Obed Lake -- It's done !

[McLeod]

Obed lake one of the few trophy Brown trout lakes in Alberta will not be stocked anymore. The victim of illegal perch plantings !

[timsesink]

man, if I caughty one of those guys who are perching, lets just say they might end up with some down their throat.

[Skinner]

Obed lake one of the few trophy Brown trout lakes in Alberta will not be stocked anymore. The victim of illegal perch plantings !

Where did you find this out?

[McLeod]

Where did you find this out?

Call your local Bio , George S ..In Edson... He will give you the info.
If this ticks you off make sure you tell him. Maybe we need to do a petition.

[Slannesh]

Oh FFS.

this bucket biologist crap is really starting to get to me. We have dozens of pike/perch lakes around... why can't they leave the trout lakes the hell alone?

[Fishfinder]

Sry to hear. Never heard of the lake but what a bummer indeed! It amazes me too that this continues to happen to trout lakes.These morons that are dropping tiny perch into trout lakes, I can't help but think either they have never caught/fought a trout or just generally suck bigtime at fishn. Why anyone would rather catch teenie weenie perch all day as oppossed to a few fun fighting trout is beyond me?
What a shame:(

[I-Love-Eyes]

Same thing happened to Hasse lake as most of you probably read in the AO magazine.
Not only was there perch, but also Northern pike. What a shame that we are losing the stocked trout ponds/lakes to these idiots.

[Fishfinder]

Yes, I am waiting for some smarty to ruin a few trout lakes around here. Thank goodness it has not happened...yet. I gotta say though, I have been impressed with FnW thus far this year. Almost every time I have been out to a public lake so far this yr, I have seen them out and about checking lures and what not. Good on em. Would love to hear of them catchin' one of these perch humpers in the act of redepositing!!!

[crazyfish]

Man that sucks ! That lake is almost legendary for big browns ! The mental midgets really need to quit this chit !:mad3::mad2::mad3:

[NBFK]

There has been perch in that lake for a long time. I remeber seeing them in the mid 90s when I was a kid and seeing pictures of my dad catching them on a fly in the early 90s. There were big perch then and not that many. Also I noticed perch magically appeared in edith lake a couple years ago. Seems like a popular trend.

[jrs]

I'm very disappointed to hear that. I do wonder if this goes beyond the perch issue to the general idea of no more non-native species stocking in that area though. Too bad.

[lambski]

:mad2:Its not almost legendary it is legendary, check out provincial records for browns in alberta. I can remember catching perch there twenty or so years ago and I still catch perch there to this day, and the big browns have been around the entire time. I dont understand the reasoning behind this if its true, there is no way that there isnt enough feed in that lake to sustain the fish that are in there, if you have been there in late June you know what I mean. Low oxygen levels maybe, but that happens everywhere to a degree. Something fishy going on here. Maybe it is another brainwave idea like Miskuki, there worried about the browns making it to the river and messing with the genetics of native trout, in my mind the damage is done. Oh and lets not forget about triploids which if im not mistaken were introduced last year and would be of no concern to Albertas naitive trout if in fact they did make it to the river, sometings fish here. Jasper, now that is a whole nother can of worms, just think of all the lost oportunities because certain people think the fish shouldnt be there, if the lake is landlocked and can sustain a heathy trout population why not. Im gonna get into politics thats it:evilgrin:

[lambski]

:innocent:oh ya I almost forgot George, this has nothing to to with illegal perch tranplants, come on man:huh:

[McLeod]

:innocent:oh ya I almost forgot George, this has nothing to to with illegal perch tranplants, come on man:huh:

Lambski , George is the person is the one who decides to stop the stocking of Browns in Obed..

