Barbless Hooks

[valve god]

Was fishing on Isle lake Fish and Wildlife come over and check us out. When he asked to see my hooks he found one that in his OPINON was still barbed. I have followed the barbless law since it was implemented years ago. According the the regs the barb must pressed against the shaft.Quote from regs:Barbless Hook – includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional.
He informed me that I have to file the barbs off the hook but no where in the regs it says this. He said if you run your line across the barb and it gets caught, it is still barbed. To make a long story short $200.00 later and a seized hook. So beware out there he had given out many of these tickets on that lake that day!!!!!:mad3::tongue2:

[DarkAisling]

You are allowed to have barbed hooks in your tackle box. You are not allowed to have them on your line. I've heard about the "line test" before, so I try to make sure anything I'm using will pass. I can't comment on if the barb was functional or not.

Was this a hook that was pulled out of your tackle box? That's what I think I'm reading between the lines.

[valve god]

It was taken out of the tackle box but it was squeezed closed but not good enough. I have a file in my box now so every hook gets filed now before it goes in the water. Any new hooks will get the same treatment as soon as I buy them.

[ceedub]

There is no law in Alberta that I know of where you can't possess barbed hooks in your tackle box, in fact, most of the hooks in mine still have the barbs intact. I don't think the Fish and Wildlife officers have any business looking into your tackle box in the first place, unless their looking for caught fish.

Craig

[valve god]

There is no law in Alberta that I know of where you can't possess barbed hooks in your tackle box, in fact, most of the hooks in mine still have the barbs intact. I don't think the Fish and Wildlife officers have any business looking into your tackle box in the first place, unless their looking for caught fish.

Craig

It was not in the box it was on my line that was pulled up by the F&W

[sharrozap]

Last winter I was checked at Isle Lake, only hooks in the water. He never ask me to see the hooks in my tackle box where I have many barbed hooks. I pinch the barb when I'm using the hook. I think the officer can check only the hooks in the water.

[DarkAisling]

It was not in the box it was on my line that was pulled up by the F&W

Good to know.

There have been many discussions over what's "good enough" to pass. While the "line test" may not be the official way of determining if something is pinched down enough, it is certainly employed by a number of fish cops. As a result it really is best to ensure that your hooks will pass that test.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I'm just relaying what the experience of others seems to indicate.

I have a battery operated Dremel that I purchased for dealing with barbs. In theory, I charge it up before I leave, take it with me, and then quickly remove the barb before I put something new on my line.

I say "in theory" as I stopped bringing it along back in September. I think I should revive the practice based on your experience.

I don't remove my barbs as soon as I purchase something, as I don't know where I'll be using the item. In areas where it is legal, I will use barbed hooks.

[DarkAisling]

Last winter I was checked at Isle Lake, only hooks in the water. He never ask me to see the hooks in my tackle box where I have many barbed hooks. I pinch the barb when I'm using the hook. I think the officer can check only the hooks in the water.

Well, I think the officer can check pretty much anything he wants. However, he may only write a citation for hooks that are in the water.

Officers have busted people for having barbed hooks on their lines that were not in the water and hadn't yet been used for fishing. It is best to deal with your barbs before the hook goes on the line, not after, to avoid this.

My next-door-neighbours had a huge hassle with a fish cop who found barbed hooks in their tackle boxes. It took a series of phone calls, and a few months, to get the tickets voided. I've heard of others having problems with tackle box contents too.

[deanmc]

I was checked a couple weeks back and the park officer (carson lake) was not so picky but he did say it was an officers discretion. At least the line test is something we can all try so we know if we are legal or not. I know it is strict but there has to be a line some were unless we are going to be satisfied with "discretion" I for one am not.

[AlbertaAngler]

Let a judge decide. If you feel you have followed the regulations to the best of your ability and to the same exent any other reasonable person would then you have a due diligence defence. The only thing you have to lose is time (I know it is probably more valuable then $200).

[Justflyfish4eva]

so what kind of line are you to use. a 7x tippet would get caught on any thing. 20 lb mono would slide over anything.
Anyway befor the hook hits the vise I crush the barb down first. or just buy barbless.

[valve god]

There is no place in this town I can find barbless hooks. I am going to doctor up some barbed hooks and go talk to a F&W officer to see which ones i can use. Time to break out the Dremel tool

[Drano]

Yes to bad he wrote you a ticket, but I think there should be something better than just discretion involved.

Good luck with this. Let us know what happens in the end.:wave:

[fishstix]

There is no place in this town I can find barbless hooks. I am going to doctor up some barbed hooks and go talk to a F&W officer to see which ones i can use. Time to break out the Dremel toolTry the fishing hole. I saw barbless on the website.

Fishstix

[fisher Gord]

I buy barbless hooks when I can, you can find more and more these days, and as AlbertaAngler said if you made an obvious attemp to pinch the barb, you have a defence, and no you do not Need to file your bard off, but thank you for posting your adventure on here and I hope it saves others from your troubles.

[randster]

I once asked a C.O. about de-barbing hooks, and he told us as long as you use due diligence to disable the barb, pinch or remove.
I've never heard of the file and line test thing before. That C.O. may have been in a bad mood that day.

[Dougie55]

Just last year while out fishing with a buddy, we were checked and the buddy got a ticket for a barbed hook. He had pinched the barb, and it was a stainless hook and the barb broke off. However where it broke left a little nub where it broke. After a lengthy discussion, he gave up and took the ticket. He challenged it in court, and the judge checked the hook out and dismissed the case. He also chastised the officer for what he said was a waste of the court't time for a charge that should not have been brought forward.
As far as time being worth more than the ticket, I am not sure about that. Once you have a charge against you, it sticks with you. I think I would fight it.
Just me though.

[lifesaflyin]

the fishin hole sells barbless. they are in the fly tying section. i did not see barbless trebles, but i was not looking for them.

[AxeMan]

Jeeze, fish cops getting picky over a pinched barb. Ticketing for a small nub or ridge. You would think they should have bigger fish to fry (pardon the pun). I've seen them let guys off with a warning at Carson with totally unpinched barbs. Not very professional or consistent IMHO. No doubt this law is a money maker for SRD.

[DarkAisling]

He had pinched the barb, and it was a stainless hook and the barb broke off.

I have this happen often. Nice to know there is precedent for this.

[valve god]

To take time off I would lose more money than it is worth to pay the fine. Min. of 3days away from work. If they want barbless hooks it should be stated in the regs that the barb should completely removed.
Just my opinion.........

[pecker]

To take time off I would lose more money than it is worth to pay the fine. Min. of 3days away from work. If they want barbless hooks it should be stated in the regs that the barb should completely removed.
Just my opinion.........

they can see if an attempt has been made to remove the barb . certainly a dremmel will do the trick-- but don't get carried away with 2 lb test catching a nick on your hook . ever try bending a barb back on a #12 or #14 hook without loosing the hook. :D just my opinion. :) :wave: TIGHT LINES & BARBS PINCHED BACK or whatever.:rolleyes: :wave:

[ice]

I Could See a loose obviously used hook with barbs remaining,
But would they go as far as Going at the hooks still in there original Packaging?
That would be rediculous,
i have seen F&W go through peoples tackle boxes before,

[DustDee]

i have seen F&W go through peoples tackle boxes before,

CO's or any other law enforcement officer has NO RIGHT to be looking through your tack box. That is your personal property and they can only open it up if they have a significant reason to believe that a crime is being committed in the tackle box. It is not against the law to have barbed hooks in the tackle box. If a CO asked to see inside my tackle box, I would ask him to provide a warrant and my lawyer before he could look inside.

As for your "barbed hook" I would take it to court. The last thing we need is law enforcement officers that think they have the right to determine what the law states. They do not. The courts do. There is no place where it states that the hook needs to pass the "line test" or the "doesn't snag my sweater test." Yes, your time is probably worth more than the ticket, but it is about more than a ticket. It is about your rights as a citizen.

[the local angler]

i have also encountered this type of situation and so far i have been lucky. one officer only told my to pinch one of the barbs down just a touch more and actually gave me advice on it. some other fisherman have told me some that are not as friendly and use the Q-tip test and runs it across the barb and if some of the fluf gets caught they have been issueing tickets. so far i have been having troubles with some of my smaller hooks because when i go to pinch the barb down the hook snaps. personally i would fight that kinda ticket cause i would feel mistreated.

[TangoKilo]

To take time off I would lose more money than it is worth to pay the fine. Min. of 3days away from work. If they want barbless hooks it should be stated in the regs that the barb should completely removed.
Just my opinion.........

How do you figure 3 Days away from work?

There is an option on the back of the ticket to plead not guilty by mail. Mail it in and the crown will send you a letter with a trial date. Attend the trial date and plead your case. Should only take one day by my math... am I missing something?

[MountainTi]

How do you figure 3 Days away from work?

There is an option on the back of the ticket to plead not guilty by mail. Mail it in and the crown will send you a letter with a trial date. Attend the trial date and plead your case. Should only take one day by my math... am I missing something?

I am working up north right now. I would have to travel south ( 1 day), time in court (1 day), travel back up north (1 day). By my math that is 3 days, perhaps that is what was meant. :)

[Nerdapres']

You have two options then, pay or fight it.

If you fight the ticket in court and the officer doesn't show up with the confiscated hook, you'll get off.

[go-big-or-go-home]

i would almost say that guy was being a dink. clearly a guy with a full tackle box of barbless hooks and by he chance finds one, outa the whole deal, still having a barb on the hook. buddy coulda (and shulda) jus said "oh, hey there fella, u still got one with a barb, here, ill even bend it for you, carry on gents have a good day". i dont know, but thats my idea of someone being a dink. sorry to here about ur rotten ticket man

[Wulfespirit]

Sounds like the officer might've had a chip on his shoulder. I'd like to see the hook before passing judgement completely but I might be inclined to face down the dip is court. As Axeman said - you'd think they'd have bigger fish to fry than hunting down a guy who's barbs weren't pinched quite as much as the officer wanted.

Got checked in Calling today .. super nice guy.. hooks were all pinched with pliers and no - he didn't check them with a magnifying glass to ensure there wasn't a micron of space between barb and hook.

[skidderman]

A good timely thread. Personally when Co's go the extent mentioned I feel they lose a lot of respect and in the end do more damage than good. I couldn't begin to count the stories I've heard of CO's having a so called, "bad day", with law abiding people. They have the right and should go unglued on those that purposely break the law but the kind of stuff mentioned here is harrassment from the very people we are supposed to respect. If I have to cary a dremel tool to file barbs off and use Q tips to inspect it I think I'll take up another sport!

[curious]

WOW, those are very interesting comment, I am curious about a few things, firstly we seem to be bouncing back and forth between CO's and F&W... can anyone tell me the difference, I believe it is significant but not sure. Secondly, it sounds this fish cop really did something wrong by looking through the tackle box. Can he get into a lot of trouble for that? It sounds like the poor fisherman who was wrongfully charged told the fish cop that he always presses the barbs down. I sure hope that fish cop was not looking through the tackle box to subtantiate the fisherman's claims... that would mean that he was looking for a way to use discretion not to write the ticket... someone earlier said that would be wrong...

What if the fisherman was actually having a bad day, not the fish cop... we should find out who that fish cop was, F&W or CO or whatever and ask him to post his thoughts on the whole interaction with our friend... I would very much be interested in hearing both sides of all these stories. And the so-called Line Test??? What is that, some kind of home made field test to help the fisherman beat the system??? Man imagine the Judges face when you take your $200 ticket into court and tell the judge that you did a line test on the hook like one CO showed you and the next guy writes you a ticket... can you imagine how quickly that ticket would get thrown out because you tested the line and did what was suggested??? Would that be sweet?? Oh and best of all, wouldn't that be good for the fish too, especially when you are releasing them... I am curious...

[AlbertaAngler]

No they are not the same. CO is used rather generically here because most other provinces have CO's.

In Alberta Fish and Wildlife Officers under Sustainable Resource Development are responsible for enforcement of the Wildlife Act and the various Fisheries Acts and regulations across the province (with a few exceptions and memorandums). Conservation Officers under Tourism, Parks and Recreation are responsible for the parks act in Provincial Parks and recreation areas. CO's are appointed under the Wildlife Act and Fisheries Act and generally will deal with these things while patrolling in a park or recreation area.

As for looking in the tackle box. There is a difference between searching and inspection. An officer has the right to inspect any container that he has reasonable grounds to believe has fishing equipment or fish.

