Towing "Shudder" any suggestions?

[75ft Arborist]

Ok, when i tow a 14ft aluminum Lund with 9.9 motor, i get "steering wheel shudder!" This happens with both trucks that i own both 1/2 and 1/4 ton. My dad says that he does not feel it on his 3/4ton. I use a 2inch drop hitch while he uses a straight hitch. I have towed tent trailers, quad trailers, and other boats, and never had this problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[lannie]

Pull in the anchor !!

[Lambo]

Pull in the anchor !!

good one! LOL!

But seriously...If you had a bigger boat, it might be a weight distribution issue. Sometimes when a load is too far behind the trailer tires, it causes the trailer to sway (personal experience). In your case, I don't think a 14 aluminum and small outboard would cause that unless your trailer is grossly undersized to carry your boat or if your boat is really hanging behind the trailer tires.

So this leads me to think maybe it's a bent axle or rim(s), or defective or badly out of balanced tire(s). Trailer tires typically are not required to be balanced (not sure why) except maybe because a little vibration is acceptable because the towing vehicle does not feel it. Hope this helps, keep us informed when you find out the problem.

[KyleM]

My trailer does the same thing with my 14 foot aluminum.
I think it has a minor bend in the axle but it only does it over 100km.

[jeprli]

Put some weight in front of your boat so it evens out with the weight of your motor, this helped to solve same issues i had with my trailer. Or maybe tires on that trailer are pooched?!

[pikester]

Ok, when i tow a 14ft aluminum Lund with 9.9 motor, i get "steering wheel shudder!" This happens with both trucks that i own both 1/2 and 1/4 ton. My dad says that he does not feel it on his 3/4ton. I use a 2inch drop hitch while he uses a straight hitch. I have towed tent trailers, quad trailers, and other boats, and never had this problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?

The guess of a bent axle or rim/ bad tires might be accurate but before tearing your trailer apart I suggest a highly unscientific test. Get a buddy with a totally different truck/ hitch setup to drag your rig around for a mile or two & see if you end up with the same result or not. If he gets the same thing happening then you know for sure it's a trailer issue. If not then it is something else right?

[sourdough doug]

It could be that your trailer wants to fly due to the hull shape , lightening the weight and skipping the tires...

[CeeZee]

The guess of a bent axle or rim/ bad tires might be accurate but before tearing your trailer apart I suggest a highly unscientific test. Get a buddy with a totally different truck/ hitch setup to drag your rig around for a mile or two & see if you end up with the same result or not. If he gets the same thing happening then you know for sure it's a trailer issue. If not then it is something else right?
if this is done o would suggest it be another 1/2 ton or less, as the vibration may not be felt in the heavier ones.

[jusfloatin]

The chances of it being a bent axel on a 14" alumnum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.

The heavier the truck the less trailer shutter would be felt.

Trailer shutter can only be cause by two things:

1- improper tounge weight (10% of GVW is recomended)
2- bad tire (split belt) Easy check is jack one side up at a time, spin tire look down the tread line is it straight?


Trailer tires unless you are running 14" or bigger are Bias tires which are not balance or are they recomended to be run over 100km's.
It is written on every tire.

[nicemustang]

Change your bearings in trailer.

[Jayball]

Had a similar problem and i had a 12 alum boat with 9.9 motor. I took the motor off and put it in back of truck. I figured I might have had too much weight bouncing on transom (even though everything was tied down).

Motor off, no problem.

[ishootbambi]

The chances of it being a bent axel on a 14" alumnum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.

.


not true at all. every bump and pothole you hit drives a rearward force on the tires and WILL bend an axle over time. it will change an alignment angle call "toe".

[BeerSlayer1]

The chances of it being a bent axel on a 14" alumnum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.


I've seen some bad things happen on poor boat launches. Trailer wheels dropped off the back edge of a launch and then springs broken etc when the driver tried to pull the trailer forward.

Also tongues bent when the driver jackknifes the trailer.

I'd put the chances higher than none to zero.

