Charging black bear

[turnandburn]

Hello all, first off great site, love all the hunting stories. Can someone tell me if a black bear were to charge, is he going to act like a grizzly and stop short, will he keep coming? Now i know that grizzly's are known to stop short, sometimes, but just wondering about a blackie, normally he will be scared off but im sure not always. Thanks in advance.

Tyler

[chuck0039]

The cinnomen color black bear that charged at me on Thursday evening stop about 50 yards away. I had never had this happen before so i just stood there facing him ready to let an arrow fly if he had come any closer. a few seconds after he stopped i slowly backed away behind the combine in the field then got to my truck.

[308 man]

Only had one black bear charge and he stoped short about 20 yards
Just before he was would of been shot. Turned at a right angle and
disapered in the bush

[Young Eldon]

Both bear species will bluff charge. Some of these charges are very unnerving since they may not stop coming untill the last few feet. The trick is to watch for other behavior signals befor the charge. Bluffers will often swat the ground, huff, pop their gums, arch their back, erect their body hair, standup on hind legs to get a better look and scent, send cubs up a tree, etc. Their main goal is to chase you off by dominating and scaring you. Try to move away from them, if it get ahold of you - play dead, untill the mauling does not appear to be stopping in a several seconds (the threat may have turned into predation).

A predatory bear (either species) may try to make a meal of you. They tend to aproach more secretively, on all fours, try to get your wind, no noise, move steadily closer to you and then make a short fast rush to get ahold of you. Any bear entering a tent, vehicle or building should be considered predatory ( quite possibly conditioned to the close presence of people). Try to give these bears space, if that does not work, try to intimidate them. If it gets ahold of you - fight with all you got.

Remember to carry good bear spray and know how to use it. Lots of noise can also work. A couple weeks ago we chased 4 grizzlies (sow with 3 cubs)away from our horse camp in Banff Park with an air horn and some yelling. Keep getting more education about bears!
Good luck,

[Lethalconnection]

Had a black bear charge me once and he stopped about 15yds short then he turned ran about 10 yds, stopped looked at me again, then took off for good, then 10 mins later i shot an elk:lol:

[turnandburn]

Thanks for all the quick responses. I dodn't think i have it in me to let a bear charging within 20 yards, he'd get it between the eyes. Thanks again.

Tyler

[slipbobber]

Lots of people here that are alot braver than me. Don't think I would wait till they were 20 yards away before lead would be flying.

[101sonny]

Lots of people here that are alot braver than me. Don't think I would wait till they were 20 yards away before lead would be flying.
:lol: :lol: So True i see one charging me lead would be flying a little tuffer for the bow hunter .To close for me :scared:

[duke]

i'v never seen 2 bears act in the same manner. a charging bear means busness,, if i'm capable to stop this threat it will be done. . If you can fight off a bear go ahead wait for the bluff charge,.. i'm a chicken i shoot 1st before i can tell if its a bluff or not.

[TreeGuy]

OK. Here's some questions.

Can anyone give an accurate description of a 'justifiable' shooting? Easier to prove with snow, for sure, but what legal hoops will I have to jump through in order to prove to the authorities that killing the animal was my only option? How many get popped and left unreported in a year do you think? If the killing is ruled as justified, can I take possesion of the animal?

These questions are primarily focused on grizzly's, as they are the 'endangered' ones.:rolleye2: Thanks.

Tree

[rugatika]

I think I'm gonna just start buying a bear tag. Probably be easier than going thru all the gov't hoops of justifying saving your own ass.

OOPps. unless of course you're talking grizzly's (which you were) in that case tags are a might harder to come by I think.

[slipbobber]

When it comes time to decide if it would be justifable to shoot a charging bear there is no doubt in my mind when that would be. When a man and a bear come face to face I don't want to be the one thats dead. I'd rather be a alive coward than a dead hero.

[Bushmaster]

Read the book "Bear Attack" by Calgarian Stephen Herrera (sp ? )......it'll keep you awake nights in bear country !! But full of good insight into bears......and the basics are, if a black bear attacks you , you'd better fight to the end, cause he plans on eating you !! While a grizz just wants to beat the crap out of you and for you to leave him alone.

[Mintaka]

*

[Nationwide]

treeguy wroteCan anyone give an accurate description of a 'justifiable' shooting? I will 50 yrds way to close for me.:wave:

[Mintaka]

*

[turnandburn]

Treeguy's question about 'justifiable' shooting is a good one. Is there any F&W people on this board that can shead some light?