[Okotokian]

I have no idea what the mental state of the officer in question was, but it seems to me a reasonable person would issue a fine where someone had not bothered to try to follow the law, but would simply advise and educate someone who was trying to follow the law (as evidenced by pinching the barb in the first plave) but had just not done the job quite up to the officer's standard. The latter approach would probably result in an "oh, ok. Thanks officer" from the "offender" and likely perfect barb pinching from then on.

[Wulfespirit]

I have no idea what the mental state of the officer in question was, but it seems to me a reasonable person would issue a fine where someone had not bothered to try to follow the law, but would simply advise and educate someone who was trying to follow the law (as evidenced by pinching the barb in the first plave) but had just not done the job quite up to the officer's standard. The latter approach would probably result in an "oh, ok. Thanks officer" from the "offender" and likely perfect barb pinching from then on.

X2

It's too bad that common sense and goodwill can't be taught to graduating COs.

The guy who checked us on Saturday up north was great. It'll be guys like him that unfortunately have tarnished names due to the wannabe Judge Dreads of F&W.

[curious]

Thank you for that explanation.

As I am new to this, I have read a lot of the threads to try to catch up. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the requirement for fishing barbless in Alberta has been around for many years, or am I mistaken? I read somewhere that it was implemented in 2002 or 2003 but am not sure. I also read somewhere that Alberta has a lot of fisherman, around 800 thousand (I think that was from the SRD website) but only 800 fishable bodies of what... most of which are struggling, have no fish in them, or have what the biologist refer to as low recruitment (what the “H” is that)... the long and the short of it is that our lakes and the fish in them are struggling. I am new to fishing but I think that removing a hook from a fish is a whole lot easier on the fish when the hook is barbless, please correct me if I am wrong. It also seems to me that the avid fishermen, much like the ones who share their comments on here, should be extremely concerned about the condition of our lakes and want to do everything possible to ensure that new fisherman such as myself actually have a fish to catch and eventually release.

I think the law has been in place long enough that the fisherman of Alberta, especially the avid ones, should know the law, understand the law, know how to comply with the law and respect that law, regardless of whether they agree with the law or not...

Some of the comments was that the “Dink”, referring to an officer who was there to ensure that your fish were being given the respect that they deserve, was having a ****y day or was on a power trip… there was also a comment that he had written several tickets for barbed hooks that day… what does that say about the type of respect that the so-called avid fishermen have for the fish they covet so dearly? If we care about the fish as much as we claim, wouldn’t we have a ****y day too if we found out that nobody was respecting our fish I am just curious…

[Wulfespirit]

This has little to do with agreeing with the law. It has to do with having undefined standards in regards to barbless hooks and officers seemingly being very eager to enforce their personal standard on someone trying to comply with the law. Furthermore, it has to do with the same type of officer taking these actions while other, more harmful actions (blatant poaching, sustenance netting for the purpose of sale (or waste)) against our fisheries receive inadequate attention.

The situation is analagous to a mountie pulling someone over and writing them up for going 101 kph in a 100 kph zone while people doing 140kph speed by.

If you believe that the OP was somehow not respecting fish or fisheries, you need to think again.

[AlbertaAngler]

Without being there it is very hard to offer any significant opinion. According to the original poster he had made the attempt to fish barbless. As is it is still hard to find lures with barbless hooks, the general rule is that a fisherman "pinches" the barbs with a pair of pliers. From the regulations includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional.

The question in this situation was that the officer was deciding whether the barbs were functional or not. Is there a standard method that F&W is using to determine this? Are officers across the province holding every angler to the same standard? Would a warning have gained future compliance?

[Okotokian]

Well I know my barbs are certainly pinched to the point of being non-functional. Never mind making it easier to release, I swear I lose more fish than I land when I'm fly fishing in particular.

[curious]

This has little to do with agreeing with the law. It has to do with having undefined standards in regards to barbless hooks and officers seemingly being very eager to enforce their personal standard on someone trying to comply with the law. Furthermore, it has to do with the same type of officer taking these actions while other, more harmful actions (blatant poaching, sustenance netting for the purpose of sale (or waste)) against our fisheries receive inadequate attention.

The situation is analagous to a mountie pulling someone over and writing them up for going 101 kph in a 100 kph zone while people doing 140kph speed by.

If you believe that the OP was somehow not respecting fish or fisheries, you need to think again.

Please forgive me and my naivety, I was under the impression that the law had defined the standard for a barbless hook… either it is functioning or it is not, I didn’t think it was possible to be almost pregnant… I really like the suggestion that I can use a line to run it over the barb to see if I have pressed it down enough.

I seem to remember reading a statistic somewhere that depending on the type of fish, 8 to 30 percent of all caught and released fish die after being released. It was reported that the number of dead fish increased if they were caught with a barbed hook and increased even more if caught during ice fishing and were exposed to the cold for any length of time. Apparently their eyes freeze very quickly and they eventually starve to death because they cannot see their prey. I’m not sure I buy that but whatever… I guess the question I have is how many people were fishing in Alberta this past weekend? How many fish were caught and released? I will just throw out a number to make math easy, let’s say 3000 fish. At that number between 240 to 900 fish died after they were released, according to the study anyway… Maybe the study was wrong, maybe it was less or more, I don’t know. That is a lot of fish!!! What if we could get that number even lower by ensuring that everyone used nothing but hooks that meet the requirement of the law?? How many fish were killed legally??? I know that my friends and I took 45 perch…

As for the more harmful actions, I didn’t realize that was going on this past weekend, sorry, like I said I am new to this. Do you think there were 240 to 900 fish illegally caught in nets? WOW that is just crazy!! Do the officers know where this is happening? If they don’t, why has nobody reported it to them? Was this going on around the area where the officers were working?

I guess respect for the fisheries is a relative thing, the poacher look at is as a way to make money, the office looks at it how…? One comment seemed to elude it is a way to make money for SRD (which everyone knows is ridicules because they get no funds from the tickets they write). Who has the biggest impact on the fish? Netters? Poachers? Fisherman? I would really like to know your thoughts… Just Curious…

[curious]

Would a warning have gained future compliance?

Have warnings been working for the past 6 or 7 years since the law was put in place?? If so then I agree, it may have done just that, if not then what?

[valve god]

I have no problem with barbless hooks! the regs are vague on the barbless hook.(as I stated earlier) I have practiced catch and release all the time when fishing even before size come in to effect. I care about our fish stock in alberta and have seen it dwindle over the 40 some years I have been fishing. It seems that the onus is put on the average angler to save the lake and the fish stock. The Pembina River has turned into a creek over the last 10 years growing more weeds in spots where 5 years ago there was great fishing spots, fertilizers maybe? How many fish and wildlife where killed when CNR dumped the bunker crude into Lake Wabamun? :huh: Swan Hills that is another story,regs say do not eat the fish around the waste plant. The bull trout is threatened is this because of overfishing or the streams that they spawn are gone or very little water left. Have you fished down stream of Edmonton in the North Sask. River after a big rain,be careful you could catch more than fish!!!!!
Again I have no problem with barbless hooks but the regs should be changed to say completly removed!!!!! Just my opinion:confused:

[Okotokian]

Please forgive me and my naivety, I was under the impression that the law had defined the standard for a barbless hook… either it is functioning or it is not, I didn’t think it was possible to be almost pregnant…

I think if you read the act again you will find no reference to catching line when run over it as being a test of the standard. The true test would be whether the barb has any power to hold a fish, not whether a piece of line snags on it or not.The particular officer chose to use that as a test, but it's not written anywhere that it is valid. In the case mentioned by Douggie55 the judge, in fact, ruled that it wasn't.


As for the more harmful actions, I didn’t realize that was going on this past weekend, sorry, like I said I am new to this. Do you think there were 240 to 900 fish illegally caught in nets? WOW that is just crazy!! Do the officers know where this is happening? If they don’t, why has nobody reported it to them? Was this going on around the area where the officers were working?


I have to admit you lost me here. What do nets have to do with this discussion? Do officers know where what is happening?

[Wulfespirit]

Curious,

Obviously you've already made up your mind and the sudden appearance of your account, quoting of statistics and regulations, and claims of being 'new' all seem a little off. You're making a huge effort to try and present your case in a passive aggressive way and are coming across with heaps of subtle sarcasm. I suspect you're alot more involved in angling in this province in one way or another than you're trying to appear to be.

With that said, there is at least one significant study out there that shows only a miniscule percentage difference in release mortality when using barbed vs. barbless hooks. I'm sure there are others that show a more significant difference. Perhaps more science is required to firm up your numbers.

Perhaps we also need a study to determine how a barb that's been pinched so that only a micron of space exists between the barb and the hook compares to hook that's been manufactured without a barb and one that is fully barbed too? Perhaps a new law should require anglers to purchase a piece of 2lb test in order to test each lure after pinching the barb should be mandated - that sounds like a law you'd like to see.

Did the illegal acquisition of large numbers of fish happen this weekend due to illegal angling/netting practices? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that it did. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that most F&W are well aware of the hotspots where these sorts of activities commonly occur. And I'll bet you more dollars to donuts that the amount of fish killed as a result outnumbered the ones saved by officers ticketing those like the OP this weekend.

Despire all that, I like seeing F&W officers out checking anglers. Just their appearance goes along way to curbing shady practices. But in truth, nitpicking little guys who tried to obey a law seems like a bad practice all around.

That's just my opinion.. correct me if I'm wrong and sorry for my naievity and all that. :)

Cheers!

[DarkAisling]

With that said, there is at least one significant study out there that shows only a miniscule percentage difference in release mortality when using barbed vs. barbless hooks. I'm sure there are others that show a more significant difference. Perhaps more science is required to firm up your numbers.

The study I read in great detail (but haven't been able to locate again), also indicated a very minimal difference in mortality rates between barbed and barbless hooks.

The study did indicate that the fish are more inclined to suffer ocular damage with the use of barbed hooks.

I did a heck of a lot of damage to a fish this weekend with a single barbless hook . . . more damage than I've ever done to a fish before: even when I used nothing but barbed treble hooks. At least it was legal to keep it. I don't think it would have survived.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Was fishing on Isle lake Fish and Wildlife come over and check us out. When he asked to see my hooks he found one that in his OPINON was still barbed. I have followed the barbless law since it was implemented years ago. According the the regs the barb must pressed against the shaft.Quote from regs:Barbless Hook – includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional.
He informed me that I have to file the barbs off the hook but no where in the regs it says this. He said if you run your line across the barb and it gets caught, it is still barbed. To make a long story short $200.00 later and a seized hook. So beware out there he had given out many of these tickets on that lake that day!!!!!:mad3::tongue2:

Oh Id fight that , take the Regulations where it states the the defenetion of a pinched barb . I myself use Fly fishing Forceps pinches that barb , ive had hooks inspected by several fish and wildlife officers and Conservation officers to say thats the best darn job they had seen . I kind of take pride in that .

[DustDee]

x2 wulfespirit

[Okotokian]

You're making a huge effort to try and present your case in a passive aggressive way and are coming across with heaps of subtle sarcasm. !

Oh come on Wulfie. Don't spoil the fun. If we eliminated passive aggressive sarcasm how would we ever have any fun on this board? ;):D It still beats calling the other poster a "*&#^! moron" like some here favour.

[Wulfespirit]

Oh come on Wulfie. Don't spoil the fun. If we eliminated passive aggressive sarcasm how would we ever have any fun on this board? ;):D It still beats calling the other poster a "*&#^! moron" like some here favour.

I'd rather have someone call me nasty profane names than try and accomplish the same under the guise of subtle sarcasm and polite soapboxing. But you have a point.. he -did- get me to write a post 400 times longer than my average one. :D

[curious]

HA HA HA... it seems I have stirred the pot a bit by not jumping on the bandwagon and agreeing with everyone else!! I don't know about you, but some may say that creating thought instead of negativity is a good thing.

I must agree with VG… so many places in the world that were once paradises, are now wastelands. I am told that Alberta has a few, including those mentioned by VG. I have not read the law, but maybe the words “completely removed” needs to be there.

