Furnace issues

[jungleboy]

My daughter and husband has been having issues with their furnace this cold snap. Today they had a furnace guy come for a look and there is a litany of issues stemming from its incorrect installation (according to the furnace repairman) . Water has been pooling in the bottom of the furnace which affected a pressure switch. C02 leaking into the house and they said if not for the drafty windows in the basement they said it could have been fatal. They have detectors in the house as well but they didn’t go off.
He said the furnace was installed out of level and can’t be fixed without un installing and re installing the thing . He also said the water damage is bad enough that the furnace is not likely to go another 2 years . He fixed it as much as possible to get them by but my daughter is pretty worried with a 1 yr old and a 6 year old in the house.

It was installed about 8 years ago and has an inspection sticker from city of Edmonton on it

What started the whole thing was they could not get the house to warm more than 18c and the furnace couldn’t keep up. They have been in the house about 3 yrs and now are looking at a new furnace.

[KGB]

I would be sceptical to some random furnace repair company. Had one very well known company coming to look at my AC last year and the tech outright told me that I need new AC and made a call to the dispatch to book me a sales guy.
Called the other guy who came highly recommended by a few friends in our community and he tells me he can fix it, it’s a common problem and it will last me another 10 years. Fixed it and it’s been great ever since.
Call Sheni @ STM COOLING AND HEATING @587-501-9655.
You will thank me later, lol!

[thunder_sticks]

Skeptical......being a plumber for 35 plus years I can categorically say I have NEVER had to tell someone that their furnace wasn't working because it was "unlevel". Even in a crawl space with a high efficiency unit that is mounted horizontally, the installer would have had to been a barely trained chimpanzee to get it installed THAT BADLY for the condensate drainage system to not work properly. It would have to be stunningly bad actually. I HAVE replaced several very poorly installed and even backgraded by several inches condensate drainage systems over the years though. Some that were even somehow connected to the wrong connectors on the furnace altogether.

The sheer FAIL in the trades bothers me to no end. The pass mark should be 95% and no less for the whole shot. Who wants a tradesman that averaged 75% over 4 years......that's missing and entire year of something along the way.

Is perhaps a way you can share a few photos of the install and a bit more about what the actual symptoms of the failure were before the so-called repair? Maybe myself or another tradesman here can offer some advice to hopefully keep your family safe from CO2 harm and safe from fear mongering thieves as well......

[tri777]

"..He said the furnace was installed out of level and can’t be fixed without un installing and re installing the thing . He also said the water damage is bad enough that the furnace is not likely to go another 2 years . He fixed it as much as possible to get them by but my daughter is pretty worried with a 1 yr old and a 6 year old in the house.."

What a massive pile'O'crap, someone just wants some work or something and is using fear as the seller, get a
2nd opinion immediately. I had a furnace service tech come out and say mine was dangerously set up/much
as the same lingo posted above. I still have the same furnace and this happened around 1990 somewhere.

[no-regard]

The sheer FAIL in the trades bothers me to no end. The pass mark should be 95% and no less for the whole shot. Who wants a tradesman that averaged 75% over 4 years......that's missing and entire year of something along the way.


It's only going to get worse now that apprentices no longer need to write a provincial exam. The school mark decides pass/fail now, at least the provincial exam used to weed out some of the weaker students and get them back into school for a second round if needed.

[jungleboy]

We are going to have a second assessment done on this by a fellow I know in the trade before any decisions are made.

[Dean2]

My daughter and husband has been having issues with their furnace this cold snap. Today they had a furnace guy come for a look and there is a litany of issues stemming from its incorrect installation (according to the furnace repairman) . Water has been pooling in the bottom of the furnace which affected a pressure switch. C02 leaking into the house and they said if not for the drafty windows in the basement they said it could have been fatal. They have detectors in the house as well but they didn’t go off.
He said the furnace was installed out of level and can’t be fixed without un installing and re installing the thing . He also said the water damage is bad enough that the furnace is not likely to go another 2 years . He fixed it as much as possible to get them by but my daughter is pretty worried with a 1 yr old and a 6 year old in the house.

It was installed about 8 years ago and has an inspection sticker from city of Edmonton on it

What started the whole thing was they could not get the house to warm more than 18c and the furnace couldn’t keep up. They have been in the house about 3 yrs and now are looking at a new furnace.

