Leader

[musak4ears]

Does anyone use steel leaders anymore for walleye or pike??

Just curious how everyone is setting up their lines.

[fordtruckin]

Does anyone use steel leaders anymore for walleye or pike??

Just curious how everyone is setting up their lines.

I do for pike but don’t get out very often, nor am I that successful. They aren’t a native fish in Montana and there’s only a few body’s of water I fish for them in.

[Outbound]

I've used wire leaders for pike. I'm thinking of just going up to a heavier abrasion resistant monofilament, something liek 30lb Maxima Ultragreen.

[Remps17]

Fluoro leader for everything. I haven’t had issues with breaking off. I change out leaders as needed. 50lb for pike, 5-8lb for walleye.

I would suggest getting fluoro leader material over mainline fluoro if you end up going that route.

I have no idea if pike care or not, but I am in the camp of it doesn’t hurt.

[AlbertanGP]

Does anyone use steel leaders anymore for walleye or pike??

Just curious how everyone is setting up their lines.

For walleye? Not a chance.

For pike, I prefer to tie my own quick strike rigs with #4 Gamakatsu trebles or 5/0 circle hooks and 50lb Sufix Invisiline Fluoro. I just started fishing for pike again recently, so I can't say how much of a difference it makes. But even 50lb fluoro is definitely less visible than a steel leader, and you don't have to buy supplies to crimp if you make your own. If you want to stay steel but not have to crimp, I've read Surflon leader material works well.

[SamSteele]

I use Fluoro leaders for all walleye and most pike (different weights). When I am gunning for big pike I use titanium leaders. They are pricey but last far longer than a steel leader that is kinked after the first fish.

Also, fluoro leader material is different than fluoro mainline. Use the leader material for leaders.

SS

[Frank_NK28]

Walleye never! Pike just on my jigging rods so I can change baits easier. Quickstrike rigs for pike I run fluoro rigs.

[EZM]

I have not used steel leaders for close to 20 years. For toothy critters like Pike, using fluoro leader material (as Sam mentions it has to be leader not line material specifically) and NEVER have had a bite through. Not Once.

It doesn't cut your hand up if you grab it, doesn't cut the fish up, more supple, less visible, and you can make whatever length you want for what you are doing. 50lb for casting, 80lb for trolling heavier large (7"+) cranks.

Love it !!! I see absolutely no advantage to steel in any way shape or form. Technology is here, why not use it. Steel leaders are hundreds of years old. Specially formulated high abrasion fluoro is the future.

[Frank_NK28]

My wife's youngest son lives in PEI and fishes Bluefin. He runs 150#-200# fluoro leaders for them. They use a neat little gadget that is kind of like a drinking straw that slides down the leader to the hook after they are hooked up to prevent chafing and wearing through the leader on the corners of the tuna's mouth. The tuna get hooked in the corners of the mouth with a 14/0 circle hook.

[eyeflyer]

I have never used a leader for walleye, I don't really fish for pike anymore but used to use Finn-tastic titanium leaders when I did. https://thefishinhole.com/index.cfm?action=product&kw=/FINN-TASTIC/TITANIUM-LEADER/&se=24363

[ragweed]

I’ve gone to flouro leaders a couple years ago. Have not had any break on me yet. Lots of pike and walleye out of newell.


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[ragweed]

Oh. I should also mention that I inspect them once in a while a change them up as needed.


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[EZM]

Oh. I should also mention that I inspect them once in a while a change them up as needed.


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That's always a good idea for sure, particularly if your leader is light (like 20#).

I rarely use a leader for walleye unless I'm in a "pikey" area - then it's a lighter fluorocarbon leader and a inexpensive jig - so no big loss if some little sharp toothed dink pike gets a little frisky.

Seems to me the smaller ones have sharper teeth and all the crazy flipping and death rolling they do causes far more abrasion compared to a bigger pike.

[58thecat]

Yup, also use 20lbs fluorocarbon fishing line.
Last year kayak fishing with a steel leader on we caught buckets full of walleye, pike, trout, perch etc and smallmouth bass too:)

[Bushleague]

I've used wire leaders for pike. I'm thinking of just going up to a heavier abrasion resistant monofilament, something liek 30lb Maxima Ultragreen.

If your going to use mono, or flouro, you need to use Leader material which is totaly different than line. I've used Berkley Big Game leader material in 30-80lb test with good results.

In general if I am fishing bait I use mono or flouro, tie the leaders long and when the end gets too chewed up I trim it back and re-tie. For fishing lures, where I dont want to use a long leader I generally just use wire. In particular, if you are fishing around weeds, mono/ flouro sucks as the more bulky knots/ crimps will pick up more weeds.

