Trout Tips and Tricks

[billie]

Anyone wish to share some secrets? Not locations, just what you've learned about trout , what you use when the fish aren't biting, habits of different species, water conditions that seem to produce more, that kind of thing.

I don't know much but am enjoying the learning. My target fishery is the middle Bow but I expect to fish anywhere and everywhere I end up, focus is on rivers. I've started having some success with an elk hair caddis in #12 hook on both the Bow and the Sheep.

[ericlin0122]

oh boy...
SJW + PT + CJ is the answer...

[Fordman150]

That goes double for me billie.. just starting out as well, looking forward to that first fish.. enjoying the learning process but it can seem to be overwhelming at times.. good luck out there..

[Tungsten,]

The pick you posted is a goddard caddis.
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1488/pdgoddardcaddis5aab355.jpg
This is an elk hair caddis
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6963/pdelkhaircaddisolive5ad.jpg
Both are excellent flies as they can be fished dry or wet.

[Doc]

You need to find the three basic needs of the trout. Food, Cover from predators and oxygen. Two great places for trout to hold where they can find this is in a choppy run right after a shallow riffle and a deep pool right after the choppy run. The riffle acts as an aerator forcing oxygenated water down into the chop and the pool as well as a grocery store, sending insects and aquatic life into this fish holding water as well. The chop (caused from larger boulders) acts as a cover to protect the trout from predators and so does the deep pool. In the chop, trout will hold both on seams where fast water meets slow water and behind the bigger boulders on the bottom. A heavily weighted rig with two nymphs about two to three feet apart combined with a strike indicator will get you down to the trout. I usually start with seven feet from the point fly to the indicator and if my indicator isn't going under at least once a drift, I'll adjust so that it does. Make sure you mend for a drag free drift and if you see any movement (sideways, pauses, goes under) of your indicator, set the hook. If there is nothing there, go into a cast back upstream. Good luck.

Cheers,
Doc

[TroutHunter]

1) Pick up a copy of "Fishing the forestry truck road" by Barry Mitchell , It's a great read with plenty of good info on central and southern Alberta trout streams.

2)Fish less pressured rivers and creeks to hone your skills. The Bow can be tough for even the most experienced fly anglers. Most days your presentation has to be perfect to get a bite. Most small creeks and rivers , like the tribs to the Red Deer , don't see a ton of anglers so they are much more forgiving for the novice caster. The sizes are smaller but you will catch fish.

3)Practice your presentation. "matching the hatch" isn't gonna help if your fly drags like it's got a merc outboard attached to it. Learn different casts and mending techniques.

Just my 2 cents
TH

[billie]

:) Thanks, I'll get the names sorted out some day.

I fished quite a bit on the east coast (rivers) when I grew up but mostly spin gearand bait. I kind of quit when I came west in '77 and focused on hunting ( I did fish a bit). My uncle would put a fly rod in my hands occassionally and working my line is going fairly well, but watching one of my buddies, I have a ways to go.

One thing that was paramount in the later summer months in those years was your shadow. Cast one and the fish headed for the hills. Early season, not so much. Same here?

I'm mostly dry fly fishing more to re-learn than anything although a SJW and a black leech worked OK yesterday. What are your clues as to when to go deep over surface, other than the obvious rises. Is a mud bottom on slower water a key to using bottom flies?

In general, this is why I started this thread. Like the knowledge that "a pee hole is a buck or bull and a female looks like the wrong end of a funnel" type of info for everyone.

Thanks for the info so far. Fishing is going to be one of my retirement habits (I don't have hobbies:)), and my wife is enjoying the Bow floats so far. Yesterday was a beautiful day. I don't mind learning the 'hard' way either and will go there as we go along.

[billie]

I had another question:
I read an article from BCoutdoors that commented about not so much "matching the hatch" but matching the NEXT hatch. The premise was that fish gourge on what's hatching and will look for something different when they next feed. Any comments on that thought?

[Tungsten,]

One thing about the Bow is.There's always 4 or 5 things available to the fish.I was out on the weekend and saw 3 different types of caddis,BWO and tricos.Boatman and backswimmers are active.Leaches minnows and worms are there for the fish also.What you have to figure out is which one is the one they want for that part of the river on that day.There's no doubt in my mind that the Bow is a female.She changes her mind on what she wants almost hourly.

[Kingfisher]

Since your focus is going to be on rivers then make sure you have some prince nymphs in various sizes ranging from 14 to 6. It is one fly that imitates several types of nymphs. Another would be the hare's ear nymph. Also in the same sizes.

