Sheep Scouting Chopper

[ovis40]

A friend of mine was in the Ranger/Headwaters area sheep hunting. They were on horses and here comes a Chopper (not sure the make). This jerk comes with in 150 yards of them and gets the finger and leaves. Later when they are back to their camp the jerk lands. My friend tells the guy he likes his mode of transportaion but it dosen't do much for sheep hunting. The guy says " there aren't any sheep here anyways as I have put in over 20 hrs. flying looking for them". Then tells them he is from the Sundre area and he can be back to work in Calgary in no time. Just wondering if anyone else has come across this guy? I wouldn't think he is making to many friends!

[ram crazy]

I herd of something like this happening in WMU 400 a couple years ago. Not sure of the details though. My hunting buddy and I had this happen to us a few years back we were watching some Rams and this chopper flys over the ridge and he sees us then he flys above the Rams and hovers there and chases them out of the drainage. I was so mad that I didn't get number off the bottom of the chopper, but I did know the chopper sat at Dutch Creek landing pad. Try and prove it was that chopper though is impossible.

[redgreen]

A friend of mine was in the Ranger/Headwaters area sheep hunting. They were on horses and here comes a Chopper (not sure the make). This jerk comes with in 150 yards of them and gets the finger and leaves. Later when they are back to their camp the jerk lands. My friend tells the guy he likes his mode of transportaion but it dosen't do much for sheep hunting. The guy says " there aren't any sheep here anyways as I have put in over 20 hrs. flying looking for them". Then tells them he is from the Sundre area and he can be back to work in Calgary in no time. Just wondering if anyone else has come across this guy? I wouldn't think he is making to many friends!

Flying around scouting for animals is not only unethical but pretty dangerous for the pilot and any passengers. There has been one incident a few years ago by Nordegg where a commercial helicopter took a bullet while on a forestry job, luckily no one was injured.
This guy sounds like he is not a commercial operator and is certainly oblivious to common sense and regulations especially over the 400WMU's. I know all the Commercial operators in the area and they go out of their way to stay out of hunters/outfitters way, while still trying to run their business.
To my knowledge around Sundre there are three guys that own Robinson R44 hellicopters....one is an outfitter, one is a vet and the other runs a renovation window company in Calgary. Your friend should DEFINATELY report this to SRD in Nordegg and Sundre.

[Headdamage]

I've heard a number of stories about a high up forestry officer that aranges government helicopter time to coincide with his sheap hunting efforts. This was in the 90's but perhaps he is still at it.

[crazy_fool1]

man if they have money like that to burn, they shuold just get a guide

[blackmamba]

this year while sheep hunting in early september , I was in 404 and had a chopper come into the basin I was in and circle it twice and then buggered off over the ridge .. It was a blue and white striped .. it was also like an 6 or 8 seater . not your regular chopper thats for sure!!!

[jason crozier]

If this ever happens to anyone again, mark down the registration of the chopper and snap a picture if you can, it will go along way with Transport Canada stopping bullchit like that! you gotta get the registration at least.

[Rust]

Yep had one buzz me a few yrs back in nordegg then fly across the valley and circle the ewes that I was watching tell they took off. I was mad at myself for not taking a pic of him and the Registration #'s on it too. But you can be sure if this ever happens again I got my video cam with a 35X optical zoom and I WILL be taking footage and turing it in! I guess I was just so surprised at this taking a pic was the last thing on my mind.

[Rockymtnx]

I believe that scouting sheep from a chopper isn't the coolest thing out there to be doing. Just one thing though. Even if you do get the registration number off the chopper how do you prove they are doing anything wrong unless they are harassing wildlife or intentionally interfering with your hunt? I think it would be pretty tough to prove that it wasn't someone just out buzzing the mountains on a scenic tour.
Remember in Alberta it isn't illegal to spot from an aircraft. Its only illegal to go hunting 6 hours after doing so.

From the 2009 Regulations
"It is unlawful to hunt big game within 6 hours of having disembarked from an aircraft, except for a jet or turbo propelled aircraft."

If this ever happens to anyone again, mark down the registration of the chopper and snap a picture if you can, it will go along way with Transport Canada stopping bullchit like that!

