Dark and cold.

[waldedw]

Wonder if it had anything to do with every vehicle in Alberta being plugged in. :thinking-006:

Mine are in the warm garage but yes I would bet that there were a pile of vehicles plugged in, at my daughters house there was 3 and at my sons house there was 3 more, millions in Alberta alone.

[Bigwoodsman]

Remember Texas last winter?? The more we rely on electricity will surely result in all of us freezing some day. And that day might be sooner than we think.

BW

[elkhunter11]

Wonder if it had anything to do with every vehicle in Alberta being plugged in. :thinking-006:

Imagine if they were all plugged in to charge them, instead of just a block heater being plugged in. And of course at -40, you need to charge them in a heated building.

[Dynamic]

So apparently with the extreme cold, Alberta's electrical infrastructure is close to being overloaded, and are asking people to cut back on unnecessary usage.
Wonder what would be happening if we were all driving electric vehicles??

Every time I hear this "oh my goodness the infrastructure can't handle electric cars" (And I sure when I go back to work I will have to endure this 100x more) I cannot help but wonder how these people think we got to where we are today. You know.....given that 100 years ago there was no electricity, no natural gas, no cell towers, no municipal water, no roads. There was nothing but mostly forest and prairie in this province. I wonder if our great great grandparents had such a defeatist attitude?

When electric cars start to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Call me a dinosaur but I keep wondering, who's driving this agenda into oblivion, certainly nobody I know is. :confused:

Grizz

[gunluvr]

Every time I hear this "oh my goodness the infrastructure can't handle electric cars" (And I sure when I go back to work I will have to endure this 100x more) I cannot help but wonder how these people think we got to where we are today. You know.....given that 100 years ago there was no electricity, no natural gas, no cell towers, no municipal water, no roads. There was nothing but mostly forest and prairie in this province. I wonder if our great great grandparents had such a defeatist attitude?

When electric cars start to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.
It's easy to be confident and complacent when the power's on and your house is warm and comfortable.
At -35 we're maybe 24 hrs from anarchy if the power goes out.

[Savage Bacon]

Well I did my part. We took the Xmas tree down last night. It had about a mile of lights.

We've ran the house off of our generator during power outages before. I'm not sure how easy it would pull start in the extreme cold tho.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[gunluvr]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jan/11/nine-meals-anarchy-sustainable-system

[elkhunter11]

Every time I hear this "oh my goodness the infrastructure can't handle electric cars" (And I sure when I go back to work I will have to endure this 100x more) I cannot help but wonder how these people think we got to where we are today. You know.....given that 100 years ago there was no electricity, no natural gas, no cell towers, no municipal water, no roads. There was nothing but mostly forest and prairie in this province. I wonder if our great great grandparents had such a defeatist attitude?

When electric cars start to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.

Actually, there was electricity in multiple Alberta cities in the 1880s, so you are not off to a good start.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

As to scaling up infrastructure, it will cost a great deal of money, which the taxpayers will have to come up with, so given our current financial situation, it won't be happening very quickly. How high can taxes go, before many people can't afford their day to day living expenses? And of course wind and solar power will cost even more, because they are less efficient in our winter climate, and the green movement , will oppose electricity produced by using fossil fuels.

And then there is the issue of charging lithium batteries when it's -40 out. They don't like to be charged at temperatures below 0, so you either require a heated parking area, or you need to use more electricity to heat the battery to 0, and then keep it there, as you charge the battery. The simple fact, is that most people don't have heated parking, so it will take a great deal of electricity to heat the batteries, driving the demand load even higher.
And if we switch to electric emergency vehicles, we will still need massive amounts of backup electrical sources to charge them during power outages.
So while we all realize that we are moving towards new ways to power vehicles, we are a long ways from being ready to have everyone driving electrical vehicles.
Coincidentally, the people that keep downplaying the issues that we face in converting to electric vehicles, are usually the people that haven't spent much time working in the electrical field, and they don't realize what is involved.

[Big Grey Wolf]

We will need many more high transmission lines to move All that green power in future. Looking forward to big transmisson towers in my back yard.
Sorry Green power from solar/wind is not feasible in Big Cold Country like Canada. We better build more semi Green natural gas power plants if we do not want to "Freeze in the Dark in the Future"

[EZM]

Every time I hear this "oh my goodness the infrastructure can't handle electric cars" (And I sure when I go back to work I will have to endure this 100x more) I cannot help but wonder how these people think we got to where we are today. You know.....given that 100 years ago there was no electricity, no natural gas, no cell towers, no municipal water, no roads. There was nothing but mostly forest and prairie in this province. I wonder if our great great grandparents had such a defeatist attitude?

When electric cars start to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.

YUP - was thinking the same thing ....

Blaming the few hundred electric cars is utterly ridiculous.

I wonder if anyone here stopped and thought about the fact that this time of year (with it shortest days) has us running the lights on for more hours, or maybe our electricity consumption itself with Xmass lights, cooking for the family, our furnace fans running as we heat more during the colder times etc... MAY just be a bit more of a draw compared to to the one hippy in the neighborhood with the Tesla plugged in?

[fishtank]

Everyone is Plugging in the car block heater night at these temperatures… and probably using oven to reheat all the Christmas leftovers..

[elkhunter11]

YUP - was thinking the same thing ....

Blaming the few hundred electric cars is utterly ridiculous.

I wonder if anyone here stopped and thought about the fact that this time of year (with it shortest days) has us running the lights on for more hours, or maybe our electricity consumption itself with Xmass lights, cooking for the family, our furnace fans running as we heat more during the colder times etc... MAY just be a bit more of a draw compared to to the one hippy in the neighborhood with the Tesla plugged in?

People aren't saying that the alert is a result of the very few electric vehicles we do have, what we are saying, is that if even half our vehicles were electric, rather than the few that we currently have , we would not have been able to supply the electricity that we require in weather like this. So we are currently a very long ways from being ready to fully transition to electric vehicles.

[gunluvr]

Government is doing everything it can to put all our energy demands on just one infrastructure: electric power generation and distribution. With a handful of electric energy providers having monopoly over virtually everything we do, which way do you suppose prices will go?

[no-regard]

Actually, there was electricity in multiple Alberta cities in the 1880s, so you are not off to a good start.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

As to scaling up infrastructure, it will cost a great deal of money, which the taxpayers will have to come up with, so given our current financial situation, it won't be happening very quickly. How high can taxes go, before many people can't afford their day to day living expenses? And of course wind and solar power will cost even more, because they are less efficient in our winter climate, and the green movement , will oppose electricity produced by using fossil fuels.