[SNAPFisher]

:mad2:Its not almost legendary it is legendary, check out provincial records for browns in alberta. I can remember catching perch there twenty or so years ago and I still catch perch there to this day, and the big browns have been around the entire time. I dont understand the reasoning behind this if its true, there is no way that there isnt enough feed in that lake to sustain the fish that are in there, if you have been there in late June you know what I mean. Low oxygen levels maybe, but that happens everywhere to a degree. Something fishy going on here. Maybe it is another brainwave idea like Miskuki, there worried about the browns making it to the river and messing with the genetics of native trout, in my mind the damage is done. Oh and lets not forget about triploids which if im not mistaken were introduced last year and would be of no concern to Albertas naitive trout if in fact they did make it to the river, sometings fish here. Jasper, now that is a whole nother can of worms, just think of all the lost oportunities because certain people think the fish shouldnt be there, if the lake is landlocked and can sustain a heathy trout population why not. Im gonna get into politics thats it:evilgrin:


Lamski, one of the best to the point posts I've seen in a while. I'm no expert on Obed. Fished it only twice and just last Friday was one of them. Didn't get a sniff but I also got blown off very early in the day - freakin winds!!!!
Anyways, as far as I've known about that lake it has had perch and I agree with your comments. That lake seems to maintain a certain "harmony" regardless of perch. I can't be compared to say a lake like Hasse which truly has been destroyed from where it was. Not the case at Obed.

[DuckBrat]

Seeing this and being a visitor to Obed a couple of times a year I just called George in Edson on this Issue. Just so you are all informed Browns will be stocked one more time into Obed lake. The stocking will occur in a month's time. This will probably be the last time it is done for more reasons than just the perch issue. Someone damaged the weir on the far side of the lake which has brought water levels down a few feet. Now on most lakes that type of change would not be detrimental to fish populations but on obed it has dropped winter Oxygen levels to near 1. A number of 4 is detrimental for Salmonids (trout Spp.) and 1 is actually having an affect on the Perch in Obed. There are some big perch survivng near the in coming creeks in winter but that is all. Unfortunately it seems that because of the structure of the lake and the absence of utilities nearby that aeration will be too expensive. So unless someone fixes the weir on the farside of the lake to bring it back up the three feet, it seems that this fishery will be done. Can't fault SRD for making this decision as stocking browns in Obed is a costly practice and if they won't winter whats the point. Money would be better spent on fixing some of the other great fisheries in the area, and this is from a guy who loves fishing Obed.

[McLeod]

Seeing this and being a visitor to Obed a couple of times a year I just called George in Edson on this Issue. Just so you are all informed Browns will be stocked one more time into Obed lake. The stocking will occur in a month's time. This will probably be the last time it is done for more reasons than just the perch issue. Someone damaged the weir on the far side of the lake which has brought water levels down a few feet. Now on most lakes that type of change would not be detrimental to fish populations but on obed it has dropped winter Oxygen levels to near 1. A number of 4 is detrimental for Salmonids (trout Spp.) and 1 is actually having an affect on the Perch in Obed. There are some big perch survivng near the in coming creeks in winter but that is all. Unfortunately it seems that because of the structure of the lake and the absence of utilities nearby that aeration will be too expensive. So unless someone fixes the weir on the farside of the lake to bring it back up the three feet, it seems that this fishery will be done. Can't fault SRD for making this decision as stocking browns in Obed is a costly practice and if they won't winter whats the point. Money would be better spent on fixing some of the other great fisheries in the area, and this is from a guy who loves fishing Obed.


Then may be a TU project of ACA project to rebuild the weir. I never noticed any problems but I will look his weekend.
When you say money would be better spent on fixing some of the other great fisheries in the area , what do you mean by this and some examples ?
It is a good fishery that should be fixed if possible.

[Drewski Canuck]

If the Oxygen is that low, and the water level can be lowered by removing the weir, take the weir out temporarily, and hopefully, a hard winter will reset things. THEN fix the weir. Used to catch brookies at Obed in the 80's. Then lots of rainbows. It is a hard lake to fish due to the "canyon", but it is super fertile because of the flats. Fish grow fast. Never saw perch in the 80's, so something got in from somewhere. I do understand that there was a virus in the lake at one point, which was sourced as coming off of the muskeg creek. Don't know if it was true, or whether it was having any real impact on the fish. All the same, rehab has to start somewhere. There are plenty of trout fishermen in Alberta, and not alot of trout lakes. By not stocking, the few trout lakes that are left will see even more fishing pressure.

Drewski

[DuckBrat]

When you say money would be better spent on fixing some of the other great fisheries in the area , what do you mean by this and some examples ?


