Long Range Scopes

[raab]

Hey guys, looking for opinions on the Vortex Strike Eagle, Vortex PST, Night Force SHV FFP scopes. Will they work well for long range shooting/hunting/PRS? Or should I save up and spend quite a bit more on a NX8, NXS or Razor? Also open to other suggestions.

[catnthehat]

I have several friends who use them and love them all the way out to 1K.
I prefer a SFP for several reasons , most if the concerning my eyes , but many do not have the sane problems I do.
Cat

[schreyer]

Depends on how far you wanna chase that rainbow.

Heres my two cents from experience:

FFP scopes are good for PRS matches or long range shooting. I say that because I've found FFP scopes (Nightforce ATACR line) very addicting in engaging multiple targets at various distance. You can use the method called 'Milling' the target. Where as knowing the height and width of the target you can use your reticle to determine how far the target is down to 5% margin of error.

For hunting close range, I would probably stick with SFP scopes. Simply because with the power moved all the way down, the reticle is too tiny to focus on the animal with FFP scopes.

I've had a friend use his Vortex Razor and is having problems already. I haven't had a problem with any of my ATACR's yet.

I also run an SHV on my coyote gun, and while it lacks the comforts of the NXS lines, it does the job wonderfully.

[raab]

Depends on how far you wanna chase that rainbow.

Heres my two cents from experience:

FFP scopes are good for PRS matches or long range shooting. I say that because I've found FFP scopes (Nightforce ATACR line) very addicting in engaging multiple targets at various distance. You can use the method called 'Milling' the target. Where as knowing the height and width of the target you can use your reticle to determine how far the target is down to 5% margin of error.

For hunting close range, I would probably stick with SFP scopes. Simply because with the power moved all the way down, the reticle is too tiny to focus on the animal with FFP scopes.

I've had a friend use his Vortex Razor and is having problems already. I haven't had a problem with any of my ATACR's yet.

I also run an SHV on my coyote gun, and while it lacks the comforts of the NXS lines, it does the job wonderfully.

How do you find the eye relief on the SHV? That's my biggest concern with them.

[6.5 shooter]

As a gopher/ target shooter I use only second plain scopes I like to see my target and find FFP cover up to much area on the targets. For hunting I use Duplex and have never had a problem and they can be used as a "rough" range finder as well.

[schreyer]

How do you find the eye relief on the SHV? That's my biggest concern with them.

Eye relief on my SHV (5-20x56) I find very forgiving. I've had it on several rifles of mine before it ended up on my Remington 700 varmint. Never had a problem with it.

[Artist]

Hey guys, looking for opinions on the Vortex Strike Eagle, Vortex PST, Night Force SHV FFP scopes. Will they work well for long range shooting/hunting/PRS? Or should I save up and spend quite a bit more on a NX8, NXS or Razor? Also open to other suggestions.

I have a Nightforce 12-42 x 56 (NPR2 Illuminated reticle) on my .257Wby. I love it, but realistically, I don't think I need that much scope on that caliber. The NPR2 reticle is awesome as it provides numerous "crosshair points" to shoot at a wide range of distances without touching the scope settings (kinda like having multiple sight-pins on a bow).

[Smokinyotes]

I have a NF SHV 4-14x56 on my 257 wby but it’s a sfp. I really like it with a 300 yard zero 2moa puts me on at 400, 4 moa at 500 and a hair over 6 at 600. I really don’t notice any difference in the glass compared to all my NXS scopes.

[Artist]

What's a nice used Nightforce 12-42 x 56 worth these days?

[EZM]

You mentioned hunting AND long range ....

The big consideration is low magnification here, if you are using it for hunting. I can't image a scope that "starts" at the low magnification of 12 power to be of any practical use for typical hunting field situations.

Maybe it's a me problem - but I like to be able to dial it down to 3,4,5 power and keep it there and then crank it up if I need to 9,12,15 or whatever if the target is out there a ways and I need the magnification and have a steady rest and some time

trying to find and keep a moving target in your view at shorter ranges would be problematic I think

[Dubious]

Ezm, some of the nightforce scopes are 2.5-20 or 4-32 makes them pretty appealing for hunting and long range shooting. I really wonder how tiny that ffp will look on that low end, it may be unusable.

[EZM]

Ezm, some of the nightforce scopes are 2.5-20 or 4-32 makes them pretty appealing for hunting and long range shooting. I really wonder how tiny that ffp will look on that low end, it may be unusable.

And that brings up another point - a heavier cross hair can be a benefit in some situations, bush hunting short range would be one of them.