Like the other said; Pure and unadulterated Bull excrement. Call Kent at Do It right Heating and AC. Tell him Dean referred you. He will come out same day and fix it. He doesn't even charge extra for short notice call out. 780-699-9071

[CaberTosser]

The assessment given does sound dubious. I have seen condensing furnaces that had condensate draining issues where the condensate trap itself was plugged with gunk, a result of the furnace ingesting dusty air from outside and accumulating into a very viscous mud in the trap. I have seen condensate build up to the point where the draft inducer fan was running slow due to the blower wheel having to imitate a Mississippi paddle-wheeler, a few of them still ran like this, though with reduced heat output. Definitely have the condensate trap (and various condensate tubing) checked and either cleaned very well or replaced.

Condensate leaks look bad inside a furnace as condensate is mildly acidic and makes parts of the furnace case rust fast. The inside of the heat exchanger however is built of rust resistant material, almost exclusively stainless steel (at least one old model had a plastic lining in its heat exchanger, which was problematic)

[silvertip]

We are going to have a second assessment done on this by a fellow I know in the trade before any decisions are made.

We had furnace issues a couple times

called ATCO, set things straight as in what's up

no charge , still had to have it repaired by a furnace tech but at least I was more educated on the issue , I hate BS ers

[dewalt18]

We had furnace issues a couple times

called ATCO, set things straight as in what's up

no charge , still had to have it repaired by a furnace tech but at least I was more educated on the issue , I hate BS ers

I’ve never understood the calling atco thing. To me it’s like calling a petro Canada station if my truck breaks down.

But on that note, to the OP, deffinitely get a second, or even third opinion

[ghfalls]

If there is a co2 leak or slight gas odour atco will come out. It’s part of the service they provide. 24/7.

[Dean2]

If there is a co2 leak or slight gas odour atco will come out. It’s part of the service they provide. 24/7.

Having ATCO check for gas leaks, CO2 or CO is fine and they do that well. Never let them work on anything. Just shut off the offending appliance and the gas feed to it. Get a proper tech. ATCO guys don't take responsibility for anything they screw up. Cost me about a grand to fix a mess their guy made about 6 years ago when he tried to tighten the gas connection to the hot water heater. Completely messed up the thermostat it goes into.

[Jayhad]

Jungleboy, about 8 years ago I started having furnace issues. I had four quotes done, first two were in and out in minutes and told me the only solution was new a furnace.

Next told me I need a new thermocouple and forth guy told me it was a gas issue and nothing was wrong with my furnace except it was dirty due to the "bad gas."

Last guy was right and was the least cost.

I think most furnace guys stink and what to steal from you.

I have now basically rebuilt my furnace personally and won't call a furnace guy until I need a complete replacement. I don't touch the gas however, aside from shutting the valve.

As for your problem from what you said, the furnace runs, just can't keep up. Has it tripped any error signals?
There should be a little window, where you can see a LED. On the furnace should be a legend on how to read the flashes.
If everything is good it could be an air flow issue, have them feel the vents when the furnace is running, if its not pumping out, it could be the fan, filter or the exhaust has frozen shut..... i'm not a furnace guy.
Good luck.

[jungleboy]

Jungleboy, about 8 years ago I started having furnace issues. I had four quotes done, first two were in and out in minutes and told me the only solution was new a furnace.

Next told me I need a new thermocouple and forth guy told me it was a gas issue and nothing was wrong with my furnace except it was dirty due to the "bad gas."

Last guy was right and was the least cost.

I think most furnace guys stink and what to steal from you.

I have now basically rebuilt my furnace personally and won't call a furnace guy until I need a complete replacement. I don't touch the gas however, aside from shutting the valve.

As for your problem from what you said, the furnace runs, just can't keep up. Has it tripped any error signals?
There should be a little window, where you can see a LED. On the furnace should be a legend on how to read the flashes.
If everything is good it could be an air flow issue, have them feel the vents when the furnace is running, if its not pumping out, it could be the fan, filter or the exhaust has frozen shut..... i'm not a furnace guy.
Good luck.


The furnace was throwing codes and the guy that said it was going to need to be replaced, sorted out the immediate issues so it is working now .