And then there is the issue of charging lithium batteries when it's -40 out. They don't like to be charged at temperatures below 0, so you either require a heated parking area, or you need to use more electricity to heat the battery to 0, and then keep it there, as you charge the battery. The simple fact, is that most people don't have heated parking, so it will take a great deal of electricity to heat the batteries, driving the demand load even higher.
And if we switch to electric emergency vehicles, we will still need massive amounts of backup electrical sources to charge them during power outages.
So while we all realize that we are moving towards new ways to power vehicles, we are a long ways from being ready to have everyone driving electrical vehicles.
Coincidentally, the people that keep downplaying the issues that we face in converting to electric vehicles, are usually the people that haven't spent much time working in the electrical field, and they don't realize what is involved.

People aren't saying that the alert is a result of the very few electric vehicles we do have, what we are saying, is that if even half our vehicles were electric, rather than the few that we currently have , we would not have been able to supply the electricity that we require in weather like this. So we are currently a very long ways from being ready to fully transition to electric vehicles.


Well said, on both accounts. Upgrading the grid is a monumental task that most people have no comprehension of, it will take a very long time - especially when compared to the unrealistic carbon goals that are being set.

With that being said I do believe there is a place for wind and solar, both of which will improve with time, just as our O&G production has improved over time and will continue to do so if given the opportunity. We are a very long way from being done with O&G, how people don't see this is beyond comprehension.

[MyAlberta]

People aren't saying that the alert is a result of the very few electric vehicles we do have, what we are saying, is that if even half our vehicles were electric, rather than the few that we currently have , we would not have been able to supply the electricity that we require in weather like this. So we are currently a very long ways from being ready to fully transition to electric vehicles.

That’s clearly not what the OP was indicating.

[gunluvr]

That’s clearly not what the OP was indicating.

Thats what EZM was indicating

[MyAlberta]

Thats what EZM was indicating

How so, I missed it

[traderal]

We have a family member who has worked at tthe Wabamun site most of his life. His words, expect to see a lot of brownouts in the near future and prepare your self. There is no more common sense in political circles, the running of generating stations is more about shareholder profits while minimizing staff and expecting huge handouts from government, which tend to disappear in stateside coffers. You can't just build new stations overnight and our current ones are fairly old. Just sad that our tax money is spent on LRT's, wokeness, hockey arenas, slush money to Eastern provinces to name a few. No longer anyone left in politics with vision since the Lougheed days. I live on a farm and know just how useless this alternative energy is during winter but you can't tell that to the brainwashed crowd so some of you just enjoy your lattes and bicycle paths while it lasts.

[walleye guy]

People aren't saying that the alert is a result of the very few electric vehicles we do have, what we are saying, is that if even half our vehicles were electric, rather than the few that we currently have , we would not have been able to supply the electricity that we require in weather like this. So we are currently a very long ways from being ready to fully transition to electric vehicles.

This is exactly my point thanx elkhunter!

There is no way green power ( wind & solar ) would be able to meet our demands without some incredible leaps in technology within the next very near future, and if we cant use fossil fuel what are our options ? nuclear! Not my first choice ! Hydro Electric! Say goodbye to many more ecosystems this is not a green choice.
Point is, we are decades if not century's away from eliminating the need for fossil fuels, and until we can we should be focusing more resources on how to use them more efficiently and with less environmental impact.
Putting all our hope in that electricity will solve all our problems is not in my mind attainable in the near future.
I'm not saying that we do not need to change how we do things, just that we are a long way from meeting a 0 carbon footprint.
I don't think I am defeatist but am a realist

[MyAlberta]

This is exactly my point thanx elkhunter!

There is no way green power ( wind & solar ) would be able to meet our demands without some incredible leaps in technology within the next very near future, and if we cant use fossil fuel what are our options ? nuclear! Not my first choice ! Hydro Electric! Say goodbye to many more ecosystems this is not a green choice.
Point is, we are decades if not century's away from eliminating the need for fossil fuels, and until we can we should be focusing more resources on how to use them more efficiently and with less environmental impact.
Putting all our hope in that electricity will solve all our problems is not in my mind attainable in the near future.
I'm not saying that we do not need to change how we do things, just that we are a long way from meeting a 0 carbon footprint.
I don't think I am defeatist but am a realist

And I agree 100%. But doesn’t that point out the absurdity of your original post, suggesting that today’s infrastructure exists when at some point in the future everyone may be driving electric.

[walleye guy]

And I agree 100%. But doesn’t that point out the absurdity of your original post, suggesting that today’s infrastructure exists when at some point in the future everyone may be driving electric.

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood or I wasn't clear enough about the point I was trying to make in original post.
Point is, if our infrastructure is currently under stress, we in no way have the plans in place to meet the goals our current government and many others around the world have set.

[MyAlberta]

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood or I wasn't clear enough about the point I was trying to make in original post.
Point is, if our infrastructure is currently under stress, we in no way have the plans in place to meet the goals our current government and many others around the world have set.

Total agreement.

[elkhunter11]

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood or I wasn't clear enough about the point I was trying to make in original post.
Point is, if our infrastructure is currently under stress, we in no way have the plans in place to meet the goals our current government and many others around the world have set.

You were clear enough for many of us to understand, some people just misunderstood.

[traderal]

I have to look daily at a huge DC line running 1/2 mile away from the farm yard, ending sort of in Brooks, just waiting for a major power supply, possibly a nuclear station or tarsands generating station. It is like an arrow pointing south to the US market. Guess who paid for it, Alberta taxpayers, guess who takes the profits, the power corp. What a sweetheart deal. I am not against alternate energy, the original Tesla was really onto something. It is the greed and avarice and politicization by a few to control the outcome that I am against.

[Dynamic]

Actually, there was electricity in multiple Alberta cities in the 1880s, so you are not off to a good start.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Okay your right???

As to scaling up infrastructure, it will cost a great deal of money, which the taxpayers will have to come up with, so given our current financial situation, it won't be happening very quickly. How high can taxes go, before many people can't afford their day to day living expenses? And of course wind and solar power will cost even more, because they are less efficient in our winter climate, and the green movement , will oppose electricity produced by using fossil fuels.

You do know we pay tax on every liter of gasoline sold right? Just a quick google says 1/3 of what we pay for gas is just taxes. Or is it okay because it is a tax on fossil fuels? As for the living expenses point you make I find that hard to believe. I look down my street in my town and it is totally ridiculous to suggest that people are not going to be able to pay their living expenses when most houses have one or two 50-80K massive trucks or 8 passenger mommy mobiles to shuttle their 2 kids around town. To me it is priorities. I'm getting sick of hearing about people struggling to pay for fuel and essentials when you got a 500-1000 vehicle payment every month and a 40k RV that is used 5 times a year. Electric cars are not going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. People are their own worst enemies sometimes.

