Bad news for BC Salmon

[DuckBrat]

http://vimeo.com/9646074


Sad and not many care??

[Takmaster]

That is brutal... It's not that nobody cares; its just not in front of our noses so we don't pay attention. I think it is gross mismanagement on DFO's part to allow open water pens. I support LAND-based fish farms. I refuse to buy salmon from stores because of the malpractice in commercial fish farming. This is only one of the many problems plaguing the west coast salmon right now. They don't stand a chance. Then you get guys wondering why the wild stocks are disappearing so fast. Growing up, spending summers on Takla Lake I can remember runs of late Stuart sockeye so numerous you could have walked across their backs to get to the other side of the creek. When my family sold the cabins in '05 we had less than a dozen fish return that year. It is disheartening that future generations will not know what we have taken for granted for so long.

[uicehole]

Oh but they implement a stringent management system already to save the wild salmon - they regulate what the sportfishers can and can't take!:mad3::mad2::mad::(
When the salmon's gone, they'll blame the sportfisherman for overharvesting.

[dss44]

The sea lice debate has been going on and on for ages...while some say it is harmful, others say it isn't...there are debates for both sides, however, should stand on the side of caution in my opinion. However, many rivers had unreal returns this past year, and are supposed to get even better.

The sea lice numbers and information collected by the provincial gov't are now being made public...so within a couple weeks we'll know exactly the impact that the DFO scientists have found...

[howlin]

id hesitate to take whatever the media has to offer.they tend to twist it into whatever they want .ive caught wild salmon and they had lice,farmed the fish dont have the luxuries to scrape them off like in the wild .havent seen sea lice really hurt nothing yet (altho they do seem to bite me).in the long run we need farmed fish to keep the wild going.at least there is something else to eat while the wild ones regain strength.with the natives netting ,and everyone else fishing ,how do you think that wild stocks are to survive?

[tacklerunner]

Salmon Resource Management is at an all time high on the west coast. I have fished the west coast salmon fishery for over 20 years; 1000's of salmon, all species. I have NEVER caught a salmon not carrying sea lice. But I don't understand the cause for concern. Fish farms are new to me as I haven't had the experience of needing to differentiate between farmed and wild salmon until recently.

Sea lice, as I have known, are just part of the food chain and never caused harm to a salmon as they caught a ride to the fish cleaning station. I must not be with the times. Perhaps it's human intervention and the "farming" of fish that create these issues. Nevertheless, it comes down to harvesting valuable fish and ultimately the dollar; no different than cattle now encompassing elk and bison and ostrich and........in Alberta. Ok I know an Ostrich is not cattle.

This is simply my insight and experience.

[DuckBrat]

Sea lice populations become concentrated and populations explode at Farm sites. The farm sites are located in backwater areas usually near the mouths of nursery rivers or narrow channels (places where fry concentrate). When Salmon fry leave the river they are assaulted by this cloud of Sea lice. Even one or two Lice on a Fry is enough to kill it. The density of Lice in these areas can devastate an entire years hatch. The large population of Sea Lice is not natural and is a direct result of the Salmon Farm practices.

[dss44]

Sea lice populations become concentrated and populations explode at Farm sites. The farm sites are located in backwater areas usually near the mouths of nursery rivers or narrow channels (places where fry concentrate). When Salmon fry leave the river they are assaulted by this cloud of Sea lice. Even one or two Lice on a Fry is enough to kill it. The density of Lice in these areas can devastate an entire years hatch. The large population of Sea Lice is not natural and is a direct result of the Salmon Farm practices.

That is what most say the problem is. Another thing that some friends of the family witnessed is the Atlantic salmon actually eating the fry as they swam through the pens. Problem is the pens are usually shoreline, and the fry swim along the shoreline on their way out of the inlets...if the pens were offshore there would not be nearly as large of a problem...the sea lice are only extremely harmful for the fry, not particularily harmful for a full grown salmon.