Douggie55 did mention something about a “Judge” scolding an officer… was that F&W or CO, DFO, Stream Watch, CPS, EPS? What level of court was that? Where did this happen? What experience did the “Judge” have with fishing? Is the term “Judge” used generically here to refer to any person who sits at the bench in a court room? Much like CO is used generically to refer to a wide range of people employed by the government who may or may not work with the resource? Was it even a “Judge” or simply a clerk of the court who passed a test that allowed them to hear traffic tickets? Maybe the “Judge” was actually a lawyer who sits on the bench once in a while and had received a ticket for a barbed hook and didn’t think he deserved it either? There is so much to each of these stories that we don’t know.

I must say however that I have no case to prove and have not made up my mind about anything… maybe Wulfespirit is right, maybe I don’t belong on here. I don’t seem to take what others say at face value… I don’t like to bitch and complain about how someone has not done their job properly and I don’t think that the officer is trying to ruin my day when I get checked fishing, even when I get a ticket for having a couple of beer on the ice (my fault and I paid the ticket thank you very much). And I appreciate when someone provides me a method of self checking my hooks (thank you Valve God for posting that). As for laws that I like or dislike??? I don’t have feelings one way or the other, if a law does not seem to meet the needs of the people it should be changed by the people. I understand that Alberta has recently had a cabinet change, perhaps a change to the regulations should be made… do you think that everyone would be legal then? Would 6 or 7 more years have to pass before the fishermen of Alberta start complying with that law?

[curious]

Oh come on Wulfie. Don't spoil the fun. If we eliminated passive aggressive sarcasm how would we ever have any fun on this board? ;):D It still beats calling the other poster a "*&#^! moron" like some here favour.

Thanks for making me feel welcome!! ::lol:

[Wulfespirit]

Thanks for making me feel welcome!! ::lol:

Welcome!! :D

When you play devil's advocate, people sometimes see you as the devil. Not many anglers want to go through a 300 step techincal process to ensure they're legal before, during, and after hitting the water for an afternoon of some fishing fun. So when step number 234 resulted in a hook that was only 96.3% compliant to the rules and the person got ticketed for it, he was rightfully a bit unhappy about it.

Most people seem to think that the officer's actions in this thread were a bit questionable if we assume the OP's story to be accurate. Most people understand why too. You're smart enough to know that. :)

[DarkAisling]

HA HA HA... it seems I have stirred the pot a bit by not jumping on the bandwagon and agreeing with everyone else!! I don't know about you, but some may say that creating thought instead of negativity is a good thing.

I have an IQ of 138. I'm in engineering and am university educated. I'm well versed in literature, comparative religion, mathematics, physics, and a host of other things.

I've studied quantum mechanics, and what you are creating in my head is confusion: not thought. I'm left thinking "what the hell is this dude rambling on about?"

No one has said anything about hooks not needing to be barbless. I've never fished with anyone from this forum who doesn't flatten the barbs. The problem is that there is some ambiguity with the way the regulation is enforced. THAT'S IT.

[curious]

Not many anglers want to go through a 300 step techincal process to ensure they're legal before, during, and after hitting the water for an afternoon of some fishing fun. So when step number 234 resulted in a hook that was only 96.3% compliant to the rules and the person got ticketed for it, he was rightfully a bit unhappy about it.

Most people seem to think that the officer's actions in this thread were a bit questionable if we assume the OP's story to be accurate. Most people understand why too. You're smart enough to know that. :)


Who the hell said I was smart??? :innocent: I am just asking questions.... As for the 300 steps, well you are right, me included, but if we don't like a law find a way to change it. Kill all the fish, protect all the fish, shoot all the moose, protect all the moose, barbed / barbless I have my opinion, who cares, whatever the law is we need to be prepared to take all 300 steps or risk getting a ticket ($115.00 for a BEER!!) or simply don't go! Same goes for hunting, driving, owning a house, having kids, keeping a dog, farming etc... No sarcasm intended.

[Okotokian]

I have an IQ of 138. I'm in engineering and am university educated. I'm well versed in literature, comparative religion, mathematics, physics, and a host of other things. I've studied quantum mechanics...

You know, I bet some counselling could get you over that low self-esteem problem you have.

I'm kidding, KIDDING! :lol: :D
You're just a normal engineer. ;)

[Okotokian]

, maybe I don’t belong on here...

Now don't go all weepy on us. We just disagree with you and think you are wrong. No big deal. Happens to all of us from time to time. Buck up. :wave:

[curious]

I have an IQ of 138. I'm in engineering and am university educated. I'm well versed in literature, comparative religion, mathematics, physics, and a host of other things.

I've studied quantum mechanics, and what you are creating in my head is confusion: not thought. I'm left thinking "what the hell is this dude rambling on about?"

No one has said anything about hooks not needing to be barbless. I've never fished with anyone from this forum who doesn't flatten the barbs. The problem is that there is some ambiguity with the way the regulation is enforced. THAT'S IT.

WOW, I'm just a poor farmer, having my ramblings read by a God Like you makes me think that I am not worthy of having an opinion...

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT ONE POOR FISHERMAN WAS PICKED ON BY A MEAN OLD FISH COP WITH A "CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER" WHO WAS TRYING TO BE A "DINK" ABOUT A LAW THAT HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR 7 YEARS!

I could call one of my lawyer friends and get him to write for me if I am talking at to low of a level...

[curious]

Now don't go all weepy on us. We just disagree with you and think you are wrong. No big deal. Happens to all of us from time to time. Buck up. :wave:

Is this where some people start to use profanity and call each other &^%* morons?

[Crusty]

Curious, you are absolute pain in the butt and seem to be here just to annoy. Goodbye.

[Okotokian]

Is this where some people start to use profanity and call each other &^%* morons?

Yes. Get with the program newbie. :wave:

[curious]

Yes. Get with the program newbie. :wave:

HA HA HA HA!!!!! Resistance is Futile!! I must conform or leave?? Sorry for being a pain in the butt, guess nobody forced anyone to read... HA HA HA!! :wave:

[Okotokian]

HA HA HA HA!!!!! Resistance is Futile!! I must conform or leave?? Sorry for being a pain in the butt, guess nobody forced anyone to read... HA HA HA!! :wave:

Oh please. You asked "Is this where some people start to use profanity and call each other &^%* morons?" and I jokingly replied "Yes. Get with the program newbie. :wave: "
Sheesh.

[curious]

Oh please. You asked "Is this where some people start to use profanity and call each other &^%* morons?" and I jokingly replied "Yes. Get with the program newbie. :wave: "
Sheesh.

I got it... really I did :) I was actually refering to a previous comment by one of the other posters... I actully laughed pretty hard when I read yours...

[beerhonky]

The trick I use when taking a barb off is to sqeeze the barb with a pair of pliers and then with my free hand role the hook back and forth. 99% of the time this causes the barb to break off.

[Okotokian]

Geez, I'm just glad that you can actually buy barbless hooks somewhere! I actually didn't realize there were any available. Will save having to remember to pinch. Never been to the Fishing hole before. Have to check it out.

[Wulfespirit]

There's a few barbless hooks out there but selection is pretty limited. Good luck if you're trying to find barbless brand name lures..

For the forseeable future, pliers will have to do.. which means "dinks with chips on their shoulders" will wield far too much power for now. :D

[valve god]

There's a few barbless hooks out there but selection is pretty limited. Good luck if you're trying to find barbless brand name lures..

For the forseeable future, pliers will have to do.. which means "dinks with chips on their shoulders" will wield far too much power for now. :D

from now on i will dremel the barb off this way there is no chance again:)

[curious]

which means "dinks with chips on their shoulders" will wield far too much power for now. :D

Fortunately there is a place where the victims of the ticket writing power hungry can come to seek sympathy and vindication from their peers... :lol:

[alacringa]

The trick I use when taking a barb off is to sqeeze the barb with a pair of pliers and then with my free hand role the hook back and forth. 99% of the time this causes the barb to break off.

Same thing I do -- although not sure if it breaks off or flattens agains the hook.

[AxeMan]

Fortunately there is a place where the victims of the ticket writing power hungry can come to seek sympathy and vindication from their peers... :lol:

Yup, peers that have some common sense in their heads. You seem to think it is funny that someone got a $200 ticket for trying honestly to comply with the law.

[Fishfinder]

Is this where some people start to use profanity and call each other &^%* morons?

Yup. and then they get booted. Careful where u tread buds. Alot u could learn here on this forum. Don't spoil it for urself:lol::wave:

[curious]

You seem to think it is funny that someone got a $200 ticket for trying honestly to comply with the law.

I find no humour in anyone receiving a ticket. I however have no issue with someone receiving a ticket for failing to comply with a law... me included... :( We each have the same right to be heard in a court room where we might find a 138 IQ that supports our plea.

[mooseknuckle]

There's a few barbless hooks out there but selection is pretty limited. Good luck if you're trying to find barbless brand name lures..

For the forseeable future, pliers will have to do.. which means "dinks with chips on their shoulders" will wield far too much power for now. :D

Len Thompson sells them their located in lacombe. Every year my company purchases custom spoons with our logo on them and they are always barbless I believe they will sell you just the hooks in bulk aswell. The cost of 100 spoons 2 color with our logo on them was like $3 each thats cheaper than retail at say canadian tire they shippe em free aswell.:wave:

http://www.lenthompson.com/

[Wulfespirit]

Len Thompson sells them their located in lacombe. Every year my company purchases custom spoons with our logo on them and they are always barbless I believe they will sell you just the hooks in bulk aswell. The cost of 100 spoons 2 color with our logo on them was like $3 each thats cheaper than retail at say canadian tire they shippe em free aswell.:wave:

http://www.lenthompson.com/

I have a few Len Thompsons in my box but they don't get wet alot. I watch for barbless versions of the lures I frequent but haven't found a single one yet.

[Tony_S]

we might find a 138 IQ that supports our plea.

Hmmm...apparently your still feeling the burn of 'having your azz handed to you' by Shelley.

Sorry to interrupt....carry on...yer doin' great!

[mooseknuckle]

I have a few Len Thompsons in my box but they don't get wet alot. I watch for barbless versions of the lures I frequent but haven't found a single one yet.

Well pm with your address and I'll throw a few in the mail for you if you want:wave: Unless your in the edmonton area. Or if your out fishing in the area let me know... if you don't mind the company.:wave:

[curious]

Hmmm...apparently your still feeling the burn of 'having your azz handed to you' by Shelley.


As a simple farmer I have access to great vet supplies, including some of the best ointments to help with the burn! :lol::lol::lol:

[Team Beef]

Ok you got me. Read all through this post and thought what the H3ll I would call my good friend, a CO ( F&W Officer of 25 years). As what I believed before still exists. First of all, it is NOT an offence to have a barbed hook attached to your line, in your tackle box or on your person. It is only unlawful to USE such hook in the act of fishing. Once you put said barbed hook into the water then you are considered "in the act of fishing". Also a F&W officer only has the right to ask to see your tackle box unless he can tell you upfront he "suspects you are hiding fish or illegal bait there". Of course for some "fisherpersons" that could mean acoholic beverages too.
Otherwise it is considered Private Property and subject to the need of a search warrant. As for the "Barbless" rule he told me that it is up to the Officer to use his judgement as to determine if the "Barb" is still intact. What he also said that as long as the barb is pinched as close as possible it is considered removed. His determination is if he "could see a gap" then the barb exists. I asked him about the stainless hooks and Gamakatsus that sometimes end up snapping the barb off and leaving a tiny bump. To this he told me that to be barbed the "angle of the bump must not be greater than 90degrees toward the bend of the hook. His opinion toward this type of hook would be "the angler attempted to comply with the rules and regulations" and would only suggest that maybe the hook be discarded (a warning a worst). I know, YES some Officers can have a bad day and take it out on compliant anglers. Unfortunate the we, that abide by the laws can get caught unwittingly and pay the price for his having to deal with those that do not follow good practises.
Good luck everyone, tight lines and be safe on the ice or water.

PS - personally I would fight the ticket, PRINCIPALS MATTER.

[curious]

call my good friend, a CO ( F&W Officer of 25 years)

I would be very interested to hear what comments your friend the F&W Officer would have after reading this thread... have you invited him to drop by?

[Wulfespirit]

I would be very interested to hear what comments your friend the F&W Officer would have after reading this thread... have you invited him to drop by?

Undoubtedly he'd provide some stock answers... saying that a) he had to be there to see the hook in question for himself and b) it would be a judgement call by the officer who, like most people, aren't perfect and may occasionally have bad days and/or miake mistakes.

What would you expect him to say? For obvious reasons a F&W officer would never publicly cut down another.