And then there is the issue of charging lithium batteries when it's -40 out. They don't like to be charged at temperatures below 0, so you either require a heated parking area, or you need to use more electricity to heat the battery to 0, and then keep it there, as you charge the battery. The simple fact, is that most people don't have heated parking, so it will take a great deal of electricity to heat the batteries, driving the demand load even higher.

This is a problem, more so for us in the prairies. That being said their is some flexibility with charging when the demand is lower from what I understand. And it is not going to be this cold very long. I agree we need to scale for the possibility for long periods of extremely cold weather.

And if we switch to electric emergency vehicles, we will still need massive amounts of backup electrical sources to charge them during power outages.

Emergency vehicles should be the last vehicles considered for EV IMO. We are not at that level for EV tech. For transit and other non critical services, maybe.

So while we all realize that we are moving towards new ways to power vehicles, we are a long ways from being ready to have everyone driving electrical vehicles. Coincidentally, the people that keep downplaying the issues that we face in converting to electric vehicles, are usually the people that haven't spent much time working in the electrical field, and they don't realize what is involved.

Nobody is saying it will be easy. Nobody is saying it will happen overnight. You do not have to work in the electrical field to understand that the issues that come with moving towards EV's. I just find it weird that the major issues people have with EV's is that it will overload our current electrical grid.

[Dick284]

I have to look daily at a huge DC line running 1/2 mile away from the farm yard, ending sort of in Brooks, just waiting for a major power supply, possibly a nuclear station or tarsands generating station. It is like an arrow pointing south to the US market. Guess who paid for it, Alberta taxpayers, guess who takes the profits, the power corp. What a sweetheart deal. I am not against alternate energy, the original Tesla was really onto something. It is the greed and avarice and politicization by a few to control the outcome that I am against.

You do not understand grid operations, so please quit with the hand wringing and rumour mongering.

There already is power generation up at the Ft Mac oil sands sites, and nuclear as much as that is what is needed suffers from NIMBY, so don't expect even cold fusion to get any support.

Post #3 has a great link in it, maybe try and understand that Alberta imports power 95% of the time from Montana, Saskatchewan, and BC.

The issue is Alberta does not have enough base loaded constant generation available to cover high demand periods, solar and wind are intermittent generation at best, and battery technology isn’t robust enough to provide peaking support.

2, 1000 MW cold fusion plants, plus another 350-400 MW of hydro is what we need, shortest possible approval and build time is around 10 years at a cost of about $500 million to $1 billion per MW to build.

[elkhunter11]

Actually, there was electricity in multiple Alberta cities in the 1880s, so you are not off to a good start.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Okay your right???

As to scaling up infrastructure, it will cost a great deal of money, which the taxpayers will have to come up with, so given our current financial situation, it won't be happening very quickly. How high can taxes go, before many people can't afford their day to day living expenses? And of course wind and solar power will cost even more, because they are less efficient in our winter climate, and the green movement , will oppose electricity produced by using fossil fuels.

You do know we pay tax on every liter of gasoline sold right? Just a quick google says 1/3 of what we pay for gas is just taxes. Or is it okay because it is a tax on fossil fuels? As for the living expenses point you make I find that hard to believe. I look down my street in my town and it is totally ridiculous to suggest that people are not going to be able to pay their living expenses when most houses have one or two 50-80K massive trucks or 8 passenger mommy mobiles to shuttle their 2 kids around town. To me it is priorities. I'm getting sick of hearing about people struggling to pay for fuel and essentials when you got a 500-1000 vehicle payment every month and a 40k RV that is used 5 times a year. Electric cars are not going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. People are their own worst enemies sometimes.

And then there is the issue of charging lithium batteries when it's -40 out. They don't like to be charged at temperatures below 0, so you either require a heated parking area, or you need to use more electricity to heat the battery to 0, and then keep it there, as you charge the battery. The simple fact, is that most people don't have heated parking, so it will take a great deal of electricity to heat the batteries, driving the demand load even higher.

This is a problem, more so for us in the prairies. That being said their is some flexibility with charging when the demand is lower from what I understand. And it is not going to be this cold very long. I agree we need to scale for the possibility for long periods of extremely cold weather.

And if we switch to electric emergency vehicles, we will still need massive amounts of backup electrical sources to charge them during power outages.

Emergency vehicles should be the last vehicles considered for EV IMO. We are not at that level for EV tech. For transit and other non critical services, maybe.

So while we all realize that we are moving towards new ways to power vehicles, we are a long ways from being ready to have everyone driving electrical vehicles. Coincidentally, the people that keep downplaying the issues that we face in converting to electric vehicles, are usually the people that haven't spent much time working in the electrical field, and they don't realize what is involved.

Nobody is saying it will be easy. Nobody is saying it will happen overnight. You do not have to work in the electrical field to understand that the issues that come with moving towards EV's. I just find it weird that the major issues people have with EV's is that it will overload our current electrical grid.

The carbon tax is increasing the cost of every single goods and service that we buy, and it keeps going up, as well, inflation is spiraling out of control, because our government keeps printing money, as they spend it like drunken sailors. And we already know that interest rates will be increased to try and control inflation, which will cost us even more, so regardless of why some people are within a paycheck or two of going bankrupt, they can't afford even more taxes to raise many, many billions to upgrade our electrical capacity. Be glad that those people own a $50-80k truck, instead of a $50-80k Tesla, because we aren't ready to charge that many Teslas yet.
As for the cold, it can last for weeks,at these temperatures, so it's not like you can just not drive until it warms up. And winter lasts for months, and it could get this cold at anytime over several months. If it takes hours just to warm up batteries to charge them, that makes it much harder to stagger charging times.
As for the emergency vehicles being the last remaining non electric vehicles, what do you suppose that will do to the cost of fuel that only they use, or to the cost of parts, that only they use? The less you make, the more it costs to make, and they aren't going to keep inventories of parts all over the world, just to emergency vehicles maintained.

