Would you carry a rifle in bear country?

[M14Hunter]

I do alot of montane and forest hiking. Last week end I was in Kananaskis Country in heavy bush. I came upon a tree that was recently mauled by a bear. I have seen fresh bear scat and have heard heavy crashing through the bush at about 50 yards. Although I could not identify the animal. I guess it's a matter of time, before I come face -to-face with a black bear or God forbid a Grizz. A guy would feel better packing a .44 Magnum, but since the Liberal Commie pinko government :mad2: decided we can't pack a heater in the bush. I'm thinking of taking my m14. Am I asking for trouble with the Wildlife guys? What do you think?

[altaberg]

dunno about hiking with a gun in Kannanaskis, you may have to talk to the law about that one.

I have taken guns for bears in the north and places in BC. Never needed it.
My favourite advice what to carry I got from a biologist a few years back.
This is the recommendation:

12 gauge pump action, 1st shell BB, 2nd shell 00 Buck, 3rd slug, 4th 00 Buck, 5th another slug. 12 gauge would be pretty devastating at the range you'd be worried.

[The Moose Whisperer]

I'm not sure what the story would be re: carrying a gun for hiking in K-Country, but if you look into it let us know b/c I'd be interested in the response from F&W or RCMP or whomever has jurisdiction over such things.

As for carrying a gun generally when hiking, I do all the time. I came across a comment on another board one time on this subject, which I thought was very well put. The gist of it was when you run into a Grizz in the woods without a gun you wonder what the Grizz is going to do; when you run into a Grizz in the woods with a gun you wonder what you are going to do, neither is a comfortable situation to be in, but the later is far more preferable.

With respect to what gun to carry, as mentioned a 12 guage is a good close in defence gun (though I would lean toward 00, slug, slug, slug, slug), but since I have a short barrel (18.5") .45-70 lever action, that is what I carry.

[ElDiablo]

In my eyes, a "bear gun" is essentially useless. By the time a need for a "bear gun" arises for real, you shouldn't really have time to use it anyway. A gun is only really neccessary in a life or death situation. It's not a "life or death situation" until you've been hit. If you can get a shot off after you've been "hit", you're a better man than I....... otherwise, you just poached a bear.....unless you have a valid tag...... then you're bear hunting :innocent: ....... or your Metis and you can kill whatever you want anyway :lol:

[Kutenay]

I have carried a number of Grizzly guns when working solo or running crews in the bush in BC/AB; I have never had to kill a bear, have stood there as others did and have come very close a number of times. There is more BS about this on 'net forums than any other topic I can think of and my opinions are pretty firm; YES, an appropriate gun with proper loads IS useful in many, if not most Grizzly situations, IF, you can really use it well.

I do NOT use buckshot or Foster-style soft slugs as they will NOT penetrate a Grizzly or even a large Blackie; I have used several Remington 870s, a Win. 97 chopped in my dad's plumbing shop and now a Benelli Nova pump with BRENNEKE slugs ONLY. I have SEEN what happens when a soft Foster slugs hits a large Blackie in the chest and will NOT use anything other then Brennekes.

I have also used hunting rifles, but, primarily .375 H&H-300-NPs, several different ones and am now finishing up a 20" bbléd. P-64 Mod. 70 with a Classic sts. tube, good irons, Leupy 2.5xCMHD scope and Micky stock in that chambering, my idea of the ideal tool for the job. I carry my bear guns in a Kifaru Gunbearer on all of my packs.

I also have both a Marlin 1895-'70s issue and Browning 1886 SRC in .45-70, with Wild West and XS ghost rings/posts respectively. I have Decelerators on these and load Bullet Barn 405HC, Swift AF 400s and Kodiak 405 BC bullets in them. I chrono'd them two days ago at an average 2000 fps-mv for all loads and these light rifles KICK with such performance.

They are about as light/easy to carry as you can get in a truely capable Grizzly gun,BUT, require continual practice to stay efficient with them due to the substantial recoil, worse than my hot-loaded .338s of .375s, to me, anyway. BUT, they WILL do the job and having a gun like this when you are solo deep in the bush is a lot better than not having it as experience has taught me.

Get ONE bear gun that YOU are totally familiar with, use a good load and practice with it frequently. I much prefer to carry now, but, leave my Redhawk 5.5 .44 Mag. in the safe as NO handgun is as good as a .45-70 and they are hard to REALLY shoot well under stress. A good short .30-06-200 NP is a fine palce to start for a bear buster.

[Dick284]

Not being too intimate with K Country, and cant talk to authoratatively about it, but this I know for sure.
K Country has lots of park land and even if you are outside the park land and know where you are and are'nt supposed to be with a firearm. I supect many of the non firearms folks don't know, and therefore expect a lot of those people will be calling some sort of Law Enforcement types about you.
By carrying a M14 your just gonna exasperate the situation to the point where you will most likely be having to proove your inosence because most Law Enforcement types have no clue what the firearms laws are about.
Your asking to get one heck of a rough ride trying this even if you are legally in the right. (I don't like the laws and do gooders either)
Perhaps a more traditional type of bear defense weapon is in order, not to mention more politically correct types of bear defence equiptment.

[Ray]

CO: Why are you carrying a shotgun?

Me: Rabbit hunting.

CO: With slugs?

Me: Trophy rabbits.:innocent:

[Dick284]

You know there was a thread on CGN about a guy toting his M 14 on his back while riding his motorcycle on the west cost while coming back from shooting.
He broke no laws but had a pretty rough ride from the LE types.
If someone can paste in a link it might help. CGN is blocked on my work computer.

[Rackmastr]

In my eyes, a "bear gun" is essentially useless. By the time a need for a "bear gun" arises for real, you shouldn't really have time to use it anyway. A gun is only really neccessary in a life or death situation. It's not a "life or death situation" until you've been hit. If you can get a shot off after you've been "hit", you're a better man than I....... otherwise, you just poached a bear.....unless you have a valid tag...... then you're bear hunting :innocent: ....... or your Metis and you can kill whatever you want anyway :lol:

I wouldnt wait until the bear 'hits' me....or its lights out. I'd wait until I knew my life was in danger.....

I personally dont carry a firearm much when I'm not hunting and in the mountains or the bush. I've never worried a PILE about beasr and have done well, though its not a bad idea at all....

In K-Country, I'd carry a can of pepper spray and you'd run into a HECK of a lot less problems. As stated, carrying an m14 in K-Country could be asking for problems, even if no laws were broken......