Tyler

[tyee43]

OK. Here's some questions.

Can anyone give an accurate description of a 'justifiable' shooting? Easier to prove with snow, for sure, but what legal hoops will I have to jump through in order to prove to the authorities that killing the animal was my only option? How many get popped and left unreported in a year do you think? If the killing is ruled as justified, can I take possesion of the animal?

These questions are primarily focused on grizzly's, as they are the 'endangered' ones.:rolleye2: Thanks.

Tree


Tree;

Each individual case is going to depend upon the particular circumstances.

Fish & Wildlife will go to the kill site and conduct a really thorough investigation, taking photographs and measurements. There is no real objective/subjective standard, it is going to come down to how realistic the risk was to you as described to the investigating officers, and how your version of the facts coincides with the physical evidence. For that matter, I think that the discretion of the particular officer is going to have a significant bearing, pardon the pun, on whether or not you will face a charge - if I was in this situation, I'd want an older guy with a lot of experience under his belt in dealing with bears, rather than a rookie, right out of school.

If a charge under the Wildlife Act is laid, the ultimate question is going to be whether or not there is a "reasonable doubt" raised by the evidence, the same as in any other criminal trial, in order to be acquitted and avoid a conviction.

In a nutshell, from the anecdotal stories I've heard, the bear had better be charging right at you, and within 10m or less...if, for example, a bear is charging, but it turns out that it is a bluff charge, and the physical evidence shows that the bear stopped, but was shot anyways, you're most likely going to be charged.

I know that this doesn't really help much - you have an angry bear charging towards you, it is going to be pretty difficult to hold off, even at thirty feet, but you have to be able to show that you were facing imminent harm...

It would be very interesting to hear from Fish & Wildlife on this issue.

That's my two cents based on everything I've heard...I've had both griz and blackies charge me, but thankfully, I've never had to make the decision as they were all bluff charges.

As for keeping the hide, if it is a grizzly, it won't happen, as the hide reverts to the Crown, but for a blackie, maybe they would allow you to keep it, but I am only speculating...


tyee43

[RandyBoBandy]

I'd be firing just before I have the urge to begin to soil my Victoria Secret Hunting thongs when a bear approaches:lol:

[Jamie]

Shoot..Shovel..&..SHUT UP!

You cant prove your feelings in a court of law..
Do what you think is right.
When I was charged by that Grizz up by the Chinchaga, I chose to flight over fight. Perhaps next time it will be different.
To many nightmares of to many years to want to relive that episode.

Jamie

[Mintaka]

*

[Young Eldon]

TYEE 43 gave a pretty good description of how a self defence claim will be handled in the field.
I have been in on a few of these procedings and reviewed some of the resulting trials. Using lethal force has often been tolerated and it is very apparent that big game hunters (guys with rifles in hand) do most of the so called self defence killing of grizzlies. Fishermen, hikers, berry pickers, woodsmen, etc. seem to manage to play and work with grizzlies without much killing??????? My conclusion is that we hunters could also deal with bears without so much use of lethal force!
I can think of several reasons why we shoot first:
It is the surest way to end our fear - the posts indicate that we will "chicken out" at varied distances from a bear.
We have the gun, so why try anything else.
We don't care what happens to the bear population.
We find it more matcho to tell all our listeners we can/did shoot our way out.
We save the time and effort of having to learn any more about bear behavior and other ways of avoiding being mauled.
We are too ignorant, lazy or cheap to take any more precautions to avoid potential conflicts with bears.
You can likely add some more.

Killing a bear in a genuine case of self defence seldom gets you into real trouble with F&W. The best ways to stay out of trouble are to reduce the chances of a conflict, be able to demonstrate to all people that you were diligent (took as many precautions and tried alternative means of avoiding the use of lethal force as could reasonably be expected under the circumstances) and reported the case to authorities promptly and honestly.

I was at one trial for a guy who shot three female grizzlies in a row. As I recall, he never fired a warning shot, never climbed a handy tree, the bears never attacked, he left the area and never reported it. He got off for killing the bears but the number of grizzly hunting permits for that area went to ZERO real quick because 3 dead females puts a real dent in the local grizzly population! A sad day for us grizzly hunters because the guy chose to shoot his way out of a scary situation. Perhaps he could have been more diligent?

