Marie Lake Injustice

[Smokey]

For the life of me, I can not comprehend the hole Marie Lake thing, and was hoping for some insight. What is the plan of the oil companies to do with this lake, and why are is this government going to allow the destruction of one of our most valuable resources, water? I may be unknowledgeable about what is going on, but why are they doing seismic testing on this lake. Is it not bad enough that we rape our pristine wilderness for money as it is, and now they want to do damage to a lake. Is there not more than enough oil sands up north without having to stoop to this level of destruction. I am no where being a tree hugger, please enlighten me!

[Penner]

Well that makes two of us Smokey. I don't get it either.

Most everyone involved with the Marie Lake issue knows 99.9% for sure that there is a large oil reserve lying directly beneath the lake. However, the provincial government will not allow any exploration unless you can prove it 100.0% for certain. Thus the need for the seismic tests to prove it 100%.

The seismic testing they are going to conduct on Marie Lake will take place on the lake itself. They will utilize boats that tow air cannons which will detonate a compressed air charge just below the lakes surface causing a loud bang. The loud bang will create sound waves that will bounce off the bottom of the lake back to the measuring instruments and depending how it bounces back tells them what’s below the lake. The best part is that this loud bang will exceed +200db (decibels) and they plan to discharge the cannons over +10,000 times all over the lake and will take a month or two to complete depending on weather, etc. By the way a jet airplane at full throttle goes in the neighbour hood of 140db (decibels) and humans can begin to experience significant hearing loss at around 100db (decibels). Internal organs can be damaged at 185db (decibels).

I wonder how the fish will make out? :rolleyes: According to Minster Ted Mortron as per his response to me in a letter “there is little to no risk to the fish as similar seismic tests on other lakes in Alberta showed very little fish mortality”. What he fails to realize is that the magnitude of those other tests was not even close to the magnitude or scale of testing that is going to occur on Marie Lake Or that a separate published government report even stated that there was “fish mortally experienced during air cannon seismic testing” on a lake in Alberta. Or that the US Navy Seals specify that their divers are to be at a minimum of 2.0km away for the point source of similar seismic tests that occur out on the oceans.

The oil company performing the testing and eventually trying to extract the oil from beneath Marie Lake (OSUM Corp.) plan to construct some type of horizontal cavern(s) roughly 0.5km beneath the lake and then extract the oil from the cavern’s utilizing SAGD type technology to bring the oil to the surface to be upgraded and then shipped down the pipeline. OSUM Corp is a brand new company all privately funded and the proposed “cavern” method technology has never been used in Alberta. It appears that our current Government has little concern for this. :confused:

One could anticipate an oil facility(ies) similar to those around Bourque Lake. Should make for a pleasant outdoor experience, right? :rolleyes: Again it appears that Minster Ted Mortron or Premier Ed Stelmach for that matter have no concerns about this either even though the MLA for Bonnyville/Cold Lake Dennis Ducharme wants this all stopped now. All ignored.

There is a reason why Imperial Oiland Husky Oil did not purchase the oil leases rights under or around Marie Lake. Steady Eddy and OSUM Corp. are in for a battle if they go through with this. :mad2:

For now writing a letter or calling the Premier directly voicing your opposition to this is the best approach. It’s not too late. Rumour has it that legal representation and 3rd party independent environmental research company has been hired by a few of the local residents and appropriate action is being considered. Also being considered , access being denied to the lake for all non-recreational boats and vehicles (there are only real 4 boat launches on the lake and you need to cross privately owned land for each launch).

[SNAPFisher]

Make that 3 of us.

Thanks for the thoughtful post back Penner. That is interesting what you are saying about just the sheer number of tests. I did the same as you and wrote Stelmach, Morton, Ducharme and others. I'm going to continue the dialogue and write again with similar line of reasoning.

Regards.

