Nat Gas generator today- 01/05/22 -35

[Ken07AOVette]

the power kicked, and the generator cranked 3 cycles before timing out. I went out and reset it, tried manually, no go. I do have synthetic in it. The power came back on in a minute, but it could have been hours in this weather.

I took my little 'garage warm' 2000w honda and a little 110v heater, stuck it in the backup gen case for 20 minutes. Fired up 2 cranks.

I just drilled a hole through the wall from the furnace room to the generator, am running a power cord so I can plug in the 500w stick-on oil pan heater I bought half a dozen years ago (stupid) and forgot to install. If that fails, I know the little honda and a heater will make it go.

Why don't we do things like this in summer when it is nice??????? :angry3:

Only thing I will have to do at some point is install an actual inside/outside receptacle, and wire it into the breaker panel instead of a wall plug.

Edit- just found out why I didn't install it. It needs a flat smooth surface, no lips or humps. This generator dies not have any point like that.

I just left the tiny little heater in there, I'm good to go now. I'm going to see if I can find a oil filter heater, and some reviews to see if they work.

[traderal]

Same thing here. I have a nat gas 12k standby, dual cyl B&S motor with 5/20 syn oil. Battery is charged but motor is too cold to start. I do have a 10k Champion in the garage I can wheel out and start to at least run the furnace but would still take an hour to disconnect furnace wire, etc. Nothing like the good old days where we just throw more logs or coal into the stove. I don't miss going to the outdoor toilet at -33.

[Ken07AOVette]

It looks like the oil filter heater is a bust, not finding anything other than the Generac cold weather kit for $400 which comes with the same little silicone heat pad I have and a battery blanket. It's too bad there is nowhere to put the silicone pad, 500w is barely noticeable.

I am thinking of wrapping the oil filter in metal duct tape, applying the heating pad to it. I see there is a tiny oil cooler rad, I could if necessary make some sort of transfer block before or after it and install the head pad there.

The little heater really worked fast Traderal, I bet in 10-15mins it would have fired up, maybe less.

[leeelmer]

Hi Ken
Is your gen liquid cooled?
If so there are a bunch of options.
One is a bottom rad hose heater, you basically cut the bottom rad hose and install.
Or a frost plug heater, you just need to know the size of one of the frost plugs and you drain the coolant and install.
If oil cooled only, then you might have a bit of a time to put it on, finding a flat spot on the oil pan can be tricky, but some do have a small flat spot, but it is a terrible place to find(and then get too)

[Husty]

Hi Ken
Is your gen liquid cooled?
If so there are a bunch of options.
One is a bottom rad hose heater, you basically cut the bottom rad hose and install.
Or a frost plug heater, you just need to know the size of one of the frost plugs and you drain the coolant and install.
If oil cooled only, then you might have a bit of a time to put it on, finding a flat spot on the oil pan can be tricky, but some do have a small flat spot, but it is a terrible place to find(and then get too)

I was going to say Wabastos, which is what Lee basically suggested with a rad hose heater but no Diesel needed.

[Ken07AOVette]

Power is off here.

My generator fired up instantly. Woohoo!

Sorry no, it is air cooled.

I guess I will buy a battery blanket and wrap the oil filter, or just keep the little heater in there. It works. If it costs $10 to run for a few days when super cold, so be it.

[lund17]

What about a magnetic engine heater?

My dad got one from princess auto and attached it to the hydraulic filter with a hose clamp for his gas powered wood splitter. Works great in winter for heating up the oil to get things running quicker. Just have to remember to unplug it once you get going.

[Ken07AOVette]

What about a magnetic engine heater?

My dad got one from princess auto and attached it to the hydraulic filter with a hose clamp for his gas powered wood splitter. Works great in winter for heating up the oil to get things running quicker. Just have to remember to unplug it once you get going.

https://i.postimg.cc/sXjySCHv/honeywell2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

It looks like a filter heater is the only option, unless maybe a guy could go inline with the oil cooler. It is a tiny rad, maybe 4" sq by 5/8" thick

[Sledhead71]

Could you use heat tape/cable on the filter assy., or somewhere else to keep the chill off enough to fire when needed ? Simple if it would work.