[EdwardsZX]

A bent Axle won't cause a shudder, abnormal tire wear yes, shudder no. Unless its bent bad enough to where the trailer is "hopping". Bent rim or a separated tire, or worn out or incorrectly setup wheel bearings will cause a shudder.

[jusfloatin]

I've seen some bad things happen on poor boat launches. Trailer wheels dropped off the back edge of a launch and then springs broken etc when the driver tried to pull the trailer forward.

Also tongues bent when the driver jackknifes the trailer.

I'd put the chances higher than none to zero.

In any of the incidents you saw was there a bent axel involved?

not true at all. every bump and pothole you hit drives a rearward force on the tires and WILL bend an axle over time. it will change an alignment angle call "toe".

The is a 14'boat and trailer with a GVW of maybe 500lbs, maybe 525lbs if he drinks beer.
You cannot hit enough potholes to bend an axel maybe pull it out of alinement but not bend an axel.

[Paul C]

Ok, when i tow a 14ft aluminum Lund with 9.9 motor, i get "steering wheel shudder!" This happens with both trucks that i own both 1/2 and 1/4 ton. My dad says that he does not feel it on his 3/4ton. I use a 2inch drop hitch while he uses a straight hitch. I have towed tent trailers, quad trailers, and other boats, and never had this problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?
The question that I have, is the axle and the hitch equally spaced like a triangle with equal sides. This will also cause higher wear rate on you tires.

[Tunstall]

In any of the incidents you saw was there a bent axel involved?

The is a 14'boat and trailer with a GVW of maybe 500lbs, maybe 525lbs if he drinks beer.
You cannot hit enough potholes to bend an axel maybe pull it out of alinement but not bend an axel.

I get the feeling you haven't been around trailers much. They bend all the time, and it doesn't take much to do it. Any trailer axle can bend, and the light running gear on these trailers is every bit as or more likely to bend than any other trailer axle. I've seen all kinds of bent trailer axles out there, it's a common problem. Usually it just causes really bad and uneven tire wear, particularly on the inside edges. Like someone else said, it would have to be really bad for that to be the problem.

I'd guess bearings, tires/wheels out of balance or damaged, and then the boat bouncing on the trailer at speed due to wind buffeting.

[jusfloatin]

[QUOTE=Tunstall;599266]I get the feeling you haven't been around trailers much. They bend all the time, and it doesn't take much to do it. Any trailer axle can bend, and the light running gear on these trailers is every bit as or more likely to bend than any other trailer axle. I've seen all kinds of bent trailer axles out there, it's a common problem.QUOTE]

Your feeling would be wrong.

Here's a couple pictures of a 23' pontoon trailer I am working on at the moment.
Sorry not trying to hijack the thread but I wanted to show I have some experience.

[ishootbambi]

In any of the incidents you saw was there a bent axel involved?



The is a 14'boat and trailer with a GVW of maybe 500lbs, maybe 525lbs if he drinks beer.
You cannot hit enough potholes to bend an axel maybe pull it out of alinement but not bend an axel.

i believe you have experience in pulling a trailer, but i will question your knowledge of trailers and exactly what the geometry of them means. what exactly do you think an alignment is on a trailer? the bend of the axle IS the alignment. it is how it is adjusted and EVERY trailer will have an axle bend/alignement angle to contend with. how i know is that was my job for 11 years. i would estimate i aligned/bent 40 plus per year for over 400. so il say it again, an axle will bend from hitting potholes and that does make it out of alignment. and like edward said, it would have to be out of whack an unreal amount to cause the problem asked about.

[jusfloatin]

i believe you have experience in pulling a trailer, but i will question your knowledge of trailers and exactly what the geometry of them means. what exactly do you think an alignment is on a trailer? the bend of the axle IS the alignment. it is how it is adjusted and EVERY trailer will have an axle bend/alignement angle to contend with. how i know is that was my job for 11 years. i would estimate i aligned/bent 40 plus per year for over 400. so il say it again, an axle will bend from hitting potholes and that does make it out of alignment. and like edward said, it would have to be out of whack an unreal amount to cause the problem asked about.