Just one question. What is Transport Canada going to do about someone out flying a helicopter in the mountains?

[Rockymtnx]

Yep had one buzz me a few yrs back in nordegg then fly across the valley and circle the ewes that I was watching tell they took off. I was mad at myself for not taking a pic of him and the Registration #'s on it too. But you can be sure if this ever happens again I got my video cam with a 35X optical zoom and I WILL be taking footage and turing it in! I guess I was just so surprised at this taking a pic was the last thing on my mind.

You answered my question from my above post Rust. If you did have them harassing the wildlife on video camera its pretty hard to for them to deny that kind of proof.

[canadianbigbuck]

You have to get a registration if this ever happens again. The registration of the any aircraft operating in Canada always starts with C-G_ _ _ or C-F_ _ _.
If you get these other 3 letters you can go to the transport Canada website and under aviation you can search with the registration and it will have who the aircraft is registered too.
I did this last weekend of an airplane that buzzed me while i was bowhunting moose in 232. I figure they were out looking for elk or something. Makes it kind of unfair for the rest of us.

[ctd]

Any Canadian Registered Civilian aircraft will start with those letters. There are many American aircraft flying around also.

It is not illegal for them to be flying around (it is illegal if they are hunting under the guidleines). They may have a minimuim height they can fly other then that you can't really do much about them flying by you.
You can say they are harrassing you or what not or interferring with your hunt. They can say something to counteract what you said.

[canadianbigbuck]

Any Canadian Registered Civilian aircraft will start with those letters. There are many American aircraft flying around also.

It is not illegal for them to be flying around (it is illegal if they are hunting under the guidleines). They may have a minimuim height they can fly other then that you can't really do much about them flying by you.
You can say they are harrassing you or what not or interferring with your hunt. They can say something to counteract what you said.

I understand that there are american registered aircraft flying around Canada, but in the first post you'll read that ovis40 said his buddy gave the pilot the finger when he was 150 yards away, thats pretty close. And then landed in their camp later on. Thats really not flying "by" them in my opinion. I am assuming it is a Canadian registered A/C because he said he is from the Sundre area and can be to work back in Calgary anytime he wants.

[ovis40]

2X canadianbigbuck........... hovering 150 yards away from people mounted on horses is a bit more than passing by IMHO. Its 500 feet AGL for buildings but I'm not sure what it is for people, should be a no brainer.

[chopperman]

I am a helicopter pilot and I have been flying for 22 years. First I will say that the description of what happened at the start of the thread should be reported and as it was stated earlier get the registration off the aircraft and give it to F&W or the RCMP. Especially when the pilot admits he is scouting for sheep.
Now here's a perspective from my side...we get hired this fall out of Rocky Mtn. House to fly crews to several specific locations in the Rocky's to re-do panoramic photos to match the one's they took 30 or 40 years ago to see the differences with vegitation and terrain etc. So when we are flying looking for a location to land taking in wind conditions, up/down drafts, level landing spot etc. and a we do not notice a hunter on the next ridge or even perhaps the one we are landing on and honestly do not know they are there yet they feel we have flown all these miles to come there and intentionally screw up his or her hunt. I've had a couple of friends come back from flying with bullet holes in their helicopters, they were lucky that they were not killed as there are a lot of critical components on the aircraft. Use your heads guys we work during hunting season just like everyone else. If a truck comes into a field and messes up my hunt does that give me the right to shoot at it? NO of course not, if they are doing something illegal take down the licence # and report them, if it's a aircraft take down the registration.

[whitetailman]

u must have been hunting near hardist area for moose am i right? havent seen to many elk around the kinselle area lol

[canadianbigbuck]

u must have been hunting near hardist area for moose am i right? havent seen to many elk around the kinselle area lol

Whitetailman, i have been hunting moose south of Kinsella, well trying to hunt them, no luck yet though with bow.

And I agree with chopperman, all this should have been reported to RCMP and F&W, need to shut down people like this that think they can do anything they want. Shooting at the helicopter ain't going to do anything, other than put yourself in the slammer, and harm someone else's life. They don't fly well with bullet holes in them.
Every part is critical on helicopters, trust me i have been fixing them for a no. of years.
Just report these kind of activities, plain and simple.