[Ken07AOVette]

Could you use heat tape/cable on the filter assy., or somewhere else to keep the chill off enough to fire when needed ? Simple if it would work.

I was thinking the same thing exactly, not sure.

I am still trying to find a way to make a removeable oil filter heater, might have to fire up the lathe and just make something out of aluminum. Slide it over the filter with the heat tape wrapped around the aluminum can.

And thinking about that more- aluminum dissipates heat so fast, that wont work. It will have to be steel. crapola.

[Albertadiver]

Problem solved!



:scared0018:

[traderal]

I use the heat pads on my compact tractors and I'm not too impressed. An inline heater in the lower rad hose has worked best but you need a coolant system. Unfortunately I probably won't have something plugged in heating the motor oil as power disruptions are few. So Ken using your idea of plugging in a heater to a small genset is probably a way to go. Have to use a motor to start a motor to start another motor, lol.
The best is to have a Kubota genset in a heated pump shack like my friend has but then he runs an inn on a farm.

[jkruse]

Serch for Temro 340-0014 doesn't have to be mounted tight to your oil pan just close but may want heat shield on opposite side. Not sure but you might find a oil pan immersion heater that would fit oil drain plug?

[Howard Hutchinson]

Maybe its a good thing the power didn't go down for us here based on the challenges you folks have had with your gensets. This one exercises once a week on its own but I don't recall hearing it lately...

[Ken07AOVette]

Maybe its a good thing the power didn't go down for us here based on the challenges you folks have had with your gensets. This one exercises once a week on its own but I don't recall hearing it lately...

Power here used to be horrible. We were without for 27 hours one time and it went down often. Mine runs every 2 weeks for a few minutes. I check for the green light quite often.
Last night when I finished plowing my yard I cut a oath around the house to the generator just for that reason.

[Howard Hutchinson]

Power here used to be horrible. We were without for 27 hours one time and it went down often. Mine runs every 2 weeks for a few minutes. I check for the green light quite often.
Last night when I finished plowing my yard I cut a oath around the house to the generator just for that reason.
>>
We keep a path to it too, albeit our first year with it so I am very green. I'm going to have to wrestle myself back to it in the morning to check &/or read the manual. I should be able to start it manually via a push button, no?

[Ken07AOVette]

Yes on the control panel there it should have 3 buttons, auto stop manual

Press manual to start and stop to shut down, then back to auto

[Howard Hutchinson]

Got it. Just talked to my guy and yes, start it manually or shut the breaker off at the panel and see if it fires. Thank you for the help.

[amosfella]

the power kicked, and the generator cranked 3 cycles before timing out. I went out and reset it, tried manually, no go. I do have synthetic in it. The power came back on in a minute, but it could have been hours in this weather.

I took my little 'garage warm' 2000w honda and a little 110v heater, stuck it in the backup gen case for 20 minutes. Fired up 2 cranks.

I just drilled a hole through the wall from the furnace room to the generator, am running a power cord so I can plug in the 500w stick-on oil pan heater I bought half a dozen years ago (stupid) and forgot to install. If that fails, I know the little honda and a heater will make it go.

Why don't we do things like this in summer when it is nice??????? :angry3:

Only thing I will have to do at some point is install an actual inside/outside receptacle, and wire it into the breaker panel instead of a wall plug.

Edit- just found out why I didn't install it. It needs a flat smooth surface, no lips or humps. This generator dies not have any point like that.

I just left the tiny little heater in there, I'm good to go now. I'm going to see if I can find a oil filter heater, and some reviews to see if they work.

Well, it would work if it was nice as you already demonstrated. You needed the cold to show you the problem.

Try 0w30 or 0w40 in your gen set for the winter. It'll help a lot. 5Wxx oil gets really sticky below -30c iirc. 0W oil is good for below -40. I got 0W40 in my car, and after sitting 2 weeks fired right up in -35c with a quick touch of the key. I have never plugged that car in, and it sits outside, right in the wind.

Dad's duramax was starting with 5 bad glow plugs in the high -20s without being plugged in with 0w40 in it as well. He used to insist he had to use 15W40 in it, and could never get the truck to start without time with a torch and pipe below -20. 0W40 oil changed winter life on the farm as we know it.