[101sonny]

Shoot..Shovel..&..SHUT UP!

I dont know about the shovel part ???:huh: too much workBad Idea,
You will get caught and then have the book thrown at you.
I like to know how you figure that one Mintaka:huh: :huh:

If bear encounters are an issue to you, than don't hunt in bear country.so what is that 99% of alberta :huh: :lol: :lol: :lol: your too much Mintaka.

[TreeGuy]

Thank you tyee43, that is what I suspected. I've spent the majority of my time hunting in bear country and have never been charged, but still have had many encounters that were chilling in the least.

I have discharged warning shots at a grizz once that stormed to 40 yards (never could see him, and YES I knew it was a grizz because the week before my buddies ran into him in the same area). The shots detered him, and gave me a chance to change my drawers!:D

tyee43, your point about old vs. young CO are valid. There is no substitute for experience. That being said, guys, there is no substitute for RESPECT and PATIENCE with the CO's if you are in that situation. Whether you get charged or not is up to them. Hope it never happens to any of us!:wave:

Tree

[Jamie]

Well as I hear it....
IF you bang off a Grizz in what you think is a life and death sittuation, F/W just recomend charges and let the courts settle it out.
So either way your headed to court.

Shoot/Shovel/Shut up.


Does anyone here have any storys of guys that have taken out a Grizz in self defence? Especially here in Alberta over the last 10 years or so?
It would be interesting to hear what happened. Both the story and the repercusions.

Thanks
Jamie

[slipbobber]

For all you HERO types out there I have this to say. If you want to risk your life and make your family fatherless because you figure this bear is going to stop 10 yards away every time, go for it. I personal liked the guy who was going to shoot a charging bear with a arrow. Now thats funny.

[Jamie]

Slip.. I agree 100%

If I happen to ever again to have the misfortune to be charged by a GB.. I will gladly take any punishment the courts deem fit to hand out. My life and those close to me is to important to worry about a fine and not being able to hunt for awhile.
What the hell take a great Picture.. Blow it up and you have something to talk about while you spend the next 2-5 years waiting for your license. BTW.. F/W might want to take the Picture as well.. So make extra copies:wave:

Just my opinion is all, but no Damn stinking Grizz is doing that to me again.

Jamie

[Roadhunter]

I was stalked while Gold panning in Northern BC. I was almost dusk and my buddy & I sat down after supper just relaxing and reading a gold panning book. Heard a crack of a stick and looked up to see what the noise was. I saw a huge blackie across a small creek about 50 yds away looking at us and kind of smelling around. He looked quite interested in us. I grabbed the 30-30 (which I always carry while out in the bush) and fired a warning shot above him. He didn't even flinch! I lowered the gun and fired a couple of more shots closer to him. He the walked parallel to us and dissapeared into the bush down a hill. I thought we should go over and take a look just to make sure I didn't hit him( not that I was aiming straight for him) and didn't see any sign. We went back to our camp and sat down figuring that he was gone for good and I started reading again. 10 minutes later, I heard a snap right behind me! My heart was pounding and I was shaking. I reached for the 30-30 and brought the gun up without even thinking( although I knew that this was a predatory tactic) He was about 15 yards right behind me and was walking parallel to us again, without even thinking I raised the gun and fired. I found out later that I actually fired twice without even realizing it. By this time it was getting dark. We had to shimmy across a huge cedar that had fallen across the creek to see where the bear dropped. My buddy was shining the flashlight over my shoulder and we saw the bear in the grass. I fired once more to make sure he was dead and we went to look at him. Never took any measurements but he was big. COuldn't sleep the rest of the night and hightailed it out of there at daybreak. There was more grizzley **** than I care to mention and thought they might want to claim Blackie for their supper. Shoot/Shovel/Shut Up:scared:

[TreeGuy]

So where are we at with this boys? Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out? Maybe some of us should look at how the other 90% of the unarmed population conducts themselves in bear country, and possibly there is something to be learned.

Jamie, I agree with where you are coming from 100% in terms of being a father. Probably most of us would 'shoot first and ask questions later'. At this point in my life with two young children, I'd probably do the same thing.

Ethically/legally what is the right thing to do? How many grizz fall into the category of 'Shoot/Shovel/Shut-up'? Is that the best option? I'd say yes, but who knows.