[Grizzly Adams]

I think by packing the M-14, you'd be asking for trouble, even if it aint illegal. It's probably as close to an "Assault Rifle" as most tree huggers can imagine and they'd be pedalling to the ranger stations, as fast as their legs coud pedal them. That is, if a bear didn't get them on the way:D
Furthermore, the damn thing is too long and awkward to be the sort of thing I would pack. I carry a .303, #4, with iron sights [you can't beat that peep], sawed off to the minimun legal limit. It also legally lets me carry 10 rounds. Gets me a few looks at times, but I know my rights.
Grizz

[GoonBag]

I do a lot of hiking in K Country, as well and you can definately pack a rifle or shotty there as long as you aren't in any provincial parks or campgrounds. I've done in many, many different times and never ran into any problems whatsoever. However, packing a loaded 12 gauge when hiking up a steep hillside can get really heavy real fast so I've downgraded to a can of bear spray.

[sheephunter]

M14...I've come face to face with dozens if not hundreds of grizzly bears in K-Country over the past 20 years without a problem. Your brain is your most effective weapon. Use it and you shouldn't have any issues.

[Rackmastr]

M14...I've come face to face with dozens if not hundreds of grizzly bears in K-Country over the past 20 years without a problem. Your brain is your most effective weapon. Use it and you shouldn't have any issues.

+1....and it doesnt hurt to go hiking with a slow anti-hunter to use as bait.....:lol:

[Dick284]

M14...I've come face to face with dozens if not hundreds of grizzly bears in K-Country over the past 20 years without a problem. Your brain is your most effective weapon. Use it and you shouldn't have any issues.


Who hoo, some ones got the magic recipie.:innocent:

Same goes for, driving, working, playing.....
Wait a minute, I see a trend.
If you actually use what god gave you beetwiks your ears most problem are easily solved.
What a novel concept.

[Rackmastr]

TJ,
I'm just waitnig for someone to jump all over ya and tell you that your brain is actually NOT the best weapon. They'll ramble on about ethics, ballistics, ft/lbs, experience, knowledge, and how much their opinion is better than yours....haha.
Its only a matter of time for someone to challenge ya on the 'brain being the best weapon' comment.....I can feel it coming....heh

[sheephunter]

You haven't driven the Deerfoot on a motorcycle lately have you Dick? Definitely a lot of bear bait driving cars there......:lol:

[albertadave]

A gun is only really neccessary in a life or death situation. It's not a "life or death situation" until you've been hit. If you can get a shot off after you've been "hit", you're a better man than I....... otherwise, you just poached a bear

Here's an analogy: So the crack head I just surprised in my living room stealing my TV at 3 in the morning turns around and starts coming at me with a knife. I shoot him when he's 5 feet away I'm a murderer, if I wait till he stabs me and then shoot him it's self defence??? Sorry, but I don't agree with your statement. If that bear is coming at me he's getting a mouth full of lead before he "hits" me. I'm not advocating shooting every bear you come in contact with, but different situations warrant different levels of force.

[sheephunter]

Well Rack...my brain has pretty poor ballistics but it seems to even be enough to keep even me out of trouble in K-Country. But I'm sure there is someone on here with way more brain credentials than me that we'll hear from! It's usually only a matter of time. :confused:

[Dark Wing]

Seems like we had this discussion not to long ago. A bear bell would work fine. The secret is not to surprise the bear, give him plenty of warning and you shouldn't have a problem. I lived in bear country all my life and only carry a rifle during hunting season.

[Rackmastr]

LOL....yea thats what I was thinkin Sheep.....

[Dick284]

You haven't driven the Deerfoot on a motorcycle lately have you Dick? Definitely a lot of bear bait driving cars there......:lol:

Your right I havn't driven the Derrfoot lately.
Does the Whitemud or Yellowhead count?

It's like they say I'm going out so I'll just leave my brain here on the counter at home so I don't loose it or something.

Maybe Darwin was right.;)

Sadly it does'nt work that way and we have to address things in a manner in which we have to protect such types from themselves.

It's much like safe work planning, where you can't say use your common sense.
you have to address every hazard and find a concrete means of mitigation for it.
Under that premis, perhaps it should go like this.
If you go out in the woods and there is the slightest chance of a bear encounter, go home??!
Can't see that happening.
So therefore we as the cratures with the ability to reason and have fore thought we should be able to use our brain for 98% of the instances.
For the other 2% of the time well, I guess some sort of protection is warrented.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[BrownBear416]

I think everyone has good points in this thread.

sheephunter says- M14...I've come face to face with dozens if not hundreds of grizzly bears in K-Country over the past 20 years without a problem. Your brain is your most effective weapon. Use it and you shouldn't have any issues.

I agree a 100 % with this statement but also feel that if it is legal to pack a firearm,and you feel safer having one with you then by all means pack one.We have all read stories where outdoorsman had to shoot bears in self defence so not all encounters with bears are avoided without incident.

[catnthehat]

Never worried about it, and tramped around on the trapline forr years without a firearm if I was scouting or whatever.
Hiked in the Rockies quite a bit when I was younger , and around the Nordegg area as well, fishing - no rifle.

Many peoople like Andy Russel have always contended that your brain will get you out of trouble faster than a gun when you get confronted by a bear.
I have always gon e by that.
I do carry spray with me however.
Had a friend whose daughter turned a Grizz in B.C. with a can of it.
She was in the wrong place - stumbled on an elk cache and didn't get out of there.
Cat

[Young Eldon]

You have a lot of good advise in the above posts. I just want to support those that say you can save yourself a lot of cash, arguments, time and grief by saving your guns for the hunting seasons. If you know your bear behaviors, travel smart and carry good bear spray you will be just fine. Packing a gun all the time is just not worth the weight and trouble. If you have a good controlable and bold dog or two they are also great help in bear habitat (keeping them on leash is best). I have used Karelian bear dogs to herd grizzlies in Montana and KC - both bear species have a lot of respect for aggresive dogs. When you think about it, wolves are one of the few species that grizzlies need to respect and the right dogs can make a good substitute for wolves.
Enjoy

[catnthehat]

OOOhhhh - Karelian Bear dogs!
I love dawgs, all breeds and mixes, but really like specialty breeds like them and
the sporting breeds.
Great critters, for sure!
If I were spending a lot of time in the Ri=ockies again, I would likely get one of them.
Cat

[SakoAlberta]

I carry a .338 when fishing up in the north of AB/SK. The only time I 'needed' a rifle was up in the NWT. We were fishing several miles along a tundra creek for graying in the Richardson mts. As we followed the creek back we could see a mother and three cubs were betwwen us and the truck. We skirted wide, of course, but there was a large boar near the truck when we got there. We waited him out and got into the truck without incident, however, it was nice haveing the .416 Rigby when the bears were around like that!

[Grizzly Adams]

Hey Dark wing: You remember the old joke about bear bells? good plan A, but it's always wise to have a Plan B.:D
Grizz

[-NDN-]

CO: Why are you carrying a shotgun?

Me: Rabbit hunting.

CO: With slugs?