[steveo10]

I was talkin to a guy that stays at a father-in-laws cabin there. He said the sesimic shots will effect everything 300ft of the shot. Imagine what its gonna do to the fish. If you stick from sound waves below the water its suppose to screw up the seismic? :)

Underneath the lake is suppose to be 1 of the biggest finds of bitumen? 8B$?
Funny thing about this situation is the 1/2 of the ppl on the lake is in the oilpatch and would jump on the project in a heartbeat

[Smokey]

I am going to write a letter to Morton asking that during those seismic tests that he should demonstrate that it is safe for all the wildlife and fish in Marie Lake by swimming in the lake 100 meters from the where the tests occur. Then I may believe him that their is little concern for the fish and birds. I am not normally one to divulge my political opinions online, but I gotta say that with this Moronic/ or Mortonic scheme to extract oil from underneath this lake is enough for me to vote for someone else in the next election. It just scares me who to vote for. Why do the have get the oil from there, is there not enough other oil reserves? I am baffled. I guess when greed comes into the picture these politicians and oil companies are concerned with their fat lined pockets. I just hope that one day my kids can fish in this province.

[Bear Ballz]

Underneath the lake is suppose to be 1 of the biggest finds of bitumen? 8B$?
Funny thing about this situation is the 1/2 of the ppl on the lake is in the oilpatch and would jump on the project in a heartbeat[/QUOTE]

It's definately a catch 22, I hate to see another piece of Alberta destroyed but that crap under the lake keeps a roof over my families head as well. :sick:

[Smokey]

Well the oil patch my be responsible for the standard of living we possess, but there is more than enough oil out there in the oil sands to continue the standard of living we enjoy or could enjoy. Heck we can't get enough workers here for the projects that are planned, why continue with this breakneck pace of development. My last point is what kind of life are our kids going to enjoy in 40 years when are water is polluted and our air quality is compromised. Lets keep driving our jacked up 4x4's to the grocery store. (I am speaking personally)

[Bear Ballz]

I here yah Smokey, no matter how you look at it... it's still a kick in the nuts.

[Dr. Fish]

This whole seismic testing thing is unreal, were are the environmental groups, were are the enraged people of the area standing up for the environment. Why will no one in power do anything. Oh yeah because no one ****ing cares and its only a lake full of fresh water and fish. This whole oil boom really shows what our governments main concerns are, and its sure not our environment or well being, there all a bunch of oil *****s. Makes me want to head for greener feilds or puke.

[Penner]

My biggest worry is that if they actually go ahead with the oil facilities on Marie Lake it will set precedence and all other lakes in Alberta will be at risk. It will be like opening pandora's box. It makes me sick just thinking about it.

[steveo10]

New rumors are that the MLA is gettin paid off and Stalmach is backin off b/c it has to do with making AB rich. Remember they are just rumors that i keep hearing.

Ps i work in the oil patch and also drive my lifted truck to the grocrey and back

[Reeves1]

Heck we can't get enough workers here for the projects that are planned

I've been sending resume's up to northern AB since the mid 80s. Only had one call and they wanted me to stay in a camp for weeks at a time & it was at a very poor wage, for someone with my experience and age.
I have always been a very hard worker, like working 100+ hours/week.
Over 20 years on excavators alone. Grew up on/with my Dads const. co.

Yet I hear all the time about worker shortage & about how they bring in people from Timbucktoo.

Makes me scratch my head......

[y67]

Seismic is a pretty routine thing that's been done on hundreds of Lakes across Canada and the US... Food for thought.

[bearbait]

well i know for a fact that we are short handed in whitecourt...try up here...

are they planning on drilling right into the lake or will they diretional drill it??

the sismic acctivity sucks...
patch allows my lifestyle to be what it is and yes i do drive my lifted truck to the store..

[sjd]

Hey bearbait and all,

As a fisherman and proud treehugger, I guess I am one of the environmentalists that gives a damn about what is happening to our lands and waters - here is a copy of the opinion piece we wrote that ran in the Journal and Herald last week under the title - Marie Lake is the Tip of the Iceberg.

Sorry its long - its going to take a lot of Albertans to say enough is enough, we don't have to drill every square inch of Alberta - which unfortunately is the plan.

"The conflict between Marie Lake residents and the energy industry sent a chill down the spine of all Alberta landowners. Could we wake up one morning to find oil sands rights had been sold beneath our feet without our knowledge? Sustainable Resource Development Minister Ted Morton seems to have caught the chill as well.

The battle between Marie Lake cottage owners and the oil sands industry over the fate of their pristine recreational lake is the latest example of the land-use conflicts that inevitably result from the Alberta government's policy of allowing oil and gas development to trump all other voices. That policy is firmly entrenched in Alberta's decision-making processes for energy development. Marie Lake is not an isolated example. Imagine the surprise and anger of Albertans when they realize 54,000 square kilometres of Alberta - an area 12 times the size of Kananaskis Country - has been leased for intensive oil sands development without a hint of discussion as to whether this is in Albertans' best interest.