I'd say one of the most important things to remember when fishing in any body of water no mater wether it's a river or a lake is you have to get your presentation to where the fish are. If there are rising fish in the river then use a dry. If you don't see them rising then drop it down to the bottom. Same goes for a lake. It's pretty simple and basic. But sometimes gets overlooked. Even by old farts like myself.

Doc has some really good points. Make sure you read his post over a few times so you really understand it. Maybe even print it off and take it with you to the river and read it while your looking at the river. It will help you to figure out where the fish are. Why they are there and at the very least it will give you an idea where to start fishing.

Rob

[duffy4]

1) Pick up a copy of "Fishing the forestry truck road" by Barry Mitchell , It's a great read with plenty of good info on central and southern Alberta trout streams.

2)Fish less pressured rivers and creeks to hone your skills. The Bow can be tough for even the most experienced fly anglers. Most days your presentation has to be perfect to get a bite. Most small creeks and rivers , like the tribs to the Red Deer , don't see a ton of anglers so they are much more forgiving for the novice caster. The sizes are smaller but you will catch fish.

3)Practice your presentation. "matching the hatch" isn't gonna help if your fly drags like it's got a merc outboard attached to it. Learn different casts and mending techniques.

Just my 2 cents
TH

Couldn't have said it better.

Also, do you get ALBERTA OUTDOORSMEN magazine? Fred Noddin has been dishing out "trout tips" there for some time and is worth listening to.

Fred knows a lot about trout fishing but needs to learn which way to sit in a canoe.:)



http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/duffy4/103_2648.jpg

[billie]

I did read Doc's message closely. Small rivers make finding those spots much easier and the Bow is one big river. I'm trying to use my old knowledge and the more I go, the more I see and recognize.

Had no luck with a prince last time out but haven't given up on them by any means. Another fellow on the Sheep suggested they work about everywhaere. The multitude of different foods is a very good point. Gives you reason to try different things and stay positive. How long do you stick out a certain fly (your patience level :)?) I try to give each effort at least a full half hour or more of dedication. I think my presentation is pretty good, dead drift dries and very slight motion into the bottom stuff.

I'm using flies from WS. Are there better places to pick up good stuff?

I sure appreciate the feedback.

[boot]

I usually start with seven feet from the point fly to the indicator and if my indicator isn't going under at least once a drift, I'll adjust so that it does.

Doc, thanks for your post. I found it extremely informative.

Could you help clarify the above quoted statement? During the drift, once the indicator goes down and you set the hook, do you then let the drift continue (or do you recast upstream)? Are you setting lightly so that your rig doesn't come too far off the bottom of the river or are you setting like your life depended on it?

What I find is if I put enough weight so that the indicator goes down almost every drift, it usually goes down in the exact same location. I always set the hook and of course, there's no fish. This brings my nymphs well off the bottom of the river and it almost seems pointless to continue drifting. Am I doing something wrong? Then, if I reduce the weight, I'm not even sure if I'm anywhere near the bottom, because the indicator never goes down. The Bow is such a frustrating river....!!

To put things in perspective, I get skunked more than 50% of the time when I hit the Bow (about 3 hours at a time)... but I'm determined to figure this river out! :)

[boot]

I'm using flies from WS. Are there better places to pick up good stuff?


If you don't mind purchasing online, you could try Icky Fly Works. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to retailers, but a quick search should do the trick for you. The flies are made from a local Calgary guy and he ships same day or next day.

[soggysocks]

Doc, thanks for your post. I found it extremely informative.

Could you help clarify the above quoted statement? During the drift, once the indicator goes down and you set the hook, do you then let the drift continue (or do you recast upstream)? Are you setting lightly so that your rig doesn't come too far off the bottom of the river or are you setting like your life depended on it?

What I find is if I put enough weight so that the indicator goes down almost every drift, it usually goes down in the exact same location. I always set the hook and of course, there's no fish. This brings my nymphs well off the bottom of the river and it almost seems pointless to continue drifting. Am I doing something wrong? Then, if I reduce the weight, I'm not even sure if I'm anywhere near the bottom, because the indicator never goes down. The Bow is such a frustrating river....!!

To put things in perspective, I get skunked more than 50% of the time when I hit the Bow (about 3 hours at a time)... but I'm determined to figure this river out! :)

You and me both...Myself have given up on the indicator all together for the bow... The depth is too dynamic to keep it where I want it and my line gets caught up in it as well.