If I'm half serious about catching walleye, and theres lots of pike around, I tend to favor thin single strand wire leaders. I've never been convinced that the very thin single strand wire spooks fish more than a much heavyer flouro leader.

[Dewey Cox]

I usually use a steel leader if I'm fishing a spoon, mostly just for the benefit of the swivel, and because that's how my Dad did it...

Do you guys making your own leaders tie on a swivel?
Do you tie on a clasp too?

[eagleflyfisher]

If you’re using 50lb flouro what are your knots ?
To your hooks and to your main line ?
Thanks !

[58thecat]

I usually use a steel leader if I'm fishing a spoon, mostly just for the benefit of the swivel, and because that's how my Dad did it...

Do you guys making your own leaders tie on a swivel?
Do you tie on a clasp too?

I use both on my homemade leaders.

[Bushleague]

I usually use a steel leader if I'm fishing a spoon, mostly just for the benefit of the swivel, and because that's how my Dad did it...

Do you guys making your own leaders tie on a swivel?
Do you tie on a clasp too?

Yep, swivel and clasp. If I'm not too worried about keeping things subtle I sometimes put a swivle at one end, AND a snap swivel at the other to give me two swivels.

If you tune your spoons properly they shouldnt twist your line, but with spinners some twist is inevitable.

Tuning spoons is mostly a matter of playing with the hook size. If the spoon is rolling over switching to a bigger hook, or adding a plastic trailer, will generally fix it. Other than a very few exeptions (fishing a spoon as a topwater for instance) you dont want to overload it, the closer you can keep the spoon to its rolling over point the better it seems to work.

[fisher69]

i still use steel leaders and i havent had a problem catching pike and walleye. i have been thinking about trying out a heavier fluoro leader sometime, as the only fluoro line i have right now is on the lighter side.

[Curtsyneil]

I was taught by my dad to never use steel leaders while fishing for walleye and if you must make sure they are black. I always tie on directly to my jig with mono and let the walleye slaying begin. It’s kinda like when your trolling and the other boat is passing you 3 times before you complete your one pass. They can’t figure out why your catching and there not lol.

[Poppa]

10lb Power Pro to 12lb Seaguar fluoro. We fish almost entirely for walleye (and topwater bass when we're home in MB) so invisibility is really important. This combo has never let me down.

[EZM]

I usually use a steel leader if I'm fishing a spoon, mostly just for the benefit of the swivel, and because that's how my Dad did it...

Do you guys making your own leaders tie on a swivel?
Do you tie on a clasp too?

You can tie direct to line, you can use a swivel on one end and a swivel snap on the other, you can tie it short or long or you can make up all sorts of bait bait rigs with it (like the one below).

The possibilities are endless .... bead stops, floaters, sliding sinkers, glow beads, double snell harness or just a plain and a simple leader to attach your mainline on one end and a lure to the other ..... totally customized to what you need.

https://i.imgur.com/fPlJkiS.jpg

[akn]

If you’re using 50lb flouro what are your knots ?
To your hooks and to your main line ?
Thanks !

I use improved clinch or gryp knot with the tool, only use three turns for each.

[Bushleague]

You can tie direct to line, you can use a swivel on one end and a swivel snap on the other, you can tie it short or long or you can make up all sorts of bait bait rigs with it (like the one below).

The possibilities are endless .... bead stops, floaters, sliding sinkers, glow beads, double snell harness or just a plain and a simple leader to attach your mainline on one end and a lure to the other ..... totally customized to what you need.

https://i.imgur.com/fPlJkiS.jpg

So a slightly different take, but if I'm actually targeting pike I will rig my hooks with single strand steel, usually a large single with a smaller treble on a wire stinger, then tie to the flouro. The reason being that when the buisness end of my flouro starts to get chewed up I can easily nip off a couple inches and re-tie the hook assembly back on.

[dustinjoels]

I switched to fluoro leaders about 5 years ago after reading a bunch of EZM's posts in another thread. I will never go back to steel.

I like to start long and then trim them up as they get nicked up. I usually have about one breakoff a year, but almost always due to negligence/laziness on my part for not retying when the leader material starts to get frayed.

I use a swivel at the top and a mustad fastach clip at the bottom. I absolutely love the fastach clip and can't recommend it enough. Makes it easy for even smaller kids to change hooks.

[Smoky buck]

Another fluorocarbon user here.

[stob]

i fished ultralight with an 18lb fluro leader for years backed with spyder wire ... after a 20 min fight 1x i reeled in a about a 15lb pike that was head snagged with a small jig ...he/she/they/them just looked at me, made an evil grin then barrel rolled with big tail whip and pop goes the fluro ... jigging and trolling same set up on all rods ...as for big pike 20-30lb fluro or maxima ultra green would suffice i would think ... i catch big tootheerrrr bottom fish off the left coast with 20-30lb mono ... sooo????