Minister Morton acknowledged last week that the Marie Lake battle is one conflict among many, and that the government's process for selling oil and gas leases is a big part of the problem. It is ground breaking for a senior minister to state publicly that the sale of mineral rights by Alberta Energy "without much discussion about whether the land is appropriate for development or not" is a recipe for conflict. These comments from the minister responsible for land use put him on a collision course with the Department of Energy which traditionally gets its way on all issues linked to energy development in this province.

Minister Morton appears to recognize the need for a new leasing process that applies the 'look before you leap' principle when considering the sale of oil and gas rights in environmentally-sensitive areas; and that includes meaningful input from Albertans who will be affected by the exploration and development of those lands. He has stated he expects recommendations to this effect to be part of the government's land-use framework which will begin to take shape later this autumn.

Reforming the oil and gas leasing process is a good place to start. Leasing decisions without consideration of the environmental implications of development and without notifying, let alone consulting with, affected land-owners and stakeholders is a policy choice. That choice fuels the 'full-throttle and damn the consequences' approach to oil and gas development that is pervasive in Alberta. It is producing conflict in the Marie Lake area and throughout our boreal forestlands, along the southern East Slopes, and elsewhere in the province. Albertans from all walks of life are starting to ask who are the winners and losers in this boom?

In its April 2007 publication, Haste Makes Waste: The Need for a New Oil Sands Tenure Regime, the Pembina Institute identified the impending collision between an out-of-control oil sands leasing process and Albertans' expectations for environmental protection. Focussing on oil sands development, it presented the necessary steps to update the old-fashioned and secretive way the Alberta government leases land. For changes to take place, and to provide certainty to the public and industry, Pembina recommended a temporary moratorium on new oil sands lease sales until the tenure process is reformed.

Then, prior to lifting the moratorium, Cabinet must ensure that land use planning is completed in the affected areas so it informs decisions to grant oil sands rights.

The report recommends conducting environmental assessments, the creation of a public registry to provide opportunities for public comment prior to granting oil sands rights, and implementing a transparent decision-making process based on whether oil sands exploration and development is in the public interest. These proposals should provide a standard for evaluating the land-use framework recommendations that Minister Morton will be releasing later this fall.

Minister Morton has acknowledged the process is badly broken. His next challenge will be to secure broad support from Cabinet and overcome what will likely be stiff resistance from well-entrenched and powerful interests within the Department of Energy and the oil and gas industry.

The outcome will ultimately depend on whether Premier Ed Stelmach and his Cabinet are prepared to make the significant changes required to avoid the battles, like Marie Lake and elsewhere, from turning into a province-wide war that will increasingly pit landowners and other stakeholders against the oil and gas industry. The Marie Lake conflict is clear evidence that a failure to act decisively may have significant political consequences for a government that is increasingly seen as representing the interests of corporations at the expense of the quality of life and concerns for environmental protection that matter most to Albertans."

Steve Kennett and Simon Dyer are senior policy analysts at the Pembina Institute, which provides policy research on energy and environmental issues. Haste Makes Waste: The Need for a New Oil Sands Tenure Regime is available at www.pembina.org.

[Walleyes]

I wonder when they are going to start to drill there,,, I need to get some work closer to home...

[y67]

Those cottagers dumping their rotten sewage cause more damage than seismic.

[Walleyes]

Yup... And the sea-doo's and the power boats and washings cars on shore and all the quads that are driven around in the surounding area tearing up the local trails and all the garbage that gets blown into the lake and the garbage that gets thrown into the lake and so on and so on...

But it's a lot easyer to point the finger at the big bad oil pacth than it is to walk you're talk I geuss..