[Dick284]

The carbon tax is increasing the cost of every single goods and service that we buy, and it keeps going up, as well, inflation is spiraling out of control, because our government keeps printing money, as they spend it like drunken sailors. And we already know that interest rates will be increased to try and control inflation, which will cost us even more, so regardless of why some people are within a paycheck or two of going bankrupt, they can't afford even more taxes to raise many, many billions to upgrade our electrical capacity. Be glad that those people own a $50-80k truck, instead of a $50-80k Tesla, because we aren't ready to charge that many Teslas yet.
As for the cold, it can last for weeks,at these temperatures, so it's not like you can just not drive until it warms up. And winter lasts for months, and it could get this cold at anytime over several months. If it takes hours just to warm up batteries to charge them, that makes it much harder to stagger charging times.
As for the emergency vehicles being the last remaining non electric vehicles, what do you suppose that will do to the cost of fuel that only they use, or to the cost of parts, that only they use? The less you make, the more it costs to make, and they aren't going to keep inventories of parts all over the world, just to emergency vehicles maintained.

Just wait till a road tax gets added to your power bill, how else do you think maintenance is going to happen on our roads when the absurd fossil fuel road tax is down to next to nothing when the use of gas and diesel wanes.

[elkhunter11]

Just wait till a road tax gets added to your power bill, how else do you think maintenance is going to happen on our roads when the absurd fossil fuel road tax is down to next to nothing when the use of gas and diesel wanes.

A good point, the people that think they will save money by switching to electric vehicles, are in for a surprise, the government will not give up that tax revenue.

[EZM]

Be glad that those people own a $50-80k truck, instead of a $50-80k Tesla, because we aren't ready to charge that many Teslas yet.
As for the cold, it can last for weeks,at these temperatures, so it's not like you can just not drive until it warms up. And winter lasts for months, and it could get this cold at anytime over several months. If it takes hours just to warm up batteries to charge them, that makes it much harder to stagger charging times.


Electric vehicles, like the Tesla work just fine in the cold temperatures. I have watched the hippy in our cul-de-sac drive his around like he always does - to work, back, and whatever he does. His other SUV sits there - so he obviously isn't having any issues - even if he parks it outside all day at work (presumably unplugged).

Based on what I read, there is certainly a range reduction as the battery needs to keep itself warm if it's left out overnight or not plugged in - but if he brings it home, and plugs it in (his garage is unheated I think) it's just business as usual.

I think Electric cars are just fine for a "second vehicle" for the wife and kids if they are going to work/back or school/around town and they probably would be just fine for 95% of the driving most people do.

Having said that, until the technology catches up, these electric vehicles won't be the ones we take on vacation, or tow the boat to lake with, or use on any trip outside the city ......

[gunluvr]

Just wait till a road tax gets added to your power bill, how else do you think maintenance is going to happen on our roads when the absurd fossil fuel road tax is down to next to nothing when the use of gas and diesel wanes.

There either is, or there are plans to add such a tax to EV charging station fees.
It would be no surprise if home electric bills had such a tax added, too.

[thumper]

So, not only am I paying more taxes so the government can subsidize purchase of electric vehicles, but I'll be paying more taxes to build new 'green' generators and transmission lines to meet e-car electricity charging requirements, plus more taxes to replace the drop in fuel tax revenue of the gas cars they're replacing?

Does that about sum it up?

[Arty]

[...]frothing snipped[...]
the major issues people have with EV's is that it will overload our current electrical grid.
Well, that's because it will. It's basic mathematics. You take at least the amount of energy needed now for pushing road vehicles around and convert that into what it would require from our electricity grid, and you'll get something that is simply not feasible.

Recent 'stage 2' developments have clearly shown we're already at the limits of meeting demand without that additional load, for a number of debatable reasons.

But you're evidently OK with Everbody Else funding a buildout of the grid for your nice little battery-powered highway system, regardless of cost or feasibility. That simply smacks of cult behaviour like we've seen in the US government over the last year. Trying to cure hyperinflation with exponentially more spending for example, or forcing everything into some weird racist bent to plaster over real problems can only be considered marxist cult behaviour. Bad idea to go down the same path with trying to electrify everything under the sun.

I like 3-phase electric power and motors as much as anyone, but I'm not going to get unrealistic because of it. I tell you what - you go and arrange for private investment capital such as bonds, and loans from Elon, etc, to build out power grid capacity, get the government approvals for it, and get it built. Make sure vehicles are real electric vehicles such as tethered or semi-tethered (no batteries), and I'll contribute to ridership on them. Deal?

[elkhunter11]

Electric vehicles, like the Tesla work just fine in the cold temperatures. I have watched the hippy in our cul-de-sac drive his around like he always does - to work, back, and whatever he does. His other SUV sits there - so he obviously isn't having any issues - even if he parks it outside all day at work (presumably unplugged).

Based on what I read, there is certainly a range reduction as the battery needs to keep itself warm if it's left out overnight or not plugged in - but if he brings it home, and plugs it in (his garage is unheated I think) it's just business as usual.

I think Electric cars are just fine for a "second vehicle" for the wife and kids if they are going to work/back or school/around town and they probably would be just fine for 95% of the driving most people do.

Having said that, until the technology catches up, these electric vehicles won't be the ones we take on vacation, or tow the boat to lake with, or use on any trip outside the city ......

Where did anyone say that an electric vehicle wouldn't function in winter? The issue is that range is greatly reduced in cold weather, and it takes a great deal more power to charge the batteries in cold weather, unless you charge it in a heated area. So when people do calculations as to the power required to operate an electric vehicle, they need to realize that it can take more than double the electricity in winter, which happens to be our high demand time for electricity.

[Sitting Bull]

We need a nuclear power plant! Clean, green and lots of power:)

[Arty]

We need a nuclear power plant! Clean, green and lots of power:)

There's more benefit to it than most people realize. Socially, it requires a whole lot more highly-educated and paid people to build and operate so that adds to the technical expertise and kind of economy that resides in the province. France has had a huge nuclear program for decades, partially for that reason.

Of course now there is also much more advanced technology and more advanced plant available, compared to what existed in the 1960's, including feasible small-scale units. Those could be used both as a local steam source for tar sands & SAGD sites, as well as to export predictable and dependable amounts of electricity into the grid. The biggest consumption of natural gas for extracting synthetic crude is just boiling water for the steam. I suspect just converting the gas directly into oil would be more efficient than cooking dirt. Using nuclear-based heat would be better for boiling the water.

Finally, western Canada has big reserves of uranium that could fuel those plants for a long time without depending on imported stuff.

[walleye guy]

We need a nuclear power plant! Clean, green and lots of power:)

This is sort of true, but what about the nuclear waste? I'm not up on the subject, I think that they are just storing it at the moment and do not have a long term solution yet. And it is deadly dangerous for 10's of thousands of years!
Not sure I would call it green!