[jason crozier]

[QUOTE=.


Just one question. What is Transport Canada going to do about someone out flying a helicopter in the mountains?[/QUOTE]


Transport Canada are the people responsible for issuing a pilots liscence and to enforce the rules when they get broke. i understand there is work that is being done in the mountains or along the rivers etc.. but when it;s blatently obvious what their doing, admitting to what their doign or chasing/harassing wildlife then it;s wrong and a picture or a video of the offense will go miles in the efforts to stop it. In no way shape or form do i think it;s right to do so and i ALSO do not think it;s proper for anyone to be flinging bullets at any flying machine, that's poor decision making like the poor bastard who shot the grizz.

[jason crozier]

another thing if it's an american aircraft it will have an "N" number with some digits and letters to follow like the canadian "CF" or "CG". the FAA inthe states would love to hear about that an American registered aircraft is doing wrong as well. Pictures and videos are worth 1000 words and possibly the only real way of provie instead of he the said/she said bull****.

[ALBTUFF]

I was pass shooting snow geese one time and as the flock was coming closer, I got down in the reeds, snow geese are now 150 yards and closing. Just then the sound of choppers behind me, tring not to flare the geese I slowly look to the rear to see 2 military choppers heading straight for my flock of snow geese. They flew right threw the middle of the flock about 70 yards from me and ruined my chance at a shot. I was mad!! I wanted to send some 3 1/2" 1's at them but the guy sitting behind the 50 cal. machine gun looked a little trigger happy.......:evilgrin:

[woods_walker]

It sounds like in this scenario, the guy was definitely out flying and trying to ruin some hunting and should be reported for doing so. There are situations though where guys are out flying doing legitimate work for forestry or seismic, and while it seems that they are ruining your hunt, they are not doing so intentionally.

I work in the forest industry and actually will be out in a couple of days doing some flying over several cutblocks in an area, doing low flying within the cutblock opening, and circling areas several times to get a good view of reforestation. Hopefully we do not interfere with someones hunt. I know it will not happen intentionally if it does, and I sure as heck hope that someone does not take a shot at us while we are trying to do our work.

You might ask why we would be flying around 'acting like jerks' ruining your hunt (and yes, some of the areas we are going to are used by outfitters), but hunting season also coincides with the time period where there are no leaves, a light skiff of snow to enhance what we are looking at, and we are best able to see what we are looking for.

Again, DO NOT SHOOT AT THE AIRCRAFT, get the registration number for the aircraft, and if you believe the activity of the aircraft is unlawful, report it. All flights should have a flight record with Transport Canada outlining their destinations, and in some instances, their planned activities. I would bet most times as well, a helicopter is actually being used for work. Not many guys are willing to spend several thousand bucks to ruin someones hunt intentionally. I know the respectable companies that I have flown with have respectable pilots, and they have denied flights to individuals/organizations with 'questionable' activities planned.

[steve]

There was a chopper flying up and down every drainage around us opening week of sheep season where I hunt. Very frustrating, since it took us 4 days of busting our balls and our horses to get to there, and he could still have warm Tim Hortons in his hand...

[pottymouth]

If an aircraft is purposly chasing wildlife, then get the registration off the aircraft and report it with fish and wildlife, and M.O.T. Shooting at the aircraft, i believe is chargable, perhaps attempted murder, that's not worth it!!!
Now if everyone is angry that a guy can afford to scout by chopper (which i'm sure doesn't work all that well) ,well that's life, some guys can afford chopper, some a guide, some have horse's. I don't see any problem with it as long as there is no Transport Canada regulations or wildlife regulations broken (no hunting within 6 hours after the flight), then , I think it would be fun .

