Was it immorral?

[jacob1202]

I know im probablly going to stir up a hornets nest with this one but i just got home from court. I was sent there by fish and wildlife and here is my story.

A buddy and i were out hunting coyotes just b4 christmas on our snowmobiles. We came across a deer that was stuck in a fence. I dont mean stuck but i mean absolutely wrapped up in it and basically cut all to hell. So i planted him in the back of the head with my .223 ... well a person who i wont name but have known for a very long time decided he would call the fish and wildlife on me. So that was that.

I felt really bad about it and was even questioning my own morals for a bit. But i got to thinking that what i did was end the life of an animal that was suffering horribly. It mustve been stuck in the fence for a couple days looking at the deepness of the cuts and the weakened state it was in.

Anyway the judge threw the case out and i feel alot better on that aspect...but heres the question... what would u have done??

[walking buffalo]

You did the right thing.

A follow up call to F&W would not have hurt.

[ctd]

Giving the story as said, I would have done the same thing.
Now as for your person you new for a long time hope he is no longer associated with.

I also would have called the authorities and let them know what I did.

[huntinstuff]

It is illegal to shoot a deer out of season.

That said, morally, I would have done what you did and let the common sense chips fall where they may. Difference is, I would have called F&W myself ....

[moosehunter3-0]

would be advised to call F&W before hand next time. Morally, killing it as fast as possible seems right, buts its not really worth the bs afterwards if they weren't notified before you delt with it..

[dmckay]

I've only just had my first hunting season in '09.......and I am hooked! I would worry about losing my hunting privledges, but in your circumstances, I would have done the same. You did the right thing in ending that animals suffering IMHO

[HunterDave]

Based on the story, the animal definitely had to be put down. I couldn't just leave an animal in that situation without doing something. I would do one of two things:

a. Call F&W and ask to end the animal's suffering or have them dispatch someone to come out and do it; or

b. Shoot it and be on my way with no one being the wiser.

The location would dictate whether I chose a or b.

I'm glad for you that you had a reasonable judge who chose ethics over a strict enforcement of the law. You did the right thing!

[bingo1010]

i would end its life without a question!! no need for it to suufer, eaten alive by coyotes. i can't believe f&w actually charged you? i have called in before when i have found deer that have been wounded by others during hunting season and been given the blessing by f&w to dispatch the animal.

[jacob1202]

i did call them. as soon as i got back into the house i called them straight away. but the problem was i didnt call them b4 i did it

[Tundra Monkey]

You gotta look in the mirror everyday.....and it sux if the guy looking back has no class. You did the right thing IMO.

A follow up call to the CO's should have been your next step.

Boot your "friend" to the curb :mad3:

Hopefully one day you find him stuck in a fence..........don't shoot him though :p

tm

ps....crappy they hauled you in.......at least the Judge used his powers of discretion properly.

[ram crazy]

You did the right thing by putting out of it's misery!! And shame on F@W for taking you to court over a humane and ethical thing to do I'd of done the same thing. Some time I have no use for people like that.

[Okotokian]

Hard to say. He may have looked "cut to hell" but I'm not sure barbed wire cuts are necessarily fatal. How does one know for a fact he couldn't have been extricated and saved? I think a call to F&W was in order. They may have given you permission to shoot, or have been there soon themselves.

But I'd plan my revenge on that acquaintance who turned you in. :evilgrin:

[jacob1202]

and was charged with hunting out of season. but letting common sense get in the way i wouldnt have been hunting deer with a .223..... i wouldnt have shot a little doe if i needed the meat that bad.... i definatelly wouldnt have shot one that was stuck in a fence and ripped to shreds and half rotten already... i think fish and wildlife have a very hard job to do and they do it very well... but i guess there is always that 1% that feels the need to try and take your livelihood from u

[FishBrain]

Good for you for pulling the trigger.
I would have done the same thing.
I hope your "friend" showed up in court also, then he can see what humane thing you did.
Maybe it will help him understand what HUMANE is all about.On the flip side, if F&W didnt charge you some ***** hat would be shooting animals and climing he put it out of its misery. so F&W did do what they are supposed to do, cant fault them for that, NOW the dude that turned you in....well thats another story

[honda450]

Yup would of done the same as you. I have put wounded critters down before, but not with a gun. Had to use resources on hand. :wave:

Took many calves out of barbed wire too they don't co-operate too well either. :lol::lol:

[jacob1202]

the rcmp came into my house and checked through all of my rifles they ran every one... they were looking in the sheds... i felt a bit raped but im glad its all over... maybe next time ill just let the birds continue to eat an animal that is still alive !?!?!!??!!!???

[timba]

You did the right thing,I would have done it and I have done it with a moose that was hit by a semi.Why would the RCmp go through your stuff for put a deer out of its missery:mad3:

timba

[jacob1202]

the rcmp came out with the f&w ... and my lawyer said that because i was being charged with a crime they had reasonable grounds without a warrant to search.. i guess they were looking for any animals that were hanging or any stashed rifles... idk

[BowhuntAB]

Unfortunatly the F&W need to do there job this way :huh: I understand they have a hard job to do and they need to follow the set rules and enforce them as best they can. However, i often wish they would show a human side and cut a guy a bit of slack on these types of things.

In there eyes you broke the law. In my eyes you did what needed to be done.

[BowhuntAB]

QUOTE=jacob1202;488993]the rcmp came out with the f&w ... and my lawyer said that because i was being charged with a crime they had reasonable grounds without a warrant to search.. i guess they were looking for any animals that were hanging or any stashed rifles... idk[/QUOTE]

:mad3::mad2::mad::mad2::mad::mad3::mad2::mad:[

[jacob1202]

Hard to say. He may have looked "cut to hell" but I'm not sure barbed wire cuts are necessarily fatal. How does one know for a fact he couldn't have been extricated and saved? I think a call to F&W was in order. They may have given you permission to shoot, or have been there soon themselves.