[Fishfinder]

Oops, I never did comment on the original thread:lol: Got sidetracked by gibberish. Anyway, the only FW officer that ever checked me did the ol sweater test. Ran my hooks through his sleeve and pulled them out with ease. Had they not come out, I woulda failed. But they did:)
It seems there are alot of different methods used to determine what is proper. Like some have already stated, the problem lies in the discretion. Every officer needs to test all hooks the same way so EVERYONE is on the same boat. And this needs to be a much clearer topic in the regs. My 2 cents.
Cheers:wave:

P.S. - sry to hear about ur ticket Valve. Guy was bein an arse for sure. Hope that tiny little p.r.i.c.k. he found drew some blood at least:lol::lol:

[BH1]

I know that you can buy single barbless hooks made by gamakatsu, which you can buy at the fishin hole. As well if anyone worried about there hook being barbed if you happen to have a Rotary tool, with a small head, you can easily take the barb off. Did some today to try, took like 10 seconds for a hook.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I dont know the more and more I read this thread makes me wonder , thats theres definitely gotta be more to the story . Man I fish ALot Ask anyone who knows me . I get checked id say on average 10 to 40 times a year , maybe more . Ive never had a problem with pinched hooks , As I always use forceps to pinch the barb , but even in times Ive fished with someone that it might not quite be up to par , They even dont go straight for the fine . Unless you became balegerant , or rude or something else to the story , Fish and Wildlife officer Chances are they are going to say Look this is how you need to have your barbs . I dont think I believe this story . Maybe a little more to the story then whats been shared.

[Jimboy]

What a strange world we live in , barbs were made to keep the fish from getting off the hook , now this generation wants us to make it easier for the fish to GET OFF , and not get hurt in the process of release while you kiss them and say thank you fish , good grief.

[The Elkster]

I would follow up the ticket in court IF all happened as stated. Something tells me a judge would laugh the charge out of court if he saw the hook with a clearly bent barb. Of all the things to waste a judges time on me thinks he/she would not be too impressed with the officer.

I'm wondering if any increase in enforcement may be a result of some pressure from higher up to generate more cash. Kinda like the traffic ticket quota's that don't exist ;)

While barbless isn't the end all be all I think the cumulative effect of some of these rules is gonna create a death by a thousand cuts to fishing. For anyone thinking about getting into the pasttime I'm not sure they'll see the value through all the BS. I wonder how many newbies and their kids have been fined for honest mistakes and just thrown in the towel.

[DarkAisling]

You know, I bet some counselling could get you over that low self-esteem problem you have.

:lol: You're correct, no self esteem problems here :)

WOW, I'm just a poor farmer, having my ramblings read by a God Like you makes me think that I am not worthy of having an opinion...

Goddess :)

My point with that was that I'm an educated, intelligent, woman who is very good a disseminating a variety of different types of information . . . but not your posts.

The problem is that you're bringing data that many of us consider faulty in to support an argument that is already supported. You're interjecting data that has nothing to do with the subject of barbed hooks. And, in a lot of ways your preaching to the choir, but you don't seem to understand this.

Your point becomes lost in all of that.

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT ONE POOR FISHERMAN WAS PICKED ON BY A MEAN OLD FISH COP WITH A "CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER" WHO WAS TRYING TO BE A "DINK" ABOUT A LAW THAT HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR 7 YEARS!

No, it isn't. That was one of the hypotheses put forth. I think a better summation would be that there are inconsistencies in the way the law is enforced, and that there are also inconsistencies in what individual F&W officers look for in flattened barbs.

Valve God attempted to comply, and the officer determined his efforts weren't good enough. Did Valve God demonstrate due diligence, or was the officer just being an @$$?

This is what causes confusion and concern. F&W officers can be jerks. They can also be really great and helpful.

[curious]

now this generation wants us to make it easier for the fish to GET OFF

in order that the next generation has a fish to catch...

[curious]

I dont know the more and more I read this thread makes me wonder , thats theres definitely gotta be more to the story... then whats been shared.

It sure would be nice to hear both sides wouldn't it?

I'm with you Big, press'em down, grind'em off and make sure it is correct... :lol::lol::wave:

[Okotokian]

My point with that was that I'm an educated, intelligent, woman who is very good a disseminating a variety of different types of information . . .

Stop it, I'm getting turned on. :lol: Wait a minute... that's what "disseminating" means? Nevermind. ;)

[curious]

I'm wondering if any increase in enforcement may be a result of some pressure from higher up to generate more cash.

Does anyone actually believe that a bunch of dumb fish cops could ever write enough tickets to generate meaningful money for the government??? There are about 115+/- fish cops in Alberta... the provincial deficit is what? All the tickets written in a year by F&W likely wouldn't pay for the premier's cars!!!

[curious]

:lol: I think a better summation would be that there are inconsistencies in the way the law is enforced, and that there are also inconsistencies in what individual F&W officers look for in flattened barbs. .

Fortunately life isn't fair... law enforcement is not done the same by all peace officers and sentencing is not consistant from all Judges and different courts look at crime differently, right or wrong...

A violator in High Prairie receives a $25000 fine in a High Prairie court for keeping walleye, his partner appears in Calgary and for the same offence and same circumstances receives $400.00...

Inconsistancy is the spice of life is it not? We need to do like Big said... then we will all be consistant and there will be no room for interpretation.

[valve god]

I dont know the more and more I read this thread makes me wonder , thats theres definitely gotta be more to the story . Man I fish ALot Ask anyone who knows me . I get checked id say on average 10 to 40 times a year , maybe more . Ive never had a problem with pinched hooks , As I always use forceps to pinch the barb , but even in times Ive fished with someone that it might not quite be up to par , They even dont go straight for the fine . Unless you became balegerant , or rude or something else to the story , Fish and Wildlife officer Chances are they are going to say Look this is how you need to have your barbs . I dont think I believe this story . Maybe a little more to the story then whats been shared.valve god
maybe he did not like the fact when he pulled up to us I said good afternoon mr. fish and wildlife officer I don't know.( was in plain clothes) Maybe he was the officer that I had a heated disscusion about me hunting with my wife who is status indian, I think so. I may not get checked 10-40 times in a year but the other times which have been maybe 5 a year I had no problems.
The point I was trying to make is the was to let people know he was out there looking and to make sure they are following the law. The regs should state REMOVE BARB COMPLETLY then there will be no room for mistake.
I am polite to all law enforcement until they become rude to me. I have worked beside these men for years and respect them and the job they have to do. But this is only my opinion:)

[curious]

to let people know he was out there looking and to make sure they are following the law.

Valve God, I am sorry I stirred up so much loon sh*t on this, I am sure that you were very polite and are each time you interact with an officer.

I guess I wounder why people would have to be told an officer was out looking... is that what is necessary for fishermen to want to following the law?

But I thank you for the reminder nonetheless...

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

valve god
maybe he did not like the fact when he pulled up to us I said good afternoon mr. fish and wildlife officer I don't know.( was in plain clothes) Maybe he was the officer that I had a heated disscusion about me hunting with my wife who is status indian, I think so. I may not get checked 10-40 times in a year but the other times which have been maybe 5 a year I had no problems.
The point I was trying to make is the was to let people know he was out there looking and to make sure they are following the law. The regs should state REMOVE BARB COMPLETLY then there will be no room for mistake.
I am polite to all law enforcement until they become rude to me. I have worked beside these men for years and respect them and the job they have to do. But this is only my opinion:)

Humm Sounds like an Undercover Fish And Wildlife officer .

Well then if thats the Case Id be Going to court to fight the ticket .

The Regulations say

General Sportfishing Restrictions
It Is Unlawful To:

Use a hook that is not a barbless hook. (Click here for definition of barbless hook.)

The definition of Barbless Hook – includes a hook the barbs of which are pressed against the shaft of the hook so that the barbs are not functional .

And now if you Have done so , Fight it . There are so many Inconsistency's with what might be interpreted to as '' BARBLESS'' . I hope things get Squared away .

[Okotokian]

Valve God, I am sorry I stirred up so much loon sh*t on this, I am sure that you were very polite and are each time you interact with an officer.

I guess I wounder why people would have to be told an officer was out looking... is that what is necessary for fishermen to want to following the law?

But I thank you for the reminder nonetheless...

Man, this thread sure was your coming-out party, wasn't it? I'm curious now though... how come so active on this thread and yet no comments on any other thread, ever? In fact you just showed up the day after this thread appeared. If I was a more suscpicious person I'd think.... :lol:

[curious]

Man, this thread sure was your coming-out party, wasn't it? I'm curious now though... how come so active on this thread and yet no comments on any other thread, ever? In fact you just showed up the day after this thread appeared. If I was a more suscpicious person I'd think.... :lol:

:lol::lol: A guy has to make a mark sometime... I've been reading the threads for a few months now and thought this one was pretty interesting. Nothing to be suscpicious of, WFN had a show where the host was talking about sharpening the hooks and barbs, then he put a live minnow on the hook before chucking it into the water... seemed odd to me. Commenting here just seemed a little timely, especially after getting checked last weekend and my hooks were checked. Maybe I will keep my keyboard to myself for a while...

Its been fun!:wave:

[Wulfespirit]

Are you threatening to leave again? Whatever would we do...... :D

[curious]

Are you threatening to leave again? Whatever would we do...... :D

Not leaving... just recovering. I will be back! With Avengance!!! :evilgrin: LOL

[WayneChristie]

:lol::lol: A guy has to make a mark sometime... I've been reading the threads for a few months now and thought this one was pretty interesting. Nothing to be suscpicious of, WFN had a show where the host was talking about sharpening the hooks and barbs, then he put a live minnow on the hook before chucking it into the water... seemed odd to me. Commenting here just seemed a little timely, especially after getting checked last weekend and my hooks were checked. Maybe I will keep my keyboard to myself for a while...

Its been fun!:wave:

Surprised you didnt comment on this exact topic last time it was going on, it wasnt very long ago. pretty much all the same posts :) and Id be careful calling Fish Cops dumb, Im pretty sure they need a good education to get where they are. The whole point of this thread, and the last, and the one before, is that there needs to be a specific way to determine if a hook is indeed barbless, not left up to the specific officer to determine as he sees fit that particular day. One way equally enforced by all, regardless of mood or circumstances, you fail, you pay the fine. no questions asked. A law left up to someones interpretation or discretion is not a law, its a suggestion.

[Jimboy]

in order that the next generation has a fish to catch...

Well me grand pappy kept all his fish and so did the other grand pappys before him ,and we still have fish today .

[gatorhunter]

I'm a Game Warden and an avid angler. Manitoba has been completely barbless since the early 1990s. It is illegal to have a barbed hook attached to a line or to use a barbed hook while angling.

Pinched, broken, filed or left over nub, a hook is either barbed or it isn't. It is obvious when someone has made an effort to "debarb" their hook. If the hook could have been "debarbed" better then it's good enforcement to get the angler to pinch it better. No ticket necessary.

I can tell you that I've checked thousands of anglers since the early 90s. Everyone knows that MB is barbless yet there are still many who cut their lines when they see us coming. In my District we can easily write at least 1 barbed hook ticket per day.

My kids have never fished with barbed hooks yet they catch trophy walleyes, sturgeon, catfish and gators. There are no excuses for using barbed hooks in barbless jurisdictions. In fact barbless hooks are so user friendly that I have never understood why any jurisdiction would still use barbed hooks. Nobody goes to the hospital to get barbless hooks removed from various body parts in MB.

[The Elkster]

Nope and traffic ticket fines don't pay all the police costs either but they certainly don't hurt the cause. Regardless I know a cop who was suspended for refusing to cater to the unwritten quota's. I'm not saying its a goldmine or scam but there is certainly pressure to reach certain "goals". Pressure to make some targets would explain more aggressive F&W tactics.

[curious]

Well me grand pappy kept all his fish and so did the other grand pappys before him ,and we still have fish today .

WHAT???? You can not seriously think that??? What planet have you been on??? Guys help out here before I say something to get me into trouble!!!

