PDA

View Full Version : Interesting read on hunting


IR_mike
07-11-2010, 12:40 PM
I did not really know how to title this, but some of the recent threads (Cougar on draw, Sow and cub poaching, Coyote hunting ethics) along with some of the responses got me thinking of a article I read about 10 years ago.

Unfortunatly in regards to the above threads we as hunters only comprise a small segment of the population of Alberta and the province manages game in the interest of the majority not us.

I am sure this will garner some thoughts from the trophy hunters, armchair biologists, meat hunters, as well as the ethisists.

A little something for everybody.

This is a condensed version not the full article from the march-april 2000 edition of Bugle.


http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1517595

Skinnydipper
07-11-2010, 01:54 PM
Very good read. I like to read Val Giest's stuff. Tough for our bleeding heart society to swallow but environmentally responsible.:shark:

jaybull
07-11-2010, 02:36 PM
Interesting read for sure. I for one understand how people believe animals think and feel just like us humans. My wife thinks our dog " feels " sad, mad, happy ect..... And I'm sure to a small extent she " my dog " does. But not anything like humans do. I tryed to explain to my wife that wild animals like deer, elk ect... IMO do not have these complex emotions that us humans do. Her reply was something like this : " I'm sure a momma deer gets sad if her baby deer get killed by a car or wolf." I then tood her how lions will kill a females babys so she will come into heat again. By chance we watched it on discovery a couple nights later. I told her story's about the farm bison that i saw killed for meat. All his buddies walked over to his head on the ground and started licking it and rolling on it. Didn't seem like human nature to me.lol. Still animals are part of nature, and so are we. Nature can be cruel in some eyes and beautiful in other times. Respect for nature is a human thing. It's more for us in a way. But i feel it shows character to respect nature as it is my favorite place to be. Outdoors with nature. I choose for my own reasons to not hunt yotes, bear ect..... It doesn't mean i think others are bad for doing so, I just don't understand why. I understand the thrill of the hunt for sure!!!! But to kill, for nothing other than to kill, is not how nature works. Anyhow JMO and i hope none of the yote or bear hunters are offended by this. I'm sure they won't be anyway.lol. Like you said there is something in that artical for every one though. Hope i didn't go way of topic. Thanks for posting.

Skinnydipper
07-11-2010, 04:15 PM
But to kill, for nothing other than to kill, is not how nature works.

I suspect there are some examples where this is not the case, killer whales come to mind, sometimes observed killing for "sport".

MK2750
07-11-2010, 06:04 PM
The one term that has always bothered me and that is often used here is “respectable buck”. This basically means anything with antlers and perhaps a little bigger as the hunter matures. We are passing this on to the young hunters and there is nothing farther from respectable when it comes to deer management and buck to doe ratios.

How many pictures do we see of new and young hunters posing proudly with their first or second deer that is an immature buck? (I might add that I have made the same mistake as my son’s first two deer were both young four pointers, one having some real potential.)

We always comment on how this is an awesome “first” deer and sometimes add how it is better then our first. This of course adds fuel to the fire as the young hunter is now even more determined to get a bigger one next year. My son was disappointed in his deer last year as it was not as big as his first. Lost was the trill of the hunt, the perfect fall day and the time we had shared together.

Anyone who has spent some time in the bush during the fall (or even driving the highways counting road kill) must realize that the young bucks are practically defenseless against human hunters. With the smell of estrus in the air and run out of the protection of their home quarter, they wander the farmland oblivious to the dangers. They don’t know the woods around them nor do they have an adult to mentor them as with the young does. They are basically sitting ducks that is if they are not run over on the road. I don’t believe anything could be harder on the deer herds then harvesting these animals and certainly it makes no sense from a quality stand point.

No one is more guilty than I and I was reminded of this again last night as I reached for the salt shaker chewing on a piece of meat that was hardly fit for the dog. “It was a management buck” was my logic but in fact I never had much of a stomach for shooting somebody’s mother and even less for shooting the young ones. The worst part is I am passing this on to my son and the other young hunters I mentor.

I wasn’t raised this way as my Dad would shoot between two trophy bucks to get a dry doe or yearling. I remember holding out for a particular buck when I was 16 or so and finally harvesting him on the last weekend of the season. My Dad’s comments were “You got to take what you can get this time of the year.”

My son and I had several talks about this over the winter (usually while chewing on the so called harvest) and have made a pact to get out in the early season and put some decent meat in the freezer. I will definitely have him read this article and I appreciate the link.

ishootbambi
07-11-2010, 07:11 PM
the Bambi Must Die title has me feeling a little uneasy!!! :sign0176:

ksteed17
07-11-2010, 10:02 PM
very interesting read. Definitely changed my views of nature and how it works. I always knew the young were less likely to survive the winters but i never put the 2 together thinking that they would make the better choice in increasing trophy quality.

buckman
07-12-2010, 10:11 AM
It seems illogical to harvest healthy mature does and cows when they are the breeding stock.On an area I used to hunt most of the older does are gone and hunters are now shooting the yearlings.

Surely this makes no sense,shooting a fawn or calf of the year may seem abhorrent to some hunters ....but some of them have no problem taking the mother of a young animal.Most of us have seen the lost calf or fawn after its mother has been killed.How many of them have a chance to survive predation or starvation in the winter.

I hunt deer for my own reasons,the meat is secondary to the hunt and I enjoy eating it.I would not go hungry without venison so I am selective in the deer I kill.

Mostly I target mature animals its more challenging and keeps me in the field longer(its about the hunting not the killing)

So shoot the young ones if all you want is the meat and leave the breeding animals to do what they do best....survive and prduce more.

walking buffalo
07-12-2010, 10:14 AM
IR_mike

Thanks for the link and sparking the topic here.

A great read for hunters and everyone else with an interest in deer is HEARTSBLOOD
Hunting, Spirituality, and Wildness in America
Petersen draws on philosophy, evolutionary science, biology, and empirical studies to create an engaging and literate work that offers a unique look at hunting, hunters, anti-hunting, and, in the words of the author, "life’s basic truths."

http://www.davidpetersenbooks.com/

I'll proudly admit to shooting fawns, young does, and yearling bucks by choice. I'll take a yearling buck over a 120-150" every time if I decide to fill the tag. It's a sound decision based on age populaton dynamics if you desire mature bucks in your hunting area.

ishootbambi
07-12-2010, 05:04 PM
you guys all know that i hunt bone first and foremost....except for moose. moose antlers for some reason dont intrigue me like the others, but moose steaks sure do. i have taken 5 calves over the last 9 years....and will again this fall. they are delicious, and i dont have to wait long for a tag.