I can see something like what you mentioned above being a pain in this situation.

I guess the point I was making is - if you are using it for hunting and target and long range - you probably have to think about the trade offs and usability of the scope in each situation.

[raab]

I guess another question is about "milling." Once I get good at it, will it be quicker then taking out a range finder and ranging? Basically if something walks out between 250 and 350 yards.Will I be able to get an approximate distance quickly without having to move or make a lot of noise?

[schreyer]

I guess another question is about "milling." Once I get good at it, will it be quicker then taking out a range finder and ranging? Basically if something walks out between 250 and 350 yards.Will I be able to get an approximate distance quickly without having to move or make a lot of noise?

Absolutely it will be quicker. I’ve been able to successfully mill targets in seconds myself. And I’m by no means a pro. It takes some practice obviously but it’s not overly complicated to do.

[Redneck 7]

SHV from Nightforce is a great scope. Reliable dialling and tracking. Great glass for the price point and smooth operation. I have one and it surprises me whenever I use it. For Japanese made optics, they’re very nice.

I wouldn’t hesitate getting a Nightforce, and for what you want I wouldn’t consider a vortex. Just spend the money on a Nightforce

[AI 6.5]

I guess another question is about "milling." Once I get good at it, will it be quicker then taking out a range finder and ranging? Basically if something walks out between 250 and 350 yards.Will I be able to get an approximate distance quickly without having to move or make a lot of noise?

Absolutely not. Trying to do it on the fly in a hunting situation or any other situation is not as fast or near as accurate as a rangefinder considering you need to know the dimensions of the object you are ranging and can you hold the reticle steady enough to obtain an accurate measurement? How long is that going to take? If you are only talking 250 to 350 yards is it even worth it? If you are in a static location and have the time you can make a range card but if you have the time for that you can use a rangefinder and this is obviously not applicable in a lot of hunting situations.

[marky_mark]

Absolutely not. Trying to do it on the fly in a hunting situation or any other situation is not as fast or near as accurate as a rangefinder considering you need to know the dimensions of the object you are ranging and can you hold the reticle steady enough to obtain an accurate measurement? How long is that going to take? If you are only talking 250 to 350 yards is it even worth it? If you are in a static location and have the time you can make a range card but if you have the time for that you can use a rangefinder and this is obviously not applicable in a lot of hunting situations.

x2

[elkhunter11]

Absolutely not. Trying to do it on the fly in a hunting situation or any other situation is not as fast or near as accurate as a rangefinder considering you need to know the dimensions of the object you are ranging and can you hold the reticle steady enough to obtain an accurate measurement? How long is that going to take? If you are only talking 250 to 350 yards is it even worth it? If you are in a static location and have the time you can make a range card but if you have the time for that you can use a rangefinder and this is obviously not applicable in a lot of hunting situations.

Well said, and if you use a rangefinder/binoculars combo you range the animal as you identify it and decide if you are going to shoot it, so it takes no extra time in most
cases.

[EZM]

Also, if you set up in a spot, I usually range a few objects - the "big stump" , than fence post, that whatever and take a quick mental note. It really helps you determine what distances the edge of those trees are, and actually trains you as well I find. I make it a game to mentally call out the thing before I range it.

If you have time, of course, ranging is the right thing to do, just taking a few more seconds to calm down and be doing something can be helpful to. Reminds you not to rush stuff - buck fever never goes completely away !!!!

[raab]

This is my thinking on the FFP thing. I hunt a lot of prairie farm land where shots could easily be 250-400 yards with little to no cover. So moving for the range finder or anything else could give away my position and end up with a spooked deer.

With a FFP scope I could memorize the MOA distances using 18" as the average deer width from brisket to back. If I know those distances I should be able to have a rough range estimate quickly. I could then use the reticle for an approximate holdover at any magnification. It wouldn't matter if it was 6x or 12x or higher. As for platform I would be shooting off my bag, which is stable. So you could see why Im intrigued by the option.

Now in saying that I've never done it, but that was the theory behind it. With my 308 zeroed at 100 yards the bullet drop is 10" at 250 yards and 24" at 350. So ranging will be important.