Me: Trophy rabbits.:innocent:



http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Z-Axis-2007/Emoticons/hnhaha4.gifhttp://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Z-Axis-2007/Emoticons/rofl.gifhttp://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Z-Axis-2007/Emoticons/hnhaha4.gif



id rather have a gun than no gun. if you happen to stubble on a situation that the bears on top of you and theres no chance to use it, so be it. but when coming down a trail and you are aware of thebear before he is of you, then at least you have peace of mind while you back out of the situation. I woould like it if I could pack my .44 while out flyfishing in bear country, dare to dream.

[sheephunter]

The problem with much of K-Country is that you are required to have the gun cased on many trails. At least I can have my bear spray handy at my side and am not asking a bear to wait while I get my gun out of its case. You will run into a hassle packing a gun around in K-Country....legal or not. It's a different part of the world.

[Rackmastr]

The problem with much of K-Country is that you are required to have the gun cased on many trails. At least I can have my bear spray handy at my side and am not asking a bear to wait while I get my gun out of its case. You will run into a hassle packing a gun around in K-Country....legal or not. It's a different part of the world.

Ya that was one part I didnt like about hunting K-Country this year....casing my gun up for the hike up a mountain.....not a huge hassle, but kinda annoying.....

[sheephunter]

Ya...no biggie for sheep hunting but kind of defeats the purpose of a self-defense gun. I just leave a really lightweight gun sock on the rifle at all times. Basically no extra weight and I don't have to worry whether I'm in an area where it needs to be cased or not. Like I said....it's a different world in K- Country.

[TreeGuy]

OK, here's a question. What do you guys think of using something like a compact marine air horn, or one of those keychain alarms that nurses often use that are as loud and ear-splitingly piercing as the smoke dector in my house that seems to go off every time I cook supper?:D

Tree

[sheephunter]

It would definitely keep the other hikers away but bear bells might be a bit more...ummmmmm.....bearable.....:innocent:

Just pulling your leg. Not sure how any of it works and hope never to find out!

[altaberg]

Ray,

there's one of them trophy rabbits for you in case you need to show the Co what you're hunting.

What do you think the score of this baby is?

The taxidermist is pretty talented too me thinks

[TreeGuy]

It would definitely keep the other hikers away but bear bells might be a bit more...ummmmmm.....bearable.....:innocent:

Just pulling your leg. Not sure how any of it works and hope never to find out!

Bearable.....funny.:tongue2::lol: Usually keeping other hikers away is even BETTER than keeping bears away. I don't leave cowtown to spend time with humans!:innocent: I think it would work though.

Tree

[Win94]

I stream fish in the Cadomin/Robb area. I carry a stainless Guidegun with the XS ghost ring and a fiber optic front sight. I also have my 4 year old daughter in tow more often than not. My wife has an easier day knowing we are out there and armed. I also practice with my Guidegun at the very least once a week and more often than not twice a week as the range is only 7 minutes from my home.

At the mine i work at which is in the same vicinity as my fishing spots, we have had around a dozen Grizz sightings in the last three weeks. We also have a road barricaded currently as there are two in the area as big as volkswagons and don't scare off too easily and we would rather keep the public away from the vicinity for the time being.

It would be absolutley stupid of me not to carry while fishing these areas knowing first hand of the bear population in said area. I would also be doing my daughter an injustice by not doing my best to help insure our safety during our outdoor outings.

[catnthehat]

I stream fish in the Cadomin/Robb area. I carry a stainless Guidegun with the XS ghost ring and a fiber optic front sight. I also have my 4 year old daughter in tow more often than not. My wife has an easier day knowing we are out there and armed. I also practice with my Guidegun at the very least once a week and more often than not twice a week as the range is only 7 minutes from my home.

At the mine i work at which is in the same vicinity as my fishing spots, we have had around a dozen Grizz sightings in the last three weeks. We also have a road barricaded currently as there are two in the area as big as volkswagons and don't scare off too easily and we would rather keep the public away from the vicinity for the time being.

It would be absolutley stupid of me not to carry while fishing these areas knowing first hand of the bear population in said area. I would also be doing my daughter an injustice by not doing my best to help insure our safety during our outdoor outings.

I would imagine that the grizzlies around the mine act differently than the ones you would meet in the deep bush, same as the blacks.
When I took my younsters out , I was always more concerned, mainly becuae their welfare comes first, as well as not knowing how they are going to react to a bear confrontation.
BTW, just started reading Ernie Engstrom's book again, Howdy mark!:wave:
Cat

[Win94]

Hey there David!!!:D

.....u call that transfer in yet??:D

[Kutenay]

I stream fish in the Cadomin/Robb area. I carry a stainless Guidegun with the XS ghost ring and a fiber optic front sight. I also have my 4 year old daughter in tow more often than not. My wife has an easier day knowing we are out there and armed. I also practice with my Guidegun at the very least once a week and more often than not twice a week as the range is only 7 minutes from my home.

At the mine i work at which is in the same vicinity as my fishing spots, we have had around a dozen Grizz sightings in the last three weeks. We also have a road barricaded currently as there are two in the area as big as volkswagons and don't scare off too easily and we would rather keep the public away from the vicinity for the time being.

It would be absolutley stupid of me not to carry while fishing these areas knowing first hand of the bear population in said area. I would also be doing my daughter an injustice by not doing my best to help insure our safety during our outdoor outings.

This, IMO, is EXACTLY what I meant in my initial post on this topic and is VERY wise practice for anyone concerned about Grizzly attacks. There is a device available for eliminating that abortion of a cross-bolt safety on those Marlins, my older version does not have one and i consider them dangerous in a defence weapon.

I think that this is the best method of dealing with the potential problem and the cost of such a "tool gun" is not much measured against the loss of a child. I was at Slave Lake for the AFS in '93 when that boy was killed and partially eaten by a yearling Blackie and remember the sorrow and horror of all concerned; I have had colleagues here in the BCFS severelu mauled, so, being armed ain't a bad idea.

The freon horns are an excellent way of letting a bear know you are in the vicinity and are especially useful in BC where cascading streams drown out the noise of a human's approach where bears usually travel, on trails beside creeks, due to temp. factors, food availability and terrain. So, I would carry one and use it only when entering a vision-restricted area; these are good for signalling searchers if lost as well as whistles don't carry well in much mountain terrain or close to streams.

Using your brain is paramount, but, even with caution, ALL bears are inherently dangerous and Grizzlies are extremely dangerous, so, if in doubt about safety, Win 94's approach is, IMHO, the best one.

[bowchaser]

TJ, in your experience with close encounters can you tell me about some of the things you do to avoid or deal with those situations. Like to hear some real advice.

thanks

[Win94]

Kute, i like you, also hate the crossbolt safety. I currently have an o-ring on mine to prevent it from being accidentally set. I will be buying the kit soon to get rid of it totally.