There is a lot of good work going on with Bull trout in the Gregg River, they are hurting from over abundance of brookies. Even better is the initiative with the Athabasca rainbows trying to create a brood stock well to conserve the genetics. The Grayling in the Mcleod are suffering and need a lot of work/$$ to conserve them. There are issues with selenium runoff in all the headwaters adjacent to the coal mines south of Hinton which is affecting spawning success of the fish mentioned above. All are native species that fish very well when populations are healthy. Direct the fund to help Native species recover before wasting $$ on exotics. I.e. Browns and Brookies.

[lambski]

:pDuckBrat, by weir do you mean a couple rocks wrapped in some wire fence? How would you know what is surviving unless you dropped some gill nets? Its funny how I have never seen a perch at an inlet or outlet and not to mention the big perch would die first because they need more oxygen to live. The water level seems pretty normal to me, I think you need to get your facts straight.;)

[DuckBrat]

:pDuckBrat, by weir do you mean a couple rocks wrapped in some wire fence? How would you know what is surviving unless you dropped some gill nets? Its funny how I have never seen a perch at an inlet or outlet and not to mention the big perch would die first because they need more oxygen to live. The water level seems pretty normal to me, I think you need to get your facts straight.;)


I can just picture you know keeping a steady vigil at the inlet creeks looking for mystery perch.
Just so you know in my conversation this morning I was forwarded the info on the test nets that were dropped last year. Lot's of Suckers (a fish that can tolerate low oxygen), a few big perch, and stock of the year browns. If you are not convinced by my words the results can be obtained from the Edson SRD office. While your at it you can ask for the data on water levels in the Lake over the past 10 years. Everything I said came from the ongoing data results produced by the hard working technicians and biologists. Just thought I would ask some questions to shed some light on the issue but I can see you know all already.

[McLeod]

There is a lot of good work going on with Bull trout in the Gregg River, they are hurting from over abundance of brookies. Even better is the initiative with the Athabasca rainbows trying to create a brood stock well to conserve the genetics. The Grayling in the Mcleod are suffering and need a lot of work/$$ to conserve them. There are issues with selenium runoff in all the headwaters adjacent to the coal mines south of Hinton which is affecting spawning success of the fish mentioned above. All are native species that fish very well when populations are healthy. Direct the fund to help Native species recover before wasting $$ on exotics. I.e. Browns and Brookies.

The above projects are worthy but don't think for a second that not planting Browns in Obed would mean money for other projects. Projects come out of ACA. The Browns would go elsewhere probably in the South.
While you might think eliminating exotics is good biology it is not good not good social policy.
And no matter what the test showed the lake did produce some LARGE Browns last year and likely will again this year.

[lambski]

:sick:Yep, BIG perch and Big browns last year. Browns are pretty smart DuckBrat maybe they put the breaks on before the gill nets. Oh yeah besides the 14 inch perch there was loads in the 6 to 9 inch range. Have you ever fished here before?:sick:

[SNAPFisher]

Guys, maybe Duckbrat made up the info so that he could keep Obed to himself. Selfish bastard!!! :innocent:

Duckbrat, I've only been there twice in a couple of years and the water levels seem exactly the same. Fish finder shows the same depth to my memory. Unless it is has been in decline for years and years prior, and, Lambski and Mcleod have been smokin the same wacky stuff to have a shared hallucination about large brown fish :wave:

[DuckBrat]

Big browns are smart indeed and I wouldn't doubt for a minute if there are still some of them in there. I too will miss fishing for them but I understand that this decision was made for solid reasons backed up by good data and financial logic. As for the social aspect mentioned previously, that would be debatable based on the demographic polled. It seems the mandate of fisheries today is to get away from stocking exotics in any water where there may be a possibility of escape and migration. I don't think this applies at Obed due to shallowness the next lake down the outlet but not a bad policy considering the damage that has been done from historic stocking of non native rainbows, and brookies, and to a lesser extent browns.

Finally if I were going to choose between the year to year visual water height observations of visitors to the lake or measured volume data of the researcher, I think I will go with the latter. I am not sure but one might argue that the bathometry of Obed lake (thinking about the deep channel/and extent of shallow flats) might make it difficult to judge water levels with just a visual check. Why would SRD technicians lie about dropping water levels? Last time I checked the AB region was experiencing less rain and snowfall on a historic annual level. Lakes in Ab have all taken a hit even in the Hinton/Edson area. Why would you think Obed wouldn't as well?