[steveo10]

seismic activity has been stopped for now on Marie Lake

[50BMG]

seismic activity has been stopped for now on Marie Lake

Heard that on the radio this am and thought of this thread :)

[steveo10]

Thats the 1st thing that came to my mind as well... this is the place that i heard it 1st a few months back

[bearbait]

read in paper today that the project has been cancelled due to public concern...

good news...

sjd....i do care about the lakes and rivers of alberta as im a hard core fisherman...so do not think all in the patch dont care....most of us do..
rob

[Walleyes]

I think as outdoors people we all care about what happens to our surroundings... And as an outdoors man that works in the oil patch I definitely care what happens also.. But some of the point I was trying to get across is people can't sit there and build homes and cottages and every thing else that goes with it then sit there and point a finger at industry and say they will destroy our little jewel... Sorry but as far as I'm concerned that little jewel is all ready destroyed.... If it was to be preserved then move you're house and cottage and replace it back to nature...

Is it good that the project won't go ahead,,, sure,,, there are lots of other places to go so why disrupt the lake.. But I wonder how many people that are fighting this thing have ever been to Marie Lake ?? I have been,, worked around there quite a bit a few years ago... It's not like this place is in the middle of no where,, it sits in the middle of a very active area.. And they have been drilling and cutting line in that country for years... It is a very busy industrial area... So its not exactly like they were going to start drilling in Banff Park or anything.. It would of been just another of the hundreds of leases that already exist in the area...

[Penner]

y67 & walleyes looks like the two of you are just trying to get a rise out of someone! :huh:

Grow-up and get educated! It’s guys like you that give sportsmen a bad rap.

[FiveO]

Walleyes; give your head a shake. Please tell us you kidding?

[sjd]

Well I'm pleased that Stelmach saw the light and cancelled the seismic. The media is playing this as a good news story, but they missed the big picture - Albertans are now going to be on the hook for compensating OSUM to buy-back a lease that should never have been sold in the first place.

Walleyes does have a point - we all have impacts in the bush, be it too many cabins, too much oil and gas, or too much ATV use - its called cumulative effects, and Alberta's environment, and the quality of hunting and fishing are declining as a result.

What's the solution. Its not that oil and gas, or the folks that work for the patch, or those landowners don't care about the environment, but there need to be limits, and sometimes we need to say 'no' - Alberta doesn't need to liquidate its natural resources just to get oil of the ground to feed Americans. Everyone needs a job, sure, but why do we need to import 200,000 jobs just to make things busier, and wreck the environment quicker?

Credit to an organized group of landowners standing up for what they believe in - but this is not a isolated, or even a "lake" issue. Why are we punching roads into the roadless Blackstone/Wapiabi, why are we trying to build wind turbines on some of the last native prairie near the Cypress Hills or wiping out caribou in the Little Smoky, or mining 20km of the Muskeg River bed in Fort McMurray? Its because there is no plan for what Alberta is supposed to look like in 50 years, and the Government is asleep at the switch. OSUM ran into some well organized resistance. There's lots of places, where there is no-one to speak for the outdoors, except sportsmen, and I don't even see much of that. I encourage everyone to do that, rather than sniping at each others motives.

[Walleyes]

sjd,, very well put and I agree with you 100%....

Fiveo tell you I'm kidding about what ??? what is it about what I said that you don't understand...

penner you get better educated my friend,,, I live, work and play in the north east,, I hunt and fish in many of the area's being affected by development and by that I mean "all" development not just the oil development.. I see housing, farming and logging or what ever kind of development as all disruptive to the wild lands in this province... And that was the point I was trying to get across.. People and I mean all of us have to take responsibility for what is happening in this province,,, don't just sit back and point the finger at the biggest target...

But that's all rite boys go through life thinking that you don't leave a print and that it is every body else's fault for what happens... Thats exactly what this world needs more of... The David Sazukis to fly to the environmental protests in their helicopters....

[Penner]

I wonder when they are going to start to drill there,,, I need to get some work closer to home...

I enjoy a good discussion but your dumbar$e-redneck comments are not really needed.:confused:

I've also played up in the northeast and still do. I practically lived up there as a kid during many of the summer months an I know the area like the back of my hand. Thus is why I have fought hard against this project from day one and I’ll fight hard against any other oil, gas, logging, or any other industrial type project that plans to set foot in or around the Lakeland area.

I do not dispute that recreational use has it environmental impacts however to 1:1,000,00 the scale the environmental impacts an industrial project can have. The majority of recreational users and or landowners care 100x more about there environmental impacts than any industrial company would. After all its Alberta’s land and I feel it shall be enjoyed by Albertan’s for many years to come not to be exploited by industrial projects whom are mainly based outside of Canada who’s only interest is how much money can they make and how fast. Rush in quickly and rush out even quicker. They do not have to live with the impact or mistakes they make. I DO.