[Kutenay]

Case in point here, about two years ago, Jack Turner stepped out of his cabin at Hagensborg, BC, in the evening; he was attacked by one of four Grizzlies lurking outside his cabin and mauled. Jack was 74 at the time, but, managed to get away and back inside the cabin to safety.

Jack Turner is a living legend as a REAL mountain man; he is the husband of Trudy Turner and son-in-law of the legendary Ralph Edwards, "The Crusoe of Lonesome Lake", who built a homestead in the Atnarko country starting before WWI.

Jack and Trudy has their own bush homestead in that area, starting in the '50s and he has dealt with a LOT of Grizzlies and killed what was the world's record for several years in May, 1965. I know his brother-in-law, the late Stan Edwards at Ocean Falls in '69-'70 and this is one of the most densely populated Grizzly areas on the planet. I was back to Bella Coola in 2005 and we saw a lot of bears.

This type of attack upon highly experienced bush people in BC is increasing and more people seem to be carrying guns as a result. NO avodance techniques will prevent an aggressive bear from attacking a human, but, an appropriate gun may well save your life, it's an individual decision, of course.

I almost never carry when backpacking and very seldom did when fishing, but, I do carry on backpack trips to alpine lakes as I bring out trout for my wife who loves to eat them. I figure that since Grizzlies are so attracted by odours and by fish, the chances of an encounter of the type I do not want are high enough that the weight of a rifle is worth carrying.

Having had three solo encounters with Grizzlies at less than 25 yds., unarmed and armed on different occasions, I have no illusions about being able to use only my brain to prevent one from messing up my day. On one occasion, unarmed, mid-August 1974, I encountered the largest Grizzly I have ever seen on the old Bulldog Lookout Road near Castlegar, BC and I was unarmed.

I was within 10 yds. of that bear for over five minutes and I was NOT too relaxed about it; he moved off as I quietly spoke to him and stood very still, but, I could have done nothing had he decided that I needed to learn whose turf this REALLY was. After that, I started to pack a gun on evening strolls near lookouts.

[Don Meredith]

I agree with Young Eldon (hi Eldon!). I hike in grizzly country during the summer and hunt in grizzly country in the fall. I only carry a gun during hunting season. What I do carry all the time is bear spray. It is on my belt and handy, and I know how to use it. The problem with shooting a charging bear is that there is no guarantee you will stop the bear, even if wounded. With bear spray, if you know how to use it, the bear will be disabled. Of course there are risks, but a lot less than having to swing a rifle or shotgun.

Over the years, I have encountered three grizzlies that were too close for comfort (one hiking and two hunting). In each of the cases, I remembered Andy Russell's words about using your head, and the bear and I backed out of a tense situation.

[Dick284]

Lots of good banter here folks.
I agree with TJ and the using your brain first and fore most approch.
I also believe in having something other than my wits when push comes to shove.
The issue in the original posters querry is the carrying of a firearm in an area where your either in parks or next to a park or in proxcimity to a bunch of people who might not take to kindly to seeing some guy strooling through their piece of nature packing what to them could only be deemed a "machine gun"(no it aint but guess what they will call it)
I know of no sureer way of geeting your chops and balls busted by the local constabulary, and the sad thruth about it is your the one having to proove you innocence.

I also through my current employe here lots of stories of bear encounters from my fellow workers who work the Bow river and K country, about their bear run in's. Guess what they are given to protect themselves. A video on bear awareness (which I noted to have no less than 3 critical errors which could get some one killed) a can of pepper spray, and an air horn.
At one facility they arrived on site had to walk about 500 yds to their directed work. They walked about half way to the work let out a couple blast on the air horn, and proceeded down to the work they had to do. About 50yds from their work the trail splits into two, one going high onto a bench above their work another directly to the work.
About 10 yds past the split, two grizzly bears popped their heads over the raised bank above them and proceed to woof at them and then lit out running parrallel to them.
They neither had time to draw the pepper spray, and the air horn did nothing to alert the bears of their pressence.

I really wonder what the end result is going to be when someone gets mauled or killed in a work situation, and the feel good mamby pamby no firearms policies, companies have will get put under the spot light.

[ABDUKNUT]

Carry a gun fly-fishing? Too cumbersome. Even handguns, which in fact I have carried in AK, but it was more of a 'just because I can' thing, than a common sense thing.
Camping? 100% most definitely, either an 870 with decent slugs or a guide gun with decent ammo. Lots available, and lots of suggestions out there. The AK DF&G uses guide guns with .45-70 buffalo bores to dispatch problem brown bears, so that's the advice I took and that's what I suggest for a camp gun...
I also use a minimum .30 cal for hunting other game in Grizz country. I like the .300 WSM with good 180g bullets. I sleep better at night and feel safer packing meat through the bush.
I camped on the Kenai river last year with a very experienced, reknown drift boat guide, and he had a .458 packed away somewhere in case we needed it, but I sure wouldn't recomend trying to carry one along on a hike.

As far as the airhorn, I was present at an incident where 5 or 6 shots were fired right over the head of a large Grizz, from a loud .50AE Desert Eagle, and the bear didn't even flinch, let alone run away. I also saw a Grizz wander about the lease entrance during a big frac with about 15 different big diesels running at 1800 RPM- Extremely loud but the bear didn't seem the least bit concerned.

[albertadave]

I really wonder what the end result is going to be when someone gets mauled or killed in a work situation, and the feel good mamby pamby no firearms policies, companies have will get put under the spot light.

There's a case going on in the NWT right now. Two surveyors were working for an exploration company in the bush near an old mine (that I used to work at) last year, and surprised a grizzly. Not sure of all the details, but at least one of them was killed. If I find out any more I'll post it.

[Dick284]

There's a case going on in the NWT right now. Two surveyors were working for an exploration company in the bush near an old mine (that I used to work at) last year, and surprised a grizzly. Not sure of all the details, but at least one of them was killed. If I find out any more I'll post it.

Especially if the Company who hired them had a specific no firearms policy.

[albertadave]

I couldn't find anything on the one I was thinking of but here's another going on in the Yukon.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/07/17/yk-aurora.html?ref=rss

[sheephunter]

TJ, in your experience with close encounters can you tell me about some of the things you do to avoid or deal with those situations. Like to hear some real advice.

thanks



I've always just made my presence known...never acted threatening (unless they start acting aggressive) or frightened and I've never had an issue. Twice I've thrown rocks at grizzlies to urge them along. Bounce a big rock of a bear's head and it gets you some respect. Can't say a bear attack won't happen but I've never been worried about it. Stand your ground and just make sure they know you are there.

[steelhead]

I have worked in the mountains for 20 years now in the northern rockies, lived in the bush for many many summers. Had many many bear encounters, some of which went south.