I have a guy going to look at the unit tomorrow. He is a top notch furnace guy and a friend.(dead honest) So I will report back when I hear from him.

[jungleboy]

My daughter called me today to tell me that my guy showed up today to look at their furnace and said everything is in good shape..
He said he did not see any evidence of damage due to water. the furnace was installed correctly and everything was in order.
He said the guy did do the repairs that he billed for but as far as the furnace being on its last legs it was a very exaggerated assessment.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and information.

[Dean2]

My daughter called me today to tell me that my guy showed up today to look at their furnace and said everything is in good shape..
He said he did not see any evidence of damage due to water. the furnace was installed correctly and everything was in order.
He said the guy did do the repairs that he billed for but as far as the furnace being on its last legs it was a very exaggerated assessment.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and information.

Excellent. Are they now getting enough heat. Like I said on another thread, it really is a shame that you can no longer trust 70 percent of the people you try to do business with. It has got to the point that if u don't know near as much as the tech, or have someone you know for sure is honest, u are going to get done over. The days of the quick buck are here, long term relationships mean little to many businesses.

[urban rednek]

What repair was done to solve the initial problem of not enough heat?
And, is anything going to be done about the attempted fraud by the first repairman? This is no different than any tradesperson lying to an unsuspecting customer in order to get paid to perform work that is not required.:angry3:

[Fish along]

My daughter called me today to tell me that my guy showed up today to look at their furnace and said everything is in good shape..
He said he did not see any evidence of damage due to water. the furnace was installed correctly and everything was in order.
He said the guy did do the repairs that he billed for but as far as the furnace being on its last legs it was a very exaggerated assessment.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and information.

Thats some good news,nothing worse especially when its cold like this,:)

[jungleboy]

What repair was done to solve the initial problem of not enough heat?
And, is anything going to be done about the attempted fraud by the first repairman? This is no different than any tradesperson lying to an unsuspecting customer in order to get paid to perform work that is not required.:angry3:

I believe he replaced a pressure switch and I can’t recall what else.

[Dynamic]

I absolutely detest these pressure switches inside furnaces. I have had to replace mine several times now. Had the paddle wheel inducer motor situation going on. Techs would come and fix the symptom but never explore the root cause. From what I was told you do have to be mindful of how level the furnaces so everything drains and doesn't get backed up.

Eventually my furnace was figured out. In the installation manual it did mention specifically to shim the furnace if drainage issues were suspected. Since I was out of town I always had a high pressure switch on hand for a quick change out if needed. I have since moved from that house so I am not sure how it is doing now, but just my experience with these high pressure switches and my drainage issues.

[EZM]

My daughter called me today to tell me that my guy showed up today to look at their furnace and said everything is in good shape..
He said he did not see any evidence of damage due to water. the furnace was installed correctly and everything was in order.
He said the guy did do the repairs that he billed for but as far as the furnace being on its last legs it was a very exaggerated assessment.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and information.

The initial inspection from the first furnace guy is CRIMINAL FRAUD.

Saying you need a complete replacement, and that your Co2 levels are fatal trying to convince your daughter she needs to take immediate action is unbelievable. And to even suggest the existing Co2 detectors are not detecting this fatal level of Co2 is a joke. That is a SERIOUS accusation and nothing more than an attempt to have people take immediate and desperate action out of fear.

I'd suggest you post the contractor's name on here - so other people do not fall victim to this criminal fraud.

Personally, I'd call him back just to confront him.

I'd also report him.

No different than someone stealing your car, breaking into your house, or stealing money from your bank. These individuals need to be prosecuted and jailed.

[DirtShooter]

Sounds like when a woman takes their car to a dealership for servicing. The next thing you know they're handing her a stack of estimates into the thousands when all she wanted was an oil change.

[jef612]

I have seen a couple of installs where the furnace wasn't level, the secondary did not drain properly and then plugged with filth. Not a great design - but I have witnessed this twice in my short career :) Plugged heat exchangers are no fun - and can be deadly. That's why the pressure switches are there to prevent the furnace from filling the house with carbon monoxide. they are a safety mechanism. If something fails with those switches / and or the board there is a very real possibility of a deadly situation. Slim chance IMO - but there is risk there.