[Smoky buck]

i fished ultralight with an 18lb fluro leader for years backed with spyder wire ... after a 20 min fight 1x i reeled in a about a 15lb pike that was head snagged with a small jig ...he/she/they/them just looked at me, made an evil grin then barrel rolled with big tail whip and pop goes the fluro ... jigging and trolling same set up on all rods ...as for big pike 20-30lb fluro or maxima ultra green would suffice i would think ... i catch big tootheerrrr bottom fish off the left coast with 20-30lb mono ... sooo????

Pike teeth are harder on your leader than westcoast species and it’s the little guys that have the sharpest teeth. I grew up in BC fishing the coast

40lb fluorocarbon leader material works majority of the time but have had them fail. This was after very high numbers of pike were caught to be fair. You need to keep an eye out for nicks. 60# I have not had fail YET

[EZM]

i fished ultralight with an 18lb fluro leader for years backed with spyder wire ... after a 20 min fight 1x i reeled in a about a 15lb pike that was head snagged with a small jig ...he/she/they/them just looked at me, made an evil grin then barrel rolled with big tail whip and pop goes the fluro ... jigging and trolling same set up on all rods ...as for big pike 20-30lb fluro or maxima ultra green would suffice i would think ... i catch big tootheerrrr bottom fish off the left coast with 20-30lb mono ... sooo????

Fluorocarbon Line is NOT the same material as Fluorocarbon leader material.

The leader material comes in shorter spools by itself and the price per foot (versus regular fluorocarbon line) is huge. Like 10X.

99% of the people who have had "failures" using fluorocarbon leaders where making leaders out of line material - not the specially formulated, high abrasion resistance leader material.

Maxima is actually not real good and is a low quality knock off that touts "line" as "leader" - you get what you pay for IMO.

Look for this ........

https://www.tradeinn.com/waveinn/en/berkley-big-game-fluoro-leader-68-m/1247528/p?utm_source=google_products&utm_medium=merchant&id_producte=1347055&country=ca&gclid=CjwKCAiA5Y6eBhAbEiwA_2ZWIfE3Xu8r1MIr3ckE-RMBX8Ti5gtO1bYZWf5mBFmtzBUAGtoXZUFwbBoCWRgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[JohninAB]

Fluorocarbon leader for me. Fluorocarbon leaders much less damaging to a pike than a steel or titanium leader when it rolls itself up in your line.

[Smoky buck]

Fluorocarbon Line is NOT the same material as Fluorocarbon leader material.

The leader material comes in shorter spools by itself and the price per foot (versus regular fluorocarbon line) is huge. Like 10X.

99% of the people who have had "failures" using fluorocarbon leaders where making leaders out of line material - not the specially formulated, high abrasion resistance leader material.

Maxima is actually not real good and is a low quality knock off that touts "line" as "leader" - you get what you pay for IMO.

Look for this ........

https://www.tradeinn.com/waveinn/en/berkley-big-game-fluoro-leader-68-m/1247528/p?utm_source=google_products&utm_medium=merchant&id_producte=1347055&country=ca&gclid=CjwKCAiA5Y6eBhAbEiwA_2ZWIfE3Xu8r1MIr3ckE-RMBX8Ti5gtO1bYZWf5mBFmtzBUAGtoXZUFwbBoCWRgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

My failures are with leader material seagar if my memory is correct. Still have some of the spool left

It doesn’t happen often and the number of pike I put those leaders through I am not complaining. I am talking those days where it’s max two cast’s between fish and I am pretty sure those failed leaders had more than one day of that abuse. If you don’t get too distracted catching fish and check your leader it’s no issue

I have actually had more wire leaders fail over the years too

[JohninAB]

My failures are with leader material seagar if my memory is correct. Still have some of the spool left

Reflects my experience with Seaguar fluorocarbon leader line. Will not use it anymore. Berkley or bust for myself.

[EZM]

My failures are with leader material seagar if my memory is correct. Still have some of the spool left

It doesn’t happen often and the number of pike I put those leaders through I am not complaining. I am talking those days where it’s max two cast’s between fish and I am pretty sure those failed leaders had more than one day of that abuse. If you don’t get too distracted catching fish and check your leader it’s no issue

I have actually had more wire leaders fail over the years too

It's not YOU smoky .... it's your choices of product WE don't like :):):)

I tried Seaguar a few times and was not impressed. I strongly suspect, based on it's flexibility and how it feels and ties up it's not made the same way as the Berkley stuff is.

The Berkley stuff is a bit bitchy to tie and a bit stiff (if you use anything over 40-50lb) but a good set of pliers and nipping off the tag end after takes care of that nicely.