[McLeod]

All exotics are now triploids so it's not an issue in regards to stocking.
Rather than give up on the lake ..why not look for possible solutions to the issue ? If it's the outlet then it can be fixed. Aerators can looked at ..If it's the watertable then hard to say. But if you lose one lake then you will never get it back.



Big browns are smart indeed and I wouldn't doubt for a minute if there are still some of them in there. I too will miss fishing for them but I understand that this decision was made for solid reasons backed up by good data and financial logic. As for the social aspect mentioned previously, that would be debatable based on the demographic polled. It seems the mandate of fisheries today is to get away from stocking exotics in any water where there may be a possibility of escape and migration. I don't think this applies at Obed due to shallowness the next lake down the outlet but not a bad policy considering the damage that has been done from historic stocking of non native rainbows, and brookies, and to a lesser extent browns.

Finally if I were going to choose between the year to year visual water height observations of visitors to the lake or measured volume data of the researcher, I think I will go with the latter. I am not sure but one might argue that the bathometry of Obed lake (thinking about the deep channel/and extent of shallow flats) might make it difficult to judge water levels with just a visual check. Why would SRD technicians lie about dropping water levels? Last time I checked the AB region was experiencing less rain and snowfall on a historic annual level. Lakes in Ab have all taken a hit even in the Hinton/Edson area. Why would you think Obed wouldn't as well?

[DuckBrat]

All exotics are now triploids so it's not an issue in regards to stocking.
Rather than give up on the lake ..why not look for possible solutions to the issue ? If it's the outlet then it can be fixed. Aerators can looked at ..If it's the watertable then hard to say. But if you lose one lake then you will never get it back.


No triploid browns in Alberta. As for Triploid Brookies look online at the recent work done with them. Where once thought to be 90% sterile they are finding the numbers are closer to 40% and 50% success on sterilization. Even a percentage of the Rainbows are not completely sterile. Not so reassuring.

I would support fixing the damaged weir but as for aerating obed it would be a logistical nightmare. The deep channel is where you would have to place the output and that spot is a long way from shore. The pipe out to that spot would have to be very long leaving it susceptible to damge. Next I don't beleive there are any utilities close to the lake so getting power to run the pump is out of the question. I haven't seen mechanical (wind driven aerators) used in this type of application in quite some time but it would take a number of these units to get enough Oxygen into the lake.

[LacLaBicheNS]

Just a little info.. It is my understanding (from course work I took in feild biology) that fish get introduced to other lakes through birds. FIsh lay eggs, birds get them on their feet and fly to another lake. Sounds like a million to one shot, but it happens, especially if the birds are feeding on the fish eggs and the fish spawn in shallow water.

Not sure if this is how the perch are getting into certian lakes, but its a possiblitly.

[McLeod]

No triploid browns in Alberta. As for Triploid Brookies look online at the recent work done with them. Where once thought to be 90% sterile they are finding the numbers are closer to 40% and 50% success on sterilization. Even a percentage of the Rainbows are not completely sterile. Not so reassuring.

I would support fixing the damaged weir but as for aerating obed it would be a logistical nightmare. The deep channel is where you would have to place the output and that spot is a long way from shore. The pipe out to that spot would have to be very long leaving it susceptible to damge. Next I don't beleive there are any utilities close to the lake so getting power to run the pump is out of the question. I haven't seen mechanical (wind driven aerators) used in this type of application in quite some time but it would take a number of these units to get enough Oxygen into the lake.

The Browns in Obed the last two years are TRIPLOIDS.. check the stocking lists..

[lambski]

DuckBrat, I think that your knowledge of this lake is minimal. You cant always believe what you hear. When you look at the stocking report that little three means triploid, you know like as in triple. Maybe I need to take you there and show you how to catch them so your a little more aware of whats really going on.:wave:

[DuckBrat]

It seems I may have been wrong on the Brown triploids in Alberta but I a have a question before I totally eat my words on that one subject? What is the difference between 3N and 3NTP designation in the Genotype column of the stocking report. I was informed that 3NTP was the designation for true triploids.

As for you offer Lambskin I would call you on your bluff if I thought you might come through. If your serious however I will be in the area heavy over the next three weeks training for an upcoming competition and would look forward to learning from the self-proclaimed Obed Jedi.