[catnthehat]

Raab at 400 yards I doubt if using your rangefinder will spook an animal any more than adjusting your parallax on a scope, nothing has spooked when I ranged it at that distance or further , or at 300 for that matter .
Cat

[raab]

Raab at 400 yards I doubt if using your rangefinder will spook an animal any more than adjusting your parallax on a scope, nothing has spooked when I ranged it at that distance or further , or at 300 for that matter .
Cat

Yea but your up in the great north woods Cat. You dont have the paranoid skittish does we have down here. :)

You guys are also assuming that the deer will just stop and hang out a while. In my experience during the rut they dont stay in the open long. The biggest thing I'd like to know is if any of the long distance guys have used it before, and if it will be quicker then ranging if everything is memorized. Because right now I find that I dont always have enough time to range. Which leaves me guessing and I could shoot over or under the deer if they're in that 250-350 yard range.

If not I may look at setting up a 270 with a fixed 6 for MPBR.

[catnthehat]

I have hunted down south on the flats as well ad well as places up here where there is clear line of sight for a thousand or more meters.
Not all my kills have been inside 375 yards :)
As far as using Mildots or hash marks for ranging goes, I haven't I have always relied on a high quality range finder
Cat

[catnthehat]

My goto scope for accuracy verification on a rifle and for extended hunting and shooting BTW is an IOR Valdada
9-36X-56, and it is a FFP scope.
Cat

[marky_mark]

Yea but your up in the great north woods Cat. You dont have the paranoid skittish does we have down here. :)

You guys are also assuming that the deer will just stop and hang out a while. In my experience during the rut they dont stay in the open long. The biggest thing I'd like to know is if any of the long distance guys have used it before, and if it will be quicker then ranging if everything is memorized. Because right now I find that I dont always have enough time to range. Which leaves me guessing and I could shoot over or under the deer if they're in that 250-350 yard range.

If not I may look at setting up a 270 with a fixed 6 for MPBR.

Whats your goal?
To Be able to hunt more effectively and acquire targets faster up to 400 yards?
And shoot efficiently at those distances?
To me, it sounds like you need to invest in rf binoculars first

[marky_mark]

If your looking at shooting further away read these
There is a ton of knowledge on here from the best of the best

https://precisionrifleblog.com/category/ballistics/how-much-does-it-matter/

If your looking at shooting at extended distances
To me, you need to rethink everything and start from the beginning

[elkhunter11]

Yea but your up in the great north woods Cat. You dont have the paranoid skittish does we have down here. :)

You guys are also assuming that the deer will just stop and hang out a while. In my experience during the rut they dont stay in the open long. The biggest thing I'd like to know is if any of the long distance guys have used it before, and if it will be quicker then ranging if everything is memorized. Because right now I find that I dont always have enough time to range. Which leaves me guessing and I could shoot over or under the deer if they're in that 250-350 yard range.

If not I may look at setting up a 270 with a fixed 6 for MPBR.

There is no quicker way to accurately range, than using a binocular/rangefinder combination, you range the animal, as you identify it.

[catnthehat]

This is a typical ranging /trajectory chart supplied by IOR for their scopes.
The only time I use it is at the range on set distance steel from 200 too 1,000.
When hunting I disregard it simply a set of rangefinder binoculars is faster and better, as was stated, you will be looking through them first anyway, then I turret to the distance I need and hold center if using a scope be it FFP or SFP.
I keep a dope chart taped to the stock, I find this way the easiest for me when using a long range rig, be it hunting or at the range.
https://i.imgur.com/iHJHXEw.jpg?1

[6.5 shooter]

This is a typical ranging /trajectory chart supplied by IOR for their scopes.
The only time I use it is at the range on set distance steel from 200 too 1,000.
When hunting I disregard it simply a set of rangefinder binoculars is faster and better, as was stated, you will be looking through them first anyway, then I turret to the distance I need and hold center if using a scope be it FFP or SFP.
I keep a dope chart taped to the stock, I find this way the easiest for me when using a long range rig, be it hunting or at the range.
https://i.imgur.com/iHJHXEw.jpg?1

Biggest problem with using a scope reticule as a range finder is that not all deer are built to the same standards. When we were down in the lower states we kept wondering where all the mature deer were? They all looked like yearlings to myself and the wife.
I know the deer to the North of Edmonton are larger then the deer down here in the south. So a range finder is a much better choice and if your rifles PBR is say 250 yards then if you feel the deer is still to far away try getting closer.
No shame in losing an animal if you try to get with in a more comfortable shooting range, wounding one however carries a life time of regret.