The Berkley stuff also seems to be bullet proof abrasion resistant. I run my hand down the leader every few pike to see how it's holding up and occasionally feel a little burr but not much else.

I tied up some Seaguar - because that's all that was on the shelf before a trip I went on - so tied up a few leaders and it was nice and supple and really easy to tie - so I was ready to love it (and save lots of money if this stuff actually worked).

So I went on the trip, tried the Seaguar leaders out, and it was shredded after about a couple dozen pike and needed to be changed out. Not even close. Not the same.

So I'm happily back to spending more money on better quality leader - and keeping my lures - so it's Berkley Big Game for me and nothing else. I have never had a bite off in over a decade.

That's my experience anyways.

[HL_transplant]

I've been bit off constantly using Seaguar blue label 40# that's about as heavy as you can go on a butterfly blade. Going back to American Fishing Wire 7 strand. Small pike absolutely shredded my rigs.

[Smoky buck]

It's not YOU smoky .... it's your choices of product WE don't like :):):)

I tried Seaguar a few times and was not impressed. I strongly suspect, based on it's flexibility and how it feels and ties up it's not made the same way as the Berkley stuff is.

The Berkley stuff is a bit bitchy to tie and a bit stiff (if you use anything over 40-50lb) but a good set of pliers and nipping off the tag end after takes care of that nicely.

The Berkley stuff also seems to be bullet proof abrasion resistant. I run my hand down the leader every few pike to see how it's holding up and occasionally feel a little burr but not much else.

I tied up some Seaguar - because that's all that was on the shelf before a trip I went on - so tied up a few leaders and it was nice and supple and really easy to tie - so I was ready to love it (and save lots of money if this stuff actually worked).

So I went on the trip, tried the Seaguar leaders out, and it was shredded after about a couple dozen pike and needed to be changed out. Not even close. Not the same.

So I'm happily back to spending more money on better quality leader - and keeping my lures - so it's Berkley Big Game for me and nothing else. I have never had a bite off in over a decade.

That's my experience anyways.

I always just assumed it was that I went with too light for a leader material and didn’t consider it was a brand issue. It is actually leader material not line but it is seaguar gold spool if my memory is correct

Luckily there was a unintentional brand change to Berkeley when I upgraded from 40# to 60# fluorocarbon lol

So my improved results might be more to do with the brand change rather than going a little heavier it seems

I did get a ton a fish on the seaguar leaders before failure but running big lures the leader is often clear of the teeth could be why.

[AlbertanGP]

This is a great thread. I always knew there was leader line and main line, but never figured it made much of a difference. Now I know. I'm looking for this Berkley Big Game Fluorocarbon Leader material, but it's hard to come across. Even Berkley's own site doesn't list it...just the mono leader line. I may try Yo_Zuri (http://www.yo-zuri.com/products/archives/15). I'm a big believer in Japanese fluorocarbons.

Has anyone tried using crimps with fluorocarbon leaders? I'm not sure if it would weaken the "knot strength" considerably. But I feel that it would be a lot cleaner.

[Seli]

I change leader material depending on how I am fishing.
Steel or titanium if trolling for pike, fluro if I am jigging.
I do not think Pike really care what type of leader is on.
No leader for any other species in Central Alberta.

[EZM]

This is a great thread. I always knew there was leader line and main line, but never figured it made much of a difference. Now I know. I'm looking for this Berkley Big Game Fluorocarbon Leader material, but it's hard to come across. Even Berkley's own site doesn't list it...just the mono leader line. I may try Yo_Zuri (http://www.yo-zuri.com/products/archives/15). I'm a big believer in Japanese fluorocarbons.

Has anyone tried using crimps with fluorocarbon leaders? I'm not sure if it would weaken the "knot strength" considerably. But I feel that it would be a lot cleaner.

I experimented with crimping when I started using it, but you have to have the right size crimps, make sure you don't mix them up as I run a few different weights of fluoro.

I ended up, and still to this day, just tie them up. For the heavier weights a couple sets of small pliers (and cutting the tag end off you grab with the pliers) makes for a nice, neat and tight knot.

Because I run a swivel on one side, and a swivel snap on the other, to hold the other end I just thread a nail through the loop of the swivel to pull the other side tight without damaging the leader OR I loop the line over my other hand a few times and pull slow and steady. The key here is to cut off anything your pliers damage or shred - so running a few inches long is a good idea.

Ultimately - Knots are totally fine, key is just to take your time to make sure they are moistened - that they cinch down and seat nicely as you pull them snug.

[AlbertanGP]

Just as an FYI it looks like Berkley currently only manufactures Big Game Fluorocarbon Leader material for the European market. That would explain why only the monofilament leader material is listed on their NA site. It looks like the easiest way to order it is through Amazon. But it will take a month to come from the UK.