[greg martineau]

Flying around scouting for animals is not only unethical but pretty dangerous for the pilot and any passengers. There has been one incident a few years ago by Nordegg where a commercial helicopter took a bullet while on a forestry job, luckily no one was injured.
This guy sounds like he is not a commercial operator and is certainly oblivious to common sense and regulations especially over the 400WMU's. I know all the Commercial operators in the area and they go out of their way to stay out of hunters/outfitters way, while still trying to run their business.
To my knowledge around Sundre there are three guys that own Robinson R44 hellicopters....one is an outfitter, one is a vet and the other runs a renovation window company in Calgary. Your friend should DEFINATELY report this to SRD in Nordegg and Sundre.

I am the pilot of the helicopter in this escapade. Let me fill you in on the true side of the issue. I was asked by some friends and neighbors in the Sundre area to assist in finding six of therir horses that were chased off in the night up at Ranger Creek. It took two days to find three of them, two in the Ranger Creek area and one on the west end of the South Ram and we still are looking for three more. Many of the hunters were aware of what we where doing because we had upto 6 riders and myself and two passengers looking from the air for at least three weeks. The Fish cops were part of the search and had many meetings with us on the ground for updates and also issued quad permits for the search.

This is one month later, one horse is hobbled, one has a halter on and shank dangling and one is free of anything.
The three horses belong to nieghbors, friends and sheep hunters, Steven Turner, Jim Turner, Jason Parker.

I would like to clarify the story about landing and talking to the orignal hunter who posted this story.

I was asked to fly upto Ranger Creek where the camp was still in place from this hunting misfortune. Everything was still there because the guys had to walk out which took 18 hours. They asked me if I could pick up their saddles.

That is what I was doing when I landed near this particular gentleman. When I was flying in I had to make a couple of passes to find the winds. On my last pass I noticed two riders on the trail right below me that had just come out of the tress and I didn't have time to veer off, I noticed one riders horse jump a little but that was it. I continued and landed at the camp which was a couple of hundred yards away and many tree seperated us.

I landed and shut down and waited for the riders which I new were heading my way. I immediatly apoligized for almost getting him thrown and explained that I was up there searching for the missing horses and picking up saddles. They said (there were two of them) they new about the horses and that someone came up earlier and grabbed the saddles with quads. He asked me if I had seen any sheep? I said I was looking for horses not sheep and that I had been helping out for over 20 hours now and had not seen horses or sheep. I wouldn't have told him if I had seen sheep!

We had what I thought was a nice conversation about the area, the horses etc. a couple of other hunters came up the trail and joined in on the conversation, they knew of the missing horses as well. I said I had to be on my way and that I was heading back to Calgary. They said can you bring us back some pizza. We laughed I told them I would wait to start up when they are a lot farther away and thats what I did.

I am insulted that this story has taken this twist, since I am sure if any of you had this happen to you, a free helicopter would fit your needs.

I was up in the area this morning again still looking, I had with me a well know hunter in the Sundre area, Tom Parker. We still have found them but all of us are continuing our search from the ground and the air.

I apologize to those that I have offended, I didn't mean to ruin your hunt, it is unfortunate what has happenned here. I am not a hunter but I appreciate what you guys go through to get your sheep. I also have feeling for lost horses that are hobbled or possibly snagged. My name is Greg Martineau I live in the Sundre area, I consider myself and ethical pilot, my phone number is 403-638-5124 if you need to discuss this with me.

We are trying to take the search south east into the Clearwater area since we have come up with nothing on Ranger Creek, South Ram, Himmingbird and Onion lake area.

Again Sorry.

[pdfish]

Thanks Greg for coming on and clearing things up. Its funny how stories can get twisted around coming from a third party. See any elk? :evilgrin:

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE Again Sorry [/QUOTE]

Doesn't sound like you need to be the one apologizing. Good on you for your efforts in helping out with what sounds like a pretty lousy situation.

tm

ps: welcome to the board :wave: Some of the guys get their internet muscles going pretty quickly.....but the wit usually wins out in the end. Hang around....pretty much a good group on here.

[Albertadiver]

Thanks for the clarification Greg, sounds like you've gone above and beyond quite literally to help find these horses.

[Tundra Monkey]

yah gotta change your "handle" though.

