Thinking about Alberta Politics

[Okotokian]

Note: This is NOT to push any party or position.

I was sitting thinking today about whether to keep supporting the Tories or look elsewhere. Then a thought hit me which sort of freaked me out... This is Alberta... if we elect a new government we will be stuck with it for the next 40 years! :lol::sick::scared: I'm 52. If we elect a new party to lead us they will likely still be in power when I die! We had better choose very carefully.

I'd laugh if it weren't so sad.

[Orion]

Note: This is NOT to push any party or position.

I was sitting thinking today about whether to keep supporting the Tories or look elsewhere. Then a thought hit me which sort of freaked me out... This is Alberta... if we elect a new government we will be stuck with it for the next 40 years! :lol::sick::scared: I'm 52. If we elect a new party to lead us they will likely still be in power when I die! We had better choose very carefully.

I'd laugh if it weren't so sad.

Yeah you're right.
To put it in perspective, I'll be 49 next month. The Tories have been in power since I was 10. :ashamed:

Long past time for a change.

[Dick284]

We don't elect Premier's in Alberta.
It's almost like a Coronation of sorts.

[Kanonfodder]

Unfortunately apathy by voters is what keeps one party in power. I paid my dues and am now a member of the Wildrose Alliance...time for a change

[TreeGuy]

Governing parties become lazy without a credible opposition party that has the potential to possibly unseat them. That is what Alberta has lacked. I too have, and will be supporting the WRA. It's time to restore some democracy here.

Tree

[mulecrazy]

Like most on here, I am fed up with the government we have. I started researching the WRA and liberals. I tried to keep an open mind with the liberals. Remember, they are not the federal liberal party who look after ont and que. I was pretty dissapointed with the WRA plan, or lack therof. They give no explanations about their "plans" they give a couple bullet points and thats about it. It sounds like they want more health care cutbacks which is rediculous IMO. I did however like the liberals plan for the province. They had some great ideas for dealing with energy companies and royalties. Their plan to build more hospitals and hire more nurses is very promising. I know Rocky's hospital is falling apart with leaking roof panels and is dangerously under staffed and over crowded. With all the baby boomers hitting retirement age we are going to need more hospital beds and not less.

[maxpower2506]

The bad part is, I think we are being watered down with LIBERAL CRAP Wild rose alliance seems to be the only light on the horizon

[mulecrazy]

The bad part is, I think we are being watered down with LIBERAL CRAP Wild rose alliance seems to be the only light on the horizon

what liberal crap? The Alberta liberal party is not the same as the federals. Don't judge a book by its cover, look past the name. If anything I think the WRA is the crap party. They have no plan and just spout off their mouths when they couldn't do any better IMO. I want a party that has a plan to govern. Maybe in a few years the WRA may have some good Ideas, but for now they are a right wing seperatist minded party. We have to be able to work with the country to be successful, not drive a wedge between us.

[hal53]

Like most on here, I am fed up with the government we have. I started researching the WRA and liberals. I tried to keep an open mind with the liberals. Remember, they are not the federal liberal party who look after ont and que. I was pretty dissapointed with the WRA plan, or lack therof. They give no explanations about their "plans" they give a couple bullet points and thats about it. It sounds like they want more health care cutbacks which is rediculous IMO. I did however like the liberals plan for the province. They had some great ideas for dealing with energy companies and royalties. Their plan to build more hospitals and hire more nurses is very promising. I know Rocky's hospital is falling apart with leaking roof panels and is dangerously under staffed and over crowded. With all the baby boomers hitting retirement age we are going to need more hospital beds and not less.
Do you really know the difference between Liberal and Conservative????...don't mean the party...I mean their platform ..or lack there of...the federal/prov. thing is a dog that won't hunt in this province, I agree the WRA has some work to do..but they seem like a viable alternative at this time, obviously you weren't here in the early 80's, when this province was brought to it's knees by the Liberals NEP, enjoy your stay!!