But I'd plan my revenge on that acquaintance who turned you in. :evilgrin:

well i know for a fact because the coyotes were already on it just b4 i came accross it... thats why i noticed it... i seen 4 of them screw off in all directions when i came around the treeline... plus there was birds picking on its back end... it needed to be shot!!!

[yamaha 1]

You did the right thing.....can you imagine if the Coyotes found that deer :sick: It would have been a slow and painful death:cry: And as for your friend I would tie him up to that fence and leave...let the Coyotes fix his *****:mad2:

[riderpride55]

good for you, at least now this court case is on public record, for the guys who MAY have to deal with an issue like this in the future

[fallen1817]

I have a question regarding suffering animals.

Is it legal to obtain a "found dead" permit for an animal that you have killed out of season? Not through illegal means of course. Say, you hit it on the highway, or it was trapped in a fence and was all shredded. (apparently the latter is illegal. (not to hijack the thread, sorry.))

Is this legal?

thanks for feedback,

-Jeff

[honda450]

I was working in Elmsworth a few years back going up to a lease and noticed a cow elk on one side of the road. I stopped and looked at her and could not fiqure why she was not running off. I looked on the other side of the road and behind the fence was a little elk calf. The fence was high as there were buffalo in it. Well the little calf could not get out and how it got in there in the first place I did not know.

Well seen there was a gate not to far away so I opened it up and herded that little sucker out. He had to be only days old but could run like the wind. Never did see either of them again. :wave:

[Okotokian]

well i know for a fact because the coyotes were already on it just b4 i came accross it... thats why i noticed it... !

But you were hunting coyotes... could have used the deer as bait and shot them.

OK OK, I'm just teasing.

[Dakota369]

You did the right thing in a tough situation, and have shown that you truly respect and care for the wildlife you hunt, and the world around you. F&W also did what they had to do, as well as the RCMP. As long as they were respectful, and not harsh or bullying then the results were exactly what they should of been given the situation. It is regretable that you were placed in said position due to you longtime friends/acquaintances actions though. Have you discussed the outcome with them? Did they witness your deed, or did they just hear about it and then call. What would they have done?

[gramps73]

Glad it worked out for you I would have done the same thing. What I dont get is the cost involved with the courts and court people are un called for. If these are the fact the officer should have used his/her head.

[IR_mike]

the rcmp came into my house and checked through all of my rifles they ran every one... they were looking in the sheds... i felt a bit raped but im glad its all over... maybe next time ill just let the birds continue to eat an animal that is still alive !?!?!!??!!!???

I could be wrong but, RCMP with a search warrant for a at the time "alleged" wildlife violation. Sounds pretty reactionary.

I think your "freind" may have "added" some very malicious info about you in regards to your attitude or state of mind when he reported what happened.

Sheesh...unreal.

[jacob1202]

But you were hunting coyotes... could have used the deer as bait and shot them.

OK OK, I'm just teasing.

ha ha.... and wouldnt u know one of them coyotes did feel the sting from the old 223

[whitetail Junkie]

I came across the same kind of thing with my cousin in saskatchewan 4 years ago.ravens were eating the deer and it was still alive.however we called the fish and game and he met us out there in 1\2 hour.he then finished off the small buck.

[jacob1202]

it actually wasnt really a freind but a neighbour whom ive never ever had a problem with b4... id give him some moose meat here and there and he would in turn give me smoked whitefish he had caught... "BUT" his dog went missing awhile b4 that and he came to my house asking if i had seen him... i hadnt that time but previously he would come up and tease my dogs and chase the horses and i asked him to keep it chained up... my guess is old larry another neighbour of ours mustve shot him because he was constantly running around... maybe he thinks i did it... idk

[jacob1202]

I came across the same kind of thing with my cousin in saskatchewan 4 years ago.ravens were eating the deer and it was still alive.however we called the fish and game and he met us out there in 1\2 hour.he then finished off the small buck.

yeah this one too... there were ravens standing right on its back picking at it and it had no energy left by this time... it would try to get up and move but the wire was wrapped around its neck and front legs so tight it couldnt really lift its head anymore

[Okotokian]

I could be wrong but, RCMP with a search warrant for a at the time "alleged" wildlife violation. Sounds pretty reactionary.
.

Well, I'm not sure a search conducted after a trial has concluded would be a particularly effective law enforcement strategy.
I doubt you would hear Grissom on CSI say "We've charged him with murder, and we suspect the murder weapon might be in his car. We'll search it after the trial." :lol:

[trakker9]

As a long time hunter and outdoorsman I beleive that you up held the traditions and values of what most outdoorsmen believe. To put that animal down was the RIGHT thing to do. The results of going to court only shows how far apart our believes have strayed from the system. I would be glad to have you as a freind.

[IR_mike]

Well, I'm not sure a search conducted after a trial has concluded would be a particularly effective law enforcement strategy.
I doubt you would hear Grissom on CSI say "We've charged him with murder, and we suspect the murder weapon might be in his car. We'll search it after the trial." :lol:

I'm sort of wondering why the RCMP were involved in the first place, its a wildlife violation that as far as I can tell from the OP did not involve any threats or violence.

And didn't happen in Toronto.:)

Maybe Huntinstuff can shed some light on this.

Anyone that I know of that has had a "visit" in regards to a alleged wildlife investigation (eg out of season,tresspass, overlimit) was visited by a SRD officer not RCMP.