Remember the industrial companies only lease the land they do not OWN it.

[FiveO]

Well said Penner. Walleye is always trying to pick a fight dont let him get to yah.

[Walleyes]

Fiveo once again you missed the whole point of my posts,, they were not to pick a fight but to help enlighten,, but you being so open minded missed it again...

I've also played up in the northeast and still do. I practically lived up there as a kid during many of the summer months an I know the area like the back of my hand. Thus is why I have fought hard against this project from day one and I’ll fight hard against any other oil, gas, logging, or any other industrial type project that plans to set foot in or around the Lakeland area

penner do those of us that now live and in my case have always lived and are now raising families in the lakeland area a favour,,, don't do us any favours... We are not against industry in the area... We are against needless industry in certain area's.. Was the Marie Lake need less maybe so,, I'm truly happy for the home owners that they won... But my point was that lies and scare tactics should not be used to persuade the public.. We as gun owners should know better..

Will they extract the oil from under that lake ??? guaranteed... They will wait till this fat little spoiled boy of a province gets hungry and listens to objective views and common sense... Hey you can't look at more food when you're belly is full !!!!!

[SNAPFisher]

I don't know walleyes, you don't sound very sincere in saying that the project at Marie Lake was needless. This is not a shot, just asking - Do you truly believe that it was/is needless?

[Walleyes]

Yes it was needless,, because at this point and time there are other places to obtain the resources...
But what I am against is using lies and misinformation to get results... Believe me I love the north and have as much passion for it as any man alive... Do you not think I care what happens ??? do yous not see my pictures ??? where I live,,, how I live.. I spend practically every day that I am not at work out playing in the Lakeland area... My family has lived in the area since 1951,,, we have worked and played there for going on 4 generations now... Yes I care,,, but I care with an open mind and I listen to all points of view...
Yes I work in the oil patch,, but why does that make me bad,, just because I get payed a healthy paycheck ??? hey we are raising families in that area and we need more industry to keep our kids at home... Maybe my boys won't have to leave their wife and kids for 150 - 200 days out of the year,, maybe they will be able to work closer to home... I have worked in the patch going on 25 years now,, I sit in a fairly good position and I think have a pretty good idea what goes on,, and I just get fed up with the lies and bullsh$t that is flung out there.. I get sick and tired of the names...
Who do people think owns these oil companies and run them ??? you know who ??? we all do... Any body that has a mutual fund any body that has a G.I.C. anybody that has money in a savings account in this province even any of you that are in any union own an oil company and fuel its desires and greed.. Because we all expect our funds to give us a decent return on our money and the hottest investments right now are resource developments.. So just about all our investment companies invest the majority of our money in these area's.. So when they invest you're money they demand a decent return for you,, and as such it fuels the oil companies to expand so their stocks will rise so you can get you're money for when you retire on you're union pension you can enjoy life... So shame on you.. You are destroying the environment,, You are the greedy oil company....

[SNAPFisher]

And with that logic, so are you in the same "baot" - no pun intended - as the rest of us.

Do you really believe that people like penner and myself would just consider oil companies as the only cause? I mean really. We are all intelligent people here. So spare us the lectures on what polluters we are and that everyone is to blame. We all share a hand in that, we get it.

That fact is that people banded together to make a difference for what you even term as a "needless" project. So we are in agreement here.

I am thankful that those cottage owners were even there to make a difference. I am sure that they had maybe the biggest impact of us all. Great! I am happy how it turned out! Maybe there will be a project one day that will make sense and can be supported. I do agree that not all can be needless.

