Upland birds and this rain

[scarey]

I would imagine that this rain will effect the upland hatch all across southern alberta. :sign0176: It looked quite promissing early in the year. What about the Brooks and Milk River areas? Anyone have an opinion:test:

[ishootbambi]

i reckon you have a legit concern. hopefully they are tougher than we think.

[TheClash]

i reckon you have a legit concern. hopefully they are tougher than we think.

tough or not they had better have scuba gear. i think upland is sunk this year

[ksteed17]

i hope at the very least that they take away the 2 weeks that they extended the season into november last year.

[Pixel Shooter]

was just thinking the same thing, fingers and toes crossed chicks are hatched

[Amy]

i hope at the very least that they take away the 2 weeks that they extended the season into november last year.

I agree that wasn't a very popular move with a lot of hunters but I wonder how much of a difference it really makes with all of the other pressures on Pheasants.Habitat,other pray etc.........
Don't want to sidetrack the thread.Back to the Weather:)

[Reeves1]

Boggles the mind why "you folk" don't get together and raise a half million (or more) for release. Not really that hard to do.....No, I have no interest in doing so. I don't hunt them & have no interest in any release in AB.

It's just reading this sort of topic each year, it seems the next logical step....

[ishootbambi]

Boggles the mind why "you folk" don't get together and raise a half million (or more) for release. Not really that hard to do.....No, I have no interest in doing so. I don't hunt them & have no interest in any release in AB.

It's just reading this sort of topic each year, it seems the next logical step....

the cost of a half million birds is what boggles the mind. id love to see it, but i dont know where the cash would come from. id like to see 10 times that go into habitat as well.

[Amy]

Boggles the mind why "you folk" don't get together and raise a half million (or more) for release. Not really that hard to do.....No, I have no interest in doing so. I don't hunt them & have no interest in any release in AB.

It's just reading this sort of topic each year, it seems the next logical step....

If we could get back the extra fee we pay each year on our licence for the goverment release that would make sense.But to pay the fee and then release birds?It's like paying someone to build you a house then building it yourself.

[ksteed17]

I agree that wasn't a very popular move with a lot of hunters but I wonder how much of a difference it really makes with all of the other pressures on Pheasants.Habitat,other pray etc.........
Don't want to sidetrack the thread.Back to the Weather:)

im not sure what the overall difference would be, but for myself i know i shot most of my birds in those 2 weeks, just because of the weather it seemed like they were out and about more. And this year with the crazy hard spring i would easily give up the opportunity to give the population a little hand up.

[crawfy]

im not sure what the overall difference would be, but for myself i know i shot most of my birds in those 2 weeks, just because of the weather it seemed like they were out and about more. And this year with the crazy hard spring i would easily give up the opportunity to give the population a little hand up.

I have to agree with you never have liked those last 2 weeks as it really hurts the birds around the south, lots more hunters also with deer season open then too. We have lots of upland birds around the house here and by now i usually see lots of chicks but that is not the case this year. The roosters are still crowing and have even began fighting again for the ladies attention. I think she'll be another year without a upland bird licence to here in Alberta, but not South Dakota. :)

[vantheman]

Last year sucked, this year will probably be even worse... What a disappointment.

[TheClash]

Boggles the mind why "you folk" don't get together and raise a half million (or more) for release. Not really that hard to do.....No, I have no interest in doing so. I don't hunt them & have no interest in any release in AB.

It's just reading this sort of topic each year, it seems the next logical step....

i mentioned in another thread that i would be willing to pay my usual fees for this year and not hunt if the money i payed was then used to help fund a release. i know others have told me they would be willing to do so as well. this may be where we can rais some funds for this.

[Take Em!]

Since I know everyone on this site has a computer I implore eveyone who cares about pheasants to go to the pheasant forever website and educated themselves!!! http://www.pheasantsforever.org/ If you want to shoot released birds, just go buy them at Wessex and do it. If you care about the pheasant population, get involved in habitat rehabilitation.