[mulecrazy]

Do you really know the difference between Liberal and Conservative????...don't mean the party...I mean their platform ..or lack there of...the federal/prov. thing is a dog that won't hunt in this province, I agree the WRA has some work to do..but they seem like a viable alternative at this time, obviously you weren't here in the early 80's, when this province was brought to it's knees by the Liberals NEP, enjoy your stay!!

Do you know the difference? I have looked at the liberal platform, and really like their plan. The conservatives just want cutbacks after cutbacks. They are destroying out health care system and pushed oil companies out of the province which cost us millions in new projects. Ed did not create the recession, but when rigs are moving to BC and Sask to continue drilling I have a problem with that.

[hal53]

Do you know the difference? I have looked at the liberal platform, and really like their plan. The conservatives just want cutbacks after cutbacks. They are destroying out health care system and pushed oil companies out of the province which cost us millions in new projects. Ed did not create the recession, but when rigs are moving to BC and Sask to continue drilling I have a problem with that.
Easy to sit in the stands with a bag of popcorn in your hand and play the game....wasn't the PC's who wanted the royalty review, Taft and Wide mouth Mason whined enough...and dickwad Eddie wanted a huge majority ..so he folded like a cheap suit, set up a commission, with the former head of Epcor (like they don't know how to charge), because everyone was told by the Lib's & NDP that now they would get their "fair share" with another cheque...people are so stupid!!!...they all laughed and giggled and said "where are they gonna go??..we have the oil!!! hahahahaha ...well.. look East... and enjoy yourself...oh BTW...the Libs want to shut down the oilsands...for votes.... seen any CO2 emissions lately from Al Gore's house...MAN!!!!!!!

[mulecrazy]

Easy to sit in the stands with a bag of popcorn in your hand and play the game....wasn't the PC's who wanted the royalty review, Taft and Wide mouth Mason whined enough...and dickwad Eddie wanted a huge majority ..so he folded like a cheap suit, set up a commission, with the former head of Epcor (like they don't know how to charge), because everyone was told by the Lib's & NDP that now they would get their "fair share" with another cheque...people are so stupid!!!...they all laughed and giggled and said "where are they gonna go??..we have the oil!!! hahahahaha ...well.. look East... and enjoy yourself...oh BTW...the Libs want to shut down the oilsands...for votes.... seen any CO2 emissions lately from Al Gore's house...MAN!!!!!!!

WOW that was some hard-core ramblings.... lol. Not sure what the heck a lot of it means, but I guess in your mind it makes sense. Oh, BTW the liberals do not want to shut down the oilsands, they want to expand them...lol.Here is a quote off their energy plan.

"Unleash “the Western Tiger” by encouraging the building of bitumen upgraders in Alberta and elsewhere in Western Canada, to keep economic benefits on our side of the Canadian border."

http://www.albertaliberal.com/index.php/alp/policies_index

Here is a link to their full plan for alberta.

grab that popcorn and enjoy a good read:wave:

[mulecrazy]

by contrast, here is the "plan" for the WRA.

http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/home/our-vision-for-alberta

pretty vague

[blackpheasant]

I you like the idea of Lower Taxes, Smaller Government, an Alberta Pension Plan, a stronger Alberta within Canada etc. etc. then the WRA is going to be your choice, they are a young grassroots conservitive party that want to reform our government why not give them a shot, if you want Higher Taxes, Big Government and lot's of Bureaucracy then the ruling PC's or a Liberal party would foot that bill...

[gitrdun]

what liberal crap? The Alberta liberal party is not the same as the federals. Don't judge a book by its cover, look past the name. If anything I think the WRA is the crap party. They have no plan and just spout off their mouths when they couldn't do any better IMO. I want a party that has a plan to govern. Maybe in a few years the WRA may have some good Ideas, but for now they are a right wing seperatist minded party. We have to be able to work with the country to be successful, not drive a wedge between us.

Yes, I'll go with that, right now, no....immediately and even more right if it were up to me.