I read your post over and over but not sure what you are talking about.
Are you trying to configure this about the factory bend which make it a underslung over an overslung axel.

Just what are you doing to these " bent axels "

Are you undoing the u-bolts removing the axel to straighten then reinstall the axel?
Or
Are you loosening the ubolts and realigning the axel?

Where on the axel are they bent?

[plinker]

Tempted to say that you have a bearing going. It might be hanging up at times. Although you might have enough bearing grease in there, the bearing itself temporarily seizes, partially creating a momentary drag. The drag is transferred energy wise to the steering in the vehicle as a shudder. If you can inspect the bearings, look for flat spots, blueing of the bearings (bearings showing a blue colour indicate a high heat transfer, meaning failure) pieces of the bearing housing missing, flattened, or showing obvious or unusual signs of wear. Bearings are cheap, usually an easy fix, and the first step in tracing an issue such as yours.
After that, I would go with tire failure. Look for unusual wear, if they are a radial tire, look closely for belt seperation.
The way I found my problem was to find a deserted road, sit in my boat on the trailer, over the wheels, while my wife towed us down a paved road slowly, and I could hear the sound of grinding coming from the bearings. I live in the country, so finding a paved deserted road was not an issue. If you use this method, be forwarned that the RCMP or local police may frown on this tactic. lol

[hustler]

All i can say is check your tires...... Jack it up even and just roll them real hard, Look and listen...... its a good chance its in there.
First run this year with mine, launched the boat and heard a crunching on one side of the trailer...... turnes out it was a cracked rim under 2 lugs...... swapped it out for the spare and low and beholed pull the boat out and i got a flat on the spare....... fun part of the hobby for sure......
Im changing both tires and repacking the bearings now just incase..... Better safe than sorry and honestly its not that expensive either

[ishootbambi]

underslung/overslung refers to where the axle mounts in relation to the springs. it makes no difference to aligment angles. pretty well every axle is supposed to have an arc that is high in the center. that is because gravity will sag the axle causing the wheels to lean in at the top over time.....even an empty trailer that weighs nothing will eventually sag. heavy ones obviously sag faster. this affects the camber angle of the wheel....which is part of the wheel alignment. same thing as i said pulling a trailer. evert bump hit puts a rearward force on the wheel driving it back and affecting the toe angle...another part of wheel alignment. higher speeds and heavier trailers do it faster. of course axle size and strength is also a factor. when an axle gets an alignment, bending is how you do it. it must be done in the trailer to get an accurate measure of all angles including the centerline, which means that the wheels are pointing straight ahead in the direction of the tongue. dont take the axle out and dont loosen the u-bolts or you get a false read. for that matter i was pretty particular about it and measured the ball of the tow vehicle so i could replicate a driving situation and have everything exact when i was done. where they were bent differed on every axle. if one wheel hit more bumps and holes it may require a bend to fix it off to one side. tandems are more complicated yet as the 2 axles need to be in unison. all the alignment angle can be perfect in tune, but if the axles arent working in the same direction it is not right. makin sense yet?:wave:

[jusfloatin]

underslung/overslung refers to where the axle mounts in relation to the springs. it makes no difference to aligment angles. pretty well every axle is supposed to have an arc that is high in the center. that is because gravity will sag the axle causing the wheels to lean in at the top over time.....even an empty trailer that weighs nothing will eventually sag. heavy ones obviously sag faster. this affects the camber angle of the wheel....which is part of the wheel alignment. same thing as i said pulling a trailer. evert bump hit puts a rearward force on the wheel driving it back and affecting the toe angle...another part of wheel alignment. higher speeds and heavier trailers do it faster. of course axle size and strength is also a factor. when an axle gets an alignment, bending is how you do it. it must be done in the trailer to get an accurate measure of all angles including the centerline, which means that the wheels are pointing straight ahead in the direction of the tongue. dont take the axle out and dont loosen the u-bolts or you get a false read. for that matter i was pretty particular about it and measured the ball of the tow vehicle so i could replicate a driving situation and have everything exact when i was done. where they were bent differed on every axle. if one wheel hit more bumps and holes it may require a bend to fix it off to one side. tandems are more complicated yet as the 2 axles need to be in unison. all the alignment angle can be perfect in tune, but if the axles arent working in the same direction it is not right. makin sense yet?:wave:

I totaly understand how to set up a trailer and I totaly understand when I am getting smoke blow up my rear.