[Pudelpointer]

I agree Take Em,

Releasing birds is expensive and never ending, AND it masks the true problem - lack of suitable habitat.

Hunters go out, shoot a 1/2 dozen birds or more a season, 98% released birds and then think the pheasant population is in good shape. How does South Dakota have millions (3-5 million depending on year) of birds? How can they harvest 1.7 million birds (2009) a year?

One word - Habitat.

Here is a well thought out blurb:
"Habitat is vital to increasing and sustaining high pheasant populations and ensuring the continued success of South Dakota pheasant hunting. High pheasant losses in winter, about 65% to 75%, could be lessened if more food and shelter were available. As in other pheasant hunting states, more intensive farming methods have caused the pheasant population to decline. There is now less grain on the ground for food, and chemicals have also taken a toll. Pesticides kill insects needed by the young birds, the weeds and brushy cover the pheasants require have been eliminated, and nitrate fertilizers can poison the birds. Unfortunately, when the pheasant population dips, and so does South Dakota pheasant hunting, with serious consequences for the state economy."

Throwing money into the garbage (called pheasant release) is a disgusting waste. I know the argument; "it helps keep the pressure off the wild birds," hooey. Anyone who has hunted wild pheasants knows that there is no real comparison between the two. The guys who drive around release sites in their vehicles shooting birds off the road are highly unlikely to make even the slightest dent in wild bird populations.

As for the extra two weeks, the impact has been proven to be minimal (granted this was in other jurisdictions) especially if there is adequate habitat and cover. IIRC, South Dakota's season runs from mid October till December 31'st. In other areas the season runs even longer. If only cocks are taken, the impact on the following year's huntable population is negligible.

Now having said that, when you till, cut, mow, spray, fertilize, and drain every square inch of the landscape (or at least try your best to do so), and experience cold wet weather during hatching, the added pressure of hunting the population may (I repeat may) have some impact on the following year's population.

If I had my tinfoil hat on I may say something about the Pheasant Release Program being used to placate hunters, making them indifferent to effects of the land policies that our governments have imposed. But that would be crazy talk....



ETA.

My father was born here but moved away as a small child. However, he returned to hunt for a few years in his early 20's. He had not been back to hunt for some 40 years when he first visited after I moved here. We hunted some of the same general areas he had 40 years before, and he was amazed at how much the landscape had changed. He said that every little ditch and canal was overgrown with willows and weeds, every field had a ditch or fence row that was tall grass and brush, and there were cattail marshes "everywhere".

Not now.

[Okotokian]

Boggles the mind why "you folk" don't get together and raise a half million (or more) for release. Not really that hard to do.....No, I have no interest in doing so. I don't hunt them & have no interest in any release in AB.



Not hard to do... so you have experience successfully doing this?

As an aside, on the "glass half full" front, might all this moisture help the waterfowl situation? I could forego my huns if there are lots of mallards around! :)

[ishootbambi]

pudel...you say:
If I had my tinfoil hat on I may say something about the Pheasant Release Program being used to placate hunters, making them indifferent to effects of the land policies that our governments have imposed. But that would be crazy talk....


and of course you are correct. given the state of things however, without the release program, alberta basically would have no pheasant season. habitat talk is very nice, but the reality of trying to find funding for it is not as easy as just saying the words "lets improve pheasant habitat". i certainly dont have the answer. to compare the dakotas to alberta is also not really a fair comparison. you realize that paid hunting is a way of life there, and paying hunters are what makes the difference. if providing habitat was more profitable than growing grain, that is what farmers would do. i know how i feel about paid hunting though, so ill keep scratching my head to come up with something better.

[Amy]

Since I know everyone on this site has a computer I implore eveyone who cares about pheasants to go to the pheasant forever website and educated themselves!!! http://www.pheasantsforever.org/ If you want to shoot released birds, just go buy them at Wessex and do it. If you care about the pheasant population, get involved in habitat rehabilitation.

We used to go to the Pheasant forever deal every year in Calgary.$100.00 a couple and me and my wife probably dropped another $250.00 on all of the stuff going on. Auction,bucket draws etc.....