[nimrod]

Im in the country I do have a generator here, I need to disconnect the power line before I power up my generator here, I did have a auto transfer switch here but I can't use that as per the power company does not want power to the lines

[Howard Hutchinson]

Im in the country I do have a generator here, I need to disconnect the power line before I power up my generator here, I did have a auto transfer switch here but I can't use that as per the power company does not want power to the lines
>>
This is odd, isn't it? This is supposed to be part and parcel of the whole genset idea. So when your power goes out, you have to disconnect and monitor when the grid goes back up. Switching it back?

[Ken07AOVette]

Well, it would work if it was nice as you already demonstrated. You needed the cold to show you the problem.

Try 0w30 or 0w40 in your gen set for the winter. It'll help a lot. 5Wxx oil gets really sticky below -30c iirc. 0W oil is good for below -40. I got 0W40 in my car, and after sitting 2 weeks fired right up in -35c with a quick touch of the key. I have never plugged that car in, and it sits outside, right in the wind.

Dad's duramax was starting with 5 bad glow plugs in the high -20s without being plugged in with 0w40 in it as well. He used to insist he had to use 15W40 in it, and could never get the truck to start without time with a torch and pipe below -20. 0W40 oil changed winter life on the farm as we know it.

I'm running synthetic. If iirc it doesn't fire as quick as a gasoline engine because nat gas doesn't have the 'bang' gasoline does. I could be wrong but there is a breather heater that helps nat gas fired engines.

[HyperMOA]

Ken are you using a 0 weight oil? If you are using 5w30 move to 0w30. It makes a huge difference on cold starting. Just the parasitic load of cold oil in a pump takes a lot of rpm out of a starter.

[amosfella]

I'm running synthetic. If iirc it doesn't fire as quick as a gasoline engine because nat gas doesn't have the 'bang' gasoline does. I could be wrong but there is a breather heater that helps nat gas fired engines.

synthetic comes in all different weights. The first number is the temp range that the oil is meant to run in. 0W is the lowest that I know of.

[Ken07AOVette]

synthetic comes in all different weights. The first number is the temp range that the oil is meant to run in. 0W is the lowest that I know of.

I'm sure it's 5w30 have to check tomorrow

[HyperMOA]

Well, it would work if it was nice as you already demonstrated. You needed the cold to show you the problem.

Try 0w30 or 0w40 in your gen set for the winter. It'll help a lot. 5Wxx oil gets really sticky below -30c iirc. 0W oil is good for below -40. I got 0W40 in my car, and after sitting 2 weeks fired right up in -35c with a quick touch of the key. I have never plugged that car in, and it sits outside, right in the wind.

Dad's duramax was starting with 5 bad glow plugs in the high -20s without being plugged in with 0w40 in it as well. He used to insist he had to use 15W40 in it, and could never get the truck to start without time with a torch and pipe below -20. 0W40 oil changed winter life on the farm as we know it.

I replied with the same advice before I saw it was already mentioned. I guess I should read through before I butt-in. 😀

I agree though, I’m almost 100% certain that a 0w will solve this issue.

[Ken07AOVette]

Had to go look lol. 0w30 synthetic.

I think it's because it is nat gas.

[RandyBoBandy]

0W20 is very available :)

[HyperMOA]

Had to go look lol. 0w30 synthetic.

I think it's because it is nat gas.

Well there you go making me look the fool.

When it cranks is it cranking fast? Refitting a bigger battery, is it possible?

Where is the gas injected? Is an intake heater possible?

[Ken07AOVette]

Cranks over just fine, just took a few degrees warmer to fire up

[Ken07AOVette]

Well there you go making me look the fool.

When it cranks is it cranking fast? Refitting a bigger battery, is it possible?

Where is the gas injected? Is an intake heater possible?

I did find an intake heater mentioned.

Generac has intake, oil filter and battery warmer kits

[Rancid Crabtree]

Depending on how well sealed up the engine cabinet is it might work to mount a 100 watt light bulb inside by the engine.
Likely cost less than a heater to run on standby.