[jacob1202]

I'm sort of wondering why the RCMP were involved in the first place, its a wildlife violation that as far as I can tell from the OP did not involve any threats or violence.

And didn't happen in Toronto.:)

Maybe Huntinstuff can shed some light on this.

Anyone that I know of that has had a "visit" in regards to a alleged wildlife investigation (eg out of season,tresspass, overlimit) was visited by a SRD officer not RCMP.

i dont really know forsure... maybe because there were firearms involved... i know it was the rcmp fellow.... who was very nice and respectfull btw.... who ran all the numbers on my rifles... im not sure if fish and wildlife can do that because the registration of rifles is a federal matter and they are provincial... im not to sure... but thats what went down that cold and snowy day:(

[whitetail Junkie]

yeah this one too... there were ravens standing right on its back picking at it and it had no energy left by this time... it would try to get up and move but the wire was wrapped around its neck and front legs so tight it couldnt really lift its head anymore

Thats very sad.Well i'd have to say that finishing off the deer was the right thing to do.what kind of deer was it? If A buck,what would it score around?:wave:

[Cowtown guy]

i dont really know forsure... maybe because there were firearms involved... i know it was the rcmp fellow.... who was very nice and respectfull btw.... who ran all the numbers on my rifles... im not sure if fish and wildlife can do that because the registration of rifles is a federal matter and they are provincial... im not to sure... but thats what went down that cold and snowy day:(
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we still have an amnesty for a few more months? Even if a rifle wasn't registered there is still no crime as of now. I guess if this is the case he was checking for stolen rifles? Did they tell you what they were looking for?

[elkhunter69]

What a joke!!! You did the right thing!! I can't understand how the hell they can justify "raiding" your house over this? Kudos

BTW- You might want to punch the guy who reported you in the nose:evilgrin:

[jacob1202]

Thats very sad.Well i'd have to say that finishing off the deer was the right thing to do.what kind of deer was it? If A buck,what would it score around?:wave:

no it was just a yearling doe... sickly looking thing

[baz]

Had a similar incident happen this spring while camping near Lake Newell, friends showed up at my campsite and indicated they had seen a muley doe alongside a well travelled grid road that didn't look very healthy. These individuals are not very outdoors savy so suggested I have a look. Upon walking up to this deer, at approx ten feet it struggled to even lift it's head and was very gaunt (hard winter, illness?) obviously in distress. A call was made to F&W office, an officer called back shortly after and advised there was no officer nearby to assess the situation. I explained to the officer that although I had no firearm, a humane way to dispatch this deer was still possible. The officer asked me to wait and would call the RCMP and get back to me on a resolution. Within 10 mins the F&W called back followed by an RCMP officer, asking for exact directions and if I would meet them at the site. Within one hour the proper authorities were advised of the situation, attended, and dealt with this situation with thank you' s going all around. Following proper channels in these situations is the only way to go IMHO.

[jacob1202]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we still have an amnesty for a few more months? Even if a rifle wasn't registered there is still no crime as of now. I guess if this is the case he was checking for stolen rifles? Did they tell you what they were looking for?

yeah i definatelly asked them what they were looking for... any illegal animal carcasses or illegal firearms ... wich is fine... i dont have anything to hide

[jacob1202]

Had a similar incident happen this spring while camping near Lake Newell, friends showed up at my campsite and indicated they had seen a muley doe alongside a well travelled grid road that didn't look very healthy. These individuals are not very outdoors savy so suggested I have a look. Upon walking up to this deer, at approx ten feet it struggled to even lift it's head and was very gaunt (hard winter, illness?) obviously in distress. A call was made to F&W office, an officer called back shortly after and advised there was no officer nearby to assess the situation. I explained to the officer that although I had no firearm, a humane way to dispatch this deer was still possible. The officer asked me to wait and would call the RCMP and get back to me on a resolution. Within 10 mins the F&W called back followed by an RCMP officer, asking for exact directions and if I would meet them at the site. Within one hour the proper authorities were advised of the situation, attended, and dealt with this situation with thank you' s going all around. Following proper channels in these situations is the only way to go IMHO.

well... you may be right... im certainly not going to do it again without first calling

[Okotokian]

well... you may be right... im certainly not going to do it again without first calling

BINGO. Case closed. If you are in cell phone coverage, use it.

[IR_mike]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we still have an amnesty for a few more months? Even if a rifle wasn't registered there is still no crime as of now. I guess if this is the case he was checking for stolen rifles? Did they tell you what they were looking for?

Thanks Cowtown guy forgot to include that, the firearms other than the .223 involved should have been a non issue.

I dunno the fact of the matter was its a wildlife violation and if the RCMP officer stated they were checking for stolen guns that would be totally unrelated to the hunting out of season.

Not disagreeing with you but I think I would have been demanding a warrant as soon as the talk went to checking firearms not involved in the offense.

But I guess even with the amnesty the minute you register a firearm you have waived some of you rights in regard to unlawful search and seizure.

Still, sheesh.....unreal

[Tundra Monkey]

BINGO. Case closed. If you are in cell phone coverage, use it.

Not me man....right is right....I'll take my chances and go with my heart.

tm

[jacob1202]

BINGO. Case closed. If you are in cell phone coverage, use it.

totally but u are straying from the original question... i asked if it was immoral not illegal... i also asked what u would have done... i know it was obviously illegal weve already established that

[jacob1202]

Thanks Cowtown guy forgot to include that, the firearms other than the .223 involved should have been a non issue.

I dunno the fact of the matter was its a wildlife violation and if the RCMP officer stated they were checking for stolen guns that would be totally unrelated to the hunting out of season.

Not disagreeing with you but I think I would have been demanding a warrant as soon as the talk went to checking firearms not involved in the offense.