[Freedom55]

All this debate over the best way to keep a worm from wriggling off the hook?
I get the feeling that the F&W guy has demonstrated that he, unlike a bunch of you, can make a mistake in his work. Get over yourself and try a little self discipline.
BTW. When I moved to Saskatchewan earlier this year I did not rush out and replace all the lures in my substantial collection with barbed hooks. My success rate at landing hooked fished has not diminished and I don't worry about this matter when I am either fishing in another jurisdiction (MB & AB) or at a trophy trout lake in this province. However, when I travel to B.C. I have to replace all the trebles with singles and that costs a little more than a wee amount of effort to mash a barb, which I am still doing. Typically I carry a permit for the three most western provinces but this year I did not purchase an off-shore for BC so I went fishing in MB instead.
Seems to me that the reason that Alberta F&W officers are now armed is the belligerence and hostility that they have endured over the years, including threats to their lives when they encounter poachers, some of whom are also armed.

[valve god]

WHAT???? You can not seriously think that??? What planet have you been on??? Guys help out here before I say something to get me into trouble!!!

Well Curious I am with you on this one. Fished with my dad for years and never forgot one thing he said " If you take every fish you catch whats left for your childern and your grand childern" Kinda makes sense to me.....:confused:

[billycap]

Lol good thread... my question is this....
There is all this talk about where you can get a few barbless hooks right? So if the law went barbless years ago why are there only a few? The only way you can use barbed hooks is to own a private water body... So why are the shelves still stocked to the 9's with barbed hooks? Why... because its more profitable (and easy)to give the common guy a $200 ticket than it is to take on a name brand box store into bringing new fishing gear...
Do i think it f&w's fault.....nope...what about the guy fishing with his barbs not pinched enough....nope
I blame wallmart and cambodian tire!
Also if the government does not like their income from barbed hooks they would be putting more pressure on retailers to bring in legal fishin gear!

[Fishfinder]

WHAT???? You can not seriously think that??? What planet have you been on??? Guys help out here before I say something to get me into trouble!!!

Wow, ur still here.:huh: after insulting, well, pretty much everyone...I throw my boot at u. Shoo Shoo U. :mad2: U offer nothing useful here so again I plead...Go away. Maybe come back after ur al gwown up. :mad2::tongue2:

[bukwild]

Guys I was out at Isle on the weekend too and I was also checked. In fact I was checked by the uniformed officer who then stayed to shoot the bull for a few minutes wherein he stated that barbed hooks have been a problem at that lake for a couple of years. 45 minutes go by and an undercover officer shows up and talks for a while, his partner comes by 10 minutes later and they both state the same thing as the first. First off I would like to say that, although thorough, all the officers were well mannered. I believe that they may have handed out a couple of tickets to make a point that may not be getting made in the area. Also I have always used the pinch and twist method of de-barbing and have never had a problem with F&W nor has it affected my loss rate. I personally can't believe that after seven years people are still not compliing with the law.

P.S. If it was pinched, fight it! it's your responsibility hold officers to the regs.
P.P.S. If the Officer didn't hang on to your lure or does not show up you win.

[curious]

Wow, ur still here.:huh: after insulting, well, pretty much everyone...I throw my boot at u. Shoo Shoo U. :mad2: U offer nothing useful here so again I plead...Go away. Maybe come back after ur al gwown up. :mad2::tongue2:

Profound and inpiring... I will be happy to stay just to ensure you have something else to complain about!!

[Granrey]

Sorry for bumping this but noobs like me might find this tread very informative.

I actually notice the info on the regs. However, I made the wrong assumption of thinking that store bought hooks were all legal.

Anyways, to my surprise all my hooks are illegal, even though I bought them recently. The good thing is that I know how to fix them now.

[gui]

bass pro shop in cross iron mall has some barbless hooks, just if anyone wants to know

[mszomola]

I'm definitely new to the concept of pinching barbs. However I wouldn't file them down or dremel them because heat causes metal to soften and weaken overall . You might as well just start throwing plastic hooks at that point ...


The barbless law kinda needs to go imo , especially if its causing this much trouble . No one is happy to pinch barbs on their $20 plugs . Besides the fact , i think if theres a problem with fish mortality is because people lack the ability to properly handle fish or carry the proper tools to remove hooks and deep hooks.


And i have another bone to pick at this point which is your size slot for keeping fish. I have never heard of allowing bigger fish to be kept as a "good" idea...

Walleye over 50 cm ? how bout the exact opposite with a minimum. Leave your big fish to spawn and produce numbers and successors , let the mid sized fish be dinner ....

[SushiUnagi]

I really think they should stop selling hooks with barbs in Alberta completely or start carrying barbless hooks on all lures/rigs throughout 90% in all store throughout the province. 90% only because I'm sure there's people who will argue they want to buy a lure/rig that will be used outside of AB. Otherwise I would suggest 100%.

That will help eliminate/lower the chances of anyone forgetting or just don't know its a law and end up getting a ticket.

[mszomola]

I agree , don't allow the sale of barbed hooks in the first place.

[chubbdarter]

we are way way too small a market for that to happen anytime soon.... Call normark they will tell you to buy some pliers and pinch them yourself

[tacklerunner]

we are way way too small a market for that to happen anytime soon.... Call normark they will tell you to buy some pliers and pinch them yourself

Agreed. Yes we may be a minority but an educated and intellegent minority. As a business man, I could not imagine producing and selling barbless hooks until the majority of North America demanded them. A company would have to charge more for barbless hooks and the public would choose to de-barb them themselves; and yes I know there are a few barbless hooks on the market.

[chubbdarter]

barbless hooks on the shelf are also more money, because of production runs. pliers are cheap. if you make stores carry both options on each lure the store will be huge.
alberta is a small market..heck canada is a small market

[tacklerunner]

Haha funny Chub. Posted at the same time. Is there an echo in here?

[chubbdarter]

p.s. please dont say all hooks should be barbless and the rest of the world should have to add barbs

[chubbdarter]

Haha funny Chub. Posted at the same time. Is there an echo in here?


im older...delete yours buddy.lol

[yada]

My friend got a ticket for havin barbed hooks in his tackle box
he went to court and got that guy fired for personal property or something, its part of the canadain charter or something
he studied law

[Crossfire]

This is my opinion i would definately fight it in court if you pinched and i would be absolutely outraged if he searched my box and gave me a ticket for all the barbed hooks considering it is legal in saskatchewan to fish barbed if he confiscated my lures it would be over a $2000 loss for all my barbed lures. They have no right at all to confiscate lures in your box that are barbed and not in use. Alot of the times when i am fishing i will try one of my lures and debarb it when im ready to fish. I have been checked a few times and no problems for just simply squeezed barbs. Sounds like he was having a bad day If you can take him to court. I Personally think that they should make a huge change to our fishing laws and regulations. I Love fishing in Alberta dont get me wrong but i feel saskatchewan has a far superior fishing system and conservation plan and wish some of the things would be implemented in alberta. Alberta has been ruining some of the lakes by taking away catch limits and making it a draw system. Sure Pigeon Lake is fun and you can go and catch hundreds of fish per day but they are way overstocked and beginning to get diseased and sick the last few times i have fished there over 25% of the walleye were seriously under fed and alot were growing sists and tumors they really need to put a limit on the lake and have a more manageable fish population even if it is only one fish per person i personally rarely keep fish but think it would be extremely good for the lakes populations and to allow the fish to grow faster and be healthier. Pigeon Lake is just one example Pinehurst is another up and comer pinehurst was always a aewsome place to fish and catch nice walleye but now since the limit is 0 without tag it will overpopulate and all you will be able to catch is small underfed walleye . Alberta Needs A change and needs to learn some things from saskatchewan.

[Crossfire]

I really think they should stop selling hooks with barbs in Alberta completely or start carrying barbless hooks on all lures/rigs throughout 90% in all store throughout the province. 90% only because I'm sure there's people who will argue they want to buy a lure/rig that will be used outside of AB. Otherwise I would suggest 100%.

That will help eliminate/lower the chances of anyone forgetting or just don't know its a law and end up getting a ticket.


Rapalas are expensive enough with barbs and making them barbless would make me have to pay extra here and fish barbless is sask where it is legal

[Scott N]

The barbless law was one of the stupid things that Ralph's World brought us.

[buckman]

As far as I am concerned the whole barbless issue is bull. The idea of the barb is to keep the fish on.(so we can release them if we choose)

I have lived and fished in England where most of the fishing is catch and release,many of the fish have been named by anglers after being caught so often.Most of these fish were caught on barbed hooks and survived.

The barbless rule is just another tool for the nit picking type of CO to nail you with if he or she fee linclined.

Whats next(perhaps we could hunt using knockout darts for big game then let them go after we take a few pics)

[SushiUnagi]

The barbless law was one of the stupid things that Ralph's World brought us.

Cannot agree more

[yada]

Cannot agree more

x2

[SushiUnagi]

Not 100% certain if it was engine oil I was reading, been a long time since then, but it was said that if a company mandatorily requires their engine to use a specific type of oil and nothing else otherwise it voids the warranty, then that company is lawfully required to provide engine oil free of charge to owners/users of that engine.

The same should apply to this AB barbless hook law. AB should provide barbless hooks free of charge otherwise they cannot fine anyone not using it. Completely ludicrous.

[chubbdarter]

so for all the gun hunters that want to hunt in a bow only zone....the government should buy them all a bow?

where do you think the money would come from if the government would start handing out barbless hooks?

[yada]

i think small hooks should be allowed to be barbed

try to find size 18 hook that is barbless.
and they are like inposible to unbarb because the hooks are so small.

[Jwood 456]

I wouldn't be against using barbed hooks if the hooks are tiny. With tiny hooks, it would hardly make a difference in the welfare of the fish being realeased IMO. Though I think it is still a good thing to keep the trebles barbless. I find that many times where barbed hooks were legal... the trebles that were barbed, made a much larger mess of the fish than the same trebles with the barbs crushed. All in all after using a barbed treble for a very short time, I switched to a single barbed hook and the single barbed hook hardly made a mess of the fish IMO.

[huntsfurfish]

The barbless law was one of the stupid things that Ralph's World brought us.

Exactly

Barbless hook issue is a feel good law only.

No evidence to show it kills fish!!!!!!!!!!

Ya want to do something about mortallity rates - Then go bait ban in Alberta.

That would make a difference!

I dont want to see a bait ban in Alberta but it would have at least made some sense then.

[SushiUnagi]

so for all the gun hunters that want to hunt in a bow only zone....the government should buy them all a bow?

where do you think the money would come from if the government would start handing out barbless hooks?

sorry but you're so missing the point

[chubbdarter]

sorry but you're so missing the point

with all respect.....first you want to ban all barbed hooks in Alberta or get the fishing industry to accomodate the small barbless world market.....now your complaint is barbless hooks are useless.....if im missing the point its because well - i dont get your point.

You dont like the barbless LAW because what?
1-Youve lost alot of Trophy fish at PCR because of being barbless?
2-You hate King Ralph because your not a Conservative?
3-The operation of pliers to pinch barbs is too hard?
Its a simple fact its the law, time is better spent learning to be a better fisherman than beotching to lure manufactures about lures they make and the government for making laws that Most can live with.

Have a great fishing season

[walleyechaser]

barbless is the only way to go, dont loose any more fish with out the barbs.

i will never use barbs anywhere in the world again

[alodar]

barbless is the only way to go, dont loose any more fish with out the barbs.

i will never use barbs anywhere in the world again

Barbless is not a big deal i have been to sask and used barbs after fishing here and HATE barbs due to difficulty of removal after catching, damage caused due to hooking around the gill in pike and walleye and tearing large holes in the mouth of our soft mouthed friend the trout. By large i mean bigger than barbless in Conclusion i will fosh barbless next time i hit sask

[Big Red 250]

barbless is the only way to go, dont loose any more fish with out the barbs.

i will never use barbs anywhere in the world again

I totally agree with this post. I been fishing barbless now for at least 10 years.

[huntsfurfish]

Barbless is not a big deal i have been to sask and used barbs after fishing here and HATE barbs due to difficulty of removal after catching, damage caused due to hooking around the gill in pike and walleye and tearing large holes in the mouth of our soft mouthed friend the trout. By large i mean bigger than barbless in Conclusion i will fosh barbless next time i hit sask

Vast majority of the time a simple twist with pliers and fish is free.

damage caused due to hooking around the gill in pike and walleye

Damage is from the hook

tearing large holes in the mouth of our soft mouthed friend the trout. or any fish for that matter

Mostly the result of the fight itself not the barb.

More of a fish handling issue. No evidence to support barbless. Infact see more people digging for their 10 cent hook instead of cutting the line now(because it is so much easier and will not hurt the fish any more-ya right).

And yes I do pinch them. Its the law. But only a feel-good law.