[EZM]

Where did anyone say that an electric vehicle wouldn't function in winter? The issue is that range is greatly reduced in cold weather, and it takes a great deal more power to charge the batteries in cold weather, unless you charge it in a heated area. So when people do calculations as to the power required to operate an electric vehicle, they need to realize that it can take more than double the electricity in winter, which happens to be our high demand time for electricity.

Easy there big fella .... Why do you think every time someone responds to add to a discussion are they looking to pick a fight with you Elk? Relax. I'm not looking to throw down :)

Go back and read my post ... this time read it without thinking you are being attacked.

My point was it won't really matter what temp it is, people will still do what they want - and still drive the cars around anyways. Cold weather isn't a deterrent. Changes nothing if someone's range goes from 400km down to 200 if they are only travelling in the city and doing maybe 30-40km then back at home. It will be just like any other day for Electric cars. it will just cost you more $ per mile I guess.

[RandyBoBandy]

There's more benefit to it than most people realize. Socially, it requires a whole lot more highly-educated and paid people to build and operate so that adds to the technical expertise and kind of economy that resides in the province. France has had a huge nuclear program for decades, partially for that reason.

Of course now there is also much more advanced technology and more advanced plant available, compared to what existed in the 1960's, including feasible small-scale units. Those could be used both as a local steam source for tar sands & SAGD sites, as well as to export predictable and dependable amounts of electricity into the grid. The biggest consumption of natural gas for extracting synthetic crude is just boiling water for the steam. I suspect just converting the gas directly into oil would be more efficient than cooking dirt. Using nuclear-based heat would be better for boiling the water.

Finally, western Canada has big reserves of uranium that could fuel those plants for a long time without depending on imported stuff.
Same applies to our oil reserves...Somehow we still import oil when we have it up the ying-yang :kap:

[flyrodfisher]

Those could be used both as a local steam source for tar sands & SAGD sites, as well as to export predictable and dependable amounts of electricity into the grid. The biggest consumption of natural gas for extracting synthetic crude is just boiling water for the steam. I suspect just converting the gas directly into oil would be more efficient than cooking dirt. Using nuclear-based heat would be better for boiling the water.

Finally, western Canada has big reserves of uranium that could fuel those plants for a long time without depending on imported stuff.

Small scale nuclear facilities for Alberta oil sand plants have been studied for decades....obviously, still not feasible...
Among the big concerns...you can't build them anywhere near the oil sands facilities as the risk of even a minor release could effectively make the entire bitumen reserve radioactive and unusable.

[59whiskers]

We have a family member who has worked at tthe Wabamun site most of his life. His words, expect to see a lot of brownouts in the near future and prepare your self. There is no more common sense in political circles, the running of generating stations is more about shareholder profits while minimizing staff and expecting huge handouts from government, which tend to disappear in stateside coffers. You can't just build new stations overnight and our current ones are fairly old. Just sad that our tax money is spent on LRT's, wokeness, hockey arenas, slush money to Eastern provinces to name a few. No longer anyone left in politics with vision since the Lougheed days. I live on a farm and know just how useless this alternative energy is during winter but you can't tell that to the brainwashed crowd so some of you just enjoy your lattes and bicycle paths while it lasts.

X2

[flyrodfisher]

Point is, if our infrastructure is currently under stress, we in no way have the plans in place to meet the goals our current government and many others around the world have set.

Correct!
Our glorious leader has said he will ban sales of internal combustion engines by 2035.
He had better start planning to upgrade the grid then...

Maybe we could just capture some of his hot air instead.

[flyrodfisher]

We need a nuclear power plant! Clean, green and lots of power:)

Bring back coal.

Although Canada is weaning itself off of the use of thermal coal for electricity production...we still mine and ship it to Asia so it can be burned there.

Guess it doesn't pollute when burnt there....
Out of sight out of mind I suppose

[flyrodfisher]

Back to the battery powered cars...

Question;

In the event that I run out of gas in my truck...I walk to the nearest service station and get a jerry can to get me back to fill up.

When you run out of battery power on the road in your tesla...what do you do?
:thinking-006:

[Trochu]

When you run out of battery power on the road in your tesla...what do you do?
:thinking-006:

Assuming you are wanting to keep the vehicle, you essentially have two options.

1. Tow it; or,
2. Charge it, presumably with another EV.

[flyrodfisher]

Assuming you are wanting to keep the vehicle, you essentially have two options.

1. Tow it; or,
2. Charge it, presumably with another EV.

I'm thinking towing would be your only choice...if you decided to keep it...lol

Don't think that another EV has the capability...or the jam to charge another...

[59whiskers]

Small scale nuclear facilities for Alberta oil sand plants have been studied for decades....obviously, still not feasible...
Among the big concerns...you can't build them anywhere near the oil sands facilities as the risk of even a minor release could effectively make the entire bitumen reserve radioactive and unusable.

Good point thought out.

[Trochu]

I'm thinking towing would be your only choice...if you decided to keep it...lol

Don't think that another EV has the capability...or the jam to charge another...

I guess leaving it is technically an option....:)

The tech is coming shortly.

Ford Lightning (https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/ford-demonstrates-the-f-150-lightning-charging-other-evs-at-l2-speeds/)

[elkhunter11]

Easy there big fella .... Why do you think every time someone responds to add to a discussion are they looking to pick a fight with you Elk? Relax. I'm not looking to throw down :)

Go back and read my post ... this time read it without thinking you are being attacked.

My point was it won't really matter what temp it is, people will still do what they want - and still drive the cars around anyways. Cold weather isn't a deterrent. Changes nothing if someone's range goes from 400km down to 200 if they are only travelling in the city and doing maybe 30-40km then back at home. It will be just like any other day for Electric cars. it will just cost you more $ per mile I guess.

I was just pointing out, that the thread was about the electrical grid capacity, and the effect that electric vehicles would have on the ability of the grid to meet our power demands during this cold weather. It wasn't, and still isn't about whether electric vehicles will actually function in cold weather.

[flyrodfisher]

I guess leaving it is technically an option....:)

The tech is coming shortly.

Ford Lightning (https://electrek.co/2021/12/21/ford-demonstrates-the-f-150-lightning-charging-other-evs-at-l2-speeds/)

Very interesting...thx for the link

[gunluvr]

Electric vehicles, like the Tesla work just fine in the cold temperatures. I have watched the hippy in our cul-de-sac drive his around like he always does - to work, back, and whatever he does. His other SUV sits there - so he obviously isn't having any issues - even if he parks it outside all day at work (presumably unplugged).