[Bushrat]

I think we should seperate and make Quebec pay for it!:lol:

[Joe Fehr]

Right now anything would be better the steady to the poorhouse Eddie. Most people are so dead against the Liberals but don't know anything about them except what the Federal party has done. King Ralph sure helped the province by getting us out of debt when eveything was booming, but has anyone noticed the "rainy day" fund hasn't been heard of since Steady Eddie took over.

I am sure it has dwindled away to nothing in the 2 years of recession (6-8 months created by Stelmach) Mind you they did give back 10% of their 30% wage increases :rolleye2:

Some thing has to change and soon. Not sure where it should go but hopefully it will be out of the gutter we are currently stuck in.

[mulecrazy]

Right now anything would be better the steady to the poorhouse Eddie. Most people are so dead against the Liberals but don't know anything about them except what the Federal party has done. King Ralph sure helped the province by getting us out of debt when eveything was booming, but has anyone noticed the "rainy day" fund hasn't been heard of since Steady Eddie took over.

I am sure it has dwindled away to nothing in the 2 years of recession (6-8 months created by Stelmach) Mind you they did give back 10% of their 30% wage increases :rolleye2:

Some thing has to change and soon. Not sure where it should go but hopefully it will be out of the gutter we are currently stuck in.

lol, gotta agree with that. Except they didn't give back 10% of their increase. They gave back 10% of a portion. Overall, it works out to about 3% of the total raise.

[fat cat]

Any chance we could hire RALPH the KING monthly until it is all sorted out????

[moosemad]

It's scarry to see what the Liberals have done to this country in the last few years in power. Provincial politics is just that, they still listen somewhat to the overall grand pooh bah in Ottawa (Quebec). The only reason I voted PC was to let the rest of the country know it's time for a change. Problem being there are not enough choices to make, I do support the WRA now but what if Alberta is the only province to have them in power, they won't be able to do what we are looking for. We need a party thats nation wide to really make a difference.

[Matt L.]

When people mention the Liberal party here in Ab, my reaction is, who? The Libs are so silent on just about everything that they're pretty much a non-entity. As for Mason and his crew...:rolleye2:. That's why we've had the same party for so long here; there's really no viable choice. All we have to do is look left and right to see what the left-wing parties have the potential to do.

[rugatika]

The new liberal leader in the province of Alberta is one David Swann. Check out his bio etc. The guy makes Jack Layton look like Ronald Reagan with a cheesy moustache. Big into social issues, global peace, anti-war demonstrator, pesticide free parks, etc etc. Just another urban elitist that would like nothing better than to tell the rest of us how to live. No thanks. I actually had more respect for Kevin Taft (and that wasn't a whole bunch).

The WRA, may lack a fully filled out policy book, but the reputation of their new leader as a steadfast conservative ( a real conservative not a liberal with a PC monogram) libertarian type that understands economics and the power of capitalism. Plus she seems willing to leave the typical conservative social issues alone that have always dogged the neo-cons...(abortion, gay marriage etc).

Besides...I took a solemn vow to never, ever vote Liberal. And I never will. No matter what they say prior to an election you can guarantee that they are lying and are already making plans to divy up our taxes amongst their buddies as well as figuring out new ways to tax us and intrude into our lives.

Alberta had a golden opportunity to attract all manner of business and professionals when we were raking in the dough. They could have eliminated personal income tax (the provincial portion) or cut all taxes, and successful people would have flooded into the province. Instead the PC's chose to TRY and increase revenue by increasing royalties so they could play Santa Claus and dole out the tax money as they saw fit. Too bad. That's what happens when you have people that are ignorant of economics and human behaviour running the show.

[rugatika]

what liberal crap? The Alberta liberal party is not the same as the federals. Don't judge a book by its cover, look past the name. If anything I think the WRA is the crap party. They have no plan and just spout off their mouths when they couldn't do any better IMO. I want a party that has a plan to govern. Maybe in a few years the WRA may have some good Ideas, but for now they are a right wing seperatist minded party. We have to be able to work with the country to be successful, not drive a wedge between us.