Then they started raising the prices per couple.Soon enough $100.00 would not cover 1 person.When I inquired about all the price increases they told me due to corporate sponsership they were sold out and the prices reflect the market.A lot of the guys attending didn't even hunt but it was a free night for a **** up.

I lost any respect I had for them

[blackpheasant]

I would imagine that this rain will effect the upland hatch all across southern alberta. :sign0176: It looked quite promissing early in the year. What about the Brooks and Milk River areas? Anyone have an opinion:test:

I think the wild Pheasants will be fine, they will have lots of 2nd and even 3rd hatches this year...all this rain will make for some really nice habitat, the upcoming pheasant season will be a real dandy for wild birds if you know where to look...

[greylynx]

To add to Blackpheasant.

All those nice juicy insects to feed the yearlings that will be appearing on your doorstep soon. especially with some hot weather.

[crawfy]

To add to Blackpheasant.

All those nice juicy insects to feed the yearlings that will be appearing on your doorstep soon. especially with some hot weather.

To add to both you and blackpheasant lots of bugs agreed are good and 2nd and 3rd hatches not so good as they have lost most of the 1st and 2nd hatches and if they push thier hatches to late into the fall some of them may not make it thru the winter as thier feather plumage may not be developed enough for harsh conditions.

One other note i think some habitat in the form of sourghum and corn grown and then left all winter in some areas could be created at resonable cost and would provide good cover and food for the birds. I am hoping to try and plant some of this stuff next year around the place to see, as this year the weather has not cooperated with me so well.

[puphood1]

To add to both you and blackpheasant lots of bugs agreed are good and 2nd and 3rd hatches not so good as they have lost most of the 1st and 2nd hatches and if they push thier hatches to late into the fall some of them may not make it thru the winter as thier feather plumage may not be developed enough for harsh conditions.

One other note i think some habitat in the form of sourghum and corn grown and then left all winter in some areas could be created at resonable cost and would provide good cover and food for the birds. I am hoping to try and plant some of this stuff next year around the place to see, as this year the weather has not cooperated with me so well.

Large blocks of corn/sorghun can and does work as winter feed and shelter. My hayfield if up to the 3rd. strand of wire on the fence and yesterday when I was out in it I kicked out a few pheasants. I leave this 40 acres up as late winter and fall cover and seems to work except in the most severe weather. Also it makes for pheasants great nesting cover. As a note 2nd-3rd hatches are not nearly as big a clutches as first hatches do to fertility of the eggs.....puphood1

[wwbirds]

Used it as ground cover for several years with varying degrees of success. In really hot years with lots of moisture the sorghum was 7 feet tall and structurally probably stronger than corn stalks. Made for great fall and even winter cover until the snow finally knocked it down.
Seems it likes high humidity and heat so it is very good in southern ontario where I believe they use it as a sileage crop. In dry conditions here a few years could hardly get it to germinate and growth was really hampered by lack of moisture. Still you can get lucky some years and have an incredibly thick ground cover. Sorghum seed is incredibly cheap compared to most "grass" seed. Well worth the minor investment in a few selected areas adjacent to feed and water to give them a little more protection.
Rob

[crawfy]

Used it as ground cover for several years with varying degrees of success. In really hot years with lots of moisture the sorghum was 7 feet tall and structurally probably stronger than corn stalks. Made for great fall and even winter cover until the snow finally knocked it down.
Seems it likes high humidity and heat so it is very good in southern ontario where I believe they use it as a sileage crop. In dry conditions here a few years could hardly get it to germinate and growth was really hampered by lack of moisture. Still you can get lucky some years and have an incredibly thick ground cover. Sorghum seed is incredibly cheap compared to most "grass" seed. Well worth the minor investment in a few selected areas adjacent to feed and water to give them a little more protection.
Rob

Seen some around the Taber area and lots in South Dakota last year it will grow good in Alberta it just does not get 7 feet tall but will grow 3-4 feet around these parts, and as you said seed is cheep.

[Take Em!]