Tree

[Mintaka]

*

[Nationwide]

Scared men in the bush with loaded guns, now Im getting scared. :huh: I guess you should stay home :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mintaka]

*

[Jamie]

Mantaka.. Its not a question of being scared. In fact I love the idea of chasing bears.. Any bears.. Doesn't matter to me. I find that I am more "Bear Aware" since that incident but it doesn't stop me or worry me to any degree.
But if you were approaching me with knives in your hands and I truly thought you were meaning harm, I would wack you as well.
Every situation would be different. There was a cabelas video posted up here a few months back. In that Video the hunters had a GB charge them from what looked to be about 100 yards. They waited till what looked to me like the last possible second before blowing her away. And still there was a discussion about what her true intentions were. Its not like the bear could stand up and say exactly what she planned to do. What we have to rely on is our own intuition. Using a example of what you posted up would be the guys who shot the Griz broadside at 40 yards. Perhaps that bear was just trying to get around them, perhaps that bear was looking for a better angle.. Who knows. The only thing we know for sure is that those hunters came out of it OK and with all limbs still attached.
Its a judgment call.
Some of us have better judgment than others. Take that Treadwell clown. He thought he had G bears all figured out. What he didn't realize is that they were just fattening him up for a juicier dinner. I would never look down upon someone who truly thought they were protecting them selfs from such a dangerous animal.
Our courts seem to take a different view, sooooo.. We are back to the best way to protect yourself from both the courts and the bear is...
S/S/S

As responsible Sportsmen we have to do what our gut tells us to.

Jamie

[gunslinger]

fellas if you guide or hunt long enough in grizzly country you will be charged and you will be run off your dead moose or caribou by grizz.
for you guys that say you woudlnt do much if he come by, your wrong you obviously havnet had to **** your pants yet. you will and trust use your own judgement in and when the situation occurs..happpended to me twice now and i dont care what the punishment is or what occurs, i will not take a chance with my hunter or myself ever for a bear that is filling his belly for winter and dont care and possibly dont evne know what he is hunting to KILL.
They hunt to kill not jsut to wound,,,remmber that.
in backcountry areas the sound of a gunshot is supper for a grizzly bear, they will come to a carcuss fellas, i always build a teepee over my kills to give me a idea the next day if a bear has been on it or not. could save your life cause they dont go far when they smell it.

just my 2 cents

[Huntnut]

i always build a teepee over my kills to give me a idea the next day if a bear has been on it or not. could save your life cause they dont go far when they smell it.

just my 2 cents


That's good advice Pat. If they have been feeding on it they won't be far away and won't take kindly to someone messing with it.

[Mintaka]

*

[tyee43]

As bear hunters, or hunters in bear country, I think that it is incumbent upon each one of us to be dligent, have "bear sense" and then be as ready as we can possibly be if you are unfortunate enough to be in the situation where a bear is charging you...sooner or later, if you spend enough time out there, it WILL happen...

There have been a lot of good comments and opinions expressed on the issue, and I agree, we should all be required to read Stephen Herraro's "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance", 2nd edition, to become more "bear aware"...

I've been lucky, and have never had to pull the trigger - I've come close, but thankfully, have not had to...

Jamie, I'd sure like to hear more about your encounter...sounds scary...

Stay safe out there this weekend everyone!

tyee43

[tyee43]

From Wednesday's Cochrane Times:

Hunter becomes the hunted

by Katie Schneider
Wednesday October 03, 2007

Cochrane EMS responded to the Waiparous wilderness area yesterday afternoon after a man was bitten by a bear.

Police said the man was bow hunting near highways 40 and 1A northwest of the town when the bruin charged him and bit down on his arm.

EMS spokesman Jory Jenson said paramedics assessed the man at the scene, but he drove himself to hospital in his own vehicle.

The victim is in stable condition with puncture wounds in the arm.

Does anybody know anything further about this?

tyee43

[Jamie]

Tyee, when I get back I will relate the story, I guess in hindsite it wasent all that bad, but man.. Did it scare the crap out of me.. I was scared for weeks, nightmares, cold sweats, shuddering out of the blue.

Jamie

[Mintaka]

*

[Stinky Coyote]

Tree, i suspect its much easier to justify a shooting if the bullet goes in the front end.;)

[stubblejumper]

I have been around a fair number of bears,both black and grizzly and have only been charged once.Luckily,when I was charged by the grizzly,I did have a valid grizzly tag,so I have a rug instead of having had to defend my actions in killing the grizzly.