I Been learning to use a sink tip line with SJW and just letting it drift while doing my best to keep a tight line but not interfering with the drift. I've seen an improvement with how many fish I catch with this method. But I am very new to the fly rod and have lots to learn.

[bigdaddy37]

If you don't mind purchasing online, you could try Icky Fly Works. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to retailers, but a quick search should do the trick for you. The flies are made from a local Calgary guy and he ships same day or next day.

X2.

[Doc]

Doc, thanks for your post. I found it extremely informative.

Could you help clarify the above quoted statement? During the drift, once the indicator goes down and you set the hook, do you then let the drift continue (or do you recast upstream)? Are you setting lightly so that your rig doesn't come too far off the bottom of the river or are you setting like your life depended on it?

What I find is if I put enough weight so that the indicator goes down almost every drift, it usually goes down in the exact same location. I always set the hook and of course, there's no fish. This brings my nymphs well off the bottom of the river and it almost seems pointless to continue drifting. Am I doing something wrong? Then, if I reduce the weight, I'm not even sure if I'm anywhere near the bottom, because the indicator never goes down. The Bow is such a frustrating river....!!

To put things in perspective, I get skunked more than 50% of the time when I hit the Bow (about 3 hours at a time)... but I'm determined to figure this river out! :)

The trick is to keep moving. You have to cycle through the run working your way down stream. You cast and mend, indicator goes under, set the hook. I call it a bow river set 'cause it's the only place I set a hook like I'm picking up for a cast (in your words "like your life depended on it"). Nothing there? make your hook set a cast back up stream. Take a good step down stream and continue (you'll soon be out of range from the spot that keeps grabbing your flies). Take a good step down stream with every cast until you're fishing well into the deep pool. Once at the end of the deep water, leave the river, walk the shore back up to the beginning of the run (where the riffle ends) and repeat. In a long run you can cycle 5 or more guys (not that you'd want to but we've done it). It's important to have enough weight on you rig to get your flies down quick. It's hard to pick up trout if your flies aren't getting down 'til the end of your drift. Also remember to mend (several times if need be) if there's any drag on your indicator. Hope this helps. Any more questions, let me know.

Cheers,
Doc

[MarkS]

OK, this is really interesting stuff. Another question from a struggling beginner:

It seems important to get the correct amount of weight on to get the flies as close to the bottom as possible. So you have your first fly tied onto your leader, possibly a second fly tied to the bend of the first fly, where do you put the weight? Is it just the weight of the flies themselves (probably not heavy enough I assume) or do you add split shot? Does the split shot go between the flies or do you tie another piece of line onto the second fly and add some split shot at the end of this final piece of line? Am I over-complicating this or missing something? What kind of spacing would you leave between flies and weights?

Appreciate all of the advise, keep it coming!!

[billie]

If you don't mind purchasing online, you could try Icky Fly Works. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to retailers, but a quick search should do the trick for you. The flies are made from a local Calgary guy and he ships same day or next day.

Thanks for Icky, looks good and local too!

I don't think posting links for someone to find a retailer is against the rules as long as you are not advertising yourself. Admin, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Doc, thanks for your post. I found it extremely informative.

.....but I'm determined to figure this river out! :)

Same here, and thanks to everyone you are true sportsmen to help us out.

OK, this is really interesting stuff. Another question from a struggling beginner:

It seems important to get the correct amount of weight on to get the flies as close to the bottom as possible. So you have your first fly tied onto your leader, possibly a second fly tied to the bend of the first fly, where do you put the weight? Is it just the weight of the flies themselves (probably not heavy enough I assume) or do you add split shot? Does the split shot go between the flies or do you tie another piece of line onto the second fly and add some split shot at the end of this final piece of line? Am I over-complicating this or missing something? What kind of spacing would you leave between flies and weights?

Appreciate all of the advise, keep it coming!!

X2

I've used weight in many ways but have always leaned to above the flies.

I'll try some of this stuff tomorrow, MacKinnon to Jansen's.

[Tungsten,]

As far as weight goes at this time of year with the flow below 100cm/s you don't need much.Every run is different but allot of fish will be holding in water 1-3 ft deep.So if your rig is 10' long one wire worm and a bead headed fly is all you'll need.You may even want to slide your indi down to shorten it.
Allot of rookie mistakes i see are when first starting out they walk into the run knee deep.I can guarantee you that they just spooked some nice fish.