However, with that being said, I'd take anything Alexandra Morton said with a grain of salt...I know several people that used to serve on a board with this woman and she's not all there. Even believed that large male black bears were eating cubs because the bears on Vancouver Island were starving due to logging...:lol::lol::lol::lol: And she calls herself a biologist...anyone with half a brain knows the boars eat the cubs to put the females back into heat...they are men after all :lol::lol:

[howlin]

yep ,media intervention, people gotta wake up and see it for what it really is ,a chance to scew things there way to make them money

[big]

i clicked on the video and right when i saw that woman (typical grey haired NDP looking Beach)i screamed dyke and closed the window

[dss44]

:lol: While you should try and take everything she says with a grain of salt...she has done a lot for the wild salmon of BC...and I think it is vitol to air on the side of caution and get this fish farm mess cleaned up.

[DuckBrat]

i clicked on the video and right when i saw that woman (typical grey haired NDP looking Beach)i screamed dyke and closed the window

Typical I don't care attitude. Head in the sand or in your *****.

[Okotokian]

IMHO the whole "farming" of wild species, be they salmon or elk, has pretty much been a disaster. The number of people who benefit from such operations is incredibly small (and in the case of aquaculture most of them are foreign corporations), but society as a whole has to bear the cost of fixing the problem. A major re-think needs to be done.

[oagie]

Here is another interesting read on the subject contradicting her report.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/86391847.html

[DuckBrat]

Here is another interesting read on the subject contradicting her report.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/86391847.html

It's a nice smokescreen by the industry in an effort to save themselves. I have personally seen the these areas and concur with the findings. As was said earlier any farming of wild species turns out bad. Good thing for them their is always a government official eager to back up the industry.

[Sundancefisher]

My philosophy is as follows:

1) Fanatical wing nuts are very necessary in our society to draw attention to problems that are "out of sight and out of mind"

2) Once public attention is draw...the wings nut must:

a) Leave the scene and let normal course research and prevail to determine if in fact their is a problem.

b) Continue to meddle and poke and instill their fanatical beliefs to the point that both sides can not be believed.

This has happened time and time again.

Whales and their extinction plight was brought to the world's attention. After the initial fanatical escapades they were adopted by main stream after initial research. Now interestingly enough they are back demanding zero tolerance for hunting. It has gone from science to ideology.

People like this lady are drawing attention but when they get caught being wrong...it will seriously harm the efforts.

Near as I can tell is that:

1. Lice are naturally occurring but under certain densities are just back ground noise to general fish populations.
2. Lice in higher densities do harm fish by impeding health, condition factor, predator avoidance, growth rates, disease resistance.
3. Lice do seem to be increasing unusually along the coast line where salmon migrate.
4. Some salmon migrations from the Fraser for instance seem to be impacted by some as not yet proven factor.
5. There is a huge lobby group for salmon farms and they have lots of political support due to job.
6. There is also a huge green environmentalist group in BC that opposes a lot of things.


While more research is needed...care needs to be applied to ensure viable salmon populations.

I would like to see a conference on this topic and read the scientific proceedings.

IMHO

[DuckBrat]

When I search the subject I am finding numerous studies from across North America that prove Sea Lice densities in and near Fish Farms are high and unnatural. Respected names like UBC, University of Alberta, California, and the list goes on, and all have taken part in the documentation. The findings have been verified and the location of fish farms in and along Salmon Fry Migartion routes are taking their toll. Studies are great and provide the data for change. Now who will show the initiative? The clock is running for many runs of Salmon in these areas.

[Okotokian]

My philosophy is as follows:

1) Fanatical wing nuts are very necessary in our society to draw attention to problems that are "out of sight and out of mind"

2) Once public attention is draw...the wings nut must:

a) Leave the scene and let normal course research and prevail to determine if in fact their is a problem.

b) Continue to meddle and poke and instill their fanatical beliefs to the point that both sides can not be believed.