How about "chopperstalker" :evilgrin:

or

"warmtimmies" :D

\tm

[Rockymtnx]

Hi Greg
Thanks for clarifying the story for all of us. People have to remember there is always two sides to a story. After reading your side it almost seems a little more believable. Good luck in your search for the horses. Hey if you ever need another spotter in your chopper let me know.

Dan

[Grizzly Adams]

I am the pilot of the helicopter in this escapade. Let me fill you in on the true side of the issue. I was asked by some friends and neighbors in the Sundre area to assist in finding six of therir horses that were chased off in the night up at Ranger Creek. It took two days to find three of them, two in the Ranger Creek area and one on the west end of the South Ram and we still are looking for three more. Many of the hunters were aware of what we where doing because we had upto 6 riders and myself and two passengers looking from the air for at least three weeks. The Fish cops were part of the search and had many meetings with us on the ground for updates and also issued quad permits for the search.

This is one month later, one horse is hobbled, one has a halter on and shank dangling and one is free of anything.
The three horses belong to nieghbors, friends and sheep hunters, Steven Turner, Jim Turner, Jason Parker.

I would like to clarify the story about landing and talking to the orignal hunter who posted this story.

I was asked to fly upto Ranger Creek where the camp was still in place from this hunting misfortune. Everything was still there because the guys had to walk out which took 18 hours. They asked me if I could pick up their saddles.

That is what I was doing when I landed near this particular gentleman. When I was flying in I had to make a couple of passes to find the winds. On my last pass I noticed two riders on the trail right below me that had just come out of the tress and I didn't have time to veer off, I noticed one riders horse jump a little but that was it. I continued and landed at the camp which was a couple of hundred yards away and many tree seperated us.

I landed and shut down and waited for the riders which I new were heading my way. I immediatly apoligized for almost getting him thrown and explained that I was up there searching for the missing horses and picking up saddles. They said (there were two of them) they new about the horses and that someone came up earlier and grabbed the saddles with quads. He asked me if I had seen any sheep? I said I was looking for horses not sheep and that I had been helping out for over 20 hours now and had not seen horses or sheep. I wouldn't have told him if I had seen sheep!

We had what I thought was a nice conversation about the area, the horses etc. a couple of other hunters came up the trail and joined in on the conversation, they knew of the missing horses as well. I said I had to be on my way and that I was heading back to Calgary. They said can you bring us back some pizza. We laughed I told them I would wait to start up when they are a lot farther away and thats what I did.

I am insulted that this story has taken this twist, since I am sure if any of you had this happen to you, a free helicopter would fit your needs.

I was up in the area this morning again still looking, I had with me a well know hunter in the Sundre area, Tom Parker. We still have found them but all of us are continuing our search from the ground and the air.

I apologize to those that I have offended, I didn't mean to ruin your hunt, it is unfortunate what has happenned here. I am not a hunter but I appreciate what you guys go through to get your sheep. I also have feeling for lost horses that are hobbled or possibly snagged. My name is Greg Martineau I live in the Sundre area, I consider myself and ethical pilot, my phone number is 403-638-5124 if you need to discuss this with me.

We are trying to take the search south east into the Clearwater area since we have come up with nothing on Ranger Creek, South Ram, Himmingbird and Onion lake area.

Again Sorry.

You install windows in your spare time?:lol: Did you check out the horse Sheepguide found nesr Swan Lake ?
Grizz

[crazy_davey]

Thanks for clearing that up greg martineau. I heard your very story from a very close friend of Jim Turners who was helping look as well.

Funny how stories get twisted up.

[PoppaW]

Well now that thats cleared up. I worked for an older guy who used to work alot with F&W back in the day and he had stories of F&W renting choppers to spook off the sheep if there was to many in easy to get places. He had so many stories that it was hard to think he was making it up. He was close friends with a lot of them. Just sayin maybe the choppers you turn in will have fish cops in them. Maybe just doin surveys of sheep, yah surveys thats it.:evilgrin:

[steve]

I think the F&W would spook sheep back to safer areas, rather than have another "Cheviot Shootout" any day..

[greg martineau]

Do you know this guides name by any chance. I will send some of the fellows up there, but if you or anybody else knows please let me know. I appreciate the information.