If your not "ticking" bottom don't add weight right away.Theres other ways to get your rig down without adding weight here are some.
-cast upstream more,not out away from you.
-try to keep your fly line,indi and your flies in one line so they all float at the same speed.
-hold your rod high to keep as much of the fly line off the water to reduce drag.
-factory tapered leaders are meant for dry fly fishing, the first 4-5' is very heavy and will not sink that fast.Make you own leaders starting with much thinner line,
Hope this helps or makes sense.I'm no pro but i believe FFer's who have better casting or nymphing skills will almost always catch more fish regardless off what flies they use.

[Geezle]

Thanks for Icky, looks good and local too!

I don't think posting links for someone to find a retailer is against the rules as long as you are not advertising yourself. Admin, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Don't worry about the link to Icky...they're a forum sponsor, just look for their ad at the top of the page :)

[Doc]

As far as weight goes at this time of year with the flow below 100cm/s you don't need much.Every run is different but allot of fish will be holding in water 1-3 ft deep.So if your rig is 10' long one wire worm and a bead headed fly is all you'll need.You may even want to slide your indi down to shorten it.
Allot of rookie mistakes i see are when first starting out they walk into the run knee deep.I can guarantee you that they just spooked some nice fish.

If your not "ticking" bottom don't add weight right away.Theres other ways to get your rig down without adding weight here are some.
-cast upstream more,not out away from you.
-try to keep your fly line,indi and your flies in one line so they all float at the same speed.
-hold your rod high to keep as much of the fly line off the water to reduce drag.
-factory tapered leaders are meant for dry fly fishing, the first 4-5' is very heavy and will not sink that fast.Make you own leaders starting with much thinner line,
Hope this helps or makes sense.I'm no pro but i believe FFer's who have better casting or nymphing skills will almost always catch more fish regardless off what flies they use.

Tungston (Hi Mike, might have to drag Phil down for some more boatman action soon) is bang on. My Bow River leaders are simply 1&1/2ft of 15lb and the rest is 10lb trilene. Dropper is tied onto the hook bend of the point fly. Also easier to break free if you get hooked up good on bottom. Especially important is this...

Allot of rookie mistakes i see are when first starting out they walk into the run knee deep.I can guarantee you that they just spooked some nice fish.

Just 'cause it's skinny water, don't think there are no fish sitting there. Cast to that water before walking into the run.

As far as weight, we've usually relied on the weight of the copper wire san juan and the second fly. There are many ways to set up your nymphing rig but the simplest I've found is either tying the san juan on as the dropper with a bead head whatever as the point fly or you can tie the san juan on as the point fly and then your beadhead as the dropper. I like the later because a big juan will draw attention to your presentation and if the trout don't want it they may take the dropper. If you do need to add more weight though, you can add another 1&1/2 - 2ft of mono with split shot onto the hook bend of the dropper or you can add it between flies.

http://www.neshannock-tu.org/instruction/tackle/hinged/rig2sm.gif

I like 2-3ft in between the point fly and the dropper as far as space but I know others that only like 1&1/2-2ft. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Doc

[boot]

Thanks for all the info!

[Tungsten,]

(Hi Mike, might have to drag Phil down for some more boatman action soon)

Hi Doc,give me a shout if your down this way.

[MarkS]

Went down the Bow from Glenmore to the 22X in our boat this afternoon. Using your guidance, I caught a small Rainbow and a decent size whitefish, about 18". Things are looking up! Thanks for your advise guys.

Mark

[billie]

We hit the bow fror Mac to Jensen's on Sunday.

Well for any old "champ" fans, I was dealing with the 2 old 'oars'. Anyway, I didn't get a chance to fish the patterns suggested here that I wanted to and spent the day manning the oars for my buddy that, with a new baby, hasn't had any fishing yet this year. I've done a bunch of searching on AO and really want to try out some of the suggestions offered for the Bow.

We had a tough day. My wife actually out fished the fly rods with an 1/8th oz panther martin. My buddy did hook a small brown but all in all, not much action. From the feedback from the river, it wasn't great for most out there.

We had lots of rising fish but what we had on wasn't the ticket. Being on the oars I didn't get the chance to try some of the things I wanted to.

Just an update, we are NOT giving up:). Again, thanks to all for your help and support.

[Sheepriverrules]

if your fishing the sheep use a parachute ant

[fishing rox]

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[Fishfinder]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

Interesting first post. I reckon most forum users here realize if they wanna use the Quick Reply they know to click on it to activate. Thanx though:wave:
Cheers n GL!