That's a good point and sort of reflects my own thinking (so of course I would think it's a good point :lol:)

It's the extremes these groups go to that causes problems, but we do need them. They do shine lights on things that need to be looked at. Society needs to listen to them, and then say "OK, got it. Thanks. We'll take it from here. Go away".

[big]

duckbrat is a flaming homosexual...nobody listen to him please.

[DuckBrat]

Well played, thanks for all the nice Private messages too.

[fluxcore]

duckbrat is a flaming homosexual...nobody listen to him please.

Your a loser............ As far as fish farms go I was raised in Gold River and grew up fishing nootka sound. A few friends worked at the fishfarms and maby still do. We would fish our usuall spots like camel rock, houst point, three bay cove or head out towards open water and fish across from the light house called eskalanies. We had a bad experience and heard of many more when fishing a bay with a fish farm where the fish caught were covered and i mean covered in sea lice, these were not the farmed atlantic salmon but our wild stocks. can someone explain this one? George1979 currently has a family cabin out there and fishes it every year since he was little as well and he can echo the same thing.

[fisher Gord]

Any body that thinks open pen fish farms are alright, check out what happened in Chile to the resident fish populations near fish farms or to the native salmon populations of Norway where most of the profit from fish farms goes.

[joinerman]

Salmon farms decimate wild salmon thats a fact, i have been to the west coast of Scotland where many rivers with salmon farms in their estuaries have seen their wild salmon stocks plumet with many rivers such as the kinglass in loch fyne now officially extinct of its wild stock, sealice and decease are to blame but like in BC big money from this industry seems to lubricate the wheels of office so that elected officials convenently side with the fish farms, one undisputed fact is that where ever salmon farms are located the wild salmon numbers get decimated, this is a documented fact.

One female sealouse on every salmon in a farm with 700,000 fish will produce 14,000,000 larvae every two weeks, the current treatment threashold is three lice per fish, anybody not see a problem here.

[Headdamage]

I used to work as a biologist/fish tech for a large fish farming company on the West Coast. Their response to my finding high numbers of lice on the fish was to stop me from checking the fish for lice... if it isn't documented it isn't a problem, that is the way they do their science. There are all sorts of other problems related to the farms to... in short don't buy farmed salmon.

[ctd]

I know a few people who work the fish farms on the west coast and they moniter very closley for sea lice and other disease. Needless to say when they set up pens in new areas that Fish Farms have not been into before or close to and see runs of wild salmon come through and then their fish are covered in sea lice it makes one wonder.
Fish Farms on the west coast have taken a huge amount of pressure off the commercial fishery by providing salmon to the overseas market which has a huge demand for it.
If you want to look at why stocks are lower then normal then take a look at what a seine boat catches in a few hours of fishing. I have seen whole schools of fish gone with only a trace sign of anything left after one of these boats sets it net. If those fish in that school all belong to the same river (they usually do) then they will not be returning to that river ever again.

Over fishing has been one of the main causes of the up and down of the fishery, but like in everything else find the easy way to blame to shift attention.

[joinerman]

The BC fish farming industry curently dumps raw sewage equivelant to a city of 1,285,000 people directly into the ocean, they are the only industry allowed to do this, Norway Scotland and Ireland have all experienced the toxic algae blooms that come with this type of pollution, BC has also experienced them but to a lesser degree, to allow this type of industry to expand or carry on in their present form is criminal, as for taking the pressure of the wild stocks, this is not true, the effect of salmon farming has been to decimate wild stocks thus increasing the pressure on them, it also takes 5lbs of ground up fish made into fish meal to produce 1LB of farmed salmon, would it not be better just to feed the 5lb of fish to the popu.
lation instead of grinding it up, adding antibiotics and pesticides before feeding it to the salmon, for everybodys info the pesticide fed to the salmon (slice)is highly toxic to both humans and the marine environment.