But I guess even with the amnesty the minute you register a firearm you have waived some of you rights in regard to unlawful search and seizure.

Still, sheesh.....unreal

i know and i asked my lawyer about the whole warrant thing... and he said that because i was being charged with a crime they then had probable grounds to search my premesis ... kind of like when u get pulled over they cant search ur vehicle without permission or a warrant but if they charge u with smth they then can search

[baz]

Jacob,
Sorry, left the wrong impression. I absolutely agree with what you did and would have done a similar thing in my situation if required. Just exhaust all options before going there.

[jacob1202]

Jacob,
Sorry, left the wrong impression. I absolutely agree with what you did and would have done a similar thing in my situation if required. Just exhaust all options before going there.

no no ... what u did is what i should have done ... dont be sorry about that ... next time im in this situation im gonna do what u did lol

[Okotokian]

totally but u are straying from the original question... i asked if it was immoral not illegal... i also asked what u would have done... i know it was obviously illegal weve already established that

I didn't say anything about legality. I said use the cell phone. OK, how about this: "I would have used the cell phone to call F&W" Better?

[honda450]

Wnen I lived in BC going to work one day and came upon a injured bull moose in the ditch, no real damage just broken legs. Dispatched the fish cops who came out and shot it. Meanwhile my buddy who was there had a tag and told the fish cops I will tag it if ya let me have it. Reply was no. So after this the fish cop asks ya guys give me a hand loading it into my truck. Reply was no. And we left. We made that same route the next morning and that moose was still laying there. :wave:

[matathonman]

In all honesty I'd have done the same thing. Would've shot it if it was being pecked and chewed apart alive and not thought twice. Absolutely no body wants to see a critter go through that kind of pain and fear. That's why the judge threw it out of court. It would be better obviously to phone first but it all worked out in the end.

[The Rog Man]

I did a similar thing as you did a very long time ago with a similar outcome the only difference is I had the police on the fone when i pulled the trigger.
My sister hit a deer and broke three of its legs.
As soon As I said I was armed and they heard the shot it bacame a firearms call,
I was still detained against my will and had to fill out alot of paperwork to get my rifle back.
I would do it again on moral grounds regardless of the county i was in or if it was out of season.

[cougar bait]

i would have done the exact same thing. The fact that they came out to your farm with police to search is a joke. They abuse there power!! I cant believe they werent more concerned about you hunting coyotes off a snowmobile. I sometimes think that Fish cops work off commision because they come up with some crazy charges!

[Grizzly Adams]

i did call them. as soon as i got back into the house i called them straight away. but the problem was i didnt call them b4 i did it

Sometimes, it's better not to ask for for forgiveness. By calling them, you put them in a position, where they had to act.

Grizz

[Vindalbakken]

I have a question regarding suffering animals.

Is it legal to obtain a "found dead" permit for an animal that you have killed out of season? Not through illegal means of course. Say, you hit it on the highway, or it was trapped in a fence and was all shredded. (apparently the latter is illegal. (not to hijack the thread, sorry.))

Is this legal?

thanks for feedback,

-Jeff

It is my understanding that if you were in any way involved in the death of the animal you will not get a found dead permit for it.

[jacob1202]

really? my grandmother actually hit a nice buck a few years back with her car so we called fish and wildlife to tell them it drug itself through the ditch and into the bush with broken hind legs... my buddy had a tag still and it was almost the last day of the season so i asked f&w if we could tag it and low and behold long story short...hes now hanging on my buddies wall... the hardest buck we ever got lol

[jacob1202]

Sometimes, it's better not to ask for for forgiveness. By calling them, you put them in a position, where they had to act.

Grizz

didnt matter... i was already reported anyway by the neighbour... its prolly a good thing i did call in cuz it was what i was gonna base half of my case on if indeed it did go to court...

[lone wolf]

... i asked if it was immoral not illegal... i also asked what u would have done...

You did the right thing, and I would hope anyone who calls themselves a hunter & outdoorsman would have the courage to do the same. It really is too bad that you had to endure what you did for ending the suffering of an animal.

[sjemac]

Morals are your own. You alone have to abide by them -- or not. The law is the law and is only subject to the interpretation that unelected functionaries can give it.

Me? I have morals and they are ABOVE the law IMO. If my adherence to my morals results in a charge and conviction, I will take the consequences without complaint (will fight to NOT be convicted BTW). Sometimes the consequences are worth it (that takes some real consideration of what the consequences will be though).

[marlin1]

would have done the same thing ,no question

[Mountain Guy]

Boy am i different??
I woulda cut the animal loose....and let nature decide if the animal will survive or not.
These animals are tough.If they weren't we wouldn't be hunting them anymore.
I really don't understand how all you folks can say he did the right thing without actually being there.
I don't have a problem with your call based on what you thought was the right thing to do....... but I woulda done it different.

[Mountain Guy]

Oh.
I'll put this a different way.
If you were caught up in a fence...and badly cut up and looking like death warmed over... would you like someone to come up and pop you one, or would you prefer to be cut loose and see if you can make a go of er?? :confused:

[Rick65Cat]

Boy am i different??
I woulda cut the animal loose....and let nature decide if the animal will survive or not.
These animals are tough.If they weren't we wouldn't be hunting them anymore.
I really don't understand how all you folks can say he did the right thing without actually being there.
I don't have a problem with your call based on what you thought was the right thing to do....... but I woulda done it different.

So how can YOU say what was right or wrong? Were you there to observe the deers condition?
Not trying to flame here....just seems like a strange statement

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

I would have done the same thing as , now as for the ex friend, he might be the next thing found wrapped up in barbed wire fence wth the birds pickin out his @@$

[The Bit Runner.]