[Dust1n]

Exactly

Barbless hook issue is a feel good law only.

No evidence to show it kills fish!!!!!!!!!!

Ya want to do something about mortallity rates - Then go bait ban in Alberta.

That would make a difference!

I dont want to see a bait ban in Alberta but it would have at least made some sense then.

with all respect.....first you want to ban all barbed hooks in Alberta or get the fishing industry to accomodate the small barbless world market.....now your complaint is barbless hooks are useless.....if im missing the point its because well - i dont get your point.

You dont like the barbless LAW because what?
1-Youve lost alot of Trophy fish at PCR because of being barbless?
2-You hate King Ralph because your not a Conservative?
3-The operation of pliers to pinch barbs is too hard?
Its a simple fact its the law, time is better spent learning to be a better fisherman than beotching to lure manufactures about lures they make and the government for making laws that Most can live with.

Have a great fishing season

in the usa the fishing with barbs hooks are legal and dont do much to there tough species of bass and catfish. here in alberta we got less stronger species like trout, and using a spoon with a barb will rip its moouth apart after a few catches.
i agree with barbless because you can remove the hook easyer, better for the fishes survival ect.

[huntsfurfish]

in the usa the fishing with barbs hooks are legal and dont do much to there tough species of bass and catfish. here in alberta we got less stronger species like trout, and using a spoon with a barb will rip its moouth apart after a few catches.
i agree with barbless because you can remove the hook easyer, better for the fishes survival ect.

No evidence to support that!

"here in alberta we got less stronger species like trout, and using a spoon with a barb will rip its moouth apart after a few catches."

Sorry kid, gotta call bull on that one.

[Granrey]

I think going barbless is better for the fish and its the law but since they sell barbed hooks on the store. Would it be asking too much to at least put a sign saying: "dont forget to remove barbs out of the hooks"?


Man, I assume every thing I buy from a store is legal without needing to do any modification to the item.

[billie]

Everyone should know how to pinch down the barbs properly.

Once pinched, shove through thumb (or ear lob) and remove. If it hurts more coming out than going in, re-pinch and retest:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[BGSH]

my friend got a ticket on the nsr the other day and fishing rod and reel takin away for having barb hooks in open tackel box but fishing with pinched barbs, he had to beg to keep his tackel box, serious cash grab by the f$w dont worry when i become a f&w officer things are gonna change.

[mulecrazy]

my friend got a ticket on the nsr the other day and fishing rod and reel takin away for having barb hooks in open tackel box but fishing with pinched barbs, he had to beg to keep his tackel box, serious cash grab by the f$w dont worry when i become a f&w officer things are gonna change.

fight that ticket for sure. I have heard of F&W officers doing this, but not exprienced it myself. Pure garbage IMO. There is no law stating hooks in your tackle box need to be barbless, just the ones on your line.

[jeprli]

I'm all for barbless, been using them for quite some time on different species and i haven't noticed any difference in catching. The difference that i like is when i'm removing hooks(much easier and faster with barbless) from fish and myself.

For those who think barbless is a waste of time and doesn't hurt fish any more than a barbed hook...well i say hook yourself with each type of hook, but do it so the barb penetrates through skin...try to remove them and then tell me how each extraction felt :)

BTW It was a choice for me, way before the law kicked in.

If i can pull out a pike with a tiny barbless fly hook(only been flyfishing for 2 years) i'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a problem with a plug that's loaded to the tits(which i also use, but two trebles at most are good enough for most of my fish).

If I was to eat/keep every fish i catch, then this "barbless law" wouldn't make any sense, since i tend to release most of my catches or they are under limit then it makes perfect sense to put less harm on those we return(since we will be back to catch em when they're "big enough")

[huntsfurfish]

I'm all for barbless, been using them for quite some time on different species and i haven't noticed any difference in catching. The difference that i like is when i'm removing hooks(much easier and faster with barbless) from fish and myself.

For those who think barbless is a waste of time and doesn't hurt fish any more than a barbed hook...well i say hook yourself with each type of hook, but do it so the barb penetrates through skin...try to remove them and then tell me how each extraction felt :)

BTW It was a choice for me, way before the law kicked in.

If i can pull out a pike with a tiny barbless fly hook(only been flyfishing for 2 years) i'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a problem with a plug that's loaded to the tits(which i also use, but two trebles at most are good enough for most of my fish).

If I was to eat/keep every fish i catch, then this "barbless law" wouldn't make any sense, since i tend to release most of my catches or they are under limit then it makes perfect sense to put less harm on those we return(since we will be back to catch em when they're "big enough")

I've been practicing catch and release for close to 45 years and have had few if any die because of a hooks barb! If a person wants to go easier on the fish, go baitless.

[chubbdarter]

does a barbed hook directly result in fish moratlity....i dont know
But im quite sure its speeds the release of a hooked fish
Heres a simple experiment for everyone to try. Go to your tackle box and get two number 4 trebles...1 fully barbed and the other de-barbed. Drive both hooks into your body, you pick the spot i dont think it matters as long as both hooks are in the same area.
Get a friend to try remove the hooks for you...You squirm and flop like a fish
Now time how long each takes to remove the hook

[horsetrader]

When I first came here from Ont and found out it was barbless I thought you guys were nuts we never fished barbless. You want me to fish for bass barbless forget it then I found out no BASS man what else can happen. But I went fishing and I found out I don't lose any more fish now then I did before....Ok so I'm not the greatest fisherman.But what I did find out releasing a fish especially one with teeth was a whole lot easier on me and the fish. And Chubb I'm not going to let you talk me in to sticking hooks in my flesh .....again....:thinking-006:

[Daceminnow]

does a barbed hook directly result in fish moratlity....i dont know
But im quite sure its speeds the release of a hooked fish
Heres a simple experiment for everyone to try. Go to your tackle box and get two number 4 trebles...1 fully barbed and the other de-barbed. Drive both hooks into your body, you pick the spot i dont think it matters as long as both hooks are in the same area.
Get a friend to try remove the hooks for you...You squirm and flop like a fish
Now time how long each takes to remove the hook

little secret he's not sharing that may be of some help. before attempting to pull out the barbed treble, you're better off bringing that hook right through your skin and cutting off the barb or entire hook. then reverse direction and pull it back out the way it went it. performed this operation on myself at least once, one buddy who fainted in the boat and my old hound Bud. the dog took it the best by far, although it still took three of us to hold him down. a bird dog by the river, geese constantly landing, and a buddys open tackle box full of 10" plugs. disaster waiting to happen.

[averagejoe]

I figure that if I can run my finger over it without it "snagging" then it wont get caught in a fish.

Wasnt there an article in AO (B&W) if i remember correctly about one F&W using a silk thread to test barbs?

Give away all the old issues so I cannot check.

[huntsfurfish]

does a barbed hook directly result in fish moratlity....i dont know
But im quite sure its speeds the release of a hooked fish
Heres a simple experiment for everyone to try. Go to your tackle box and get two number 4 trebles...1 fully barbed and the other de-barbed. Drive both hooks into your body, you pick the spot i dont think it matters as long as both hooks are in the same area.
Get a friend to try remove the hooks for you...You squirm and flop like a fish
Now time how long each takes to remove the hook

Two years ago at (payne lake-ironically), I was trolling some small raps and other cranks(barbs were pinched). Fishing was a little slow so I had about 8 small cranks tangled up in a messy ball. So I thought I would separate and pinch the barbs. Was wearing sweat pants, anyway looked up to see the largest rainbow of the day jumping behind the boat so I dropped the mess of cranks beside me and proceeded to have a tug of war with the bow. After a quick release. Wiped my hand on the pants - ouch the ball of cranks had stuck to my pants. All My cranks get their hooks changed out to premium hooks. And I managed to get my fingers into a couple. Had to remove my pants to sort out andclear my hand from the pants.

Now I removed all hooks but one that was burried to the bend(last joint middle finger). And yes it still had the barbs(they all did). Quick twist with the pliers and it was out!

Did it hurt - or course but removal was still quick(quick twist with the pliers). And I did the removal myself.

Fighting another fish within 5 minutes of removal

Education on fish handling could alleviate much of the mortallity rates.

I also see nobody touching the baitless comment, so I guess none of you use bait(good on you). That makes your comments about being easier on the fish and such more valid.:)

[Sundancefisher]

Interesting thread

Here is a short read...

http://nativefishsociety.org/conservation/misc/documents/documents/BarbedandBarblessHooksLitReview408.pdf

http://www.moucheur.com/divers/TroutHooking.pdf

https://research.idfg.idaho.gov/Fisheries%20Research%20Reports/Res-Schill1997%20Barbed%20Hook%20Restrictions%20in%20C atch-and-Release%20Trout%20Fisheries--A%20Social%20Issue.pdf

I would suggest people review these.

In general I am not opposed to fishing barbless. Yes you do loose more...we see that first hand salmon fishing as hooks get thrown by a jumping coho.

Research shows there is no real clear benefit to going barbless. Intangible benefits such as having more fish get away, increasing the challenge, forcing people to adopt better fishing techniques are not that significant.

The biggest problems in fisheries is not the barbed hooks but treble hooks and use of bait.

For all those advocating barbless is good...if you are truly looking at it for the right reasons versus some other ulterior motive...then you should be 100% against trebles and bait.

It is really that simple.

The main beefs I have is that the enforcement is hit or miss...insofar as being fair to the fisherman. If there was a clear attempt to pinch a barb...IMHO that should count. None of this stupid running the hook through a wool sweater swatch...etc. That is asinine. Also...when I tie flies...it is very annoying problem having the hook break or become weakened.

If I could make the rules...I would ban bait and trebles and require an attempt to pinch the barbs.

Sun (Free to Use this Spot to type an additional phrase)

[huntsfurfish]

Interesting thread

Here is a short read...

http://nativefishsociety.org/conservation/misc/documents/documents/BarbedandBarblessHooksLitReview408.pdf

http://www.moucheur.com/divers/TroutHooking.pdf

https://research.idfg.idaho.gov/Fisheries%20Research%20Reports/Res-Schill1997%20Barbed%20Hook%20Restrictions%20in%20C atch-and-Release%20Trout%20Fisheries--A%20Social%20Issue.pdf

I would suggest people review these.

In general I am not opposed to fishing barbless. Yes you do loose more...we see that first hand salmon fishing as hooks get thrown by a jumping coho.

Research shows there is no real clear benefit to going barbless. Intangible benefits such as having more fish get away, increasing the challenge, forcing people to adopt better fishing techniques are not that significant.

The biggest problems in fisheries is not the barbed hooks but treble hooks and use of bait.

For all those advocating barbless is good...if you are truly looking at it for the right reasons versus some other ulterior motive...then you should be 100% against trebles and bait.

It is really that simple.

The main beefs I have is that the enforcement is hit or miss...insofar as being fair to the fisherman. If there was a clear attempt to pinch a barb...IMHO that should count. None of this stupid running the hook through a wool sweater swatch...etc. That is asinine. Also...when I tie flies...it is very annoying problem having the hook break or become weakened.

If I could make the rules...I would ban bait and trebles and require an attempt to pinch the barbs.

Sun (Free to Use this Spot to type an additional phrase)



Good read! Thanks for posting Sundancefisher.

[Dust1n]

No evidence to support that!

"here in alberta we got less stronger species like trout, and using a spoon with a barb will rip its moouth apart after a few catches."

Sorry kid, gotta call bull on that one.

have you ever caught a small stocker at a pond and ripped the barb out of its tiny mouth/ well it didnt survive it had a ripped up jaw.

[boot]

First off, barbed hooks do increase the mortality rate. Even on a size 10 hook with a barb, I've had to man-handle fish to remove some barbed hooks (in BC). In some cases, the barb is embedded so badly that the jaw is damaged when removing the hook.

The problem gets even worse when fishing with a bobber and bait. If you're too slow to set the hook, the fish will eat the bait and the hook gets embedded in organs or the gill rakes. Good luck releasing the fish after that happens.

Anyhow, with that said, I still think they should relax the barbed laws in Alberta. All streams, rivers and sensitive lakes should ban barbed hooks, trebles and bait. But the stocked put/grow/take lakes should allow barbs. I know for most of the experienced anglers, barbs or barbless may not make that much of a difference, but try taking a new angler out or even children and it's a different story. How do you explain to a 3 or 4 year old that you need to keep the pressure on the fish?