Based on what I read, there is certainly a range reduction as the battery needs to keep itself warm if it's left out overnight or not plugged in - but if he brings it home, and plugs it in (his garage is unheated I think) it's just business as usual.

I think Electric cars are just fine for a "second vehicle" for the wife and kids if they are going to work/back or school/around town and they probably would be just fine for 95% of the driving most people do.

Having said that, until the technology catches up, these electric vehicles won't be the ones we take on vacation, or tow the boat to lake with, or use on any trip outside the city ......

Why do you assume this guy doesn't plug his Tesla in at work? Free power...of course he does.

[59whiskers]

Electric vehicles, like the Tesla work just fine in the cold temperatures. I have watched the hippy in our cul-de-sac drive his around like he always does - to work, back, and whatever he does. His other SUV sits there - so he obviously isn't having any issues - even if he parks it outside all day at work (presumably unplugged).

Based on what I read, there is certainly a range reduction as the battery needs to keep itself warm if it's left out overnight or not plugged in - but if he brings it home, and plugs it in (his garage is unheated I think) it's just business as usual.

I think Electric cars are just fine for a "second vehicle" for the wife and kids if they are going to work/back or school/around town and they probably would be just fine for 95% of the driving most people do.

Having said that, until the technology catches up, these electric vehicles won't be the ones we take on vacation, or tow the boat to lake with, or use on any trip outside the city ......

There is no way my daughter would take their electric car from Edmonton to Viking in -35 C for Christmas with 2 small kids, not a safe option. Finding charging stations in rural Alberta is a challenge. Gas engines are way more convenient.

[nelsonob1]

Personally, i would like to see Alberta take a national lead into nuclear and continue to export energy. I think the province is a leader in building infrastructure and well placed as a generation hub to export south, east and west.

[MyAlberta]

Personally, i would like to see Alberta take a national lead into nuclear and continue to export energy. I think the province is a leader in building infrastructure and well placed as a generation hub to export south, east and west.

Unfortunately, like oil, we are too far from markets. We should certainly be leaders in technology, and our oil economy sets us in a unique position to advance those technologies.

[nelsonob1]

Unfortunately, like oil, we are too far from markets. We should certainly be leaders in technology, and our oil economy sets us in a unique position to advance those technologies.

Electrical transmission is a lot more efficient and cheaper than oil and a north american grid already exists.

[Dick284]

^^^^^^ correct you are

https://i.imgur.com/ZSbWy02.png


The investment capital required to build any new generation is astronomical, and finding someone to invest that capital given the fruit loop’s that are in power nowadays isn’t conducive to anyone wanting to play ball here.

[Savage Bacon]

These charging stations seem to be working fine in the cold.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211230/dfad4f13e89fd08c66761b1d1e8fd952.jpg

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[EZM]

There is no way my daughter would take their electric car from Edmonton to Viking in -35 C for Christmas with 2 small kids, not a safe option. Finding charging stations in rural Alberta is a challenge. Gas engines are way more convenient.

We agree - that's why I was saying it makes good sense to use in the city only - and for most people - who don't drive more than 300-400km in a day to/from work to the grocery store or errands - it's probably just fine and makes perfect sense.

[nelsonob1]

Well they are going to have to be built somewhere cos wind and solar won't be enough. Maybe there is a political trade off for Albertan oil to Albertan nuclear.

[Trochu]

These charging stations seem to be working fine in the cold.

And those two trucks can charge up in only 3 or 4 minutes in this weather!

[tri777]

Road rage...the next incoming trend:
Electrical charge station rage.

[elkhunter11]

Well they are going to have to be built somewhere cos wind and solar won't be enough. Maybe there is a political trade off for Albertan oil to Albertan nuclear.

The problem is, that while most people realize that wind and solar power can't meet our present needs, let alone future needs, there are people, some with influence, that will fight any non green type of project, and make it difficult to get anything else built.

[urban rednek]

Some of you guys are either too young to know this, or, have really short memories.
Alberta doesn't have, and cannot buy, the social license required to build more hydroelectric or nuclear generation. We tried.
While the actual proposals might have required more work/better design, the other provinces actively lobbied against the proposals and the federal government refused to approve every project on environmental grounds.
You want to build a Candu nuclear generation in plant in the Peace? Solid No to both proposals from the federal government.
You want to build a hydro dam on the Peace River? The very same Peace River that BC has 2 dams on, and is looking at building a third? (this pre-dates the Site C dam by many years) Nope, that river is too environmentally sensitive in Alberta. It's only possible to build dams and make reservoirs in BC.

As for that great big taxpayer financed North-South transmission line that ends near Brooks? It was built to carry the excess generation from all the oilsands cogens to the South of the province where it was required. And, maybe export some on the woefully undersized BC and Saskatchewan tie-ins. IIRC There was talk of eventually extending it further south into the US, but at the time it would have required a new line all the way to Salt Lake City. That was first location with existing transmission lines capable of handling the power.

[tranq78]

I thought the solution to the elec grid problems is to simply declare a climate emergency.

New Calgary mayor just did that.

Virtue signally fixes everything in a snap. Once you understand how this sort of thing works you can fix anything.



Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[gunluvr]

Some of you guys are either too young to know this, or, have really short memories.
Alberta doesn't have, and cannot buy, the social license required to build more hydroelectric or nuclear generation. We tried.
While the actual proposals might have required more work/better design, the other provinces actively lobbied against the proposals and the federal government refused to approve every project on environmental grounds.
You want to build a Candu nuclear generation in plant in the Peace? Solid No to both proposals from the federal government.
You want to build a hydro dam on the Peace River? The very same Peace River that BC has 2 dams on, and is looking at building a third? (this pre-dates the Site C dam by many years) Nope, that river is too environmentally sensitive in Alberta. It's only possible to build dams and make reservoirs in BC.

As for that great big taxpayer financed North-South transmission line that ends near Brooks? It was built to carry the excess generation from all the oilsands cogens to the South of the province where it was required. And, maybe export some on the woefully undersized BC and Saskatchewan tie-ins. IIRC There was talk of eventually extending it further south into the US, but at the time it would have required a new line all the way to Salt Lake City. That was first location with existing transmission lines capable of handling the power.

And that line, which Alberta tax payers and rate payers paid for, still hasn't had a single amp pass through it in what, 5 years? It cost billions and helped raise transmission fees for every customer in Alberta.
Still want to try to build a nuclear plant in Alberta?

[dgl1948]

And those two trucks can charge up in only 3 or 4 minutes in this weather!