[Walleyes]

If in anywhere in my post you didn't think I put the blame on myself as well well I'm sorry I guess you missed it... And you missed the point of the posts all together... The point was,, again I'll explain it,, if I was speaking to you I would talk slow so you could understand... The point was,, is that lies and scare tactics and misinformation should not be used to obtain what we want... Again we as outdoors people if any should be aware of these types of tactics,, the antis use them against us every day... And by this I mean they used non educated miss guided info as to the destruction seismic activity would have on the lake,, second they tried to portray Marie Lake as some divine little out of the way pristine untouched body of water,, which it is not.. Like I said before there has been drilling activity in this area for many years,, its the reason all those people are there...
Now the people didn't want the plant there because they don't want the eye sore of a plant on the shores of their lake and with out a doubt some environmental impact.. And all the extra traffic that comes with it and the noise.. So good,, those are all very good reasons.. But again don't fill the public with lies... Don't portray them selves as the stewards of the land and the oil company as the evil wolf,,, sorry that is what turns my gut... Because again if they cared about that lake as much as they say,, if they wanted to keep that lake untouched and pristine they would not be there them selves... We have many lakes in the Lakeland area that we are fighting to keep from being exploited and opened up,, but these lakes are out of the way untouched lakes... We need those area's to be left alone,, to be preserved as they are... And I hope that truth and logic will be used to keep them that way not lies and finger pointing...

Now this probably won't sink in to some of you because no matter what I say some look at my posts negatively and don't read them for what they are.. I guess if I was a yes man like most and didn't try and open some closed minds once and a while,, if I didn't speak my mind and went along through life like an aimless sheep like most I would fit in.. But that's not my style,, I say what has to be said and I don't hold back because it might offend some people.. So sorry if the truth doesn't fit in but that's life...

[SNAPFisher]

Great, thanks for the repeat lesson that you are trying to get accross. I get it. I'm sure everyone else here does too.

Back to all I was posting about. If it is a needless project, as you have said yourself, please don't go on and on and on and on and on ....about misinformation and other junk. It was needless project, it is stopped for now.

If you want people to read your posts for what they are, quit insulting people within them.

[Huntar69]

Yes it was needless,, because at this point and time there are other places to obtain the resources...
But what I am against is using lies and misinformation to get results... Believe me I love the north and have as much passion for it as any man alive... Do you not think I care what happens ??? do yous not see my pictures ??? where I live,,, how I live.. I spend practically every day that I am not at work out playing in the Lakeland area... My family has lived in the area since 1951,,, we have worked and played there for going on 4 generations now... Yes I care,,, but I care with an open mind and I listen to all points of view...
Yes I work in the oil patch,, but why does that make me bad,, just because I get payed a healthy paycheck ??? hey we are raising families in that area and we need more industry to keep our kids at home... Maybe my boys won't have to leave their wife and kids for 150 - 200 days out of the year,, maybe they will be able to work closer to home... I have worked in the patch going on 25 years now,, I sit in a fairly good position and I think have a pretty good idea what goes on,, and I just get fed up with the lies and bullsh$t that is flung out there.. I get sick and tired of the names...
Who do people think owns these oil companies and run them ??? you know who ??? we all do... Any body that has a mutual fund any body that has a G.I.C. anybody that has money in a savings account in this province even any of you that are in any union own an oil company and fuel its desires and greed.. Because we all expect our funds to give us a decent return on our money and the hottest investments right now are resource developments.. So just about all our investment companies invest the majority of our money in these area's.. So when they invest you're money they demand a decent return for you,, and as such it fuels the oil companies to expand so their stocks will rise so you can get you're money for when you retire on you're union pension you can enjoy life... So shame on you.. You are destroying the environment,, You are the greedy oil company....

with you 100%!!!! nicely put walleye....... environment is heaven on earth but industry is a must if like it or not you are using it. Never say no just make them do it smarter cleaner better. yes save the places we love but if you want to make a real differance go to China because thats scary...that my piece, /(*&^% if you dont like it. lol

[ctd]

I have to agree with Walleyes opinion. I lived in Cold Lake for 2 years and fished at Marie lake more then a few times. His writting is very well done, and very straight forward.
How many of you live in the area? How many of you own Cabins on the lake?
how many of you quad, hike, horseback ride 4x4 or other activitie in the area?
How many of you have joined a local group who not only uses the trail system in the area but also maintains them?
How often do you watch what you do to the enviroment around you, pick up garbage that isnt yours. ]

The fact that the Goveremnt sold the rights to a company that had every intention of using them,. Now they have been shorth changed so to speak.

[Chung66]

The only reason that this is an issue is that the project was proposed for a lake with cabins on it. Simple as that.
How can I say this? Siesmic has been shot on and around water as long as oil exploration has been around. No one has said a peep about the other programs.

Not wanting to disturb the waters (no pun intended) but calling it as I see it.