[WayneChristie]

I use Seagar if its all I could find, Im a long way from a tackleshop. otherwise I prefer the better quality stuff. I like 40 for pike if thats all Im after, if Im also hunting walter I prefer 20 pound, thats also what I use on my fly rod for a leader in the river, 20 pound fluoro the length of the rod, seems to work great since I get the odd pike too. I have a spool of 10 pound I use if Im strictly hunting walleye with light line through the ice, then I can take it away from the annoying hammerhandles

[SamSteele]

Just as an FYI it looks like Berkley currently only manufactures Big Game Fluorocarbon Leader material for the European market. That would explain why only the monofilament leader material is listed on their NA site. It looks like the easiest way to order it is through Amazon. But it will take a month to come from the UK.


They have Berkley Pro Spec around here, which has a little less stretch than the Big Game version. I’ve used it without issue in the past.

SS

[Jays toyz]

I just picked up the only leader I could find at Cambodian Tire. Suffix invisiline. Hopefully it's not junk. I have trilene big game but it's from another life when I had a cuddy cabin boat in the salt chuck 24/7.

[Bushleague]

I experimented with crimping when I started using it, but you have to have the right size crimps, make sure you don't mix them up as I run a few different weights of fluoro.

I ended up, and still to this day, just tie them up. For the heavier weights a couple sets of small pliers (and cutting the tag end off you grab with the pliers) makes for a nice, neat and tight knot.

Because I run a swivel on one side, and a swivel snap on the other, to hold the other end I just thread a nail through the loop of the swivel to pull the other side tight without damaging the leader OR I loop the line over my other hand a few times and pull slow and steady. The key here is to cut off anything your pliers damage or shred - so running a few inches long is a good idea.

Ultimately - Knots are totally fine, key is just to take your time to make sure they are moistened - that they cinch down and seat nicely as you pull them snug.

The knots are strong, but they pick up weeds. Never tried crimping flouro, but my crimped steel leaders work much better around weeds than flouro with knots.

[Coiloil37]

Fluro crimps just fine. The fact your talking about using 50-80lb leader on a fish that might pull 2kg of drag I highly doubt strength will be a concern. All your chasing is abrasion resistance. I only run 10kg of drag and haven’t had a crimp slip.

For tools you need a crimper and the appropriate sized crimps. I don’t have crimps in this photo but I have a plethora of crimps from .6mm to 2.2mm.

Regardless, this is what you need

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/977901dc0bf53ce343a473e02801a603.jpg


Burn the tag end of the leader to make a ball then pull it into the crimp and give it a squeeze. This is 100lb mono because the one lure I run fluro leader on got cut off yesterday.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/189c6bce4b7ffcc88a48c2c61da03e14.jpg


Don’t crimp the ends like you do with wire or it can cut the mono/fluro. Leave them belled like you see.


I spent 35 years fishing pike with 6lb mono and never ran a leader. I lost almost zero fish to teeth or abrasion. You guys do whatever you want but the whole thread blows my mind.

[pikergolf]

Fluro crimps just fine. The fact your talking about using 50-80lb leader on a fish that might pull 2kg of drag I highly doubt strength will be a concern. All your chasing is abrasion resistance. I only run 10kg of drag and haven’t had a crimp slip.

For tools you need a crimper and the appropriate sized crimps. I don’t have crimps in this photo but I have a plethora of crimps from .6mm to 2.2mm.

Regardless, this is what you need

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/977901dc0bf53ce343a473e02801a603.jpg


Burn the tag end of the leader to make a ball then pull it into the crimp and give it a squeeze. This is 100lb mono because the one lure I run fluro leader on got cut off yesterday.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230121/189c6bce4b7ffcc88a48c2c61da03e14.jpg


Don’t crimp the ends like you do with wire or it can cut the mono/fluro. Leave them belled like you see.


I spent 35 years fishing pike with 6lb mono and never ran a leader. I lost almost zero fish to teeth or abrasion. You guys do whatever you want but the whole thread blows my mind.
That is a pretty mind blowing statement in itself. :thinking-006: Unless may be you were using a leader?

[eyeflyer]

Coiloil 37 QUOTE: I spent 35 years fishing pike with 6lb mono and never ran a leader. I lost almost zero fish to teeth or abrasion. You guys do whatever you want but the whole thread blows my mind.[/QUOTE]

You spent 35 years targeting pike...........and your choice of line was 6Lb. mono on the most least line shy fish in the country?????

[Coiloil37]

Coiloil 37 QUOTE: I spent 35 years fishing pike with 6lb mono and never ran a leader. I lost almost zero fish to teeth or abrasion. You guys do whatever you want but the whole thread blows my mind.