You defianatly did the right thing.No question.I hit a cow moose with my truck many years ago and i shot her to put her out of her misery.The local farmer called fish and wildlife on me.Fish and wildlife showed up with a police car asked why i shot the moose,Explained to them as well as look at my truck and he thanked me for shooting the moose,end of story.No more questions were asked,other than if i had called a tow truck because my truck was totaly destroyed.Sometimes we just have to make the right decission that we feel is right.I wont see a animal suffer.

[.257Weatherby]

It would be interesting to know the other side of the story.
You know the CO's side....I myself from what I have read (first post)
upon finding an animal suffering would have put the animal out of its miszery too.
I likely would have reported it somewhere along the line as well and give directions to the location not to mention take many pictures for evidence just in case what eventually happened, someone with a bone to pick calling the RCMP or CO Service and claiming I shot an animal out of season.
It would appear that no common sense prevailed in the case of the original post
Common sense on the CO's part....well initially at least.
Final charges where , dropped???
Again, given the same situation I would ahve done the same thing and report my actions ASAP.
Rob

[Jimboy]

Boy am i different??
I woulda cut the animal loose....and let nature decide if the animal will survive or not.
These animals are tough.If they weren't we wouldn't be hunting them anymore.
I really don't understand how all you folks can say he did the right thing without actually being there.
I don't have a problem with your call based on what you thought was the right thing to do....... but I woulda done it different.

You would then be charged for cutting the landowners fence and likly still be in jail , lololo

[KENWORTH]

a complete wate of the courts time,...the person who " phoned you in " should be handed the bill for all your time and headache it has caused you. I would have done the same thing,...but I would never have got off the assult charge,:evilgrin:

[marlin1]

you guys that would have cut it loose, it sounded pretty bad " rotting,half eaten by birds and magpies?" I think it was beyond recovery

[pdfish]

You did the right thing, myself and all of my hunting partners would've done the same thing. The only mistake you made was taking your neighbour.
I know the F&W officer was only acting on the letter of the law, but really, whatever happened to common sense? I'll stop now before I say something I may regret.

[flyguyd]

You did the right thing . I would and have done the same thing myself.

[honda450]

Geez mountain guy I don't carry a set of wire cutters while out huntin. :D

[bigj]

Our hunting group had a similar experience this past november.We had seen a 6 by 6 elk earlier in the day who had a bummed front shoulder having a hard time running.Later as we were driving out of the area we came across him again,tangled very badly in a barbed wire fence.We called f&w told them the situation.We cut the fence but he was too far gone so they told us to shoot him.Aquired a permit for the meat and the antlers.What a gross situation to be put in.If i came across this again i wouldnt think twice about ending the suffering in a heartbeat.Made my stomach turn to see such a beatiful animal in so much agony.

[Mountain Guy]

I knew I would get jumped on..
It's funny how guys are quick to say ''pull the trigger'' and quick to jump on someone who may see things a little differently.
Someone mentioned how,maybe a picture would be a good thing. If the animal was as he indicates it was , a picture would have probably have prevented a trip to the courthouse.
An aquintance reported him? Something seems a little strange here. IS there some history here that you all don't know about.

If were talking an animal hit by a car, that is a totally different story.

I would like to say that I'm a hunter as well, but I'm also a person who has a lot of respect for the animals I hunt. I guess maybe a little more than some on here.

I won't jump to the conclusion that that particular animal was doomed, because I wasn't there.
I also won't feed ammo into anti-hunters who would jump all over most of you for the ''put the bullet in it's head'' immediately senario.

Oh.... I forgot to mention that I would have repaired the fence and notified the landowner.

The End.

[gunman300]

I would have to say you did the right thing. I would make an anonymous call from a pay phone explaining the situation to F&W. Give location but not my name.

[jacob1202]

I knew I would get jumped on..
It's funny how guys are quick to say ''pull the trigger'' and quick to jump on someone who may see things a little differently.
Someone mentioned how,maybe a picture would be a good thing. If the animal was as he indicates it was , a picture would have probably have prevented a trip to the courthouse.
An aquintance reported him? Something seems a little strange here. IS there some history here that you all don't know about.

If were talking an animal hit by a car, that is a totally different story.

I would like to say that I'm a hunter as well, but I'm also a person who has a lot of respect for the animals I hunt. I guess maybe a little more than some on here.

I won't jump to the conclusion that that particular animal was doomed, because I wasn't there.
I also won't feed ammo into anti-hunters who would jump all over most of you for the ''put the bullet in it's head'' immediately senario.

Oh.... I forgot to mention that I would have repaired the fence and notified the landowner.

The End.

yeah partner... u got critisized... but like i asked from the start... was it immoral... if thats what ur morals told u to do than that was the right decision for u... despite what anyone says... i shot the damn thing in the back of the head cuz thats what i thought was best for it at that time... u would have done what u would of... and u would stick by it and think it was right... and to u it is right... and dont let anyone tell u that it wasnt

[rugatika]

You absolutely did the right thing...trouble is the damn bureaurats that demand following the letter of the law and NOT the intent cannot seem to differentiate between someone doing a good deed and someone out to commit a crime.

I would have (and have) done the same thing although not with a rifle. Found a coyote that had it's back end run over...nobody had a rifle so a pipe wrench had to suffice. Never bothered to call anyone.

I've rescued a hawk and an owl from a fence before and if you think it would be easy extracting a deer from a fence...guess again. The hawk was seemingly in not bad shape...I took it to the vet after phoning F&W, but they said it was too severely damaged. The owl...I cut it loose and it just limped away hissing at me for my trouble...lol. Not sure what became of it.