Just how are you bending these axels while there still mounted and not loosened.

Who do you work for?

[BeerSlayer1]

Justfloatin, I don't mean to insult you but if you are such an expert on axles how come you can't even spell the word?

Justcurious.

[jusfloatin]

Justfloatin, I don't mean to insult you but if you are such an expert on axles how come you can't even spell the word?

Justcurious.

You are totally right my error in spelling of the word axle does bring credence that I do not know enough to comment on axels.

My apology for waisting your time.

[Lambo]

Interesting thread...I'm learning a lot - not sure if it's right or wrong though, who needs to go to school when you have forums like this. :bad_boys_20:

All i can say is check your tires...... Jack it up even and just roll them real hard, Look and listen...... its a good chance its in there.
First run this year with mine, launched the boat and heard a crunching on one side of the trailer...... turnes out it was a cracked rim under 2 lugs...... swapped it out for the spare and low and beholed pull the boat out and i got a flat on the spare....... fun part of the hobby for sure......
Im changing both tires and repacking the bearings now just incase..... Better safe than sorry and honestly its not that expensive either

I had a problem with my trailer tire on my last outing. We're just about to leave the lake and I noticed the tread on one of my trailer tire was totally shredded - no problem, I've got a spare. Went to take the bad tire off and two of the lug nuts were seized. I ended up breaking both studs clean off. :angry3: Luckily I still had 3 studs left to hold the tire on. We drove home carefully praying the remaining studs would hold. Make sense that the lug nuts would seize though - they're are constantly getting dipped in water. So a little piece of advice - remove your lug nuts periodically and put anti-seize compound on the threads. I haven't yet but will this week.

[Sooner]

Is it possible that you dont have enough tounge weight. My buddy shortened his sled trailer tounge so he could fit it in his garage and it towed awful after that. All the weight was now at the back. He had to put all his gas cans up frt and it got better. Just a thought.

[ishootbambi]

I totaly understand how to set up a trailer and I totaly understand when I am getting smoke blow up my rear.

Just how are you bending these axels while there still mounted and not loosened.

Who do you work for?

the fact that you just asked that question tells me clearly that you dont understand the hows and whys. im pretty sure posting a business name would violate forum rules, so i will just say that it was medicine hats oldest and largest specialty shop dealing in suspensions and alignments. i was the truck and trailer guy in that shop....mostly because the other guys didnt want to do them. i can say with a pretty good degree of certainty that during my time there i likely did approximately 75% of the truck lifts in this city as well as about 50% of the trailer suspension work in this city. not blowin smoke dude...just telling you what i did. if you really need a business name itll have to be in pm.

as for the last question....the axle must be aligned in the trailer for the reasons i kinda stated in my last post. the axle must be in the position it will be in driving down the road. thats why i also took the time to place the tongue at the height of the ball on the tow vehicle. sure you can guess and be sorta close, but is close good enough for you? when i worked on my customer's vehicles i tried to treat them as if it were my own. if i wouldnt be satisfied with something, why would i ask a customer to be when he just paid me money to do it correctly? we had a frame straightening rack that i did the trailers on. it was over a pit so i could walk around the unit as well as get under it. if the bend required was a "straight up" push for camber only, then i would chain it to the rack and just use a bottle jack in the right location to get the proper camber. thats pretty rare though as the toe angle is usually out as well. to get a push up and back at the same time, chains are wrapped around the axle going to the outside of the leafs. we had a chain connector that was a specialty item used for frame straightening. that connector not only joined the chains, it was also the platform for mounting a port-o-power to bend the axle. thats a little hard to explain without a picture, but the mechanics reading this will know what i am talking about. the port-o-power pushed from the chain rigging to the axle giving you the bend at the right place and the right angle. frame guages can help find the centerline in all this procedure to ensure the trailer follows the tow vehicle perfectly in line.