Ford isn’t offering us battery details because it has an upcoming battery announcement that is not yet fully developed. One clue might be the Lightning’s fast-charging specs. On a DC 150-kW charger, the smaller-battery version — with 110 to 130 kWh, estimates Forbes — take 44 minutes to charge to 80 per cent from 15, while the larger battery (150 to 180 kWh, says Forbes ) takes 41.

[fishead]

And that line, which Alberta tax payers and rate payers paid for, still hasn't had a single amp pass through it in what, 5 years? It cost billions and helped raise transmission fees for every customer in Alberta.
Still want to try to build a nuclear plant in Alberta?
Hey Gun, not true. Those lines have been in service for some time. The debate on the need is another story, the reality is the north south corridor in AB required reinforcement and the landowners clearly stated that they desired a one and done approach. The analogy could be like imagining the QE2 was never built or twinned.

[Mountain Guy]

Wonder if it had anything to do with every vehicle in Alberta being plugged in. :thinking-006:

Yes, and every furnace running , extra space heaters ,and xmas lights , turkeys in the oven , etc .. Peak system loads are usually hit around this time of year at supper time.

[tri777]

There is a business park not to far from me having approx 50 massive halogen lights (likely 1000Watts each)
lighting it up the night sky every night 7 days a week. Makes me wonder how many of these gluttonous usage
type parks are in AB as this blame game thing of finger pointing the poor consumer simply trying to stay
warm/functional while these type of businesses go on without a thought.

[outofbounds]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-canada.html&ved=2ahUKEwiQieTZ2431AhWAFjQIHabwDVoQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3aswtaE7aiKEXgsd1fUPuC

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.opg.com/powering-ontario/our-generation/&ved=2ahUKEwjdgaeI1o31AhWrGjQIHd7JB0wQFnoECDYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Jjfgrj6Z-k49Nz3MmjElr

A couple links, first one identifying energy production, energy transportation and trade, energy consumption and GHG emissions by province.
Inclusive of grid networks.
Each province individual profile is identified by click of link.

Second is OPG generating assets outlining each, inclusive of nukes, ongoing refurb for extended operating life of facilities.

A broad overview of energy production and transmission capacities by province.

[Savage Bacon]

There is a business park not to far from me having approx 50 massive halogen lights (likely 1000Watts each)

lighting it up the night sky every night 7 days a week. Makes me wonder how many of these gluttonous usage

type parks are in AB as this blame game thing of finger pointing the poor consumer simply trying to stay

warm/functional while these type of businesses go on without a thought.Different rules for different fools.



Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[Big Grey Wolf]

What are you telling me the 500KV line to Brooks is not even tied into the grid after we Albertans spent $millions building it. Some heads in the provincial guberment should roll to never allow them back in the legislature. If memory serves me well believe it was a Kleiken boon Doggle.

[Deezel]

There is a business park not to far from me having approx 50 massive halogen lights (likely 1000Watts each)
lighting it up the night sky every night 7 days a week. Makes me wonder how many of these gluttonous usage
type parks are in AB as this blame game thing of finger pointing the poor consumer simply trying to stay
warm/functional while these type of businesses go on without a thought.
I'd love to see lights like this getting shut down. It's a joke how many unnecessary lights Alberta has burning in this province. I would bet that Alberta wastes more money on unneeded lighting than any other province in Canada. The light domes over Edmonton and Calgary are ridiculous. We could probably easily shut off 50% of the lights and still have more than enough. IMO, there's absolutely no need for our province to be lit up like a Christmas tree.

Light pollution map from 2016;
https://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2016/NorthAmerica2016B.png

[Drewski Canuck]

If you want to save on light pollution, and electricity consumption, I have a CRAZY idea.

Since all of our street lights are always burning, even when there is no one there, ...

and lots of lights could be set up on a Motion Sensor system when there is no one around ...

how about just set up some motion sensors on street lights? You could easily determine the direction of motion to light up the lights say 150 meters ahead of the direction of motion?

In any event, it is easily done, and would shut down alot of wattage being used needlessly.

Happy New Year to All!

Drewski

[Trochu]

I would bet that Alberta wastes more money on unneeded lighting than any other province in Canada. The light domes over Edmonton and Calgary are ridiculous.

As cities, Calgary and Edmonton are pretty bad, as metro areas, Montreal and Toronto are 3rd and 5th worst, respectively, in the world. Seems like alot of skyscrapers are lit up at 3 in the morning, guess the janitor needs every light on....

[MyAlberta]

If you want to save on light pollution, and electricity consumption, I have a CRAZY idea.

Since all of our street lights are always burning, even when there is no one there, ...

and lots of lights could be set up on a Motion Sensor system when there is no one around ...

how about just set up some motion sensors on street lights? You could easily determine the direction of motion to light up the lights say 150 meters ahead of the direction of motion?

In any event, it is easily done, and would shut down alot of wattage being used needlessly.

Happy New Year to All!

Drewski

I’m thinking the on/off cycle would seriously shorten the life cycle of lamps. But if you carry crazy to new heights, we could carry lighting with us, like mounted on the front of the vehicle some how.

[6.5 shooter]

Electricity cuts should only apply to those who vote NDP, Liberal or for the Green party last election .... come on guys take one for the team!

[Mountain Guy]

If you want to save on light pollution, and electricity consumption, I have a CRAZY idea.

Since all of our street lights are always burning, even when there is no one there, ...

and lots of lights could be set up on a Motion Sensor system when there is no one around ...

how about just set up some motion sensors on street lights? You could easily determine the direction of motion to light up the lights say 150 meters ahead of the direction of motion?

In any event, it is easily done, and would shut down alot of wattage being used needlessly.

Happy New Year to All!

Drewski

I've been outta the game for a few years now but I believe that technology is already in place and I believe there are some in service already. Lloydminster?
Haven't heard how there working out..
When it comes to street lighting it is always a debate and balancing act between dark sky vs. adequate lighting.
Throw in the liabilities associated with lower lighting levels and it makes it a tough call to reduce lighting.
Many muni's have upgraded to LED and reduced standard 100W HPS down to 30-40W LED.

[elkhunter11]

Still vehicle and electricity related, there is a guy ranting on one of the pickup forums, that Ford never told him that the engine had to be running to use the optional 2kw generator that he ordered on his truck.

[Trochu]

Still vehicle and electricity related, there is a guy ranting on one of the pickup forums, that Ford never told him that the engine had to be running to use the optional 2kw generator that he ordered on his truck.

It would be pretty sweet if you could use a generator without the engine running!