You spent 35 years targeting pike...........and your choice of line was 6Lb. mono on the most least line shy fish in the country?????[/QUOTE]

You got it. 6lb mono for almost everything in Alberta including lakers. For certain fish in the winter I would run 4lb mono. I don’t recall losing a fish in the last 20 years to broken line or a bite off. I do remember losing plenty as a kid before I knew how to fish and adjust a drag. I also consistently fished 100+ days a year all over AB and sask and caught a ton of fish.


I suspect it was because nobody ever told me I “needed” a leader. I did what my old man did and because it worked I never looked for an alternative. When I moved here to the blue water I “researched” how to fish and everyone fishes a leader. Most marlin guys run 300-400lb mono so I started with 200lb. After losing a large blue a couple years ago to bill rash after a few hour fight I went up to 300lb. I then realised I was protecting against something that was unlikely to happen and it was costing me strikes. Now I fish 80 and 100lb leader and haven’t lost a fish to abrasion since that aforementioned blue. I know I get more strikes as a result and when I get outgunned by a couple hundred kg fish one day I’ll wear it.

Pike could well be the least shy fish in Alberta but I suspect you’re still missing strikes because of the rope your tying your hook to. I wouldn’t know because I never fished a heavy line. Even on the west coast for salmon, halibut, ling etc. I only fished 30lb mono straight to the hook.


Now I’m also amazed I answered the fluro/crimp question and all anyone wants to criticise is my previous line choice. I’m not telling you what to do, just mentioning what I used to use. Perhaps someone will try lighter line and find they get more strikes, maybe not. Use the information as you choose.

[Smoky buck]

With the number of non target pike I have had zip through mono on the strike when targeting trout or walleye. Often all that was felt was a tick and I could feel a lack of weight telling me the lure was gone

Sure I have also landed many pike without a leader too but the % that have cut through mono like nothing is pretty high. Now running straight braid you can get away with a lot more

6lb with a leader completely understand it being effective with the right gear. I run heavy line because of big jerk baits and lures are not cheap even when you build them. 6lb would snap just ripping dive & rise baits through the weeds. It’s not the fight of the fish I am worried about with my line selection I have a drag system for that

As for 6lb mono no leader well it doesn’t work for me I can say that with confidence and have never seen it work for others.

[eyeflyer]

You spent 35 years targeting pike...........and your choice of line was 6Lb. mono on the most least line shy fish in the country?????

You got it. 6lb mono for almost everything in Alberta including lakers. For certain fish in the winter I would run 4lb mono. I don’t recall losing a fish in the last 20 years to broken line or a bite off. I do remember losing plenty as a kid before I knew how to fish and adjust a drag. I also consistently fished 100+ days a year all over AB and sask and caught a ton of fish.


I suspect it was because nobody ever told me I “needed” a leader. I did what my old man did and because it worked I never looked for an alternative. When I moved here to the blue water I “researched” how to fish and everyone fishes a leader. Most marlin guys run 300-400lb mono so I started with 200lb. After losing a large blue a couple years ago to bill rash after a few hour fight I went up to 300lb. I then realised I was protecting against something that was unlikely to happen and it was costing me strikes. Now I fish 80 and 100lb leader and haven’t lost a fish to abrasion since that aforementioned blue. I know I get more strikes as a result and when I get outgunned by a couple hundred kg fish one day I’ll wear it.

Pike could well be the least shy fish in Alberta but I suspect you’re still missing strikes because of the rope your tying your hook to. I wouldn’t know because I never fished a heavy line. Even on the west coast for salmon, halibut, ling etc. I only fished 30lb mono straight to the hook.


Now I’m also amazed I answered the fluro/crimp question and all anyone wants to criticise is my previous line choice. I’m not telling you what to do, just mentioning what I used to use. Perhaps someone will try lighter line and find they get more strikes, maybe not. Use the information as you choose.


[/QUOTE]
I don't target pike except for a bit of fly fishing for them, and use a titanium leader for that. There is more to it than just bite/break off, with 6lb. on larger fish you end up playing the fish to almost complete exhaustion before you can land it, pretty stressful especially in the summer.

[AlbertanGP]

They have Berkley Pro Spec around here, which has a little less stretch than the Big Game version. I’ve used it without issue in the past.

SS

I looked at that. The marketing material is remarkably similar to the Big Game leader material, although a couple of line diameters are slightly different. Maybe it's NA Big Game...

[AlbertanGP]

I just picked up the only leader I could find at Cambodian Tire. Suffix invisiline. Hopefully it's not junk. I have trilene big game but it's from another life when I had a cuddy cabin boat in the salt chuck 24/7.

That's what I started with a few weeks back. It is actually leader material, so there is that.

[AlbertanGP]

Fluro crimps just fine.