[Ken07AOVette]

Depending on how well sealed up the engine cabinet is it might work to mount a 100 watt light bulb inside by the engine.
Likely cost less than a heater to run on standby.

It's not. It's ventilated well.

The heater was one I forgot about 20 years ago, just found it in a shed. Just a little car heater to keep vehicle from being frigid.

[amosfella]

I did find an intake heater mentioned.

Generac has intake, oil filter and battery warmer kits

What size of battery is in it? I have a 9300W generator that takes a group 78 battery. It fires every time. Unless the starting relay fries. Some of these bigger gen sets have tiny batteries.

[nimrod]

>>

So when your power goes out, you have to disconnect and monitor when the grid goes back up. Switching it back?

correct thats what I need to do

[Ken07AOVette]

What size of battery is in it? I have a 9300W generator that takes a group 78 battery. It fires every time. Unless the starting relay fries. Some of these bigger gen sets have tiny batteries.

I think it's a group 30..it has been in it for a while, but again it was cranking over full speed.

[HyperMOA]

I think it's a group 30..it has been in it for a while, but again it was cranking over full speed.

It may be worth throwing a voltmeter on it and seeing it crank. It should be able to crank at above 10V for 30 seconds minimum. If it dips into 9.99V or lower in 30 seconds it is too small or has lost too much energy. That is of course with a charged battery, not a dead or run-down battery.

[Ken07AOVette]

It may be worth throwing a voltmeter on it and seeing it crank. It should be able to crank at above 10V for 30 seconds minimum. If it dips into 9.99V or lower in 30 seconds it is too small or has lost too much energy. That is of course with a charged battery, not a dead or run-down battery.

I appreciate the help.
A mechanic today said at -35 most batteries will only put out ~35% of their rated capacity. I will likely bring the battery into the garage and check it on my snap-on voa

[Howard Hutchinson]

correct thats what I need to do
>>
I wonder why it's different in your county vs Parkland. Had permit pulled and after the installation and commission, we were good to go. This is without having to go through what you do. Just curious why or how it differs.

[NCC]

I'm running synthetic. If iirc it doesn't fire as quick as a gasoline engine because nat gas doesn't have the 'bang' gasoline does. I could be wrong but there is a breather heater that helps nat gas fired engines.

I think this is your problem. Nat gas takes a few more cranks to get the air fuel mixture correct. A heated battery blanket and light oil should solve the problem.

[HyperMOA]

I appreciate the help.
A mechanic today said at -35 most batteries will only put out ~35% of their rated capacity. I will likely bring the battery into the garage and check it on my snap-on voa

I am a mechanic as well. Battery life is reduced in the cold but to 35% in -35 I think is a bit of a high estimate. If a battery can’t maintain load for at least 30 seconds it’s junk or undersized.

[spoiledsaskhunter]

maybe you could try a 1 amp battery charger and just leave it on all the time. it would keep your battery up and also warm.....more juice. i would also (when it's warmer) close it up a little, then just put a trouble light under it...makes a heck of a difference, and only costs the power for a 100 watt bulb. plug it in when its cold. simple always seems better to me.

[Ken07AOVette]

maybe you could try a 1 amp battery charger and just leave it on all the time. it would keep your battery up and also warm.....more juice. i would also (when it's warmer) close it up a little, then just put a trouble light under it...makes a heck of a difference, and only costs the power for a 100 watt bulb. plug it in when its cold. simple always seems better to me.

The battery is actually charged by the system itself, it has a trickle charger built in.

An old trouble light, the metal one with a hundred watt bulb that gets to 11000 degrees to the touch is a good idea. I might try and find one of them.

I converted everything to LED which has no heat but I like that idea.

Again though, one issue is there is no where to stick a light underneath, where the little heater blows hot air. I will try the light though. Thank you.

I always thought about putting a couple lights in the engine compartment of the boat, keep the batteries and engine above 0, but it is always plugged into shore power so the batteries are kept up. The antifreeze is good for -100c so it better be good.

[spoiledsaskhunter]

thanks for not cussing me out for offering a stupid idea...that's something that happens too often around here.

the trouble light thing is something that works for me. with my atv in bitterly cold weather, i throw a tarp over it and a trouble light up close under it and have never had it refuse to start.

hope you find a solution.