The wedge thingy seems to have worked wonders for Quebec over the years. They have raked in tons of federal (ie: Alberta and Ontario) dough.

Not sure where the WRA mentions separation. But then it's not a bad club to have in your bag either...as evidenced by Quebec.

That working WITH the country stuff only works if everyone wants to work with you...otherwise...you're just doing all the heavy lifting while the rest are sipping wine and eating cheese.

[blackpheasant]

Nicely said Ruug, If this Liberal party in Alberta really wanted to seperate themselves from there Federal cousins then why didn't they change the name of there party, Hmmmm I guess they like that Liberal Brand...

[fish-man]

Not sure whom I would support yet, but it won't be the Tories. The cuts to social services for kids (ie AB hospital) not only screwed over a bunch of youth at risk, it also cost me a job... not impressed.

[ctd]

The only true way to cut taxes is to go to a full user pay system. Which will leave the Majority of Albertans out of almost every public user system we have now. That includes hospitals, public transit, parks and recreation, schools, sports, and the list goes on for what is publiclly funded.

Every party has to build a platform on which they have to degrade what the opposition stands for, but in reality no Party in Alberta is going to change our economy around with out changing the worlds economy. We rely heavily on Oil, Gas and Farming to provide for our province. These three things rely on the worlds economy.
The abilty to provide more schools, teachers, doctors, nurses and hospitals comes with a very hefty price tag. To be honest with you we don't have the abililty to provide this at this time even if we had the money. The simple fact is Skilled proffesions are still in short supply.

Ralph Klein said he would not build more infrastructure unless we could sustain it. So he turned away from it because he new we can't in the long run or even in the short turn.

I do think that we need to better spend what money we have now. In order to do that we are going to have to make some major cuts in the short term. That is going to mean job losses, shut downs etc. But once we go through the pains we would emerge a better Province. But in order to get there we need to really want the change.
We have lots of money right now to maintain what we have and to impprove on what we have. Yet somehow it seems to get wasted, this will happen no matter who is in power with out present structure in place.

If you cut all the politicians out of the picture and let the hospitals and schools run themselves we would be so far in debt we would not be able to get out. People take advantage of what they have even when they cry they don't have any money. They still don't cut back on their luxerys.

A complete overhaul of the system has to take place, that includes from the Premier all the way down to up in comming Tax Payer.

[S.A.S]

Yes, I'll go with that, right now, no....immediately and even more right if it were up to me.

Cue the Bruce Springsteen..."Glory Days woahhhhhh yaaaaa Ohhhhhh Glory Days" . I could catch the bubonic plague and Id still die a happy man if Alberta seperated and went far right! :D Sorry eastern canada no more equalization cheques, No more billion $ bailouts for Ontario on the backs of Alberta tax $. :lol: Man can I dream!

[Gray Wolf]

" . . . Maybe in a few years the WRA may have some good Ideas, but for now they are a right wing seperatist minded party . . . "




:huh::confused:...Mule ... you lost us on that ^ one!

I just spent a couple of hours going over the info on the Wildrose Alliance website. And I also spent over half an hour watching Peter Mansbridge's recent interveiw with Danielle Smith (WA Leader). The 'S' word is never mentioned, and I couldn't even find a 'hint' of the concept of separation.

http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/
http://www.cbc.ca/video/popup.html?http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/oneonone/2009-11-01.wmv
Mule, please clarify your statement.

GW

[rugatika]

Wow..she did a great job answering the questions that creepy old commie was asking her.

I think she is one of the smartest and most well spoken people I've heard talk in quite a while. Here's hoping they have a big sweep next election...can't come soon enough.

PS: Does it not seem kinda fem/creepy when a guy sits with his legs crossed like that old Mansbridge dude does??

[mulecrazy]

:huh::confused:...Mule ... you lost us on that ^ one!