[urban rednek]

Still vehicle and electricity related, there is a guy ranting on one of the pickup forums, that Ford never told him that the engine had to be running to use the optional 2kw generator that he ordered on his truck.
That is a level of fail that transcends brand loyalty.

[CanuckShooter]

And that line, which Alberta tax payers and rate payers paid for, still hasn't had a single amp pass through it in what, 5 years? It cost billions and helped raise transmission fees for every customer in Alberta.
Still want to try to build a nuclear plant in Alberta?

They are building nuclear plants in Ontario...so why not in Alberta?

[Sundancefisher]

They are building nuclear plants in Ontario...so why not in Alberta?

They need to poll which areas believe most in global warming and the disruption of the oil and gas industry. Then build the nuclear plants beside them.

[elkhunter11]

They are building nuclear plants in Ontario...so why not in Alberta?

Do you think that Trudeau would allow a cement plant like the one they built in Quebec, to be built in Alberta?

[dgl1948]

They need to poll which areas believe most in global warming and the disruption of the oil and gas industry. Then build the nuclear plants beside them.

Germany is taking all their nuclear plants out of production. They are going to natural gas until they can meet demand with renewables.

[flyrodfisher]

Germany is taking all their nuclear plants out of production. They are going to natural gas until they can meet demand with renewables.

Actually...the truth is that Germany has been a net exporter of power until 2019.
Yes..they are in the process of decommissioning their remaining nuclear plants

In the meantime, they are importing power from France.....France by the way produces about 71% of its power from nuclear.

Do the Germans really think an incident at a French nuclear facility will not affect them?:thinking-006:

[Mr Flyguy]

They are building nuclear plants in Ontario...so why not in Alberta?

The nuclear power plants on Ontario have been operating for some time. There are NO new power plants being built anywhere in Canada..yet.

[Deezel]

The nuclear power plants on Ontario have been operating for some time. There are NO new power plants being built anywhere in Canada..yet.
Darlington generating site in Ontario will be building a new one starting in 2022.

December 2, 2021
Clarington, ON – Today, Ontario Power Generation (OPG) is announcing it will work together with GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy to deploy a Small Modular Reactor (SMR) at the Darlington new nuclear site, the only site in Canada currently licensed for a new nuclear build. Leveraging a strong Ontario-based supply chain, this clean energy project will create jobs across the province and cement Durham Region’s position as the clean energy capital of Ontario.
OPG and GE Hitachi will collaborate on the SMR engineering, design, planning, preparing the licencing and permitting materials, and performing site preparation activities, with the mutual goal of constructing Canada’s first commercial, grid-scale SMR, projected to be completed as early as 2028.

[dgl1948]

Actually...the truth is that Germany has been a net exporter of power until 2019.
Yes..they are in the process of decommissioning their remaining nuclear plants

In the meantime, they are importing power from France.....France by the way produces about 71% of its power from nuclear.

Do the Germans really think an incident at a French nuclear facility will not affect them?:thinking-006:

Germany will have to build about 20-30 gigawatt (GW) of new gas-fired power plant capacity to ensure supply security as the country exits nuclear and coal power, RWE CEO Markus Krebber told WirtschaftsWoche. “We still underestimate how many new gas-fired power plants we need in Germany,” he said. “At the moment, our security of supply is based entirely on nuclear energy, lignite and hard coal. We have few gas plants. But nuclear energy and coal must be completely replaced in order to establish security of supply.” He said fossil gas can only be a bridge to a decarbonised electricity supply and Germany needed a strategy for the transition to green hydrogen.

[Puma]

... to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.[/QUOTE]

And who is going to pay for this new infrastructure? You realize we are pretty much talking about everything downstream from a substation ? Including your home electrical infrastructure?

You think your wireline and transmission costs are high now ?

[flyrodfisher]

Germany will have to build about 20-30 gigawatt (GW) of new gas-fired power plant capacity to ensure supply security as the country exits nuclear and coal power, RWE CEO Markus Krebber told WirtschaftsWoche. “We still underestimate how many new gas-fired power plants we need in Germany,” he said. “At the moment, our security of supply is based entirely on nuclear energy, lignite and hard coal. We have few gas plants. But nuclear energy and coal must be completely replaced in order to establish security of supply.” He said fossil gas can only be a bridge to a decarbonised electricity supply and Germany needed a strategy for the transition to green hydrogen.

That's great.... but what Markus Krebber did not say is that his country currently imports nuclear power from France.
He is a green Hydrogen pusher...because his company benefits from the incredible green taxes put on electricity in Germany.


From his own words in the link below;

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/rwe-lays-out-plans-to-invest-billions-in-renewables.html
"Krebber’s comments came as RWE laid out plans for the next decade that will be backed by a gross investment of 50 billion euros ($56.73 billion) in its core business between 2021 and 2030.

In an announcement Monday, the firm said this would mean “an average of 5 billion euro gross each year for offshore and onshore wind, solar, batteries, flexible generation and hydrogen.”

Also note that;
"Electricity prices in Germany ranked amongst highest globally"

https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/electricity-prices-germany-ranked-amongst-highest-globally

"So why are electricity prices in Germany so high? Experts suggest that the significant rise in energy prices over the last 20 years is largely down to an increase in taxes and surcharges. The controversial EEG surcharge, the charge levied on private households to finance Germany’s investment in renewable resources, is a shining example of this."


Regardless, to think you are avoiding the potential problems of a nuclear incident by closing your plants and then importing nuclear power from plants a mere few hundred kilometers away in France...is frankly, lunacy.

[6.5 shooter]

... to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.

And who is going to pay for this new infrastructure? You realize we are pretty much talking about everything downstream from a substation ? Including your home electrical infrastructure?

You think your wireline and transmission costs are high now ?[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the time lag .... 10 to 15 years to construct the project and with all the enviro etc. hops to jump through, it is more like 20-25 years down the road.

Private corps will not build it, so your TAX dollars will.

[6.5 shooter]

... to become more common place we will do as a province what we did for literally EVERY OTHER PEICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE. We will scale it up when and if needed. It is not that hard to figure out. I'm not saying it will be easy. But to state the obvious that electric cars will overload the grid if we all had them today, I just don't understand. Everyone already knows that. You minus well just tell everyone the sky is blue or water is wet.

"And who is going to pay for this new infrastructure? You realize we are pretty much talking about everything downstream from a substation ? Including your home electrical infrastructure?

You think your wireline and transmission costs are high now ?[/QUOTE]"

Not to mention the time lag .... 10 to 15 years to construct the project and with all the enviro etc. hops to jump through, it is more like 20-25 years down the road.

Private corps will not build it, so your TAX dollars will.