We used to go to the Pheasant forever deal every year in Calgary.$100.00 a couple and me and my wife probably dropped another $250.00 on all of the stuff going on. Auction,bucket draws etc.....

Then they started raising the prices per couple.Soon enough $100.00 would not cover 1 person.When I inquired about all the price increases they told me due to corporate sponsership they were sold out and the prices reflect the market.A lot of the guys attending didn't even hunt but it was a free night for a **** up.

I lost any respect I had for them

Fair enough.. I have gone for probably the last 5 years and I couldn't agree more with you.. it is quit the hoity toity affair with a lot of corporate money in the room (generally being flaunted around during the live auction). That being said, if PF Calgary takes that money and uses it properly on habitat development I don't really care who it comes from. Now, saying that, I would like to know where people on this forum think that money should be spent? I personally believe that PF Calgary should be buying up area, a 1/4 section at a time and doing habitat rehabs for all public hunting oppurtunity. I don't like the idea of allowing individual farmers/landowners the oppurtunity to do a rehab project on there own personal land because there is no check and balance system to guarantee that they are going to allow people to hunt there. Why should I donate money to PF so that some landowner down in Brooks gets to create funded habitat that he and his buddies are going to use but I am not allowed to access? Any other ideas or opinions on what PF Calgary should use the money for would be appreciated. You never know what might come of it :).

[TheClash]

just a couple of things:

saw 6 roosters and at least double that in hens today in the pot hole creek coulee just outside of magrath (thompson's)..that was nice to see. the roosters looked large and healthy....as did the hens....i have not seen any chicks yet, although i am not too sure if i have ever seen pheasant chicks out and about.


secondly...with all the discussion about releases etc....just wondering if you guys think it is a good idea, or if it is allowed...for regular joes to purchase pheasant chicks, raise them for a bit and then release them on land that has limited access and great natural habitat? does this help/hinder the populations? does it do nothing??...is it illegal? a few friends and i have talked about it.....considered planting feed plots and cover etc. for these birds as well....just to try and "give back" to the pheasant population each year. or is there a better way our time and money can be used. granted there is a selfish reason as well..the limited access is...well...us...haha...so in theory we would be stocking our own pond so to say.

[Take Em!]

just a couple of things:

saw 6 roosters and at least double that in hens today in the pot hole creek coulee just outside of magrath (thompson's)..that was nice to see. the roosters looked large and healthy....as did the hens....i have not seen any chicks yet, although i am not too sure if i have ever seen pheasant chicks out and about.


secondly...with all the discussion about releases etc....just wondering if you guys think it is a good idea, or if it is allowed...for regular joes to purchase pheasant chicks, raise them for a bit and then release them on land that has limited access and great natural habitat? does this help/hinder the populations? does it do nothing??...is it illegal? a few friends and i have talked about it.....considered planting feed plots and cover etc. for these birds as well....just to try and "give back" to the pheasant population each year. or is there a better way our time and money can be used. granted there is a selfish reason as well..the limited access is...well...us...haha...so in theory we would be stocking our own pond so to say.

From PF Website

Pheasant Stocking
Stocking with pen-raised pheasants will not effectively increase wild pheasant populations. When habitat conditions improve, wild pheasant populations will increase in response to that habitat. Only by addressing the root problem suppressing populations –habitat - will you have a long term positive impact on pheasant numbers. Habitat is the key to healthy pheasant populations.

Studies have shown that stocked pheasants, no matter when they are released, have great difficulty maintaining self-sustaining populations. Predators take the main toll, accounting for 90 percent of the deaths and at the same time predators become conditioned to the idea that pheasants are an easy target. Pen-raised birds do provide shooting opportunities, a good way to introduce new hunters to hunting in a controlled situation and a chance to keep your dog in shape. Release birds as close to the time you want to hunt as possible, just keep in mind that these pen-raised birds are not going to produce a wild self-sustaining population in the area.