Many of you have never encountered a predatory black bear. I can tell by your responses. I saw my buddy get his boots ripped off when he climbed a tree. I got down and sprayed him. He ran, stopped and came back. I had enough time to give it a blast from a 20 guage, and he ran off then.

Theres is NO time to think with a predatory bear attack, you wont see it coming, NEVER. No time to get the spray out, no time to raise the barrell of a gun, and bells attract them. One in a few thousand can be a predatory bear. Your all very fortunate not to have met one. They have learned to be successfull hunters by being quiet and fast to attack. And they will get you, no talking to it, no raising your hands, hes on you fast and hard.


Bear spray will hurt you more than a bear. Worst product I have ever seen for bears. I have hit 9 bears with spray, 7 came back.


My favorite is, as was mentioned before by another member, a marine air horn.

You wanna see any bear run with his tail between his legs and his ears back, give him the horn. As I mentioned, I have had many many encounters and this has been the best method by far to rid yourself of them critters. I still carry a gun though, a pump 20 guage with a shortened barrel full of slugs (the lighter arm of the shotgun series that is still good to do damage). I have had the bear sniff the barrel and told him "just one more step" a few times. Shot at 2 bears, all predatory black that wouldnt take the bear spray for a final answer. The third predatory black I have ever encountered, fled and screamed from the air horn, scared the urine out of him. My partner has been the lucky guy that seems to be the target while were out, and like him, if it happened to me, I would have crapped myself like he did. He has had stitches, and scars from being the target. And if you ever hit a bear with a gun, dont follow it to see it. Even scarrier story there.

All that said, 2 of the best ways to scare off bears that I have found. Travel with a partner, always, and use an air horn. Both thorouly tested by me and my partner in many many situations. If the bears are around loud places where garbage can be found, ie. oil sites with diesels, they wont go for the horn, but deep in the bush where the loudest thing they have ever heard was thunder, works like a charm, its louder than an elk crying for its life.


A gun does give you piece of mind and a clear conscience to sleep at night. I feel less scared with one.


steelhead

[catnthehat]

I still get chills when I think about thee ones that I have done business with.
The 71/2 footer that busted the jam right off my cabin door in thhe middle of the night ( shot him without getting out of bed!)
The number of times I've had to go into the tangles with a SXS12 to earn my keep as a guide when a guest blew the shot and wounded one.

cutting the team loose on one that had already done one of the dogs at the end of his lead, or caught one on a slope on the trapline.

All those bears ended up dead, but that was business , not sport.
Guiding and trapping were a whole different ball game to me than hunting for fun.

Cat

[steelhead]

Nice to meet you cat.



Prospector here.



I got chills just relaying those vague stories I mentioned. I could go on for days.


for me, strictly protection, not business, not for hunting fun.


Followed one poorly shot bear once into the brambles once to make sure he didnt suffer,

his last and final move before his death was knocking my feet out from under me with a final swing. fell on my back, dropped my gun, looked over and he breathed his last breath on me with a warm misty puff. If he was any livelier, i would have been the one exhausting that last warm misty puff.

One reason why I mention, dont follow a wounded bear in self defence situations. He can still get ya.


And yes, I piddled a bit, but just a bit.


Steelhead

[catnthehat]

Howdy!
I never prospected, but have been on the trapline when it would be a month or two before anybody even wondered when I was coming out.
One tends to have a different point of view then, for sure!
Prospecting , of course is the same thing then I would imagine as far as being isolated.

As a guide, it is encumbent on one to make sure his guest stay safe, hunts by the rules , and that every attempt is made to recover a wounded animal.
I only let a guest accompany me once on a wounded bear, my first year in.
I almost didn't make it back out!
That's why I always went in after alone, sometimes in stuff so thick you had to crawl through it.
I wasn't 25 years old at the time, but I'd do it all again if the chance came up!

Cat

[albertadave]

Steelhead, as a prospector aren't you eligable to obtain a permit to carry a handgun while carrying out your business?

[steelhead]

In this day and age, i'm not even gonna bother tryin. Too much crap to get one. I feel safe with the 20 and am satisfied with the results. And the way I see it, if they get me, they won. I'm in thier home, I would harm an intruder in my own home.


Not sure of the law either. Never bothered to find out. Never talked about it with my peers.

I am an outdoorsman, but not an animal harvester (I have views on the shooting of animals that may not sit well with many on here, but I do agree with the shooting of animals and the individuals that utilize it for food, conservation practices and thier livleyhood, so dont no one cry PETA freak on me and this is all i'm gonna say about that, if thats your thing, go to it, you wont get any objections from me) and the shooting sports i engage in are kerplinkin with a .22 and the 20 guage at metal targets or a bees nest. I have no need for any other type of firearm bigger than what I have now nor do I have expansive collections of firearms to choose from. When I'm in the bush, I eat fish.


I do know a few in my field that do pack heat, but theres no law where we work except the law of nature and thier arms never see the real world or the truck or helicopter they got there with.


Steelhead

[Stinky Coyote]

Love the rabbit post. You can legally hunt rabbits at all times of the year so you can carry a gun. And since i'm just starting doing some hiking in k-country and learning about those areas where the gun needs to be 'cased/covered & unloaded' i get double duty out of my eberlestock backpack. Once i'm on the trail a ways i'll put the full magazine in my tikka. I can pull the gun out with 'two handholds' just like the website shows...and i can also put it back in while the pack is on my back. Here is a picture of the pack with a laminated stainless tikka t3 in .270 in it and what i did for the buttstock was just put an outdoor research stuff sack (size 1) over it and cinch it up around the pistol grip. The gun is fully covered but i can pull it out and git one up the tube in pretty short order....its plenty shootable with the stuff sack in place fyi. Just giving ideas......i think the bearspray would be the best choice for regular hiking though...i'd have it on the center chest strap of the pack and the trigger guard off as soon as you hit the trail head....having it ready to go would be the only way to carry it...otherwise wasting your time imo.

Have read the same about brenneke slugs for the 12 gauge guys also...nevermind any buckshot....just get some brenneke slugs, thats the best thing you could feed a bear defence shotgun from first shot to the last shot.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/13176272/264580871.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/13176272/264580866.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/13176272/264580856.jpg

[Ray]

Ray,

there's one of them trophy rabbits for you in case you need to show the Co what you're hunting.

What do you think the score of this baby is?

The taxidermist is pretty talented too me thinks

Nice bull rabbit, looks like 14, maybe even 15 inches. I hear they can be ferocious when they charge.

[Ray]

I agree with Young Eldon (hi Eldon!). I hike in grizzly country during the summer and hunt in grizzly country in the fall. I only carry a gun during hunting season. What I do carry all the time is bear spray. It is on my belt and handy, and I know how to use it. The problem with shooting a charging bear is that there is no guarantee you will stop the bear, even if wounded. With bear spray, if you know how to use it, the bear will be disabled. Of course there are risks, but a lot less than having to swing a rifle or shotgun.