[guysmiley]

Is your heater like this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Kats-1155-Watt-Magnetic-Heater/dp/B000I8TPFU/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=magnetic+block+heater&qid=1641491268&sr=8-4

Might work for you if you can find some metal to stick it to.

[Ken07AOVette]

thanks for not cussing me out for offering a stupid idea...that's something that happens too often around here.

the trouble light thing is something that works for me. with my atv in bitterly cold weather, i throw a tarp over it and a trouble light up close under it and have never had it refuse to start.

hope you find a solution.

Oh hey not at all, thank you for the old school very bright (sic) suggestion!

I was thinking of any kind of backup heat to warm the backup generator, which is stupid of me not doing anything over the last what, 10 years I have owned the damn thing?

Idiot I am.

I am confident of my Honda 2000w and several little heaters, I am sure I can fire it up in any weather in about 15 minutes or so, IF I AM HERE. If I am out on a fire call or gone to town though, the trouble light is a great remedy.

Also- autocorrect changed my reply earlier- my snap-on tester is an AVR not a voa. voa is something to do with wine I think lol

[Ken07AOVette]

Is your heater like this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Kats-1155-Watt-Magnetic-Heater/dp/B000I8TPFU/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=magnetic+block+heater&qid=1641491268&sr=8-4

Might work for you if you can find some metal to stick it to.

no its like this, and the block is aluminum

https://www.amazon.ca/Zerostart-3400083-Wolverine-Transmission-Reservoir/dp/B07H314P2K/ref=dp_fod_1?pd_rd_i=B07H314P2K&psc=1

I might still make some sort of steel can that exactly fits over the oil filter, I think there is maybe merit to warming the oil. I just dont know if the heat will travel out of the filter through the cooler or back into the block. I guess a radiant temp gun would tell though.

a piece of thinwall pipe around the filter with an end cap would work. Just a little welding, not lathe work. hmmmmm- exhaust pipe!

[o.w.l]

Would a heat tape from a water line wrapped around the pan help any or is there room for something like that?

[amosfella]

Heat lamps and bulbs are easy to find at any farm supply store. Get a few extra bulbs.

[Ken07AOVette]

Would a heat tape from a water line wrapped around the pan help any or is there room for something like that?

No room. You would have to remove the motor there is no clearance at all.

Heat lamps and bulbs are easy to find at any farm supply store. Get a few extra bulbs.

looking today! The little heater is working great, but much higher chance of failure and much more cost compared to a bulb.

I did think of a way to do the silicone pad on the cheap; peel off the paper and stick metal duct tape, sticky side to the pad. Then wrap the filter and either insulate it and wrap with black tape, or just wrap it so it is removeable when you change filter. The light is still cheaper than a 500w silicone pad, and again I do not know if the heat would travel from the oil filter or not in the little air cooled engine.

[Ken07AOVette]

Got one- 2nd hand shop in Lloydminster $5.

thanks guys, will update after I get it installed.

[amosfella]

No room. You would have to remove the motor there is no clearance at all.



looking today! The little heater is working great, but much higher chance of failure and much more cost compared to a bulb.

I did think of a way to do the silicone pad on the cheap; peel off the paper and stick metal duct tape, sticky side to the pad. Then wrap the filter and either insulate it and wrap with black tape, or just wrap it so it is removeable when you change filter. The light is still cheaper than a 500w silicone pad, and again I do not know if the heat would travel from the oil filter or not in the little air cooled engine.

Zip ties. One of the top 10 inventions of mankind... Er... Peoplekind....

[Ken07AOVette]

Zip ties. One of the top 10 inventions of mankind... Er... Peoplekind....

https://i.postimg.cc/bJQ35Rpc/like.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[NCC]

I use 50 watt incandescent light bulbs to keep 6 of my cattle waterer risers from freezing. I change them all in the fall before the snow and ice builds up. Bulbs run off of the thermostat on the waterer. The radiant heat from the bulbs seems to heat up everything better than heat tape. I buy a cheap block heater extension cord, cut off the female end and wire on a pig tail light socket that can be purchased at most hardware stores for a few bucks.