[boot]

i'm pretty sure it shouldn't be a problem with a plug that's loaded to the tits(which i also use, but two trebles at most are good enough for most of my fish).

Is this legal? I thought the regs stated that you're only allowed to fish 3 hooks on a single line (3 separate or 1 treble).

[Sundancefisher]

Is this legal? I thought the regs stated that you're only allowed to fish 3 hooks on a single line (3 separate or 1 treble).

You need to read the whole regs



General Sportfishing Restrictions
It Is Unlawful To:

Use a line in angling equipped with more than three hooks (e.g., three hooks, or three single-hook lures, or one three-hook lure).
Use a lure in angling with more than three hooks as part of it.
Use a hook with more than three points on a common shaft



Definitions

Hook – means a single-, double- or triple-pointed hook on a common shaft, and includes hooks attached to a lure.

(Note: some legal lures appear to have a hook with four points, but actually have two shafts each with two points).

Hope that answers your question...

[boot]

:confused0024::confused0024:
Definitions

Hook – means a single-, double- or triple-pointed hook on a common shaft, and includes hooks attached to a lure.



Thanks! It's interesting that they allow 3 trebles on a single line (no size limitation either?), yet having a barb on a size 20 fly is a no-no. Hehe... :confused0024:

[huntsfurfish]

have you ever caught a small stocker at a pond and ripped the barb out of its tiny mouth/ well it didnt survive it had a ripped up jaw.

Id really like to see how you are unhooking a fish that it would cause such damage! Could also be your handling, but I will give you an out, was it a trebble hook by chance? Then yes, I have seen damage done.

And yes, I have and do release them successfully.

[huntsfurfish]

First off, barbed hooks do increase the mortality rate. Even on a size 10 hook with a barb, I've had to man-handle fish to remove some barbed hooks (in BC). In some cases, the barb is embedded so badly that the jaw is damaged when removing the hook.

The problem gets even worse when fishing with a bobber and bait. If you're too slow to set the hook, the fish will eat the bait and the hook gets embedded in organs or the gill rakes. Good luck releasing the fish after that happens.

Anyhow, with that said, I still think they should relax the barbed laws in Alberta. All streams, rivers and sensitive lakes should ban barbed hooks, trebles and bait. But the stocked put/grow/take lakes should allow barbs. I know for most of the experienced anglers, barbs or barbless may not make that much of a difference, but try taking a new angler out or even children and it's a different story. How do you explain to a 3 or 4 year old that you need to keep the pressure on the fish?

Ya think, sometimes it might be better to cut the line then fish out your hook?
Part of the problem is education, people need to know how to handle fish and when it is better to cut the line or even the hook.

How many people here carry side cutters to snip a hook or line? And that should be used a lot more when bait fishing!!!!!!!

[boot]

Ya think, sometimes it might be better to cut the line then fish out your hook?
Part of the problem is education, people need to know how to handle fish and when it is better to cut the line or even the hook.

How many people here carry side cutters to snip a hook or line? And that should be used a lot more when bait fishing!!!!!!!

Uh, I kept the fish, so why would I cut my line? It's not like I man-handled it and then carefully released it. All I was saying is that barbs do increase mortality and you can't tell how badly a bard is stuck, until you try to remove it. Unless of course YOU cut your line every time you catch a fish with a barb (outside of AB)?!?

Anyhow, some people need to get off their high horse. If you think that barbs don't increase mortality and that your fish education/skill is at a level where you can handle fish equally (barbed or not barbed), then that's simply amazing and I applaud you.

And as for knowing when to cut the line? We're in Alberta and it's barbless here. Unless I'm releasing a deep hooked fish (very rare while fly fishing), why would I cut the line? The hook will usually fall out by itself in the net.

[chubbdarter]

all these studies are fine and do hold some stong info.
but every situation is different....some fisherpeople could do more harm with a barbless hook release then a person doing a barbed hook release. The actions of the individual and the specific situation are determiing factors on the welfare of the fish.
Even the treble and bait issue is not simple to conclude. I truely believe wallyes are hooked deeper with a single octopus than a treble.

[boot]

Id really like to see how you are unhooking a fish that it would cause such damage! Could also be your handling, but I will give you an out, was it a trebble hook by chance? Then yes, I have seen damage done.

And yes, I have and do release them successfully.

How can you assume he has poor handling skills? Even a tiny barb on an 8 inch trout can cause damage to the jaw. If you're going to release a fish (not sure why you'd be using a barb... BUT if you did), you're going to want to remove the hook quickly and release it quickly. I'm going to assume you haven't used barbs very often or you haven't used them on small trout. Yes, you can release trout with barbed hooks safely, but sometimes it gets stuck in a soft place around the jaw and any bit of pressure on an 8 inch fish can causes damage that a non-barbed hook wouldn't have done.

[BGSH]

obviously when you de barb a hook it increases fishes chance of survival compared to a barbed hook, its common sense, and if you debarb your hook and play a fish right you will not lose your fish

[huntsfurfish]

Uh, I kept the fish, so why would I cut my line? It's not like I man-handled it and then carefully released it. All I was saying is that barbs do increase mortality and you can't tell how badly a bard is stuck, until you try to remove it. Unless of course YOU cut your line every time you catch a fish with a barb (outside of AB)?!?

Anyhow, some people need to get off their high horse. If you think that barbs don't increase mortality and that your fish education/skill is at a level where you can handle fish equally (barbed or not barbed), then that's simply amazing and I applaud you.

And as for knowing when to cut the line? We're in Alberta and it's barbless here. Unless I'm releasing a deep hooked fish (very rare while fly fishing), why would I cut the line? The hook will usually fall out by itself in the net.

You never indicated you kept the fish

"Anyhow, some people need to get off their high horse. If you think that barbs don't increase mortality and that your fish education/skill is at a level where you can handle fish equally (barbed or not barbed), then that's simply amazing and I applaud you."

Your kidding right? I have stated that there is little to no evidence to support the barbless issue. Your the one manhandling fish not me:):snapoutofit:

You are entitled to make any claim you wish. Evidence does not currently support your claim though(at least not any definable amount).

Can hooks kill fish? Yes, do barbs noticeably increase mortallity rates - jurys still out.

Still boils down to fish handling. And lots of variables involved.

Guess I have had different experiences than you. Most fish I catch are able to be released while in the water. Barbed or barbless. If the hook is in the mouth, pliers usually make removal fairly quick and easy. If the hook is in or close to gills or stomach cut the line. That process works well with barbed or barbless. No need to manhandle fish:thinking-006:

[huntsfurfish]

How can you assume he has poor handling skills? Even a tiny barb on an 8 inch trout can cause damage to the jaw. If you're going to release a fish (not sure why you'd be using a barb... BUT if you did), you're going to want to remove the hook quickly and release it quickly. I'm going to assume you haven't used barbs very often or you haven't used them on small trout. Yes, you can release trout with barbed hooks safely, but sometimes it gets stuck in a soft place around the jaw and any bit of pressure on an 8 inch fish can causes damage that a non-barbed hook wouldn't have done.

Been fishing for at least 50 years. Have used barbed hooks and have used barbless since its implementation. Also flyfish, spin, troll, jig, etc.

How can you not assume that? When he stated: "have you ever caught a small stocker at a pond and ripped the barb out of its tiny mouth/ well it didnt survive it had a ripped up jaw"

Besides no damage was done by the hook itself, right? The barb does the only damage? Get real.

However, yes can be harder on small fish, and with all the other variables it is also easier to hook small fish fatally anyway!

Mortallity rates could have been lowered just with an education in fish handling and probably made a bigger impact on mortallity rates.

By the way did you read some of the studies done that were posted by Sundancefisher?

I will point out again, I do pinch my barbs.

[huntsfurfish]

obviously when you de barb a hook it increases fishes chance of survival compared to a barbed hook, its common sense, and if you debarb your hook and play a fish right you will not lose your fish

It really isnt cut and dried like you think.


From Sundancefishermans post


Interesting thread

Here is a short read...

http://nativefishsociety.org/conserv...tReview408.pdf

http://www.moucheur.com/divers/TroutHooking.pdf

https://research.idfg.idaho.gov/Fish...al%20Issue.pdf

I would suggest people review these.

And as I said if you really want to do something about fish mort, then ban bait and trebble hooks.

[huntsfurfish]

page 879 of the Idaho report is a summary and might surprise you.

[chubbdarter]

FACT...most people arent fish experts....alot of fisherpeople fish 1-2 times a year.
They arent interested in learning fish handling skills and thats their choice!!!!. They bought a licence and caught a fish legally.....they enjoyed the experience.
Ever see some of these people scream when hey catch a fish, and the screaming gets louder when they have to now touch the fish. I laugh not at them but at what a great sport fishing is to bring such happiness to all sorts of people.
Line goes slack and the flopping fish throws the barbless hooks and the rolls in the dirt until someone gently guides it back into the water. Maybe not the best method...but that fish has the chance to live another day. Most casual fisherpeople never give slack reeling a fish in......fish ski in at top speed..lol
Barbless hooks i repeat may not DIRECTLY save a fishes life....but i know barbless hooks make releaseing fish easier for EVERYONE.
A fish which has a crankbait hook in its eye...is probably gonna go blind in that eye.....with a barbless hook at least its eye stays in its face.

If the arguement is there is no clear cut answer what is better.....than we should side with caution and respect the barbless law.
If nothing else its not a hard law to deal with.

[huntsfurfish]

FACT...most people arent fish experts....alot of fisherpeople fish 1-2 times a year.
They arent interested in learning fish handling skills and thats their choice!!!!. They bought a licence and caught a fish legally.....they enjoyed the experience.
Ever see some of these people scream when hey catch a fish, and the screaming gets louder when they have to now touch the fish. I laugh not at them but at what a great sport fishing is to bring such happiness to all sorts of people.
Line goes slack and the flopping fish throws the barbless hooks and the rolls in the dirt until someone gently guides it back into the water. Maybe not the best method...but that fish has the chance to live another day. Most casual fisherpeople never give slack reeling a fish in......fish ski in at top speed..lol
Barbless hooks i repeat may not DIRECTLY save a fishes life....but i know barbless hooks make releaseing fish easier for EVERYONE.
A fish which has a crankbait hook in its eye...is probably gonna go blind in that eye.....with a barbless hook at least its eye stays in its face.

If the arguement is there is no clear cut answer what is better.....than we should side with caution and respect the barbless law.
If nothing else its not a hard law to deal with.


Chubby has spoken!:)

Doesnt make educating any less important now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes it is hard law to deal with.

$200.00 fine for no pinched barb and $125.00 for an undersize fish?

I forget from time to time to pinch my barb, fortunately I have not got a ticket for it. And there is to much discretion for what constitutes a pinched barb. My opinion barbless should be optional and left up to the fisherman for now.

[chubbdarter]

Chubby has spoken!

Doesnt make educating any less important now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nope it doesnt....but argueing with a law that can possibly save a few fish, especially the general fishing public that dont care to learn more is rather pointless.

Learning more about what may be proper is not high on the important list for the vast majority of licence holders.

Its a law that potentially can save a few fish....thats good enough for me

[huntsfurfish]

Do you use bait CD?

[chubbdarter]

Do you use bait CD?

by the case

[horsetrader]

Chubby has spoken!:)

Doesnt make educating any less important now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes it is hard law to deal with.

$200.00 fine for no pinched barb and $125.00 for an undersize fish?

I forget from time to time to pinch my barb, fortunately I have not got a ticket for it. And there is to much discretion for what constitutes a pinched barb. My opinion barbless should be optional and left up to the fisherman for now.

If you fish barbless or not is optional and is left up to you it's just the fine you get if you get caught that is not ....so it's your choice.

[huntsfurfish]

If you fish barbless or not is optional and is left up to you it's just the fine you get if you get caught that is not ....so it's your choice.

lol point taken.

[chubbdarter]

Chubby has spoken!:)

Doesnt make educating any less important now does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes it is hard law to deal with.

$200.00 fine for no pinched barb and $125.00 for an undersize fish?

I forget from time to time to pinch my barb, fortunately I have not got a ticket for it. And there is to much discretion for what constitutes a pinched barb. My opinion barbless should be optional and left up to the fisherman for now.

im older than dirt....a regular fisherman.....near blind....pretty forgetful

but

i still put on my magnafiers and take my time to pinch barbs flat....i used to hate the setbelt law....but its instinctive now.