Thanks for the heads up. It seems like it would be cleaner than knots, although I am sure knots will work fine.

You guys have some nice lines in Aussieland. I'd love to get my hands on some
Schneider Crystal Fluorocarbon.

[Coiloil37]

Thanks for the heads up. It seems like it would be cleaner than knots, although I am sure knots will work fine.

You guys have some nice lines in Aussieland. I'd love to get my hands on some
Schneider Crystal Fluorocarbon.

I’ve got a sister here visiting. She’s heading back to Calgary at the end of the month and could easily bring some line or gear back to ‘Berta.

[Coiloil37]

[/QUOTE] There is more to it than just bite/break off, with 6lb. on larger fish you end up playing the fish to almost complete exhaustion before you can land it, pretty stressful especially in the summer.[/QUOTE]


I’m glad you’re thinking of the fishes health but trust me, it’s a rare fish in Alberta that can peel more than 4lbs of drag. On 6lb line you can do a lot more than you think.


For a comparison though. Over here, our billfish tournaments are on 8kg line and as per the words straight out of my club presidents mouth… You can “skull drag” a marlin to the boat on 8kg.
For another example, the 6lb IGFA world record black marlin is 735lbs. Igfa mono also has to break at or below its line test rating, aka 6lb line must break below 6lbs whereas the 6 pound Berkley big game I used in the motherland breaks around 9lbs.

Anyway, you do you. I give my experience freely because sometimes it’s good to be exposed to things outside your own bubble.

[HL_transplant]

I guarantee you'd loose fish after fish in late season cabbage beds up at Wollaston Lake with 6lb mono. We limited guests to using 30lb braid or better albeit 20# would cut weeds well. A 48" pike will make quick work in the cabbage of light line it's just a fact. There's no way drag in open water pelagic fishing is the same as fighting fish in late summer cabbage beds.

[AlbertanGP]

I’ve got a sister here visiting. She’s heading back to Calgary at the end of the month and could easily bring some line or gear back to ‘Berta.

Well I wouldn't turn down the offer if it doesn't put you or your sister out too much. I'm in no rush to get it. If it works out on your end PM me an email and I'll send money, or whatever works. Cheers.

[AlbertanGP]

I guarantee you'd loose fish after fish in late season cabbage beds up at Wollaston Lake with 6lb mono. We limited guests to using 30lb braid or better albeit 20# would cut weeds well. A 48" pike will make quick work in the cabbage of light line it's just a fact. There's no way drag in open water pelagic fishing is the same as fighting fish in late summer cabbage beds.

Anything much smaller than 20# braid with big pike or lakers and you run the risk of the line cutting into itself on the spool and losing fish that way as well. Ask me how I know... :(

[HL_transplant]

Anything much smaller than 20# braid with big pike or lakers and you run the risk of the line cutting into itself on the spool and losing fish that way as well. Ask me how I know... :(

True enough. 30# braid cuts cabbage well and works ok a level wind. 40# is better yet.

[EZM]

A couple points here made from a few contributors - I agree that the lighter the line and more invisible, it will definitely help get the number of bites up IF AND WHEN the fish are being line shy ..... you can see this very clearly if you ever use a camera under the ice.

Having said that, using the appropriate gear, heavier line and leader, will reduce or prevent bite offs and allow you "horse" a fish under the ice and/or around weeds or rocks when you need to. Sure .... in open water, you can use lighter line, and with a proper drag, you can tire/work the fish to the boat - but there is very little of that "wide open" water here and if you have a 10-15lb pike on that is heading for the weeds or rocks - you gotta bulldog him.

Ultimately, it's up to each person to do whatever they want. This thread is about leader and hopefully we continue to learn from each other, and take some comments with a grain of salt.

[akn]

There is more to it than just bite/break off, with 6lb. on larger fish you end up playing the fish to almost complete exhaustion you can land it, pretty stressful especially in the summer.


I’m glad you’re thinking of the fishes health but trust me, it’s a rare fish in Alberta that can peel more than 4lbs of drag. On 6lb line you can do a lot more than you think.


For a comparison though. Over here, our billfish tournaments are on 8kg line and as per the words straight out of my club presidents mouth… You can “skull drag” a marlin to the boat on 8kg.
For another example, the 6lb IGFA world record black marlin is 735lbs. Igfa mono also has to break at or below its line test rating, aka 6lb line must break below 6lbs whereas the 6 pound Berkley big game I used in the motherland breaks around 9lbs.

Anyway, you do you. I give my experience freely because sometimes it’s good to be exposed to things outside your own bubble.