Over the years, I have encountered three grizzlies that were too close for comfort (one hiking and two hunting). In each of the cases, I remembered Andy Russell's words about using your head, and the bear and I backed out of a tense situation.

In all seriousness, the only time I will actually carry a firearm in the wild is when I am actually hunting. But I do carry the biggest can of spray I can find (even when hunting) I have read studies that indicate unless you practice lots on targets moving toward you at high rates of speed it can be very difficult to land a stopping shot. I'm not confident enough in my abilities to pack a shotgun.

[ABwhitetail]

I can't say I have had any serious run ins with a bear...I have seen both grizz and blacks and been with and with-out a rifle (but had Pepper). Until recently I never really was too concerned; but I friend of mine was in Banff this past weekend....his wife and his 1 year old daughter in a stroller went for a walk down a paved trail near the campsite (sorry I am not sure exactly what campground)....as they rounded the corner they saw a grizz walking the trail (away from them).....there was no incident, the bear was about 200yrds away...but still, makes you think....

I agree with using your brain #1....but if in bear country, and the law allows it....with the fact I am confident about using one, I would feel alot safer with a gun ...especially if I had my family with me......

[Kevin Dunn]

Hi Guys/Gals,

I'm VERY new to this site (about 15 minutes) but I've enjoyed reading through the this post. I agree with a lot of the statements that are being made about "you brain being you first line of defence" and that the vast majority of contact with bears can be avoided through noise and choosing the proper direction of travel.....but now I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. Let me start with that I guide caribou and wolf hunts here in the NWT and hunt the Mackenzie Mountains for sheep every year (over the counter tag). I live in the "toolies" and we have a lot of black bears around the house and the barrens and mountains are thick with grizzlies these days. Personally....I do not go for a walk out there without a firearm for protection.......one in a million chance of an attack happening or not......it is something that I can and will prevent. For personal protection there is only one choice for me....and that is a 12 guage with 3" mags (slugs and buckshot).....2 3/4's for the Wife. If I am guiding bowhunters I carry a rifle (.257 Weatherby)....mostly because I'm not chasing a poorly hit caribou if it decides that he is leaving the country. If I am with rifle hunters I carry the guage. I have never had to shoot a grizz up there....but I've let them know that they are not welcome around me or our camp. My closest call was with a sow and two cubs. We were stalking through some willows to get to a bedded bull....I know....I know....stay out of the willows....but wind and elevation play a role in our chosen sport.....and really.....it's a one in a million chance that there is a bear there....right????? We stopped in the middle of the willows to make a final plan and make sure that the client was on the same page as to what bull he should take.....we had another 100 yards to get to our chosen location. That is when I heard the most hair raising noise that I had EVER heard and the she busted out of the far side of the willows straight at us......thankfully she stopped at about 40ft and put on her display.....I still don't know what stopped her......maybe the shell being racked into the gun or me yelling at her....who knows.....but one more 10 foot stride from her and all *ell would broken loose. She was protecting her cubs....doing her job.....I was doing mine. That being said.....anyone that uses there brain in a bear confrontation should know that not all situations are the same. There was an 18 year old fella killed 2 km's from my home by a black bear 4 or 5 years ago. It was a very old bear with one eye (they suspect that he lost it in a fight with another bear)....regardless....when he saw the two kids.....they were food to him.....thankfully the girl got away. I'm sure if you asked the boys Mother....she wished he had a firearm with him. Bear spray.....maybe if the wind was right......but I have my doubts that it would stop a charging bear that was intent on KILLING you. I can not attest to this as I NEVER carry it. This is not the only person here that has been killed by a bear.....a friend of ours was killed outside Hay River two years ago while he was setting up his fishing lodge for the season. He knew a bear was in the area and had a loaded rifle on the kitchen table....something he never did. It seems as though he went to the outhouse (40 yards) from the cabin late one evening with no rifle. He had operated this lodge for longer than I've been alive (37 yrs). His son flew out 2 days later when they had no communication with him. A son should never have to witness a bear feeding on his father.....that bear will never do that again. Regardless, when our pastimes include spending time in THEIR land...one had better be prepared....because, even if YOU do everything correctly........if HE/SHE decides that you are dinner.....there is nothing that you can do about it!! Although I have never met any of you......you are all worth more than a bear.

Respectfully,

Kevin

[Kevin Dunn]

One more quick note.....as a response the to the "break and enter" crack head post. This is what you do....when he comes through your door......take his head clean off his shoulders with the shot gun......take a step backwards and put one into the ceiling. If anyone ever asks.....you gave him a warning shot and the deranged crack head kept coming.....ensure that your backwards step is clear of any splatter as you don't want to hit that with your "warning shot".....gotta love CSI :-)

Kevin

[Rackmastr]

One more quick note.....as a response the to the "break and enter" crack head post. This is what you do....when he comes through your door......take his head clean off his shoulders with the shot gun......take a step backwards and put one into the ceiling. If anyone ever asks.....you gave him a warning shot and the deranged crack head kept coming.....ensure that your backwards step is clear of any splatter as you don't want to hit that with your "warning shot".....gotta love CSI :-)

Kevin

Me thinks you've been watching too much CSI......

[Okotokian]

Not sure there is any one right answer. I've hiked in K country before, though certainly not as extensively as many of you. Using your head starts before you even leave. I don't bother at extreme times of the year, and have actually never run into a bear upclose and personal when I have been there. I take bearspray and make noise. For the times and places I go, it seems good enough. Do I think carrying a gun would be safer? Probably (as long as you don't shut off your brain because you are carrying it), but I don't feel like packing one ten miles if I don't have to, and I estimate my risks to be low (though of course not zero) given when and where I go. I wouldn't compalin if others did though. To each his own. I wouldn't think them crazy for doing it.

[-NDN-]

"holy crap", says -NDN-, as he prepares the straight jacket and sneaks up on Kevin.:D :D

[Okotokian]

One more quick note.....as a response the to the "break and enter" crack head post. This is what you do....when he comes through your door......take his head clean off his shoulders with the shot gun......take a step backwards and put one into the ceiling. If anyone ever asks.....you gave him a warning shot and the deranged crack head kept coming.....ensure that your backwards step is clear of any splatter as you don't want to hit that with your "warning shot".....gotta love CSI :-)

Kevin

Here's an even better idea... try that warning shot FIRST.... I dunno about you, but I'd rather try a little persuasion first before I just cavalierly "blow someone's head off". That you have to live with the rest of your life, even if you do avoid any legal problems.