If i fail at doing a proper job at pinching the barbs down...i accept the ticket i would have coming to me, just as i would if my seatbelt wasnt on.

[huntsfurfish]

by the case

Thats what I figured.

[chubbdarter]

Thats what I figured.


lol...you didnt uncover a mystery or secret about CD....im pretty open about what i use.

[huntsfurfish]

im older than dirt....a regular fisherman.....near blind....pretty forgetful

but

i still put on my magnafiers and take my time to pinch barbs flat....i used to hate the setbelt law....but its instinctive now.

If i fail at doing a proper job at pinching the barbs down...i accept the ticket i would have coming to me, just as i would if my seatbelt wasnt on.

Well chubbdarter, I follow the law as well and would be pretty choked if I forgot or missed it and got a $200.00 fine.

Now if you would volunteer to pinch all my barbs all would be well. (warning-doubtful if anyone has more hooks/tackle than me):):lol:;)

[huntsfurfish]

lol...you didnt uncover a mystery or secret about CD....im pretty open about what i use.

No bait would be easier on the fish(save a few more).

In another thread you wanted to see scientific evidence - What about in this case?

[BGSH]

cant wait for fish and wildlife to slam all the guys fishing illegaly in the nsr every day along the banks keeping everything they catch and using tri hooks and 2 rods each, happens all the time down there.

[chubbdarter]

Well chubbdarter, I follow the law as well and would be pretty choked if I forgot or missed it and got a $200.00 fine.

Now if you would volunteer to pinch all my barbs all would be well. (warning-doubtful if anyone has more hooks/tackle than me):):lol:;)

I would be also be choked at myself for forgetting or doing a insufficent job of debarbing.

I dont have much tackle so im willing to help ya

[chubbdarter]

No bait would be easier on the fish(save a few more).

In another thread you wanted to see scientific evidence - What about in this case?

stopping fishing all together would have good results too.

Scientific proof in this case is like proving fish mortality from a catch and release event. Sometimes we need to rely on field experience and just common sense.

[huntsfurfish]

I would be also be choked at myself for forgetting or doing a insufficent job of debarbing.

I dont have much tackle so im willing to help ya

You are a kind man CD!

On a different note(and hijack), I still havent been to Police yet, but will let you know how it went(hope to go Friday or Sat).

[huntsfurfish]

stopping fishing all together would have good results too.

Scientific proof in this case is like proving fish mortality from a catch and release event. Sometimes we need to rely on field experience and just common sense.

I disagree there CD.

[chubbdarter]

You are a kind man CD!

On a different note(and hijack), I still havent been to Police yet, but will let you know how it went(hope to go Friday or Sat).

i have fond memories of that lake....thanks take lots of pics

[huntsfurfish]

i have fond memories of that lake....thanks take lots of pics

Will do!

[chubbdarter]

I disagree there CD.

i knew you would....and its good interested fisherpeople can have discussions. BUT to back my point the vast majority of fisherman in the province will or would not read our discussion here. The AO membership is great and most care. BUT they dont represent the majority of licence holders. The law is a attempt to try save a few fish by upping their survival chances.

[Gust]

stopping fishing all together would have good results too.

Scientific proof in this case is like proving fish mortality from a catch and release event. Sometimes we need to rely on field experience and just common sense.

It's sometimes a tricky situation, but I see it more often than not and am never sure how to approach people who are doing it; deep hook set throat & tongue rippers. I seriously blow a valve when I see the 18th century tooth pullers going at a fish. And yes pike are a "tougher" fish but c'mon, the jaw spreaders don't need to break jaws in the process, and if you can't get the hook out ask a fisherfolk beside you for a tip or help.

Question; I have certain hooks that when I pinch the barb breaks off and leaves a nub. Some nubs I can file down but some of my more expensive ones don't. Is there a tool for helping with this problem?

[chubbdarter]

It's sometimes a tricky situation, but I see it more often than not and am never sure how to approach people who are doing it; deep hook set throat & tongue rippers. I seriously blow a valve when I see the 18th century tooth pullers going at a fish. And yes pike are a "tougher" fish but c'mon, the jaw spreaders don't need to break jaws in the process, and if you can't get the hook out ask a fisherfolk beside you for a tip or help.

Question; I have certain hooks that when I pinch the barb breaks off and leaves a nub. Some nubs I can file down but some of my more expensive ones don't. Is there a tool for helping with this problem?

i agree Gus....but its another case of specific circumstances....what if they dont use the jaw spreaders and it takes 10 minutes for them to remove the hooks?.....kinda have to wieght the odds

[Gust]

i agree Gus....but its another case of specific circumstances....what if they dont use the jaw spreaders and it takes 10 minutes for them to remove the hooks?.....kinda have to wieght the odds

It's a little bit of "The tool checklist", we have a box that carries the essentials; a few type of pliers, good knives, two spreaders (for big & small yaps), whet stone, bells, etc. But I'm notorious for forgetting to pack the net (it always goes in last),, I walk around the garage repeating it like a mantra "The Net-The Net-The Net" and still manage to forget it.

... as for the 10 minute thing,, just cut it.

I sometimes feel sorry for fish.

The discus styled release irks me too.

[huntsfurfish]

It's sometimes a tricky situation, but I see it more often than not and am never sure how to approach people who are doing it; deep hook set throat & tongue rippers. I seriously blow a valve when I see the 18th century tooth pullers going at a fish. And yes pike are a "tougher" fish but c'mon, the jaw spreaders don't need to break jaws in the process, and if you can't get the hook out ask a fisherfolk beside you for a tip or help.

Question; I have certain hooks that when I pinch the barb breaks off and leaves a nub. Some nubs I can file down but some of my more expensive ones don't. Is there a tool for helping with this problem?

None that I know of, but I have found a particular plier that really makes it easier for me to pinch barbs

How do you post pics? And I will post them.

[chubbdarter]

None that I know of, but I have found a particular plier that really makes it easier for me to pinch barbs

How do you post pics? And I will post them.

go to general....its a sticky

[BGSH]

who cares, the regs state de barb your hook, its that simple, you dont want to then take your chances of getting a 200$ fine and or fishing equipment takin away, so pinch your barbs end of story.

[Gust]

who cares, the regs state de barb your hook, its that simple, you dont want to then take your chances of getting a 200$ fine and or fishing equipment takin away, so pinch your barbs end of story.

I do but there are certain barbs that won't crimp or file down and they are great hooks. Thanks for your great answer to my question.

[boot]

I do but there are certain barbs that won't crimp or file down and they are great hooks. Thanks for your great answer to my question.

Hehe, I think he was referring to the debate regarding increased mortality with barbed hooks...

I just don't see how anyone can argue against "barbless decreases mortality". I understand that other options also decrease mortality (bait vs. no bait, trebles vs. singles, fish handling vs not handling, hero pictures vs quick release, dragging across the rocks vs leaving in the water... etc, etc), but that doesn't negate the impact that barbs have on our fisheries.

Anyhow, like I said before, barbless is essential for our streams, rivers and sensitive lakes. The put/grow/take fisheries should be geared towards high catch rates and fun for newbs and kids. The more people we have involved in this sport, the better off we are.

:scared0018:

[chubbdarter]

It's a little bit of "The tool checklist", we have a box that carries the essentials; a few type of pliers, good knives, two spreaders (for big & small yaps), whet stone, bells, etc. But I'm notorious for forgetting to pack the net (it always goes in last),, I walk around the garage repeating it like a mantra "The Net-The Net-The Net" and still manage to forget it.

... as for the 10 minute thing,, just cut it.

I sometimes feel sorry for fish.

The discus styled release irks me too.


i agree but not many fisherman carry a cutter designed to cut a hook deep in a fishes mouth thats possibly connected to a expensive rapala.
Im not sure cutting the line with a crankbait in a fishes mouth is right.

every situation is different

[chubbdarter]

gus...this is what ive been told....the chemically sharpened hooks are not as brittle....i get that barb butt alot too...i just hit it with a wet flat diamond file. That probably does weaken the hook but its the best i can do.

[huntsfurfish]

Heres the pics of the pliers


http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1147.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1146.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1144.jpg

Hope it works - these pliers are awesome for pinching barbs(but a little pricey).

[huntsfurfish]

who cares, the regs state de barb your hook, its that simple, you dont want to then take your chances of getting a 200$ fine and or fishing equipment takin away, so pinch your barbs end of story.

Thats the problem with this law!
Read page 879 of the Idaho report!

[huntsfurfish]

On the pliers, one end is square(flat) and the other is round. Best Ive found so far.

[BGSH]

lol, its the law though, nothing you can do about it, it will be inplace untill next year either way, so for now you have to obey it, ya it is strange how they have the barbed law, yet in the reg on the front cover they have a trout being caught with a rapala, with two tri hooks in it lol, i thought it was strange two tri hooks have to do the same amount of dmg as a single barbed hook if not more dmg, anyways lets see what i can do to please everyone :D

[horsetrader]

On the pliers, one end is square(flat) and the other is round. Best Ive found so far.

Where did you get them?

[chubbdarter]

Where did you get them?


haahahahhaha you old fugger put your specks on....they say MasterCraft right on them....lol

[huntsfurfish]

haahahahhaha you old fugger put your specks on....they say MasterCraft right on them....lol

Lol

Yup Can tyre, not sure if I can mention the name

[horsetrader]

haahahahhaha you old fugger put your specks on....they say MasterCraft right on them....lol

I should not even talk to you after that last video ..................LOL

Damn now the eyes are going to .Man that sucks the eyes the ears and fishing with a limp line whats next......:scared0015:

[chubbdarter]

I should not even talk to you after that last video ..................LOL
Damn now the eyes are going to .Man that sucks the eyes the ears and fishing with a limp line whats next......:scared0015:


hahahaha ever notice a lot of times, no talks to either of us except us....

[horsetrader]

[COLOR="Red"]


hahahaha ever notice a lot of times, no talks to either of us except us....


We can keep the conversation intelligent that wa...........BWHAAAAAAAAAAA I almost got it all out.......:sHa_shakeshout:

[chubbdarter]

We can keep the conversation intelligent that wa...........BWHAAAAAAAAAAA I almost got it all out.......:sHa_shakeshout:

hahhahhahhha i kinda FH7'd that one

[alodar]

hahhahhahhha i kinda FH7'd that one

Lol?

[Dust1n]

hahhahhahhha i kinda FH7'd that one

haha what chubbs?

[chubbdarter]

haha what chubbs?

how did the week end fishing go?

[Dust1n]

pretty bad. it blowed hard down south and rained when we were going to the bow so i didnt stop there. at nic sheron i got a brown trout and seen lots of carp and other trout.
other species which were not looking into were the pike and perch.
perch nothin over 4 inches
pike were all about 3lbs max
all on catonic leeches. it was hard to cast so i brang out the 7wt with sink tip.
it would be better if i could cast with the 4wt. and hook into more trout

[chubbdarter]

pretty bad. it blowed hard down south and rained when we were going to the bow so i didnt stop there. at nic sheron i got a brown trout and seen lots of carp and other trout.
other species which were not looking into were the pike and perch.
perch nothin over 4 inches
pike were all about 3lbs max
all on catonic leeches. it was hard to cast so i brang out the 7wt with sink tip.
it would be better if i could cast with the 4wt. and hook into more trout


what day were you there?

[Dust1n]

what day were you there?

hmm i think friday or was it saturday there was 3 kids that told me how to fsh the lake. like therre honey holes lol. seen lots of trout under the bridges but wouldnt take much. i think there after cronamids

[Dust1n]

there was at least 5-10 ppl at the bow everywhere i went and we crossed it a few times.

[chubbdarter]

hmm i think friday or was it saturday there was 3 kids that told me how to fsh the lake. like therre honey holes lol. seen lots of trout under the bridges but wouldnt take much. i think there after cronamids

bad hijack...i'll starta new thread on everyones week end opener

[Gust]

Heres the pics of the pliers


http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1147.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1146.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/camerashy14/picsMisc1144.jpg

Hope it works - these pliers are awesome for pinching barbs(but a little pricey).

Thanks,,, so new line and new pliers.

Deep cranks are tricky,,, I had a small pike inhale a large Len Thompson and managed to do a tricky through the gills unhooking, with little damage and the hook was seriously at the throat.

Last year a fellow manhandled an undersized pike that after being released turned belly up a few feet under the water and I then watched a monster come in at lightening speed and disappeared the injured pike. So I changed my lure to a ten inch spoon.