Bottom line is that you did the right thing. It is incredibly unfortunate and totally wrong that you had to go through all the hassle of having RCMP etc over without a warrant and then go to court etc etc etc...for something that they really should have been thanking you for. The world's going topsy turvy if you ask me. 20yrs ago this would have been a non-issue and I suspect F&W would have laughed at your neighbour for bothering to phone this in.

[AB2506]

You did the right thing in a tough situation, and have shown that you truly respect and care for the wildlife you hunt, and the world around you. F&W also did what they had to do, as well as the RCMP. As long as they were respectful, and not harsh or bullying then the results were exactly what they should of been given the situation. It is regretable that you were placed in said position due to you longtime friends/acquaintances actions though. Have you discussed the outcome with them? Did they witness your deed, or did they just hear about it and then call. What would they have done?

Yes it worked out for him, a dismissal of the charges. But he will forever have a F&W record, and maybe a firearms record with the RCMP. Any time he has dealings with them, he will be judged with some suspicion, even if the evidence doesn't support anything.

Call F&W and let them deal with it. Just not worth the hassle unfortunately. Morally, you did the right thing, legally, it will haunt you.

[duffy4]

As you describe the situation, I would have done the same and would think it IS the moral thing to do. It would seem that the judge thought so too.

Hard to say what the neighbour reported? He may have said "This son of a b shot my dog last year and now he has shot a deer out of season, He has a pile of guns at home...etc"

F&W rely heavily on calls from the public and so they have a "responsibility" to act on them. Still I would think that most officers I know of would have sorted things out without a court appearance.

Whoever was responsible for leaving wire out for the deer to get tangled in may need to take some responsibility for this event.

[bisonhunter]

you did the morally right thing, end it's suffering and carry on. i've had to put down many over the years from badgers to bison, not one of them would have made it, i know that in my heart as they were busted up terribly. no-one saw me, and nothing was ever reported, but i know the right thing was done for the poor suffering animal. i wasn't trying to get away with anything, just doing what was right.

[Mountain Guy]

yeah partner... u got critisized... but like i asked from the start... was it immoral... if thats what ur morals told u to do than that was the right decision for u... despite what anyone says... i shot the damn thing in the back of the head cuz thats what i thought was best for it at that time... u would have done what u would of... and u would stick by it and think it was right... and to u it is right... and dont let anyone tell u that it wasnt

I never said you did the wrong thing. I wasn't there. I will say that you ( or anyone else) can massage the story to your liking for the sake of your point or arguement.
I will say that the ''reporter'' and the investigator obviously saw it different than you, thus a trip to the courthouse was in order.
I would think that if the deer was as emaciated as you say it was, and you reported what you did ( because killing a deer out of season is illegal in this province) the outcome would have been different.

Cheers. :)

[gramps73]

Yes it worked out for him, a dismissal of the charges. But he will forever have a F&W record, and maybe a firearms record with the RCMP. Any time he has dealings with them, he will be judged with some suspicion, even if the evidence doesn't support anything.

Call F&W and let them deal with it. Just not worth the hassle unfortunately. Morally, you did the right thing, legally, it will haunt you.

Ab
a little off topic put that is horse **** yes he was charged but not convicted why should it stay on his record? IT SHOULD NEVER COME AGAIN.

[gunman300]

Ab
a little off topic put that is horse **** yes he was charged but not convicted why should it stay on his record? IT SHOULD NEVER COME AGAIN.
I agree 100% with you gramps. Unfortuately things do not work that way. I was charged with assualt a few years ago. Not convicted but the charge remains on my record until I applied to get it removed. That took me almost a year to get done. It takes a minute to put it on your record but a year to get it off and 600 bucks. Complete BS. The law is quick to ruin your life but takes no time or responsibilty to help straighten thier dumb mistakes. It's just "Oops, see you later."

[Riderfan]

You did the right thing.

A follow up call to F&W would not have hurt.



Agree with this. Do what you have to do and then let the authorities know about it. As hunters, we are constantly told that we should not let an animal suffer. If in your opinion that animal had no chance to survive, you did the right thing. Can't say much for the person that called you in. Did they have something personal against you?

[huntinstuff]

I'm sort of wondering why the RCMP were involved in the first place, its a wildlife violation that as far as I can tell from the OP did not involve any threats or violence.

And didn't happen in Toronto.:)

Maybe Huntinstuff can shed some light on this.

Anyone that I know of that has had a "visit" in regards to a alleged wildlife investigation (eg out of season,tresspass, overlimit) was visited by a SRD officer not RCMP.

RCMP will respond to "in progress" calls, in rural areas. If F&W needs to go to a home for a search or something relating to an arrest, the RCMP provide back up bacause it something goes wrong, the RCMP calling it in will get faster better results than F&W...

As for a warrantless search, that would be based solely on the information given to them by the reporter of the incident. The reporter would have had to satisfy the legal requirements of an "extingent circumstance", by way of his information.

You need some pretty good information to be allowed a warrantless search for extingent circumstances.......Someone shooting a deer trapped in a fence would not, in itself, form a basis for such a warrant.

Shooting a man trapped in a fence would.......

[HunterDave]

I'd like to know if after you shot the deer did you leave it as you found it, all tangled up in the wire? As I understand it, F&W officers have to investigate before laying charges. If the F&W CO went to the scene of the crime, he has the authority to decide whether or not a charge is warranted. I don't understand how a CO could decide that a charge is warranted if he saw that the deer was all tangled up in the wire.

[coolpool]

You did exactly what I would have done. Hat's off to you;)

[smith88]

Mountain Guy, how is it different if the deer got hit by a car?

Cars have been around for roughly a hundred years and fences every miles have been around almost as long. Both are man made and are not natural so I ask again, how are they different?