[obsessed1]

For all my rifles intended to shoot past moderate range ( 3-400 in my world) I don't bother with ffp or range finding reticles ect. I keep it simple.
Use highest BC bullet I can. Zero for MPBR for caliber and figure out on my reticle how to ensure deer is inside my MPBR and shoot. I prefer a bdc reticle for hunting and know if it's far enough to need drop calculation it's going to be on max magnification. Even a .308 can get you a mpbr distance far enough out to allow time to range and dial for further shots.. keep things as simple as possible. Reticle ranging is great for sudo sniping and range work and is a great skill to develop, but in field there's often too many variables and time limitations to make it happen.
Rifle setup is key. My .308 is set to a mpbr of 300yds with a +- of 3.5" my 400yd drop is 20" so anything within 300yds is just point and shoot I use my bdc to verify distance but when in doubt I always use the range finder. If your prone behind a gun bringing up a RF with your shooting hand doesnt make enough movement to matter.
If your hunting spooky deer that run the moment you see them even at really long range get a flatter shooting rifle and take more precautions to your stalk. JMO

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[catnthehat]

Biggest problem with using a scope reticule as a range finder is that not all deer are built to the same standards. When we were down in the lower states we kept wondering where all the mature deer were? They all looked like yearlings to myself and the wife.
I know the deer to the North of Edmonton are larger then the deer down here in the south. So a range finder is a much better choice and if your rifles PBR is say 250 yards then if you feel the deer is still to far away try getting closer.
No shame in losing an animal if you try to get with in a more comfortable shooting range, wounding one however carries a life time of regret.

My thoughts exactly! In read once where Jack O'Connor missed a bear with a mag full because when they checked the tracks , he were shooting at a younger, smaller bear than what he thought, so he shot over it:budo:
Cat

[raab]

So what you guys are saying is theres no point on using a FFP for hunting, and I'd be better off with another rifle. I already have a range finder and good bino's, but want something quicker where I dont have to move as much. 25-06, 270, or 7RM with a fixed 6 I should be able to get a 300 yard MPBR easily, maybe even a bit further depending on zero.

[Smokinyotes]

Buy yourself a Burris Eliminator scope. Range, compensate, and shoot. My buddy has couple of these scopes and although I don’t like them his works very well.

[catnthehat]

So what you guys are saying is theres no point on using a FFP for hunting, and I'd be better off with another rifle. I already have a range finder and good bino's, but want something quicker where I dont have to move as much. 25-06, 270, or 7RM with a fixed 6 I should be able to get a 300 yard MPBR easily, maybe even a bit further depending on zero.

I don't see much sense in a FFP scope and using it for ranging while hunting. But some guys like them.
Way to much calculating going on for me.
A rangefinder will give you the precise distance and a center hold with dialed turret or proper hash mark with a fixed power or SFP variable works far better fir me . I really like using a duplex crosshair these days .
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Buy yourself a Burris Eliminator scope. Range, compensate, and shoot. My buddy has couple of these scopes and although I don’t like them his works very well.

They are very heavy, and they have had issues in cold weather.

[Smokinyotes]

They are very heavy, and they have had issues in cold weather.

And the glasss isn’t grea but if the op wants something fast it could be an option.

[marky_mark]

So what you guys are saying is theres no point on using a FFP for hunting, and I'd be better off with another rifle. I already have a range finder and good bino's, but want something quicker where I dont have to move as much. 25-06, 270, or 7RM with a fixed 6 I should be able to get a 300 yard MPBR easily, maybe even a bit further depending on zero.

You need range finding binoculars…. So Binoculars with a rangefinder built into them

[obsessed1]

Your 308 should get you close to a 300yd mpbr if you use a higher bc / weight ratio bullet. I use a nosler Etip 168gr. Good BC great penetration on game....range finding binos are a great suggestion but $$$. A faster flatter rifle will definitely give you an edge, but properly judging at least max distance is important. Range finders are not that hard or slow to use. At least gives you a rough idea to distance. IMO ranging with your reticle is much slower and not nearly as accurate except for perhaps judging if its inside or outside your MPBR in a hurry.


Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[raab]

You need range finding binoculars…. So Binoculars with a rangefinder built into them

Any recommendations? I currently run the Diamondbacks and cheap bushnell RF. Which has worked well. But I'm starting to take long range (1000+ yards) target shooting seriously so was going to upgrade the RF anyways.

[marky_mark]

Any recommendations? I currently run the Diamondbacks and cheap bushnell RF. Which has worked well. But I'm starting to take long range (1000+ yards) target shooting seriously so was going to upgrade the RF anyways.