I just spent a couple of hours going over the info on the Wildrose Alliance website. And I also spent over half an hour watching Peter Mansbridge's recent interveiw with Danielle Smith (WA Leader). The 'S' word is never mentioned, and I couldn't even find a 'hint' of the concept of separation.

http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/
http://www.cbc.ca/video/popup.html?http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/oneonone/2009-11-01.wmv
Mule, please clarify your statement.

GW



As far as I understand part of the alliance was the old alberta seperatist party. If part of the alliance has seperatist roots I would be hard pressed to believe it is not part of their agenda is some respect. I may be wrong but that is how I have had it explained.

[TreeGuy]

PS: Does it not seem kinda fem/creepy when a guy sits with his legs crossed like that old Mansbridge dude does??

He sits like that ever since Wendy Mesley wore him out and then left him........took his hair too!:lol:

Tree

[Okotokian]

Easy to sit in the stands with a bag of popcorn in your hand and play the game....wasn't the PC's who wanted the royalty review, Taft and Wide mouth Mason whined enough...

:lol::lol::lol:

Ok ok, I'm back in my chair now... c'mon hal, what you are telling me is that two parties with a handful of members and no significant public support forced a party with an overwhelming mandate and number of seats to bring in legislation they really really didn't want. Really, that's what you're saying? The Liberals and NDP really have that much clout that all those PC members just said "wow, we had better do what they tell us."

:lol::lol:

oh crap, I fell off my chair laughing again.

BTW I support the royalty review change. Sorry, I'm not in favour of oil companies dictating public policy and how much they will pay for our resource. This is probably the main issue that scares my about the Wild Rose Alliance... who will be telling who what to do?

[Okotokian]

I could catch the bubonic plague and Id still die a happy man if Alberta seperated and went far right! !

Yes, we know how far right you would like to take it.

[Okotokian]

Nicely said Ruug, If this Liberal party in Alberta really wanted to seperate themselves from there Federal cousins then why didn't they change the name of there party, Hmmmm I guess they like that Liberal Brand...

oh come on Black... if they changed their name you would accuse them of evasion and trying to hide their true colors. The name fits because they ARE liberal, more to the left than the conservatives, or at least where the conservatives profess to be. I think they take as many orders from Michael Ignatief and the federal liberals as Stelmach does from Stephen Harper, which is to say, not many.

Personally, I was willing to give the Liberals a chance when Laurence Decore led the party. Too bad he died. Seemed a like a good and reasonable man.

[rugatika]

Just 'cause I like pickin on you Oko...Conservative party of Canada is a different name than Progressive Conservative party here in Alberta. :wave:

[MikeSpike]

Anybody remember Grant Mitchell. He was the leader of the Alberta Liberal party for a while. One of his biggest ideas, was to appeal the law that does not allow prisioners to vote in elections. This scumbag was digging in the gutter for his votes.

The federal liberals and the provincial liberals are interconnected - I can't remember the exact players, but do remember some federal liberals coming to alberta to try and boost provinical liberals and garner votes. I was incensed that they interfered provincially and made note that they are one and the same.

Need some proof - guess who Paul Martin appointed to the Senate - yep - good old Grant Mitchell who has done so Fn much for his country and his province. Not connected, not one and the same,....get your head out of the sand and don't be so niave.

[blackpheasant]

oh come on Black... if they changed their name you would accuse them of evasion and trying to hide their true colors. The name fits because they ARE liberal, more to the left than the conservatives, or at least where the conservatives profess to be. I think they take as many orders from Michael Ignatief and the federal liberals as Stelmach does from Stephen Harper, which is to say, not many.

Personally, I was willing to give the Liberals a chance when Laurence Decore led the party. Too bad he died. Seemed a like a good and reasonable man.

Wouldn't have mattered what I thought, when they changed leadership to there current guy there was some talk of them doing a name change and really what did they have to loose, I think a name change perhaps would have given them a fresh start with a fresh leader but Liberals are a stubborn lot and think that everyone should just naturally love them...