now does it make sense? if not, then i better back up. you do know what im talking about when i say camber, toe, and centerline right? if you arent getting my description of the chain rigging, i may have to try drawing a picture as im not gonna crawl under my trailer and chain it up to prove a point.

oh and arborist...as for your initial question...pretty well everything suggested so far is a possibility. thats a tough one to fix without driving it and seeing for myself. id start with jacking it up and spinning tires just by hand. put a hand as near the wheel as you can on the axle. you will often hear and/or feel a bad bearing. look for a wobble in the tire and tread. often you can see a serparation, but there are plenty of tire problems internally that you cannot see. a poorly balanced load can cause grief, but thats a little more rare. there are a lot of possibilities here. good luck.

[jusfloatin]

As for the forum policy I don't believe that would be a problem since the forum doesn't have any conflicts with a suspension shop.

It is obvious you have as you say work at a frame shop for a while and it is obvious that you have straighten truck and trailer frames and even aligned some trailers axles.

I just go back to my original statement;

The chances of it being a bent axle on a 14' aluminum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.

Just how many of these 14' boat trailer axles have you bent back because of potholes?

[ishootbambi]

I just go back to my original statement;

The chances of it being a bent axle on a 14' aluminum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.

Just how many of these 14' boat trailer axles have you bent back because of potholes?

a few dozen. the light little trailer axles for those type of boats are usually made from very light tubing. most of them dont even require the use of the hydraulic jacks to band them back.....i would just hit them with a big mallet. ANY trailer regardless of type or its travels can have an axle bend and therefore be out of alignment. utility trailers and boats generally last longest in the alignment department due to least amount of use. holiday trailers are next, and the shortest time between alignment for trailer axles are horse trailers. they typically see the roughest roads and trails. i will go back to my statement and say that alignment/bent axle is the least likely cause of arborists problem.

forum policy is no free advertising...ill pm you the name of the business.

[Kim473]

Check the rims and tires. Have 50 to 100 lbs tounge wieght and have someone follow behind you in another car to see which tire has a wable or can see something funny going on. Dont over think this people. Might be a belt separated on one of the tires from sitting for long periods. Check tires and rims. you can even take them in to a tire shop and have them spin them on there tire machine and see for about 20 bucks.

[Tunstall]

I just go back to my original statement;

The chances of it being a bent axle on a 14' aluminum boat trailer is none to zero. There is not enough weight on the trailer reguardless of what type of terrian it goes over.

Just how many of these 14' boat trailer axles have you bent back because of potholes?

LOL. Whatever man. don't let the facts get in the way, just keep repeating yourself over and over, because that's how you prove your right. :rolleye2:

It's likely not the problem here, but it's way more common than people think.

[75ft Arborist]

Well jacked up the trailer and spun the wheels! "As per the suggestions" One side was good, the other side was almost oval. Seems the rim was bent, the thing spun like an egg! Thanks to all the input!!!! Haven't tried towing it yet, but put on a new tire and rim, and will check it out this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed :sHa_shakeshout:

[Kim473]

Great! Always look for the simple things first.

[ishootbambi]

if you hit something hard enough to bend a wheel, the axle may be as well. keep an eye on the tires. after the first trip or 2 , run your hand parallel with the tread one way on the tire, then back the opposite way. if it feels more rough (feathered) one way than the other, the alignment is out. glad you found your problem.

[Kim473]

if you hit something hard enough to bend a wheel, the axle may be as well. keep an eye on the tires. after the first trip or 2 , run your hand parallel with the tread one way on the tire, then back the opposite way. if it feels more rough (feathered) one way than the other, the alignment is out. glad you found your problem.

Good tip. Thanks