Which ever one’s you can afford
I know a few guys with the sigs and they are pretty good
Even on sale right now

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/130568/sig-sauer-kilo-3000bdx-rangefinding-binoculars

[Smokinyotes]

The price from low quality to high end is huge. It depends what you want to spend. I bought new Leica Geovids this past fall and I think they were around $3200

[marky_mark]

You could even get a sig scope and it illuminates your hold over point

[catnthehat]

I have been using Leica Geovids for many years now , I consider them as important as my knife as part if my hunting gear :)
Cat

[raab]

Which ever one’s you can afford
I know a few guys with the sigs and they are pretty good
Even on sale right now

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/130568/sig-sauer-kilo-3000bdx-rangefinding-binoculars

As much as I'd love the Leica's those are probably more in line with my budget. How do guys find the glass on them? Similar to the diamondbacks, or would it be better?

[6.5 shooter]

My range finder was a gift from the wife they are good to 600 yards or so plenty for hunting. No it will not do long range 1000yds. plus but for hunting it is wonderful. Also if you buy a range finder look for one with a red reticule and numbers, much easier to use in the dark timber, black moose etc.

For the long range game, I am sure there are lots of good/great options but they are going to be much more expensive then the $600. dollar Leica's I use. They are a buy once cry once kind of deal, UNLESS your the kind of guy who trades his stuff every time a new product comes out.

[Redneck 7]

Maybe look into a Leupold with a CDS dial. Once you get your load or use factory ammo. Send in the information for a cap that has your dope on it. All in yards so it’s a range, turn and shoot. No converting nothing or thinking in mills or MOA.

[marky_mark]

https://youtu.be/sJ_q_9CWIAo

[Smokinyotes]

A friend of mine bought the sig range finding binos this fall. We compared my geovids to his sig. they both read the exact same range. The glass in the sigs is not quite as good as the geovids but still pretty dam good. The vortex diamond backs aren’t even close to the sigs for clarity.

[marky_mark]

A friend of mine bought the sig range finding binos this fall. We compared my geovids to his sig. they both read the exact same range. The glass in the sigs is not quite as good as the geovids but still pretty dam good. The vortex diamond backs aren’t even close to the sigs for clarity.

Ya the sigs are definitely a good value

[BigJon]

Drifting away from the OP here but seems like a good time to ask...

I currently use stand alone Leica binos and rangefinder....I need to step into the rangefinding bino arena here at some point. I know what I will be getting with Leica but the Sig has received good reviews and is tough to ignore.

Does anyone know where they're made? I do know Sig has a lot of Chinese made products in their line-up.

[EdmontonEli]

I have an eliminator IV for hunting. Tried it out in the gun range. Was able to hit 600 yards gongs without issues. Though, will need to shot more with it to become more comfortable for long range hunting (800 yards max due to the cartridge I'm using).

But for under 300 yard shots for big game, it'll be not problem.

[kujoseto]

So what you guys are saying is theres no point on using a FFP for hunting, and I'd be better off with another rifle. I already have a range finder and good bino's, but want something quicker where I dont have to move as much. 25-06, 270, or 7RM with a fixed 6 I should be able to get a 300 yard MPBR easily, maybe even a bit further depending on zero.

If I were in your shoes, that’s what I would do.
Look at the drop chart out to 400m for a 7 rem mag with a 120gr or 140gr Barnes or a 270 launching a 110gr barnes and determine whether you can’t just hold on big game. If you’re not already reloading, I’d spend the extra money on that so you have your own supply of practice and hunting ammo then just get real familiar with it at all sorts of ranges and burn powder.

Now I know some people hunt with a setup like you started this whole conversation with but I certainly don’t. A 6.5x55 with a fixed 6x can cover a lot of hunting in this province. The 30-06 currently has a 3.5-10 but I still haven’t felt the need to burn the CDS dial for it

I also like vanilla ice cream so I’m good with being viewed as boring haha

[EZM]

They are very heavy, and they have had issues in cold weather.

Like mounting a 5lb bazooka on top of your rifle ....:)

[EZM]

The reality is 95% of the shots you will take with any scope, with most modern cartridges, will be within mpbr .... and for those shots out past that range (say 300yds for arguments sake) you can dial/range/holdover or whatever you need to do.

There's also a lot less chance you are spooking the animal out that far so often have enough time to verify and adjust before you let the bullet fly.

[wallz]

Which ever one’s you can afford
I know a few guys with the sigs and they are pretty good
Even on sale right now

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/130568/sig-sauer-kilo-3000bdx-rangefinding-binoculars


Most of the Sig 3000 binos will be dropping in price with the new better improved model coming soon.

KILO10K-ABS HD 10×42 mm laser rangefinding binocular

Supposed to be better glass, better range finder and a few new features.