As a side note: EUB regulations prohibit new oil wells from being built on or near water (not within 100m)

[dodger]

I agree with Walleyes and appreciate a well informed comment. The part that makes me worry the most is that Stelmach undermined the legal process that the oil company went threw. By over ruling the EUB he has shown disregard for the people that make these decisions. So where does he stop now? Do we go direct to him now for all decision's since all aspects of government are irrelevant now. Maybe we can tell him the biologists are just fools and that we can now have a 20 Walleye limit on all lakes. Imagine the money saved as we shut down large parts of government and Eddy can make these simple decisions. He can sit at some restaurant table and we get in line for a face to face with him. He can just give us a simple yes or no and that's final.

my $0.02 worth.

Remember to leave it better than you found it.

Dodger.

[Penner]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but know the facts before you make false statements. :confused:

For everyone’s information this project never made it to the EUB. The EUB had no involvement with this decision as their role in approving or disapproving of a project does not happen until an application is in place to potentially build the oil & gas facilities. The Seismic testing, lease purchase, etc. needs to get approved by the Alberta government before it ever gets close to the EUB . Stelmach over ruled his own ministries as there were simply to many unknowns to possibly allow this project to continue without having those unknowns solved. Hold back the troops until your 100% certain. That’s what a good leader should do.

Walleyes, I suggest for you to do a little research on Seismic testing before you make such a bold statement. Our findings (and we have many of them) some of which are from sustainable resource development itself show that past studies on 3D Seismic testing on fresh water lakes can be extremely harmful and even deadly to all types of aquatic life. There has never been any Seismic testing on Alberta lakes to the magnitude or scale that was planned to take place on Marie Lake. I can guarantee you that there are no “scare tactics” or “misinformation” involved with the fight to save Marie Lake. It goes beyond protecting the environment it’s also about maintaining a quality of life for Albertan’s.

In case folks are unaware, the company behind this Marie Lake project OSUM Corp. also bought the oil leases under and around Moore Lake (Crane Lake). They were in the process of applying for Seismic testing on that Lake as well. There was also an application being filed to perform Seismic testing on Frog Lake. What you are seeing is the beginning of an all out free-for-all in the Lakeland Area. From Wolf Lake right thru to Cold Lake. If you are not concerned about this being outdoorsmen of Alberta you need to give your head a shake??? If you want to see the before and after effects, take a drive around Marie Lake, then take a drive north of La Corey or around Bourque Lake. See if you are able to gain any hunting access anywhere near these processing facilities. The oil & gas companies will rape the land and rule it with an iron fist. You or I have no say.

It will be a mighty cold day before anyone can convince me to side with the any oil & gas companies. The environment as far as the oil & gas companies are concerned is at the bottom of the list. No doubt our government policies may allow these companies to get away with murder but those policies have been in place well before Eddy ever came into power. Don’t get me wrong I’m not sold on Stelmach either but it takes some pretty big “cahuna’s” to stand up and say no to the oil & gas companies and black suits in Calgary. After much public pressure he stood up for what Albertan’s wanted. In my opinion that’s a positive thing. Eddy did say they will begin to review many government policies regarding these types of issues. Let’s just hope that they do.

[Walleyes]

The oil & gas companies will rape the land and rule it with an iron fist. You or I have no say.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The environment as far as the oil & gas companies are concerned is at the bottom of the list. No doubt our government policies may allow these companies to get away with murder

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boy its not hard to pic out the Civil Servant, N.D.P. unionist is it.... : :rolleye2: :rolleye2:

[Penner]

Boy its not hard to pic out the Civil Servant, N.D.P. unionist is it.... : :rolleye2: :rolleye2:



Walleyes, your level of maturity and intelligence really shines with comments like that. It would appear the only opinions that count are your own and or any of those who agree with you.

I guess you’re free to speculate on anything you wish, I’m only trying to provide folks whom truly care about this issue and who want to try and maintain some sort of quality of life in Alberta with facts about an issue I know a fair amount about and have been involved with for over a year now.

For your information I am an avid outdoorsmen, I actually work in the oil & gas industry, I’m not very thrilled of socialist groups (NDP), and as for unionist I guess they have their agenda and I have mine both of which are neither here or there.

Crack open a beer and relax dude. :lol:

[SNAPFisher]

This is probably one of the more interesting threads I have read in a while.