[Mountain Guy]

Mountain Guy, how is it different if the deer got hit by a car?

Cars have been around for roughly a hundred years and fences every miles have been around almost as long. Both are man made and are not natural so I ask again, how are they different?

A deer hit by a car, laying on the side of the road is, quite frankly not going to survive. Probably a broken leg or 2 or maybe a broken back.
Quite different than a deer caught up in a fence.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that a deer in a fence probably didn't suffer any major injury. I'm not a vet, but I think that a deer caught in a fence probably has a chance of surviving if released.

I actually find it quite odd that I'm the ONLY guy on here that would have considered or tried to release the deer.

The mentality to quickly put a bullet in it's head just doesn't seem like the right response, and to me fuels the fire and helps breed an anti-hunting sentiment.

[Banger]

I actually find it quite odd that I'm the ONLY guy on here that would have considered or tried to release the deer.



You dont know how many days the deer had been there. If there were coyotes and ravens were picking at it, like the story says, what are the chances its going to live. Unless you were there it is pretty hard to think other wise. I would like to think if the deer was in good health and just stuck he would have tried to cut it loose. But like i said, i wanst there and have to take the man for his word. And based on that i would have done the same thing.

[Mountain Guy]

You dont know how many days the deer had been there. If there were coyotes and ravens were picking at it, like the story says, what are the chances its going to live. Unless you were there it is pretty hard to think other wise. I would like to think if the deer was in good health and just stuck he would have tried to cut it loose. But like i said, i wanst there and have to take the man for his word. And based on that i would have done the same thing.

Where do you read there '' were ravens and coyotes picking at it'' ??
He didn't say that??
I think if it was stuck for days that the coyotes woulda got it already.
'I don't think were hearing the whole story here.

I've said it before.....maybe he did the right thing , maybe not.
I would have handled it different. And I know I wouldn't be going to court either!!
I just don't understand all the hero status Jacob's getting, and all the pats on the back for doing something that may very well have been the WRONG thing to do.
I won't jump to that conclusion like most here are obviously doing.

[Banger]

Where do you read there '' were ravens and coyotes picking at it'' ??




well i know for a fact because the coyotes were already on it just b4 i came accross it... thats why i noticed it... i seen 4 of them screw off in all directions when i came around the treeline... plus there was birds picking on its back end... it needed to be shot!!!


Maybe im assuming the birds are ravens.... but i think that would be a safe assumption based on the statement, maybe mag pies but i think its a mute point really.

You are right we may not be hearing the whole story. But based on what we did hear, i would agree with him and what he did. Maybe if we heard his "buddy's" side of the story i might change my mind but all we know is the story he told. So IF the story is how we have heard it, then all i can say is i would of done the same thing.

[havesomeclass]

The whole story sounds like BS. It would have been nice to hear f&W side of the story. No matter the IQ of the fish cop that came and discovered the animal. Would charge anybody, if he saw a half eaten deer that struggled in a fence for days.

As for the nosy neighbor. Funny he or she would be watching so intently with you around in the first place. Sounds like maybe theres some history there. Or maybe some people watch when they see guy's on snowmobiles with guns. Shooting at wildlife.

As for the question was it immoral? Well each to his own. I have a hard time telling someone else whats moral and whats not. If your over the age of 15 you should have it figured out. If so; asking complete strangers if it was? Should make no difference.

I have a question. Is it moral to ride ski doo's to run down animals and shoot them? Coyotes or not. When you post that and then post the incident about a deer in a fence. Makes the whole deer story less then credible.

Oh by the way if the deer was like you say it was. Hell ya put it down. But phone the authority's or the person that owns the property. Then it probably would look a little better. Just a thought.

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE=havesomeclass;493439]The whole story sounds like BS. It would have been nice to hear f&W side of the story.

I'd be interested in their side of the story to.......but if the story is true, obviously the Judge thought they were out to lunch.



I have a question. Is it moral to ride ski doo's to run down animals and shoot them? Coyotes or not.

Yup :wave: and up here it's even legal.....but only if you intend to kill it :D

Actually it's one of my favourite laws of all time :lol:

tm

[forest walker]

I would have shot the deer as well. Common sense really.

[jacob1202]

A deer hit by a car, laying on the side of the road is, quite frankly not going to survive. Probably a broken leg or 2 or maybe a broken back.
Quite different than a deer caught up in a fence.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that a deer in a fence probably didn't suffer any major injury. I'm not a vet, but I think that a deer caught in a fence probably has a chance of surviving if released.

I actually find it quite odd that I'm the ONLY guy on here that would have considered or tried to release the deer.

The mentality to quickly put a bullet in it's head just doesn't seem like the right response, and to me fuels the fire and helps breed an anti-hunting sentiment.

if you read a little bit more there partner u would see that the coyotes were already eating on it and so were the birds... it needed to be shot... end of fricken story

[jacob1202]

i shouldnt have written this thread... there are a "few" very very dumb people on this forum that have nothing better to do than sit behind a damn keyboard and judge others for their actions... whats done is done... and we werent running down coyotes for your damn information... we were out watching a bait spot wich happened to be a neighbours dead cow laying in the field... we were using the snowmobiles only to get to and from... jeeeebus christ people?!?!?!?!? get out of your house more often

[Bear]

i shouldnt have written this thread... there are a "few" very very dumb people on this forum that have nothing better to do than sit behind a damn keyboard and judge others for their actions... whats done is done... and we werent running down coyotes for your damn information... we were out watching a bait spot wich happened to be a neighbours dead cow laying in the field... we were using the snowmobiles only to get to and from... jeeeebus christ people?!?!?!?!? get out of your house more often

One of the big problems is that you yourself asked for people to judge you buy asking if it was immoral. What did you expect, everyone to clap you on the back and say "Well done sir"?