There are a couple on here that are quick to hang the first company without any knowledge of the situation at all - let alone furnace installations specifically and even the specific installation instructions for this particular model. Take their opinions for what they are worth :) I didn't see the furnace and really can't comment on your specific situation

Shopping for opinions until you get the one you want doesn't particularly make sense to me either? Call the people you trust, and trust the people you call. If you suspect something is up - get a second opinion. Never hurts anything except the pocketbook!

Glad you got it figured out in the end. We have been dealing with a couple of CO issues here in my town and I really hate to see someone take bad advice and have their family not wake up due to advice from some crass ******* on the internet. Better safe than sorry - every time!

[Dean2]

I have seen a couple of installs where the furnace wasn't level, the secondary did not drain properly and then plugged with filth. Not a great design - but I have witnessed this twice in my short career :) Plugged heat exchangers are no fun - and can be deadly. That's why the pressure switches are there to prevent the furnace from filling the house with carbon monoxide. they are a safety mechanism. If something fails with those switches / and or the board there is a very real possibility of a deadly situation. Slim chance IMO - but there is risk there.

There are a couple on here that are quick to hang the first company without any knowledge of the situation at all - let alone furnace installations specifically and even the specific installation instructions for this particular model. Take their opinions for what they are worth :) I didn't see the furnace and really can't comment on your specific situation

Shopping for opinions until you get the one you want doesn't particularly make sense to me either? Call the people you trust, and trust the people you call. If you suspect something is up - get a second opinion. Never hurts anything except the pocketbook!

Glad you got it figured out in the end. We have been dealing with a couple of CO issues here in my town and I really hate to see someone take bad advice and have their family not wake up due to advice from some crass ******* on the internet. Better safe than sorry - every time!

You are entitled to your opinion but note this, a good friend of Jungleboy's, and someone he trusts who is an expert in the field completely contradicted the first guy. I have personally seen more than enough of these high pressure scams the last few years to know they are intentional, not a mistake or difference of opinion, and an attempt to steal from clients by doing work that isn't needed. Often they charge and don't even do the work recommended.

You may not be like that, but the appliance industry, car repairs, roofing and home renovations and quite a few others are infested with fast talking shysters that need to be charged with attempted criminal fraud.

[badbrass]

You are entitled to your option but note this, a good friend of Jungleboy's, and someone he trusts who is an expert in the field completely contradicted the first guy. I have personally seen more than enough of these high pressure scams the last few years to know they are intentional, not a mistake or difference of opinion, and an attempt to steal from clients by doing work that isn't needed. Often they charge and don't even do the work recommended.

You may not be like that, but the appliance industry, car repairs, roofing and home renovations and quite a few others are infested with fast talking shysters that need to be charged with attempted criminal fraud.

I totally agree! My son bought a house a couple years ago! The inspection was done for the bank and was given the 3 thumbs up! He had a lot of renovation's done up stairs! After that was done he thought it would be a good idea to have the vents and furnaces cleaned. When the company came to do the cleaning, the owner came up and said he would not even consider cleaning the furnace's as they were junk! We said they were just checked for the inspection and were given all OK! He said they were junk and showed us! On opening the front panel you could see the rust on the burners and the body! Cost him $10,000 for two furnaces! BS is what I call it also! Just not right! It's WHO you know!

[jef612]

You are entitled to your opinion but note this, a good friend of Jungleboy's, and someone he trusts who is an expert in the field completely contradicted the first guy. I have personally seen more than enough of these high pressure scams the last few years to know they are intentional, not a mistake or difference of opinion, and an attempt to steal from clients by doing work that isn't needed. Often they charge and don't even do the work recommended.

You may not be like that, but the appliance industry, car repairs, roofing and home renovations and quite a few others are infested with fast talking shysters that need to be charged with attempted criminal fraud.

100% agree. We have the high pressure sales guys here too. It’s very tough for the average homeowner to navigate these waters, and unfortunately some companies will prey on that.

That being said - we can’t just discard his report as false without a second opinion from someone with a working knowledge of what they are looking at. I also cautioned against searching for a company to tell you that the furnace is ok when it really isn’t, as you are no better off in that situation either. Looks like the OP did just that, called in an expert and he worked it all out.

Good help isn’t cheap - and cheap help usually isn’t good :)