[Kevin Dunn]

Sorry there Sir....I added the last post in jest. I did not mean to offend anyone by it. I put it in as a separate post for this reason.....I'm not as computer literate as most 5 year olds and I tried to put the little smiley faces in the text.....but I only got one at the top. If I did offend anyone I apologise as it was not my intent. I will curb my "lack" of sense of humour in the future.

Respectfully,

Kevin

[Okotokian]

Sorry there Sir....I added the last post in jest. I did not mean to offend anyone by it. I put it in as a separate post for this reason.....I'm not as computer literate as most 5 year olds and I tried to put the little smiley faces in the text.....but I only got one at the top. If I did offend anyone I apologise as it was not my intent. I will curb my "lack" of sense of humour in the future.

Respectfully,

Kevin

No problem Kevin, I wasn't offended. Just having some fun pointing out the hole in your logic, something I seem to be able to do very rarely around here. I'm usually the guy being corrected :lol:

[albertadave]

Just so there's no confusion, my crack head analogy was only meant to illistrate my point on self defense. You should only shoot bears, or crack heads, as a last resort.:lol:

[Huntnut]

Just a FYI-it is possible to get an ATC to carry a handgun in the bush but it has to be job related-(ie trapper). Apperantly they really make you jump through the hoops but if your willing to do it, it can be done. Remember that I read this on the internet so take it for what it is worth. If you really want to pack protection you may want to look into this.

[Kevin Dunn]

Hey there Otokian,

Glad you weren't offended......it really was meant in jest. On a side note to your last......I've never been known to be very logical in most of what I do!

Happy hunting and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you on this site.

Sincerely,

Kevin

[Kevin Dunn]

Hunt Nut you are correct. It is possible to get a carry permit in almost all of the provinces and territories if it is job related.....not up here though. Brent Sinclair from Pincher Creek has one for AB, BC and the Yukon I believe. He looked into one for the NT but as you say.....there is a lot of hoops to jump through.....his occupation is as a guide. My neighbor here is a staker and was trying to get one here and was declined because the pistol he listed was a 9mm.....to small to qualify as bear protection (I agree with this). He was told the minimum size was a 357mag....which in my mind may be a little on the light side as well....but with a good bullet....maybe. I've been putting a lot of thought into this as well. You would be able to get off more than one shot with a lighter gun....with a .454 Casul you'ld probably only get one off....pretty tough to control....especially for a 180lb runt like me. I've given up on it....especially after finding out what a lousy shot I am with a pistol....I'll stick to the long guns.

This brings up an interesting question though....."What would you guys feel the minimum calibre handgun for bear protection be?"

I'll start.....357mag with GOOD bullets!!

Kevin

[Huntnut]

Yea one of the conditions is being able to prove that you are a good enough shot-apperently you have to go out to the local range with someone from the rcmp and he/she grades you.

[ABwhitetail]

Have any of you seen some of the video footage floating around the net in regard to "self defense bear shootings"....here is one from a cabelas TV show.....I am not sure what caliber I would suggest....but I do agree with one thing that was said prior in this post..... PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE.....
that is some serious pressure to make your shot count....

I have also seen some african game charges....Jim Shockey has some good footage.....just again shows that it is more than just carrying a "big" Gun...YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THE SHOT COUNT....After seeing footage and responding to a statement made early in this post....I don't think there is any situatuion that will allow you to get smacked once by the bear...then feel you have the authority to shoot....

Anyway here is that video...and you'll see what I mean....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc

Here is another option to carrying a rifle....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopLg4SqzpA

[Dick284]

Yea one of the conditions is being able to prove that you are a good enough shot-apperently you have to go out to the local range with someone from the rcmp and he/she grades you.


Now your getting totally hillarious.
The RCMP wont use our range for qualifications unless we close it to the members of the club.
It is'nt cause they think we might see some super secret weapon or technique. It's because they don't want John Q Public knowing how lousy most of their members are.
And they are gonna deem you qualified how?

[Kevin Dunn]

OHHHH look an eagle......had me until the little shuffle thing!!!!

Your words hold true here.....1000000 rounds with long guns......less than 100 with a pistol.....I know where I'm at!!!

Kevin

[Scouter]

I know it is illegal, but how many guys do think are carrying hand guns in the bush without liscense? I have heard some guys say that they would never get caught if they kept the gun concealed, or that thay would rather risk a ticket then regret not having it.

[Kevin Dunn]

Hi Scouter,

I have not seen too many handguns in the field.....but I can't say never. I know a few pilots that are members of the gun club and very likely they would carry them while flying around the North. In their defence, it would be pretty tough to roll 45 gallon drums of fuel out of a twin otter and 50m's from the high water mark with a long gun strapped to your back.

My understanding of the regs in AB is that you can not have a dog with you while you are hunting big game. Is this true? How do you sleep in grizz country like that......softly I guess. I have 4 karelian bear dogs.....my oldest is 4 1/2....and she does not like bears...pretty amazing actually......keeps them well away from camp. She spends weeks every year with me in the mountains and on the tundra......I could not imagine sleeping under a tarp without her around. Does anyone know the justification for this reg? Is it abuse because of "hunting with the dog". She is indespensible when it comes to peace of mind at night......and she was pretty helpful after hitting a black bear too far back two years ago.......it only went about 2-300 yards......but it was pretty thick bush and I don't know if I would have found him or not. We waited an hour before going in......she found it in minutes. Can you use dogs in AB to recover game?

Kevin

[ABwhitetail]

Hey Kevin,

No, you cannot use dogs for hunting or retreiving big game in Alberta....it seems to be one of those hot topics around here.....I personally think that using Dogs for game recovery is a great idea....

I have been hunting where guys have had a dog in theur moose camps....I am not sure if there are any legal issues with that....but I know that is where the dog stays..is in camp.....

[Kevin Dunn]

It doesn't make much sense to me.....ohh well:rolleyes: Nothing better than having a well trained dog around.....I don't think I'd be too fond of leaving my dog tied up in the middle of nowhere....with only wolves/cougars and bears around.....because if she wasn't tied she'd be right beside me. Well, here's hoping for change....everything takes time.....thanx for the response....very much appreciatted :-)

Thanx again,

Kevin

[M14Hunter]

Well... you have all been generous with your time on this question. I have contacted the Highwood Wlidlife office and have been told it is legal to carry a weapon for self-defence along highway 40 in K-Country as long as the weapon is unloaded and covered until I reach 365 metre from the middle of the road. I bought a Mossberg 12-guage shotgun with 17 1/2" barrel and pistol grip stock. Very light in weight. I have modified an old camo shotgun case by cutting it in half and sewing it, and repositioning the strap clips to allow for quick access. This will be strapped to my main day pack. I went to the range today, shooting bird shot and rifled slug. I thought my .308 semi-auto had some kick...no That rifled slug carried a helluva punch. Purely, a self-defense weapon.