[TheClash]

From PF Website

Pheasant Stocking
Stocking with pen-raised pheasants will not effectively increase wild pheasant populations. When habitat conditions improve, wild pheasant populations will increase in response to that habitat. Only by addressing the root problem suppressing populations –habitat - will you have a long term positive impact on pheasant numbers. Habitat is the key to healthy pheasant populations.

Studies have shown that stocked pheasants, no matter when they are released, have great difficulty maintaining self-sustaining populations. Predators take the main toll, accounting for 90 percent of the deaths and at the same time predators become conditioned to the idea that pheasants are an easy target. Pen-raised birds do provide shooting opportunities, a good way to introduce new hunters to hunting in a controlled situation and a chance to keep your dog in shape. Release birds as close to the time you want to hunt as possible, just keep in mind that these pen-raised birds are not going to produce a wild self-sustaining population in the area.

great info take em. ......so better than the birds would be improving the habitat...to make it more suitable for larger populations.

[Take Em!]

great info take em. ......so better than the birds would be improving the habitat...to make it more suitable for larger populations.

Technically yes, don't get me wrong, pheasant release hunts are still a lot of fun and if you are just out for a fun afternoon with the guys/girls it is a blast. Just don't expect any long term positive effect to the population in the area.. released birds apparently just don't survive and breed according to the experts.

[TheClash]

cool. ya the hunts are fun, but we are looking to find something that might help the populations get better...

we'll use the pen birds for dog training i guess.

[crawfy]

Technically yes, don't get me wrong, pheasant release hunts are still a lot of fun and if you are just out for a fun afternoon with the guys/girls it is a blast. Just don't expect any long term positive effect to the population in the area.. released birds apparently just don't survive and breed according to the experts.

I think now that they are releasing hens in the spring this will help populations due to the fact that they may have some chicks and so on and so, but when they use to release them in the fall it did not do much. In some way they are doubling the release program if a majority of the released hens have chicks and then they release roosters in the fall. Now we just need to do something about the habitat.

[Pudelpointer]

Crawfy, they discontinued the hen release this year. From research in other areas it is unlikely that the hen release did much to increase populations. As is typical, they rushed to release those hens without anyone ready to evaluate the success or failure of it. At best, 1 in 10 hens successfully nested (chances are it was closer to 1 in 100) and the only good it may have done is to keep the predators full for a few weeks; however, there are negative issues associated with that as well.

In the end, if we want decent pheasant hunting in AB we need 2 things, good habitat and favorable weather, and the first goes a long way to mitigating issues with the second.

[TheClash]

so PP if we have some access to land out here that we would like to make more favorable...it is typical southern alberta ridge/coulee/grass land near fields etc...what would you suggest?

[wwbirds]

I went down to renew my lease on some land north of here a few years ago and the landowner who is well known for being a bit of a non hunter greeted me saying "before you started that business we hadn't seen pheasants in this country for 20 years and now they are on every fence line".
I have seen groups of as many as 20 picking grain in stubble fields when hunting coyotes in the winter on a very cold day. A few make it if they have food water and cover.
Rob

[ishootbambi]

although quite unscientific, after checking up with landowners where i was involved in pheasant releases over the past few years, the answer is the same unanimously....there are more birds!

[Pudelpointer]

I am sure there are some places they make it (like areas where guys pound the coyote and fox population every chance they get). But thanks to some PPP, there was almost no scientific evaluation of the program.

There was a small experiment set up with telemetry transmitters on (IIRC) 10-12 released hens that were released with 90 others. I think within 1 month not a single one was alive.

It may be that in areas with minimal precipitation, and again, good habitat, they can survive. Other areas like SD have all but discontinued any release of birds because of the very poor survival rates observed.

It would be great if SRD/ACA would cough up the appropriate funding to do the groundwork and follow-up to see if this is viable here.

[wwbirds]

Hey PP I have seen these pen raised birds run circles around good hunting dogs from time to time in cattails and drainage ditches so I don't think coyotes take a very large part of the population but foxes and great horned owls are brutal on them. Seems like once they get acclimatized (30-60 days) they turn pretty wild and the coyotes are not stealthy enough to grab them
Rob