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/gallery/black-marlin-fishing/2015/03/fishing-s-most-incredible-catches/?image=0

Seems for IGFA light line marlin they just follow the fish until it surfaces and then gaff it and it may not even be aware that there’s a hook in its mouth

[Bushleague]

You got it. 6lb mono for almost everything in Alberta including lakers. For certain fish in the winter I would run 4lb mono. I don’t recall losing a fish in the last 20 years to broken line or a bite off. I do remember losing plenty as a kid before I knew how to fish and adjust a drag. I also consistently fished 100+ days a year all over AB and sask and caught a ton of fish.


I suspect it was because nobody ever told me I “needed” a leader. I did what my old man did and because it worked I never looked for an alternative. When I moved here to the blue water I “researched” how to fish and everyone fishes a leader. Most marlin guys run 300-400lb mono so I started with 200lb. After losing a large blue a couple years ago to bill rash after a few hour fight I went up to 300lb. I then realised I was protecting against something that was unlikely to happen and it was costing me strikes. Now I fish 80 and 100lb leader and haven’t lost a fish to abrasion since that aforementioned blue. I know I get more strikes as a result and when I get outgunned by a couple hundred kg fish one day I’ll wear it.

Pike could well be the least shy fish in Alberta but I suspect you’re still missing strikes because of the rope your tying your hook to. I wouldn’t know because I never fished a heavy line. Even on the west coast for salmon, halibut, ling etc. I only fished 30lb mono straight to the hook.


Now I’m also amazed I answered the fluro/crimp question and all anyone wants to criticise is my previous line choice. I’m not telling you what to do, just mentioning what I used to use. Perhaps someone will try lighter line and find they get more strikes, maybe not. Use the information as you choose.[/QUOTE]

Lol, you marginalized every serious Alberta angler's favorite excuse to rock a River Monsters rig, expect no mercy.

I've had them cut off 6 - 20 lb line, mono and braid, as well as had up to 80 lb flouro leader material in good condition cut off on a couple ocasions. I agree with you that worrying about maintaining full strength connections on 50 lb flouro is a little silly, but I also find that the crimps are one of the most comon failure points on store bought leaders ( and I generally only run 10-15 lb line), so I think some concern about the crimps is valid. One of the big reasons I currently favor single strand wire, or flouro leaders, is that my twists and knots are far more dependable than factory crimps.

[Coiloil37]

Lol, you marginalized every serious Alberta angler's favorite excuse to rock a River Monsters rig, expect no mercy.

I've had them cut off 6 - 20 lb line, mono and braid, as well as had up to 80 lb flouro leader material in good condition cut off on a couple ocasions. I agree with you that worrying about maintaining full strength connections on 50 lb flouro is a little silly, but I also find that the crimps are one of the most comon failure points on store bought leaders ( and I generally only run 10-15 lb line), so I think some concern about the crimps is valid. One of the big reasons I currently favor single strand wire, or flouro leaders, is that my twists and knots are far more dependable than factory crimps.[/QUOTE]





Lucky for me I don’t stress about what anyone else is doing or thinks about what I’m doing. It’s just part of my personality.
Doesn’t change the fact I fished my entire life in Alberta with 6lb line. Actually, as a small child my old man spooled me up with 8lb but I graduated to 6lb pretty quick. I know it can be done and I honestly can’t remember a bite off since I was a kid… and that’s not a knock on my memory.

That said, I 100% agree with you on factory crimps. I rarely buy store bought rigs but if I do the first order of business is to replace the crimps. Seems quality control in Asian sweat shops is hard to find…?


I run the odd rig over here with single strand for our mackerel or wahoo. They’ll sever 300lb mono without a single click from the reel or popping the rubber band in the outrigger clip. Their teeth are absolutely amazing. I don’t usually run any wire but if I do it’ll be like this.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230123/38ee66251d1003e1d415b81f04f5d6d9.jpg


That’s 86lb single strand. I tried 44lb but they cut it like mono. I’ve also dabbled with titanium and surflon. I prefer the short length of single strand but rarely need it. These fish hit the tail of the lure almost every time.




Now it’s time to load the boat. I’ve got marlin to catch tomorrow. After reading here from the landlocked, iced in big game fishermen it seems I do it wrong. Tomorrow I’m just going to follow them around until they surface then plant the tag in them. I’m still going with 30lb line though because I’m to scared to go down to 16lb like the rest of the club. They make fun of me but like I already mentioned, I don’t care.

[Bushleague]

You must have a lucky horse shoe up your behind, I've been cut off 3 times since Christmas. Twice using 10lb mono without a leader, and once using a leader made from 80lb flouro... but that leader was admittedly a little chewed up.

I also landed a 34" pike last week on 6lb mono, no leader and he took the hook deep. Lengthly fight but I got lucky, other times you hardly even feel the strike.

And yes, we all know your fishing experiences eclipse our own. Perhaps some of the ill will might be on account of the regular reminders? Anyhow I'm out.