I feel confident in making the decision to arm myself on these scouting hikes. I have won a draw for a white-tail in the area I hike. As for the ANTIS and do-gooders I have not seen one yet in the bush or game trail. I pull off the highway and go straight into the bush where few if any granola munchers dare to tread.Lol :D

Thanks All

[M14Hunter]

Today,
The Kananaskis Conservation Office returned my call concerning weapon carry for self-defense. She stated that the carry of a rifle for game hunting was legal if the rifle calibre was PROPORTIONAL to the animal being hunted and there was no exceptions to this, period. So the last post I made is indeed incorrect. No pistol grip shotguns with rifled slugs are permitted, unless it's bear season or some other big game at close range. Hope this clears things up!:wave:

[sheephunter]

Hmmmm....wonder if she is feeding you a line or if that is because it's a Wildland Park???? There are some strange rules for Wildland Parks even though hunting is permitted in them.

[Kutenay]

So, it seems to me that the best option here is to obtain a Marlin in .45-70 OR if you are lucky, a Browning 1886 SRC repro in the same chambering and use a decent handload. These "cowboy guns" are traditional in appearance, easy to load for and are more effective than almost anything else in STOPPING a Grizzly, they are also easier to pack when on long hikes.

You will not frighten as many people as with a "black gun" type of weapon, it CERTAINLY is "proportional" WTF THAT means and the Marlins are available used for reasonable prices.

I am taking one of mine backpacking after the long weekend here as I will be packing out Trout in country where Grizzlies are quite numerous, never had a problem there, but, why not be capable of dealing with one if I do?????

[Stinky Coyote]

yeah...wonder if you'd get the same answer if you asked 3 of them?...if i wanna hunt rabbits...a shotgun should be perfectly good for them...so what if i wanna clean em with the shot also?

[M14Hunter]

Sheephunter,
She said it was that rule because it is a wildland park. And apparently alot of hikers call or go into the office/ranger station to complain. They ask why is there a hunter on park land with weapons. So it would seem the public is misinformed about our park system. They think it is a provincial park thay are in and have been told that there is no hunting. Now that is enlightening isn't it. It's not that they are looking to do some finking, they are baffled as to why hunters are allowed in a protected area.:huh: :ashamed:

[sheephunter]

Think you read it wrong Kutenay...no guns outside of hunting season if I understand correctly.

[Stinky Coyote]

protected from development maybe...but just cause its a park of some sort doesn't mean it was made as a sanctuary from hunters...my guess anyhow?

[sheephunter]

Actually, Wildland Parks are covered by exactly the same rules as Provincial Parks. There are no special Wildland Park rules so the gun thing makes sense. The one exception is hunting but there are provincial parks where hunting is permitted too. Well, it doesn't surprise me...like I said...it's a different world out there.

[Dick284]

Well there you have it.
Asked answered and, well..........
Not like many of us thought it would be.
Glad you inquired and got the skinny.
Would have hated to see you wrote about in the papers.

[Stinky Coyote]

So would a little lever action 44 mag be considered too big for rabbits? It is a pistol cartridge afterall? That little ruger would be a slick/lightweight option maybe?

[sheephunter]

What part of unless there is a big game or bird season open are you missing Stinky? You need to be hunting something inder the authority of a licence.

[Okotokian]

Today,
The Kananaskis Conservation Office returned my call concerning weapon carry for self-defense. She stated that the carry of a rifle for game hunting was legal if the rifle calibre was PROPORTIONAL to the animal being hunted and there was no exceptions to this, period. So the last post I made is indeed incorrect. No pistol grip shotguns with rifled slugs are permitted, unless it's bear season or some other big game at close range. Hope this clears things up!:wave:

Interesting. I hunt right near that station, just before it turns into Provincial park proper. Since I can hunt in that area, I wouldn't have thought anything of going into it in the off season for some sighting in or target practice... Now you are saying that would be illegal? Good to know...

As for the proportionality point, are there really regs to cover that??? Imean, is there an upper limit to what you can use on a coyote???? legally?

[sheephunter]

The point is Okotokian.....this is a PARK and hunting and carrying a gun is only permitted under authority of a licence. You can't just carry a gun and say you are hunting rabbits, coyotes or ground squirrels. You need to have a licence for the WMU and your gun has to be appropriate for the game your licence is for. Obviously there is some room as to what is considered an appropriate calibre but that's not the important part of this regulation! Carrying a gun before September 5 would be illegal and then you better have a sheep tag.

[Okotokian]

The point is Okotokian.....this is a PARK and hunting and carrying a gun is only permitted under authority of a licence. You can't just carry a gun and say you are hunting rabbits, coyotes or ground squirrels. You need to have a licence for the WMU and your gun has to be appropriate for the game your licence is for. Obviously there is some room as to what is considered an appropriate calibre but that's not the important part of this regulation! Carrying a gun before September 5 would be illegal and then you better have a sheep tag.

Like I said, good to know. I would have unwittingly been in contravention of the law very easily... I have a good friend who works out of that station. Would have been embarassing having him cite me!

[Chet]

Helpful link for Provincial Parks (including Wildland Provincial Parks that allow hunting):

http://gateway.cd.gov.ab.ca/pubsandmedia/Regulations%20WEB%20brochure.pdf (http://gateway.cd.gov.ab.ca/pubsandmedia/Regulations%20WEB%20brochure.pdf)

If you're cruising around K-country in your flip flops in July, you best not be brandishing the ole'
45-70 or your 22 for that matter, in the name of hunting mountain rats.

Chet

[Stinky Coyote]

What part of unless there is a big game or bird season open are you missing Stinky? You need to be hunting something inder the authority of a licence.

I guess where i'm lost is...what about small game?....i though rabbits could be legally hunted year round?....i guess i need to know the boundaries of 'where' they can be hunted year round? I thought all of k-country?

[sheephunter]

My understanding is that if you are hunting in a Wildland Park it can only be for a species for which you hold a licence. As small game requires no licence then you cannot hunt them. There are parts of K-Country where there are no parks so I'm sure it's legal there but not in the Wildland Parks.

http://tprc.alberta.ca/parks/kananaskis/pdfs/ElbowSheepDonGettyMap.pdf

[Stinky Coyote]

Well this IS interesting. Cripes theres more 'parked up' k-country than not. This is good info to know...the bear protection thing during non-hunting seasons takes on a little more thought forsure....ie; bearspray...keeps things pretty simple it appears.

[VerySavage]

I do carry a thunderstick when hiking with my family, but I am a long way from the crazyness of K-Country. When I am out in the bush with my family I ofen pack my 12ga Norinco SxS shotgun, just a simple safety precaution, I have not had to use yet. I have practiced with it several times with friends when we will throw a box of clays, its a short range tool, for clays I load up 2 3/4" #6 shot, for hiking I prefer Tripple Aught Buckshot 3" Mags.
--Ken