Penner, that was always my concern that there have been and will be other lakes in NB1 targeted for such projects. I hope the majority of them never come to pass, the needless ones, and I will do my part in learning about them before leaping. Thanks for the info and continue to post it.

Walleyes has some good points about perception and understanding. Pionts well taken. I don't agree with his view that Marie Lake being less pristine somehow makes it less of an impact....so does that mean that lakes like Pigeon Lake, the impact is even less? Cabins or not, outdoorsmen pollution or not, I don't see a major difference between effecting a lake like Marie or a more remote one like May Lake or Spencer Lake, etc. Maybe this is not what you were you were insinuating from your earlier post but it left me with that impression.

If Marie Lake becomes a wake up call for involvement from others, I would rather shake their hand and welcome them to the club than complain about how they got there.

[Walleyes]

Very well put snap,, I am with you on the fact we have to keep an eye on our big industries and make sure we hold them responsible for there actions.. But at the same time we do have to allow them to grow.. There is a difference between keeping and eye on them and being anti big business..

Penner,,, I'm not sure about you... You say you're an avid outdoorsman but there was something that bugged me about you're posts.. So I went back and checked out all posts by you (a handy feature on this site) and all you're posts other than 4, 1 on somebody else's fish and 1 on mercury in water and a couple on a fish finder all you're posts have been on Marie Lake,, or about bashing big buisness and oil companies and goverments.. There is a difference between someone who go's outside and what I, and most on here consider an outdoorsman... Many activist and antis spend many days in the outdoors... Boys I think we may have to really watch what we say I believe we have an anti on our hands.... I could be wrong but penner,, don't expect any more feed back on anything from me...

[Penner]

Walleyes, I'm not all that certain to what you’re trying to get at within your last post.

For the record I'm not bashing big business or oil & gas companies at all. I'm bashing (if you wish to call it that) that fact that we need to halt any further oil & gas work in the province until we complete the projects already in progress. There is a massive labour shortage in Alberta and I personally do not want to import foreign workers outside of Canada to take jobs away from Canadian's. Starting more projects right now will only make it worse.

I'm also bashing the fact that we have limited fish bearing lakes in Alberta and only a handful with the water quality that Marie has. Current government policies do not protect our Lakes what so ever and it allows oil & gas companies to set foot where ever they please. Current environmental polices are a joke which again allow oil & gas companies to get away with things that harm the environment and put the general public at risk. We cannot continue to allow this to happen. Reform is needed to ensure that all Albertan’s have a say of where and when these projects should take place. We must maintain existing recreational area’s especially around water bodies so that we will be able to freely enjoy those areas for recreational purposes for years to come.

To date Imperial oil has Maskwa Mahihkan, and Leming with Nabiye coming on board in the next few years which will undoubtedly disrupt and change the May Lake and surrounding area. Ecana has foster creek and they are planning to double the project over the next 5-10 years granted most of this is within the air weapons range. Encana is also construction phase 1 of their Christna Lake project with plans for two more phases which will carry construction up to 2015. You have Husky Tucker Lake which will be around operating for an expected 35 years. You have the Devon project up near Conklin/Christna Lake. You have CNRL up at Christna/Kirby Lake who are going to expand that project over the next 15 years. There is WhiteSands In-Situ up near Christna Lake. All of the CNRL/Encana/Imperial facilities in and around Wolf Lake. Who knows how many smaller operations I’ve missed, not to mention the countless pipelines, pumping stations, co-gen’s, powerlines, source and disposal water well sites throughout the entire area. All everyone needs are two new processing facilities plus the supporting pipelines, pumping stations, co-gen’s, powerlines, source and disposal water well sites facilities in around Moore and Marie Lake.

Walleye’s as above and according to your comments you say we must allow industry to grow??? I can’t understand your logic and makes me say, I'm not sure about you???:confused:

Please understand I’m not trying to pick a fight with you but I’m simply only disagreeing with you and pointing out some facts that you may have overlooked. Your opinion and feedback along with everyone else’s is what makes the debate and this message board and others like it enjoyable.

BTW, I only post on discussions that interest me. Most of the posts as of late have not interested me a whole bunch but I do read most of them, and I may just not reply to all of them. I also have not been out fishing a whole bunch this year so I don’t have much to ask or to report. I’m not really certain how that is relevant in this discussion.