I don't agree or disagree but seems you are mighty touchy over it. Maybe you are right and should not have started the thread.

[Rigby]

Good on you man! As for F&W i think if they seen the situation and did any sort of investigation they were just been pigheaded. There is no need to allow a animal to suffer as in your situation and should have respected the situation you were in. especially since you called them as soon as you got home. Then they should have been on the seen as soon as possible to review the situation and seen you were doing the right thing! Good for you and i would have done the same!

[Mountain Guy]

if you read a little bit more there partner u would see that the coyotes were already eating on it and so were the birds... it needed to be shot... end of fricken story

Then you should ''end the fricken story'' :rolleye2:

I said my piece awhile back, but keep getting drug in having to defend the fact that I don't buy a story without hearing the other side. I'm not ''dumb'' enough to let someone whom I don't know from a hole in the ground,tell his side of the story ( especially one like this ) and under the pretences of how it was told.
Sorry, no pat on the back from me.

I think Bear sums it up nicely.

The end '' of my story''

MG.

[Cooeylover]

You done the right thing, Although a call first to F&W would have been better. But, thats what life is about, live and learn. :)

Now, about your "sell-out" buddy.............:mad:

I would hold a grudge on him for twice as long as any kind of penalty that you would have got if you had been convicted of anything. With friends like that who needs enemies???

Shows what they are like, so get rid of him out of your life!! They will jsut stab you in the back again given half a chance.:mad3:

:wave:

[jacob1202]

One of the big problems is that you yourself asked for people to judge you buy asking if it was immoral. What did you expect, everyone to clap you on the back and say "Well done sir"?

I don't agree or disagree but seems you are mighty touchy over it. Maybe you are right and should not have started the thread.

i got touchy not over the fact that i shot the doe in the back of the head and could care less what anyone says about it but over the fact that i was accused of running down coyotes on my snowmobile... thats what i got touchy about...ill let my dogs at them b4 i run one down on a snowmachine...

[jacob1202]

You done the right thing, Although a call first to F&W would have been better. But, thats what life is about, live and learn. :)

Now, about your "sell-out" buddy.............:mad:

I would hold a grudge on him for twice as long as any kind of penalty that you would have got if you had been convicted of anything. With friends like that who needs enemies???

Shows what they are like, so get rid of him out of your life!! They will jsut stab you in the back again given half a chance.:mad3:

:wave:

yeah hes not a buddy never has been... hes my neighbour... my old man has dealt with him almost his whole life... weve been good to him... fed his cows when his tractor broke down ... i used to break his horses when i was 15... im feeling the need to tell F&W about the countless walleye he keeps in his freezer... but im not like that

[Payne 17]

In my opinon its best to call fish and wildelife and let them deal with the issue so thing dont happen like they happened to you.It is great that you put the deer down but unfortunate that you were reported for trying to help an animal.

[Jerry D]

Shoot the deer and let it lie. I would have called no one or told no one.

The hell with wasting everyone else's time on a matter that is black and white.

[Vindalbakken]

We have Wildlife officers to identify offenses of the written law. We have judges to determine the relative points of the offense. Officers don't judge. Judges do. That is the way the system is set up to operate. When officers start acting as judge the system breaks down and problems occur.

Seems to me like this whole thing played out exactly as the system is designed. A concerned citizen witnesses what appears to be a violation of the Wildlife Act (shooting a deer out of season). The Wildlife Officer investigates and finds that indeed a deer has been shot out of season and issues a ticket. The judge hears the merits of the case and decides that he will excuse the breaking of the law.

No one acted improperly and no one was wronged. Especially not the neighbor who reported what appeared to be, and indeed was, an illegal act against our wildlife.

[Okotokian]

One of the big problems is that you yourself asked for people to judge you buy asking if it was immoral. What did you expect, everyone to clap you on the back and say "Well done sir"?


I suspect you have it exactly right. He asked the question, and then whenever someone said they didn't think it was moral or ethical he would argue the point vigorously. It's clear he believes he was acting morally and properly (which is fine), so not sure the purpose of the thread in the first place. I'd say he wasn't asking a question, he was asking for acknowledgement and support.

[rayf01]

I think this is an example of how every part of the system actually worked correctly....

1.) You did the correct thing in ending the animals life.
2.) You reported it.
3.) Someone else reported it as well. (By the sounds of it, it wasn't your buddy, just another person you know.)
4.) F&W investigated and held up the law for an animal being illegally killed out of season.
5.) RCMP checked all your gear and property for any illegally harvested animals or rifle/ammunitions.
6.) The courts found you innocent for obvious reasons.

There are checks and balances to it all, I am sure this could have happened with a potential poacher as well who was lying persay. RCMP would have executed a search warrant and found possible incriminating evidence hence pressing charges.

I understand it was long, drawn out, felt like you were being invaded and not to mention the cost to tax payers. But all in all it sounds like everything that the government has put in to place to protect animals etc worked correctly.

[Lone_Wolf]

You did the right thing. I would have done the same. Some people just don't know the concept of common sense.

[HunterDave]

We have Wildlife officers to identify offenses of the written law. We have judges to determine the relative points of the offense. Officers don't judge. Judges do. That is the way the system is set up to operate. When officers start acting as judge the system breaks down and problems occur.

I can't say that I agree with that statement being true. A Wildlife Officer is supposed to use common sense during his investigation. He has the authority to decide whether or not a charge is warranted based on the law and his common sense. If Wildlife Officers didn't bring common sense into every investigation then the courts would be backlogged with bogus charges and they'd be getting chewed out by the judges for wasting their time.

I'd still like to know if the deer was left wrapped up in the wire after being shot.